S04.E06: Lost Souls

[kismet]

No wonder they don't get curtains... what could match that fugly thing??

[statsgirl]

Random thoughts:

 

If "He who owns the bottle rules the lair" then Diggle has become the new leader of the Team.  It's now his bourbon rather than Oliver's vodka.  Also I laughed at the line "It'll put hair on your chest" considering that so many men remove their chest hair.  I suspect SA does.

 

"Chatty  Cathy"  I'd forgotten I wanted one so badly as a child but we couldn't afford it.

 

There was a lot of nice directing shots here.  The trail of discarded candy wrappers on the floor leading to Felicity guzzling energy and red licorice trying to find Ray ("Oh that's on Wednesday."  "It is Wednesday.").   The cuts from the bird heiroglyph in the cave to the wooden canary in Laurel's apartment and later the cut from the people lined up on the beach to the chessmen in the present.

 

It says something about the people Oliver grew up with if he didn't know how to handle Felicity going "neurotic" about finishing her project to find Ray.  This is behaviour is SOP for many people working on projects, and Felicity knew exactly how to handle Ray when he was doing the same thing.

 

That said, how would Oliver have felt if Felicity had called in Moira when he was trying to focus on finding a criminal?

 

The Olicity theme returns in their last scene. Thank you, Blake Neely.

 

Laurel was still in denial about Sara ("Sara's fine) when they went to Kord Industries but she did hesitate after Sara beat up the guard so that's progress.

We have a general location for the show:  "Before the city went to crap, it was touted as the most secure building on the west coast."

Felicity said "I want to thank you for saving Ray and being so understanding in the midst of my minifreakout."  It's not an "I'm sorry" apology, but it is an "I was wrong" one.

Why did Felicity's mom introduce herself to Quentin was "Dawn"?

 

A great line: "Just because I understand science doesn't mean I'm not bored by it."
\

5. I realize I'm the only person on this forum who would put this under "bad things," but where's Malcolm? He's only appeared in one out of six episodes so far? What is this?

I like Malcolm/John Barrowman, I really do.  But I also like him better in the occasional episode that makes sense than if they make everyone stupid and twist them out of shape to find a reason to put him in the episode.

 

It was more just to double check an impression I had.  A lot of the Oliver/Felicity comedy this season has reminded me of the screwball comedies of the 1930s, with Felicity's rapid fire delivery and Oliver's straight man delivery.  It first hit me in the scene where Oliver invites Lance into the lair, and I just think it has developed.  This idea is more about my own weird enthusiasms than anything that will add to the understanding about the show., and I wanted to rewatch the scene to see if my initial impression held up.  

You're right. It's ironic that they kept promoting Ray/Felicity as great screwball comedy when it was more like the Three Stooges.  Oliver and Felicity, from the moment she cocked her head at his "I spilled a latte on it" has always been a better take on 30s comedy.

 

And S1 too. It reminded me of infiltrating Merlyn Global. [Was it Global? I forget.] Every time the mission needs strategic planning, and them being smart about infiltrating some place they shouldn't be, I find the action scenes much more interesting -- especially when it's this kind of spy film stuff when there's a planned sequence of events that the team needs to go through step by step. This is my favorite kind of action, because it gives meaning to the stunts within the narrative.

Good point. It requires creativity and writing skills (humour and action) and generally tends to incorporate more of the cast than just a collection of masks.  (Can you tell I'm not looking forward to the crossover?)

[morakot]

LL lit the candles to help Thea feel at home. After all, the loft she left had a ginormous fireplace burning day and night.

[Chaser]

Donna and Quentin got the light treatment.

[AyChihuahua]

Merlyn has a confrontation with DD in 4.10, right?

 Is there any possibility it's re Felicity?  I think MM kind of likes her.  I mean hey, he'd feed her to the wolves to save his favorite cashmere sweater, but that's MM's version of liking someone.

Edited November 13, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[slayer2]

Totally random, I really don't care for their comforter/duvet.

Who knows the real truth, but Caity Lotz unequivocally said that was not the case.  She said she had no conversations at all about coming back when they decided to kill Sara.  And back then they were not developing LoT, they were developing the ATOM show, which the network had no interest in picking up.

 

 

Eeek! I stand corrected, and horrified. They really are THAT dumb.

[dtissagirl]

I've been thinking about the two jabs Felicity took at Oliver's lack of tech skills, and it really highlights how Arrow's writing kinda lacks a whole lot of finesse in setting up their narrative hooks for Oliver to *think* about stuff. It's kinda crazy, really --

 

The two things Felicity says to Oliver -- asking Oliver has he learned how to code, and is he gonna build the doohickey [thanks for the technical term, Curtis] -- are things that Palmer has in common with Felicity. Those weren't random lines -- Felicity says those things so that insecurity can hit Oliver upside the head. It all leads to Oliver having trouble with the camera feeds, and then telling Diggle "it takes me ten minutes to log into this thing; Felicity does it in two seconds, and Ray probably invented it". He's bad at all things computer Felicity excels at, and Palmer builds all sorts of things that he can't. All call backs to those things Felicity said.

 

And by this point, I'm used to Arrow doing this -- they like their repetition of dialogue [this episode had A LOT of repeated lines], and they like to do that thing wherein Oliver only ever contemplates something in-depth if someone else says something to him about it. He only learns something when he's told. Like he can't reflect on anything unless it had to activate his auditory system first. Which in turns makes a lot of the dialogue anvilistic, because someone has to say something -- oftentimes super obvious stuff too -- that is gonna be either repeated verbatim, or pondered by Oliver later on.

 

I guess my point is -- he could have reached the same point where insecurity starts to creep up without Felicity having taken pot shots at him first, but this is how they write OLIVER over and over again -- he needs to be jumpstarted for some bizarre reason.

Edited November 13, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Cthulhudrew]

I saw someone speculate at one point that all of this Legends setup was the reason they've been doing more of these character moments; because they're kind of treading water until that happens and they can really jump into Arrow's own season plot.

 

Whether that's it or not, I don't much care, because to me it's working. While there have been a few missteps and awkward moments of PIS, for the most part, I feel like we've finally got character development I don't think I've seen in this show since maybe season 2 (but more likely season 1); that they are allowing them to breathe, and actually be characters. I'm loving it. Good job, Arrow scribes!

[SmallScreenDiva]

The Olicity theme returns in their last scene. Thank you, Blake Neely.

 

Why did Felicity's mom introduce herself to Quentin was "Dawn"?

 

The Olicity theme played during their table scene, when Oliver was talking to Digg, during Donna and Felicity's scene and the final scene. Basically all the major Olicity scenes.

 

I heard "Donna" and my closed captioning also said "Donna." 

 

OK, my random thoughts after rewatch: I think it was good for Oliver and Felicity to hear about their relationship from people close to them. Oliver needed to hear somebody else say Felicity chose him. He knew that. But it helped for his feelings to be validated in a way. Same with Felicity. She needed to be reminded that she's not the only person "lost" in the person she loves. She needed to hear that Oliver was lost in her, too. 

 

Oliver's poor excuses continue, with his "Dr. Lance ramble." Felicity certainly didn't help by setting up asking about a doctor's appointment.

 

Damien Darhk sure loves his puns, word play: "Don't make empty threats. It's small." LOL!

 

Felicity has only one pair of pajamas. The sama nesting doll pajamas we've seen since season 2.

 

Oh, and when I heard they were building them a bedroom set I was really hoping for an en suite bathroom so Oliver can wander in just wearing a towel *shrugs*

[kismet]

Yea I guess I didn't put it together that that was the bedroom set.... that really is disappointing...

[EmeraldArcher]

Oh, and when I heard they were building them a bedroom set I was really hoping for an en suite bathroom so Oliver can wander in just wearing a towel *shrugs*

So greedy!! Can't you be content with barefoot Oliver lounging shirtless on the bed with sweatpants slung deliciously low on his hips pre-straddle?! ;-)

Ok, so that S1 scene of Oliver wearing a towel while checking himself out in a mirror while I check him out is one of my favorite things ever!

[SmallScreenDiva]

So greedy!! Can't you be content with barefoot Oliver lounging shirtless on the bed with sweatpants slung deliciously low on his hips pre-straddle?! ;-)

Ok, so that S1 scene of Oliver wearing a towel while checking himself out in a mirror while I check him out is one of my favorite things ever!

 

When it comes to Oliver and Felicity, I'm extremely greedy. And yes, a repeat of that S1 scene is exactly what I had in mind with extra Felicity coming up behind him and feeling him up.

[calliope1975]

Felicity has only one pair of pajamas. The sama nesting doll pajamas we've seen since season 2.

 

Oh, and when I heard they were building them a bedroom set I was really hoping for an en suite bathroom so Oliver can wander in just wearing a towel *shrugs*

 

It's not like she's wearing her PJs that often anyway. :D

 

Bite your tongue. Oliver can wander around in a towel without a bathroom set. Wander in into the dining area. Wander into the living room area. Hang out in his campaign office in a towel. I think that's perfectly plausible and seems logical to me. 

[AyChihuahua]

So greedy!! Can't you be content with barefoot Oliver lounging shirtless on the bed with sweatpants slung deliciously low on his hips pre-straddle?! ;-)

Ok, so that S1 scene of Oliver wearing a towel while checking himself out in a mirror while I check him out is one of my favorite things ever!

Yeah, there was at least once, I think twice, in which he wandered about wet and steamy, wearing just a towel.  It was entirely fantastic.

 

Re what dtissagirl said, Oliver's need for someone to say something to him, preferably in a very fortune cookie fashion, for him to active the gray matter, bugs the ever-loving crap out of me.  At least THIS TIME it was worthwhile, unlike the majority of pseudo-philosophical horsecrap he has immediately adopted as his worldview in the past.

[Princess Vanellope]

I literally did not notice the comforter. Like at all. My eyes were drawn to the hot shirtless guy. Priorities. :P

[AyChihuahua]

I literally did not notice the comforter. Like at all. My eyes were drawn to the hot shirtless guy. Priorities. :P

It was a really ugly comforter, damnit!

[lemotomato]

It was a really ugly comforter, damnit!

They were kissing. With tongue. There was also straddling. The brain can only process so much detail at once. 

[Princess Vanellope]

It was a really ugly comforter, damnit!

I was too busy imagining using his abs as a plate. :P

I should be ashamed of myself...but I'm just not.

[kismet]

They were kissing. With tongue. There was also straddling. The brain can only process so much detail at once. 

Yes, I agree. For me, it's fugliness has gained life do to gifs. I love the gifs, but that comforter is an eyesore.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Speaking of ugly things, Oliver should never be allowed to wear that plaid shirt ever again. The cut just doesn't suit him. It makes him look boxy and gives him a wide middle, which is INSANE! 

 

 

Edited to add a "better" bad photo of the shirt:

 

Edited November 13, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[Chaser]

Well it's official. He should just never wear shirts.

[yellowfred]

So, I'm not sure I see the logic in Sara going to Central City to deal with her whole "I can't stop killing people" thing.  Like, there are people in Central City.  Lots of them, from what I understand.

 

I think I'm still working on accepting the fact that, as far as the writers seem to be concerned, Sara is now a Legends character, which means we have to wait for that show to really get into a lot of her potential storylines.  At the very least, I hoped that we'd get some closure on her relationships with the Arrow crew before she left, so it bothers me imensely that we didn't get more of her interactions with people other than Laurel. 

 

That being said, I actually liked their scenes, for the most part.  The two of them joking about having awful parents did more to sell their sisterly relationship, for me, than anything we've seen in the past season and a half.  Also, since I knew we were gonna get Sara thanking Laurel in some capacity, I think the way they framed it was smart:  she now has this really awful thing to deal with and she doesn't know how she's gonna do it, but being alive also means that she has the chance to figure it out.

[Cthulhudrew]

So, I'm not sure I see the logic in Sara going to Central City to deal with her whole "I can't stop killing people" thing.  Like, there are people in Central City.  Lots of them, from what I understand.

 

Yes, but they have a friendly, speedster hero that can stop her murderous assaults nearly before they begin? :p

[bijoux]

Oliver's poor excuses continue, with his "Dr. Lance ramble." Felicity certainly didn't help by setting up asking about a doctor's appointment.

 

  

Poor guy. And she set him up to do it in company.

I noticed the same thing about Felicity's pyjama pants, but then @calliope1975 said this and it makes sense:

It's not like she's wearing her PJs that often anyway. :D

 

Bite your tongue. Oliver can wander around in a towel without a bathroom set. Wander in into the dining area. Wander into the living room area. Hang out in his campaign office in a towel. I think that's perfectly plausible and seems logical to me.

Well, I still think Alex will suggest a shirtless calender to draw in voters. If he knows what he's doing.

[AudienceofOne]

So apparently, my post got eaten even though people liked and quoted it. Go figure.

 

Main points:

 

1. I liked this episode

2. Felicity is NOT a bitch

3. I know there's a spinoff coming but killing Sara off, bringing her back and then dispatching her quickly was odd. Especialy when there was no emotional resonance to her being alive again.

4. But this is season is far superior to last season

[looptab]

So, I'm not sure I see the logic in Sara going to Central City to deal with her whole "I can't stop killing people" thing.  Like, there are people in Central City.  Lots of them, from what I understand.

 

I think I'm still working on accepting the fact that, as far as the writers seem to be concerned, Sara is now a Legends character, which means we have to wait for that show to really get into a lot of her potential storylines.  At the very least, I hoped that we'd get some closure on her relationships with the Arrow crew before she left, so it bothers me imensely that we didn't get more of her interactions with people other than Laurel. 

 

I can't make any sense of that either. Like, the logical thing IMO would be, let me stay here close to my friends and family who know my whole story and could be able to help me fight this urge. Her whole resolution, including painting it like she has to take a different approach to the bloodlust from Thea's, when it's not even clear what Thea's is, is just nonsense.

And yes, add me to those disappointed in not seeing any interaction with the other characters apart from Laurel. I'll just have to assume it all happened offscreen, but is sad that they glossed over it.

Edited November 13, 2015 by looptab

[BkWurm1]

My first assumption is Sara is getting away from the team and missions. But that doesn't explain how she gets caught up in LoT.

[KirkB]

It seems to me that Thea and Sara's bloodlust issues are largely based on being worked up and angry. They start fighting and can't stop themselves. As long as she is hanging around Oliver and company and regularly getting into fights she is more likely to go off and start trying to kill people. In Central City, presumably, she won't be fighting too much so it shouldn't be too much of an issue, unless of course she gets stuck in traffic or something particularly stressful. 

[tv echo]

My first assumption is Sara is getting away from the team and missions. But that doesn't explain how she gets caught up in LoT.

 

According to the EW and ComicBookResources articles (posted in the Mind Your Surroundings thread), Sara is looking for a purpose for her life and that's what Rip Hunter offers her, and Sara is also struggling to reclaim her humanity which had been stripped from her.

Edited November 13, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Some additional thoughts - parts of this episode seemed specially designed to rebut past or anticipated criticisms of the show...

 

1.  Past Criticism:  Felicity gave up her job and her life for a man (when she went away with Oliver at the end of S3).
EPs' Rebuttal:  Felicity did that because for the first time in her life, she was so in love with a guy that she lost herself in him.  However, she now realizes that, as well as the fact that it's reciprocal on Oliver's part, and that it's part of finding a balance as a couple. (Translation: It was atypical behavior on the part of Felicity because of the special-ness of her relationship with Oliver and not a recurring characteristic.)

 

2.  Past Criticism:  Oliver treated his team badly and did terrible things last season.
EPs' Rebuttal:  Oliver is the most mature-acting person on Team Arrow this season, even when he's getting dumped on by Diggle, Quentin, Thea, Laurel and Felicity.  (Translation: All heroes can be flawed human beings.)

 

3.  Past Criticism:  Ray Palmer in his Atom suit is just a poor copy of Iron Man.
EPs' Rebuttal:  As mentioned in my review above, after Ray is returned to life-size, Felicity reports that he is fine "except for a noticeable iron deficiency."  (Translation:  Ray is not Iron Man.)

 

4.  Past Criticism:  Diggle needs a code name out in the field and his new helmet makes him look like Magneto.
EPs' Rebuttal:  Felicity gives him the code name "Spartan" because TA was accompanied by a 'guest', Curtis Holt, on their mission.  (Translation: Diggle is not Magneto, he is now Spartan.)

 

5.  Anticipated Criticism:  Laurel acted selfishly and recklessly in resurrecting Sara through the LP despite everyone else's objections.
EPs' Rebuttal:  Sara tells Laurel, "I owe you everything. You gave me the greatest gift that anyone ever could. You gave me a second chance, and the ability to start over."  (Translation: Laurel was right, and everyone else was wrong.)

Edited November 13, 2015 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

According to the EW and ComicBookResources articles (posted in the Mind Your Surroundings thread), Sara is looking for a purpose for her life and that's what Rip Hunter offers her, and Sara is also struggling to reclaim her humanity which had been stripped from her.

 

So Sara thanked Laurel for giving her a second chance to start over, but she lost her humanity and has no purpose for living. On top of only feeling better when she kills a bunch of people. Why would you thank anyone for giving you that?

Edited November 13, 2015 by Sakura12

[AyChihuahua]

So apparently, my post got eaten even though people liked and quoted it. Go figure.

 

Main points:

 

1. I liked this episode

2. Felicity is NOT a bitch

3. I know there's a spinoff coming but killing Sara off, bringing her back and then dispatching her quickly was odd. Especialy when there was no emotional resonance to her being alive again.

4. But this is season is far superior to last season

For me, Felicity was bitchy in this episode.  And again, people are actually allowed to have differing opinions.  Not sure why that is controversial.

[kismet]

Some additional thoughts - parts of this episode seemed specially designed to rebut past or anticipated criticisms of the show...

 

1.  Past Criticism:  Felicity gave up her job and her life for a man (when she went away with Oliver at the end of S3).EPs' Rebuttal:  Felicity did that because for the first time in her life, she was so in love with a guy that she lost herself in him.  However, she now realizes that, as well as the fact that it's reciprocal on Oliver's part, and that it's part of finding a balance as a couple. (Translation: It was atypical behavior on the part of Felicity because of the special-ness of her relationship with Oliver and not a recurring characteristic.)

 

2.  Past Criticism:  Oliver treated his team badly and did terrible things last season.EPs' Rebuttal:  Oliver is the most mature-acting person on Team Arrow this season, even when he's getting dumped on by Diggle, Quentin, Thea, Laurel and Felicity.  (Translation: All heroes can be flawed human beings.)

 

3.  Past Criticism:  Ray Palmer in his Atom suit is just a poor copy of Iron Man.EPs' Rebuttal:  As mentioned in my review above, after Ray is returned to life-size, Felicity reports that he is fine "except for a noticeable iron deficiency."  (Translation:  Ray is not Iron Man.)

 

4.  Past Criticism:  Diggle needs a code name out in the field and his new helmet makes him look like Magneto.EPs' Rebuttal:  Felicity gives him the code name "Spartan" because TA was accompanied by a 'guest', Curtis Holt, on their mission.  (Translation: Diggle is not Magneto, he is now Spartan.)

 

5.  Anticipated Criticism:  Laurel acted selfishly and recklessly in resurrecting Sara through the LP despite everyone else's objections.EPs' Rebuttal:  Sara tells Laurel, "I owe you everything. You gave me the greatest gift that anyone ever could. You gave me a second chance, and the ability to start over."  (Translation: Laurel was right, and everyone else was wrong.)

Astute analysis :)

#1 was absolutely needed to get O/F back on the right track. The scales had become a little unbalanced. Now we are back on track for a proposal that more people can support.

#2- Thank goodness for OQs emotional growth and maturity. Really loving how its on display, cuz his team treats him badly sometimes.

#3&4- Haha :) the show can be cheeky sometimes.

#5- LL was never really wrong in wanting to bring her sister back. That was a human thing to want. How she handled it from beginning to end was all wrong. But the show will never address it more than it did. Also think OQ & SL had the healthiest response to it. OQ provided a means to fix it and emotional support to help stabilize situation. And SL thanked her and peaced out to move away from her. Both very wise decisions.

[tv echo]

Incidentally, here's a pic of a Spartan helmet...

 

http://www.amazon.com/SIMPLE-HANDTOOLED-HANDCRAFTED-ANTIQUE-SPARTAN/dp/B008FJ0OLS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447426719&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=spartan+helmet&psc=1

[Sakura12]

Diggle is wearing a Magneto Halloween mask, not a helmet. A helmet covers the back of your head. 

[Delphi]

Diggle is wearing a Magneto Halloween mask, not a helmet. A helmet covers the back of your head.

Which would be helpful with arrows and bullets flying every which way.

[Angel12d]

That being said, I actually liked their scenes, for the most part.  The two of them joking about having awful parents did more to sell their sisterly relationship, for me, than anything we've seen in the past season and a half.  Also, since I knew we were gonna get Sara thanking Laurel in some capacity, I think the way they framed it was smart:  she now has this really awful thing to deal with and she doesn't know how she's gonna do it, but being alive also means that she has the chance to figure it out.

 

Yeah, I didn't mind the Laurel/Sara scenes and their goodbye was pretty touching. And even though I really don't like how Laurel is held as the best person EVA for resurrecting Sara and she'll suffer no consequences for it, I was okay with Sara thanking her this way, for the most part. I would have hated if Sara had said how amazing she was as Black Canary though. That would have been too forced and heavy handed for me personally. So I'm glad they handled it the way they did. It was making the best of what they had tbh.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Angel12d

[Sakura12]

I have to take that back after looking it up, the Magneto Halloween helmet does cover the back of the head. Diggle's is more like those plastic masks that only cover your face with a velcro strap in the back. 

[statsgirl]

I just assumed that Sara went to Central City to visit her mother.  (And to set up the crossover pilot but whatever.)  Maybe it's the magical healing of Mother, or maybe it's because it's a place where she won't have to fight people and, as others have noted, she thinks she loses control only during the fights.

 

I wish Diggle's helmet was more like that Spartan helmet.  It's way cooler.

 

Which would be helpful with arrows and bullets flying every which way.

This is something that doesn't seem to concern the writers. Whereas Oliver's bare arms bug me every time I see them.

 

 

3.  Past Criticism:  Ray Palmer in his Atom suit is just a poor copy of Iron Man.

EPs' Rebuttal:  As mentioned in my review above, after Ray is returned to life-size, Felicity reports that he is fine "except for a noticeable iron deficiency."  (Translation:  Ray is not Iron Man.)

I can't believe I missed that!  it's actually kind of clever on their part.

 

Great points, tv echo.

[Moya the Leviathan]

NO!  By the time Oliver and Felicity were, you know, done, those candles were ALL BURNED DOWN.  DO NOT TELL ME OTHERWISE!  (Hey, I refuse to watch the scene because of my S3 loathing, but I can still appreciate its existence.)

 

For science, AyChihuahua, for science!  For truth and justice in posting!  Ethically, you have no choice but to rewatch that scene.  I know it hurts, but take one for the team.  

[EmeraldArcher]

For science, AyChihuahua, for science!  For truth and justice in posting!  Ethically, you have no choice but to rewatch that scene.  I know it hurts, but take one for the team.  

Moya the Leviathan, you're barking up the wrong tree with AyChihuahua! (pun intended)  She hasn't ever watched the scene due to ethical reasons.  Therefore, it's up to you to re-watch for science--please make sure that you re-watch as many times as it takes to validate your findings! ;-)

 

As for me, I think I need to re-watch the 406 lair scene with Oliver and Diggle.  When Digg walks away, there appears to be some tiny little something on his bottom.  I keep re-watching, alternating between normal pace, slow-mo, and pause.  Hmmmm.  ;-)

[Happy Harpy]

3.  Past Criticism:  Ray Palmer in his Atom suit is just a poor copy of Iron Man.

EPs' Rebuttal:  As mentioned in my review above, after Ray is returned to life-size, Felicity reports that he is fine "except for a noticeable iron deficiency."  (Translation:  Ray is not Iron Man.)

Yes! I chuckled at the "iron deficiency", in some oh-they-didn't way. After the peacock feather in 4x05, it seems that the Snark is strong in one of the writers.

 

But for me, Ray is still a Poor Man's Ironman and Laurel is still wrong. I hope that at least, some of the points you mention will be adressed on the long term because otherwise, the show will fall back in one of its recurring flaws imo: Lampshading criticism, instead of actually solving the issue.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[AyChihuahua]

Moya the Leviathan, you're barking up the wrong tree with AyChihuahua! (pun intended)  She hasn't ever watched the scene due to ethical reasons.  Therefore, it's up to you to re-watch for science--please make sure that you re-watch as many times as it takes to validate your findings! ;-)

You have to admire my resolve.  I've seen gifs (didn't search, but they're pretty unavoidable on Tumblr), and it looks like a great scene.  Which would do nothing but fan the flames of my S3 RAGE, as does every single gif/still of Oliver in the stupid LOA outfit (that I maintain made SA look kind of chunky) and the scenes on the plane and the woman you love scene, etc.  I've still never watched any episodes from 3.10-3.22, and I don't plan ever to change that.

[kismet]

You have to admire my resolve.  I've seen gifs (didn't search, but they're pretty unavoidable on Tumblr), and it looks like a great scene.  Which would do nothing but fan the flames of my S3 RAGE, as does every single gif/still of Oliver in the stupid LOA outfit (that I maintain made SA look kind of chunky) and the scenes on the plane and the woman you love scene, etc.  I've still never watched any episodes from 3.10-3.22, and I don't plan ever to change that.

He couldn't look any more chunky than he does in his new GA Turtle costume. Or even that ill fitting white shirt this episode.

[AyChihuahua]

He couldn't look any more chunky than he does in his new GA Turtle costume. Or even that ill fitting white shirt this episode.

I agree on both.  The new outfit also makes him look pretty neckless.  And the shoulder things are still totally stupid.

 

SA is basically kind of thick.  I don't mean that as a euphemism for chunky, as he's obviously not chunky.  He's big and bulky and has thick thighs.  All of which are excellent for his role, but sometimes it can probably make it a bit more difficult to dress him. 

Edited November 13, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[statsgirl]

A mesomorph (athletically built with well developed muscles), if you're looking at body types  as compared to an ectomorph (thin,lightly muscled like Karl Yune who looked good in the LoA outfit) or an endomorph (round and soft).

 

Although it may also be the ten pounds the camera adds.

Edited November 13, 2015 by statsgirl

[AyChihuahua]

A mesomorph (athletically built with well developed muscles), if you're looking at body types  as compared to an ectomorph (thin,lightly muscled like Karl Yune who looked good in the LoA outfit) or an endomorph (round and soft).

 

Although it may also be the ten pounds the camera adds.

I really tried to be very clear that I do not actually think he's chunky.  He's just big enough that they should pay more attention to his wardrobe.  He has the perfect body type for his character.

[Delphi]

It's a true enough thing for everyone. Dress for your body type. If you don't you look boxy or too round or bloated.

http://www.fashionbeans.com/2015/athletic-muscular-mens-style-fit-guide/

This is a good article on dressing if you have a build like Stephen's. The costumers follow none of these rules.

[arjumand]

That said, how would Oliver have felt if Felicity had called in Moira when he was trying to focus on finding a criminal?

 

 

The thing is, in the previous episode, Oliver talked about how he missed his parents every single day - it sounded like Felicity understood what he was feeling, but going by her reaction in this episode, she really didn't.

 

See, I saw him calling and talking to Donna as a sort of nostalgia for him - he no longer has parents to confide in, so he can't really understand why Felicity, whose mother is still alive, doesn't value that fact. It doesn't matter whether he would have appreciated her doing something similar in the past - the fact is that now he'd do (almost) anything to get that time back, and he might feel like Felicity doesn't understand how that feels. In a "you don't know what you've got, till it's gone" way.

 

Or maybe it's just me - I've always disliked how the show has framed Felicity and Donna's relationship. And maybe because I'm Donna's age (though I don't have kids), but I felt a lot of sympathy for her this episode. And I also felt like I've overestimated Felicity's intelligence - seriously, it never occurred to her, not even once, in the years since, that her cocktail waitress single mom might not have been able to afford space camp? My parents didn't have a lot of money when I was growing up, and believe me, you know.

 

And I'm sorry, but I had no sympathy for Felicity's problem this episode.

 

These are all problems with the writing, though. It was like - they have to fight this episode! Let's create some conflict!

[Angel12d]

Or maybe it's just me - I've always disliked how the show has framed Felicity and Donna's relationship. And maybe because I'm Donna's age (though I don't have kids), but I felt a lot of sympathy for her this episode. And I also felt like I've overestimated Felicity's intelligence - seriously, it never occurred to her, not even once, in the years since, that her cocktail waitress single mom might not have been able to afford space camp? My parents didn't have a lot of money when I was growing up, and believe me, you know.

 

I wouldn't mind a future episode where Felicity is pleased to see her mom, I must admit. I do realize why she was the last person she wanted to see in this episode though. She felt like she didn't have the time to spare. 

 

As for Felicity not realizing her mom couldn't afford space camp, I guess that seemed fine to me because she was only young and I don't think you think about where the money comes from when you're a kid. And I imagine that she probably forgot about it as she got older and so didn't really focus on it. At least that's my impression.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Angel12d