B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[kitmerlot1213]

I have to tell you, the actor playing Liam always came off as a low rent Chris Pratt, but his horrified reaction to finding the Hope mannequin was everything--the actor delivered and Thomas' slight wince at being caught was equally soapy--well done show 🙂

Edited November 6, 2020 by kitmerlot1213

[Angeleyes]

I have questions for Show about Hopequinn that have not been addressed so far. How many of these Hopequinns exist? Did they really have this displayed in only one boutique or was this part of a larger campaign? Shouldn’t Liam have been aware that it/they existed? Was it like the wax figures at Madame Tussaud’s where Hope had to sit for exact measurements, etc? 

[nkotb]

If Liam is this freaked-out about the Hopequinn, just wait until her eyes turn red, & she starts talking. Although, that'll be nothing compared to the fact that she prefers Thomas. Mwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

[geauxaway]

So, I threw the episode on quick before football started last night and my 12 year old son was in the room with me (he was on his Nintendo switch so not really paying attention).  But that final scene?  Dead.  My boy says “why is he pissed?  Is that doll evil or something?”  I said no, it’s his wife.  “He’s married to a doll?  Is that why he’s pissed?”  No, son.  That other guy has a doll of this guy’s wife.  You know what never mind.  
 

That whole scene was so bonkers (well the whole story is), but I cannot wait to see how it pans out today.  Happy Friday!!! 🤣🤣🤣

[nkotb]

I know Thomas has gone off-the-deep-end, but I do appreciate that he seems to be the only one who acknowledges that Liam is Ridge, Jr., & that it sucked for him to grow up like that. 

I for sure thought Thomas was going to hit Liam from behind. I can't believe he lived to walk out of that apartment. Although, Hopequinn wants him dead, maybe Hopequinn is turning more Quinn, less Hope. 

[CountryGirl]

Thomas using Liam's liam-ness (aka waffling) to defend and deflect. And he even threw shade at the original King of the Waffles - his own daddy.

Well played, Tommy Two-Screws. Well played.

Also, I am dead at this: "Don't touch her!"

MA and SC deserve Emmys for getting through these scenes. 

Time to queue up the brain tumor...

And damn, Hopequinn "told" Thomas to kill Liam. 

 

Elsewhere, we've got updated credits, including this little cutie and palate cleanser.

Although again, I'm enjoying the hell out of this storyline, Hopequinn and all, and whoduthinkit?

[Crashcourse]

Now you've got me missing Prince. 😭

Even though Liam has been a waffler, I did love how he clapped back at Thomas, didn't back down from him and called him crazy.  Which he most certainly is. 

Liam's not one of my favorite characters (actually, right now I don't have any except for the kids), but I hope they don't kill him off and Thomas survives.

 

[TobinAlbers]

2 hours ago, nkotb said:

I know Thomas has gone off-the-deep-end, but I do appreciate that he seems to be the only one who acknowledges that Liam is Ridge, Jr., & that it sucked for him to grow up like that. 

I for sure thought Thomas was going to hit Liam from behind. I can't believe he lived to walk out of that apartment. Although, Hopequinn wants him dead, maybe Hopequinn is turning more Quinn, less Hope. 

I've been calling out Thomas' projecting his Ridge anger onto Liam so I'm glad Liam called him on it as well. 

Thomas, you give your sister no credit. She's moved on. She's with Finn. You seem to be trying to undermine her even as you are so angry at Liam for 'stringing her along' but if you've been paying attention she's all about Finn these days.

Also Thomas is a hypocrite. He says he hates Liam stringing both women along but he's pushing Liam to Steffy so he can have Hope. Maybe he now realizes that and realizes that murdering Liam won't make him a hypocrite anymore.

Hope sucks. She was moaning to Liam about letting Steffy go but has the balls to hide from her husband that she's hiring Thomas on her design team and thinks he'll have no problem with it. Even nuZende was looking at her like WTF?

Calling it now - this story will have it be Thomas has a brain injury, he tries to kill Liam but in the drama they'll realize he has an injury/brain injury with him garnering sympathy and ultimately redemption via a brain tumor removal/brain surgery fix.  Hope will be drawn to the 'repaired' Thomas (maybe have an affair), eventually end up with him and in the afterglow of him beating Liam we'll hear Hopequinn's voice saying 'Now you have me' to Thomas who smiles and we'll see something like Thomas holding Hope while also hallucinating Hopequinn in the reflection of a mirror and realize that Thomas's brain injury was not the issue -he truly lost it but allowed the brain injury to be blamed and then played EVERYONE to ultimately get what he wanted -Hope and Douglas back.

You know what, let Hope have Thomas and Steffy have Finn. Liam can be alone or start fresh in a relationship with Eva or Katie or Donna.

 

[norcalgal]

4 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

Thomas using Liam's liam-ness (aka waffling) to defend and deflect. And he even threw shade at the original King of the Waffles - his own daddy.

Well played, Tommy Two-Screws. Well played.

Also, I am dead at this: "Don't touch her!"

MA and SC deserve Emmys for getting through these scenes. 

Time to queue up the brain tumor...

And damn, Hopequinn "told" Thomas to kill Liam. 

 

Elsewhere, we've got updated credits, including this little cutie and palate cleanser.

Although again, I'm enjoying the hell out of this storyline, Hopequinn and all, and whoduthinkit?

He certainly is a cutie-pie.  Although I gotta side-eye the gender stereotyping when it comes to toys. Trucks?!  (sigh)

And if he misses his mommy, he can pop on over to Days of Our Lives.  😁

 

[Crashcourse]

1 hour ago, TobinAlbers said:

Even nuZende was looking at her like WTF?

Yeah, the look on his face had me cracking up.  So far I like him; he's cool and calm and looks like he reads people well.  I just hope he doesn't end up with Zoey. 

1 hour ago, TobinAlbers said:

You know what, let Hope have Thomas and Steffy have Finn. Liam can be alone or start fresh in a relationship with Eva or Katie or Donna.

And I'm down with that.  Hope and Thomas deserve each other.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Did Steffy just throw on her wig without even bothering to comb it? She looked like a wild woman to me. 😉

Hope, you are so clueless it's almost sad. I can't wait to see your face crack into a million tiny pieces when you learn what your pal Tom has been up to. Pray that it'll be before he kills your husband.

Lol, Hopequinn staring at Thomas like, "Are you gonna let this jerk talk to you like that?" And then Thomas proceeded to unload on Liam with a verbal gatling gun. But no lies detected, actually. 🤔

Before he stormed out, I'm amazed Liam didn't whip out his phone and send a photo of Hopequinn right over to Hope, Steffy, Ridge, Eric, Charlie, and the greater LA metropolitan area.

Aw, did Thomas fall down and go boom again?

Stay off dark, lonely roads, Liam. The life you save may be your own.

[Waldo13]

Why does Lurch have to work with Hope. He works for CF and his interactions with Hope could be very limited. 

Lurch tried to pull the wool over Liam’s eyes but It comes up fishnet. Liam has you dead to rights but you insist that he’s at fault. Lurch is unhinged but we will find out that’s because of a brain tumor and everybody will feel sorry for him. Poor poor Lurch. 

 

[CharlizeCat]

Did Thomas trip over something or did he have a dizzy spell? Yes, those scenes with MA and SC were comedy gold! 

[RuntheTable]

I don't know who wrote those scenes, but holy hell, when you compare it to the Bridge drivel we have been getting? Scott and Matthew were simply on fire yesterday! The expressions, the timing, the inflections; all of it was entertaining, and a bit jaw dropping. I also appreciated the wonky camera angles and wavering, weird music. And Liam was just hammering all the points:

"Some kind of blowup doll"

"Don't touch "her"?

"Did you have this custom made"?

"Why is this here?" 

"Not people; just you"

And Thomas's rejoinders!

"Obviously, it's a mannequin Liam"

"Your disgusting; get your mind out of the gutter"

Thomas and Liam have a growing chemistry; I love how they take the gloves off, and let the verbal punches fly. And they are both right, although I don't agree with Thomas on why Liam is a waffle, but he is one none the less. 

And what was so damn funny was near the end of their conversation, Liam was pointing to Hopequinn and telling Thomas to tell it to her, and to stay away from her. I wanted so badly for Hopequinn's head to swivel and her eyes to turn red. 

Thomas fell and hit his head....very upsetting....very upsetting. MA has completely won me over and I wanted to kiss his boo boo. Besides that, I have a big squick factor about head injuries. Mr. R suffered three major head traumas in his working life, so I have a soft spot for that kind of thing. And of course when Thomas stood up from his fall, and that wonderful, thick, wavy hair was all awry........

I am so confused with the workings of Forrester Creations. Do they make couture any longer, or is it just HFTF now? I mean, it seems all the designers want to be on that team. When was the last time I saw Ridge sketching? I think it was probably a few months before his Vegas wedding. No, because he was busy fucking his wife over with Shauna. Does Eric even design anymore? I don't see how any lines could have been put out in the last year and a half, maybe even longer. Maybe the new COO could step in and redirect the course of the ship. Well, that is when he is done romancing one of the company's models. 

Hope annoys the fuck out of me. She really does. Waving her royal wand and deeming Thomas fit for HFTF once again. What evidence does Hope have that Thomas has turned any corners? Because he says so? Because he hasn't done anything for a few weeks? Because, God help all of you, he has been talking to his whack mother? You know what I think? I think that deep down Hope enjoys Thomas's worship. I think deep down, it props her up, and makes her feel like the only girl in the world. There is no Steffy when Thomas is tongue bathing her. I also think deep down, Hope likes the way Thomas's attention fires Liam up. It keeps Liam's focus on her. She should look at her mom's past a bit; Brooke tried this with Grant and with James; Grant ended up getting shot and James ended up with Sheila. Know your history Hope. 

Edited November 7, 2020 by RuntheTable

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

when Thomas stood up from his fall, and that wonderful, thick, wavy hair was all awry........

IKR? And now that he's wearing shirts that caress his body properly instead of seeming like they're a size too small...

Quote

deep down Hope enjoys Thomas's worship. I think deep down, it props her up, and makes her feel like the only girl in the world. There is no Steffy when Thomas is tongue bathing her. I also think deep down, Hope likes the way Thomas's attention fires Liam up. It keeps Liam's focus on her.

Yep, yep, yep. Hope's doing her own version of The Waffle. She keeps Thomas in her life via Douglas and she holds onto Liam via Beth. And any day of the week she can play them against each other. Steffy can't beat that until she gets knocked up by Finn or somebody, The best she can do now is make Liam come to the cliff house to see his child. His child who is apparently being held hostage in her bedroom and doped up on sleep medication. (Also, is it a big deal that they're still using a baby monitor with 4-year old Kelly? Posters on another forum are way annoyed about that.)

[TobinAlbers]

On 11/7/2020 at 10:46 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Yep, yep, yep. Hope's doing her own version of The Waffle. She keeps Thomas in her life via Douglas and she holds onto Liam via Beth. And any day of the week she can play them against each other.

Hope waffling and intentionally playing Liam against other men ain't nothing new. She intentionally did it with Wyatt and Liam, knowing they were brothers, knowing how it felt when Liam was doing it to her and Steffy and wanted to 'teach him a lesson' and what happened?  She married Wyatt and regretted it as early as her honeymoon when she saw Liam moving on with Ivy, then gave Liam hope only to find out she was pregnant and decide to go back to Wyatt to 'make it work' with Quinn helping to upend things by stalking her into a fall down the stairs.

She got burned BIG time and she's on that path again with a very similarly disturbed, obsessive Thomas who should already be on her permanent crap list after what he did to keep Beth secret (Remember, Emma?). Instead, like with Quinn/Wyatt, she thinks she can handle the crazy Thomas (Quinn) situation to enjoy the doting attentive Thomas (Wyatt). Like with crazy Quinn, Thomas has shown he hates Liam, doesn't respect her relationship with him, and is capable of dangerous behavior towards him (remember that rooftop fight with Liam when Thomas was trying to KIDNAP you?). She's using the excuse of Douglas to keep this dangerous guy around for her broken reasons and it'll be Douglas, Beth, and Liam who will bear the brunt of the fallout. 

Liam is a tool, but he wasn't wrong about Quinn or about Thomas and he doesn't deserve to have his life and family upended and threatened yet again by a psycho who will get a free pass because he's a Forrester and/or has a brain injury/tumor.  As fine as MA is, Thomas, like Quinn before him, should be disappeared by Bill and Justin with a quickness. And that is what I bet will break up Hope and Liam - Liam at his wits end, goes to Bill for help, Bill starts making the moves to take care of Thomas, Hope finds out and she 'can't believe Liam would do something so horrible-especially now that we know Thomas is sick and not crazy' and drop him saying he's worse than Thomas -which would be some serious BS.

Edited November 9, 2020 by TobinAlbers

[Anna Yolei]

On 11/6/2020 at 11:33 AM, CountryGirl said:

Thomas using Liam's liam-ness (aka waffling) to defend and deflect. And he even threw shade at the original King of the Waffles - his own daddy.

Well played, Tommy Two-Screws. Well played.

Anyone who can drag Liam and Ridge in the same conversation is good in my book! 😂

......okay, not really but shit, no one else ever calls 'em out so I'll take what I can get.

This is the goofy camp I know and love outta B&B, not the dark prince villainy a la Paul Ryan or Adam Newman. This is a return to form and I'm here for it.

[Gam2]

There are no words for how bone deep stupid Hope is. No words.

[TobinAlbers]

25 minutes ago, Anna Yolei said:

.....okay, not really but shit, no one else ever calls 'em out so I'll take what I can get.

C'mon, now! LOL.  Liam's been called out by Quinn (repeatedly until she bowed out after raping him), Ridge, Bill, Eric,Thomas (took up the mantle from Quinn for the last year and a half), Steffy (most recently with the switchblade), Finn (multiple times just this month and will do it again soon), AND Hope. Liam's been getting hit a lot more lately by 'no one' so I'm crying foul! LOL

Hope is indeed bone deep stupid, but her meltdown in the office with Liam of 'Why can't things just stay pleasant!' made me realize why she's going in with blinders on with Thomas - think about the last two years of her life with all the pain, heartache, and drama she's had to ensure. Even when she got Beth back the drama wasn't over as she had both the Thomas and Steffy fires still smoldering in her life. Steffy has finally moved on from Liam and Hope finally made Liam move on from being her white knight. Hope's life is finally in 'balance' to get back to normal things like designing as long as her desperate belief that Thomas is better and being on the up and up is maintained. And then Liam comes barreling in with accusations that threaten to destroy the harmony and normalcy she so desperately needs.  But rather than listen to what Liam is warning her about and also realistically keeping distance between her and Thomas (no reason for her to hire him to her team; co-parenting is enough) she's blaming Liam as being the distrupter (because let's face it, he usually was when it came to Steffy) because the alternative is that the bio dad of the child she is raising hasn't gotten better and will likely never get better and will always make drama in her life because she is Douglas' adopted mother and she rightfully won't abandon him - and yet normalcy is all Hope wants now.

I get her desire to keep her head in the sand. But it's only going to blow up in her face into an even bigger bomb on her life because she'll have alienated Liam again in the process. She did this same crap of her knowing best in the aftermath of losing Beth, insisting she and Liam separate, pushing him to Steffy, and making choices about their life without talking it through with him like the partners they're supposed to be. Once again, she's making decisions about their life without talking it through with him. Liam's making some missteps here as well (he's transferred his white knight itch from Steffy to Hope and is being hella possessive) but he's not wrong about the danger Thomas poses and Hope is not talking to him, but hiding stuff and/or expecting Liam to just accept it when, no, he doesn't just have to.

Karen really needs to come claim her grandchild. Thomas is always going to use that kid to get to Hope.  It would be really poignant if Douglas was the one who realized it and called Karen up to say he wanted to live with her, sacrificing his happiness with his family with Lope and Beth so that Thomas would leave them alone.  Douglas could even tell him - if I hear you're mean to Hope and Liam, I won't see you anymore. You can bet neither Ridge nor Thomas would pull any BS with Karen over Douglas. Bill doesn't seem to have the balls to bury Thomas, but I can believe Karen would. 

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by TobinAlbers

[Anna Yolei]

On 11/7/2020 at 7:46 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Hope's doing her own version of The Waffle.

It's not even the first time she's done this shit. She was fine and dandy with stringing poor Wyatt along as a weapon to keep Liam in line back in the day, and waffle or not, it got old, fast. I mean shit, if you don't trust him, then LEAVE. At least these days he's trying not to be a complete waffling shitbag, but Hope is looking on track to becoming the new Sharon Newman.

[LittleIggy]

WTF was Hope wearing? The “dress” was bad enough, but the drapery tassels around her neck? 🤦‍♀️

[Waldo13]

In the immortal words of Forest Gump, “Stupid is as stupid does”. These gosh darn TIIC as now really insulting my intelligence. Hope is more upset with Liam than Lurch?  Are we actually going to buy this crap?  Right now the mannequin is 10x smarter than Hope if Hope still cannot see that Lurch is still obsessed with her. Lurch words alone is evidence of this by telling Hope that his designs are inspired by her. Hope use to be a model as KM, but not now. Let Lurch use Zoey to inspire him. She’s a model. 

Lurch’s breath must stink because he spews verbal diarrhea. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

FFS, Hope. Why is Thomas being Douglas' father a pass for him to keep provoking Liam? Remember Liam? Your HUSBAND and the father of your biological child?

Hopequinn is an instigator. Wonder if she can be charged as an accessory to murder? Or at least attempted murder. 😉🤔

Yes, Hope is too stupid to be alive. AFAIC she almost deserves whatever Thomas does to her. She just can't accept that she keeps getting taken in by him because she has to believe her judgment is superior to everyone else's.

Poor Liam is such a Cassandra. He's 100% on Thomas and nobody believes him. Ditto comments upthread, he needs to bring in the big guns and tell Bill what's going on. Bill might not have a much concern about Hope though.

The first thing Hope should wonder is why Thomas had that thing in his bedroom.

Hopequinn: Hope wants you! Take her now!
Thomas: Uh, Hope? You up for a three-way?
Liam: Dude, stop! Nobody wants a three-way with your psycho a$$!
Hope: Well....

Quote

WTF was Hope wearing? The “dress” was bad enough, but the drapery tassels around her neck? 🤦‍♀️

Check out how it looks on Worn on TV. The tassels left untied look as if they're attached to the model's boobs like those twirling pasties strippers wear:

[LittleIggy]

Wear is that hideous dress from? PS, give that model a sandwich 🥪 or two. Her legs look like kindling.

Edited November 10, 2020 by LittleIggy

[Anna Yolei]

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Bill might not have a much concern about Hope though

IIRC, he buried the hatchet with Hope a while back. His biggest issue of Hope being a prude who won't put our is very much not an issue anymore.

That said, even if he didn't give a rat's ass about Hope, Beth is still his granddaughter and Thomas still raped his niece. I've no doubt he's drop Thomas outta a helicopter too before letting him anywhere near her. 

I'm actually liking that the kids (who are nearly my age!) aren't always turning to their folks to fix things. That was the one thing that really stunted development for Hope, Steffy, Liam and even Wyatt to an extent (to his credit, he pushed back a lot against Quinn but even he could lean into it when it suited him). While this would be the one time I would welcome Bill meddling in Lope's lives, it's nice to see Liam no longer being pulled in every which way and taking some action on his own. Watching him mewl to Ridge to fix his Quinn situation was cringe and the long scenes of his thousand yard stares in the early 2010s as he got told who to be with are still grating upon rewatch, so even his recent jealousy fit that he owned up to was progress. Painful as fuck but I feel charitable this week.

[RuntheTable]

Living, breathing Hopequinn was creepy as fuck. 

Poor Liam is looking like Chicken Little. 

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU HOPE? Your momma has made some bad choices in her life when it comes to men, relationships, sex, love and war, but your momma has always been able to smell a rat. And considering who your dad is? I wanted Liam to go over to Hope and smack the stupid right off her face. Hope, Liam is your husband, and as such, should be the only man registering on your Mandar. Liam is also the father of your natural child, her name is Beth, you remember her right? The child that was stolen from you? Thomas didn't steal her, but he sure helped propagate the lies. He kept the truth from you and Liam. I do understand that you have been through a lot. I also understand that you want an end to the fighting and the drama, but burying your head in the sand is not going to change the facts. Thomas has problems. Whether they are from a brain tumor, or blows to the head, or being the child of Ridge and Taylor Marone, is irrelevant. Why would you question your husbands concerns on the matter of Thomas? Liam has been your champion through one of the most difficult times in your life. He stood by you, and supported you, completely ignoring his own grief and despair, in an effort to prop you up and alleviate your pain. And there you stand, defending one of the people responsible for that pain. A person who has hurt you and your husband. Hope, you were the one who wanted joint custody of Douglas, knowing full well that would require time with Thomas. You knew this, and even though Liam had reservations, you still soldiered on with your quest to adopt Douglas. And now here we are, with Thomas still firmly cemented in the middle of your marriage, and your husband is expressing his concerns after finding Hopequinn, and you yell at him? Oh, you can just step right the fuck off girlie! Then, you go racing over to Thomas's without any thought to your safety. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU HOPE? Thomas stole Hopequinn. He lied about it to Charlie, and you know it. Does it not occur to you how odd it is that Thomas has to have your likeness in front of him in order to design? Why doesn't he bring Hopequinn into the office? Doesn't he need inspiration there too? Oh, well, he has the real thing there I guess. After all Hope and Liam have been through to get to this point, and this stupid girl is still with her shit? Don't expect any sympathy from me when you get fucked over again dumbass. 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by RuntheTable

[nkotb]

19 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

 

Karen really needs to come claim her grandchild. Thomas is always going to use that kid to get to Hope.  It would be really poignant if Douglas was the one who realized it and called Karen up to say he wanted to live with her, sacrificing his happiness with his family with Lope and Beth so that Thomas would leave them alone.  Douglas could even tell him - if I hear you're mean to Hope and Liam, I won't see you anymore. You can bet neither Ridge nor Thomas would pull any BS with Karen over Douglas. Bill doesn't seem to have the balls to bury Thomas, but I can believe Karen would. 

 

You know what, that didn't occur to me, but that's a really good idea, at least, temporarily. It would foster some story, & more importantly, it'd give a legit reason for the perfect Douglas actor to be off-screen, without bringing in real-life COVID issues. I'd go for that. They could even say that he wants to be in 1 place during the pandemic, rather than bouncing between houses with Thomas & Hope, if they wanted to be timely & responsible. 

But, I second that $Bill would drop Thomas out of an airplane, or Justin would, at $Bill's request, & he wouldn't look back. Oh, & he'd look smoking hot while celebrating. 

[TobinAlbers]

10 minutes ago, nkotb said:

But, I second that $Bill would drop Thomas out of an airplane, or Justin would, at $Bill's request, & he wouldn't look back. Oh, & he'd look smoking hot while celebrating. 

That's the thing! Justin should be having a bigger role in this. And it'd be easy if it's Justin overhearing Liam sounding out all the crap that Thomas is doing to Bill.  Bill offers to bury Thomas but Liam is adamant - do nothing. Justin, however, is not going to let Thomas off the hook so easily since this 'reformation' ain't nothing but a sham. Justin, with all his history and experience doing shady things for Bill and covering it up, sets up Thomas to have an 'accident' - of course someone else gets caught in the trap (Hope) and Bill is then caught between covering up for Justin and lying to his own son about how his wife got injured/hurt. Of course then once it's all out, Hope turns away from Liam because if he hadn't gone to Bill none of this would've happened and dummy Hope will turn to Thomas now head injury/tumor free.

[nkotb]

Who else wants @TobinAlbers to write the show? 10x better than what we'll actually see on-screen. Plus, $Bill & Justin are actually really good, & super really good together, they play off of each other really well. It'd just be aces to see them on-screen once in a while, or more often. 

[Anna Yolei]

4 hours ago, RuntheTable said:

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU HOPE? Your momma has made some bad choices in her life when it comes to men, relationships, sex, love and war, but your momma has always been able to smell a rat.

For that matter, even Hope herself was not this stupid ten years ago when the only thing at stake was her hurt pride and a wasted wedding dress (so many, many weddings!) and didn't flinch at calling Steffy out as the homewrecker trash that she was. And Steffy wasn't nearly this open and crazy as Tommy Choo-choo.

I mean, there's a lot of things one can chide Brooke's parenting on, but bringing a know sociopath child abuser around wasn't one of them.

[Gam2]

Why is Thomass living in that tiny dump? He’s a designer for FC and a member of the family. Of course, Hope and Liam live in a tiny, dark cabin. Go figure.

[Joimiaroxeu]

I don't get why they had Hope acting like she'd never seen the mannequin before. Neither do I buy that she's never visited the boutique to see how the HFTF products were being displayed.

Dr. Finn goes to work dressed like he's about to sit out on the deck and knock back some brewskis. Okay. 😑

Oh please, who is writing the dialogue for Zoe, Paris, Zende, and Carter? Constant slobbery tongue baths all around with that bunch. Bradley, it's obvious enough that you're trying to get your diversity brownie points with CBS. Stop trying so hard. IMO it's thisclose to looking like mockery.

So messy you are, Finn. Maybe you need to stay out other people's feuds. Or are you just stirring up stuff to deflect attention from yourself?

Whee, Paris lowkey calling out Zoe's player game in front of Carter. I like her.

A dinner party for four in Carter's tiny apartment. Meh. Are they going to sit on each other's laps?

Quote

Why is Thomass living in that tiny dump? He’s a designer for FC and a member of the family

Right? He must've inherited money from Stephanie so it's not like he's poor. I get why he might not want to live in Eric's mansion though. Granddad probably threw him out after the wedding fiasco with Zoe and Hope.

[Runningwild]

3 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Dr. Finn goes to work dressed like he's about to sit out on the deck and knock back some brewskis. Okay. 😑

Doesn’t he work in the ER? Or in the hospital? I guess he changes into scrubs when he gets there. That’s how you should do it anyway. What’s the point of wearing scrubs from your house?

[CountryGirl]

21 hours ago, nkotb said:

Who else wants @TobinAlbers to write the show? 10x better than what we'll actually see on-screen. Plus, $Bill & Justin are actually really good, & super really good together, they play off of each other really well. It'd just be aces to see them on-screen once in a while, or more often. 

[RuntheTable]

I am.....

I don't know what I am except very confused. How did this Hopequinn mess get turned around to make Liam look like the bad guy? And Hope, girl, I do not know what your problem is, but to throw your husband under the bus and prop the person that fucked you over? Where the hell is Stephanie? The Queen would have this shit fixed in a LA heartbeat. She never had a problem taking Hope's mom to task, and I am sure she wouldn't with Hope either. And as much as I love my Brooke, she wouldn't be any help because she is lost in her Destiny right now. She would just smile and whisper about staying strong and staying the course. So who is there to step in and get some kind of handle on this shit? 

BILL! As mentioned by other posters, he is really the only one with any kahunas anymore, although they have been severely constrained by Katie for some time now. I like softie Bill when it comes to certain things, but please, give this man his edge back. Justin needs something to do too. Why can't Justin hook back up with Donna? I so wanted Donna and Eric to reconnect, but it looks like Eric is gonna be tasting that cut rate Boones Farm or Ripple, so give Donna and Justin something to do too. They would be far more interesting than Zoe/Carter.

Finn took some liberties with Liam. I don't think he is entirely wrong, but I think it is a bit early in the game for him to be setting standards for Liam and Steffy's relationship. I think Finn knows Thomas has issues, but I also think he is going to downplay them for his own purposes. And he won't stand out as being odd either because both Steffy and Hope are also riding the Thomas has been redeemed wave. Supporting Steffy's brother from Liam's onslaught will earn him some brownie points, and will maybe cause Steffy to look at Liam a bit differently, and maybe cause her to not want to spend as much time with Liam. Hmmmm. 

My Pink! Oh, I am liking her more and more. But in agreement that those scenes were borderline mockery. Bigotry of any kind is offensive, but rushing to slap an unthought out band aid on it is just as offensive. 

14 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Oh please, who is writing the dialogue for Zoe, Paris, Zende, and Carter?

My guess would be the same crew who is writing the Bridge drivel. 

And in closing, because I am a sentimental, sappy assed, horney old woman, I want to just cradle Thomas's head and make it all better for him. 

[R.Marie]

15 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I don't get why they had Hope acting like she'd never seen the mannequin before. Neither do I buy that she's never visited the boutique to see how the HFTF products were being displayed.

Dr. Finn goes to work dressed like he's about to sit out on the deck and knock back some brewskis. Okay. 😑

Oh please, who is writing the dialogue for Zoe, Paris, Zende, and Carter? Constant slobbery tongue baths all around with that bunch. Bradley, it's obvious enough that you're trying to get your diversity brownie points with CBS. Stop trying so hard. IMO it's thisclose to looking like mockery.

So messy you are, Finn. Maybe you need to stay out other people's feuds. Or are you just stirring up stuff to deflect attention from yourself?

Whee, Paris lowkey calling out Zoe's player game in front of Carter. I like her.

A dinner party for four in Carter's tiny apartment. Meh. Are they going to sit on each other's laps?

Right? He must've inherited money from Stephanie so it's not like he's poor. I get why he might not want to live in Eric's mansion though. Granddad probably threw him out after the wedding fiasco with Zoe and Hope.

Totally agree about the diversity brownie points.

[Waldo13]

Carter your a grown man, a Lawyer, and a COO but you act like a love sick teenager. 

Yes Hope, the mannequin inspires Lurch but you don’t find it creepy at all.  WTF?  Hope’s head is so far up her ass that she can’t hear or see Lurch is still obsessed with her.  

Liam, you go to Dr Finn but you don’t even bring up the mannequin. ET TU Dr Finn. Another victim of Lurch mist. Another dolt that can’t fantom the fact that both Hope and Stuffy are bias. Stuffy for her brother and Hope for Lurch being Douglas’ father. 
 

The theme throughout today’s show should be “There are none so blind as those who will not see”.  🙈🙉🙊

Can anyone imagine KM playing Hope that stupid.  TIIC had to bring in AN to play Hope as a brainless rag doll. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

5 hours ago, R.Marie said:

Totally agree about the diversity brownie points.

To clarify, I have no problem with the Black members of the B&B cast having scenes together or a front-burner storyline. My issue is with the way it's being done. Their dialogue seems overblown bordering on the sarcastic and I don't think that's the intent unless Brad is dog-whistling to the certain segment of viewers who don't want see Black characters except as accessories to White characters.

For example, yesterday's episode was the first in recent memory that one of the Black cast members didn't mention that Carter was the COO. Why did the show make such an absurdly big deal about it for weeks except perhaps to curry favor with TPTB at the network? I doubt many of the Black audience were impressed because it's clear nothing has changed otherwise in Carter's characterization. Seems like a empty gesture to me, being referenced excessively so Brad and his minions can pretend like they've accomplished something.

Sorry but IMO the way those four characters are being written is beginning to come across to me like "Yeah, we think this is ridiculous but we have to do it because CBS is making us."

Quote

My guess would be the same crew who is writing the Bridge drivel. 

Perhaps but I doubt it. Whatever, Brooke and Ridge are long-time legacy characters who have to be propped because they represent a significant portion of B&B history. Plus they're historically attached in one way or another to most of the rest of the characters. I think if Zoe, Paris, and Zende disappeared tomorrow, and Carter went back to appearing only when there's a wedding or divorce to be handled, not many people would notice or care. Scenes like that b.s. yesterday seem to me like a struggle to make the characters seem relevant. Y&R made the same mistake back when they used to have what was called Winters Wednesdays by fans who saw through it. TPTB actually let it be known that they called what they were doing "the Black storyline." Going into this millennium's third decade, in the age of incisive use of social media and forums by viewers, I think B&B risks continuing on this path at their own peril.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Joimiaroxeu
math is hard

[Joimiaroxeu]

Well, Zende sort of let Paris know he wasn't going to be chasing her at the expense of his work. Gotta keep these wimmen in line, huh, Zende? 😉

Sure you're not taking sides, Finn. You're just working both sides.

I wish they'd get Zende some different clothes. That three-piece suit makes him look like a used car salesman to me. And not in a good way.

Oy, Hopequinn needs to get some Visine for those red eyes. Maybe Thomas could get her an emergency appointment with an ophthalmologist.

A round bed. In the living room. So 1970s porn movie. FC must not be paying Carter much if he can't afford a place with a separate bedroom. 😒

Hmm, Paris might want to consider investing in some sturdier support for her boobular area. I looked at her today after she took off her jacket and all I could think of was back pain. Zoe could probably hook her up with some vintage stuff from Brooke's lingerie line.

FFS, even Hope doesn't really believe the crap she's blathering about Thomas. The Wiki page for Stupid has her picture on it.

[Gam2]

Just how many times have we listened to Zoe and Paris have the same damn conversation about Zende? This soap is the absolute WORST about repeating day after day after day. Write some new dialogues, writers!!!!

[Anna Yolei]

11 hours ago, RuntheTable said:

don't know what I am except very confused. How did this Hopequinn mess get turned around to make Liam look like the bad guy?

Fucking this.

Lord knows I enjoy a good Liam dragging but you'd think after all this bullshit Hope or Steffy or anyone else would believe him about Thomas. I mean, he was proven right about the guy not once, but TWICE. As far as he knows Hope has no interest in the guy so what would he win by lying?

Make it make sense, Show?

6 hours ago, Waldo13 said:

Can anyone imagine KM playing Hope that stupid.

The way Hope was written when KM was in the role, I'd probably be actively rooting for Thomas long before Beth was found.

She did a great job as a spoiled, bratty ice princess but I truly loathed the character by the time she left. This version can occasionally strike a balance and use that firey rage to good use (like rescuing Douglas) and I do like her, but then she gets stuck on stupid for no reason.

As others said, even Brooke could smell a rat. But then, she had to fight and claw for everything she earned. By the time Hope was born, the worst of those battles were behind her. Between Nick, the non ogre version of Ridge and a boatload of family, Hope has been especially sheltered. On any other series, she'd have spent her teens and 20s coming outta that bubble but that arrested development is coming to bite her in the ass when there's more than Liam at stake.

6 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

For example, yesterday's episode was the first in recent memory that one of the Black cast members didn't mention that Carter was the COO. Why did the show make such an absurdly big deal about it for weeks except perhaps to curry favor with TPTB at the network? I doubt many of the Black audience were impressed because it's clear nothing has changed otherwise in Carter's characterization. Seems like a empty gesture to me, being referenced excessively so Brad and his minions can pretend like they've accomplished something

I'm black and best believe we notice the difference between clymby but earnest attempts to write meaningful stories (ie the Winters story on Y&R in the 90s) and pandering.

Over the years, I've come to the conclusion that diversity behind the scenes is just as important as in front of the camera for exactly this reason. There are things that those outside of a marginalized community just can't pick up on, not without a lot of input from the outside community like a lotta my trans friend did to point out TERF dogwhistles that I had unintentionally posted (this was well before JK Rowling discourse had made it a mainstream topic over here in the US).

If Bell is serious about developing this group of black cast members, he'd be wise to diversify what I presume is a lily white writers room as a start.

[Waldo13]

Why does no one beside Liam think that Lurch having the mannequin is not creepy. Even the good doctor and part time psychologist blows off Liam and thinks Lurch is more normal than Lurch.  Dr Finn has no right to pontificate on Liam’s and Hope’s marriage.  

Kelly means the world to Stuffy but she’s willing to leave Kelly with a sitter to have a romantic dinner and dessert with the good doctor.  

Again I ask how Hope can take Lurch’s side over Liam. Is Hope that upset that Liam spends too much time with Stuffy. Hope rationalizes the mannequin but she can’t realize why Liam wants to be with his daughter. I’ll give you that Liam is too obsessive but that’s what a waffle does. 

[TobinAlbers]

On 11/10/2020 at 11:55 AM, nkotb said:

Who else wants @TobinAlbers to write the show? 10x better than what we'll actually see on-screen. Plus, $Bill & Justin are actually really good, & super really good together, they play off of each other really well. It'd just be aces to see them on-screen once in a while, or more often. 

Awww, you're too sweet. I think we all here should form a collective partnership to write for the show. A lot of people on here have great ideas!

If the show was true about embracing diversity, etc. Justin should be front and center with Donna and his granddaughter Rosie. In fact given what he's seen of how the Forrester kids are messed up, he should be especially concerned about his granddaughter growing up under the Forrester influence (even if it is offscreen with Marcus and Dayzee).

On one hand it makes sense Finn doesn't want to badmouth his brand new GF's brother, but that he has so much disdain for Liam that he would dismiss his valid concerns when a) Finn saw for himself and commented that he felt something was off with Thomas and b) Finn told Liam what Thomas said makes no sense.  HTH could he not think that Liam would have issue with it, confront Thomas, and look for affirmation from someone else for support re Thomas' issues?  It's interesting he feels he can comment on everything in LIAM's life but feels Liam oversteps and has boundary issues.  I mean, yeah, in some cases he does, but Finn ain't got no business commenting on Liam's relationship with Kelly or what he should do about this marriage to Hope.

The show is way too in love with Finn being the big bad, brand new shiny awesome guy to put Liam in his place and badmouth him. I get they want to give voice to the anti-Liam fan contingent but they're pandering a bit too much now with him feeling he can comment and judge Liam's life in about every facet, IMO. Someone needs to check Finn. Interesting that used to be Wyatt's job but he's now so far removed from Liam's life and parked with Flo with sporadic appearances that they felt they needed a new guy. Take heed Finn. Your shiny new teflon status will last only so long. Which the way you've been acting is a good AFAIC. 

1 hour ago, Waldo13 said:

Again I ask how Hope can take Lurch’s side over Liam. Is Hope that upset that Liam spends too much time with Stuffy. Hope rationalizes the mannequin but she can’t realize why Liam wants to be with his daughter. I’ll give you that Liam is too obsessive but that’s what a waffle does. 

Hope may also be playing the 'I put up with your crap for years with Steffy; now it's your turn to put up with mine over Thomas' but here's the thing - Steffy was a pain (locked her in a gondola; killed one cousin and nearly a second) but Thomas is a whole other level of craziness; he's Quinn level. Unless the message from the show is that Liam is such trash now after a decade as their leading man that obnoxious Finn and crazy Thomas are preferable, the show really is making no sense in stacking the deck like this in people NOT seeing Thomas is off and suddenly insisting that Liam is overreacting. He wasn't wrong about Quinn and he (Captive Cabin), Hope(lost baby), and Steffy (being 'robbed' and duped into a marriage to Wyatt) paid for it while Quinn skated.

Having said all this, you can tell SC and MA are having a blast with this stuff. SC has voiced his own jabs at Liam himself so he may actually like the whole Chicken Little/Cassandra (as people said in earlier posts) thing going on and having people put Liam in his place.  I, as a fan, only ask that he now be allowed to LEARN and GROW from his toolish ways to be....better.

 

[Angeleyes]

I still think it was wrong that the writers never fully allowed Justin to vent his anger at Thomas over the death of his niece. Justin should have been pushing to prosecute Thomas. We never got to see the intensity of Justin’s grief and that could have naturally pulled in Bill or Donna as they sought to comfort him and/or help him seek vengeance. 
I think the problem with the Zoe/Carter/Zende/Paris quadrangle is that the writers never allowed us to become invested in Carter or Zoe to begin with. Carter has just been sort of there and only really around for weddings and divorces. Zoe was a villain from the jump and her only redeeming contribution was that she agreed to help Hope and Liam with the Beth situation, but she even squandered that by actually falling in love with Thomas for no good reason. She never paid for her part in the Beth coverup. We’ve had no reason to cheer for her. The pairing with Carter has felt so sudden and forced because of the obvious age difference and lack of chemistry. The writers should have done a better job of making us want Carter and Zoe to be together forever before they brought in two more people to break them up. Paris is a social worker so she could have been part of a check on Kelly as part of Steffy’s recovery or they could have made her a drug counselor or NA sponsor. It just seems to be such an old trope that she’s only here to steal her sister’s boyfriend and crush at the same time. 

[Anna Yolei]

2 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

. Interesting that used to be Wyatt's job but he's now so far removed from Liam's life and parked with Flo with sporadic appearances that they felt they needed a new guy

If Wyatt never opens his trap again about Liam's poor decision making after hooking up with Flo and ditching Sally, it will be way too soon. Wyatt was always out for number one, so his owning of Liam never really stuck the landing.

2 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

Having said all this, you can tell SC and MA are having a blast with this stuff. SC has voiced his own jabs at Liam himself so he may actually like the whole Chicken Little/Cassandra (as people said in earlier posts) thing going on and having people put Liam in his place.  I, as a fan, only ask that he now be allowed to LEARN and GROW from his toolish ways to be....better.

Personally I was over the lampshading of Liam's waffleness back when Eric read him the riot act about four years ago, as hilarious as that scene was.

And that's frustrating that these characters are rarely allowed to grow and change and in the very few instances where they do grow for the better, it gets wiped away with a new recast (Thomas) or gets a major backslide where none made any sense (Steffy). I could make the same argument for Brooke, Ridge and Taylor too but the chemistry and the better writing in the 90s preserved that well beyond it's expiration date.

1 hour ago, Angeleyes said:

It just seems to be such an old trope that she’s only here to steal her sister’s boyfriend and crush at the same time. 

It is, and this is beat for beat the same shit we got with the Avants, over the exactly same guy no less. Like you said, we have an opening for a social worker by virtue of Steffy's drug addiction. Why not introducer her line that before shoving her into a love rectangle between three other people we barely know at best and that most of the fandom wanted gone years ago at worse?

[CountryGirl]

Guys, I've gone back and forth and then some about WTF is up with Hope these days and I think I've finally put my finger on what's going on here and it comes down to Thomas not being the only one in need of some very serious therapy.

Which, come to think of it, she NEVER got ANY therapy after Beth's "death." I think there was a bit of chatter about her talking to Taylor, which, hell no to that whackadoo, who should have her license revoked years ago, hack talking to anyone with a pulse about anything, period, let alone dispensing medical advice/therapy.

She never got any help with her initial grief or clear postpartum depression for all those months she was gaslit and lied to and manipulated after Beth was gone by Thomas, Flo, Zoe, and what's his name who dated Zoe after dating and dumping poor virginal Emma (snaps fingers - Xander). And just because Beth was alive and well the whole time and living with Steffy and Hope and Liam got their daughter back didn't make everything magically okay again. She needed therapy just as much post the reunion with Beth as she needed before. 

Her reaction to Liam telling her and Steffy about the Hopequinn - which was almost manic in its intensity and ferocity to not have Liam upsetting the apple cart she had so carefully constructed in the wake of their reunion with Beth and outing Thomas during the aborted Zomas wedding - was so very telling. She looked in need of some meds with her words and her eyes and just the sheer physicality of her looking to be a heartbeat away from slapping any more words coming out of Liam's mouth. 

Everything inside of her was screaming: "No! No more! Not after everything I've been through! No MORE!" and much of her words to her flabbergasted husband were to that effect.

Her shutting him down and dismissing any talk of Thomas' dark side remerging (not that it really went away) is her way of trying to control a situation that really, she can't. But she's trying to and her going over to talk to Thomas was all part of her attempt to protect the Hope that was so severely hurt and devastated by being led to believe her child was dead for the better part of a year and her control and her agency and her choices were completely stripped away from her and by people she knew, by her own fucking family. So she's trying to take control here by somehow making it okay for Thomas to have a creepy-as-hell doppelganger mannequin in his apartment. It's not making it okay for him, it's making it okay for her. Just like she attempted to exert some sort of control by pushing Liam to be with Steffy and his real family because some inner voice told her it would only be a matter of time before he drifted back to them and why wouldn't he, when she was some pathetic excuse for a wife and couldn't even bring their daughter into the world safely. Because that's what Hope told herself, over and over and over again. That she wasn't good enough. That she was a failure. That is was her fault that Beth died. Remember how she sobbed, "I tried, I tried so hard." And I'm sure she still blames herself for the spur-of-the-moment babymoon jaunt to Catalina so close to Beth's birth. 

Again, none of that goes away simply because Beth is back in her arms. That trauma takes years to unpack and we've seen nothing to suggest that Hope got any sort of real therapy that would help her fully come to terms with all that happened. It was basically brushed under the rug - and let me be clear here that Hope did some of that brushing - once she got Beth back and is a spot-on coping mechanism for survivors of trauma where she moved on and pushed her feelings aside to protect herself as who wants to be a victim? No one. 

Also, when I think about Hope in Thomas' apartment, looking at him, looking at the Hopequinn, I could visibly see her skin crawling and despite her bravado in charging over there to confront her, every inch of her seemed poised to flee. But she did and said what she need to - so she can make things okay again. So she can hold on to this farce of normalcy (as her life will never be normal with Thomas in it) she's been attempting to build, like a house of blocks a toddler keeps stacking and restacking, since she was reunited with Beth.

That little bit with Thomas telling her Liam wouldn't like him keeping the manneqin in his apartment. 

And Hope, being oh-so-logical (seeming), said: "Liam.......is a businessman. And you're an artist." She takes a breath. "A truly gifted one at that. And sometimes that...kind of creativity...may.......frighten people." She can't look at him here and in addition to her still going through trauma just being in the same room with him, I think she is, for a moment, openly acknowledging who Thomas was...and still is. I think she can sense the danger all around her but only lets it in for a nanosecond because again, her self-preservation is telling her to compartmentalize those feelings away. She adds: "Because they don't understand it. And I'll admit there are times when I don't completely understand it." Yup. " And...I can be uncomfortable." Uh huh. 

But she doesn't finish that thought as she pivots to talking about his incredible designs and how she thinks the mannequin is helping him unleash something he's had inside of him all along. And I think there's a tiny bit of something that realizes it's more than his designs. 

I fully realize I may be giving the writers far too much credit here, but two things I do know - she went through incredible trauma that many people would find hard to survive and she never addressed it. 

Going back to the back and forth with Liam in Steffy's office, her words just resonated with me:

Hope, screaming over Liam's protests about Thomas: "Why can't everything just stay PLEASANT???" And of course, it is not pleasant, not with Thomas as obsessed as ever, but Hope's desire for self-preservation is outpacing logic and reason right now.

She then added: "Everything has been FINE. But then  you had to go and incite Thomas." Easier to attack he is who jeopardizing her (false) sense of security and stability. 

She was crying as she ran out the door, telling Liam she was going to give Thomas the same message and when he argued against it, again, notice her words as she snapped: "HE'S FINE, LIAM!"

On the verge of tears, Hope stormed toward the door. Liam asked where she was going. She said she planned to give Thomas the same message. Liam told her that she couldn't do that, but she yelled back, "He's fine, Liam!"

When clearly, he is not.

And neither is she.

[Anna Yolei]

It cannot be stated nearly enough how much Hope has needed therapy for all this at every step. Definitely not from Taylor, even if I believed she'd actually open her "services" to someone from Brooke's bloodline. 

 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Oy, Hope, Liam, Steffy, and Wyatt probably all need therapy. The four of them probably average three or four marriages at this point and they're about in their mid-thirties now, right? It's insane, especially when you consider that most of their marriages have been to each other. The Forresters and Spencers have to be among the laughing stocks of Beverly Hills and Bel Air. And I don't why Wyatt has made Flo wait so long to get her Mrs. tag. Heck, they should at least be on their second annulment or divorce by now. 😉

[RuntheTable]

First date night for Zende and Paris, as well as Thomas and Hopequinn. 

Well, it looks like Carter is gonna pop the question. All his talk about it being an important evening and such. And Zende brought Paris flowers; that was sweet. For once, I think they may have got it right, because Paris and Zende do have some chemistry, are age appropriate, and they are both just so pretty!

OH NO! Thomas was not dining alone. Show needs to stop pushing my buttons. It is as if they have crawled into my head just to ferret out all the things that make me sad. I hate loneliness! I hate to see people with no one. I realize Thomas has done this to himself, but it doesn't change how I feel about it. 

The thing I find most surprising about Thomas and Hopequinn, is how he is playing her in his head. Real Hope would never tell anyone to hurt anything. Real Hope is a loving, giving, most often misguided person, that only wants peace. So, I find it very telling that Thomas is imagining her as this red eyed death spewing vixen. 

I am not sure about Finn. My problem is he is the one who brought the whole Thomas thing up to Steffy. He is the one who told her he thought something was off. So as far as I am concerned, he set the ball rolling, and Liam is just running the field to score the goal. But suddenly, Finn is talking out the other side of his mouth saying that Liam needs to step off. Maybe Finn needs to step off? 

And I must shout out to all my fellow posters who have given me some amazing reads on this page. You guys are the best, and so talented! It is a shame that we cannot boycott Show's writing staff and take over. 

Speaking of the lame writing on Show; I have been revisiting Dark Shadows. I am currently on episode 37 of the first season. While watching last night I get to this exchange between Barnabus and Dr. Woodard, the first doctor to appear on the show. The doctor is drawing blood from a very terrified Willy Loomis, and makes the comment that a lot of people don't like giving up any of their blood, to which Barnabus replies:

"Now, in a way isn't that understandable? After all, blood is the life force. It reaches in to the deepest recesses of both the heart and the brain. It is the familiar of our complete being. To surrender even one drop of it is to suggest a partial surrender of one's utmost self."

Now that is writing. 

 

[Crashcourse]

I'm confused (so what else is new?).  Is Zende really attracted to Paris, or does he want Zoey? He gives off these knowing, sometimes sly, looks so it's hard for me to read him.  I do like him and his pretty self though.