S02.E05: The Gift Of The Magi

[Ohwell]

I'm liking this season's episodes much better than last season's.  Damn this show is good.

[benteen]

When Brad Garrett was running through the woods, I was kind of hoping that a bull would be loose from a farm and gore him in the ass. Oops, sorry. Upper thigh.

 

Love that reference.  I think I was thinking the same thing.

[AuntiePam]

 

Love that reference.  I think I was thinking the same thing.

 

Fill me in -- the only thing I've seen Garrett in is Everybody Loves Raymond. 

[becauseIsaidso]

Well, as much as I like this series, I was rather disappointed in some parts of this episode....I really wanted Ed to die, I just don't like the character and don't see any purpose to him...but I'm sure the writers do, so I'll hang in there....even so I can't buy wifey's (Peggy? - can't seem to remember her name) sudden turnaround...I haven't either liked or disliked Kirsten Dunst before now, but I just don't buy it....my disbelief is definitely NOT suspended with her, and I am usually the sort who goes there so easily that I am excellent audience material.

 

I did like the contrast between Charlie and Dodd as kids, albeit of different ages...Dodd has clearly been the cold hearted bad seed from the get go, whereas Charlie talks a good game - more to gain acceptance/respect IMNSHO - but just can't follow through when push comes to shove,  and I kinda like him and hope (maybe with a bit of compassion and some sort of miracle from Lou) he can just redeem himself.

 

I feel very bad for Hanzee...I think he's out in the cold, regardless of his value to the family....most telling was the scene where he took a drink from a hose hooked up to the porch and then ate something he pulled out of his knapsack (as if it held all he had in the world), which he then hefted over his shoulder as he walked away when Dodd came to interrupt/challenge his conversion with - is it Bear? - don't have all the names straight yet, so I'm likely to make some mistakes...I get the feeling Hanzee is doing as best he feels he can with the lot he has been dealt in life - his face during the conversation between himself, Dodd and Floyd about the 'butrcher of Luveren' was a portrait of sad acceptance...

 

Floyd rocks.....

 

Mike Milligan/whatever, scares me as I get the feeling he has always been ice cold, just paced in how soon he would let it show, crafting those moments where his prey finally realizes exactly what they have gotten themselves into, and relishing the terror he can instill in those who fear him - unlike Lester of last season who seemed to come into his badness like a sudden epiphany - I do not think it was any accident that Mike wasn't in the 'field' on the day of the massacre, no matter whose orders he follows, he is still gonna look out for himself first and foremost....

 

I have seen Ted Danson do some good stuff before, but have never loved him as I did in this episode; in this season, those scenes are going to be the stuff of  heartbreaking helplessness, which, when all is said and done, reminds me that this is a story about the human condition.

 

I want to see Dodd dead, painfully and slowly;  there is simply nothing redeeming about him.

 

I don't recall hearing anything last season about Lou's FIL, whether he was alive or dead like Lou's wife - but I get a vibe that he doesn't make it out of this season alive....that's kinda of a shame as I think there could be some terrific scenes between Lou and (is it?- Hank) about missing Betsy and taking care of Molly...

 

All in all, I'll definitely be tuned in next week

[FoundTime]

Wasn't Lou injured in what he referred to (in S1) as the "Massacre at Sioux Falls"? With 12 dead in this shootout I'm feeling an increased sense of dread as to what Sioux Falls is gonna be like.

Edited November 11, 2015 by FoundTime

[dustylil]

Fill me in -- the only thing I've seen Garrett in is Everybody Loves Raymond

 

Actually, it is an Everybody Loves Raymond reference. In a Season 4 episode Police Officer Robert and his partner Judy break up an illegal street rodeo. As the animals are being rounded up, a bull gets loose and is about to attack Judy. To save her Robert distracts the bull and gets gored In the backside in the process. He is hospitalized and then has to stay with Marie and Frank until he recovers.

[Inquisitionist]

Wasn't Lou injured in what he referred to (in S1) as the "Massacre at Sioux Falls"? With 12 dead in this shootout I'm feeling an increased sense of dread as to what Sioux Falls is gonna be like.

 

Don't remember the specifics, but in a late S1 episode, Lou pins his injury on something unrelated to these events. But damn, the body count is already half-way to the ceiling and we still have Sioux Falls to go?

[bosawks]

I think Season 1 Lou says his injury was a result of a traffic stop.

[shapeshifter]

Betsy Solverson is nauseated and hopes this means she's not taking a sugar pill.

I am wondering: Does cancer alone cause nausea without chemo?

Or maybe she's pregnant and has the placebo. :>(

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Fargo Gives Us The Solversons As A Reminder That Families Can Be Better Than Merely 'Functional'
Which is important, because all the other families this season are past 'dysfunctional' and actively devouring themselves.

[ChipBach]

When Brad Garrett was running through the woods, I was kind of hoping that a bull would be loose from a farm and gore him in the ass. Oops, sorry. Upper thigh.

What I could not understand is how he was carrying a rifle, Hanzee had no weapon other than a knife and Brad ended up beheaded.  It seemed he had advantage with the deer rifle.  Did I miss something?

[Deanie87]

Floyd needs to take a page out of Mags Bennett's mothering handbook (Justified reference, if you haven't seen it - watch it now, its that good!) and get her son under control in one way or another.  The way she was watching Dodd with his daughter at the end of the episode gave me pause and it does seem like something untoward has been going on and Floyd is aware of it.  It may be that Dodd is just a bully when it comes to his kids, or it may be something worse, but I have a feeling that Floyd is going to be dealing with Dodd at some point.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Deanie87

[Catherinewriter]

Don't understand the title. In "The Gift of the Magi" by O Henry, the two people each sacrifice something for the other. In this episode, Betsy gives up her dream  and sells the car for money so Ed can buy the butcher shop, but what does Ed sacrifice for her?

 

I'm such an idiot. It's taken me all this time to realize that Alison Tolman in Fargo Season 1 is the daughter of Patrick Wilson in Fargo Season 2 and that Keith Carradine (season 1) and Wilson (season 2) are the same character. I could not understand why commentors kept saying they were happy that Lou made it through this season alive. How would they know that?

 

And by the by, isn't there a whole lot more killing in this season than last? I mean, geez!

[SunnyBeBe]

Why is Simone betraying her family?  I missed the beginning of the season.  Is she just bored, addicted or did her dad abuse her?  The way he threatened her, made me think he might have hurt her before.  He grandmother stepped in, but sometimes family members look the other way if it's sexual abuse. 

[Eyes High]

Charlie and Noreen were so cute. 

 

Even though I know it was just delaying his inevitable doom and his eventual death will likely be a lot messier than a mere strangulation, it was thrilling to see Ed fight back against the hitman.

 

Don't remember the specifics, but in a late S1 episode, Lou pins his injury on something unrelated to these events. But damn, the body count is already half-way to the ceiling and we still have Sioux Falls to go?

 

Molly in Season 1 mentions being pulled out of Algebra class to be told about her father's injury. Little Season 2 Molly is nowhere near old enough for Algebra class.

 

Whatever happens in Sioux Falls is going to have to dwarf everything that's happened so far, including the massacre of Joe Bulo's guys in 2x05. Aren't we already at the "If you stacked them, you'd reach the second floor" stage by this point? 

[cpcathy]

So do we think Ed will not make it out of the series alive? I didn't watch season one so I'm not sure how the show is about killing off main characters.

[Dev F]

Don't understand the title. In "The Gift of the Magi" by O Henry, the two people each sacrifice something for the other. In this episode, Betsy gives up her dream  and sells the car for money so Ed can buy the butcher shop, but what does Ed sacrifice for her?

 

It's a tongue-in-cheek reference and not entirely literal, but the gist of it is that Peggy gave up her plans of leaving town to obtain the money for Ed to buy the butcher shop, while Ed came around to Peggy's idea of leaving town by burning down the butcher shop.

[knaankos]

What I could not understand is how he was carrying a rifle, Hanzee had no weapon other than a knife and Brad ended up beheaded.  It seemed he had advantage with the deer rifle.  Did I miss something?

 

Yeah I didn't get this either. And I don't remembering him firing it, so he could;t have been out of bullets

[ToastnBacon]

I'm sure Hanzee had a handgun or two stashed on him.

He snuck up on the Kitchen Brothers at the end of the melee, cut one's throat and knocked the other out cold.

They didn't show it, but I think we are safe to assume he disarmed the Kitchen Brother while he was out, then took his time cutting off Brad's head, so the Kitchen Brother that he let live could carry it back to Milligan and the KC boss.

I just watched Brad's demise again.

We aren't show how he dies, but we are shown him coming back to the cars, panicked and out of breath.

Hanzee is there in front of the cars, calm and coldly staring at him. With the way Hanzee's character has been established, we are supposed conclude that Hanzee made easy work of a shaken and scared Brad.

Oh, and Brad did fire the deer rifle a couple of times as he fled, both shots were very clumsy.

Edited November 11, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[ChipBach]

I'm sure Hanzee had a handgun or two stashed on him.

He snuck up on the Kitchen Brothers at the end of the melee, cut one's throat and knocked the other out cold.

They didn't show it, but I think we are safe to assume he disarmed the Kitchen Brother while he was out, then took his time cutting off Brad's head, so the Kitchen Brother that he let live could carry it back to Milligan and the KC boss.

I just watched Brad's demise again.

We aren't show how he dies, but we are shown him coming back to the cars, panicked and out of breath.

Hanzee is there in front of the cars, calm and coldly staring at him. With the way Hanzee's character has been established, we are supposed conclude that Hanzee made easy work of a shaken and scared Brad.

 

I guess, however he clearly had a rifle and was face to face with Hanzee with a distance between them, seems he could have at least faked Hanzee out if he happened to be out of ammo.  Hanzee did not have a gun in his hand when they came across each other.  I would guess that Joe's death might be further explained as a flashback or something.  The show is pretty meticulous about attention to deets.

[ToastnBacon]

I guess, however he clearly had a rifle and was face to face with Hanzee with a distance between them, seems he could have at least faked Hanzee out if he happened to be out of ammo.  Hanzee did not have a gun in his hand when they came across each other.  I would guess that Joe's death might be further explained as a flashback or something.  The show is pretty meticulous about attention to deets.

You've got a point, but I liked the way they did it. I think it created a much better payoff when the hatbox was opened.

[chinatown]

One of my favorite dynamics on this show is between Dodd and Charlie. Dodd is a soulless bastard towards everyone else but seems to have a soft spot for his nephew. Or maybe he just amuses him? Not sure, but I think he does care about him. I'm eager to see how the botched shooting will affect their relationship. Will Dodd be concerned for Charlie first or just be angry that Ed isn't dead?

 

There's no way Charlie's not going to do time for this, right? There goes school, which will now piss off Bear even more. Speaking of whom, I'm glad he got more to do in this episode than eat and point at people with a turkey leg. He won me over by crying over the news about Rye and for his conversation with Hanzee.

 

How many people live in the Gerhardt house? It doesn't look that big, not big enough for 3 generations of a family, anyway.

[Eyes High]

There's no way Charlie's not going to do time for this, right?

 

Depending on where on his body he was shot, he could be facing far bigger problems than potentially going to prison.

 

For someone so dim, Ed demonstrated unusual presence of mind when going up against the hitman. He reacted to Noreen's warning and ducked out of the way. He chucked a pan at the hitman when aimed at him, and he managed to defeat the hitman in combat despite the hitman having a gun (albeit with an assist from Noreen). He used improvised weapons three times to dispose of the hitman: the pan, whatever it was he used to get the hitman off him when the hitman was choking him, and the cleaver. Well done.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Eyes High

[Conan Troutman]

So do we think Ed will not make it out of the series alive? I didn't watch season one so I'm not sure how the show is about killing off main characters.

 

I guess that really depends on what choices he's going to make from now on, same for Peggy. The Coen brothers movies (as well as season one of the show) tend to kill off innocents, but rarely major characters. Main characters are usually punished or rewarded for their behavior. While Ed and Peggy certainly have committed some misdeeds, none are unforgivable or compare to what Jerry or Lester did in the movie and the first season, respectively. So if they finally learn their lesson, I'm predicting they'll get out of it relatively unscathed, at least physically (they already lost their car and the butcher shop, their house could be next). Though Peggy's boss might get caught in the crossfire, figuratively or literally. 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I must have completely missed something...if anyone can fill me in, I'd appreciate it!  We had the ambush at the clinic and Otto was spared.  So,soon thereafter, we have the scene at the table when Hanzee returns Rye's belt buckle and son and so forth.  Why on earth wasn't Floyd already spitting fire?  Why wasn;t Dodd going on and on and on about the ambush and how KC had fired the first shots?   It was as if nothing had happened.

 

I totally get why and how Dodd got Hmazee to lie to Floyd about Rye's death.  I'm referring to before Hanzee walked in to that room.

 

It's fine that the hit man and Charlie messed up the hit on Ed.  Yet, again for me, the actual staging of it was a hot mess.  Hawley does not do these scenes well.  There is no way that stone cold and experienced killer would have missed Ed from that range.  His adrenaline was already up, so the sudden movement by Ed would not have been enough of a surprise.  We also have to buy that Charlie's weapon would jam.  Too much.  

 

Mike saw opportunity, and he would also be counting his lucky stars that he had a need to be elsewhere right after conferring with Bulo.  He is now living on borrowed time.  Man, does that make him dangerous!

 

I remember how Camus enjoyed a major bump in appreciation by so many young in the late 70s.  I kniow I was made to read him in school.  To me, that was the most deft touch of this whole episode.  Super smart.  Brilliant.

[Bort]

One of my favorite dynamics on this show is between Dodd and Charlie. Dodd is a soulless bastard towards everyone else but seems to have a soft spot for his nephew. Or maybe he just amuses him? Not sure, but I think he does care about him. I'm eager to see how the botched shooting will affect their relationship. Will Dodd be concerned for Charlie first or just be angry that Ed isn't dead?

Dodd likes Charlie because he's a boy. Dodd wanted a son and he doesn't have one, so he tries to usurp Charlie from Bear, partly out of jealousy that Bear got a son and he didn't.

[Armchair Critic]

Where are Dodd and his brother's wives? Does the whole family live in one house? Glad Floyd stopped Dodd from threatening his daughter, I can see why she rebels.

[Eyes High]

While Ed and Peggy certainly have committed some misdeeds, none are unforgivable or compare to what Jerry or Lester did in the movie and the first season, respectively. 

 

I think that all of the deaths Ed and Peggy have directly caused so far in the season have been in self-defence (or accidental, as with Rye). Ed even saved the life of one of his would-be assassins (albeit only because Noreen begged him to, but he could have refused). If they "graduate" to killing people for other reasons--eliminate witnesses, money, what have you--I would write them off as doomed. As it is, I think Ed and Peggy aren't quite in Lester territory...yet.

[Nutjob]

 

The Coen brothers movies (as well as season one of the show) tend to kill off innocents, but rarely major characters. Main characters are usually punished or rewarded for their behavior.

There are some pretty glaring exceptions to this, though, particulrly

No Country For Old Men and Burn After Reading.

I'd also argue that two main characters in season one of this series, Lorne Malvo and Lester Nygaard, were killed in the final act.

 

 

I think that all of the deaths Ed and Peggy have directly caused so far in the season have been in self-defence (or accidental, as with Rye). Ed even saved the life of one of his would-be assassins (albeit only because Noreen begged him to, but he could have refused). If they "graduate" to killing people for other reasons--eliminate witnesses, money, what have you--I would write them off as doomed. As it is, I think Ed and Peggy aren't quite in Lester territory...yet.

This is an important point--Ed and Peggy's sins thus far are sins of omission. Their only crimes have come by failing to admit/report what happened. Had Peggy stayed on the scene and called in Rye's death, the law would have protected them from the Gerhardts rather than looking for them in relation to any of the crimes. But no... Peggy had to get all squirrelly.

[Milburn Stone]

For someone so dim, Ed demonstrated unusual presence of mind when going up against the hitman.

 

That's an interesting and true observation. Possibly it can be accounted for just the same way Existentialist Girl discovered her own instincts for self-preservation kicking in, despite what Camus was telling her.

[Conan Troutman]

I think that all of the deaths Ed and Peggy have directly caused so far in the season have been in self-defence (or accidental, as with Rye). Ed even saved the life of one of his would-be assassins (albeit only because Noreen begged him to, but he could have refused). If they "graduate" to killing people for other reasons--eliminate witnesses, money, what have you--I would write them off as doomed. As it is, I think Ed and Peggy aren't quite in Lester territory...yet.

 

Yep, that's what I meant. Both Lester and Jerry committed far worse crimes for personal gain.

 

There are some pretty glaring exceptions to this, though, particulrly

No Country For Old Men and Burn After Reading.

I'd also argue that two main characters in season one of this series, Lorne Malvo and Lester Nygaard, were killed in the final act.

 

This is an important point--Ed and Peggy's sins thus far are sins of omission. Their only crimes have come by failing to admit/report what happened. Had Peggy stayed on the scene and called in Rye's death, the law would have protected them from the Gerhardts rather than looking for them in relation to any of the crimes. But no... Peggy had to get all squirrelly.

 

That's why I said "rarely". But the "for personal gain" theme still holds true:

Llewelyn took money that clearly wasn't for him for the taking, thus challenging karma (never a good idea in a Coen movie...). Brad Pitt's character resorted to both blackmail and treason.

I'd argue the motive for the crime is far more important than the crime itself. Peggy and Ed didn't (try to) gain anything, in fact, it already cost them.

 

Lou may have saved their lives (at least for now) when he came to arrest them at the end of the episode, although the Gerhardts certainly won't stop at anything to get their revenge. So maybe we don't get some shootout at the waterfalls (we already had one in the country side this week), but the massacre takes place at whatever police building in Sioux Falls Lou takes the Blomquists to.

[cpcathy]

So, is the consensus for next episode that Hank's going to get it?

[Ohwell]

Where are Dodd and his brother's wives? Does the whole family live in one house? Glad Floyd stopped Dodd from threatening his daughter, I can see why she rebels.

I've wondered where the wives are, too.  I hope they somehow address that mystery.

[shapeshifter]

I've wondered where the wives are, too.  I hope they somehow address that mystery.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Gerhardt wives (except Floyd) had all left their husbands--both because they seem to be without empathy, and because they are likely more devoted to their mother than to a wife.

[ChipBach]

It wouldn't surprise me if the Gerhardt wives (except Floyd) had all left their husbands--both because they seem to be without empathy, and because they are likely more devoted to their mother than to a wife.

I don't know.  Bear seemed pretty protective of his wife, I got the impression that he was respectful of her.  (And he champions Floyd as boss)

[polyhymnia]

I think it will be interesting if Dodd and Hanzee embellish "The Butcher's" reputation even more now that he proved to be stalwart in a fight against one of their actual hitman.  Self-fulfilling prophecy, almost, as they made him out to be a bad-ass killer and he turns out to coincidentally kill one of their guys in that type of fashion.

 

I thought the scene with Mike Mulligan and the Gehrhardt daughter was a little off.  I don't know that it made a hell of a lot of sense for her to be visiting with him at the time she did and for him to not be the with the rest of the KC gang - I feel like I missed something. 

 

Bear crying about Rye was oddly touching and a great context to Dodd using it as a way to manipulate Floyd.

[Armchair Critic]

Charlie is a cutie and I hope he can get out of this and make something of himself outside of the family.

 

Peggy and Ed calling each other "hon" is annoyingly funny.

 

 

 

 

[coconutcookie]

I love the hints of things to come:  the butcher shop, one could guess that someone would encounter the meat grinder; Hanzee chopping someone's ears off, no problem beheading someone; Brad and Mike discussing soft water (which I hate) and Mike touching Brad's hair in ep. 3, and then Mike taking the lid off the hat box and touching Brad's severed head's hair in ep. 5. 

 

The first season was great and I couldn't imagine what they would do with season 2, but it is just as good if not better.  Maybe they can tease out a season 3.  I hope so.  I think Kirsten Dunst if fabulous.  IMO she has been forgettable in just about everything I've seen her in, but she is terrific in this and fun to watch.

[ToastnBacon]

I've wondered where the wives are, too.  I hope they somehow address that mystery.

Dodd definitely referred to Bear's wife in the past tense when he was taunting him about her using a strap-on.

[Eyes High]

Charlie is a cutie and I hope he can get out of this and make something of himself outside of the family.

 

Realistically, though, if the Gerhardts are destroyed, Charlie would surely get taken down with the rest of them, wouldn't he? The only way he makes it out of this, assuming he's not going straight to prison, is either getting as far away from his family as he can or if the Gerhardts are still powerful enough at the end of the season to protect him from rival criminal concerns. That doesn't seem terribly likely, at this stage, unless Bear gets it together.

 

However, I'm rooting for Charlie, and I'm shipping Charlie/Noreen so hard. I saw more chemistry in that little exchange than I see in most romantic comedies.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Eyes High

[ToastnBacon]

I fear you guys are being hopelessly romantic over Charlie and Noreen. I don't think they have a chance.

[knaankos]

Noreen is a cutie

[Eyes High]

I fear you guys are being hopelessly romantic over Charlie and Noreen. I don't think they have a chance.

 

Probably not, for the reasons I mentioned--I can't see things ending well for Charlie at this point, and his best case scenario probably involves prison--but they were so cute together.

 

One thing that's bothering me about the season so far is that we have so little sense of why Hanzee is so loyal to Dodd in particular, even to the point of endangering the other members of the Gerhardt clan by supporting Dodd's lie about the Butcher of Luverne. Why is Hanzee content to be Dodd's lackey and to be treated as his property? If he feels he owes a debt, surely the debt would be to Otto, who took him in, not to Dodd. Also, Hanzee is clearly much smarter and much more capable than Dodd. Why be content to be his stooge and to be talked down to and ordered around? What does he get out of it?

 

The little bit of information we have learned about Hanzee hasn't really assisted in determining why he is happy to play this role and why he is so loyal to Dodd, even when that loyalty endangers the rest of the family. We know that he was unimpressed by a magic trick; that he's a dab hand at trapping rabbits; that he's immune to Simone's clumsy attempts at flirtation ("Sometimes a girl just wants to bust a nut, ya know?"); and that he has horrible memories of being forced to be a tunnel rat in Vietnam on account of his being Native American. It's...something, I guess, but not enough.

 

The easiest explanations that come to mind are that either Dodd helped him once in a big way, that Hanzee is so traumatized by Vietnam that he doesn't think he deserves anything better than being Dodd's minion, or that Hanzee's in love with Dodd. All of these would be a bit trite, but at least they would be something. What bothers me more is the possibility that we may never find out, and I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea of Hanzee remaining this inscrutable, mysterious figure who appears to accept his apparent lot in life as Dodd's slave for no reason, due to the obvious racial dynamics at play (Native American gracefully accepting his life of servitude under his white superiors, who treat him like a servant at best, property at worst).

Edited November 13, 2015 by Eyes High

[cali1981]

Betsy Solverson is nauseated and hopes this means she's not taking a sugar pill.

I am wondering: Does cancer alone cause nausea without chemo?

Or maybe she's pregnant and has the placebo. :>(

They've never clearly stated where  the primary location of her cancer is but certain varieties could cause nausea if they've spread to or originate in the GI system and disrupt digestion.  Oral chemo drugs can cause nausea as much as IV drugs.  Betsy may have the real drug but if she has the placebo, her mind could will her body to be nauseous to convince her that she's got the real stuff. 

[shapeshifter]

One thing that's bothering me about the season so far is that we have so little sense of why Hanzee is so loyal to Dodd in particular, even to the point of endangering the other members of the Gerhardt clan by supporting Dodd's lie about the Butcher of Luverne. Why is Hanzee content to be Dodd's lackey and to be treated as his property? If he feels he owes a debt, surely the debt would be to Otto, who took him in, not to Dodd. Also, Hanzee is clearly much smarter and much more capable than Dodd. Why be content to be his stooge and to be talked down to and ordered around? What does he get out of it?... 

The easiest explanations that come to mind are that either Dodd helped him once in a big way, that Hanzee is so traumatized by Vietnam that he doesn't think he deserves anything better than being Dodd's minion...

What bothers me more is the possibility that we may never find out, and I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea of Hanzee remaining this inscrutable, mysterious figure who appears to accept his apparent lot in life as Dodd's slave for no reason, due to the obvious racial dynamics at play (Native American gracefully accepting his life of servitude under his white superiors, who treat him like a servant at best, property at worst).

All of the parts I quoted above seem possible to me, but another possibility is a sort of Survivor (the TV show) scenario. Maybe Hanzee is last in line in the old man's will, and he intends to be the last man standing. I've only ever watched one episode of Survivor--I think it was the end of the first season--but IIRC, the winner makes alliances with the stiffest competition--in this case, Dodd.

[Eyes High]

All of the parts I quoted above seem possible to me, but another possibility is a sort of Survivor (the TV show) scenario. Maybe Hanzee is last in line in the old man's will, and he intends to be the last man standing. I've only ever watched one episode of Survivor--I think it was the end of the first season--but IIRC, the winner makes alliances with the stiffest competition--in this case, Dodd.

 

Interesting. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer and all that.

 

Given Hanzee's background in Vietnam, I wonder if we're meant to think that his callous approach to causing suffering and death and cool detachment are a result of his traumatic experiences in the war, or whether they're meant to lead us to believe that he's just another sociopath "born wrong" like Lester and Malvo from Season 1.

 

Another interesting thing to me is that Simone hates her father to the point of urging Mike to kill him but seems to get along just fine with Hanzee, even though Hanzee has likely been complicit in her father's abusive behaviour towards her mother and physically (and possibly sexually) abusive behaviour towards her; Floyd intervenes when Dodd threatens Simone with "the fist or the knife," but Hanzee stands idly by when Dodd slaps Simone, grabs her by the hair and manhandles her into the car. It seems strange to me that if Simone loathes her father for abusing her and her mother, she doesn't at the very least resent Hanzee, the man who shrugged his shoulders at that abuse. Maybe it's just another form of the Gerhardts treating Hanzee as property and therefore incapable of making his own decisions, so anything he does or doesn't do is on his "owner" and not on him. I don't know.

 

With respect to the sexual abuse thing, I can buy that Simone's comment about her father "getting hard" at the prospect of hitting her was some spur of the moment comment aimed to provoke. Dodd's attitude towards her sexuality and comments about her body--she's "embarrassing" him with her open coat, noting that she doesn't wear a bra, etc.--makes me wonder if there's something more to it.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Eyes High

[ToastnBacon]

All of the parts I quoted above seem possible to me, but another possibility is a sort of Survivor (the TV show) scenario. Maybe Hanzee is last in line in the old man's will, and he intends to be the last man standing. I've only ever watched one episode of Survivor--I think it was the end of the first season--but IIRC, the winner makes alliances with the stiffest competition--in this case, Dodd.

We are working with so little information on Hanzee's backstory, but I got the impression that he is some sort of adopted son to Otto. Hanzee seems much more than just a hired hand.

His status in the family seemed to be that of a bastard son as far as Dodd is concerned, but who knows how Hanzee sees himself in the family.

He does appear to have some kind of status in the family, but it is unclear how much.

I think it is a safe assumption that Otto valued Hanzee as being a capable man, and a protector of the family, possibly more.

I wish we knew how Otto viewed Hanzee.

Even asshole Dodd respected Hanzee enough to ask if he was going to back him in taking the throne over Floyd and Bear.

Bear's little speech to Hanzee seemed more like an appeal to him to switch sides in the internal power struggle.

I'm hoping we get another flashback that reveals how Hanzee was brought into the family.

Edited November 13, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[Nutjob]

 

With respect to the sexual abuse thing, I can buy that Simone's comment about her father "getting hard" at the prospect of hitting her was some spur of the moment comment aimed to provoke. Dodd's attitude towards her sexuality and comments about her body--she's "embarrassing" him with her open coat, noting that she doesn't wear a bra, etc.--makes me wonder if there's something more to it.

I take it more as Dodd resisting the whole Women's Lib attitude that Simone has picked up--he's still stuck in the 40's, 50's and early 60's attitudes of his his formative years, and now he's got this daughter who has adopted the braless, sexual revolution, independent woman attitude of the 70's and he just can't handle it. Simone challenges every notion Dodd has about what a woman's place is supposed to be, and it makes him feel like a failure both as a man and a father.

[hendersonrocks]

The opening scene showing Reagan's campaign bus on a country road is the closest thing yet to the actual landscape of Luverne & the surrounding environs. 

 

A real life fun fact involving Luverne and presidential candidates: Rick Santorum visited Luverne during his 2012 campaign and won 83.6% of the vote in Rock County's Republican presidential caucus that year. He was supposed to speak at the Pizza Ranch (natch) but so many people wanted to hear him that they moved the event to the historic theater next door (the same place Ken Burns premiered The War a few years earlier) and he swung by the Pizza Ranch afterwards to say hi. I love my hometown and its people, but I think if I ever moved back I'd singlehandedly increase the Dem's voter base by a double digit percentage.

 

And gosh darn it if that scene between Betsy and her dad didn't take my breath away.

[AuntiePam]

hendersonrocks, since you've lived in the area -- is it at all likely that in 1979 (or any time), Peggy would have been able to get from home to Luverne on a bus?  I'm a Midwesterner, and I know that in years past, people in small towns traveled a lot by train -- every little town had a depot. 

 

But to my knowledge, there has never been any bus service around here except Greyhound.  And Greyhound isn't used for commuting. 

 

It's a minor nitpick, but seeing Peggy and Ed on a bus takes me out of the story.  If their car wasn't working, they would have gotten a ride from a friend.