S04.E06: Lost Souls

[Delphi]

You don't think about where the money comes from if your family is comfortable. If you are on the lower end of middle class you most definitely tend to realize that your family isn't well off finacially. Especially if friends and relatives are clearly doing better than you.

[apinknightmare]

I wondered why Donna didn't just tell her she didn't have the money? Being embarrassed about it is kind of am strange unless she just didn't want Felicity to know they were struggling at that point. Seems like "it's impossible for you to go" would've been easier to accept than "I don't want you to," especially if she was that upset about it.

Edited November 13, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Angel12d]

I don't know. When I was very young my family certainly weren't 'comfortable' and yet I had no real idea until I was slightly older. I think it depends.

 

And in this context, I think Felicity probably had as much as her peers (she built her own computer at 7) but her mom just couldn't afford the big extras like space camp.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Angel12d

[wonderwall]

I have a feeling that Felicity going to space camp sort of coincided with her father leaving. So all of a sudden they don't have money anymore and Donna is struggling. She didn't want Felicity to feel worried on top of her grief of her father leaving which is why she made that story up? Maybe Donna felt like it's okay for Felicity to be disappointed in her mother than have her go through all of this adult stuff... 

 

Donna is an amazing mother :)

[tarotx]

I can see Donna rather have her daughter think she would miss her too much than know they couldn't afford it. You can be embrassed for yourself. And Felicity probably just never put herself in her mom's shoes. Donna was an always working over the top firecracker. I can imagine Felicity and her just clashed. Some personalities just do. It was hard for them both being so different even though deep down they have a lot of similarities.

[AyChihuahua]

The problem with Donna and Felicity, for me, is that we've pretty much only seen Donna be awesome and sweet and fun, so I don't get why Felicity is so distant with her.  I mean sure, she overshares and wants her daughter to show more skin, but geez, those are pretty minor flaws.  I think intellectually Felicity appreciates Donna and everything she's done for her, but she doesn't act like it.  So I agree, I would like to see Felicity actually happy to see her and especially spend real time with her in some future episode, because Donna is pretty amazing.

Edited November 13, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

The thing is, in the previous episode, Oliver talked about how he missed his parents every single day - it sounded like Felicity understood what he was feeling, but going by her reaction in this episode, she really didn't.

 

See, I saw him calling and talking to Donna as a sort of nostalgia for him - he no longer has parents to confide in, so he can't really understand why Felicity, whose mother is still alive, doesn't value that fact. It doesn't matter whether he would have appreciated her doing something similar in the past - the fact is that now he'd do (almost) anything to get that time back, and he might feel like Felicity doesn't understand how that feels. In a "you don't know what you've got, till it's gone" way.

I agree with this portion of your post. I can understand why OQ thought having Donna around would help and why FS thought it was the worst mistake ever. I also think Donna handled it well, so maybe she is just used to FS treating her like this. It feels like FS & DS have a shorthand with each other.  I completely understand why OQ would have turned to DS for some pointers on how to help FS and the whole situation snowballed. If Moira was around, he probably would have called her for advice, but she is not around. So he turned to the next best thing.

 

I can completely get behind the concept of "you don't know what you've got, till it's gone". I'm OQ's age and have experienced friends losing their parents to tragedies and they talk about the struggle not having a grown up parent to talk through stuff with. When you're younger you disregard a lot of what your parents say. As you get older you realize that there is wisdom to be shared from your parents or parental figures. For me personally, I have lost the ability to communicate with my Dad due to his illness for over 5yrs now and there isn't a day that goes by no matter how stressed out I am that I don't wish to be able to run something by him. Even if its bouncing off some tension. But a lot of people who have never had to experience that don't understand that. What FS does understand is having a father that was never there for her, so she learned to be self-reliant to a fault which is problematic in this episode because she shuts people out.

 

I also think FS is really closed minded to how her Mother might be able to help her. I often call my Mom just to vent, because she has to listen. She's invested in me, but not necessarily the situation. A few weeks ago my toilet broke and a literally called my Mom to bitch and when she tried to make me feel better I simply asked her to just listen to me. I didn't need to hear about the how and why things could've been better or worse, I just needed someone to listen to me vent. She complied and I got my 5 minutes of irrationally crying over a broken toilet out and felt better. Sometimes you just need people to listen to you. Sometimes all you need is to hear your Mom's voice, or someone who is not involved to just get an outside perspective. DS has been on the show 3 times now and each time she has been able to reach parts of FS that she often doesn't access herself. So perhaps FS will begin to learn that there may be other ways her Mom can help her that is not so obvious or anticipated.

 

FS shuts down and pushes people away which is not always healthy. I think she is learning to be willing to accept help which is what I think she learned in this episode. I also think she is learning more about her Mother which is nice to see. Perhaps they never had time to bond when she was growing up. On paper they do not have a lot in common. But when you peel away DS flashy exteriors, she has a lot to offer, which I think FS is beginning to see. Hopefully, the next time she comes to town - FS will be happy to see her. That being said, I think DS has been pretty understanding of her daughter's personality quarks, which bodes well for their relationship moving forward.

[SmallScreenDiva]

The thing is, in the previous episode, Oliver talked about how he missed his parents every single day - it sounded like Felicity understood what he was feeling, but going by her reaction in this episode, she really didn't.

 

See, I saw him calling and talking to Donna as a sort of nostalgia for him - he no longer has parents to confide in, so he can't really understand why Felicity, whose mother is still alive, doesn't value that fact. It doesn't matter whether he would have appreciated her doing something similar in the past - the fact is that now he'd do (almost) anything to get that time back, and he might feel like Felicity doesn't understand how that feels. In a "you don't know what you've got, till it's gone" way.

 

Or maybe it's just me - I've always disliked how the show has framed Felicity and Donna's relationship. And maybe because I'm Donna's age (though I don't have kids), but I felt a lot of sympathy for her this episode. And I also felt like I've overestimated Felicity's intelligence - seriously, it never occurred to her, not even once, in the years since, that her cocktail waitress single mom might not have been able to afford space camp? My parents didn't have a lot of money when I was growing up, and believe me, you know.

 

And I'm sorry, but I had no sympathy for Felicity's problem this episode.

 

These are all problems with the writing, though. It was like - they have to fight this episode! Let's create some conflict!

 

Felicity might understand what Oliver was feeling regarding Moira, but may not connect that with Donna specifically, given the kind of relationship she had with her mother for a long time. She might not see it as Oliver reaching out, searching for a mother figure.

 

As for the framing of Felicity and Donna's relationship, we're always seeing it during a time when Felicity is at her most-stressed. When we met Donna, that seemed like the first time she and Felicity had seen each other in years. But I thought the show had done a nice job actually showing the progress in their relationship. It's the timing of her visits that annoy Felicity, it's not Donna herself. I'm hoping next time when we see Donna it's because Felicity invited her to spend the holidays with her and Oliver. But I fear Arrow might go the route of having Lance invite her and they show up, surprising everyone at the campaign office party.

 

As for space camp, not knowing how old Felicity was during the time this happened, it's difficult to ascertain whether she should have known about her family's financial troubles or not. Because of his job, I didn't see my dad a lot when I was growing up. So I was basically raised by my mom. We were comfortable, but it wasn't until I reached my twenties that I realized just how much sacrifice my parents made to make sure I had what I needed, and a bit more. 

[statsgirl]

My parents couldn't afford to get me a Chatty Cathy doll or even a bag of potato chips when I desperately wanted to try one and see what they tasted like.  But we weren't as badly off as Cristela Alonzo, whose single mother raised four kids squatting in an abandoned diner without electricity where she had to cook over an electric heater powered by a cord from the neighbour and she says she didn't realize that they were poor until she went to L.A.

 

Donna probably did her best to hide from Felicity that they couldn't afford the things she wanted, especially so soon after her husband left.  It would have been a matter of pride, and of shame and she would have wanted to hide from Felicity as much as she could their circumstances. 

 

Donna could probably afford most things for Felicity like computer parts, hair cuts and potato chips so Felicity wouldn't have thought of them as lacking money, but Space Camp would have been prohibitively expensive for her.

 

I understand Donna being too proud to tell Felicity they didn't have the money.

 

It's a true enough thing for everyone. Dress for your body type. If you don't you look boxy or too round or bloated.

http://www.fashionbeans.com/2015/athletic-muscular-mens-style-fit-guide/

This is a good article on dressing if you have a build like Stephen's. The costumers follow none of these rules.

Is there a matching one for women? 

 

The thing is, in the previous episode, Oliver talked about how he missed his parents every single day - it sounded like Felicity understood what he was feeling, but going by her reaction in this episode, she really didn't.

You can miss your parents and still not want to have them around when you're hyperfocusing on a project.  Especially when they're as different from you as Felicity and Donna are.

 

Oliver didn't exactly get along with his mother when she had expectations of him coming into QC and being groomed to run it in s1.

 

It wouldn't be unusual for Oliver to get along with Donna better than Felicity does because there was no baggage, they met for the first time as adults and parents-in-law tend to be better behaved and less intrusive than your own parents..  My mother-in-law is one of the sweetest people I know but her sons really don't want her around when they're trying to some work done on a project. 

 

Oliver might be texting with Donna because he misses his own parents (I take it Donna learned to press 'send') but his relationship with Donna isn't the same as Felicity's relationship with her.  But while he enjoys cooking and hosting her to dinner, that's not the relationship Felicity has with her.  

 

Maybe if he took Donna to the mall and had mani pedis with her while Felicity got to work.....

[apinknightmare]

We were comfortable, but it wasn't until I reached my twenties that I realized just how much sacrifice my parents made to make sure I had what I needed, and a bit more.

Yeah, money troubles aren't always super obvious to kids, especially if the parents go to great lengths to hide it. My parents got divorced when I was 6, and when my dad would come and pick me up, he always took me to this burger place that had a huge fixins bar. He would buy me a burger, and then he'd make himself a salad from the fixins bar. I remember asking him why he never got a burger, and he told me that he just really liked salad. It never occurred to me that he wouldn't be telling the truth, so I believed him. It wasn't until I was an adult that he admitted it - I had no idea growing up how broke he was.

Edited November 14, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Delphi]

Is there a matching one for women?

All you have to do is ask. :)

http://www.oprah.com/style/How-to-Flatter-a-Muscular-Body-Style-Tips-for-Athletic-Builds_1

http://fashion.about.com/od/tallsizes/a/tallathletic.htm

Edited November 13, 2015 by Delphi

[statsgirl]

Thanks, Delph!

[kismet]

TVline apparently is also questioning the lack of curtains. Thankfully they also included a gif of OQ journaling. And I think I figured out why the lack of curtains bother me. Its not that he forgets to close them. **Confession time** I have lived in apts now for many years and if I'm 4th floor or above, I often do not shut my curtains all the time. But I own curtains. I just forget to use them. There aren't even any curtains or curtain rods in the room at all. That's just a little too exhibitionist or too much of an oversight for me. Can't the prop department at least pretend to think curtains are important.

 

On the positive - it is a really nice bed though. And the journaling remains priceless :)

Edited November 14, 2015 by kismet

[Delphi]

I love that wood frame as well! I actually want that frame.

Per the curtains, if it's a skyscraper loft I can get the lack of them. My mom in law lived on the 12th floor in dc apartment and she nor her neighbors have curtains. Is it maybe a city thing?

[SmallScreenDiva]

Maybe I missed this since I wasn't really paying that much attention to their scenes, but Sara never said anything about Laurel being Black Canary, did she? There was talk of the pit and "awful" parents but nothing about her sister suiting up?

[apinknightmare]

No, she never mentioned it.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Odd, but OK. Thanks!

[Chaser]

I know they are probably saving the big 'Canary' conversation for Sara's send off to LOT, but it looks like a big oversight not to have Sara mention anything about Laurel's new status/abilities/SWF-ing.

[catrox14]

I love that wood frame as well! I actually want that frame.

Per the curtains, if it's a skyscraper loft I can get the lack of them. My mom in law lived on the 12th floor in dc apartment and she nor her neighbors have curtains. Is it maybe a city thing?

 

 

I just figured they have that type of window with the glass treated so that one cannot see in.

[BkWurm1]

That said, how would Oliver have felt if Felicity had called in Moira when he was trying to focus on finding a criminal?

 

The thing is, in the previous episode, Oliver talked about how he missed his parents every single day - it sounded like Felicity understood what he was feeling, but going by her reaction in this episode, she really didn't.

See, I saw him calling and talking to Donna as a sort of nostalgia for him - he no longer has parents to confide in, so he can't really understand why Felicity, whose mother is still alive, doesn't value that fact. It doesn't matter whether he would have appreciated her doing something similar in the past - the fact is that now he'd do (almost) anything to get that time back, and he might feel like Felicity doesn't understand how that feels. In a "you don't know what you've got, till it's gone" way

 

It's also important to remember that Oliver only stopped hating his mother right before she died.  Even when they were "good" he completely kept her out of his business and skipped out on family time.  Imagine him being in the middle of tracking down Roy when he was kidnapped by Blood and Felicity getting in the way by having Moira show up where ever he was while working the problem and his mom wanting him to stop what he's doing and go and entertain her because she missed him.   

 

That's Donna showing up at Felicity's office.  Donna was sincere but the timing was awful. 

 

 Now add being super on edge and even more cranky and exhausted and even tjough the search is spinning it's wheels, just the added burden of pretending none of that is going on while you attempt to eat raw chicken is just too much.  Felicity and Donna were getting along finally after years of estrangement and misunderstanding.  It takes effort to continue nurturing that relationship, energy she didn't have to spare.  Felicity would have been much better off taking the time while they were waiting for answers to get some rest and relax as much as she could.  Instead, she had dinner plans that would have made her slightly tense even on a best day.    

 

On a slightly different note, I think while Oliver does miss his mom, I don't think Donna is a replacement for Moira even on a subconscious level but more of a revelation of what a mom could be like.  Donna is as warm as Moira was cold.  Both I'm sure had steel running down their spine but they were encased in different material.  Both loved their children unconditionally but no one is going to accuse Moira of being comfortable and inviting.  I think Oliver lapped up the maternal attention and concern from Donna but probably never even thought about it as filling a void his mother's death left since IMO the void the Donna was helping to fill was there even when Moira was alive.   

[kismet]

Here is my question about the chicken dinner.... Did it really take OQ that long to talk to QL, that he couldn't be there to help supervise the dinner? As others have mentioned that was not even close to chicken cordon blue. I was really disappointed that the script got a little wonky about who was supposed to cook dinner and then blamed OQ on missing out on dinner prep because he had to talk with QL. I can't imagine the conversation took longer than 20 min with travel time. Here is how I imagine the conversation went:

 

OQ - Hey Capt, we need you to talk to DD, so we can follow him. We need to rescue someone who's been captured.

QL - Do I want to know who?

OQ - Nope, better you don't know.  (we might gain +10min if they went into details) 

QL - Sure, just don't get one of my daughters killed.

OQ - Sure thing, but they can take care of themselves. Dig will be in a black van. Call him when you have a time.

QL - Will do.

 

But the show somehow made it seem like OQ needed to have a very long conversation with QL that he couldn't help hang out with MamaSmoak. I get it, we needed there to be burnt raw chicken so there could be a fight. Really this in-show plot excuse was a as bad as the actual in-show excuse. However, I guess they needed the Dr Lance line, so that when bar meet-up happened, MS would not suspect it was the same Lance.

[BkWurm1]

As others have mentioned that was not even close to chicken cordon blue.

 

Since Oliver is now a gourmand, I assumed he was going to do everything from scratch, including deboning a whole chicken into parts that he could then make into Chicken Cordon Blue, only he was late, Donna found something that talked about baking it in the oven for twenty minutes (I'm going to fanwank that Oliver's recipe included pre-frying it in a skillet until mostly done and then somehow adding in the ham and cheese at the end where you put it in the oven to melt those last twenty minutes) and she set it on broil rather than bake and never even touched the ham or the cheese.  Plus she probably put the chicken right on the rack so that the drippings caught on fire.  Makes perfect sense to the senseless. 

 

I'm pretty sure Felicity probably also was running late and the chicken was a fata complete by the time it started smoking so she grabbed a bottle of wine and just let her mom do the talking. 

[kismet]

Since Oliver is now a gourmand, I assumed he was going to do everything from scratch, including deboning a whole chicken into parts that he could then make into Chicken Cordon Blue, only he was late, Donna found something that talked about baking it in the oven for twenty minutes (I'm going to fanwank that Oliver's recipe included pre-frying it in a skillet until mostly done and then somehow adding in the ham and cheese at the end where you put it in the oven to melt those last twenty minutes) and she set it on broil rather than bake and never even touched the ham or the cheese.  Plus she probably put the chicken right on the rack so that the drippings caught on fire.  Makes perfect sense to the senseless. 

 

I'm pretty sure Felicity probably also was running late and the chicken was a fata complete by the time it started smoking so she grabbed a bottle of wine and just let her mom do the talking. 

Thank you... I was wondering how we got there, but your story is very logical and precise. I will believe it.

 

I still think OQ should have been able to get there soon enough to cook some of the dinner. But whatever, if Chatty Cathy was spending too long talking to QL to get home in time for dinner prep is the worst ForPlot! I have to digest this episode, I can do it.

[bijoux]

Last episode there was a mention of some erotic handholding being foreplay in the Smoak-Queen household. Look at what we have here.

 

[kismet]

Last episode there was a mention of some erotic handholding being foreplay in the Smoak-Queen household. Look at what we have here.

 

I don't even think they held or touched hands the entire episode, so how can this be considered erotic?? ;) Clearly its missing the hand holding to get it to an erotic place :)... I only saw ass grabbing, but perhaps my on-demand censored out the hand-holding because it was too erotic for viewing?

 

HeHe. Just really wanted to have the image posted another time on this thread.

[bijoux]

They are holding hands in the gif. You can see it as they start to lift their heads. So basically they've been screwing for years before Nanda Parbat. :)

[kismet]

Must have missed it, I was a little distracted with anticipation or that horrible duvet cover. I have also heard discussions of tongue vs no tongue during some Gif analysis, so that has taken more mental space than the hand holding.

 

Clearly though they have been doing a lot of things before NP if hand holding is the threshold of eroticism for some. Seriously, how are people even able to watch these scenes? I mean this show is gonna have to move to a cable network soon or at least a later time slot if they keep up all this hand holding by those standards.

[tv echo]

One of the reviewers said that Oliver inviting Donna to visit without checking with Felicity first was consistent with his characteristic thinking that he knows what's best for everyone else.  It's like last season when he decided on his own to keep Diggle and Felicity out  of the loop to protect them, or to keep secrets from everyone.  It's well-intentioned, but it's unilateral decision-making that affects other people.

[dtissagirl]

But it turned out he was right in asking Donna to visit, because she was the one who was able to give Felicity some perspective on the issues. When Felicity told Oliver they found themselves in each other -- that was Donna's point entirely.

Edited November 14, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Ceylon5]

That's beside the point, though, isn't it?  The point is that Oliver shouldn't be inviting Felicity's mother to visit her without checking with her first.  If he hadn't done that, she might not have gone quite so far off the deep end in the first place.  But even if there were no downsides and only upsides to some unilateral decision he's made, that still doesn't give him the right to constantly make decisions on behalf of other adults who haven't given him permission to do so.  There are times and places for that sort of thing (life and death situations, for example, or when you can't ask the person and have to make the best decision you can on your own), but this wasn't one of them.  While I don't think this instance was that big a deal in the grander scheme of things, it is certainly indicative of the larger pattern he's been shown to have of doing this all the time with respect to all the people in his life.  Not one of his better qualities, IMO.

[tv echo]

I'm totally confused by TA (or TGA)'s current policy when it comes to killing.  It just seems so inconsistent.  In that big action sequence when Speedy/Canary/BC fight those DD goons, they made a big deal out of Sara neck-breaking that one guy.  But during that sequence, she was shooting guys right and left, and Speedy clearly shot an arrow into one guy's chest.  So are we to believe that no one was killed other than that one guy?  Did the team tell Sara ahead of time to shoot to incapacitate (and not kill) only?

Edited November 14, 2015 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

That's beside the point, though, isn't it?  The point is that Oliver shouldn't be inviting Felicity's mother to visit her without checking with her first.  If he hadn't done that, she might not have gone quite so far off the deep end in the first place.  But even if there were no downsides and only upsides to some unilateral decision he's made, that still doesn't give him the right to constantly make decisions on behalf of other adults who haven't given him permission to do so.  There are times and places for that sort of thing (life and death situations, for example, or when you can't ask the person and have to make the best decision you can on your own), but this wasn't one of them.  While I don't think this instance was that big a deal in the grander scheme of things, it is certainly indicative of the larger pattern he's been shown to have of doing this all the time with respect to all the people in his life.  Not one of his better qualities, IMO.

 

Old unilateral decision-making Oliver has been pretty non-existent this season, and I don't think that something like inviting Donna as a surprise is even remotely close to some of the problematic behavior regarding decision-making he's shown in the past. It's not as if Felicity told him she didn't want to see her mother and he decided that he knew what was best for her and did it anyway. He was watching her spiral and was unable to do anything to coax her out of that on his own since she had passed the point of not listening to reason, and he thought maybe her mother could do what he couldn't, since Felicity was being pretty manic. 

 

Oliver's learning how to be in a relationship, and Felicity just taught him that there are good surprises and bad surprises. He admitted he shouldn't have invited Donna over, so...lesson learned. He most likely won't ever do that again. 

[kismet]

Here's is how I fanwank DSs invitation.

DS - Hi hon! How r u doing? Any new recipes? F is not returning any of my calls, everything ok?

OQ - hi Donna, everything is fine. F just I really busy with a big project. She's really stressed. I don't know how to talk to her. Any suggestions?

DS - Why don't I come and help?

OQ - No I don't think that's good idea.

DS - sometimes a girl just needs her mother.

OQ - But I really don't know if she wants company.

DS - Everybody wants to see their mom. Plz I miss her and love her (tear face emoji)

OQ - I don't know if good idea.

DS - of course it is plz (teat face emoji)

OQ - ok, I can teach you this great chicken cordon bkue recipe.

Basically I think OQ called for help over the phone. DS finagled a visit. And because Smoak women are his kryptonite, OQ couldn't say NO. I really don't think he invited DS as much as she invited herself.

I do not think it's a regression to his unilateral decision making days. Future in Laws can be pretty powerful & persuasive.

[Ceylon5]

I don't understand why he didn't at least tell her that her Mom was coming, though, once he'd invited her.  Unless he knows far less about Felicity than the audience does, he had to know that she wouldn't want her mother sprung on her unawares.  So either he doesn't know her at all well, or he knew she wouldn't like it and was too much of a wuss to tell her in advance (which would also mean he'd know it wasn't cool to invite her Mom without asking her first).  I don't really like either option that much.  Plus, why has he been keeping it secret from her that he's been texting/staying in contact with her Mom?  Or was it just this once because he was worried about her?  So many questions.

 

Oliver has been shown to be a slow and sporadic learner, so we'll see if this lesson sticks.  It also didn't help the way the scenes were framed: Felicity freaks out because he invited her Mom to visit without checking with her first, so what does he do in the next scene?  Make dinner plans with her Mom without checking with her first.  On first watch, I assumed that he'd made the dinner plans with Donna after she arrived in town (i.e. after Felicity's first freak out), but on rewatch, there wouldn't really have been time for that, so the invite and the dinner plans must have both been made at the same time.  This does make him seem a little less dumb than I first thought.  But still pretty dumb.  Sweet, but dumb.

[apinknightmare]

I imagine he didn't tell her because he thought it would be a nice surprise for her.

I just really don't see the issue. He thought he was doing something good, and learned that surprise mom visits are firmly in the No column.

[dtissagirl]

I'm totally confused by TA (or TGA)'s current policy when it comes to killing.  It just seems so inconsistent.  In that big action sequence when Speedy/Canary/BC fight those DD goons, they made a big deal out of Sara neck-breaking that one guy.  But during that sequence, she was shooting guys right and left, and Speedy clearly shot an arrow into one guy's chest.  So are we to believe that no one was killed other than that one guy?  Did the team tell Sara ahead of time to shoot to incapacitate (and not kill) only?

 

I think you have to take it for granted that it's only an actual death if the narrative makes the point of it being an actual kill. Shooting a goon with an arrow right in the chest, and he falls down, but it isn't acknowledged by the text that it was a kill -- it wasn't. He's just knocked out. It's total bullshit, btw, but it's what it looks like they're doing.

[Sakura12]

Yes, we're supposed fanwank that all the bullets and arrows miss hitting any major arteries and the head bad guy will take his/her goons to a hospital to get stitched up before they bleed to death. 

[statsgirl]

MG even said that last season during Oliver fighting the Assassins in Nanda Parbat that they were all just knocked out, not dead.  ::eyeroll::

I don't understand why he didn't at least tell her that her Mom was coming, though, once he'd invited her.  Unless he knows far less about Felicity than the audience does, he had to know that she wouldn't want her mother sprung on her unawares.

[snip]

Sweet, but dumb.

In the back of his mind he may have been aware that Donna exasperated Felicity but probably when they went to visit her during the Summer of Love, they got along well enough.  Human emotions aren't Oliver's specialty and so he  may not have made the connection between Relaxed Felicity being okay with her mother ans Stressed Felicity not.  Maybe he thought it would be a nice surprise since he's missing his mother. Yes, he's that clueless.

 

Also, up to now Felicity has rolled with almost every punch he's thrown at her, the exception being when he informed them that he was going to work is Malcolm Merlyn last season.  He has little idea of what her Do Not Cross line is.

 

He may have thought that a nice dinner with her mother would help Felicity relax for a while and destress and he does love entertaining.  Hopefully now he knows better.

 

Maybe if the next dinner he invites Donna to and she brings a plus one of the new guy she just met, he'll get an idea of how stressful dinner parties can be.

[Starfish35]

Maybe if the next dinner he invites Donna to and she brings a plus one of the new guy she just met, he'll get an idea of how stressful dinner parties can be.

ROFL.

[bijoux]

Oh, he just needs to think back to his first dinner back home to remember that. I didn't realize you wanted to sleep with my mother, Walter.

[kismet]

Oh, he just needs to think back to his first dinner back home to remember that. I didn't realize you wanted to sleep with my mother, Walter.

Awesome line!! Best arrow dinner party to date :)

[Delphi]

Awesome line!! Best arrow dinner party to date :)

I always like brunch more for the comedy gold.

"Why did he want you to become a wizard?"

[BunsenBurner]

In regards to the uncovered Windows. Last season MM was watching TQ through the windows.

It would be nice to think that at least the bedroom windows were coated so no one could see in since they do show that they can see other buildings.

[AyChihuahua]

Laura Hurley hated the comforter, too.  

[BkWurm1]

But it turned out he was right in asking Donna to visit, because she was the one who was able to give Felicity some perspective on the issues. When Felicity told Oliver they found themselves in each other -- that was Donna's point entirely.

 

It's good that she was pushed to the point of realizing what the bigger issue was and it's good that Donna was there to talk her down but I suspect that had Oliver not tossed Donna into the mix, Felicity would have held it together enough that she wouldn't have had the final melt down that needed Donna there to fix it.  Again, in the long run, I prefer getting it all out quickly rather than let it drag out and torment her over time (her doubts about loving him too much) but Oliver was both the cause and solution (via Donna) to Felicity's immediate problem.

[GHfan]

I really liked olicity this episode.

[Last Time Lord]

I'm beginning to understand how my friend felt while playing Final Fantasy V for the first time, and his reaction whenever the villain showed up.

It is the same I feel whenever Darhk shows up. I'm not fearful of him. I'm not in awe of him. I'm bored of him.

[Morrigan2575]

Interesting. I actually find Darhk to be the best Villain Arrow has ever done (aside from the early episodes where it seemed Moira was the S1 villain. I find him threatening (not so much the magic but his machinations) and highly entertaining.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[bijoux]

Interesting. I actually find Darhk to be the best Villain Arrow has ever done (aside from the early episodes where it seemed Moira was the S1 villain. I find him threatening (not so much the magic but his machinations) and highly entertaining.

I'm really fond of Slade, but Darhk is killing it and I'm continuously surprised at what an impact he makes with little screen time.

[kismet]

I'm really fond of Slade, but Darhk is killing it and I'm continuously surprised at what an impact he makes with little screen time.

Agree. I also think Slade had the benefit of s1 & his established bromance with OQ that helped his performance. DD is crushing it with no real backstory or personal connection required.