S31.E08: You Call, We Haul

[Bryce Lynch]

Someone should tell Probst to STFU during challenges, especially those which require complete concentration. His constant yakking was distracting me.

I think dealing with Probst's yakking is part of the challenge. :)

That said, I thought his yakking was way out of line a few weeks ago when he was drowning out the callers in the blindfold challenge.

[meep.meep]

I do this too! I also say, "Survivors ready?" and "Want to know what you're playing for"!

 

We do that too!  And "Head on back to camp, I got nothing for you" to the dejected reward challenge losers.

 

If you ever want to break the tension at a business meeting, walk in, sit down, and say "Survivors ready?"

[Ms Blue Jay]

"Come on in and GET FIRE."

[Xcptnl]

I thought Jeremy's look when Ciera called him out at tribal was hysterical. Who me? Nawwww, not me. I can't even win a immunity challenge. His facial expression was awesome. And when Jeff started talking about idols he was trying to stay out of that discussion too.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Xcptnl

[Hera]

I'm actually surprised he didn't play his idol after Wentworth played her own. They all know they voted for Wentworth and that will not count, so one of the other nine will be going home. And considering that Ciera outed him as one of the top dogs, it was a risky play not to use his idol, since Ciera's rant alone should be a clue that he may be the target, along with Savage and Fishbach. He got lucky, but it was risky.

I didn't even think of this. Jeremy wouldn't have had a lot of time to make his decision, and might have estimated that the 1/8–1/4 risk of getting booted this week was better than dealing with the fall-out of revealing he had an idol that he hadn't told anyone about, and potentially wasting it. He lucked out in that he wasn't the target and that he still has his idol.

I don't really know where Kelley, Ciera, and Abi go from here. I feel a bit bad for Kelley—she started on a tribe that fell apart, then didn't have to go to tribal council again until the merge, meaning that everyone she had built trust with had been voted out, with no opportunities to build trust with anyone else. Joe seems to like her—I think his leaking the vote to her via Ciera was an attempt to cultivate a jury vote, but it ended up costing him the one person who was determined to keep him in the game at all costs. Oops. Joe may be a joy to have around camp, but nothing I'm not impressed by anything of his strategic or social game on either season.

I thought it was weird that Stephen compared himself to Captain Ahab. If he has the self-awareness to make that analogy, you'd think he'd re-examine his fixation on getting Joe out and start asking himself questions like, "Is it really necessary to start plotting against him before we do the immunity challenge?" or "Is there anyone else who is also a threat to win the game that I could whip votes for instead?" Because, as many other have pointed out, Jeremy is at least as big a threat to win the game as Joe is.

I could not be happier that Andrew is gone.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Hera

[wonald]

Did this set the record for most votes nullified?

 

Yes. The previous record was set just last season when Jenn idol'd Kelly Remington out at merge.

[lexington11]

 

 

Is Jeremy throwing challenges?  He does great when it's a group effort, but not when it's individual.  He's really reminding me of Derrick from Big Brother.  When Savage wanted to vote out Stephen, Jeremy validated the thought, pointed out why it wouldn't work, then sat back and let it digest.  I hope he wins.

That could be a real possibility. Unlike Spencer/Tasha/Joe, who are just making themselves bigger targets by doing so well in the challenges, Jeremy certainly seems to be aware of the fact that winning or being close to it in individual challenges is just going to give everyone else a compelling reason to want you on jury duty instead of in the final 3.

Yes. The previous record was set just last season when Jenn idol'd Kelly Remington out at merge.

Actually, Jenn just tied Russell's record when he idol'd Kelly Sharbaugh out at final 12, I think. But yeah, Wentworth now holds the record for most votes nullified by an idol.

[ljenkins782]

I thought Jeremy's look when Ciera called him out at tribal was hysterical. Who me? Nawwww, not me. I can't even win a immunity challenge. His facial expression was awesome. And when Jeff started talking about idols he was trying to stay out of that discussion too.

I'm sure it's less obvious in person with a big crowd of people, but since the editors always cut to Wentworth and Jeremy when idols are mentioned, Jeremy's guilty puppy dog expression always makes me wonder if someone is going to eventually guess that he has one. He always looks like he's practically hiding under his buff when the talk turns to idols, makes me laugh every time. 

[autisticnarwhal]

The only thing that would have made that more epic is if Kelley, Ciera, or Abi yelled "we're your new Lill".

 

I think I would have been disappointed if Kass didn't flip everyone the bird.  Savage is a sore loser.

 

WTG Kelley on the idol play!  That's what I like to see (especially since it saved her!)  Loved the look on Savage, Stephen, and Tasha's faces!  That was epic!!!  Hopefully this shakes things up.  I'd hate to see it be like last season, where Jenn's boot didn't buy her alliance more than 3 more days.

To far m8 to far.

[princelina]

I wish I could understand the Joe appeal. I love a pretty boy with a man bun as much as the next girl, but he seems to have zero personality or sense of humor. Pretty on its own does't cut it. I am open to other opinions if someone has seen something I've missed.

I don't even find him so  "pretty" (and I don't care for man buns), although he is healthy, attractive and fit, which is a very good look :)  IMO the Joe appeal is that he is what I think of as a quality human being.  He has talents and interests in his real life, and he is able to make interesting conversation with people, presumably about those talents and interests.  He is able to broaden those interests with enthusiasm, which results in him doing things like creating hammocks or spear fishing on his beach, even though he knows it's not doing himself any favors.  (But as he said - "I just can't be here without doing ANYTHING!!!") In the many hours of downtime these folks have, I am sure he has interesting conversation to pass the time.  I'm also sure that superficial idiots have no use for him.  I'm not sure who those are, but I know they exist.  Clearly he isn't great at gameplay, nor is he great at bringing the DRAMA that reality TV thrives upon.  I totally get (as a viewer/armchair quarterback) why he must go NOW!  I also get why he is loved  by viewers.  And I get why people on the island know he must go/like him and hate to blindside him.  I heart him and hope he makes it as far as the family visits so that his dad can visit him on set.  He has been very clear that that is his #1 goal and I am rooting him on for that :)

[KimberStormer]

OK, here I am at last.

 

So I was super-disappointed when Joe won the IC.  Because, I thought, if Joe had lost, everyone was going to have to play.  Stephen was out for Joe.  Would he prevail?  Or would Joe turn it around on him?  Ciera, Wentworth, and Abi in the middle would have been in good shape--Ciera has a relationship with Stephen, Wentworth has a relationship with Joe.  It would have been truly interesting.  But Joe wins, and Jeremy (I believe because of Joe's win keeping Stephen from going balls-to-the-wall on this one) was able to maintain status quo, which is great for Jeremy but bad for KimberStormer because a) Kelley, Ciera, and Abi are all three of my favorites and b) status quo is boring.

 

So, honestly, while I enjoyed the result, it wasn't really a great Survivor gameplay episode for me.  Kelley used the idol at the right time to save herself--that's great, good for her, but in my opinion, which I hope is clear, it's just not anywhere on the same level as Parvati's move in HvV.  I'm super happy Kelley was saved (and that Savage went to Ponderosa, the jackass) and I hope that the very forces which a Joe loss would have unleashed are set free by this idol play.  Just like with Jenn's idol, I must hope that, as with Russell's save-Parvati move in HvV, the shock of it gets things moving.  But I can't get my hopes up for that.

 

Seems to me that Jeremy is playing an amazing game.  Others playing very well, by my lights, include Tasha, Spencer, Ciera, and Kelley.  Joe started towards the path of playing, but not trying harder to get rid of the person who is gunning for him so hard was a mistake, in my opinion.  I'm not a Cochran fan nor do I really respect his opinions on the game particularly but I remember him saying the wonderful thing about winning immunity was you could try some shit.  He didn't have to be terrified, when he wore the necklace, so he felt like he could go out on a limb.  Use that power, Joe.  It is a heavy weight around your shoulders, placing an enormous target on your back--if you only use it to buy 3 days at a time, you're wasting it, you're letting the bad outweigh the good.  Tasha seems to be in good position to make F3, though I don't know if she can beat Jeremy there.  Spencer is finally not just the clueless lucky second-choice vote for once in his life; it's not a great position, but it's way better than he's been in.

 

Thank you. I was no fan of Savage, but Ciera was working my last nerve. Save your browbeating for private conversations -- where you can wear people down. Has anyone ever successfully gained allies by tribal council grandstanding?

 

It's so funny that you ask this re: Ciera because the answer is yes, specifically Ciera herself was won over by tribal council grandstanding.  Now I didn't watch Blood VS Water.  I wasn't on the forums for it.  But I heard about Hayden's amazing nothing-to-lose arguments where he laid out that everyone was going to lose to Tyson and you need to flip because number 4 is nothing, don't play for 4th, you need to build your resume by making moves, etc., kind of exactly what Ciera has been saying.  As I say, I wasn't on the boards.  Maybe everyone was flipping out about how obnoxious and terrible and stuck-up and delusional Hayden is for daring to have the temerity to "tell people how to play".  But that was certainly not the vibe that came out of the ether to me.  Rather it was "Thank God someone is finally doing it!"  But I guess Ciera rolls her eyes or something and is a girl, so it doesn't count.

 

Either way though, I still say Ciera is full of shit because tonight proved that once she realized the numbers were not going to gun for her, she was MORE than happy to just go with it. She was all too happy to jump on the blindsiding Fishbach bandwagon even after she stated that Fishbach was someone who wanted to make moves like her (isn't that what she's telling people to do, so shouldn't she have been having Stephen's back then) and getting rid of Joe like he wanted was smart. But once things changed to the numbers being against Stephen, they were ALL on board. 

 

No, she got her panties in a twist when the flip didn't happen after all and they were back at the bottom and suddenly she's pontificating and ranting again about no one playing and not making moves and not playing the game. Okay so Ciera where were you to rally people to vote Savage instead of Stephen? Why didn't she go to Stephen and say Joe and Savage were coming for him and try to work with him to get Savage instead and flip the game that way? No, she did nothing but go off at tribal and hope for a miracle which came in the form of Wentworth's immunity idol that she, Ciera, didn't even know about. 

 

I literally don't understand this argument.  Ciera wanted someone to make a move, because that's how she could survive.  When Joe and Andrew were, indeed, making a move, she did not try to stop it to save someone not in her alliance.  That seems to me to be not bad, but instead completely expected and rational.  And blowing up Andrew and Joe's "vote out Stephen" plan would be totally insane.  As for the second part, what makes you think she didn't try to flip Stephen around again?  How do you know she had time?  What do you think she was saying at tribal?  You don't think she's trying everything she can?  "How dare she try so hard, she's not even trying anything" is a weird line to take.

 

After watching Kass' entry at tribal, my new name for her is "Classless Kass." 

 

Earlier in the season Spencer seemed to have nine lives.  Now Ciera does.  She keeps painting targets on her own back: only dumb luck has kept her in the game.  I really hope she does not subject us to more delusional lectures about playing hard.  Most everyone is playing hard.  Just not the way she wants them to. 

 

Explain to me how Kimmi, Kelly Wigelsworth, Keith, and Joe are playing hard.  I just gave props to Spencer for hanging in there, but he should be looking for any chance to grab a better position, since he is inarguably at the bottom of this alliance.  Ciera is right.

 

I think Kelley is a much better player than Jenn turned out to be.  Once Hali got booted, Jenn pretty well gave up.  I also think Jenn didn't really strategize much: she lined up with her NC homies, and that was mostly it. 

 

My read of Kelley is that she will fight to the last second.  I also think she's much more adroit strategically; and better socially as well. 

 

Seems to me lots of cracks opened up this episode.  My sense is that Kelley will exploit them.  She'll have to: with no idol and her finally out of the shadows she can't rest on her laurels. 

 

Just better not fight like Ciera, making a rational and correct case, that would be foolish and delusional.  Does anyone remember that it was Kelley herself who brought up the Core 4 who were controlling the game?  I love her, but there is no reason to suppose she's more strategic, whatever that means, than Jenn.  I hope so; I love Kelley, but I don't like her as a club to beat other women with.

[KimberStormer]

Whew, this season at least does two things: makes me feel like I'm in Opposite World compared to a lot of the board (Kimmi made a great move!  Ciera is completely wrong about everything!), and also makes me remember how crucial a rule boards-on-boards was for me personally.  I'm going to try to rein it in, apologies for getting all boards-on-boardsy. 

Edited November 13, 2015 by KimberStormer

[Oscirus]

But I heard about Hayden's amazing nothing-to-lose arguments where he laid out that everyone was going to lose to Tyson and you need to flip because number 4 is nothing, don't play for 4th, you need to build your resume by making moves, etc., kind of exactly what Ciera has been saying.  As I say, I wasn't on the boards.  Maybe everyone was flipping out about how obnoxious and terrible and stuck-up and delusional Hayden is for daring to have the temerity to "tell people how to play".  But that was certainly not the vibe that came out of the ether to me.  Rather it was "Thank God someone is finally doing it!"  But I guess Ciera rolls her eyes or something and is a girl, so it doesn't count.

 

To be fair, Hayden was annoying as shit too. Also, if anybody should get the credit for flipping Ciera, it should be Gervase. It was his big mouth that all but confirmed she was four when she went into tribal thinking she was three.

 

I'm super happy Kelley was saved (and that Savage went to Ponderosa, the jackass) and I hope that the very forces which a Joe loss would have unleashed are set free by this idol play.  Just like with Jenn's idol, I must hope that, as with Russell's save-Parvati move in HvV, the shock of it gets things moving

 

I still think she idoled the wrong person. Yes, Savage was an annoying prick, but Jeremy would've caused a lot more chaos. As a Jeremy fan, booting Savage was a good move, as a game fan, not so much.

 

I didn't even think of this. Jeremy wouldn't have had a lot of time to make his decision, and might have estimated that the 1/8–1/4 risk of getting booted this week was better than dealing with the fall-out of revealing he had an idol that he hadn't told anyone about, and potentially wasting it

 

Per his twitter, he has no idea why he didn't use his idol.

 

I also agree with everybody that Joe needs to go soon to get the next stage of this game started.

[Hera]

Per his twitter, he has no idea why he didn't use his idol.

I love that. Both Jeremy and I watched Kelley's idol play without putting it together that it might be wise for him to use his. He really lucked out not to be the target. I guess his attempts to keep a low profile have been good for something.

[kikaha]

Kimber, Hayden made his argument near the end of the game.  By then the lines of power had been drawn in the sand.  Ciera, with her usual clarity, failed to recognize where those lines lay until too late, and shuffled back and forth between Hayden and Tyson. 

 

This season Ciera made her argument with nearly 2/3rds of the game left.  Tons of time to shift the power, as we've seen repeatedly happen on Survivor.  This season that's especially true: the multiple swaps have made the alliances more fleeting and fluid than ever.  i.e. sitting at the bottom of an alliance today doesn't mean that much, at this point of this season.  Just wait till tomorrow.  New seismic cracks are almost sure to appear, that will shift things around even more. 

 

I agree that some people you named are mostly pawns, who aren't involved strategically.  Keith and Kelly  e.g.  But strategy is not in their DNA.  Joe, on the other hand, has his hand in both major alliances right now, trying to wheel and deal on all sides of the aisle (in vain IMO: he's too big a target and will go the second he loses immunity).  Kimmi is in great shape.  Even though I know you don't like it, she was 100% responsible for booting someone she saw as an enemy.  That alone generated enough trust, it almost guarantees she goes deep, where almost anything can happen. 

 

So IMO all players but two on Bayon are scrambling like hell or have done so at some point this season.  An amazingly high ratio.  Along with all the action and interesting play at Ta Keo earlier, it is making this season real exciting for me.  For many players the problem has not been playing too little: it's playing too much.  They can't win the game now but they sure can lose it.  A number have proved that true already, including Vytas, Shirin, PG, Monica, and Varner.  I fear Stephen is hellbent on doing the same. 

 

That is part of my objection to Ciera's play.  She made risky moves, too early... that wouldn't have advanced her position that much at those points... and that backfired big-time on her.  This cost her one key ally (Kass),  Except for a great play by Kelley it would have cost her another, leaving her isolated on a desert island with exactly one person.  Abi. 

 

On top of that Ciera is alienating others, blathering about 'playing the game.'  Give me break.  She over-played, at the wrong time, made the wrong choices, and that put her and her alliance squarely in the minority.  Then she complains that others -- who are in far better positions than her, with plenty of time to make moves in this, the most fluid season in Survivor history -- won't explode their games to help her out?

 

Another tell-tale sign that she is wrong about all this: despite these huge mistakes, Ciera is not dead in the water.  There are so many cracks, so much play taking place behind the scenes, she could still go a lot further in this game. 

 

About Jenn: she greatly disappointed me with how she went out of the game.  Once Hali got booted, she seemed to give up.  She asked the others to vote her out... and IIRC said she did not want to strategize.  Watching one of my favorites basically check out was a bitter pill to swallow.  Once her friends were gone, my sense was she wanted to join them at Ponderosa and drink Mai Tais.  Pretty sure she later described those days as "the best time of my life." 

 

Again, I don't see Kelley ever giving up or giving in,  I also think where Jenn stuck with her gang of three the whole game, Kelley moves easily in and out of alliances as the need arises.  Through no fault of her own, the need has arisen a whole lot.  She is more flexible in that way than Jenn, or most players for that matter.  Another way she impresses me. 

 

Trivia (?) point: Joe won the first two individual ICs last season, lost the third and immediately got booted.  Next episode is the third individual IC this season.  Will history repeat itself? 

[kikaha]

Jeremy did not have bad history with Ciera, Kelley or Abi.  Savage did, and recently: he was Abi's/Ciera's next target if they hadn't merged.  I'm sure they knew he orchestrated Kass' boot, which put them at the bottom.  I think he looked like the throne of Bayon, which made him their target.  Hera is right IMO: Jeremy is doing a great job keeping a low profile, even while he is the power behind the throne. 

 

But only Kelley knew about the idol.  Ciera and Abi thought they were going to a funeral that night for one of them.  They had to think their votes for Andrew were throwaway votes, that would come to nothing other than maybe piss him off a bit. 

 

Only Kelley knew that, so long as Bayon did not split the vote, whoever Ciera, Abi and she chose would go home.  She did not have as much direct experience with Savage -- she was never on a tribe with before merge, was she?  

[ProfCrash]

In Joe's defense: He is more active and involved this season then he was last season. I am not sure that it is active enough but it is an improvement over last season. I think Joe's biggest problem is that he is a very nice, genuine person who is very good at challenges. He projects a massive target and I don't think there is a damn thing that he can do about it. I actually think the fact that he is not a natural born schemer and that he is a nice guy is more problematic for him then the challenge beast bit. The two combined is deadly.

 

Joe was high on Jeremy and Andrews list of people to protect. Joe is the only one to reach out to the women on the bottom. Joe is well aware that Stephen is targeting him and is prepared to counter Stephen. He is in a pretty good place right now.

 

I would say that the really active players in the game are Joe, Jeremy, Tasha, Stephen, Spencer, Kelley, and Ciera. They are all playing with different levels of success

 

Jeremy is playing the best.  People are bringing him information and he is able to sway how they are going to vote. He has an idol and has not told anyone he has an idol. There are several other targets legitimatly infront of him, Joe, Stephen, Ciera, and Kelley. While he has been called out as one of the power players he seems to escape unscathed. He has loyal lieutenants in Kimmi and Stephen.

 

Tasha is set to go to the finals but she cannot win. Tasha has plenty of bg targets infront on her in Stephen, Joe, Jeremy, Kelley, Ciera and Abi. She can physically win immunity and she is in the power alliance. Tasha is not controllign the game, we have not seen people bringing her info or her being the decision maker in who is voted out. More importantly, Tasha is pissing people off at camp. We might not be seeing that but I believe Kass because the comments about Tasha this season are pretty much in line with the comments about Tasha from Cagayan. Tasha does not have Kass, Kelley, Ciera, or Abi's vote based on what happened last week. That will make it very hard for her to win in FTC vote.

 

Joe and Kelley are playing games that could get them the win but probably won't make it to the finals. Joe is just too much of the golden boy to make it to the end. He knows that everyone sees that in him. Unless he has a hidden individuals immunity idol, he is likely gone when he loses immunity. Jeremy is not going to keep him when he knows that Joe can win. Kelley has not really pissed people off, she has maintained confidences, has played a good social game and just used an idol in a great manner. She was targetted because people see her as a cog for Joe so people know that she is playing and working which gets her respect.

 

Stephen is playing hard but won't see tribal and even if he does he will not win. Kimmi and Andrew have already called out his schemeing as problematic in confessionals. Everyone has openly discussed his desire to make a big move and no one fully trusts him because of that. Joe knows he is being targetted and why. He has sucked at challenges, Kass beat him for gods sake. He has not been in control of a single vote out and has been flat out rejected by his alliance. He is seen as a vote and someone to keep an eye on. That does not win you votes. And he is targeted by others to get out.

 

Ciera is playing hard but won't see the finals. She is a schemer, scrambling and upsetting people with what she is saying. She is rocking the boat for the people at the top, insulting the people in the middle and not playing in a way that lets other people reach out to her. She is desperate and tryign to find a way in but failing.

 

Spencer is the interesting player. He was on the wrong tribe, again, to start but managed to work his way in at his new tribe. He has kept his head down and is going with the flow. He is not a target but a vote. He is someone who is not threatening to make a move, willing to work with the game masters and go for the ride. While this could get him to the final tribal, I don't think it can win the game. He can make the argument that he was in a bad place because of his original tribes ineptitude and having to deal with Abi and that he managed to work his way into the majority alliance and stay safe but he is not going to be able to argue that he controlled anything or initiated big moves. In this season, initiation is what matters. Did you form and hold an alliance togehter? Did you initiate the move that mattered? People are not going to award the win to someone who found a comfortable situation and made it work. Spencer has managed to find a way to play an UTR game after an awful start.

 

Kimmi, Abi, Keith and Kelly Wiglesworth have no shot at winning this. They are all votes who are not making moves. Abi has flipped on every alliance she is in and pisses people off by breathing at this point. Keith is a good natured dude who is fun but has no strategic sense and won't initiate anything. Kimmi is a loya lieutenant and that is about it. Kelly is not even playing the game. Honestly, anyone of them could go to the finals as a goat but I cannot see any of them making the finals because I actually think that the Jeremy, Tasha, and Spencer's of the game want real players in the end and not goats. I think they know that brining goats is not likely to earn a ton of respect this season and could make winning harder.

 

Unless that goat is Abi. But I think she is pissing people off enough on the beach that she won't make it to the end because people don't want to deal with her.

[Beebee111]

 

For many players the problem has not been playing too little: it's playing too much.  They can't win the game now but they sure can lose it.  A number have proved that true already, including Vytas, Shirin, PG, Monica, and Varner.  I fear Stephen is hellbent on doing the same.

 

That is part of my objection to Ciera's play.  She made risky moves, too early... that wouldn't have advanced her position that much at those points... and that backfired big-time on her.  This cost her one key ally (Kass),  Except for a great play by Kelley it would have cost her another, leaving her isolated on a desert island with exactly one person.  Abi.

 

THIS Kikaha. Well put.

 

 

Whew, this season at least does two things: makes me feel like I'm in Opposite World compared to a lot of the board (Kimmi made a great move!  Ciera is completely wrong about everything!),

 

Kimber, I guess personal biases come into play in judging players because I much prefer the stealthy approach. Players who are able to make genuine relationships, leverage them strategically, while remaining somewhat UTR (not to mention treating others respectfully while at it) really appeal to me. I think something we snarkers from afar may not appreciate is just how hard it is to draw the line between making moves whilst not being perceived as overplaying. As Kikaha said, those who have played too aggressively have found themselves out of the game - I would argue that Savage too was a victim of this. 

That being said, maybe Ciera is out of options. Perhaps she is using that approach because it is the only angle she has left having been unable to garner allies due to earlier mistakes and/or bad luck. It just looks like a terribly ineffective from my vantage point.

[laurakaye]

Someone should tell Probst to STFU during challenges, especially those which require complete concentration. His constant yakking was distracting me.

Has any Survivor ever asked him to be quiet?  I seem to remember Penner giving Probst some lip once, but I would love to see a contestant who is desperately trying to concentrate ask Jeff to please keep his running commentary to himself.  I've always thought this was Probst's way of getting into their heads, but if I'm trying to balance or concentrate, and Jeff Probst announces that I'm starting to fall/slip/move, I'm probably going to overcorrect myself and drop out.  I'm always impressed by those who seem to be able to completely block out his voice.

Edited November 13, 2015 by laurakaye

[Special K]

Has any Survivor ever asked him to shut his yap?  I seem to remember Penner giving Probst some lip once, but I would love to see a contestant who is desperately trying to concentrate askl Jeff to please keep his running commentary to himself.  I've always thought this was Probst's way of getting into their heads, but if I'm trying to balance or concentrate, and Jeff Probst announces that I'm starting to fall/slip/move, I'm probably going to overcorrect myself and drop out.  I'm always impressed by those who seem to be able to completely block out his voice.

Agree.  I'm also impressed by those who can maintain their focus while others are flailing and dropping out and cursing just next to them.  That would instantly throw me off!

 

[Jextella]

I have developed a major girl crush on Wentworth.  She's quite awesome.

 

As Spencer said, what Cierra was saying is true.  I don't think she's telling people how to play but rather trying to drum more people up for her to play with. I can't fault her for that.

[peachmangosteen]

I think Tasha is probably second-in-command. Jeremy is making all the final decisions so far. I think if Tasha wanted something that was against what Jeremy wanted then Jeremy would end up coming out on top. Stephen and Kimimi are, as someone so aptly coined them, loyal lieutenants of Jeremy. I don't really see anybody out there who's playing loyal lieutenant to Tasha. 

[ProfCrash]

What has Tasha done since the merge? She got in a huge fight with Kass. Kass was already on the bottom at the merge and was a logical vote ut without Tasha's antics. As for Angkor, do you really think that Abi was going to work with Woo and Peih-Gee? Seriously? Abi was bound to defect and Jeff was not going to participate in a tie. He said in his pregame interviews that he was not going to allow a tie if he could control it. That is why Vytas was voted out and that is why Peih-Gee was voted out. Jeff refused to allow a tie since it burned him in his season.

 

So what work did Tasha really have to do? Abi flipped, Jeff went with the solid three and Peih-Gee went home. Tasha kept Abi on her side but I don't even know how much work that took. Jeff was sick and barely doing anything after going to Angkor. His toe was broken and he was barely walking. There was no way he was surviving that tribal. Tasha didn't even need Abi's vote, Woo was not voting for himself so he was voting for Jeff. It is a 3-2 vote if Abi votes with Jeff.

 

So please, tell me how Tasha controlled the votes at Angkor.

 

Tasha is great with rolling with the punches and she played Abi fine. But she tossed Abi at the merge, she has made no move to try and keep Abi as a vote. She caused a rucus that helped take out Kass but Kass was listed as someone to go early once she was at tribal anyway. The rucus she caused annoyed Ciera, Abi and Keith. Keith doesn't like the drama and is not going to be comfortable with Tasha after that mess.

 

Who is approaching Tasha with alternative plans or information? Was Tasha responsible for removing Joe from the block a few weeks back? Was Tasha responsible for removing Stephen this week? Nope.

 

Tasha is tight with Jeremy. I am not sure how tight she is with Joe. She was tight with Andrew but he is gone. Jeremy has been calling out who gets the votes. Without Andrew, I am not sure that Tasha does not slide into the role of a Jeremy lieutenant.

[peachmangosteen]

They can't tell Jeff to shut up anymore than they can ask for an umbrella or a sandwich. His running commentary is part of the challenge.

 

Well, they can. It's just that he's not going to actually shut up if they do.

[Oscirus]

Yea, to mess with Jeff is to mess with your camera time. Most survivors don't want to do that.

[ljenkins782]

Well, they can. It's just that he's not going to actually shut up if they do.

Not only that, he'll probably hammer you 100 times harder with the commentary if you show it bothers you. 

 

Mike from last season was a great example of someone who could tune Jeff out, he zoned out in the beginning of these concentration challenges and didn't come back until he'd won. 

[slowpoked]

 

Thing is, that would have worked out very well for the obnoxious alliance who eventually wanted Mike gone anyway. Remember, Mike had to immunity win his way to the end. He hadn't pissed off Dan yet at that point but Rodney was planning to eventually go after Mike and go to the end with Carolyn, Will and Tyler. I actually don't think it would have changed things much for the NC. The other side would have still gunned for Joe because he was a threat and still go after Jenn once she had no idol left.

 

Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but didn't the other people gun for Mike only after he pulled off that stunt during the Survivor bidding? Before that he was top dog and everyone loved him. He only had the immunity win his way because he alienated his core alliance with that stunt he pulled.

Edited November 13, 2015 by slowpoked

[jsm1125]

Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but didn't the other people gun for Mike only after he pulled off that stunt during the Survivor bidding? Before that he was top dog and everyone loved him. He only had the immunity win his way because he alienated his core alliance with that stunt he pulled.

My impression is that he was already on the bottom of that large alliance, so the Survivor bidding incident was just an excuse for the rest of that alliance.

[truthaboutluv]

Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but didn't the other people gun for Mike only after he pulled off that stunt during the Survivor bidding? Before that he was top dog and everyone loved him. He only had the immunity win his way because he alienated his core alliance with that stunt he pulled.

 

No, he alienated Dan with that stunt which worked great for Rodney who had already been planning to go after him. Rodney got pissed off when Mike and company booted his buddy Jaoquin, right before the merge, when Rodney wanted Joe out. He pretty much made it clear after that that Mike was dead to him but he'd play nice and bide his time. As soon as they merged he secured a final four arrangement with Will, Carolyn and Tyler with the plan to get rid of Joe and company first and get Mike when he least suspected it. 

 

However because they weren't all a brain trust, they openly talked about this at one point in earshot of Mike. This was the same episode the auction happened when Mike did what he did, that pissed off Dan and Sierra. And then he later decided to confront Rodney and company when everyone wanted to read their letters, another blunder that pissed Dan off and at that point Mike was done.

 

I remembered thinking that I didn't understand why when Mike found out what Rodney and company were planning, he didn't quietly go to Sierra and Dan, who he was still close with and let them know what was happening and the three of them try to rally Jenn and Shirin and turn things on Rodney and company. Especially since Mike had shown he was fairly adept at the game up to that point. Instead he just blew up and played right into Rodney's hand. I mean he still won but he had to literally immunity win his way to do it, save for the idol he also had as well.

Edited November 13, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[slowpoked]

 

I think the thing I loved most about TC was that everyone seemed genuinely shocked, but most of the reactions I read were almost respect. I saw Joe and Jeremy flat-out smiling, almost like, "Well, look at that!" I even liked Ciera's reaction. Most people who have an alliance mate keep an idol from them act indignant and betrayed (*cough* Russel *cough*), but I think she actually said, "This is my favorite moment." I like when people show respect for a big move as opposed to righteous indignation.

 

 

Jeremy and Kimmi actually applauded the Andrew blindside.  I too enjoyed seeing true fans appreciate a great scene/play without immediately going angry over the consequences.

I loved seeing that too. Kimmi was clapping and appreciated the gameplay. Even Tasha was smiling. They are players but they are fans too, and I appreciate that these people can appreciate a great move when they see one.

 

At least from what I remember, this season so far has less people taking things personally compared to other seasons. I remember when Woo and Varner were pleading their case with Abi, no one got personal about it, and the arguments of why they should stay over the other were the merits of each other by being on camp, not using stuff such as this is my lifelong dream, please I'm gonna die if I go, etc. And when Woo and Varner finished their arguments, they even shook each other's hands as if to say, nothing personal, may the best man stay.

 

Kudos to Kelley for avoiding the temptation of telling Ciera and Abi that she has an idol right before they went to TC. You just never know what's going to happen when you tell someone you have an advantage, even an alliance-mate at that. Ciera could have gone mouthing off to Joe and this amazing TC would never have had happened.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Yes, I agree with you, but the counterpoint to that is Kass and Andrew flipping the bird.  Andrew took it very personally, LOL.

[KimberStormer]

Kimber, Hayden made his argument near the end of the game.  By then the lines of power had been drawn in the sand.

This season Ciera made her argument with nearly 2/3rds of the game left.   Just wait till tomorrow. 

 

She was, for all she knew, going home tonight, and last week.  It doesn't matter how much game is left, but how much game you personally have left!  She tried to let cracks emerge--none did.  Nine votes for Kelley, remember?  It could just as easily have been nine votes for Ciera.  Imagine standing on the Ponderosa scale, with the psychologist talking to you.  "How do you feel, Ciera?"  "Well, I had all these great arguments I could have presented, I could have fought a lot harder, but you know, there's nearly 2/3rds of the game left.  It's not the time to make moves.  I feel great going out without having done anything to save myself.  I have failed, but I do so knowing I didn't play too hard too soon, which, after all, is the real failure."

 

My feeling about Joe is, he has done well to make friends with everyone, including the people on the bottom.  But he's not playing well.  He knows he is a target the minute he fails to win immunity.  But he's not doing anything about it.  He'll try...when he doesn't have immunity, and it's too late to do anything. 

[truthaboutluv]

My feeling about Joe is, he has done well to make friends with everyone, including the people on the bottom.  But he's not playing well.  He knows he is a target the minute he fails to win immunity.  But he's not doing anything about it.  He'll try...when he doesn't have immunity, and it's too late to do anything.

 

 

That's how I felt about Joe last season. It wasn't so much he was a bad player but just a bit too passive. I thought he'd learned from that when we saw him making the Final 5 deal with Keith, Ciera, Kass and Wentworth but since then nothing. Except he was the one who alerted Wentworth to the fact that it most likely would have been her so it's possible he still is working to secure that pair of Ciera and Wentworth, should he need them to make a move. Or it's possible I'm giving him way too much credit. 

[kikaha]

She was, for all she knew, going home tonight, and last week.  It doesn't matter how much game is left, but how much game you personally have left!  She tried to let cracks emerge--none did.  Nine votes for Kelley, remember?  It could just as easily have been nine votes for Ciera. 

 

 

To me that shows how 100% ineffectual her approach was.  She convinced no one.  In fact, she may have done the opposite: galvanize others -- who might have been on the fence -- against her.  She put herself in this spot, with her awful play in the Woo boot.  Then she dug her hole even deeper.

 

Except he was the one who alerted Wentworth to the fact that it most likely would have been her so it's possible he still is working to secure that pair of Ciera and Wentworth, should he need them to make a move. Or it's possible I'm giving him way too much credit. 

 

I think Joe is absolutely trying to keep lines open with Wentworth/Ciera/Abi.  He knows he's a target, who cannot count on Bayon to keep him safe if/when he loses immunity. 

[himela]

Well, they can. It's just that he's not going to actually shut up if they do.

I don't think they have any right to tell Jeff anything. Jeff is one of the producers, he pays money for this and they knew this signing up for this game. Jeff is the master there and he can do whatever he likes (with respect to people of course). He has not been rude or offensive to anyone so everything else is fair game. Even if someone tells him to stop talking Jeff will just respond "just doing my job man".

[himela]

To me that shows how 100% ineffectual her approach was.  She convinced no one.  In fact, she may have done the opposite: galvanize others -- who might have been on the fence -- against her.  She put herself in this spot, with her awful play in the Woo boot.  Then she dug her hole even deeper.

But she may do all of this on purpose. The more people hate you, the more likely it is they will take you to the end with them so their chance of winning is bigger. Maybe Cierra WANTS to be the annoying girl who can't keep her mouth shut. Sadly for her we already have one such girl, and she has done a way better job for everyone to hate her: Abi. (I know, I know, I'm dead to her, whatever.)

[Skeeter22]

I have the feeling Jeff doesn't mind the contestants sassing him as long as it's good tv. He always seemed to enjoy sniping back and forth with Jonathan Penner during challenges.

[Ms Blue Jay]

From Cook Islands:

 

Jeff: "Penner, getting frustrated by this challenge."
Penner: "Oh, please."
Jeff: "Penner, now getting frustrated by ME!"

Edited November 13, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Bryce Lynch]

She was, for all she knew, going home tonight, and last week. It doesn't matter how much game is left, but how much game you personally have left! She tried to let cracks emerge--none did. Nine votes for Kelley, remember? It could just as easily have been nine votes for Ciera. Imagine standing on the Ponderosa scale, with the psychologist talking to you. "How do you feel, Ciera?" "Well, I had all these great arguments I could have presented, I could have fought a lot harder, but you know, there's nearly 2/3rds of the game left. It's not the time to make moves. I feel great going out without having done anything to save myself. I have failed, but I do so knowing I didn't play too hard too soon, which, after all, is the real failure."

My feeling about Joe is, he has done well to make friends with everyone, including the people on the bottom. But he's not playing well. He knows he is a target the minute he fails to win immunity. But he's not doing anything about it. He'll try...when he doesn't have immunity, and it's too late to do anything.

I think Joe will try to do something in the next episode. He did reactively try to get rid of Stephen and after the alliance turned down his plan, I suspect he will try to shake things up.

[riverheightsnancy]

Stephen looked like he was going to shit his pants as soon as Kelley stood up, however. 

 

Seriously, I cannot believe that he writes for a major publication on Survivor strategy with the way he plays. He looked like he was ready to vomit, cry, and poop his diaper all at the same time because his game is being ruined. Nervous Nelly. I think that his performance could hurt his job on the outside. How the hell is he any type of "expert"? He sucks and I cannot even remember him and JT. I must not have liked that season, because I remember nothing of it and the only season I didn't watch was Africa (I performed my own personal boycott because of the blood drinking). 

 

  Hera is right IMO: Jeremy is doing a great job keeping a low profile, even while he is the power behind the throne. 

In my opinion, Jeremy is playing the Boston Rob game at tribal. Be humble, look down, make no waves. Answer questions with an answer that sounds like an answer, but really is noncommittal and not upsetting to whatever alliance he is working with.  Be friendly to everyone and offer a cogent response for moving a vote to another person without being demanding or upset about it (like the way Stephan is all Joe-Joe- JOE!!!). He just offers a suggestion and lets others think that THEY thought of it. That is so Boston Rob and Jeremy is doing it perfectly. I remember so many times when Boston Rob would float out some line of BS at tribal, he would have this little twinkle in his eye, he would look down and try to act humble and sincere. Jeremy is doing the same thing.  Let others think that they are in control. Use them as shields. I strongly think he is tanking the challenges as well. Jeremy is in fantastic shape. He performs well enough to not be a hindrance, just not too good to be considered a major threat. I was not impressed with his first time around, but to me, he has winner written all over him. i would really like to see him win this. I do like Tasha and Wentworth, but Jeremy is my favorite at this point. And Keith and the Tuk-Tuk was Gold Jerry, GOLD!

[Sarahsmile416]

I like Jeremy although I admit I am a little confused at why some people assume he is basically throwing the immunity challenges to make it seem as if he is not that strong a threat. If he is, he's going out extra early. Besides the fact that players like Tasha and Spencer are just as likely to win as Joe most of the time. I don't remember him as a challenge beast in his season so isn't it possible that while he is certainly strong he may not be good at challenges. Particularly the endurance ones or concentration ones where it favors players like Joe, Spencer or Tasha who seem very good at blocking the periphery out...and while they may be fit are not as obviously muscular as Jeremy is. He is definitely playing a good game strategically, I just don't know that part of his strategy is "throwing" challenges to not appear as strong.

[Bryce Lynch]

I like Jeremy although I admit I am a little confused at why some people assume he is basically throwing the immunity challenges to make it seem as if he is not that strong a threat. If he is, he's going out extra early. Besides the fact that players like Tasha and Spencer are just as likely to win as Joe most of the time. I don't remember him as a challenge beast in his season so isn't it possible that while he is certainly strong he may not be good at challenges. Particularly the endurance ones or concentration ones where it favors players like Joe, Spencer or Tasha who seem very good at blocking the periphery out...and while they may be fit are not as obviously muscular as Jeremy is. He is definitely playing a good game strategically, I just don't know that part of his strategy is "throwing" challenges to not appear as strong.

Agree. When he goes out before Fishbach on a challenge I will believe he threw it.

[ghoulina]

Yes, I agree with you, but the counterpoint to that is Kass and Andrew flipping the bird.  Andrew took it very personally, LOL.

 

Hell, Andrew flipped the bird at the damn challenge when he lost. He just strikes me as an immature little boy with a bad temper. Other than him, though, I think I agree that people have been appreciating moves and not getting too worked up about stuff. 

[Hera]

My feeling about Joe is, he has done well to make friends with everyone, including the people on the bottom.  But he's not playing well.  He knows he is a target the minute he fails to win immunity.  But he's not doing anything about it.  He'll try...when he doesn't have immunity, and it's too late to do anything. 

This is my sense of Joe's game play as well. Additionally, I don't think it was too clever to go to Kelley, Abi, and Ciera about voting Stephen out and then reneging so that he could vote Kelley off with the Bayon 1 super-majority (and Kelly Wiglesworth). I realize he didn't have the numbers in the end, and that happens, but he shouldn't have gone to them unless he was certain he had Andrew and two other people willing to write Stephen's name down. The people on the chopping block will always vote to save their own skins, and telling them last leaves less time for them to play Joe/Andrew/Mystery 2 against the five people who were going to vote with Stephen. Instead, he got their hopes up and then pissed them off by having to go back and vote with the group that was gunning for them.

 

Yes, he let it slip to Ciera who the target was, but I think that was him trying to cultivate jury votes than it was about trying to help them out—after all, it's not like he knew about Kelley's idol. Speaking of which, it's likely that the idol bounce has hurt him, since it got rid of someone who was firmly on his side when it just as easily could have been used to bounce Stephen, who is out to get him, or Jeremy, who is protecting Stephen. What's more, Joe wasn't shown trying to flip anyone—Andrew was, and not doing a very good job of it. He and Joe should have been having private conversations, not holding court in a hammock, surrounded by everyone in their alliance.

 

Basically, I think Joe and Andrew half-assed trying to get Stephen out because Joe wasn't in any immediate danger any more and now it's cost Andrew the game and left Joe without a close ally. As a viewer, I don't mind because I don't like Andrew and think Joe's boring to watch, but this is kind of representative of why I don't think either one is a very good player. Joe seems to wait for allies to find him rather than to take any active steps to build an alliance himself (this week notwithstanding). Yeah, he's nice to people, but being nice is not the same as playing the social game. Andrew is just a classic type who believes that the only people who are worthwhile are the ones who are like him (or like how he likes to view himself): fit, athletic, and commanding. I'm glad people he has been dismissive of have managed to ruin his game twice now.

 

I don't think it would have taken very much to get two of Kelly Wiglesworth, Keith, or Spencer on board with their plan. Wiglesworth was there when Joe told Ciera the plan was off, so in reality, they may have only needed to give Keith or Spencer the hard sell. But instead, Andrew decided to talk to everyone at once, allowing Jeremy the chance to find out what was happening and to keep the group in line. I think if Joe and Andrew had switched places with Jeremy and Stephen, Jeremy and Stephen would have pulled this move off—or at least would have made a better attempt at it.

[violet and green]

But she may do all of this on purpose. The more people hate you, the more likely it is they will take you to the end with them so their chance of winning is bigger. Maybe Cierra WANTS to be the annoying girl who can't keep her mouth shut.

 

Sadly, she is the annoying girl who can't keep her mouth shut, or put a sock on the adolescent eye rolling. I found her whiny, entitled, arrogant, and rude in her last season. Her mother was a better player than her. Her angry little TH's about her mother ruining her game on B v W are now replaced by these rants about everyone ruining her game because they're not playing her game.

[kikaha]

But she may do all of this on purpose. The more people hate you, the more likely it is they will take you to the end with them so their chance of winning is bigger. Maybe Cierra WANTS to be the annoying girl who can't keep her mouth shut.

If so, then her complaints about so many people 'not playing the game' really are two-faced.  She's purposely becoming the very goat she's ripped into at tribal. 

[Rick Kitchen]

Is this the fewest votes for a boot on record?

 

It would have been awesome if the three women who voted for Andrew had split their vote Andrew/Jeremy/Stephen and then watched as the alliance had to vote for one of their own.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Jeremy is definitely throwing ICs (in my opinion).  I am not saying he would necessarily beat Joe.  I am saying he'd place higher than he does if he was playing at full capacity which I do not think he is.  He purposefully does it in a way to not draw attention to himself.  Of course he doesn't drop out before Fishbach, come on man!  He waits until he's in the middle.   Maybe for this balls challenge he tried 100% because this one was so beyond random on who could get to the final stages.  (Wind, etc.)  But that last Individual challenge yes I believe he threw it.  He waited until Tasha was done and then he was immediately done too.

 

For group challenges, I totally believe he is giving it his all.  But not individual, no way.  

 

Rick Kitchen, that was 3 votes for Andrew.  I'm sure that happens a lot in the smaller tribal councils!

Edited November 13, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[violet and green]

I thought Tasha was very subtle in her work on Angkor. She and Andrew came in to an existing tribe of four and she deftly explored the cracks and massaged the right egos. Lucky for them Abi is a spite-voter. Even Tash seemed amazed they were able to finagle their way into a power position, having arrived as two obvious early boots.

[FlyingEgret]

I am probably giving Keith too much credit, but when he first went over to the tuk-tuk, I thought he was looking for an Immunity Idol (or at least a clue)...