S02.E06: Two Birds, One Millstone

[gameoff]

The Catherine looking dead and then being alive scene made me think that it's Catherine that Caleb asks Michaela about during the flash forwards.

 

This show is so twisty, it hurts my brain ... in a good way.

Edited October 31, 2015 by gameoff

[Eolivet]

I'd been enjoying the seemingly never-ending twists this year, but "the Hapstalls' real bio kid is a super hacker spying on Oliver and Connor!" may be a bridge too far for me. What I like about the show is the villains are complicated: Sam was awful, but married to Annalise. The DA is irritating, but just doing her job. And also, both ended/ends up dead, so it's not like the scales were too imbalanced. If this guy is a murderer (speculation) and has the ability to spy on Oliver the super hacker, then he's basically an all-powerful super-villain and I'm not here for that. The show moves so fast that maybe Frank will have this guy in the trunk of his car tomorrow, but just seeing him really bothered me.

 

I think because as others have said, even though Oliver is a hacker, he's basically the closest thing the show has to a white hat. So, now an innocent is going to pay for the crimes of the guilty? On a show that's so bleak, where the good guys and bad guys are one and the same, and everybody is varying shades of gray, it bothers me that the one seemingly bad guy appears as if he's going to target the one seemingly good guy (or the closest thing they have to a good guy).

[represent]

 

Plot twist:  Caleb and Michaela are biological siblings.

OMG, could you imagine. Just check her in for psychiatric treatment if that happens, because it will be official that she can't catch a break in the love department. Not to mention, if they end up being intimate, OK, I'm gonna stop.

 

Her family is wealthy, but it wasn't clearly delineated in S1 where that wealth came from.  It was a rather unfortunate implication because they were Latino.

 

OK, because I got this sentiment from reading posts and thought I may have missed something when she spent the holidays with her family.  Because all I do remember is her being  asked to leave because she was disrespectful. But I can't remember the dialogue. Does anyone remember what she and her parents arguing about? I remember the father felt she said something disrespectful to her mother but I never thought they gave any hint that her family made their money illegally.

Edited November 1, 2015 by represent

[PrincessTT]

OK, because I got this sentiment from reading posts and thought I may have missed something when she spent the holidays with her family.  Because all I do remember is her being  asked to leave because she was disrespectful. But I can't remember the dialogue. Does anyone remember what she and her parents arguing about? I remember the father felt she said something disrespectful to her mother but I never thought they gave any hint that her family made their money illegally.

 

Frank made a couple of references to "the type of family Laurel comes from" when he was talking to Annalise earlier this season. 

[represent]

 

Frank made a couple of references to "the type of family Laurel comes from" when he was talking to Annalise earlier this season.

OK, thank you. Well you know all the Keating-5  have to have some skeletons that aren't pretty and I don't think we've gotten any facts at all on Laurel's so...

 

I don't think we've gotten anything on Connor either, have we? 

 

This was by design that Anna picked these five, she knows their secrets and vulnerabilities. She knew Asher and his father's secrets and that they would all come in handy if needed. 

 

So, there's still much to unfold, I love it.

[ShadowSixx]

Maybe that's why Michaela helps Caleb in the previews of things going on in that house. Maybe she finds out Caleb is her biological brother. With two episodes left I'm nost sure if she would find that out in that time frame, unless she knew Caleb was her biological brother all along and they were living in the same orphanage place or something. Seeing as how she flat out refused to look into the biological parents to see if they had motive for wanting the Hapstall parents dead.

 

As far as Connor and his family goes, from what we seen when they were on Christmas break, Connor comes from a normal, average family who support and love him. He never said anything about family troubles and doesn't seem as of right now that his family has secrets, all except for Connor being involved in multiple murders.

Edited November 1, 2015 by ShadowSixx

[dirtypop90]

I don't think she's going to help him in the preview. I actually think she's going to be manipulating him. I'm betting they have already been intimate by that point, something happens to his sister in that house, and she's supposed to lie to him or handle him in someway so he won't point fingers at the K5.

[Dowel Jones]

One other thing comes to mind.  Did the writers choose Millstone as Asher's surname intentionally, perhaps as a harbinger?  Or is it just coincidence?  Somewhere in the dusty archives I think I remember the term as an enormous weight tied to one's neck.

[dr pepper]

 

Still, though...I love it! And I really do think it's because of the flashforwards, which assure me that every plot shenanigan is leading to a fixed endpoint.

 

I Know What You Did Next Summer

[wanderingstar]

Her family is wealthy, but it wasn't clearly delineated in S1 where that wealth came from.  It was a rather unfortunate implication because they were Latino.

 

OK, because I got this sentiment from reading posts and thought I may have missed something when she spent the holidays with her family.  Because all I do remember is her being  asked to leave because she was disrespectful. But I can't remember the dialogue. Does anyone remember what she and her parents arguing about? I remember the father felt she said something disrespectful to her mother but I never thought they gave any hint that her family made their money illegally.

Yes - I never got a sense that Laurel's family's money came from any kind of illegal business. Even Frank's "with a dad like hers" comment earlier this season could have meant anything. In the one flashback to Christmas, it was implied her father was a bit domineering and her mother was snobby and possibly neglectful. Unfortunate, yes but hardly criminal.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Gillian Rosh

[muessigkeit]

I got the feeling her father is a politician or something? He told a story about going golfing with "city commissioner Springer"...

[secnarf]

One other thing comes to mind.  Did the writers choose Millstone as Asher's surname intentionally, perhaps as a harbinger?  Or is it just coincidence?  Somewhere in the dusty archives I think I remember the term as an enormous weight tied to one's neck.

They would have put a great deal of thought into the characters' names, so I don't think it's a coincidence, but that doesn't necessarily mean it says something specific about Asher's character. When I looked it up on Wikipedia, a millstone is used for grinding (milling) things such as grains and vegetable products.

 

Yes - I never got a sense that Laurel's family's money came from any kind of illegal business. Even Frank's "with a dad like hers" comment earlier this season could have meant anything. In the one flashback to Christmas, it was implied her father was a bit domineering and her mother was snobby and possibly neglectful. Unfortunate, yes but hardly criminal.

I thought the implication was that he was involved with drug cartels? But I have absolutely no idea where I got that idea from, so I could be completely making it up.

[DearEvette]

 

 

Yes - I never got a sense that Laurel's family's money came from any kind of illegal business. Even Frank's "with a dad like hers" comment earlier this season could have meant anything. In the one flashback to Christmas, it was implied her father was a bit domineering and her mother was snobby and possibly neglectful. Unfortunate, yes but hardly criminal.

 

 

I thought the implication was that he was involved with drug cartels? But I have absolutely no idea where I got that idea from, so I could be completely making it up.

 

The funny thing is, the show itself never says anything bad about Laurel's family.  We just get her acting out at the dinner table over  Christmas.

 

And yet, I also got the distinct vibe her family were not on the up and up.  Maybe I have been conditioned by too many movies.  But the quick shot of the opulence of her family's house and then the whole family around the table with the domineering father who kinda looked like Al Pacino in Scarface.  And her mother, who kinda resembled Michelle Pfeiffer in Scarface if she were happier and had kids.  And the sense that he is undoubtedly the head of the family who rules with an iron fist totally pinged me as her family being respectable on top but dirty underneath.  Don't know why.  it isn't a Latino thing, but a trope thing.

Edited November 1, 2015 by DearEvette

[preeya]

This show is really getting convoluted.

[represent]

 

And yet, I also got the distinct vibe her family were not on the up and up.  Maybe I have been conditioned by too many movies.  But the quick shot of the opulence of her family's house and then the whole family around the table with the domineering father who kinda looked like Al Pacino in Scarface.  And her mother, who kinda resembled Michelle Pfeiffer in Scarface if she were happier and had kids.  And the sense that he is undoubtedly the head of the family who rules with an iron fist totally pinged me as her family being respectable on top but dirty underneath.  Don't know why.  it isn't a Latino thing, but a trope thing.

And it might be the way they are playing the character herself. I've seen post stating that she looks like she could murder someone with ease, that there is just something creepy, off about her and I don't think those sentiments came from her family dinner.  I think it comes from Laurel herself, there's something so sinister about her to some viewers that her behavior is getting transferred onto her family and it doesn't help that they did seem like they were powerful in that dinner scene. The assumption that, that power comes illegally I think is because of Laurel. As in she's totally creepy and therefore, something has to be off with that family of hers. 

Edited November 1, 2015 by represent

[secnarf]

And it might be the way they are playing the character herself. I've seen post stating that she looks like she could murder someone with ease, that there is just something creepy, off about her and I don't think those sentiments came from her family dinner.  I think it comes from Laurel herself, there's something so sinister about her to some viewers that her behavior is getting transferred onto her family and it doesn't help that they did seem like they were powerful in that dinner scene. The assumption that, that power comes illegally I think is because of Laurel. As in she's totally creepy and therefore, something has to be off with that family of hers. 

Well, we've also had comments from other characters (Frank and Annalise) when Frank thought it was Laurel who killed Rebecca, which implied that there is something shady about Laurel's family as well.

[represent]

One other thing comes to mind.  Did the writers choose Millstone as Asher's surname intentionally, perhaps as a harbinger?  Or is it just coincidence?  Somewhere in the dusty archives I think I remember the term as an enormous weight tied to one's neck.

Yeah,  it's  a burden or something that grinds or crushes.

 

[Grace19]

I just don't get where all this 'Michaela is desperate', is coming from. there is nothing desperate about her. she is just an uptight girl that came out of a bad relationship and just wants to enjoy herself for once. she was not interested in Levi at first till Connor pushed her, it was just about sex to her. but from the beginning she was shown to have a connection with Caled, so i think its going to be deeper with him and not just about needing a man. i love Michaela a lot this season. i use to love Wes but he is getting on my nerves, but I'm still open to liking the character again, since i love the actor. please, caled can stay, the actor is so handsome, he's my weekly eye candy.

I love Connor and Oliver as characters, but I somehow don,t care much about, Connor and Oliver as a couple, so I won't be overtly crushed if Oliver's death will be used to further the plot.

I just love Asher and will be unhappy if they turn him into a rapist. I love Laurel too, that is surprising to me, I did not like her last season. Annalise is still my favourite. I'm indifferent to Frank and Bonnie.

[Deanie87]

Oh my god, the peach cobbler. Bringing that cobbler over to Nate's place like she was Bree from Desperate Housewives may be the first thing that Annalise has done that has well and truly shocked me.

Nate must have been like:

 

Edited November 2, 2015 by Deanie87

[dr pepper]

One other thing comes to mind.  Did the writers choose Millstone as Asher's surname intentionally, perhaps as a harbinger?  Or is it just coincidence?  Somewhere in the dusty archives I think I remember the term as an enormous weight tied to one's neck.

A millstone, also called a grindstone, is a piece of some slightly rough stone cut into a disk with a hole in the center. You put whatever it is you want to grind on one, put another on top, and put a pole through the holes. Then you turn the upper stone until you've ground what you're grinding as small as you want. You've probably seen a picture of peasant life in previous times where an ox or donkey is trudging around in a circle attached to a pole which is attached to a horizontal disk. That's a millstone. So is what you see inside a traditional 3 gear waterwheel driven mill.

Anyway, there's a place in the New Testament where Jesus says that God's punishment for anyone who hurts a child is so bad that you'd be better off being thrown into the water to drown, with a millstone around your neck as weight. At least, that's how the KJV puts it. Jesus was refering to a smaller stone, the kind that would be used on top of a counter and turned by hand. That stone could be lifted by one strong person with both arms, but would still be too heavy for the victim to free themself. And as a KJV reading culture, the english adopted the term "millstone" to mean any figurative encumberance to one's goals. "That old slander has been a millstone around my neck, holding me back from advancement." "The firm gave me a partner who's been nothing but a millstone; so incompentent i have to do both our work." It's similar to the wayt the word "albatross" is used.

 

So yeah, i figure the name was chosen deliberately.

Edited November 2, 2015 by dr pepper

[Percysowner]

But even so, sounds like shifting blame. She's upset she switched from her usual process of vetting her romantic partners and getting to know them before hopping in the sack with them. But instead of acknowledging that at all, she's just saying Wes "let her do it" and Conner convinced her to do it. It bugs me. But I get others see it differently. I almost never like it when characters play victim and fail to self-reflect.

I don't think Wes sees Michaela as helpless at all. In fact, I think he would be more likely to believe Michaela would sniff out Levi was bad news before she slept with Levi. Instead of quickly sleeping with Levi, and then playing wronged woman. Michaela acted "out of character" with Levi which was pretty much the whole point of the s/l.

 

The thing for me is Wes did "let her sleep with Eggs". She thought she was sleeping with Levi, a hot guy who she liked. Wes knew he was Eggs and didn't tell Michaela. He decided that the guy he had just met could be trusted to not sleep with Michaela simply beause Wes asked him nicely. There are things you warn people about. You warn someone who is helping you cover up a murder that she is dating someone related to the person you committed the murder for. You let her know that Levi may have reasons to get close to Michaela that have nothing to do with sexual attraction. I don't see what Michaela is doing as shifting responsibility. I see it as a statement of fact. Wes let her date someone he knew she would not date if she had all the facts. Frankly it would be the same even if she hadn't slept with him. The sex isn't the issue, letting Michaela be in a situation without all the relevant facts is.

[jhlipton]

If they make Asher a rapist and he took part in the gang rape, I will not like him and will want him to be killed.

 

I will not like TPTB  and will want them to be killed.

 

The case of the week is boring.

It was a bit of a name-drop over an actual atrocity. A trans-woman was accused of manslaughter was sent to a male prison. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CeCe_McDonald

Edited November 2, 2015 by jhlipton

[Slakkie]

It's hard to believe that Ollie, an experienced hacker, didn't have programs that would detect that his laptop was hacked.  If he did, then the new suspect must be an advanced hacker who, after he detected Ollie's hack and got the IP address of his laptop, probably used a high level. almost undetectable "backdoor"  hack on it that gave him complete control.  Ollie may have been over matched on this one and it could cost him.  Wait is this show "How to Get Away..." or CSI:Cyber?

So Mr Slakkie is in fact a real hacker (I know, can you believe there actually are paying jobs that do this) and he laughs at all of this stuff these guys can do and yes if Olivier in fact had skills he would totally see that the CAMERA LIGHT ON HIS LAPTOP was on.  And yes my camera is always covered because creep crap can happen.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Slakkie

[secnarf]

So Mr Slakkie is in fact a real hacker (I know, can you believe there actually are paying jobs that do this) and he laughs at all of this stuff these guys can do and yes if Olivier in fact had skills he would totally see that the CAMERA LIGHT ON HIS LAPTOP was on.  And yes my camera is always covered because creep crap can happen.

See, I don't get how you can not notice that the camera light is on, and therefore my camera is always uncovered because I'd never miss the little green light.

But, I don't necessarily see how that protects me from someone listening in without necessarily hearing. Even if the camera is covered and they hack into the camera, they'd be able to hear everything and you wouldn't know because the camera is covered and therefore you wouldn't see the camera light on.

I have also wondered if there is a way for people to hack in through the camera and not have the camera light turn on. If there is, then that not only solves the mystery of why Oliver didn't see the light on, but it would be the impetus for me deciding to cover my laptop camera with a sticky note.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Mamma Mia! How To Get Away With Murder's Frank Is The Murderous Son Of Italian Stereotypes!
More like How To Get Away With A Plate Of Spaghetti, right?

[Slakkie]

See, I don't get how you can not notice that the camera light is on, and therefore my camera is always uncovered because I'd never miss the little green light.

But, I don't necessarily see how that protects me from someone listening in without necessarily hearing. Even if the camera is covered and they hack into the camera, they'd be able to hear everything and you wouldn't know because the camera is covered and therefore you wouldn't see the camera light on.

I have also wondered if there is a way for people to hack in through the camera and not have the camera light turn on. If there is, then that not only solves the mystery of why Oliver didn't see the light on, but it would be the impetus for me deciding to cover my laptop camera with a sticky note.

Without getting too technical if you do this stuff for a living then you make it pretty difficult to get in.   We actually have an encrypted tunnel to a server that we use when traveling.  Hacking into a network is pretty easy for the most part but a lot of what is portrayed on tv is well fiction.  There is no way someone as savy as Oliver would be that dumb BUT it is a tv show.  But in real life I do cover my camera at all times!

[RedheadZombie]

I didn't like the case of the week. I thought the actress was pretty unconvincing, and rather a poor actress. I don't know if it's just too difficult to engage viewers in such a short time, or if it's the cases themselves.

[dirtypop90]

The thing for me is Wes did "let her sleep with Eggs". She thought she was sleeping with Levi, a hot guy who she liked. Wes knew he was Eggs and didn't tell Michaela. He decided that the guy he had just met could be trusted to not sleep with Michaela simply beause Wes asked him nicely. There are things you warn people about. You warn someone who is helping you cover up a murder that she is dating someone related to the person you committed the murder for. You let her know that Levi may have reasons to get close to Michaela that have nothing to do with sexual attraction. I don't see what Michaela is doing as shifting responsibility. I see it as a statement of fact. Wes let her date someone he knew she would not date if she had all the facts. Frankly it would be the same even if she hadn't slept with him. The sex isn't the issue, letting Michaela be in a situation without all the relevant facts is.

Idk Michaela keeps explicitly saying, you let me have sex with...you let me sleep with, which makes it sound like she's angry that she slept with him. If they didn't have sex, I don't think she would be going on like this.

Wes thought he could work with Levi without it hurting anybody. Was it stupid for him to trust someone he didn't know? Yes. But his gf is missing, he thinks she's dead, so he's desperate. He's not acting with malicious intent. So I fail to understand why so much venom is being spewed towards him. I get no one else cared about Rebecca..I didn't..but Wes clearly did.

Edited November 3, 2015 by dirtypop90

[Fable]

Idk Michaela keeps explicitly saying, you let me have sex with...you let me sleep with, which makes it sound like she's angry that she slept with him. If they didn't have sex, I don't think she would be going on like this.

Wes thought he could work with Levi without it hurting anybody. Was it stupid for him to trust someone he didn't know? Yes. But his gf is missing, he thinks she's dead, so he's desperate. He's not acting with malicious intent. So I fail to understand why so much venom is being spewed towards him. I get no one else cared about Rebecca..I didn't..but Wes clearly did.

 

Michaela's wording was the problem here.  She, and she only, made the decision to have sex with Levi.  However, the reason Wes keeps getting shit for this seems to be the fact that he really should have told her that the guy who has been sniffing around was actually Rebecca's foster brother, whether she was sleeping with him or not.  

[SDiamond]

Anyone keeping up with the flash forwards/shooting scenes? Seems to me everyone is against Analise &/or helping cover up/set up her shooting? Why? What's going on?

Ana shot, Connor yelling it's YOUR fault.

Nate called Ana when she was shot on the floor and left message? He picked up the K4 and took Micheala to see Kaleb. She had to be convincing when he asks where Katherine is?

Frank put on that performance at the hospital w/ Katherine unconscious in the backseat. He obviously drugged Katherine and planted her elsewhere (blood on her shirt)?

Bonnie had blood on her shirt and got rid of the evidence in store's restroom.

Asher made a run for it, went to police station to give a statement.

Edited November 3, 2015 by SDiamond

[dirtypop90]

IA my issue was always with her wording. Wes didn't/couldn't let anyone sleep with her.

And also I don't believe he thought Levi was still snooping around her until he heard them on the phone. That makes him stupid, yes, awful and responsible for her sleeping with him, no. IMO but Michaela was literally speaking to him like he's the scum of the earth, but perhaps part of it is that michaela has a tendency to speak down to people in general

Edited November 3, 2015 by dirtypop90

[Delphi]

My lord, that was something. Everything has been pretty much covered by guys already but I thought I'd pop in top mention of Ollie dies, I'm pretty much done with this show. I couldn't handle that.

[JustaPerson]

Agreed. At this point flashes of Viola Davis's brilliance and those two are the only reasons I bother watching anymore.

[shoetingstar]

I think it's probably true that Annalise doesn't know where Rebecca is. She would make sure Frank wouldn't tell her.  Yes, she knows she's dead, which is a huge lie of omission, but in technical terms, she doesn't know where Rebecca is.

 

Also Wes is the worst.  You killed someone!  While helping some mopey girl you were in love with after 2 minutes steal something!  Hypocrite!

 

I hope they don't kill off Oliver.  I like him.  However, if he ever did find out what Conner was really involved in, he'd end it.  I'd rather that happen, actually.

 

Laurel is still boring.  Laurel and Frank together are also boring.  

Amen to your whole post!

LOL, this show is so damn good, we even question the authenticity of the cobbler.  I can't stop laughing.

OK, so I would qualify myself as technologically challenged, so here goes, how the hell did the aunts son gain access to Oliver's computer? What on earth is going on?

And Frank/Catherine, was it me or did they not show her knocked out in the back seat of his car AFTER he showed up at the hospital faking concern for Anna?

 

Damn that was cold and haunting the way he just calmly walked out of that hospital.

So the scene with him placing her down in field/graveyard, had to happen after the hospital scene right?

 

I only ask because in real time they showed the scene and it looked like Anna had not yet been shot nor was she even at the mansion yet.

 

This show has me is such a state that I even questioned whether Frank hired those people to pretend to be his family, LOL, I can't. The whole time I was like is this really his family?

 

Yes, this show is damn good because I'm thinking the same thing! I was so taken out of that scene that I had to have an explanation for how bad it was. It was the same stereotypical "Italian Family Dinner Scene" we've ever seen on TV and Film. I'm hoping the writers are better than that.

[St. Claire]

However, the reason Wes keeps getting shit for this seems to be the fact that he really should have told her that the guy who has been sniffing around was actually Rebecca's foster brother, whether she was sleeping with him or not.

 

in our financial audit a few weeks ago, we talked about materiality- the magnitude of an omission or misstatement would cause a reasonable person to make a different judgement. Levi=Eggs is material; the knowledge that Levi is Eggs would have likely caused Michaela to make a different decision than she did without that knowledge. So, as the show's self-appointed auditor, I deem that information material and decree that I hold Wes responsible for the omission.