S06.E11: Chaos in the Cul-de-Sac

[Twopper]

 

You know it really doesn't make any sense that they would give Meri a gift for divorcing Kody. According to them, the legal wife isn't any different than the other wives. So Meri didn't give up anything since they are all the same. If legal marriage is irrelevant then why would it matter if she's the legal wife or one of the spiritual wives?

  Well, I would think it would matter to them all even though they might deny it, because it does matter to the "real world." I am sure it gave Meri a sense of security, being the legal wife, although as we have come to see, it was a false sense of security. And the non-legal wives know that they don't have that piece of paper. I guess that's why all the "sealing" is important.  I think they have tried to convince themselves that legal marriage is irrelevant, but at the back of their mind and in their hearts, they know that isn't really true.I think the stress of holding those two opposing values is part of the reason they seem so unhappy and often unhinged.

 

If they really all believed it (I think some believe it more than others--I think Christine is the truest believer, but Meri, Janelle and Robyn have all been legal wives so I think it is harder for them) then none of them would be legal wives.  But don't expect what they do to be logical and make sense.

 

I think Meri was probably offended (1)at the gift of the necklace which was probably cheaper than the watch (or at least cheaper than the price they pretended the watch cost), and (2) at the meaning of the three diamonds not only representing the three children, but also "past,present, and future" when she is obviously the "past" and Robyn is "present and future."  I would have been sorely tempted to hurl it at Kody, but she really couldn't do that with the children near by.  If I were Meri, I would never ever wear it.

[3girlsforus]

The only "fillings" that Kody and the wives understand are sexual, jealousy, frustration, satisfaction and hyper-happiness. They don't have the ability to understand any of the 'fillings" that the children are going through associated with any of the events they are putting them through (The Fleeing of Utah, The Purity Speech, The Denouncement of David Preston Jessop, The Divorce, The Adoption, etc.). They will never get it when it comes to their kids.

 

I don't think it occurs to them there is anything to get. The emotional needs of the kids don't even seem to be on their radar. 

[ghoulina]

In my opinion, I I think it's true he hasn't seen the kids in a few years, but I don't think it's because he is evil like Robyn would like us to think. I'm guessing that since the most likely time for him to have the kids, and it seems as though that would interfere with filming, Robyn put the kabosh on that. Funny enough though that she does finally let them go, and they STILL have more airtime than the other children:

 

I almost wonder if she wasn't withholding the children from him until she got something she wanted. It seems rather convenient that as soon as the "adoption" is final, the kids are suddenly going back for a visit.

[algebra]

Of course Meri was offended to be given a three-stone Diamond piece by the children!!! 3-stone diamond jewelry is a gift from husband to wife.it is not appropriate to any other relationship. If Kody had given it to her after the divorce she might have liked it.

The kids might as well have bought her an engagement ring. Sure, might be a pretty bauble, to remind you that your husband didn't think enough of you to give you one himself.

Just because dip-shit blamed his brother's ignorance on homeschooling does not mean anybody else here thinks homeschoolers are uneducated.

What is interesting now that the show is in its 6th season, that what the monogamous world has believed for years, that polygamy results in abuse, of women and children, the Brown family has put on display for everyone to see, when they set out to show the opposite.

.

[laurakaye]

I don't think it occurs to them there is anything to get. The emotional needs of the kids don't even seem to be on their radar. 

Isn't this somewhat typical in polygamist families?  There are usually lots of children from several wives.  The wives themselves can be sealed and unsealed (yuck) to other celestial husbands.  In some sects, the girls are married off very young and the boys are sent away for a couple of years.  I know the treatment of the Brown children is not that extreme, but it's pretty clear that the Kody Krew revolves solely around Kody, and everyone else's feelings tend to take a big back seat to whatever he wants to do.

 

I am reminded of their "flight" to Las Vegas, and I seem to remember during one couch session, Christine saying something to the effect that Kody always wanted to move to Las Vegas.  So in my mind, the whole "we gotta go NOW!!" was complete BS, spun by Kody as persecution, but in reality it was what he wanted all along.  He can and has pulled a lot of suspect crap in the name of polygamy.

[laurakaye]

Of course Meri was offended to be given a three-stone Diamond piece by the children!!! 3-stone diamond jewelry is a gift from husband to wife.it is not appropriate to any other relationship. If Kody had given it to her after the divorce she might have liked it.

The kids might as well have bought her an engagement ring. Sure, might be a pretty bauble, to remind you that your husband didn't think enough of you to give you one himself.

.

I hadn't thought of it that way.  It really does up the entire "ICK" factor much higher than I originally thought.  Between the horrifying pencil portrait and Robyn's kids giving Meri something pretty to wear around her neck as a daily reminder that she is no longer useful...I mean, you cannot write stuff this awful and demoralizing.  And yet - there it is, bursting into our living rooms every Sunday night.  Just - wow.

[Jusagirlintheworld]

I don't think it occurs to them there is anything to get. The emotional needs of the kids don't even seem to be on their radar.

Agreed. They are too busy seeking attention from Kody and dealing with their own (naturally resulting) jealousy and neediness to have anything left over for the kids.

Remember the scene with the Collier's chickens? The hens left their chicks to follow the rooster. These ladies make Kody the priority and the kids look out for themselves.

This is Mr. Jusagirlintheworld's chief complaint about this show. As a man who makes kids a top priority, he is dumbstruck at the adults' egocentrism to the detriment of the (numerous) children.

[3girlsforus]

What is interesting now that the show is in its 6th season, that what the monogamous world has believed for years, that polygamy results in abuse, of women and children, the Brown family has put on display for everyone to see, when they set out to show the opposite.

.

 

 

Isn't this somewhat typical in polygamist families?  There are usually lots of children from several wives.  The wives themselves can be sealed and unsealed (yuck) to other celestial husbands.  In some sects, the girls are married off very young and the boys are sent away for a couple of years.  I know the treatment of the Brown children is not that extreme, but it's pretty clear that the Kody Krew revolves solely around Kody, and everyone else's feelings tend to take a big back seat to whatever he wants to do.

 

 

I think these comments really shine a light on a core issue here. We were supposed to watch this show and think polygamy is really fine. The FLDS is a deviant group who gets involved with child brides and sexual abuse but they aren't the norm and when it's done with consenting adults it is just as acceptable as monogamous marriage. The problem with that premise is that it isn't ok even without the child brides/sexual abuse. Sure the Brown children's treatment isn't not that extreme but as laurakaye points out here, those children are still taking a back seat to Kody's whims and desires. The children's needs and feelings are irrelevant in the constant battle between the wives for the husband's attention and the constant need to feed the father's ego. I think most men in polygamist marriages have that kind of giant ego combined with the need for it to be continually stroked. Secure men who value their wives wouldn't find the need or the desire to marry multiple women and then sit back while they battle over him. The emotional stress it caused the women would bother a psychologically sound man. 

[mbutterfly]

I'm not certain it is worse (nor maybe as bad) as men who have serial marriages. Then, children truly are often history (not even repainted into anybody's picture). That said, I think both are bad for children. 

Edited November 4, 2015 by mbutterfly

[3girlsforus]

I'm not certain it is worse (nor maybe as bad) as men who have serial marriages. Then, children truly are often history (not even repainted into anybody's picture). That said, I think both are bad for children. 

 

I can see that but to me there is a difference. I know many people with multiple marriages whose children are still the main focus of their lives. There is pain for children in divorce but it is absolutely possible for children to still be the priority even with marriages and remarriages. It's horrible when it doesn't happen, but it's possible and actually common for the children of remarriage to be well-loved. With polygamy, the very setup makes it almost impossible for the children to get their needs met. I just don't see any scenario where polygamy doesn't devolve into the husband-centric disaster we see with the Browns. 

[algebra]

it is the husband's narcissism, need to be the center of attention, that is driving the dysfunction.

Most serial polygamists don't go there.

The whole point of this Polygamy thing is "I'm so awesome I have to share myself with multiple wives and produce little clones of myself!"

Add to that a religious belief that the husband is not only the Head of Household, he is also the High Priest AND the only way into Heaven, usurping the role of Jesus Christ ("I'm more important than Jesus Christ!") and you've got the sickest thing going.

[Tabbygirl521]

It would be nice if the adults could comprehend that "Preston" may be Robin's ex, but he is not the kids' ex - no matter how hard they pretend.

[Granny58]

I almost wonder if she wasn't withholding the children from him until she got something she wanted. It seems rather convenient that as soon as the "adoption" is final, the kids are suddenly going back for a visit.

I try not to WTF too often....but that was certainly a WTF moment!

[mbutterfly]

I can see that but to me there is a difference. I know many people with multiple marriages whose children are still the main focus of their lives. There is pain for children in divorce but it is absolutely possible for children to still be the priority even with marriages and remarriages. It's horrible when it doesn't happen, but it's possible and actually common for the children of remarriage to be well-loved. With polygamy, the very setup makes it almost impossible for the children to get their needs met. I just don't see any scenario where polygamy doesn't devolve into the husband-centric disaster we see with the Browns. 

Oh, I agree about step children being loved often by both sets of parents. I really meant those (usually, not always) men who have three or more marriages/domestic relationships -- same number as Kody, just not all at once. 

[xldb2004]

I would guess before the family went public they were used to lying about their family situation. My guess is that all the kids have been taught to lie since birth about the family. Since they have gone public it seems to me that the kids now are lying to put the best face on the situation in order to keep their perks, thus the over the top reactions. Of all the kids Janelle's seem the most honest. Her kids were very vocal about having too many kids, Maddie specifically excluded Meri and Robin from her big announcement.

[algebra]

Serial polygamists stop banging their ex's (usually) after divorce. The adults go their separate ways and when the children visit they don't (usually) take the custodial parent with them.

So when they visit, the attention is on them, the kids. Activities involve them, such as camping, going to the beach, movies, museums. Those of us who have been in these situations know how it works: "we'll go to (fill in the blank) when the other kids are here, then we can all go together."

This polygamy thing has all these women so eager to stroke their husband's ego the children get in the way.

Just imagine if the first 3 wives moved away, and sent all their kids to Kody and Robyn's house in the summer, for the same 2 weeks. The scene would be completely different. It would also be Karma.

Edited November 4, 2015 by algebra

[DakotaJustice]

I would guess before the family went public they were used to lying about their family situation. My guess is that all the kids have been taught to lie since birth about the family. Since they have gone public it seems to me that the kids now are lying to put the best face on the situation in order to keep their perks, thus the over the top reactions. Of all the kids Janelle's seem the most honest. Her kids were very vocal about having too many kids, Maddie specifically excluded Meri and Robin from her big announcement.

 

Based on what I saw in the first ep, none of the Browns - adults OR kids - were keeping the polygamy a secret.  Remember they had already been interviewed by the BBC a few years before TLC took them on.  Christine was an outspoken activist for plyg rights if memory serves.  And importantly, Lehi has a good-sized polygamist community.

 

As far as their "reason" to "go public/on TLC" being to show how great the polygamist lifestyle is and how they're not like Warren Jeffs et al - I call BS on that.  From the get go, it's been about the easy money and (for Kody) being "a celebrity".  The "showing the world how normal we are" was never a priority, and it's not one now.  The priority for the Kody Brown bunch is to extend the life of the show as long as possible, and I think the Browns/TLC/F8F have determined that their best audience is the snarky audience.  That's why we've been seeing such outrageous bullshit for at least the last 3 seasons.  They don't care how it makes them look, as long as the ratings stay high enough to get another season and keep that easy money coming in.

[3girlsforus]

Just imagine if the first 3 wives moved away, and sent all their kids to Kody and Robyn's house in the summer, for the same 2 weeks. The scene would be completely different. It would also be Karma.

 

Pay attention TLC..... get them to do this. It would be ratings gold. I would watch every single second of it.

[laurakaye]

I go back and forth on the issue of how the Browns view themselves and their viewers.  Some of the things we've seen lately are almost too bizarre to be true.  But I get a very strong sense of high-and-mighty from all of the Brown adults - as in, if you, the viewer, don't understand some of the things we do, it's because you aren't persecuted 24/7 like we are!  You don't know what it's like!  So you will never understand what we go through every day!  We believe in living this lifestyle!

 

I just can't get behind the theory that these people trot out ridiculous and jaw-dropping storylines just to keep the money rolling in.  I think they believe everything they do is somehow going to cause the viewers to say, "Oh, NOW I get it!  Polygamy rocks!"  And I'm sure they do have a smattering of viewers who buy everything the Browns try to sell (and probably a few that want to be Wifey #5).  I'd imagine that the snark-viewers greatly outnumber the other viewers by this point, however.

[SometimesBites]

  Well, I would think it would matter to them all even though they might deny it, because it does matter to the "real world." I am sure it gave Meri a sense of security, being the legal wife, although as we have come to see, it was a false sense of security. And the non-legal wives know that they don't have that piece of paper. I guess that's why all the "sealing" is important.  I think they have tried to convince themselves that legal marriage is irrelevant, but at the back of their mind and in their hearts, they know that isn't really true.I think the stress of holding those two opposing values is part of the reason they seem so unhappy and often unhinged.

 

If they really all believed it (I think some believe it more than others--I think Christine is the truest believer, but Meri, Janelle and Robyn have all been legal wives so I think it is harder for them) then none of them would be legal wives.  But don't expect what they do to be logical and make sense.

 

I think Meri was probably offended (1)at the gift of the necklace which was probably cheaper than the watch (or at least cheaper than the price they pretended the watch cost), and (2) at the meaning of the three diamonds not only representing the three children, but also "past,present, and future" when she is obviously the "past" and Robyn is "present and future."  I would have been sorely tempted to hurl it at Kody, but she really couldn't do that with the children near by.  If I were Meri, I would never ever wear it.

Regarding the ritual sealing: First, I totally agree that the "extra-legal" wives must adopt the mindset that their spiritual ceremony supersedes the legal one in order to retain the least shred of personal dignity and self-respect; it's all they have to cling to on nights when their man is sharing dinner, family time, and a bed with some other woman. Second, all this falderal over sealing and cementing David and Robyn Jessop's children to Kody is just the true weirdness of their background and beliefs seeping out for public view. For THEM, this sort of thing is absolutely nothing unusual. The so-called reassignment of women and children from one man to another--as if they are so many head of cattle--is a commonplace life practice in fundamental plyg communities, so foundational that it's practically in their DNA. Therefore, the Browns can't truly appreciate how DESPICABLE it seems to the general public. They kinda get that they need to spin it, but I have a hunch that they regularly need producer input on how necessary the spin really is if they don't want to completely alienate viewers. Trouble is, very few people buy what they're selling! Most of us see the weirdness, recognize how destructive their choices are.

Edited November 4, 2015 by SometimesBites

[SometimesBites]

I hadn't thought of it that way.  It really does up the entire "ICK" factor much higher than I originally thought.  Between the horrifying pencil portrait and Robyn's kids giving Meri something pretty to wear around her neck as a daily reminder that she is no longer useful...I mean, you cannot write stuff this awful and demoralizing.  And yet - there it is, bursting into our living rooms every Sunday night.  Just - wow.

How true. As if a mere piece of jewelry can possibly counterbalance the wiping out of a 25 year marriage. I guess it's....nice??....that they wanted to commemorate her part in this, but man--what a slap in the face.

[kimaken]

 

Maddie specifically excluded Meri and Robin from her big announcement.

 

But, in an earlier episdode, Maddie came to Meri and Robyn first to tell them about the LDS turning her down for baptism. Maybe she did tell her mom and others beforehand, but we don't know--we only saw this scene on the tv show. Obviously, Maddie will tell her mom first, and I think because Christine was the primary child care when the kids were little back in Utah--and thus a 2nd mother figure--it was fitting that she would want to tell her before the others. I don't interpret this as Maddie likes Christine but dislikes Meri and Robyn.

[Zahdii]

I don't think it occurs to them there is anything to get. The emotional needs of the kids don't even seem to be on their radar. 

 

I'm not so sure of that, at least with Meri, Janelle, and Christine. 

 

Meri is heavily invested in Mariah, although it's not always in a healthy way, but I don't think Meri realizes that. 

 

Janelle is interesting, because she switches up traditional gender roles to get the job done.  She married Kody, started having children with him, and when things got too tough with Meri she took the kids and left.  She got a job, and with the help of her father bought her own home, but still kept up a relationship with Kody.  Eventually she sold her home and moved back in with Kody and Meri.  If I recall correctly, the reason they were able to build the big plyg home we first saw them in was because Janelle used the profits from the sale of her first home to finance the building the big home.  Then Janelle kept working while Christine took care of the kids during the day.  Kody and Meri were working sporadically, quitting jobs or getting fired so they could go on their little vacations.  When you step back, Janelle was taking on the provider role, Christine was taking on the nurturing (motherly) role, and Kody was Janelle's sperm donor, friend with benefits, and her conduit to the poly world.  Meri was just the annoying friend of Kody by that time.  Someone to put up with when Janelle had to, and to ignore the rest of the time.

 

Christine was the wife who really jumped into the situation with both feet.  She had her role all planned out.  She was going to be the happy go lucky fun one to hang out with when Kody wanted that, and the rest of the time she was going to be the buffer between Meri and Janelle, while doing the 50's housewife and loving caretaker to the kids.

 

Kody was just this guy wandering around playing husband when he wanted to, playing daddy when he wanted to, working when he wanted to, and mostly prancing around getting his ego stroked by having three wives and a bunch of kids.  The guy who everyone in high school thought was gay was proving that he was not only NOT gay, he was getting more play than anyone else.  Just count the wives and kids, you'll see!

 

Well....crap.  I just went over my post, and it really doesn't scream that the adults are really paying attention to the emotional needs of the kids.  I can only say now that the way that the older kids are turning out suggests that they got enough care and attention paid to their emotional needs in the past that they're able to carry on nicely.  They've had enough caring to let them be caring towards each other.  The older kids are often picking up and tending to the younger kids in a nurturing way.  They had to have learned that somewhere.

 

As for Robyn, she's the one who seems to be the least motherly to her kids.  I get the feeling they're pieces on Robyn's chessboard of life.

[BlackWidow]

 

I think Meri was probably offended (1)at the gift of the necklace which was probably cheaper than the watch (or at least cheaper than the price they pretended the watch cost), and (2) at the meaning of the three diamonds not only representing the three children, but also "past,present, and future" when she is obviously the "past" and Robyn is "present and future."  I would have been sorely tempted to hurl it at Kody, but she really couldn't do that with the children near by.  If I were Meri, I would never ever wear it.

 

  I've never heard of this 'past, present, future' ring thing, is it a pop culture thing or does it have its roots in some tradition?  I wouldn't think Meri would care that it wasn't as expensive as the watch, but more that it seemed like a 'consolation prize'  rather than something personal, like that the kids made. Meri has plenty of other reasons to be bummed out that have nothing to do with the necklace or whatever kody got, I doubt she gives a hoot about that. The whole recent story that came out with the catfish thing does have me doubting about the divorce though, either as a secret/extra reason (for Meri) for it, or as a result of it.

 

Necklace and watches aside, what was telling was when they showed the quick scene of the kids getting back from visiting their bio-dad, and showed Dayton/David ? running to Meri and the girls running to Christine. I mean there's the obvious fact that for a kid with autism, Meri's house would where you might get some peace and quiet, time alone and one-on-one rather than crazed toddlers running around or teenage girls, whereas it appears that Aurora and I think Gwen? are BFFs - as far as who is running to whose micro-unit.

 

 

it is the husband's narcissism, need to be the center of attention, that is driving the dysfunction.

 

 

Agree w/the narcissism  thing (how many scenes is he in where it looks like he can't think past himself, from the mexico trip to the 'but how can I still do what I need to do and make you happy?' to Christine, to many other scenes where you ca almost see the filter working 'how does this affect ME?) . While a certain element of narcissism is part of the human development process, usually kids leave that behind at some stage, when they see how other people hurt too. Some however, while they aren't serial killers or genocidal maniacs, they never really get that far past that baby-stage of  'the world belongs to me'.

 

I doubt he is a textbook socio though, all of this is way too much hassle and work with it taking way too long for the purposes of a socio who are more into the short-run gratification, at least before TV money came along. Not to sound like Clarice Starling but kody's 'evil' seems more incidental. He doesn't really seem like he has to do all that much to get whatever he wants out of this group. The catfish however, I wouldn't be as hesitant to stick that tag on her. I don't think the kodster was always like he is now, not to this degree. I wouldn't even put it all on robin, but more on the fame aspect, even more than the money.

Based on what I saw in the first ep, none of the Browns - adults OR kids - were keeping the polygamy a secret.  Remember they had already been interviewed by the BBC a few years before TLC took them on.  Christine was an outspoken activist for plyg rights if memory serves.  And importantly, Lehi has a good-sized polygamist community.

 

As far as their "reason" to "go public/on TLC" being to show how great the polygamist lifestyle is and how they're not like Warren Jeffs et al - I call BS on that.  From the get go, it's been about the easy money and (for Kody) being "a celebrity".  The "showing the world how normal we are" was never a priority, and it's not one now.  The priority for the Kody Brown bunch is to extend the life of the show as long as possible, and I think the Browns/TLC/F8F have determined that their best audience is the snarky audience.  That's why we've been seeing such outrageous bullshit for at least the last 3 seasons.  They don't care how it makes them look, as long as the ratings stay high enough to get another season and keep that easy money coming in.

 

 Yes, yes and more yes. It's kind of sad we don't even know which parts are total tv BS , and which  are them just covering their asses, but we know 99.9% is some kind of BS, because the Dorian Gray mask of happy plygdom is starting to show its age no matter how many happy horsesh*t parties they throw.

 

I go back and forth on the issue of how the Browns view themselves and their viewers.  Some of the things we've seen lately are almost too bizarre to be true.  But I get a very strong sense of high-and-mighty from all of the Brown adults - as in, if you, the viewer, don't understand some of the things we do, it's because you aren't persecuted 24/7 like we are!  You don't know what it's like!  So you will never understand what we go through every day!  We believe in living this lifestyle! I just can't get behind the theory that these people trot out ridiculous and jaw-dropping storylines just to keep the money rolling in. 

 

You can't get behind the theory they would throw out "ridiculous and jaw-dropping" stories just to keep the money rolling in?  I sure can- although they are't really that jaw-dropping, more like desperate.

 

The high and mighty 'you wouldn't understand' is sure a handy thing to throw around, as it is an accusation that can't be proven, you can just throw it out there and put the other person on the defensive, just because they don't agree, it 'shames' them , and makes them inherently wrong, as if they aren't being 'tolerant ' or PC in some way, regardless of how valid the person's position is.

[pamme64]

Isn't this somewhat typical in polygamist families?  There are usually lots of children from several wives.  The wives themselves can be sealed and unsealed (yuck) to other celestial husbands.  In some sects, the girls are married off very young and the boys are sent away for a couple of years.  I know the treatment of the Brown children is not that extreme, but it's pretty clear that the Kody Krew revolves solely around Kody, and everyone else's feelings tend to take a big back seat to whatever he wants to do.

 

 

Reminds me of a pack of predators removing the younger males before it's breeding time.  And not in a 'it's the way of things' natural progression type of way. 

[CofCinci]

Meri was probably busy with giving a blowie to a banana while her phone recorded it and couldn't participate in the Maddie scene.

[leighroda]

I'm not so sure of that, at least with Meri, Janelle, and Christine.

Meri is heavily invested in Mariah, although it's not always in a healthy way, but I don't think Meri realizes that.

Janelle is interesting, because she switches up traditional gender roles to get the job done. She married Kody, started having children with him, and when things got too tough with Meri she took the kids and left. She got a job, and with the help of her father bought her own home, but still kept up a relationship with Kody. Eventually she sold her home and moved back in with Kody and Meri. If I recall correctly, the reason they were able to build the big plyg home we first saw them in was because Janelle used the profits from the sale of her first home to finance the building the big home. Then Janelle kept working while Christine took care of the kids during the day. Kody and Meri were working sporadically, quitting jobs or getting fired so they could go on their little vacations. When you step back, Janelle was taking on the provider role, Christine was taking on the nurturing (motherly) role, and Kody was Janelle's sperm donor, friend with benefits, and her conduit to the poly world. Meri was just the annoying friend of Kody by that time. Someone to put up with when Janelle had to, and to ignore the rest of the time.

Christine was the wife who really jumped into the situation with both feet. She had her role all planned out. She was going to be the happy go lucky fun one to hang out with when Kody wanted that, and the rest of the time she was going to be the buffer between Meri and Janelle, while doing the 50's housewife and loving caretaker to the kids.

Kody was just this guy wandering around playing husband when he wanted to, playing daddy when he wanted to, working when he wanted to, and mostly prancing around getting his ego stroked by having three wives and a bunch of kids. The guy who everyone in high school thought was gay was proving that he was not only NOT gay, he was getting more play than anyone else. Just count the wives and kids, you'll see!

Well....crap. I just went over my post, and it really doesn't scream that the adults are really paying attention to the emotional needs of the kids. I can only say now that the way that the older kids are turning out suggests that they got enough care and attention paid to their emotional needs in the past that they're able to carry on nicely. They've had enough caring to let them be caring towards each other. The older kids are often picking up and tending to the younger kids in a nurturing way. They had to have learned that somewhere.

As for Robyn, she's the one who seems to be the least motherly to her kids. I get the feeling they're pieces on Robyn's chessboard of life.

I'm not sure where it fits in with everything but I also think at some point janelle received a substantial inheritance that I believe was put toward the Lehigh house. I'm not positive though.

[algebra]

I've never heard of this 'past, present, future' ring thing, is it a pop culture thing or does it have its roots in some tradition? I wouldn't think Meri would care that it wasn't as expensive as the watch, but more that it seemed like a 'consolation prize' rather than something personal, like that the kids made. Meri has plenty of other reasons to be bummed out that have nothing to do with the necklace or whatever kody got, I doubt she gives a hoot about that.

https://vimeo.com/30114608

Look at this ad from DeBeer Consolidated Mines and THEN say nobody would be insulted by a gift of a three-stone Diamond Past Present &Future jewelry piece from the step children of your exhusband.

Robyn must have gone to Gold & Silver Pawn and specifically requested the most hurtful, insulting piece of shit to rub Meri's nose in.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4vXHm8TzLzE

Here's another one.

Edited November 4, 2015 by algebra

[truelovekiss]

Just speculating now, but after this display, I'm genuinely curious about what the three kids' relationships with their father, mother and KoDouche will be like once they are grown up, and out from under Sobyn and KoDouche's thumbs.  It could take awhile, they have been through some pretty hardcore brain washing, but I do think that they will come to see that their mom tried to alienate them from their father, in favor of KoDad.  I think Dayton will always want to have a good relationship with his father, as well as his mother and stepfather, and will avoid stepping on any toes.  But I'm very curious about how the girls will feel about this later in life, perhaps after they're married with children of their own.

[BlackWidow]

https://vimeo.com/30114608

Look at this ad from DeBeer Consolidated Mines and THEN say nobody would be insulted by a gift of a three-stone Diamond Past Present &Future jewelry piece from the step children of your exhusband.

Robyn must have gone to Gold & Silver Pawn and specifically requested the most hurtful, insulting piece of shit to rub Meri's nose in.

 

   I don't really see the ring itself as insulting as much as the fact it is from the kids (and not like kody thought of it or it is primarily from him) or the timing it with the adoption -the fact that it is from the kids - it's like estranged spouses who have the kids give the spouse a birthday gift but they don't have the class to sign the card themselves. Like "I'm still mad but I'll do the obligatory gift'.

One gets the feeling someone with the ego of kody might be punishing her or exiling her, rather than looking at what caused the whole recent mess or acknowledging his own part in it. 

 

The past, present, future idea likely has its own corollary in plyg-land as far as meaning, but De Beers is not going to have the cast of big love in the movie theater and watching themselves while they all met and then in the afterlife etc.- and therein lies the rub- the whole application of the plyg ring scenario of what that means would come from the man if things were 'plyg-normal', not the kids. As if it were originally meant to be from kody and/or robin but since catfish, now it is from the kids. Ugh

 

Coming from the kids, it feels more like 'well, you'll always be welcome on the kid planet, but you won't be on our level where unicorns sing and rainbows have flavors...' again, it looks sorta like something robin came up with as an afterthought, and once more, doing it wrong and having no social skills as to how it would be received. In their own heads, R and K, oh we think this is a good 'i-duh' so it must be one = circular thinking.

 

It's really hard not to think of K/R as just part of the great passel of children because of how clueless and self-centered they are, even when they think they aren't being that way or perhaps especially when they think they aren't. If kody doesn't know Meri well enough to know what would be hurtful to her by now, he's not too bright- or if he does know that would be taken as a consolation, well, ok, the kids love you but I kinda don't now- that is just super effed-up.

Edited November 5, 2015 by BlackWidow

[LucyEth]

Wow!  Calling that picture or pitcher as Kody pronounced it (maybe he was home schooled) creepy and disturbing is an understatement.  The blessing?  What was that supposed to be, now Kody is a church leader.   Sorry Aurora just annoys me, always crying, get over it already.  If I had to hear Dayton, Aurora and Brianna said by Kody one more time, I thought I would scream.  Sorry all of this was way over the top and just plain weird.

[CofCinci]

I'm not sure where it fits in with everything but I also think at some point janelle received a substantial inheritance that I believe was put toward the Lehigh house. I'm not positive though.

It was in the book. Basically, Janelle was off doing the single mom thing for 2 years with limited contact from Kody. Then she gets the inheritance and all of a sudden he wants a relationship with her. He proposes the idea of the multiple unit dwelling as the key to their marriage problems. If Janelle's bank account didn't receive a hefty deposit, they would have been unsealed a long time. She'd be on some other dude's planet. Edited November 5, 2015 by CofCinci

[RazzleberryPie]

Do they never think that their kids are going to grow up and have their own spouses and own planets? Is inter-galactic travel ok, so they can visit each other? Does every couple get a planet, or only a handful? Seems to me like they're already off in their own worlds right now.

[JoannKB]

I don't really see the ring itself as insulting as much as the fact it is from the kids (and not like kody thought of it or it is primarily from him) or the timing it with the adoption -the fact that it is from the kids - it's like estranged spouses who have the kids give the spouse a birthday gift but they don't have the class to sign the card themselves.

 

It also comes off like a consolation prize since Meri was the only one who got a gift. Because she's singled out, it is obviously supposed to compensate for her "sacrifice" with diamonds, like a husband to gives his wife jewelry to apologize for cheating on her. Because if all of the moms had gotten a gift from the three kids it would have felt more like a "thank you for letting us be a part of your family" gift.

[RazzleberryPie]

To me that joory was saying "hey, Meri, we're rubbing it in your face that you're a Sucka who has been forced into dethroning yourself. To rub more salt into the wound, the gift is from the three new stepkids your husband gets; remember that you struggled with fertility and couldn't give him more kids? New wife has given him FIVE. Think of that everytime you look at these diamonds."

[suomi]

Kody reminds me so much of my ex and they both bug the shit out of me because their behavior is identical. They're all about "what's in it for me?" and "how can I get away with this?" So, imagine my pleasure when I was reading a book about manipulative men and came across psychologist Lawrence Kohlberg's Six Stages of Moral Development. There are three levels among the six stages and the stages must be achieved in the correct order if they are to be lasting/beneficial.

 

Level 1 : Stage 1 - How can I avoid punishment?

 

Level 1 : Stage 2 - What's in it for me?

 

When moral growth stops here  - - - > Kody (and my ex)

 

Level 2 : Stage 3 - Be a good girl/good boy (gain approval)

 

Level 2 : Stage 4 - Follow the rules/obey the laws/fulfill obligations 

 

Level 3 : Stage 5 - Understand/value social contracts

 

Level 3 : Stage 6 - Possess/heed a conscience; do right solely because it IS right

 

http://www.csudh.edu/dearhabermas/kohlberg01bk.htm

(extremely abbreviated version of Kohlberg's work)

 

 

[B3cky50]

I only read 5 pages of posts so far, but haven't seen this mentioned.

Did anyone find the scene with Meri on the computer to be kind of foreshadowing? It just seemed odd the way they were filming her scrolling away on the computer, not saying much, then a close-up shot of her hand on the mouse, then she receives a text on her cellphone next to the computer, which she immediately scoops up, reads, and then quickly turns off her phone.

It was just strange to me ... like a nod to the audience who knows about the Catfish. Were we supposed to think she was communicating with him?

Or am I just looking too closely?

[BlackWidow]

oh just a little bonus thing that goes with the mention of the brother and pronunciation and such. I must have clicked on one of those side ads- you know the ones you get when you know the web cookies are spying on where you post- and saw this. No, it's not photoshopped. Maybe it is still there. LOL

Edited November 5, 2015 by BlackWidow

[algebra]

I only read 5 pages of posts so far, but haven't seen this mentioned.

Did anyone find the scene with Meri on the computer to be kind of foreshadowing? It just seemed odd the way they were filming her scrolling away on the computer, not saying much, then a close-up shot of her hand on the mouse, then she receives a text on her cellphone next to the computer, which she immediately scoops up, reads, and then quickly turns off her phone.

It was just strange to me ... like a nod to the audience who knows about the Catfish. Were we supposed to think she was communicating with him?

Or am I just looking too closely?

I think that's what we are supposed to get, she's texting Jackie.

Wow! Calling that picture or pitcher as Kody pronounced it (maybe he was home schooled) creepy and disturbing is an understatement. The blessing? What was that supposed to be, now Kody is a church leader. Sorry Aurora just annoys me, always crying, get over it already. If I had to hear Dayton, Aurora and Brianna said by Kody one more time, I thought I would scream. Sorry all of this was way over the top and just plain weird.

.

Haha, they can't pronounce "picture" because they were homeschooled!? That's hilarious!

[algebra]

I go back and forth on the issue of how the Browns view themselves and their viewers. Some of the things we've seen lately are almost too bizarre to be true. But I get a very strong sense of high-and-mighty from all of the Brown adults - as in, if you, the viewer, don't understand some of the things we do, it's because you aren't persecuted 24/7 like we are! You don't know what it's like! So you will never understand what we go through every day! We believe in living this lifestyle!

I just can't get behind the theory that these people trot out ridiculous and jaw-dropping storylines just to keep the money rolling in. I think they believe everything they do is somehow going to cause the viewers to say, "Oh, NOW I get it! Polygamy rocks!" And I'm sure they do have a smattering of viewers who buy everything the Browns try to sell (and probably a few that want to be Wifey #5). I'd imagine that the snark-viewers greatly outnumber the other viewers by this point, however.

It could be like the way the "experts" on Married At First Sight came to view the viewers. Don't know if any of you watched it, but the viewers absolutely trashed the experts for the terrible job they did matching the couples. And the experts countered by claiming that the viewers just aren't intelligent enough to understand the complexity of the process.

I figure it's like that, we are just too dumb to understand how wonderful polygamy is, so now they will have to be less subtle. Look for Christine to tell us, every week, how each episode illustrates the differences between polygamy and monogamy, "see, in monogamy you can't do that, in polygamy you can do this." We will probably have this pointed out to us every week, from the couch. They'll make it simple for us, because we're too dumb to figure it out.

[leighroda]

I'm not sure about how I feel about the necklace Meri got, if it were from adults or the adults told the kids to give it to her, I can see it being an FU... But if it really is from the kids and they really wanted to just do something nice out of appreciation then I'm not going to fault them.

I wonder if Solomon and plyg fetus are going to get plaques too, we can't have the little prince feeling left out that his siblings got plaques and he didn't.

I have no idea how the planet thing works either, like how as children you are sealed to your parents but then you get married and get your own planet if you're a boy, or go to your husbands planet if you're a girl, so essentially the number of children you have wouldn't matter, so is it just you and the wives? Or do they go to their parents? It's so confusing.

[4leafclover]

I find it confusing too--I've always wondered, what if the wife dies first?  What does she do, just hang around in space waiting for her husband to die and settle on his planet so she can join him?  Or does she go to a "holding" planet and wait?  These are burning questions that must be answered!!!

[leighroda]

I have heard the answer to that one, if the wife dies first she goes to a lesser planet until the husband dies and she can join him... Someone here told me that a week or 2 ago, I think I understood it right but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[CofCinci]

Only the Kody Brown Family could make space travel so boring.

So wife has to wait on an empty planet until husband dies?

[Kohola3]

It's so confusing.

 

And maybe there is some rule book for all of this in some sacred vault or it's written on a stone somewhere but it doesn't involve the Brown Clowns.  They make up their own rules weekly to suit whatever  is in the TLC tome of How to Keep a Really Boring Show Alive.

 

Although i bet even devout believers have a clue how this all works.  It's just too bizarre and I don't think the original recipe took into account modern situations like multiple divorces, adoption, gay marriage, etc.

[Snarklepuss]

I only read 5 pages of posts so far, but haven't seen this mentioned.

Did anyone find the scene with Meri on the computer to be kind of foreshadowing? It just seemed odd the way they were filming her scrolling away on the computer, not saying much, then a close-up shot of her hand on the mouse, then she receives a text on her cellphone next to the computer, which she immediately scoops up, reads, and then quickly turns off her phone.

It was just strange to me ... like a nod to the audience who knows about the Catfish. Were we supposed to think she was communicating with him?

Or am I just looking too closely?

 

Actually, I mentioned it on last week's thread after seeing it on the coming attractions for this week's episode, and yes, I think that's what we're supposed to think.  The show seems to be capitalizing on what the public is thinking by giving us "teasers" as to what's coming.  Whether they actually deal with that head on or not is still debatable.  I'm also down a page or so back about how I think Kody and the producers are on to the fact that viewers are "hate watching" the show and are now not so much showing the world how "wonderful" polygamy is, but attempting to make viewers watch by following the "any attention, even negative attention is better than no attention" philosophy.

 

On another subject, there is some overlap between sociopaths and narcissists, and I don't think Kody is a classic sociopath, but a classic narcissist.  He definitely needs admiration and validation all the time and is very concerned with his image, whereas sociopaths usually don't have that characteristic, at least not anywhere near to that extent.

 

Also, I had the same thought about that necklace being Meri's "consolation prize" for all her "sacrifice".  A sacrifice which I think was actually forced on her and made to look like it was her idea.  They are trying to push down the audience's throat how much they "appreciate" what she did "for the kids".  Meanwhile I don't think the kids had so much to do with why they did this.  They are still in some ways trying to make the audience think they had the best of intentions when it's painfully obvious that it was done for self-serving reasons by Kodouche and Robyn.

[Twopper]

 

I'm not sure about how I feel about the necklace Meri got, if it were from adults or the adults told the kids to give it to her, I can see it being an FU... But if it really is from the kids and they really wanted to just do something nice out of appreciation then I'm not going to fault them.

I just can't see it being from the kids on their own.  I didn't look that closely at it, but it seemed like it is probably less expensive than the ring in the jewelry commercial just because I don't recall the diamonds being large at all.. I just don't see the kids thinking this up on their own or being able to pay for it. I don't fault the kids at all for this.   there should have been gifts to Meri, Janelle, and Christine for their acceptance of Robyn's kids.  A gift to Meri for the divorce should have been separate.  I just can't stand Robyn so maybe that's why I want to blame her for this and why I think it is an insult to Meri.

[Galloway Cave]

Robyn planned the party while the kids were in Montana with their father for two weeks, so I am betting that Robyn had everything to do with the gifts and the kids had nothing to do with them or the little speech they had to say.

[Kohola3]

I just don't see the kids thinking this up on their own or being able to pay for it.

 

I agree.  I can't see kids of that age saying "Gee, let's spend a bunch of money we don't have on something from a De Beers commercial that has some sort of slogan that we don't even understand on someone we don't have much to do with".  I'm with Galloway Cave, this has Sobbyn's stink all over it.

[Granny58]

It could be like the way the "experts" on Married At First Sight came to view the viewers. Don't know if any of you watched it, but the viewers absolutely trashed the experts for the terrible job they did matching the couples. And the experts countered by claiming that the viewers just aren't intelligent enough to understand the complexity of the process.

I figure it's like that, we are just too dumb to understand how wonderful polygamy is, so now they will have to be less subtle. Look for Christine to tell us, every week, how each episode illustrates the differences between polygamy and monogamy, "see, in monogamy you can't do that, in polygamy you can do this." We will probably have this pointed out to us every week, from the couch. They'll make it simple for us, because we're too dumb to figure it out.

Christine's comparisons of monogamy to polygamy frankly are pointless.  THEY aren't doing it for the advantages (so called) of it but because their faith demands it.  If it wasn't religious I doubt it would have occurred to them to ever do it.  They would be monos like the rest of us.  It wasn't that they thought it through, decided "hey, that sounds great,  we can chat about how dumb our shared husband is and have help with the kids," and went for it.  When your entrance into Heaven depends on it, you'll accept it.