S01.E12: AKA Take A Bloody Number

[Cranberry]

The hunt for Kilgrave reunites Jessica with Luke. Trish receives some unexpected information about Simpson and Jessica.

[numbnut]

This show continues to confound me. If Luke is unbreakable and can survive an explosion, why would he be stopped by a shotgun blast to the face?

[Cthulhudrew]

This show continues to confound me. If Luke is unbreakable and can survive an explosion, why would he be stopped by a shotgun blast to the face?

Probably caused some internal damage to his brain; concussion or worse. The shotgun burst might not penetrate, but that much force so close to his head and neck presumably is what hurt him. 

[tanita]

Can I just say that that running commentary that Kilgrave did during the Jessica/Luck fight was both hysterical funny and disturbing as hell. The guy just doesn't know when to quit. "Every move he made was mine. Those tender moments, those sweet things he shared was all me. Our sexual tension"  Dude, just stop. She is just not that into you.

 

IDK about the rest of you guys, but for me Kilgrave might have push Loki out as Marvel's No.1 villain or is neck and neck with him.

[readster]

Probably caused some internal damage to his brain; concussion or worse. The shotgun burst might not penetrate, but that much force so close to his head and neck presumably is what hurt him. 

Its been established since Luke Cage first showed up in comics in the 70s. Just because his skin is unbreakable doesn't mean he can't suffer from internal or regard conditions that will take a normal human out. Like: dehydration, constant blunt force trauma, drowning, ect. Considering the position and the force blast from the police shotgun. I had no problem when Jessica did that to Luke in the end that he went down.

[AzureOwl]

How long has it been in-universe? In the first episodes it was clearly winter, with frozen snow in the streets, but by this episode it's clearly summer.

[NorthstarATL]

How long has it been in-universe? In the first episodes it was clearly winter, with frozen snow in the streets, but by this episode it's clearly summer.

If the show took place in Atlanta, where we can have all four seasons in a day, It might be a day or two. Easier to judge by the number of outfit changes by Trish, as she is the only one wearing noticeably different clothes from scene to scene. (I assume she smells better than the rest of the characters, as well.)

 

 

IDK about the rest of you guys, but for me Kilgrave might have push Loki out as Marvel's No.1 villain or is neck and neck with him.

I'd love to see a tag at the end of a movie or maybe one of these series, with Loki and Kilgrave playing chess. Or Twister, with puppet people.

[xqueenfrostine]

I really should have guessed that Kilgrave had Luke under his control the whole time but I didn't, which made me a little sad because his line earlier in the episode about forgiving Jessica gave me so many feels!  I'm not a Jessica/Luke shipper at all, but the kindness and compassion of that moment was so intense.  And then it wasn't real!

 

Can I just say that that running commentary that Kilgrave did during the Jessica/Luck fight was both hysterical funny and disturbing as hell. The guy just doesn't know when to quit. "Every move he made was mine. Those tender moments, those sweet things he shared was all me. Our sexual tension"  Dude, just stop. She is just not that into you.

 

I was equally amused when Kilgrave asked Luke if Luke had somehow ruined Kilgrave's romantic chances with Jessica.  This dude just cannot extinguish his own torch.  I'm pretty sure that if his dad had managed to increase Kilgrave's powers enough to bring Jess back under his control, he'd happily drop his plans to kill her and go back to playing house with her instead.

[The Kings Foot]

This show continues to confound me. If Luke is unbreakable and can survive an explosion, why would he be stopped by a shotgun blast to the face?

 

 

Probably caused some internal damage to his brain; concussion or worse. The shotgun burst might not penetrate, but that much force so close to his head and neck presumably is what hurt him. 

 

 

Its been established since Luke Cage first showed up in comics in the 70s. Just because his skin is unbreakable doesn't mean he can't suffer from internal or regard conditions that will take a normal human out. Like: dehydration, constant blunt force trauma, drowning, ect. Considering the position and the force blast from the police shotgun. I had no problem when Jessica did that to Luke in the end that he went down.

 

 

Yup. Think of it like a bullet proof vest.  It'll stop the bullet from penetrating but the impact force can still break a rib. 

 

I was equally amused when Kilgrave asked Luke if Luke had somehow ruined Kilgrave's romantic chances with Jessica.  This dude just cannot extinguish his own torch.  I'm pretty sure that if his dad had managed to increase Kilgrave's powers enough to bring Jess back under his control, he'd happily drop his plans to kill her and go back to playing house with her instead.

 

 

Agreed . Kilgrave really is just a stalker.   This series you could have removed everyone's super powers and still had an actual thriller type show

Edited November 23, 2015 by The Kings Foot

[numbnut]

Yup. Think of it like a bullet proof vest.  It'll stop the bullet from penetrating but the impact force can still break a rib.

 

I can buy that analogy if it's consistently used. It's odd that a shotgun caused a concussion when the explosion caused nothing (e.g. broken bones).

[Tarasme]

...

 

IDK about the rest of you guys, but for me Kilgrave might have push Loki out as Marvel's No.1 villain or is neck and neck with him.

 

I understand this sentiment, but I don't rank him very high in villainy. Kilgrave's ability puts him among the scariest of the scary guys but he is SO self-seeking, SO immature, SO insecure, SO petulant, crap- if he gave just one thought to anything other than his own whims, he would be insulated, unstoppable, and in complete control of the world w/o further enhancement. He's a poster child for wasted potential. Between Loki and KG there are a lot of comparable traits- but Loki grew up.

 

Fisk- or someone with that kind of single minded drive- utilizing Kilgrave as a tool- *that* makes me catch my breath in horror.

[AimingforYoko]

I really should have guessed that Kilgrave had Luke under his control the whole time but I didn't, which made me a little sad because his line earlier in the episode about forgiving Jessica gave me so many feels!  I'm not a Jessica/Luke shipper at all, but the kindness and compassion of that moment was so intense.  And then it wasn't real!

 

 

I was equally amused when Kilgrave asked Luke if Luke had somehow ruined Kilgrave's romantic chances with Jessica.  This dude just cannot extinguish his own torch.  I'm pretty sure that if his dad had managed to increase Kilgrave's powers enough to bring Jess back under his control, he'd happily drop his plans to kill her and go back to playing house with her instead.

I would have died if Luke had answered Kilgrave's question of "You haven't buggered my chances with her, have you?" with "Literally."

[tanita]

I understand this sentiment, but I don't rank him very high in villainy. Kilgrave's ability puts him among the scariest of the scary guys but he is SO self-seeking, SO immature, SO insecure, SO petulant, crap- if he gave just one thought to anything other than his own whims, he would be insulated, unstoppable, and in complete control of the world w/o further enhancement. He's a poster child for wasted potential. Between Loki and KG there are a lot of comparable traits- but Loki grew up.

 

Fisk- or someone with that kind of single minded drive- utilizing Kilgrave as a tool- *that* makes me catch my breath in horror.

Yeah, but how would one utilize Kilgrave. The only way one can stop him is when he is knocked out by anesthesia, at which point he is unusable and has no value. When he is awake, no one save Jessica can resist his control, not even someone like Fisk. At this point in the canon (maybe latter, if Kilgrave ever appears again we will meet more people who can resist him and the reasons why) it's not about strength of will, but of developing immunity or being forced so far against who you are that his hold breaks (like forcing Jessica to kill an innocent woman).

 

And honestly, the fact he is so childish and petulant is what makes him so dangerous. He is very unpredictable, unless when it comes to Jessica. He doesn't want notoriety but anonymity, he doesn't need possessions, power, money, because he has the only real power there is - to enforce his will on others. His downfall was a personal one, it came down to one person. She was the only one to defeat him because against all reason he did a very human thing, he hoped that he had control over her again - the one thing he wanted more then anything.

 

And while he wasted his potential, he is also the type who would one day have tried to take over the world just to see if he can. He would probably succeed and then what.

 

While I agree that villains that have a goal are fantastic, this one is just horrifying and very effective because what he wants can change on a whim. That unpredictability is more frightening then anything to me.

 

Anyway, this kind of thing is subjective in the end.

Edited November 23, 2015 by tanita

[xqueenfrostine]

He's a poster child for wasted potential. Between Loki and KG there are a lot of comparable traits- but Loki grew up.

 

Eh, I don't see Loki as having grown up.  His Daddy issues just force him to be more ambitious in his efforts, but at their core, they're just as petty and childlike.  

[SeanC]

Heh, I knew that in a series where the main villain's power is mind control that they would have to have a full Jessica vs. Luke brawl at some point.

[ZootSuitWyatt]

Agreed . Kilgrave really is just a stalker.   This series you could have removed everyone's super powers and still had an actual thriller type show

 

Yeah, the superpowers/special abilities kick things up a notch, but the really unnerving thing about Kilgrave (and Simpson/Nuke, to some degree) is that the underlying entitlement, gaslighting, and abuse is NOT something foreign. The show raises a lot of questions like "what if that shitty ex you had also had mind control powers" and that is terrifying.

[MrWhyt]

I can buy that analogy if it's consistently used. It's odd that a shotgun caused a concussion when the explosion caused nothing (e.g. broken bones).

yeah the blast wave from the explosion should have given him some organ damage

[Dandesun]

The fight between Jessica and Luke was different from your typical 'heroes meet and fight' situation specifically because Luke is someone she cares about and doesn't want to hurt badly while he's out of control. And her shooting him at the end and the reaction afterwards...

 

Yeah, there may be a lot about Jessica that's unlikable but her caring about people isn't one of them. When she cares about a person, she cares all the way.

[penguinnj]

 

Heh, I knew that in a series where the main villain's power is mind control that they would have to have a full Jessica vs. Luke brawl at some point.

Also- if they go "there" with Jessica and Luke- I think he would have also needed to feel the extent of Kilgrave's powers if he is truly going to forgive Jessica for Reba's death.  They made such a big deal about the fact that Luke had trouble understanding thees kinds of powers- to make him a believer he was going to have to experience being controlled and doing horrible things under that control.

[VCRTracking]

Kilgrave you.......(Lily Aldrin voice) sonofabeech!

 

I admit I was fooled. I thought Luke forgave Jessica way too quickly. Sure he knew she wasn't responsible for Reva's death, but there was also the matter of her lying to him.

 

The Jess vs Luke fight was well staged.

 

Nice homage to The Dead Zone.

 

Robyn probably does seem OTT but the truth is there are people who are that nutty in the city. I was terrified for Malcolm though. I thought "Oh god please let him make it back home to his parents and don't have Kilgrave kill him."

 

Interesting about the IGH. With two episodes left we'd have to find out about Jessica's origin and where she got her powers.

Edited November 25, 2015 by VCRTracking

[Leia1979]

That venue or set or whatever it is for the club was just gorgeous! I saw it a few times before as one of the Netflix stills for the series and kept wondering what it was. Kilgrave's commentary during the fight was hysterical. And at the other end of the spectrum, I had to put my hand over my eyes for the blender scene.

[thuganomics85]

For some reason, I kind of suspicious of that scene when Luke was talking to his bartender on the phone, and I started wondering if he was covering up something.  So, him still being controlled by Kilgrave didn't take me fully by surprise, but the reveal was great.  And just hearing how much of it was planned, right down to Kilgrave giving Luke the exact words to use.  And he truly believe this means he and Jessica belong together.  Again, he's basically a creepy, obsessed stalker with powers, and I find that scary as hell.  What is equally scary is that, yes, I find stuff like his running commentary and lines hilarious, so he does have a charm to him, that I imagine he could use to his advantage, even if he didn't have these powers.  I really do think he's one of my favorite villains, not just in the Marvel universe or even comic book based series, but in general.

 

So, it sounds like this IGH (for a second, I thought it said IGN, and I was like "I know that website has its issues, but I'm not sure they are that evil!" for a second) group that Simpson was part of, is somehow connected to Jessica, and even helped pay for her expenses after the accident.  I wonder what this all means.  Considering we only have one episode left, I'm guessing some of this will go over, if a second season happens. And it looks like Trish will be the one involved in this, which I approve. Still don't trust her mother though.

 

I'm guessing Malcolm won't leave after-all, thanks to all those scenes with Robyn.  That's good, but I wonder if his relationship with Jessica will ever be the same again.

 

I'm guessing Luke will survive the shotgun blast with minimal brain damage, but I have to imagine this is also going to be an issue going forward.

 

Onto the finale!

[Helena Dax]

I'm guessing Luke will survive, considering he's got a TV show coming. I was a little suspicious when he was talking  on his phone, but he wasn't doing anything against her, so I didn't think about it twice. Anyway, I think this experience has  opened his  eyes and he'll be able to understand Jessica better.

 

Trish's mum is shit. 

 

I like Malcolm and Robyn together. 

 

My hate for Kilgrave keeps growing. Although Andy Tennant is giving him some charm, the writers have managed to keep Kilgrave  consistently creepy and disgusting. They don't want us to forget that he's  a complete monster,  not a naughty boy.

[Danny Franks]

I'm just not really feeling Jessica/Luke. Their chemistry is not as hot as Trish said it was, and Mike Colter isn't bringing much to the table apart from his chiselled torso. While the twist of having Kilgrave be the one behind his kind words and actions was wonderfully cruel and painful for Jessica, seeing her so broken up about fighting Luke just didn't really feel earned.

 

Other than his looks and his tragic past, and her connection through Reva, I guess I don't see what Jessica sees in him to make him so special. But it sounds like Reva's death was completely needless, because she wasn't even looking for the videos of Kilgrave, she was looking for something else. Presumably tests done on Luke. Kilgrave finds out, and reacts as he predictably would. Poor woman.

 

And Kilgrave, still labouring under the illusion that he could have Jessica. The little moment of anguish when Luke told him that he and Jessica "were lovers" was hilarious. Tennant knows how to convey emotions so well, even through the crazy mask of Kilgrave. And the framing of the shot, with him looking small and weedy and weaselly, next to the gigantic adonis that is Luke Cage, and what does Kilgrave say? "So you think you're better than me?" Heh.

 

But jesus, hand-almost-in-the-blender was too much for me. And shears-through-the-face was definitely too much. I covered my eyes. Just like I did when that criminal rammed his face through a railing spike in Daredevil.

 

Trish is still great. Her mother is a heinous bitch. I like that Trish didn't fall for it, and was strong enough to see what her mother was doing, even with the temptation of being able to get answers for Jessica dangled in front of her. That was another nice twist as well. Jessica and Simpson share the same 'parent'? Kozlov had a hand in making them both, which will be a very useful hook for season 2, if Kilgrave is killed.

 

I like Malcolm, so much. He's the sort of guy who could take that red pill and just become even better, like Steve Rogers and his supersoldier serum. He had his moment of weakness, he was going to run away and leave everyone to their own messes, but he just couldn't stop himself from helping Robyn. Who, by the way, does need some sort of medication. I don't like the character, but I do like it when she insults people creatively, and when she seems to think she's in some 70s 'gritty' crime drama, complete with daft dialogue.

 

I feel like Robyn's words were making Malcolm think of Jessica, and how people don't like her, and how she uses that to keep them at a distance. Hopefully he'll get the chance to help her again, because she does need it. She has two people in this world she cares about, and that's not enough for a healthy life. Part of her healing process has to be letting more people in, and who better than Malcolm, the guy who has experienced some of what she has, who was saved from drug addiction by her, and who is the most empathetic, genuinely kind person that Jessica has met in the course of this show?

[Bec]

I thought it was interesting that Trish is still so certain that Simpson was a good guy. After all that he put her through. And Jessica is just as certain that he wasn't. I guess it goes back to Jessica's self-intro early on as someone who excels at seeing the worst in people. Whereas Trish tends to see the good in people.

 

I'm with Trish on this one. Take away the pills and Simpson could be a productive member of society again.

[Danny Franks]

I thought it was interesting that Trish is still so certain that Simpson was a good guy. After all that he put her through. And Jessica is just as certain that he wasn't. I guess it goes back to Jessica's self-intro early on as someone who excels at seeing the worst in people. Whereas Trish tends to see the good in people.

 

I'm with Trish on this one. Take away the pills and Simpson could be a productive member of society again.

 

The pills just accentuate the personality that is already there, as far as I can tell. Simpson was always an overprotective, 'I'll handle this, little lady' sort of guy. The pills just amped that up to eleven. And Simpson embraced that. He was over-medicating, which is probably why he was so off the charts in his behaviour. If he was just taking the right amount of pills, he might still be a productive member of society who hadn't shot a cop in the head, killed two of his colleagues, locked Trish up and tried to kill Jessica.

 

But if I never have to hear him say "my boys" again, I'll be happy.

[Bec]

Haha, I'm sick of hearing "my boys", too. I saw a comic book page posted somewhere else where the Nuke character says that, so maybe this is one of the things this character is known for saying. I wouldn't know, I haven't read anything with him in it.

 

Yeah, even before the pills, he was a douchenozzle at times, but he also managed to reconsider what he was doing when Trish or Jessica called him on it, so I feel like there's hope for him yet.

 

Not that I'm saying he's not responsible for what he did on the pills. He is so responsible for it. I want to see a lot of remorse from him if the character goes the redemption route.

[Primetimer]

Maybe she could be better at the hero thing, but no one deserves the crap she gets in S01.E12.

Read the story

[supposebly]

As eulogies go, Robyn's wins the internet for a day: Good-bye Ruben. I hope they have express-delivery in heaven.

Of course, and Amazon.

 

Luke (or rather Kilgrave) tricked me. I like to think it's just the actor standing around like a block of wood. I really don't see any chemistry between them. But also, we didn't know how much interaction they had. I should have realized that there would have been quite a lot of interaction since Kilgrave called him her boyfriend. He didn't even know about him.

 

Trish, there is no reason to wait with the IGH info. This could mean that Jessica might have been experimented on too as well as little Kevin. That took me out of the episode. Little nitpick in an otherwise awesome show.

[Beatriceblake]

This was a good episode but spoiled a little by the fact Jess has now had several good opportunities to shoot Kilgrave in the head (mostly before this episode). She really needed to take Kilgrave out while he was still in "I want to be with you forever" mode.

 

Also you could see Kilgrave controlling Luke way, way down the line because Kilgrave needed muscle between him and Jessica and because it's another sick thing to do that will really hurt Jessica.

[Ms Blue Jay]

The scene where Trish basically says to Jessica, "Omg, he's so cute, and he TOTALLY likes you, are you gonna date him???????" while Jessica and Luke are clearly of conspiring to destroy an insane and violent villain.... I found it incredibly insulting to women.  This is a show I really like overall, but yeah, I didn't care for that.  I guess it was ripped from the comic or whatever?  I wouldn't know.

[LeGrandElephant]

I didn't call that Luke was being controlled, though I guess I should have. Is it plausible that Jessica wouldn't have noticed something off about him? How long did Kilgrave spend interrogating him about his relationship with Jessica and giving him specific instructions on how to behave, so that she didn't catch on? It seems a little inconsistent that sometimes people following his orders act like zombies and other times they are capable of complex deception. Does it have to do with how specific his instructions were, what exactly he told them to do, their personality, their willpower? I would think that if Luke is "special" he'd have the willpower to at least seem to be struggling with some of the instructions (I think he did during the fight, but not earlier as a tipoff).

Presumably he'll live and now he'll actually forgive Jessica now that he knows what it's like.

On a completely different subject, I am reminded of certain books: Ella Enchanted had similar rules about following orders to the letter and about pushing too far breaking the spell (though it never got as dark with the orders since it was for kids, and I didn't see the movie but the ads showed a completely different set of rules for how the curse worked in the movie than in the book), and The Beekeeper's Apprentice had a nearly identical family and car accident backstory for its woman detective (same ages of kids, same bickering with little brother, same dad turning around, same only the 14 year old girl surviving with massive guilt).

[Danny Franks]

The scene where Trish basically says to Jessica, "Omg, he's so cute, and he TOTALLY likes you, are you gonna date him???????" while Jessica and Luke are clearly of conspiring to destroy an insane and violent villain.... I found it incredibly insulting to women.  This is a show I really like overall, but yeah, I didn't care for that.  I guess it was ripped from the comic or whatever?  I wouldn't know.

 

I didn't really see the scene like that. To me, it was more a small moment where Jessica's best friend was trying to push her towards something more healthy and normal than the self-inflicted isolation and self-hatred that Jessica has lived in ever since getting away from Kilgrave. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

It doesn't explain the timing, which I thought couldn't be less appropriate.  I just don't agree.  It's exactly the kind of scene that expired the Bedchel test.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Is it plausible that Jessica wouldn't have noticed something off about him? How long did Kilgrave spend interrogating him about his relationship with Jessica and giving him specific instructions on how to behave, so that she didn't catch on? It seems a little inconsistent that sometimes people following his orders act like zombies and other times they are capable of complex deception. Does it have to do with how specific his instructions were, what exactly he told them to do, their personality, their willpower? I would think that if Luke is "special" he'd have the willpower to at least seem to be struggling with some of the instructions (I think he did during the fight, but not earlier as a tipoff).

 

Knowing Kilgrave and his obsession with Jessica, he probably spent quite a long time interrogating Luke about their relationship, and he spent quite some time giving him the parameters as to how to act with her. 

 

I would also think that people will have different reactions to Kilgrave. Being special didn't help Jessica, so I don't see why it would be likely to help Luke. 

 

It doesn't explain the timing, which I thought couldn't be less appropriate.  I just don't agree.  It's exactly the kind of scene that expired the Bedchel test.

Within the world of the show, Trish was first meeting Luke. And as she commented before, Jessica had never had guys stick around. I don't think there's anything wrong with her being happy that there was (as far as she knew) the first guy in Jessica's life to have potential to be more than a glorified booty call and making her opinion known.

 

If this was Jesse Jones and Patrick Walker squeeing about Lucy Cage, I don't think it would have been out of place or unbelievable or anything like that... 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Kilgrave revealed that he had been controlling Luke, I yelled, "NOOOOOOOO!"

On 11/28/2015 at 2:16 PM, Danny Franks said:

I'm just not really feeling Jessica/Luke. Their chemistry is not as hot as Trish said it was, and Mike Colter isn't bringing much to the table apart from his chiselled torso. While the twist of having Kilgrave be the one behind his kind words and actions was wonderfully cruel and painful for Jessica, seeing her so broken up about fighting Luke just didn't really feel earned.

And the framing of the shot, with him looking small and weedy and weaselly, next to the gigantic adonis that is Luke Cage, and what does Kilgrave say? "So you think you're better than me?" Heh.

Heh, it made me want to start chanting "Mandelbaum! Mandelbaum!" I felt like Jessica's reaction to fighting Luke was less about her having feelings for him and more about having to fight someone who was being forced to do so because of Kilgrave's mind control. Luke being told to kill her was like when she was told to kill Reva, so she understands the position that he is in and therefore didn't want to hurt him to get him to stop.

On 11/28/2015 at 11:17 PM, Danny Franks said:

But if I never have to hear him say "my boys" again, I'll be happy.

Ugh, I knew a girl who used to refer to her brother, her boyfriend, and a male friend as "my boys" and it was so annoying, which is why I wanted to punch Simpson every single time he referred to those guys as "my boys." I feel a little bit better knowing that I wasn't the only one who hated it!

[johntfs]

On 11/23/2015 at 3:26 PM, tanita said:

Yeah, but how would one utilize Kilgrave.

You'd have to interact with him while wearing an NBC suit for starters.  Maybe knock him out to surgically implant a bomb in him.  In the 1987 graphic novel, Emperor Doom, Doctor Doom kidnaps the Purple Man (Kilgrave) and uses him to establish control over most of the world (excepting certain superhero individuals that are somehow immune to Kilgrave's powers).

As far as the idea of Kilgrave having the drive and vision of villains like Kingpin and Loki, two points.  First he already has the kind of absolute personal power that they crave and want to approximate.  Second, they have a bit more humanity than he has.  They want fear and respect from people.  Kilgrave doesn't.  For him wanting the respect of other people would be like us wanting respect from our car or screwdriver.  Other people are just tools to him.  Tools to give him food, comfort, occasionally pleasure, but otherwise utterly disposable utensils.

Edited December 31, 2017 by johntfs