S03.E06: This Red Lady From Caribee

[OnceSane]

Pandora unleashes a monster that haunts Sleepy Hollow residents at night, which tempts Abbie and Jenny to face a painful chapter of their lives. Meanwhile, Ichabod draws on his own experiences to offer Abbie advice when she must make an important decision about her career.

[Enero]

Can someone explain what just happened with Pandora because I’m completely confused? I’m very disappointed that she bloomed her tree then disappeared into the tree without us getting any insight into what she’s up to.

 

I was also confused by Agent Reynolds rant to Abbie in the cave.

 

I really liked how they shot the fire on the grill and knife at the start of Chloe and Crane’s date scene. When the scene first started it was hard to know what was going on. I didn’t know if we were going to get Pandora or the witnesses dealing with some evil. I also liked how the Pandora scene was shot where the scene moved upside down and around, very strange and interesting.

 

Loved Abbie’s new hair style. I couldn’t tell if it was her hair, a weave or a wig. At times it looked like all three, but it looked really good.

 

I enjoyed seeing Grace Dixon.  I wish we’d see more of her.

 

The Caribbean guy grabbing Jenny in the shop was C.R.E.E.P.Y.

 

So was Corbin a straight up crook? Or was he a crook, who was also on a mission to fight evil? I'm thinking he was the latter, but would like to know more.

 

Some parts of the ending was kind of weird and seemed grossly out of place, specifically Crane’s date with Chloe. Everything else worked fine.

 

I fear for Jenny. I hope she told the gang that the stone dissolved into her body.

 

I’m definitely going to have to watch this episode again to try and get a better understanding of some of the scenes.

 

This episode has some strong moments, but wasn’t as good as the ones from the past few weeks. Though I like Pandora, I'm finding that I'm more intrigued by Jenny and Joe's storyline.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Enero

[MrsRafaelBarba]

So Ichy took his new boo to Beni Hana, on Abbie's dime.

RME...

[CalamityBoPeep]

Worried for Jenny now, in a big way.  I thought for a minute that Joe really had sold out Jenny, so was relieved to see her there.  Good fake-out, Show.

 

I thought the Grace Dixon/Betsy Ross scene worked pretty well.  If we must have Betsy Ross, non-"flirty" Betsy Ross is the type to have, because at least she's tolerable then, though the actress that plays Grace still outshines her.  Nikki Reed is just not that strong in this role, no matter who she's acting with.

 

I also enjoyed some of the camera angles, Enero... the shots in the restaurant and that Pandora-upside-down shot, were pretty interesting.  Put me in mind of season 1 with the upside-down squad car on the wet pavement.  

 

Still confused about Pandora's ultimate plan, but she's clearly upped the ante, so I'm still along for the ride.

 

And the Danny/Abbie scene, where he basically unloaded his subconscious on her... so sad.  My poor Abbie.  And now she's aware of all that, while he's forgotten he's said any of it.   Loved seeing Ichabod gently opening the discussion about Danny, and her going just a bit further with it.  She didn't slam that metaphorical door shut, at least. 

 

All in all, a pretty good episode, though I could do without swarms of anything wasp-like ever being the MOTW again.  That was creepy.  <shudder>

[janeta]

Missed it; power failure. Wahhh! -throws tantrum-

[TrininisaScorp]

I'm Trinidadian (check the handle), so I had a total "omgeenofreakingway" reaction to the Soucouyant folklore getting pulled in.  My older cousins would tell us stories about the old lady who could turn herself into animals b/c of her deal with devil and come after you! It wasn't exactly a jackspanya (wh/ again, another throwback to my childhood), but cool thing.  I have more reactions about the episode, but I had to run in here and share my cultural random shoutout.  

 

We're going to disregard the entire thing with Jenny's shadow benny hookup.   I'm not even going to go there with his accent (really, man?!) and I hate to break the magic, but shadow benny is culantro.  You can get that crap at any caribbean or asian market.  LOL.

Edited November 6, 2015 by TrininisaScorp

[tennisgurl]

Pandora is just so awesome. I love a baddie with a good sense of style, and a flair for the dramatic. When Crane was talking about what her evil plan could be, I literally said out loud "she wants to steal ALL of the Halloween candy". 

 

Good episode. We still have no idea what Pandoras deal is, but at least she seems to have moved onto phase two. Whatever that may be. 

 

Poor Jenny. She has enough issues, she does not need more magic crap going on. 

 

The cinematography in this episode looked really nice.

 

I am still convinced that Pandora and Betsy Ross are connected. Why else would she constantly be dealing with the creatures that Pandora keeps bringing up?  

 

Loved the MotW. Creepy, and I love when they pull from actual folklore. 

Edited November 6, 2015 by tennisgurl

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Wasn't here for ole dude putting hands on Abbie.

She should've knocked him smoove the fuck out.

[benteen]

I just wasn’t feeling this one.  Found it a little boring to tell you the truth.

 

Show, Betsy Ross just isn’t working.

 

Joe was a complete idiot tonight.

 

I’m starting to thing Zoe is deranged.

Edited November 6, 2015 by benteen

[Frozendiva]

I was a bit meh on this week's episode.  This week's "Paranormal Witness" had a bee invasion, along with a creature with glowing eyes.

 

I too think that Betsy Ross and Pandora have some connection. We got almost nothing from Betsy previously, so why now. At least we have a bit more insight in to Pandora, but by now, we the audience, should have some idea what is going on. Because she can? She travels through time and was Betsy 200 years ago?

 

I liked Abbie's new hairstyle and am concerned for Jenny. Crane's dating seemed like a disaster until he decided to be 'real'. Chloe still seems like she has some secrets and isn't on the up-and-up with Crane.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Chloe is giving me Stalker teas, plus they have no chemistry.

This would've worked better with the nice Renactment lady they killed off.

[HalcyonDays]

Chloe is giving me Stalker teas, plus they have no chemistry.

This would've worked better with the nice Renactment lady they killed off.

Chloe?? Who's Chloe? Do you mean Zoe? Either way, yeah...meh...

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Chloe?? Who's Chloe? Do you mean Zoe? Either way, yeah...meh...

Oops, I meant Zoe.

Thanks.

[Commando Cody]

This is the first time I've seen Sleepy Hollow trending, so that might be a good sign. Or possibly not. I was glad to see it. It gives me hope. 

 

I was worried for a minute that since the sheriff is dead they would start a defamation of character. Shows like to do that with dead characters and I didn't want them to go there. 

 

it was a little awkward with Pandora disappearing into the tree and then the time jump with Ichabod and Abby back out in the daylight. 

 

I'm getting a "Just stand there and look pretty" vibe with Betsy now. The show is not going to work with Zoe either. With all that's going on in Sleepy Hollow, I'm not even sure why Ichabod is pursuing anyone. At least Abby isn't tangled up with anyone right now. Neither one could be honest with who they would be seeing. Abby couldn't even tell Danny what what really happened to him. Zoe is going to turn out to be some sort of informant or tool for the dark side.  

[BungalowSummer]

Chloe, Zoe, it hardly matters. The character impresses me as just another generic quirky eccentric in the female ingenue subset. I guess I expect more fire in any woman that would attract Ichabod. You're absolutely right: no chemistry.

It's been a constant tension in the series, probably deliberate. The only women we've seen that produce sparks with Ichabod are Abbie and possibly Jenny. Tom Mison is totally sexy, but Ichabod is so restrained by his 18th Century manners that the character sometimes comes off as strangely neutered. I never once could imagine him and Katrina in the sack. What arouses this man, anyway?

[Indi]

I think that this was the best crafted episode plot-wise this season. The show still leaves me cold. I've finally accepted it's never going back to the early S1 glory, but it still can have some good moments. And Abbie, the real reason I can quit.
 
Jenny is going to turn evil, at least momentarily, and I think it's awesome. Finally they raised the stakes a little.
 
I loved seeing Grace again. Of course, Sexy!Smart!Betsy had to ruin the flashback,but at least it was a connection to Grace's journal and not Ichy's past.
 
I also loved Badass Abbie taking down infected Daniel and saving the day. 
 
I had to laugh at Abbie's remark about Ichy's blank face meaning he had enjoyed the date. Yep! That's Tom Mison take on how a man in love looks. I can't wait for the moment he starts calling Zoe "My Love!" with that dead stare, like he did with Katrina.
 
Halfway through the episode I realized it could have been improved to "Mama" levels if Ichy and Betsy hadn't appeared at all.
 
Pandora is the best new character. I'd root for her if it wasn't for Abbie. I need an Abbie & Pandora as best friends or lovers spin-off. Fanfic writers, get on it!
 
The fact that the plot was much tighter this time around, made it easier to see the spark is completely gone and not only between the leads. All the relationships feel like a bland mush, as exciting as watching paint dry. Now the most interesting relationship seems to be Jenny/Joe. It looks like they've finally stopped baiting Ichabbie (YES!) and jumped to bait the Jenny/Joe ship. Unfortunately they don't have that kind of chemistry. They would make a cute couple, so I wouldn't mind it, but I'm not looking forward to it either. So far removed from the spark Irving and Jenny shared!
 

What arouses this man, anyway?

 

Blandness and whatever the writers and Campbell fantasize about.

[Yolapukka]

I enjoyed the episode, I felt it held together well from beginning to end.  I finally got a sense of structure from the Pandora story and it led into a great sense of anticipation over what is to come. The way Reynolds was used in the episode was a good development and they had some interesting moments, plus his memory loss was a useful way of hand-waving his experience of his normal life intersecting with Abbie's ties to the supernatural. There is a reason I've complained about the current disconnect between Abbie's job and her duty as a witness leading to Ichabod tagging along unchallenged to crime scenes swarming with investigators. In season one that sort of thing informed story, while for most of the initial episodes this season it was just kind of... there, flat and inert. For me those little rationales and details add up to convincing world-building, not how many extras you can muster for a scene. Not that I'm complaining that Sleepy Hollow now has a visible population and no longer seems like everyone is at home and in bed while mayhem ensues. Ichabod's presence was well incorporated into the crime scenes this episode, in one, he literally walked into it as it was happening, in the other, he was not there except by phone. As a consequence Abbie interacted with Reynolds so it was a win for me, even if he was in a peevish mood due to that potentially fatal bug sting.

 

I'm scared for Jenny, those nightmare/possession scenes creeped me out. She doesn't seem to have told Joe about the shard being absorbed into her hand, I wonder if there is a reason for that. The scene in the herbalists shop was good.  I was kind of amused by his non-specific vaguely African, vaguely Caribbean accent. I don't know what the heck that was supposed to be, maybe his backstory is that the accent is totally fake but he puts it on because he thinks it makes him sound hot.

 

I didn't mind Betsy this episode, I thought she was well-used for a change and I loved that the show gave themselves an excuse to use Grace. I think in too many of the memories that feature both her and Crane, his role is comparatively passive and rather than give her purpose, it just makes me feel that she doesn't really need to be there, much the same thing could be written without her presence and we'd get to see Captain Crane, not screwball Ichabod. I'm not sure why she is so often dealing with the same phenomena as Abbie and Crane, are they suggesting that she may have been a witness(?) or some other significant target of Pandora or did TPTB just not consider that it would look like it was adding up to something when it meant nothing at all?

The Zoe scenes were again cute, sweet and funny. I don't really care about her or the romance, such as it is, but I'm neither bored nor offended by her time on screen. She's such a little fluffy rabbit and she's probably doomed, poor thing, either that or a figment sent by Pandora.

Edited November 6, 2015 by yuggapukka

[cynic]

Using Crane's deep bows these last two episodes is kinda ruining them for me.

 

This episode was decent enough. I really hate that we still don't know what Pandora's grand plan is though. There's no urgency there.

 

I don't understand how Nikki Reed can manage to still be such a terrible actress when she barely has any lines.

[AgentRXS]

Complaints about the actress aside, I am so over this show shoehorning "Betsy Ross" into almost every single flashback.  It's beyond annoying. And when did Crane have so much time to be hanging around Betsy Ross? Wasn't he busy competing with Abraham over Katrina? 2 season of very little mention of her, and know suddenly she's the biggest badass ever.  Whatever.

 

 I'm only  watching in support of Nicole B. from now on. Big mistake moving the show from NC to Atlanta----the sets look cheaper and it doesn't feel the same.. Ichabod is forever stuck in chemistry-less pairings with insipid women. and the MOTW are laughable instead of even remotely scary or entertaining. Hard to believe this show is the same one that freaked me out with Moloch jumping through the mirror to kill John Cho. Now we get shadow monsters, fly ladys, and the Big Bad of the season literally walking into a tree. Meh meh meh.

 

I hope Nicole finds a better show worthy of her talents----this one is becoming too embarrassing to watch anymore.

Edited November 6, 2015 by AgentRXS

[thuganomics85]

No, don't go, Pandora!  She's been one of the best things about this season, so I hope she isn't absent for long.  Once again, Shannyn Sossamon shined in all of her scenes.  I especially enjoyed her bemused reaction to all of Ichabod's threats and attempt to shoot her.  After last season being all "personal" between Ichy and Henry, I like that their is a much looser feud between Pandora and Ichabod/Abbie.  She doesn't seem to have a personal vendetta, but needs them to full-fill whatever the hell she is planning.

 

Bee monster was fun enough, but I really hope now that Pandora's tree is complete, we'll move past the whole "monster of the week", and start focusing more on what the main goals are for her.

 

Totally knew the beginning was going to be that Ichabod went on a date at some kind of sushi place.  A bit too obvious, or I've just seen it too many times.  Either way, all the date stuff with Zoey wasn't all that entertaining.

 

Cool seeing Grace Dixon again.  Also, probably the best Betsy Ross has been, but that's faint praise, because all it basically meant was that she wasn't cringeworthy bad like normal, and was merely dull.  Still, progress?

 

Joe and Jenny's stuff got more interesting, with Bill Irwin showing up and now Jenny now being infected with that red thing.  Poor Jenny.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

I have a hard time watching  Sesame Street's Mr. Noodle being a bad guy. However, Bill Irwin does a great job. 

 

I really wanted to see inside Pandora's evil tree.....

[Free]

I have a hard time watching  Sesame Street's Mr. Noodle being a bad guy. However, Bill Irwin does a great job.

 

So that's why he looked familiar.

 

I really wanted to see inside Pandora's evil tree.....

 

We might soon enough, it's been building up to something.

[Primetimer]

Death, where be thy sti-- ah, here it is, on Sleepy Hollow, when Pandora unleashes some bees and Crane tries to date.

Read the story

[DeLurker]

We're going to disregard the entire thing with Jenny's shadow benny hookup.   I'm not even going to go there with his accent (really, man?!) and I hate to break the magic, but shadow benny is culantro.  You can get that crap at any caribbean or asian market.  LOL.

Not familiar with the stuff myself, but how many asian or caribbean markets would there be in Sleepy Hollow?  After living in So Cal for 10 years, I am very displeased that I have to drive into Houston proper to go to a decent asian market - grumble, grumble, grumble...

 

I was fearful that when Pandora was calling up the Lady in Red it was going to be Katrina (because her red hair, in all its many hues).  But the swarmy thing put a proper scare in me, so good job on that.

 

I'll give Boobsy Ross credit - I think I detected a slight effort of a time - appropriate accent in her one or two lines.  At least they are using her more sparingly.  But is Boobsy ever dressed in time appropriate garb?

[MissAlmond]

I had more to say but for some reason, it wouldn't post.  Maybe it went up with Pandora's treehouse!

 

Anyway, this episode was ok for me, I've certainly liked past S3 ones better.  Zoe comes off as creepy which IMO, is how it's supposed to be.  I don't waste my time getting upset over this character.

 

Loved how the unflappable Pandora simply walked away!  She doesn’t have time for Ichabod’s rants.   The woman has a tree, box, wigs, shoes and Halloween candy to steal as she quietly unfolds her plan.  Evil with style and panache!

 

 

but Ichabod is so restrained by his 18th Century manners that the character sometimes comes off as strangely neutered.

 

IMO, the show had Betsy "Fast Forward" Ross lay down the breadcrumb for this in Episode 1 (or was it 2 LOL).

 

 

Big mistake moving the show from NC to Atlanta----the sets look cheaper and it doesn't feel the same.

 

Sleepy Hollow, as well as other productions filmed in NC, moved because the state voted down tax incentives for the filming there.  Articles about the issue had interviews with local actors who said they now must state they're willing to relocate to Atlanta for roles that have now dried up in NC.    The same thing would have happened with Baltimore and "House of Cards'; that show was prepared to leave if the incentives had  had been voted down.  It's why the word "business" follows "show". 

Edited November 6, 2015 by MissAlmond

[Julia]

Not familiar with the stuff myself, but how many asian or caribbean markets would there be in Sleepy Hollow?

Within an easy drive? About eleven.

[DeLurker]

Wow!  Maybe I should pack my bags...

[Free]

Big mistake moving the show from NC to Atlanta----the sets look cheaper and it doesn't feel the same.

 

It was done to cut down on the budget, that and there's a tax break, I think.

[mjc570]

I was probably one of SH's biggest fans in season 1.  I loved the smart writing, the lead actors' chemistry, the charm.  I've faithfully watched every episode (in real time!), and my enjoyment has just been decreasing every time.  This season has been the worst - No decent villain, no coherent story line  (although I thought Pandora had possibilities to start), no chemistry between ANYBODY,  My jump the shark moment, though, was Boobsy Ross (love that name!) showing up.  I just couldn't take it anymore, switched channels and "unfollowed" the show.  It's a shame, because I used to really look forward to SH, and some fun history.

[DearEvette]

After watching this ep, my feeling that the show is laying a foundation and building to something feels right.  The tablet, Jenny & Joe, Pandora all seem like pieces of a puzzle and we just aren't getting the big picture yet.  Is this like S1, no.  Different storytelling method.  I prefer S1 but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate what they are doing here.  S3 is a lot smarter than S2 and feels almost like a bread-crumb mystery in places.  When Pandora said 'Bear Witness' before being swallowed by her tree it made me feel like they have given thought to her and are trying to say something more about what it means for Abbie & Ichabod to be Witnesses.  she isn't just so thrown in as a generic arch villainess for them to fight against.  It seems like she has a bigger purpose.

 

I know some people were mad about Ichy's date but i wasn't.  I thought it was funny.  I don't mind Ich & Zoe because frankly she is no threat to Abbie's role as Alpha Female and after the Katrina debacle, that is my biggest concern when it comes to any Ichy romantic interest.

 

By contrast I like what they did with Danny and Abbie.  There is a lot of unspoken stuff happening under the surface so all their scenes seem to be fraught with subtext.  Where Zoe & Ich  feel like they are wandering around a chick lit fantasy, Abbie & Danny are angsting through a dramatic suspense.  And regardless of what they decide to with Danny, there never seems to be an imminent threat against Ichabod's role in things as there has been with Abbie's.  And frankly Abbie it is nice to witness Abbie with a non-platonic personal connection, even fleetingly.

 

It also seems like they are mining canon.  First with Joe and all the Corbin call-backs and now the thing with Jenny.  Even though Corbin exorcized that one demon from Jenny, I think there was the suggestion that Demons were not completely done with you even if they were cast out.  At least that is how Lyndie Greenwood played that in S1, like she was afraid it would come back.  So now we see her possessed again.  This is good stuff for her and I am curious to see how it plays.

 

I enjoyed the episode because it felt more thoughtful, like it had a little meat to it.

 

And on a shallow note, Abbie's hair was on point.  She had Carolyn Mosby hair!

Edited November 6, 2015 by DearEvette

[bethy]

I wondered about each of the types of fear Pandora named as she was picking the flowers. If I had the time - too much TV for it right now - I'd love to go back and identify each fear with the appropriate episode. I keep thinking of that scene with Abbie and Crane at the end of the episode where Crane was stabbed and the look on Abbie's face before they cut to the flower growing. Was it loneliness that episode? I just can't remember.

[Free]

Totally knew the beginning was going to be that Ichabod went on a date at some kind of sushi place.  A bit too obvious, or I've just seen it too many times.  Either way, all the date stuff with Zoey wasn't all that entertaining.

 

It's because we've already seen scenes like that in this series before.

[Enero]

Loved how the unflappable Pandora simply walked away!  She doesn’t have time for Ichabod’s rants.   The woman has a tree, box, wigs, shoes and Halloween candy to steal as she quietly unfolds her plan.  Evil with style and panache!

 

This is hilarious but so true. I do like the fact the witnesses kind of thought they were winning all this time when killing the monsters of the week when in fact they were fueling Pandora's evil end game whatever that may be. 

 

 Big mistake moving the show from NC to Atlanta----the sets look cheaper and it doesn't feel the same.. 

 

I don't think the move to Atlanta has anything to do with what may to some look like cheaper sets. I think the show having reduced viewership and as a result the revenue they could make off advertisers has likely dropped, which has probably led to less money available for filming. That said, I think some of the scenery, specifically the outdoor scenery has been gorgeous most especially in the 3-4 episodes.

 

So I re-watched the scene between Danny and Abbie in the cave, was he saying that he was still hung up on her? 

 

I also listened to  Pandora's comments about the final rose again and I wonder if her comments 'the one who remains hidden whose destiny is to reign over all' is somehow connected to the situation with Jenny. Nevin did say that the shard offered power, which is obviously what he wanted. And then there's Jenny's past from S1, when Moloch seemed to haunt her and there seemed to be a vulnerability within her to evil. It would be interesting if this is where the story is headed. 

Edited November 6, 2015 by Enero

[HalcyonDays]

Using Crane's deep bows these last two episodes is kinda ruining them for me.

 

This episode was decent enough. I really hate that we still don't know what Pandora's grand plan is though. There's no urgency there.

 

I don't understand how Nikki Reed can manage to still be such a terrible actress when she barely has any lines.

 

No, but those deep bows pale in comparison to the original one in season one. They are no where near as sexy as that one (and actually different in form). Maybe season one's was Mison just being a goof and improvised, and these ones are scripted.

 

Because I've seen the promotional photos for the next episode, and read enough about what's going on, I have an idea of what Pandora's plan is. I will say though, that opening that tree was freaky, because I was expecting a crap-load of evil demons and the like to fly out of there or something.

 

I wondered about each of the types of fear Pandora named as she was picking the flowers. If I had the time - too much TV for it right now - I'd love to go back and identify each fear with the appropriate episode. I keep thinking of that scene with Abbie and Crane at the end of the episode where Crane was stabbed and the look on Abbie's face before they cut to the flower growing. Was it loneliness that episode? I just can't remember.

 

Because I am a nerd, I wrote them down (because I was curious).

 

The six are: Secrets. Chaos. Loneliness. Death. Lost Innocence* (thanks bethy!) (? This one was really hard to hear, I couldn't quite understand her it sounded like she said Innocence or Innocence Lost), and Fear.

 

Anyway, good episode actually. I really enjoyed it and time flew. Still loving Pandora as a villian. Blown away by the jealousy that apparently Daniel has for Abbie. He was scared of Abbie - who he obviously thinks is the better agent - one-upping him, taking over, etc. Very interesting. However, it's clear that he loves/loved her, but she's so closed to relationships that it would never go anywhere. He just talking about the shack by the beach and them spending time there together sounded intriguing. Wish we could see flashbacks for that (probably never, since it'd be R-rated - hee). Interesting that Abbie is very vary about long-term commitments, which fits her personality. She's afraid of being alone, but is unwilling to take that leap to NOT be alone. I'm actually glad that Daniel doesn't know the Supernatural stuff going on, that he forgot. Oh, and her takedown of this guy twice her size was beautiful.

 

The "date"  surprisingly didn't bother me. It just makes me feel meh. If Crane wants a dull cutesy girly girl, that that's what he wants? I will say that his interactions with Zoe are a helluva lot more believable than his interactions with Katrina. There is actual chemistry there. It's cute, sweet, saccharine and non-threatening Sweet Valley High type of stuff, but no where near the level of intensity he has with Abbie. I'm not into sugary sweet romances myself, but its cute. And Tolerable. That's the key. Tolerable.

 

Jenny Mills. What can I say about her. I totally have a girl-crush on Jenny, because she was just so awesome and looked so beautiful this episode (well, every episode). I am really enjoying how much more they are giving us of Jenny. Moar please. Joe and Jenny could have their own show and I'd be all over it. But what the heck absorbed into her body?? Now a specific spoiler make total sense. There are three (two?) episodes till the mid-season finale - I see where this is going and I like it.

 

Forgot to add - the "Herb Purveyor?" Yum, and hilarious scene. Like that guy (yum) can he come back? When his eyes switched to creepy full on white, that was creepy. And interesting.

 

NR really isn't a good actress, is she? That flashback was not good. Onira Tares was fine, but NR trying to be "tough" was just terrible. And no woman would be allowed to wear pants without punishment. I'm not being sexist, I'm stating fact. There were laws. In fact, woman in the late 1800's (suffragettes) were thrown into jail for daring to wear "men's clothes". She's just not believable as a tough, saavy spy. A debutant at a ball, maybe, but not an ass-kicking spy. It's funny how this show is so amazing at casting 90% of the roles. Then there is a misstep here and there, which makes you wonder why? Or who??

 

One thing I noticed is that the show has a more gritty, more darkness to it, which I actually like. This episode I felt flowed really smoothly, was connected well. I am really enjoying this season.

[bethy]

I think it was "lost innocence" - thanks for the list!

[HalcyonDays]

I think it was "lost innocence" - thanks for the list!

 

Edited my post to include that - yeah, I think it was. She mumbled something and I was like, Innocence, what? It's Lost Innocence. Thanks!

 

It was done to cut down on the budget, that and there's a tax break, I think.

 

The Governor of North Carolina passed a law repealing the production tax breaks that TV shows got. It was a break of about $2-3 million dollars. Because of this, SH scouted two other locations. Vancouver (BC, Canada) and Atlanta. Obviously they choose Atlanta (actually a small town close to Atlanta), because they offer the incentives and encourage film production. Vancouver is another one that encourages it - hence why The X-Files filmed there for many years, and is filming there now.

[Badsamaritan]

I still love this show so very much. And even though I know my poor shipper heart will most likely be broken, I am still all in on Ichabbie. They're just so damn pretty together, gah!! Almost makes my eyes hurt lol.

Pandora continues to be a bad ass, in all her sartorial splendor. A girl wants to look her best for what's to come? Damn skippy! I liked how she asked Waspy Queen 'do you like my dress?' She can get her evil on but still knows how to look good doing it. My kind of multi tasker.

And then we come to Boobsy Ross...sigh. All I can really say is, thanks for only shoving her into one scene. Still get the feeling there were other scenes filmed, but someone is cutting them. To whomever is making that decision, I say thank you. And please just do away with her altogether. She lifts right out!

And Zoe...dear God amighty, could she be any more insipid? Why does Crane have to date at all, show? Stop it.

My super girl crush on Abbie took on new heights when she took down Danny. And more importantly, kept him down lol. I wonder if Ichabod has any idea how very VERY strong Ms. Mills legs and thighs are. To paraphrase Faith in Buffy's body, she could pop him like warm champagne, yo!

Jenny, NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Edited November 6, 2015 by Badsamaritan

[DearEvette]

My super girl crush on Abbie took on new heights when she took down Danny. And more importantly, kept him down lol. I wonder if Ichabod has any idea how very VERY strong Ms. Mills legs and thighs are. To paraphrase Faith in Buffy's body, she could pop him like warm champagne, yo

 

 

Right!?!?  I forgot to mention this, but it was awesome.  Danny was high on bee-roid rage and Abbie still dropped him on his ass like a Boss!  My heart went pitty-pat.  And she tops it off with telling Pandy to Bring it.  I swear when she said that, Ichabod looked at Abbie with more lust in his eye than he ever did with any of his supposed love interests including his wife.

[Julia]

Vancouver is another one that encourages it - hence why The X-Files filmed there for many years, and is filming there now.

And the Stargate franchise, and Supernatural, and Men in Trees, and Primeval - it just amuses me that space, heartland America, Alaska and the prehistoric past of the world all look exactly like the same parks in Vancouver.

[HalcyonDays]

And the Stargate franchise, and Supernatural, and Men in Trees, and Primeval - it just amuses me that space, heartland America, Alaska and the prehistoric past of the world all look exactly like the same parks in Vancouver.

 

Yeah, Vancouver has a lot of production there - mostly the tax breaks. And now, with the crap value of the Canadian dollar, it's even cheaper for shows to film.

 

Men in Trees was filmed in Squamish, BC. About one hour north of Vancouver. Beautiful small town, so lovely. I drove up there just to see it and recognized certain places that were shown in the show. Loved that show. *sigh at cancellation*

 

However some shows are filmed nearer to me (I live in Toronto). Crimson Peak (the movie) was filmed in Barrie, Ontario, which is about one hour north of here. But I swear to god, I saw a production set up at an old church (200+ year) in my neighbourhood that I think WAS for Crimson Peak. Have to watch the movie to be sure, but think it was....

 

I swear when she said that, Ichabod looked at Abbie with more lust in his eye than he ever did with any of his supposed love interests including his wife.

 

Heh. That's cause his "love interest" are boring and dull. I think though it's a means to an end. You need Crane to have his "rebound" before pursuring any actual meaningful relationship (aka Abbie). Plus, Reynolds said it flat out - she left him. He's still in love with her, but she left. Because she's afraid of relationships. Won't commit completely. So Crane needs a woman who'll challenge him and accept him as is, Abbie needs a guy who she feels worthy enough to make that leap and WANT to have a long term relationship with. Right now, both are not there. Sad though, because we won't see what the eventual result will be.

[vanarnd1]

I thought this episode was a little more balanced than last week, which helped. I liked that we got a small insight into Daniel's feelings toward Abbie and that it got more screen time and focus than past episodes. I wish there had been more movement on the Pandora front after we saw the fight in the cave, I guess they are waiting a little bit and focusing on Jenny/Joe first. As people have said I think the story telling pace is slower, but hopefully that will result in an fulfilling conclusion. I just can't get into anything with Betsy Ross or Ichabod/Zoe though, and it is a shame that they aren't putting that screen time to better use, especially for a show that is trying to maximize interest and draw in viewers. Even if they don't go for Ichabbie, I would rather see them interact more together in any capacity at this point.

[WordsWordsWords]

MissAlmond said:

 

 

Sleepy Hollow, as well as other productions filmed in NC, moved because the state voted down tax incentives for the filming there.  Articles about the issue had interviews with local actors who said they now must state they're willing to relocate to Atlanta for roles that have now dried up in NC.    The same thing would have happened with Baltimore and "House of Cards'; that show was prepared to leave if the incentives had  had been voted down.  It's why the word "business" follows "show". 

 

* * * *

Clearly, I don't know how to quote. I've only recently begun posting to the Previously TV forums.

* * * *

 

MissAlmond has this right. We in NC lost our shows because our legislature is full of short-sighted politicians. *sigh* Wilmington's loss. Atlanta's gain.

 

I seldom snark about actors and their ability to play a role because I know how much influence the director will have over an actor's performance. However, I do think that Betsy Ross would not be a quarter so annoying if she were played by another actor, perhaps someone able to sound as if she were living in the 18th Century. It's her inflections that are all off. And her facial expressions. And the way she moves. *sigh*

 

I did enjoy the bulk of the episode, though.

Edited November 7, 2015 by WordsWordsWords

[cynic]

...

My super girl crush on Abbie took on new heights when she took down Danny. And more importantly, kept him down lol. I wonder if Ichabod has any idea how very VERY strong Ms. Mills legs and thighs are. To paraphrase Faith in Buffy's body, she could pop him like warm champagne, yo!

...

I did love that part. I've always enjoyed that Abbie is a highly competent officer, both mentally and physically.

I actually didn't mind Zoey that much. I didn't like their Benihana date because it seemed sitcommy, but their second date was okay. I disliked her sending big pictures of her face to Crane in the last few episodes, but I can deal with her if this is the road they want to go down. I wish it was at least Caroline though, but I think I'm over hoping for Ichabbie.

[jhlipton]

I didn't mind Betsy this episode, I thought she was well-used for a change and I loved that the show gave themselves an excuse to use Grace.

Ugh.  Grace came to the tent "I made this potion.." and Boobsy was like "Well, aren't you the cutest thing -- I could have made that, but I have to destroy a hive with a single pistol."

 

It would have worked much better if Grace made and delivered the potion, and destroyed the hive, and Titsy wasn't in the scene at all.

[Snookums]

I swear when she said that, Ichabod looked at Abbie with more lust in his eye than he ever did with any of his supposed love interests including his wife.

 

 

When he said "Oh, Leftenant" I really thought he was going to propose! Enough with the carob of Zoe and Danny: bring on the full bodied Godiva of these two! I get that the show doesn't want to "go there" with the romance blah blah blah too soon, but honestly. It'd be one thing if Ichabod was "trying to move past Katrina" by trying to convince himself he feels something for Zoe that isn't there, but TPTB want me to think he's actually into her, while my eyes and ears tell me otherwise. 

 

Whoops, forgot to mention not touching the magic talisman with your bare hands, there, Jen, sorry! Honestly, they better not go "there" with Jenny and Joe either; where Zoe and  Crane have no chemistry, Joe and Jenny do: sibling chemistry. Trying to force the former is insulting to viewer intelligence, while the latter makes me want to actively barf. The whole "oh, we're not together" crap at the herbalists is probably what summoned the white-eye spirit "STOP IT. JUST STOP. HERE IS A VAGUE PROPHECY TO DISTRACT YOU FROM THIS TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE IDEA."

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SBR's folk remedy for warding off insects: tea tree oil, cucumber peels, vanilla, and citronella. Blech!

 

If Crane wants a dull cutesy girly girl, that that's what he wants? I will say that his interactions with Zoe are a helluva lot more believable than his interactions with Katrina. There is actual chemistry there. It's cute, sweet, saccharine and non-threatening Sweet Valley High type of stuff, but no where near the level of intensity he has with Abbie. I'm not into sugary sweet romances myself, but its cute. And Tolerable. That's the key. Tolerable.

After all the drama with Katrina, I'm okay with Crane just wanting to spend time with a normal girl who isn't scheming or keeping secrets about babies or witchcraft. Hopefully they will keep Zoe this way and not turn her into a minion of evil too. For now, I'm fine with it because at least they aren't trying to portray this relationship as a grand sweeping romance. They like each other in a slightly awkward middle school kind of way. I'd rather they keep it like since we know Crane can't have any kind of meaningful relationship with someone who doesn't know the truth about where he came from, his role as a witness, etc. Eventually he will realize that and break things off (if she doesn't get killed off first) so at least keeping it light means he won't be totally heartbroken about it.

Edited November 7, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[CooperTV]

Can Ichabod's romance with Stalker Zoe to go away now? It looks hella awkward, Zoe indeed seems like a creepazoid preying on Ichabod, and everything about it is unconvincing and dull.

 

On the other hand, if they remove Zoe, the Witnesses would have to talk to each other like human beings. Like they talked to each other in the first three episodes of the season. And we can't have that. Abbie and Ichabod only can talk shop, apparently, or discuss Ichabod's love life or Abbie's dull ex-boyfriend-now-boss.

 

Daniel is also dull as dishwater, by the way. The actor in the main credits now, that's why they push his importance so hard. Ooh, he went deranged and thought Ichabod and Abbie are an item, he's so jealous (it was a really clumsy Ichabbie baiting, show)! But I do not care about him or his angst, and I can't imagine why Abbie ever would.

 

I hope Pandora will tell her grand plan to Team Witness. It's obvious to me they really refuse to see the big picture, though.

 

Joe and Jennie were dumbasses.

[Moonsky]

Shannyn Sossaman continues to own the role of Pandora. Since the show got rid of Moloch, I want to know if Pandora is acting on behalf of someone else that is a step above her but that person isn’t the ultimate big bad, if she answers directly to the big bad or if there even is a big bad for this tribulation.  Also, thank you to Shernold Edwards (the writer of this episode) for including that bitch please line for Pandora towards Crane in which she tells him that she’d like to give him a history lesson after he tried to “educate” her like he tries to do with everyone else.

 

It was nice seeing Grace Dixon again & that the show remembered that people from Abbie’s past can also play a role in the flashbacks without Crane being included in them.

 

This episode was written by a black woman of Caribbean descent, so shoutout to her for finding a way to include elements of Trinidadian folklore into an episode because most of the time the writers like to act like the only “twistory” that can be incorporated into Sleepy Hollow must somehow tieback to elements of white colonial America as if only white people lived & made contributions in America during colonial times.  I mean this is the same show that could imagine a Headless Horseman with a machine gun in the Pilot, a son who looked forty years older than both his parents, people time traveling from 2015 back to colonial America, a dudebro version of Betsy Ross, & many other outlandish ideas, so it shouldn’t be hard for them to imagine a colonial America that doesn’t only include folklore dealing with white colonial history even if it means that the audience goes without seeing all of those absolutely riveting Ichabod Crane flashbacks for a few scenes during a season. Ichabod wasn’t involved in that Grace Dixon flashback & somehow the world didn’t end, so there’s no real reason why other present day characters beside Ichabod shouldn’t have a few as well to help add to their storylines because no matter what the show will always spend a majority of them on Crane anyway. 

 

I loved that Lance & Nicole got to interact throughout the episode.  They work well together. It was also nice for a change that the show made time for parts of Abbie’s personal life to be talked about in scenes with someone other than Crane because those type of scenes usually lead to Ichabod making it mostly about himself.  Since these scenes involved Abbie actually interacting with Daniel (& not Ichabod) in scenes about their past relationship (even though they didn’t go as in depth as they could’ve with it), it felt like for the first time in ages there was some focus on Abbie’s romantic life because for the last couple of episodes they wrote Abbie caring more about Cranes’s date with Zoe than she’s cared about her romantic life in more than two seasons, so this episode was a nice change of pace in that regard. If this show ever decides to step out of the shadow of PG romantic storylines (which is basically what happens with every Crane romantic storyline), at least they have two actors in Nicole & Lance that have shown in the past that they’re capable of bring passion/heat in romantic storylines with each other & others (& that doesn’t necessarily mean those scenes need to involve sex scenes).

 

I liked the Joe & Jenny scenes. Still hoping that all this talk about Papa Corbin actually leads to a flashback with Clancy Brown in it.

 

There have been times this season where Tom Mison has played Ichabod so over the top that it’s been cringeworthy. In this epsidoe he managed to give a more even toned performance. Shernold Edwards did a better job of writing him more like an adult instead of some scenes in a couple of other episodes where he came off like a straight up manchild which makes it even more difficult for me to take him seriously as a romantic leading man when the writers have women in past & present day SH trip over themselves because of him without even trying to show why that would even be the case. She also did a good job of writing normal reactions from other characters that interacted with him unlike other writers who love to write characters at times like they should be in awe of him.

 

 

So Ichy took his new boo to Beni Hana, on Abbie's dime.

RME...

 

 

Hasn’t Abbie been footing the bill for all things concerning Ichabod since he woke from his 250 year old nap? With no job of his own or a mention by the writers of a discovered inheritance regarding Ichabod, if Abbie didn’t foot the bill for the date, then the safe bet would’ve been that Zoe paid for it. Abbie could’ve claimed him as a dependent on her tax forms by now, if there were some falsified documents to show that he was officially alive.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Moonsky

[Badsamaritan]

With no job of his own or a mention by the writers of a discovered inheritance regarding Ichabod, if Abbie didn’t foot the bill for the date, then the safe bet would’ve been that Zoe paid for it. Abbie could’ve claimed him as a dependent on her tax forms by now, if there were some falsified documents to show that he was officially alive.

Wasn't Ichabod a 'consultant' with the sheriff's department for a time? If so, he'd be paid for that. We know he traveled to his family home, maybe he sold some stuff for funds. He obviously didn't bring a lot back with him. Abbie doesn't talk about having to support him, unless I'm missing dialog. Hawley provided him with a passport so he has ID to be employed now. Maybe if he gets that place declared an historical site, there's a stipend that comes with it.

Until Abbie starts bitching about him being a deadbeat and needing to earn his keep, I'm gonna assume he's got some scratch from somewhere.

[Yolapukka]

Until Abbie starts bitching about him being a deadbeat and needing to earn his keep, I'm gonna assume he's got some scratch from somewhere.

 

 

Assuming Abbie is fully supporting him with money out of her own pocket is as much fanwank as how he might be earning his own income. We've seen nothing to support either side of things.  Abbie dropping off groceries at Corbin's cabin doesn't count, all that inescapably proves is she went to the grocery store and he didn't.  Also, he was bunking for free (probably) at a place Abbie had access, to , if not ownership of. Either way, it's fun to snark about his lack of paid work or speculate on whatever legitimate employment or odd jobs in the underground economy might be keeping him in pin money. I tend to think she was paying most or all of the bills in the first two seasons but after the red-headed millstone finally provided great joy by diebitchdying, part of his walkabout involved paid work. After all, he was no longer needed to linger at her side lest she need a comfy throw pulled over her slumbering form.

 

Anyway, it doesn't look like Ichabod is a lavish spender on dates.

Edited November 7, 2015 by yuggapukka