Love in the Time of Walkers: Relationships in The Walking Dead

[ByTor]

45 minutes ago, allyw said:

That whole thing was so badly written that it made it very hard for me to believe that Jessie was being abused. At one point, I actually thought that it was her that was the abuser.

Well, her appearance on the show could be construed as audience abuse :)

[Mu Shu]

Jessie deserved to die for making owl sculptures while shit was hitting the fan.  There is no room for outsider art in the ZA.  

I think up until now Rick had resisted his attraction for Michonne out of respect, feeling like she was too good a friend and ally to risk an intimate relationship with.  Jessie was just a side piece.  Sorry Jessie.  You were a shitty character.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Mu Shu

[allyw]

58 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

I think up until now Rick had resisted his attraction for Michonne out of respect, feeling like she was too good a friend and ally to risk an intimate relationship with.  Jessie was just a side piece.  Sorry Jessie.  You were a shitty character.

I can't even consider Jessie a side piece. To me she was nothing but a plot point to fulfill a comic moment which is why I stay out of the Jessick vs Richonne mess. Neither Jessie nor Pete got any sort of development and as soon as they died, they were forgotten. And though I never cared about either of them, I wanted to see the aftermath of Rick's ooc obsession and how him and Carl dealt with his role in his son losing his eye.

[mightysparrow]

11 hours ago, allyw said:

I can't even consider Jessie a side piece. To me she was nothing but a plot point to fulfill a comic moment which is why I stay out of the Jessick vs Richonne mess. Neither Jessie nor Pete got any sort of development and as soon as they died, they were forgotten. And though I never cared about either of them, I wanted to see the aftermath of Rick's ooc obsession and how him and Carl dealt with his role in his son losing his eye.

That's the thing that gets me (or one of them anyway).  I know we're supposed to completely forget about Jessie, her family, and the way Rick felt about her.  But it's hard to do when Carl is walking around with one eye.  The smart thing would have had Carl and Rick talk about what happened and how each of them feel about the result of Rick's obsession.  Instead we get nothing and next thing we know, Rick is fucking Michonne.  As far as I'm concerned, it's just not good enough.

[nodorothyparker]

Quote

And though I never cared about either of them, I wanted to see the aftermath of Rick's ooc obsession and how him and Carl dealt with his role in his son losing his eye.

That would have been much more interesting to me than barreling ahead into the endless Negan's coming!  Negan!  Did you hear?  Scary scary!  Negan's coming! that the back half of last season quickly devolved into.  The show wasted the better part of two season halves on Jessie and Rick's obsession with her but then one episode after we saw her and her kids die we get a random line about how some time has passed and it's now true love forever with Michonne.  Meanwhile, Carl is walking around with a crater in his face because of Jessie's messed up kid and there's no acknowledgement at all of Rick's role in riling that kid up.  

It's like they had the comic plot points of the Andersons' deaths and Carl getting shot but couldn't be bothered to deal with all of the stuff that should have been happening around it.  Other than one line before the first visit to Hilltop about Carl being the "kid with a messed up face" it was left up to his scenes in this last episode with Negan to give us any clue at all about how he actually felt about it.   Rick has never apologized to him or admitted to losing sight of the bigger picture and not dealing with the obvious mental issues he was having that caused him to obsess inappropriately over a married woman.   One of my favorite Rick-Carl scenes of the entire series was waaay back in season 2 when it was fairly obvious how things were going to have to end with Shane.  Rick was pretty honest with his son there in Herschel's barn that bad things were going to happen, that he couldn't always fix everything, and that eventually they would die.  That's the kind of thing I wanted to see with Rick acknowledging that he had badly screwed up and had forgotten that keeping his kids and by extension the entire group safe was the whole point of coming to Alexandria in the first place.  Had we gotten that scene an episode later, Rick moving on with Michonne wouldn't have felt nearly as jarring.  

I generally do find Rick pretty interesting if not always likable and I do think he has nice chemistry with Michonne.  But the show didn't do the relationship or Rick any favors by blowing through all of this.

Edited December 6, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[festivus]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

Meanwhile, Carl is walking around with a crater in his face because of Jessie's messed up kid and there's no acknowledgement at all of Rick's role in riling that kid up

Yeah and Michonne had to shoot that kid. I know he was threatening Carl but she had to kill a teenage boy. We should have seen her and Rick talking about this. We are still seeing the fallout from Carol having to shoot Lizzie and yet with Michonne, nothing. This show doesn't do right by this character.

[allyw]

@mightysparrow, @nodorothyparker & @festivusI agree with most of what you all said. Rick's mental issues should've been tackled along with the aftermath of the herd/big chop/Carl losing his eye/Michonne killing a child/Carol's part in egging Rick on and further development of Richonne but instead it became all about Negan's arrival. TF's grieving should've been shown but that would take time away from the omnipresent Negan and upcoming AOW.  

The show now revolves around the next big comic moment and nothing else. The lack of character development has been going on for a while now but it has gotten really egregious over the last couple seasons. And of course the pacing and the bottle episodes are another issue. Rick who is suppose to be the lead has really only been in 2 of the 7 episodes that has aired (7x05 & 7x07 were basically cameo appearances). How exactly does Gimple and Kirkman expect people to continue to care about these characters when you're not even seeing them?

[mightysparrow]

4 hours ago, festivus said:

Yeah and Michonne had to shoot that kid. I know he was threatening Carl but she had to kill a teenage boy. We should have seen her and Rick talking about this. We are still seeing the fallout from Carol having to shoot Lizzie and yet with Michonne, nothing. This show doesn't do right by this character.

You are preaching the gospel right here.  Michonne has been getting the short end of the stick for ages, really ever since season 4.  It's a disgrace. 

We're constantly told that the comics are the sacred word.  Well, Michonne is one of THE iconic characters in the comics.  Yet she's basically playing wallpaper on the tv show, while her comic story line is parceled out to other characters (including Gimple's pet).  I'm not surprised that Gimple doesn't care about wasting an actor as strong as Danai.  He has a tendency to ignore good actors, especially ones with a high melanin content.  Gimple has essentially hired the cast of 'The Wire' and has them doing NOTHING. 

Now Michonne is stuck playing a second-rate Andrea.  But Sasha already has the sharpshooter role and it's been established that Michonne can't shoot for shit.  So all Michonne gets to do is fuck Rick.  Talk about getting the short end of the stick!

[festivus]

Yeah about the dumbest thing this show does is waste the talent of Danai. I actually do see why she and Rick would get together but boy have they wasted the potential of some great acting between Danai and Andy with this romance. Imagine them actually talking about all the things they've been through, why Rick was obsessed with Jessie, Michonne losing her child, having to shoot a child, etc. It's all down to Andy and Danai's talent that I buy this romance at all because it sure ain't the writing. Instead we get Negan. Lots and lots of Negan. 

Edited December 6, 2016 by festivus

[kia112]

The cat was sweet. Ugly, but sweet. Happy Canonversary, Rick & Michonne!

[ghoulina]

I absolutely loved that. Clear is one my favorite episodes of all time, because it initiated the relationship between CARL and Michonne, which I actually enjoy more than Richonne. Getting a call back to the moment she stole that ugly cat was just everything. 

[Timetoread]

There doesn't seem to be a relationship between Carl and Michonne anymore.  And not even really one between Rick and Michonne either.  Apparently the writers feel that a love relationship is summed up in them smiling, hugging, and holding hands. And I was totally unsatisfied with the Daryl/Carol reunion.  I never saw a romance between the, but definitely them as the closest of friends, like family.  I have been so sick of what is now the third season of Carol's "I can't do this anymore" schtick.  I think what would have been nice is to have Daryl show up and say that he can't do this anymore.  Have him unload HIS fear and angst and guilt.  She skipped out to miss what happened to Abe and Glenn but Daryl had a front row seat and even played a part in it.  Maybe Carol can think of somebody besides herself for a change.  Maybe have HIM cry in HER arms with her giving him the strength to go on.

 

One thing that I have always felt this show lacked was how much comfort is a part of the human experience and what I imagine would be the primary medicine in an apocalypse.  What made Carl and Michonne so poignant is not just that they got along but that they complemented each other.  A motherless child with a childless mother.  My yearning for Richonne wasn't so much romance, per se - though I appreciate some of it.  It was that complementing - the post coital connection of the two strongest people being allowed to let down their guard for each other.  Both so full of pain that their shared happiness feels especially well earned.  I was looking for small moments like Rick being able to sleep deeply.  This show has built him as a man who is never fully at rest, he wakes easily, is always moving - up later than the rest, up earlier than the rest.  I envision a quiet scene of Michonne simply watching him sleep - something that he does now that she shares his bed.  Or the much anticipated scene where Michonne tells him that she had a son.  Or a whole episode where both (separate and together) deal with some serious psychological pain in Carl.  Losing his eye was the positive alternative to having his brains blown out.  He couldn't possibly be "ok".  Bottom line is the writing staff needs an infusion of new talent that can bring humanity back to the story.  It is what made it good in the first place and it is the only thing that can save it.

[ghoulina]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I think they're doing a fine job showing a relationship between Rick and Michonne. It may just be a personal preference thing, but I don't need (or even like) endless sex and makeout scenes. The quick looks between them, the brief hand grabs - all of that stuff is enough for me. I think it portrays the type of relaxed, comfortable, perfectly in sync relationship they'd have by now. 

[festivus]

I agree with ya, I don't really need to see makeout scenes either, but I just wish we'd see more of them talking. Not just Rick and Michonne, but I've noticed that on this show people will have conversations but they never seem to be saying anything. Or the conversations sound so weird, like I never hear real people talk like that. Ever.

[indeed]

Maybe Daryl would have dropped his guard a bit, but he felt Carol needed him to be strong for her then.  The hugs are nice (with Rick and Carol), but the writers want Daryl in kill mode apparently, so no time for meaningful/emotional/cathartic scenes between Daryl and Maggie or Daryl and Carol.

More Carl and Michonne interaction would be nice.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Everyone should get their 'moment in the sun', but that said, Richonne still doesn't work for me.  I wouldn't necessarily blame it on just lack of chemistry or acting on either AL or DG's part, but I've never just been able to sense that "spark" that really sets apart the couples that you want to root for.

I totally see them caring about each other as great friends, and even a familial-like connection, but the romance lacks any real passion or flair. 

jmo

[Ohwell]

I agree, although I felt the same way about Maggie and Glenn.

[raven]

I liked Maggie and Glenn, though I put that on Steve Yeun's ability to really sell it.  I do see the spark with Rick and Michonne so I'm happy they're together and making it work.

I was amused by Abraham but I failed to see the attraction for either Rosita or Sasha.   Rosita I had figured as "sex, why not" and that she would dump him, not the other way around.  Sasha I have no explanation for because I saw no connection between them at all.   I did think Sasha and Bob worked together, though it seemed she went from "not interested" to "totally interested" in no time at all.  Show fail. 

[Ohwell]

I do agree that Glenn sold the relationship better than Maggie.  When they first met, she came off as someone who thought Glenn should be happy to have her because she was the only available, halfway attractive woman in the ZA.  Not.  

Later on it looked like she really did love him, but her acting just didn't sell it for me. 

[nodorothyparker]

I would imagine in this universe that "you look reasonably clean and haven't tried to kill or eat me" has a whole lot to do with the law of attraction.  General competence and usefulness probably also factor in, as well as ability to help provide protection.  Standards will have to evolve like everything else.  At least that's my rationale for half the pairings we've seen.

It also goes a long way toward explaining Daryl.  He was at his most attractive in the early seasons when he was one of the only consistently competent members of the group.  Now most of our regular team are just as capable and the most notable thing about him is being greasy and filthy all the time.  

[CletusMusashi]

My Richonne issues are well documented. But with different writers and/or directors, I could totally see AL and DG playing an awesome couple. On this show, though, even just trying to watch it from a pure "chemistry" angle, I think it's a waste of two great actors. Re-watching "Say Yes," I actually thought that Rick had more "Oh, just make out already" going with Dumpster Diva. Which leaves me feeling very confused. Because, yeah, I kind of would like to watch that train wreck of a coupling... but I'm not proud of the fact.

ETA: You've got to admit, the monosyllabic sexytalk between those two would be frigging hilarious.

"I could stuff your thang all night, Lori Junior. Yoral want more?"

"More."

"More what?"

"More. Now. Up up up."

And he'd never trade her to Negan, because why the hell would Negan want him to?

Edited March 13, 2017 by CletusMusashi

[CletusMusashi]

4 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

double post

Edited March 13, 2017 by CletusMusashi

[CletusMusashi]

5 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

triple post, apparently.

Edited March 13, 2017 by CletusMusashi

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

It would appear that Dumpster Diva is not the only one turned on by the idea of Rick doing his stuffin' thangs routine, Cletus, if its got you submitting posts so over-excitedly.

:P

[Ohwell]

I do think that Rick has more chemistry with Dumpster Diva in the short time we've seen them together.

[CletusMusashi]

So what cutesy name would the shippers end up giving it? DumpGrime? NotWinslow? RumpsterDick?

[Nashville]

19 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

So what cutesy name would the shippers end up giving it? DumpGrime? NotWinslow? RumpsterDick?

RickGrimy?

[nodorothyparker]

While I have no opinion on that particular pairing, I'm good with never seeing Rick roll around in the giant if surprisingly clean trash pile with Dumpster Diva.

[CletusMusashi]

You wouldn't be able to see them anyway.

They'd be surrounded by marching band formations making pretentious hand gestures.

[Nashville]

Just now, CletusMusashi said:

You wouldn't be able to see them anyway.

They'd be surrounded by marching band formations making pretentious hand gestures.

Ya just HADDA throw "hand gestures" in there, didnja?

Swear to god my mind is dirtier than that dump....

[nodorothyparker]

The non-terrible CGI parts of it did seem to have more clean laundry laying around in it than my actual laundry room.

[walnutqueen]

45 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

The non-terrible CGI parts of it did seem to have more clean laundry laying around in it than my actual laundry room.

Oh, now you're making me cry with your laundry room owning self.  I have a pile of questionable clothing on my bathroom floor.  I affectionately refer to it as my floordrobe.

[nodorothyparker]

If it makes you feel any better, it's actually a glorified half bath with a washer and dryer and a few shelves.  But it still has less clean laundry in it than the garbage people's trash heap.

[Ohwell]

2 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

So what cutesy name would the shippers end up giving it? DumpGrime? NotWinslow? RumpsterDick?

Grump

[walnutqueen]

26 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

If it makes you feel any better, it's actually a glorified half bath with a washer and dryer and a few shelves.  But it still has less clean laundry in it than the garbage people's trash heap.

OK, now I have shelf envy.  You cannot win this fight.  Unless you throw down with some clipped unintelligible verses and tragic trashpile bangs.  :-)

[paigow]

15 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

OK, now I have shelf envy.  You cannot win this fight.  Unless you throw down with some clipped unintelligible verses and tragic trashpile bangs.  :-)

"Wash Day. Nothing Clean."

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Rick's idea of seduction with Jadis:  "I'm here to give you the biggest gun I got.  The other python.  Say yes."

Oh, and for a 'ship name', have to go with MonosyllabicThang.

[mightysparrow]

I'm really surprised that people saw chemistry between Dumpster Diva and Rick because I thought it was just me searching for crumbs because I hate Richonne so much.  It seemed so obvious that i wondered what Gimple was playing at.  Rick seems very into Dumpster Diva and her crew even though I'm hard pressed to see what they have to offer.  They don't seem like the type that any sane person would depend on in a battle.  But Rick seems willing to give this chick ANYTHING she wants.  My spidey senses are tingling, even though I know it's probably nothing at all.

[Nashville]

On 3/21/2017 at 10:23 PM, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Rick's idea of seduction with Jadis:  "I'm here to give you the biggest gun I got.  The other python.  Say yes."

Oh, and for a 'ship name', have to go with MonosyllabicThang.

Too many syllables.  How about "Jadick"?  ;>

[AwesomO4000]

On 3/14/2017 at 2:57 PM, nodorothyparker said:

The non-terrible CGI parts of it did seem to have more clean laundry laying around in it than my actual laundry room.

I took this over to the "Suburban Location Scouting" thread. That seemed like the place that fit the best.

[Ohwell]

Quote

The only love-triangle I want to see is Ezekiel and Morgan fighting over who gets to be Michonne's man.

That would be really interesting because I think either guy would be heads and shoulders above Rick.  

Ezekiel has those beautiful eyes but the only drawback for me is those dreaded dreadlocks, but since Michonne has them as well, they'd at least have that in comon, lol.  Conversely, I've often wondered how Morgan kept his hair so neatly trimmed in the ZA.  But seriously, I wouldn't mind seeing her with either one.   

[CletusMusashi]

I'm for Zechonne. Her ability to explain things in three or four words would be a fun contrast to him. Plus she loves kittycats, her weapon of choice would fit well into his Ambiguously Medievalish motif, and, come on, don't you want to see a sword-wielding baby with enormous dreadlocks? It could ride Shiva like a horsey.

[tricknasty]

On 12/6/2016 at 5:33 PM, mightysparrow said:

You are preaching the gospel right here.  Michonne has been getting the short end of the stick for ages, really ever since season 4.  It's a disgrace. 

We're constantly told that the comics are the sacred word.  Well, Michonne is one of THE iconic characters in the comics.  Yet she's basically playing wallpaper on the tv show, while her comic story line is parceled out to other characters (including Gimple's pet).  I'm not surprised that Gimple doesn't care about wasting an actor as strong as Danai.  He has a tendency to ignore good actors, especially ones with a high melanin content.  Gimple has essentially hired the cast of 'The Wire' and has them doing NOTHING. 

Now Michonne is stuck playing a second-rate Andrea.  But Sasha already has the sharpshooter role and it's been established that Michonne can't shoot for shit.  So all Michonne gets to do is fuck Rick.  Talk about getting the short end of the stick!

Now Now. No need for name calling. I'm sure Rick is good in the sack. LOL!

[OoohMaggie]

Why does stroppy Saviour refer to Carol’s gun as a Roscoe?

[AngelaHunter]

2 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Speaking of pants, I notice that all the women are wearing the same type of skinny jeans--no boot cuts or straight legs or flares. 

I've long puzzled over the fact that the women who have good figures and/or bodacious booties must - unlike any of the men - wear super-tight pants which would be a hellish garments in an apolcalypse, and usually tanktops that expose a lot of cleavage, which no man on this show is allowed to notice. Rosita? Just put in her in panty hose or tights, ffs. She must be raiding the children's dept. to find any pants as skin-hugging as those she wears. In Kirkman's World, women must be sex objects even if no one is allowed to remark on that and not much has changed since the original Star Trek or Charlie's Angels.

[mightysparrow]

2 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I've long puzzled over the fact that the women who have good figures and/or bodacious booties must - unlike any of the men - wear super-tight pants which would be a hellish garments in an apolcalypse, and usually tanktops that expose a lot of cleavage, which no man on this show is allowed to notice. Rosita? Just put in her in panty hose or tights, ffs. She must be raiding the children's dept. to find any pants as skin-hugging as those she wears. In Kirkman's World, women must be sex objects even if no one is allowed to remark on that and not much has changed since the original Star Trek or Charlie's Angels.

You make a good point.  Women (at least the ones under 40) are required to dress provocatively.  Michonne has the best ass in the ZA and she wears the tightest pants.  Every man who has ever done a scene with Danai has been caught staring at her behind.  And yet we're supposed to believe that not one of those men ever made a pass at her until Rick Grimes came along.  Bullshit.  Fucking Hershel flirted with Michonne.  And Merle would have turned in his KKK membership card if Michonne gave him a second look.  In the comics, Michonne had a very active sex life.   But it looked like Gimple was scared of a sexually active Michonne. 

For the most part, it's the MEN who make the decisions about relationships in the ZA.  The only woman who gets to decide who she sleeps with is Carol and I think that has everything to do with McBride's fan-base.  Carol has become some sort of mascot for middle-aged women and both the show and the actor have benefited.  So Carol gets to fuck who she wants, when she wants.  No other woman is allowed that kind of freedom.  Andrea was sexually active and everyone and their cat called her a whore. 

Sex on TWD has been trapped in Robert Kirkman's teenage boy view of the world.  Gimple shared the same perspective.  I'm curious to see if things change now that a woman is show-runner.  Will every woman get to make their own sexual decisions?  Or just Carol, still.

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, mightysparrow said:

In the comics, Michonne had a very active sex life.   But it looked like Gimple was scared of a sexually active Michonne. 

Wow, I never knew that because I never read the comics.

Interesting.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, mightysparrow said:

For the most part, it's the MEN who make the decisions about relationships in the ZA. 

But yet, unless it's implied they're having sex, no man on this show has ever come on to any of the women, who were all attractive and mostly skimpily dressed. Lucky there's no clouds of mosquitos in the south! They treat them like "one of the boys" for the most part, with nary even a double entendre . As if. Even those who are gettin' it on have zero chemistry, like Glenn/Maggie and Rick/Michonne. Best part was having two pretty, bright, competant and capable young women - Sasha and Rosita(who first appeared dressed like some sweaty teenager's wet dream) - fighting and snarking over Abraham, of all people. I guess Rosita never found out he referred to her as "some ass". And yes, all the women sit like 1950-era high schools girls waiting to be chosen at a dance.

 

1 hour ago, mightysparrow said:

The only woman who gets to decide who she sleeps with is Carol

Even there, I don't recall seeing her engaged in anything more daring than a chaste kiss, and probably never will. Maybe the idea of a woman pushing 50 being sexual freaks Kirkman out.

The only truly passionate and heated union I remember seeing on this show was between Andrea and the Gov, and of course a woman displaying that kind of sexual aggression and really enjoying it is a super-naughtiness that couldn't go unpunished.

[OoohMaggie]

11 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

The only woman who gets to decide who she sleeps with is Carol and I think that has everything to do with McBride's fan-base.

Only three-ish years ago Carol was a battered submissive, existing under the rule of louse Ed, she is still playing that story out and her journey has been one of the great things about the show. How cruel can the show be? Will Kang kill the King?

[maystone]

On 10/20/2018 at 7:28 AM, OoohMaggie said:

Why does stroppy Saviour refer to Carol’s gun as a Roscoe?

Roscoe is really old slang for a handgun.  I mean like Mickey Spillane old.

17 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

For the most part, it's the MEN who make the decisions about relationships in the ZA.  The only woman who gets to decide who she sleeps with is Carol and I think that has everything to do with McBride's fan-base.  Carol has become some sort of mascot for middle-aged women and both the show and the actor have benefited.  So Carol gets to fuck who she wants, when she wants.  No other woman is allowed that kind of freedom.  Andrea was sexually active and everyone and their cat called her a whore. 

Sex on TWD has been trapped in Robert Kirkman's teenage boy view of the world.  Gimple shared the same perspective.  I'm curious to see if things change now that a woman is show-runner.  Will every woman get to make their own sexual decisions?  Or just Carol, still.

Maggie pretty much told Glenn that they were going to have sex :) Rosita had a number of men in her past, and according to her convo with Sasha, she was there for the sex and the survival skills she got from them.  Then of course there are the lesbian relationships where it's always a woman making the first move. Ha! But I get what you mean; they have been a pretty conventional group, all things considered.  There seems to be more smoochiness happening with Kang than in previous seasons, so at least it's a start.