S02.E07: 207

[Tara Ariano]

Alison's mother raises concerns about Noah and Alison's new lifestyle; Alison confronts Noah about his revealing new book over Thanksgiving dinner; Cole lashes out at Luisa and is further alienated from his family in the wake of startling revelations.

[bunnywithanaxe]

Oh, we're gonna have a Conner family style Drama- giving? Whoopee! Pass the taters!

[Primetimer]

The newly assembled Noah/Alison household and the Lockhart clan compete to see who can have the most awkward Thanksgiving. The winner? You, dear viewer.

Read the story

[VioletMarx]

So, Noah is just a full out cartoon villain now?

[stefinny]

So was that Scotty in the video arguing with Alison?  And if it was, I don't believe he was referring to it as his own baby - I think he meant that it is a Lockhart baby.

[jrlr]

Well, I didn't see that one coming!  I'd been wondering if I'd even get all the way through this season, but that pulled me back in.

[HumblePi]

Their Thanksgiving dinners made even our worst ones look like this......

 

So was that Scotty in the video arguing with Alison?  And if it was, I don't believe he was referring to it as his own baby - I think he meant that it is a Lockhart baby.

I think he meant that it's his baby and the cute sister in law with the black hair. 

[Pallas]

"That's our baby."  

 

Scotty -- who also assumed that Alison's house was "ours"  -- believed Cole was the father of Alison's daughter, and that the child broke the Lockhart curse.

[nilyank]

Did Allison say that she was due in April? Because she looks HUGE and ready to give birth now. 

 

Noah setting up a "temporary" office in what will be the baby's nursery is the biggest passive-aggressive move he made this season. Yeah that baby is really important to him.

 

Did Cole lie about his money clip being stolen in order to start that fight with Luisa? Because I wouldn't put it pass Scotty for sneaky into his home to steal $150 from his brother.

 

Whitney was stalkery but hopefully Cole got through her. Because Scotty is not into you in any way Whitney.

[HumblePi]

I found it a little unbelievable that Cole could drive from having dinner with his family in Montauk, all the way to Manhattan to drop off Whitney then make it in time for dinner with the Colombian girlfriend in Queens. He would need a helicopter to make it.

[Ellaria]

So was that Scotty in the video arguing with Alison?  And if it was, I don't believe he was referring to it as his own baby - I think he meant that it is a Lockhart baby.

That's an excellent observation and I think that you are correct. It would be much too soapy for Alison to have slept with Scotty.

Lots to consider in this episode. Noah is continuing on his journey to be the biggest, self absorbed asshole on TV. Alison sold the house. Mama Lockheart is nuts. I enjoyed this episode but it seems to be a different show than the one I watched last season.

[VioletMarx]

"That's our baby."

Scotty -- who also assumed that Alison's house was "ours" -- believed Cole was the father of Alison's daughter, and that the child broke the Lockhart curse.

That's exactly how I took it.

[stefinny]

"That's our baby."  

 

Scotty -- who also assumed that Alison's house was "ours"  -- believed Cole was the father of Alison's daughter, and that the child broke the Lockhart curse.

 

Exactly!

[truthaboutluv]

So the baby is Cole's or at least Scotty seemed to think so. The ending was a complete red herring. My guess is Oscar didn't actually hear what was said or he misheard or misunderstood. Scotty may have been saying "our baby", as in the baby is a Lockhart. I was pretty much on that path when in Alison's version there was some talk about a baby not being someone's (can't remember the exact wording) and especially in Cole's when his mother talked about them being cursed and all of them losing their children (though the fact that the woman could add Scotty's knocking up underage Witney in that is just mind boggling).

 

I also realized in the end, when Cole brought Witney to Noah, that it was possible he didn't even know Alison was pregnant. It would make sense because Alison likely ran off to the commune after they slept together and then got back with Noah, while Cole started dating Luisa. And they probably didn't have much contact, even though like Noah and Helen, they're still technically married. And once again, it would make his look in the courtroom make so much more sense. Guess he finally did the math but seems like Scotty did it way before he did. And knowing the sleaze that Scotty was, I'm sure he was going to try and blackmail Alison.

 

That said, if that is indeed what happened, I can't say I feel too sorry for Alison because like WTAF woman, to deny Cole his kid, after the man lost a child along with you. Again WTAF...I don't know that Alison could come back from that with me. Woman would be dead to me. And worse, that I feel like she would have done all this not because she was protecting the kid or felt like Cole would not be a good father to the baby or any of that stuff but simply to keep Noah.

 

Because that's all I got from Alison's part this episode. She only sold her grandmother's house to give Noah the kind of life Helen did with her family's money which in her mind, would make him happy. She still has no job and no purpose other than just standing around, all the while she admits she's all but insulted in his book and made to look awful and is dismissed to the point of Helen and the children being referenced in the book jacket instead of her. Wow, just wow.

 

And I almost felt like the writers read some of the comments here, with everything Alison brought up about Noah's portrayal of her in the book. I swear I mentioned every single one of those things - that he made it seem like she threw herself at him, that she practically begged him to come to the hospital for her grandmother like it was almost a come on and less for comfort, her seeming like some cold drug pusher. Seriously, I was screaming at the screen going, "that's what I've been saying." And very interesting that Noah was sure Alison had sex with Cole on the car for his benefit (because it's always about you isn't it Noah) while Alison remembers that moment to be about her being in pain and just needing to feel something. Again, please remind me why I'm supposed to like or root for these people?

 

I was happy Cole went to apologize and make up with Luisa in the end because he was a huge asshole to her and frankly she should have made him grovel some more. But I liked his scenes with his family even though between that mother and Scotty, just wow. I hope Cole tells these people to go screw themselves and never goes back to dealing with them. Just awful people. Although I guess the other two brothers are sort of as clueless as Cole was. And I thought he handled Witney really well. I'm not sure he got through to her about giving up on Scotty but she at least stopped being a screaming shrew for a second and seemed to actually listen and hear what he was saying. I cracked up at Cole's expression when he said, "no" when Noah asked him if he wanted to come in for a drink.

 

Still going with Witney as Scotty's killer but really who cares because again good riddance. Dude was pure scum. 

Edited November 16, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[taragel]

That was really a lot. Lol. Interestingly I thought for the first time ever on the show, Cole's behavior in the first half of his perspective was exactly what they describe in interviews but I've never seen on the show before. He was the totally closed-off, brutish guy we were supposed to perceive him as. Then when he saw Whitney was having her own distress, he totally changed back into the Cole we've been seeing and then thank goodness he mostly redeemed himself with that apology and scene with Luisa. They didn't really have such a great beginning to their relationship, eh? I hope he can move forward from this point with no further dwelling on/dealing with Alison ... but... man it's kind of heartbreaking that that really could be/is their baby and Alison withholds that from him. That's so unspeakably sad. Will Season 3 be a custody battle? Hmm.

 

As for Alison's POV, man, what a miserable existence. I think maybe for the first time I genuinely felt bad for her. Noah couldn't even look convincingly happy listening to his kid's heartbeat. Eden was a total nightmare. Max was also throwing some digs left and right and things were majorly and slightly strained respectively with Athena and Jane because of the obvious class issues/money tension.

 

It was so gratifying though to hear the characters finally break the fourth wall in a way and actually voice the differences between people's memories/perspectives in both halves of the narrative. I'd love to see more of that happening. 

 

I was also glad to see Mare Winningham back. I would like to see more of Mama Lockhart.  The Oscar-Scotty-Cole scene in the grocery store was also great. So many actual bombshells dropped and forward momentum on the plot. This was a really good episode.

[Lemons]

So was that Scotty in the video arguing with Alison?  And if it was, I don't believe he was referring to it as his own baby - I think he meant that it is a Lockhart baby.

 

I didn't think of that but it makes sense.  He's always after Cole to help out "our family." 

 

It seems like everyone is miserable on this show.  Noah was as unlikable as ever. 

[right]

Obviously, the last scene has to throw much more suspicion on Allison as Scotty's killer.  It did make me remember the scene between Allison and Jane on the fancy couch shortly after Jane arrived for Thanksgiving.  Jane was making a big deal of Allison's baby tummy and then asked her the last time she was in Montauk and Allison said something like it was around a year.  Well, we as the audience knows that's not true because she was there to sleep with Cole.  However, the last scene with Allison and Scotty in the Lobster Roll surveillance camera footage proves she was there after finding out she was pregnant but before she was showing.  The question I have is how did Scotty find out she was pregnant if she didn't have the tell tale stomach? 

 

This show is getting more and more "soapy" with every episode. 

Edited November 17, 2015 by right

[918lux]

Obviously, the last scene has to throw much more suspicion on Allison as Scotty's killer. It did make me remember the scene between Allison and Jane on the fancy couch shortly after Jane arrived for Thanksgiving. Jane was making a big deal of Allison's baby tummy and then asked her the last time she was in Montauk and Allison said something like it was around a year. Well, we as the audience knows that's not true because she was there to sleep with Cole. However, the last scene with Allison and Scotty in the Lobster Roll surveillance camera footage proves she was there after finding out she was pregnant but before she was showing. The question I have is how did Scotty find out she was pregnant if she didn't have the tell tale stomach?

This show is getting more and more "soapy" with every episode.

I think the video was from the night of scotty's death, not when Alison was pregnant.

[Quiche]

Wonderful episode!  It kept me pinned to my chair.

"That's our baby."  Signifies to me that the baby is Cole's.  If it was Scotty's, he would've said, "that's my baby".  I don't think Allison would have killed Scotty over this.

Indeed, throughout her segment it looked like she didn't even like Noah.  I think she stays with him because she has nothing else.  I saw no evidence of great love between them.

If Noah's book is so successful, then why couldn't he pay for this attorney?  I think Allison is paying for that apartment.

The best segment was of course Cole's.  It was so interesting seeing the family history told.  I definitely think he is wasted on Louisa.

I believe now that Whitney killed Scotty.  Why else do they keep that part of the story going?  Like I said above, I don't believe Allison would kill for Noah. 

Max sure recovered from his brief fling with Helen.

I will miss the beach house.

[Glade]

It's really insulting that Cherry apparently views Whitney's abortion in the same category as her five year old grandson drowning, and also the same as her other daughter in law's  miscarriage.  Keeping secrets about things that have already happened and which other people outside the family know about really doesn't protect your kids.  It's not a surprise that Cole was carrying around more baggage then we were told about, but that is devastating about his father.  Thankfully I don't think he'll be attending the lockheart thanksgiving next year.   

 

I'm sure Scotty didn't run a dna test, so he's probably just assuming that the baby is Cole's.  But it looked like he was actually pointing to Alison's pregnant belly in the video?  Is the wedding really that soon? 

 

I don't think Alison picked the right memories from the book to pull apart.  Regardless of whether Noah followed her, she and Cole were having sex in their driveway, in full view of anyone who was walking down the road.  And she did see Noah there, in a scene very reminiscent of when they had sex in their host's pool and he stumbled upon them.  And it is true that after they got back together, Noah tried to publish the book with an ending where they stayed together.  If his publisher hadn't pushed back, that's what would have gotten through, visions or not. 

 

Alison's mother came off a little bit better then usual, if what she said was true about asking her parents to give the house to Alison and not herself.  But Alison was also correct, I don't think either she or Noah are interesting in freeloading off of anyone else.  Noah kept his job as a schoolteacher while married to Helen, and now I'm sure his huge advance and the profits from the book are paying for at least half.   If the stresses of Noah's career and his other family are getting in the way of their relationship now, I don't see how that's ever going to change. 

Edited November 16, 2015 by Glade

[Quiche]

Noah did live in the house paid for by Helen's money.  I think it comes naturally to him to mooch off of women.

[chocolatine]

It was funny that the annoying Eden character mentioned Jonathan Franzen to Noah, because in Franzen's first novel, The Corrections, there's also an annoying character named Eden.

 

Noah and Alison's swank new place looked so cold and sterile, especially for a Thanksgiving dinner. I had to turn up the heat in my own living room, because those scenes were literally making me feel cold. Since the show made a point of Athena questioning multiple times whether Noah could afford the place, that probably means he can't.

 

The revelations about "the Lockhart curse" and Daddy Lockhart hanging himself on Cole's 10th birthday - yikes! No wonder that family is so messed up.

 

I thought the scene of Scotty and Alison fighting was supposed to have taken place at Cole's wedding, i.e. shortly before Scotty was killed. It was shown as a juxtaposition to the statement Alison gave to John Gottlief that she and Scotty had barely talked that day but that they had generally been on good terms. I already suspected last week that Helen had hired Gottlief not just to get Noah acquitted but also to cast suspicion on Alison in the process. Last week I thought it was far-fetched, but it seems more likely now. 

[RedheadZombie]

Noah did live in the house paid for by Helen's money.  I think it comes naturally to him to mooch off of women.

They were married. If a man has greater wealth than his wife, is she also a moocher?

[ScoobieDoobs]

Man, I hate Eden.  Ah, but here in NYC there are a gazillion PR chicks on-the-make exactly like her.  Ew, ick, yuck & feh.  They're all alike & exactly like her.  Blech.  So is Noah banging her yet?  She looked awfully cozy with him.  Dickhead.

 

Idk what it is, but I think in a sea of terrific actors on this show, Colin Donnell is an exceptionally awful actor.  Maybe it's just me, but I find his line readings consistently flat & unconvincing.  Back to acting school, Colin, or get to a decent acting coach quick.

 

Honestly, I never thought much of Joshua Jackson & his continuing Pacey-like angst shtick.  But he's really impressing me this season.  Producers were right to give him a POV.  I wouldn't be surprised if he's nominated for an Emmy.  He deserves to be.  His scenes with Scotty show Colin for what he is to me -- a really shitty actor.

 

C'mon with that apartment.  I know New York real estate very well and Noah selling one successful book & Allison selling her cottage-by-the-sea in Montauk (which she has to split in some way with Cole) ain't gonna get that place.  No.  Freakin'.  Way.  Pretty incredible place, but they went a bit overboard with this, cuz I didn't believe it.

Edited November 16, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[ScoobieDoobs]

OK, so have the writers decided to do a total turn-around for Athena -- or is it my imagination?  I thought she was a total ditz last season.  And pretty much anything/everything she said was white noise & babble not worth listening to.  And yet here she is this season, sharp as a tack, with 100% on-target observations.  What up, show?

 

I'll have to watch this again to see if I recognize where this apartment is from the window views.  Anyone know -- is it in Manhattan or Brooklyn?  It would of course make a humongous difference in terms of cost.  Idk, whether to rent or buy, I still have a hard time believing Alison & Noah could afford an immense place like this in a luxury building.  I just saw something on the places of Andy Cohen, Cameron Diaz & Seth Myers -- all of which looked like tiny dumps compared to this sumptuous place.  I mean, I love real estate porn as much as the next guy or gal, but like I said above, c'mon, show.

Edited November 16, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[RococoChanel]

These days unfortunately many parts of Brooklyn are just as expensive as Manhattan (you can thank hipsters and gentrification for that. Feh).

 

Can anyone explain this house business to me? There is the Lockhart house, and then there is the Cole/Allison house which was her grandparents'? 

 

Did anyone else catch Allison's very English pronunciation of "Thanksgiving"? Sometimes Allison and Noah slip into their regular English accents and it takes me out of the scene.

[Bebecat]

Ok I am confused on so many levels, not least because I watched ep 7 before 6, by mistake. But, when did they switch from the 2-bedroom in Crown Point to this penthouse? And how? I would have liked to see some apartment hunting and how this place was determined to be "the one" for them and Noah's kids. It is so un-familyish.

I am not stupid, but am getting a bit lost in all of the time frames and flash backs. Scotty is dead, right? Lol. When did that Thanksgiving scene take place in relation to his death? Or maybe I am srupid, but everytime I see him I am lost. I really hate Cole's family. I hope he does not bail them put financially. I hate the way Scotty says it like Cole is obligated to support that entire crew. Cole is not exactly stable in his right, though better with Luisa. Did he find his money clip?? Lol

Alison is only four months along at that cocktail party? She looked twice that.

Noah's agent or PR woman is horrible. I would have thrown her phone out if the penthouse window, was wishing Alisn's mom had done that.

Noah wants the baby about as much as I want one. Which is not at all. How can Alison not know that? Does she think she really needs Noah so much to close her eyes to his shortcomings? I don't get that. She seems to be strong and see things clearly in this part of the show, yet she seems to believe she and Noah are solid. Except of course when she doesn't. She could take her baby and go back to yogaland. Why she would see her house is beyond me. Did Noah convince her and if so, did we see that happen?

Glad I did watch ep 6 after watching ep 7 first in error, but still feel kind of lost.

[myname2use4now]

Joshua Jackson is really bringing it this season. I hope he gets an award. Cole and Helen are my two favs at this point.

 

I like the lawyer. It's as though he shares in my contempt for the other characters. Oscar is becoming comic relief. I love his interactions with the lawyer. Something to laugh at.

 

My guess is they are renting that apartment. It's freaking huge.

 

The courtroom look from Cole now has an explanation. I'm pretty sure the baby is his, breaking the Lockheart curse after one final sacrifice in the form of Scotty.

 

I have come to hate the song in the opening credits.

 

Noah is a dick.

[Guest]

If Noah is considered a literary genius based on the hysterically awful prose of his that's read aloud on this show, Nicholas Sparks is overdue, like, a hundred Pulitzers. I haven't rolled my eyes this hard at a fictional author since Joe the serial killer from The Following.

Dominc West's face is HUGE. Every time there's a close up of it, I cringe.

[Bebecat]

I hate the theme song too lol...I always skip'past it now when I watch an episode.

Also, Noah is not even physically attractive, Imo, except very occasionally.

[MamaMax]

In his toast, Max welcomed Noah back to Manhattan from Brooklyn, didn't he? I believe that building must be in Manhattan, it's a high rise, new construcion. Not sure there would be anything like that in Brooklym.

 

However, Alison's Montauk house, depending on how much land there was, would be worth millions, which she owns outright, no mortgage.  And if Noah got a multi-million advance, I can see them buying that apartment. But he better follow up with another best seller or else those monthly payments are gonna get heavy.

[GeminiDancer]

 

In his toast, Max welcomed Noah back to Manhattan from Brooklyn, didn't he? I believe that building must be in Manhattan, it's a high rise, new construcion. Not sure there would be anything like that in Brooklym.

 

I totally missed that toast, but trust. Those buildings are appearing in Brooklyn.

 

 

When did that Thanksgiving scene take place in relation to his death?

 

Thanksgiving is at least eight months to a year before Scotty's death.

 

I know we've all commented on how un-sexy the sex scenes are on this show, but I have to say Cole/Luisa was pretty darn hot. I think it's because Joshua Jackson plays vulnerability so well with Cole. I'm glad he's finding happiness with Luisa. 

 

I no longer feel sympathy for Alison (not that I really did this season). She complains about not having an identity beyond being Noah's "muse", but she makes no effort to craft her own sense of being when Noah's around. I've no doubt in my mind she's beginning to suspect something nefarious between him and Eden. He cheated with you. What makes you think he won't cheat on you, eventually?

[taragel]

None of the money stuff makes much sense which is kind of ridiculous. They should easily be getting that stuff right. Noah's $400,000 advance would have been minus 15% to his agent, and then 25% of that would need to be put aside for taxes. So that leaves about 250K in two payments about a year apart (Upon signing and upon publication). By the time the second part of the payment was made--he would've probably blown through much of the first half on just everyday living expenses since he doesn't have a day job. Even adding in Max's 50K loan (although maybe he gave Noah even more after that--Alison hinted as much), I don't see where the money's coming from to afford that new place, especially since Alison clearly hasn't sold her house yet--Cole is still living there! Maybe Noah and Allison are renting instead of buying it, not sure if that was clarified, but even still, doesn't seem affordable at all. That was a huge-ass 4-bedroom place with a view. Manhattan or Brooklyn, it would still be way way out of their price range.

 

I forgot to say before but my heart hurt for Whitney when she said she wasn't important enough to be in her dad's novel. And for Cole, when he told us about his dad killing himself. Sigh. I would love to see a Whitney POV someday...heh, I bet that'd be hilarious and fantastic. Whitney and Oscar for the two halves! 

 

I've seen Colin O'Donnell on Broadway in Violet and he was quite good there. A heck of a tap dancer and very charming (as the role called for). 

[Boundary]

He cheated with you. What makes you think he won't cheat on you, eventually?

 

Didn't she cheat first, if sleeping with ex hubby counts? It goes both ways. Eden is annoying, even Max was ticked off, no need for any nefariousness in order to hate that one. But Noah's fidelity has to become an issue, especially if he becomes notorious in the media. I understood his hesitancy regarding the baby, they never resolved that question before she announced that she was pregnant. But the concern has to be that stardom gets into his head, erasing any desire to start another family. He's now hanging out with these people that Alison can't identify with, and they view her as nothing but a scandalous "muse". Noah's lack of success was an issue in his first marriage, it'll be interesting to see how his success is an issue in his second.

 

"That's our baby."  

 

Scotty -- who also assumed that Alison's house was "ours"  -- believed Cole was the father of Alison's daughter, and that the child broke the Lockhart curse.

 

 

I'd take that explanation over that she slept with Scotty any day. At first I thought likely he was blackmailing her but then I re-watched and saw that the video takes place at Lockhart's Lobster Roll, meaning Cole already bought the place. So what was Scotty's angle? The Lockhart curse? In any case I think this week strengthens my 'Alison is guilty' thesis. Does Helen know about the kid being a Lockhart? Does Noah?

 

I'm probably the only one but I love the Whitney character. She's a hell-raiser, either screaming or shouting at someone 90% of the time. But the remaining time she reveals a surprising side: last week by being nice after her brother gave them all a scare, and this week revealing some of the hurt driving her, surprisingly to Cole. Which was a good call cause in one little sentence Cole probably healed the rift between father and daughter, that's why she chose his place for Thanksgiving. 

[GeminiDancer]

 

Didn't she cheat first, if sleeping with ex hubby counts? It goes both ways.

You know, she totally did cheat on Noah with Cole.

 

 

I understood his hesitancy regarding the baby, they never resolved that question before she announced that she was pregnant. But the concern has to be that stardom gets into his head, erasing any desire to start another family.

 

This now poses the question of whether or not Noah ever wanted to be a parent. I suspect that he never wanted kids at all, much less five with two different women.

[HumblePi]

In his toast, Max welcomed Noah back to Manhattan from Brooklyn, didn't he? I believe that building must be in Manhattan, it's a high rise, new construcion. Not sure there would be anything like that in Brooklym.

 

However, Alison's Montauk house, depending on how much land there was, would be worth millions, which she owns outright, no mortgage.  And if Noah got a multi-million advance, I can see them buying that apartment. But he better follow up with another best seller or else those monthly payments are gonna get heavy.

They were all in Manhattan at the reception for Noah's book in the beginning because they were watching the large balloons from the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade out the window. Their apartment definitely looked like Manhattan also and if so, it would probably cost $12 million to purchase. I think we all believe that Noah lied about hearing the baby's heartbeat the same way he lied about wanting this baby. He definitely used Alison for the inspiration of his best selling novel. Now that he has it, will he still need her and a new baby?

[truthaboutluv]

Noah couldn't even look convincingly happy listening to his kid's heartbeat.

 

 

I may be wrong but I actually think he didn't hear anything and felt uncomfortable and embarrassed to admit it so he just gave some bullshit response that he couldn't even fake very well. But it's entirely possible he heard it and instead of being moved it was just a reminder of what he likely sees as a crazy situation. Dude already has four kids but has to start over again as a father and he's having a baby with a woman who is not legally divorced from her husband yet while he's not legally divorced from his wife yet. Just a charming situation all around. 

 

"That's our baby."  Signifies to me that the baby is Cole's.  If it was Scotty's, he would've said, "that's my baby".

 

 

I forgot to add in my original comment that this could all be a red herring and at the end of the day the kid really is Noah's. But the fact is there was a legitimate question of paternity which I'm pretty sure Alison never let Noah or Cole know about and doubt she actually ever did a paternity test. But when it's all said and done, I can see the writers making the child Noah's after all. However the damage would already be done with regards to Alison's lies by omission. 

 

I believe now that Whitney killed Scotty.  Why else do they keep that part of the story going?  Like I said above, I don't believe Allison would kill for Noah.

 

 

Agreed. It's why I can't see it being Noah, Alison or Cole. It'd be difficult to bring the characters back from that unless they make it so the police never figure it out and that might make the show a little too HTGAWM. They're already treading around soap opera waters with the WTD plotline. Witney is a minor, she's not a major character, so they can just write her getting some juvie sentence or even probation if they can prove it really was an accident and she panicked and then just be done with it.

 

It's really insulting that Cherry apparently views Whitney's abortion in the same category as her five year old grandson drowning, and also the same as her other daughter in law's  miscarriage.

 

 

Seriously...no words. A baby borne from her almost 30 year old's son inappropriate relationship with a minor. And she does realize said abortion was pushed by him as well since he damn sure didn't want any child with Witney. Like I honestly could not wrap my head around her actually saying that. 

 

Is the wedding really that soon?

 

If Alison already had the baby, would it really be that soon? What we saw last night was her looking four or five months along. So you factor another three months before she gives birth and the baby maybe being a few months old and it's least six months or so later that she and Noah attend Cole and Luisa's wedding. Because in present time the baby's almost a year already or a little over a year. 

 

Regardless of whether Noah followed her, she and Cole were having sex in their driveway, in full view of anyone who was walking down the road.

 

The point she was making is that Noah unfairly portrayed her in the book as this desperate, constantly throwing herself at him when he very much came after her and she used his following her home that time as one example. And whether or not she and Cole willingly were having sex in their own driveway, the point is Noah stayed to watch the entire scene which many people wouldn't. But then as he pointed out, of course he felt sure that it was intended for him because what isn't about Noah in his mind. 

 

I already suspected last week that Helen had hired Gottlief not just to get Noah acquitted but also to cast suspicion on Alison in the process. Last week I thought it was far-fetched, but it seems more likely now.

 

I don't see that only because I'm not sure how Helen would know about this confrontation with Alison and Scotty at the wedding, that she was lying about. I still think Helen's purpose is because Witney is the one who really killed Scotty so she's protecting her and trying to save Noah who is also protecting Witney. I have to say, I am very amused at the fact that the lawyer always looks like he doesn't believe a single word coming out of  Noah and Alison's mouth. It may just be his look but I think he's always been convinced they're not telling the full truth about that night which obviously, they're not. 

 

OK, so have the writers decided to do a total turn-around for Athena -- or is it my imagination?  I thought she was a total ditz last season.  And pretty much anything/everything she said was white noise & babble not worth listening to.  And yet here she is this season, sharp as a tack, with 100% on-target observations.  What up, show?

 

Actually I felt she was very observant about other people last season as well. She just lacked any self-awareness about her own selfishness and her own shit but she was very quick to point out issues and flaws in others. And I just remember that she really hated the Lockharts. 

 

Can anyone explain this house business to me? There is the Lockhart house, and then there is the Cole/Allison house which was her grandparents'?

 

The Lockharts had a massive ranch with a lot of land that should have been worth a lot. Unfortunately, they couldn't keep up payments and basically lost it to the bank, a fact Cherry never told her kids until they were foreclosed on. Cole and Alison lived in a house on the beach that belonged to her grandmother who passed away last season. The grandmother put it in  Alison's name in her will so it belonged to her. Scotty had been pushing Cole to get her to sell it forever because with the location, it was likely worth a lot.

 

This episode we find out she did sell it and is likely how she and Noah can afford the very, very fancy New York apartment they're currently living in. She also likely gave Cole some of the profits which is how he purchased the Lobster Roll. I was confused about where Cole was staying in this episode but I remembered that I think it's a house that belongs to a friend of his and Alison's who travels around the world and only pops back in and out. She showed up in the season finale if I remember correctly. 

 

If Noah is considered a literary genius based on the hysterically awful prose of his that's read aloud on this show, Nicholas Sparks is overdue, like, a hundred Pulitzers.

 

Is he though? The show established that his first book bombed and no one really cared much about it and it seems like Descent becomes a hit because of the sensationalism of it - married guy goes to small town and has affair with woman who "was sex" according to him, not to mention the bits of these sex scenes Alison read and then there's small town corruption going on with drug dealing and in the end the man murders the mistress.

 

Seems like the classic summer beach read that would sell a lot. And hell we live in a world where 50 Shades of Grey is a best seller. By the way, speaking of the man murdering the mistress in the book, anyone crack up when at the end of Alison's rant at the dinner table she goes, "and then you killed me." It's just the way it was delivered. 

Edited November 16, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[Empress1]

I'll have to watch this again to see if I recognize where this apartment is from the window views.  Anyone know -- is it in Manhattan or Brooklyn?  It would of course make a humongous difference in terms of cost.

It actually probably wouldn’t - not with a luxury building like that. There are parts of Brooklyn that are more expensive than Manhattan. One side of my family has lived in Brooklyn for a century (some rent, some own) and gentrification is ALWAYS a topic of conversation for them. One of my relatives was just talking about how someone just rolled up to her front door (she owns two brownstones split into apartments, lives in one and rents the others) and offered her cash for her place, which isn’t for sale (and he was seriously lowballing her anyway - she was like "First, it's not for sale, and second, don't insult my intelligence").

This now poses the question of whether or not Noah ever wanted to be a parent. I suspect that he never wanted kids at all, much less five with two different women.

That's interesting. What makes you say that? (Serious question, no snark.) I definitely don't think he wants Alison's baby (and honestly, I can't blame him - he's 46, which is not old in the grand scheme of things but IS old to be starting over with a newborn) but I don't get the impression that he didn't want kids at all. I could kind of see him just rolling with the punches the way many people do where kids are concerned - it's assumed that you are going to have them, that's How It's Done - but I don't get the sense that he actively dislikes his kids (even the ones that deserve it).

 

I agree re: Athena - I've always seen her as perceptive and observant but not self-aware. She picked up on Alison and Noah's affair immediately, and she had some astute things to say about the Lockharts last season.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Empress1

[jrlr]

I hate the theme song.  I hate Noah and his prose - from what we've heard - is atrocious.  Eden is a cliche and yes, Noah probably is sleeping with her (if they can detach the phones from both their ears for long enough).  And Alison is simply too much of a cypher: she's  blissfully happy at yoga camp and then boom!  she's got this ridiculous, polar-opposite apartment and lifestyle she's living.  Who the hell is she?  At this point in time, after one and one-half seasons, I'm finally getting more irritated than interested in her character because there doesn't really seem to be any there there. 

 

Have I mentioned that I hate Noah?  His look when Alison asked if he really wants this baby screamed "no" while he said "of course."  And when he reluctantly pretended to be interested in listening to the baby's heartbeat - you'd have to be a total moron to believe he's happy to be tied to Alison and a daddy-to-be.  

 

Wasn't impressed by the writing at all in this episode.  The whole Noah-forgets-the-turkey incident was predictable from the first time the turkey was mentioned.  And the gossip columnist, seriously?  This was written as if we're living in the 1940s and Hedda Hopper is on the loose.  I seriously doubt that ANYONE in 2015 would care that he's still married and she's pregnant.  And Athena's switch from new age babble to wise sage about life in general and Alison in particular is jarring.  

[jrlr]

You know, she totally did cheat on Noah with Cole.

 

 

This now poses the question of whether or not Noah ever wanted to be a parent. I suspect that he never wanted kids at all, much less five with two different women.

He wanted kids because at some point when he and Helen were battling it out she said something like she would have been perfectly happy to stop at two kids, but that Noah wanted more to make up for his own "wasteland of a childhood."  

[MamaMax]

I took some creative writing in college and still fool sround with it from time to time, but I have often thought I could never publish (not only because I may not be good enough) because I actually care about what my friend and family may feel about the things I would have to say. I think alot of writers do pull from their real lives and then just kind of riff off that, but I remember worrying, will my mom know that I'm writing about her but not realize that it's not REALLY 100% about her?
So it's interesting to see Noah, using the people in his life as fodder and then trying to weasel out of that. If he really cared more about them, he wouldn't publish it to begin with. I think he's pretending to care about his family. I think he's pretty much a narcissist. Do we think all published writers are egomaniacs to a degree?

Edited November 16, 2015 by MamaMax

[HumblePi]

I took some creative writing in college and still fool sround with it from time to time, but I have often thought I could never publish (not only because I may not be good enough) because I actually care about what my friend and family may feel about the things I would have to say. I think alot of writers do pull from their real lives and then just kind of riff off that, but I remember worrying, will my mom know that I'm writing about her but not realize that it's not REALLY 100% about her?

So it's interesting to see Noah, using the people in his life as fodder and then trying to weasel out of that. If he really cared more about them, he wouldn't publish it to begin with. I think he's pretending to care about his family. I think he's pretty much a narcissist. Do we think all published writers egomaniacs to a degree?

I think that for the most part any artist is narcissistic to some degree. Writers, dancers, actors and musicians, they all have a need to be appreciated for the one thing that most people aren't capable of doing.

[Blakeston]

I, too, can't stand looking at Noah anymore. It's like the makers of the show are trying to make the character look as unattractive as possible, to match his personality.

C'mon with that apartment. I know New York real estate very well and Noah selling one successful book & Allison selling her cottage-by-the-sea in Montauk (which she has to split in some way with Cole) ain't gonna get that place.

In real life, Alison wouldn't have to split the house money with Cole. The house in Montauk would be considered Alison's property, not joint property. She's the one who inherited it, so even if she received it during the marriage, it would be hers.

That said, Scotty seems to think that Cole is entitled to half the house, and the writers may be under the impression that he's right.

(And there's still no way in hell they could afford that apartment.)

Edited November 16, 2015 by Blakeston

[Former Nun]

I, too, can't stand looking at Noah anymore. It's like the makers of the show are trying to make the character look as unattractive as possible, to match his personality.

 

 

I wasn't familiar with this actor when the series started and I didn't like his "look" then...even when he was semi-charming.  For some reason I don't like either the actor or the character...same with Ruth Wilson/Alison.   I do think they're excellent actors and look forward to seeing them in something else--to change my mind.    I checked IMDB and learned that I HAVE seen them in other productions...just didn't remember.

[HumblePi]

I found it a little funny that Cole and Whitney got to the apartment door of Noah and Alison's multi-million dollar, ultra secure high rise easier than he got into the Queens apartment belonging to Lucia. There was a security camera at the door and she needed to buzz him in to unlock the door. I guess the doorman at Noah's apartment was home with his family eating turkey.

I wasn't familiar with this actor when the series started and I didn't like his "look" then...even when he was semi-charming.  For some reason I don't like either the actor or the character...same with Ruth Wilson/Alison.   I do think they're excellent actors and look forward to seeing them in something else--to change my mind.    I checked IMDB and learned that I HAVE seen them in other productions...just didn't remember.

And they're both British actors and hide their accents well.

[GeminiDancer]

 

That's interesting. What makes you say that? 

It's a feeling more than anything. It's very clear that he's not interested in being a father again though trying to keep up pretenses, but Martin health drama aside, he's just so exasperated and annoyed at their existence that maybe he'd be better off if they didn't. 

[Artsda]

In Alison's part she told the doorman to let anyone else up because they were having guests. So that's how Cole and Whitney came right up.

 

Considering how disinterested Noah seems in the pregnancy, I'm so glad the baby is really Cole's.

 

So based on Whitney's "you pulled a gun on me." Talk, I'm kind of leaning towards Alison's version of the story which was Cole pulling the gun on Noah because of what they did and not Noah's version. I think that scene shows Alison's version was the truth and Noah's version was not. 

[HumblePi]

I didn't like Athena last season and this season I really like her a lot. That delicate yet hippie quality of hers with her energy channeling reiki has made her appear to be living on another planet but this season she's wise and totally open and honest without being nasty. "how much did this cost?" was the first question out of her mouth upon entering the lavish apartment. And the idea of buying a turkey already stuffed and baked was just astonishing to her. (that bird goes for between $75 and $100 btw)

 

I can see Alison and Athena mending a lot of past misconceptions about each other and eventually getting into a very comfortable place with each other. I think that Athena could actually settle down somewhere, maybe Montauk and be a real grandmother to Alison and Cole's baby. Okay so I made up my own happy ending, sue me.  lol

[Boundary]

 I think he's pretty much a narcissist. Do we think all published writers are egomaniacs to a degree?

 

I think that'd be a really strong interpretation. I think artists should be given freedom to express themselves. But it can be hard on family and friends, I remember an interview where Matt LeBlanc said he had to call his ex wife to convince her a scene from Episodes wasn't about her. So Whitney's absence in the book affects her much in the same way it does Cole or Alison. It's up to them and Noah to live with it but I think restricting artists would be a step too far. The public also needs to be convinced that Descent isn't a memoir, which was precisely Alison's point but people like Eden and the gossip columnist are pulling in the opposite direction.

 

I found it a little funny that Cole and Whitney got to the apartment door of Noah and Alison's multi-million dollar, ultra secure high rise easier than he got into the Queens apartment belonging to Lucia. There was a security camera at the door and she needed to buzz him in to unlock the door. I guess the doorman at Noah's apartment was home with his family eating turkey.

 

I think the doorman was told to let further guests through. And, besides, I think he knew Whitney or if he didn't he sure does now after obviously getting an earful.

[VioletMarx]

Seems like the classic summer beach read that would sell a lot. And hell we live in a world where 50 Shades of Grey is a best seller

 

 

Jonathan Franzen wouldn't be spending two hours on Thanksgiving night with the author of a summer beach read.  That and comments made at the party made it clear to me that this book is supposed to be a literary success.