S04.E04: Beyond Redemption

[tv echo]

This episode highlighted even more the League assassins' incompetence last season.  Now even SCPD cops can defeat Laurel, Thea and Diggle - and even Oliver! - in hand-to-hand combat, but not League assassins.  Yes, the cops had special hi-tech gadgets, but that just means the LOA is outdated and irrelevant (with their purple smoke signal communications and apparent lack of any tech).

 

I guess this means Quentin has joined TA - or at the very least become their Commissioner Gordon.  Despite the mediocrity of this episode, there were some really good acting scenes between PB and SA.

 

I'm fine with the one-second shot of Felicity crying while listening to Ray's audio recording. She cared about him as a friend, so of course she grieved.  (If she hadn't shown grief, she'd be criticized for being unfeeling and only dating him last season because he was rich.)  She doesn't seem to have very many friends, so if any one of them died, she'd cry for them.

 

I think Oliver and Felicity purchased (not leased) the building that now houses his mayoral campaign hq and the new Arrowcave, so that they can control the facility.  Maybe after the campaign is over and he's elected Mayor, the campaign hq can be converted into a flower shop.  Then Laurel can quit her ADA job and become a florist (BC) while also guarding the entrance to the Arrowcave... ;)

 

BTW, I noticed that AK and SS (Sarah Schecter) were included among the EPs listed in the opening credits (in addition to MG, WM and GB).  When did that start happening?  And are MG and WM now included in the opening credits for The Flash?

Edited October 29, 2015 by tv echo

[bethy]

One of the things I liked about the Oliver/Lance scene was that while most of Oliver's words were about being angry and disgusted, his facial expression screamed betrayed to me.

He'd wanted Lance's approval because he looked up to the man, admired him, and had taken Lance's contempt and abuse because Oliver felt he'd deserved it. In a sense I think Oliver idolized Lance, and it's brutal to have some you looked up to fall. I just loved how SA played that interaction.

[dtissagirl]

One of the odd beats for me was the intercutting to Felicity listening to the recording and crying during Oliver's speech, when she was standing there in real time grinning at her adorable boyfriend in a suit.  It was a jarring juxtaposition, and added to the "cobbled together" feel of this episode.

 

That end montage was pretty horrid. Yikes. If felt like a clip show of deleted scenes, rather than an actual end-of-episode montage, which are super lame, but that usually work more as a coda, than whatever the hell THIS was. Ugh.

Edited October 29, 2015 by dtissagirl

[EmilyBettFan]

This was ridiculous. Apart from Oliver, Diggle, Felicity and Thea, Sara all the others were so bad. The same stance in every scene from the one we just can't seem to get rid of! I only liked that Quentin scene because of Oliver.

Edited October 29, 2015 by EmilyBettFan

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One thing I disliked about the whole Sara storyline is that I feel like I already watched this, not only when Thea came back from the dead last season but also when Angel came back from the hell dimension (and partially when Buffy came back from heaven). I like Sara and I'm sure coming back from the dead is traumatizing but I just want to fast forward through all the Sara is feral/disoriented/whatever scenes.

 

And for someone who claims to be concerned about her sister, Laurel just chained her up in the basement. How about a nice hot bath, some clean clothes, and maybe a brush?

Edited October 29, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Sakura12]

Finally got a chance to watch this ep because the Bulls were playing. 

 

Good job, Laurel. Leaving a feral assassin chained in a basement for alone for hours on end, so she can remember she's an assassin and escape. Can we please find out Sara was adopted or something. So she can get away from the Lance's. Her family treated her like a dog, she deserves better. I'm also going to hope that Darhk want's Sara dead because she stopped him from doing something in the past.

 

Also Laurel telling her dad that LOA has the Lazarus Pits that brings people back from the dead. No it doesn't Laurel, everyone told you bringing someone back from the dead has never been done before. No one has any idea what is happening with Sara or if she can be saved. She is so delusional it hurts. Even Darhk was surprised it worked. 

 

I FF the flashback scenes because don't care. 

 

The Quentin and Oliver scenes were good and things needed to be said. The bad cops story line was dumb and showcases even more what a joke the LOA was. 

 

Like most here I"m waiting for the LoT set up to be over, but unlike most I'm waiting for it to be over so I don't have to watch this show anymore. From not watching last season I find I don't really care about the other characters enough to continue watching with Because Comics still in existence.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Sakura12

[writersblock51]

I was unsettled by this episode for many reasons.  By the end of the episode, though, I enjoyed some parts more than I expected to and some were more horrific than I had pictured.

 

What I liked:

- all of the Quentin and Oliver scenes - they had been hyped as being good and I thought they were excellent.  The angry one at Q's apartment felt like it was years in the making.  The facial expressions matched what they were saying. 

 

- The Queen siblings.  While there are some questions about logistics (is Verdant still open? Does Thea have money of her own?), I can fanwank them for now because I enjoyed their scenes a lot.  I think Thea's excitement over the impending engagement is wonderful, too

 

- Damien and Quentin's scene - When I first saw the spoiler clip of them, it made no sense that Q would go to him and spill about Sara BUT it made sense now because Q knew more about Damien than we thought. Plus, we learned just 1 new thing as an audience (unless you were spoiled) - Damien is a father

 

- Felicity and Curtis dynamics - but the risk of Felicity becoming an Island again is increasing, so the sooner Curtis is pulled more closely into Team Arrow's machinery, the better

 

- Laurel basically having her ass handed to her in the first fight and her canary cry thingy stopped mid scream; I burst out laughing at that part.  That's how I expect her fighting level to be at this point, if we were trying to be the least bit realistic

 

- the new lair!!!  Again, toss out all of the logistics - it's still pretty gorgeous.  The location is ridiculous but certainly in line with Lair 1.0 being below Verdant

 

- Oliver's mayoral announcement speech and the shots with the voiceover.  OK, ok, it's Slade from S2 all over again but I did like the wording that Thea and her team came up with.  And Oliver/SA sold it well, IMO

 

- the female cop's take charge attitude... until she folded under Quentin's speech.  I didn't like or condone what she and her group were doing but I thought the actress did a good job

 

 

What I disliked:

 

- the entire cop vs cop story.  I had trouble understanding the motives of the 'SWAT team' and, even after reading the IGN review, I'm still largely unclear what the point of it was except to make it obvious to Quentin that things in his department were worse than he could possibly imagine

 

- the Ray stuff.  I just want it over with.

 

- ALL of the set up for LoT.  Why can't that be done on the actual show?  It's a time suck on Arrow so far, and I think it speaks volumes on the confidence the LoT showrunners have for it.  Shouldn't the new show be able to stand on it's own? 

 

- the one way street of positive promotion for the Flash.  Cisco, bless his tech-y heart, gets praise - again.  Yet Arrow rarely gets the casual and positive shout out in return.  Maybe Felicity does but Oliver/Arrow?  No, when he's referenced, he's Joe's example to Barry of how NOT to be a hero and Cisco dissed the "Green" in Green Arrow *yet Golden Glider is just peachy*    It should be a two way street and I'm tired of the Flash being praised while Arrow isn't

 

- Why is KC always crossing her arms?  It's a distracting and inherently unapproachable choice of what to do with her arms.  Crossed arms signals a closed mind and attitude.  Add her resting judgment face and I'm wondering how Laurel gets anyone to do what she wants....

 

- Sara in Chains.  My goodness, everything is wrong and awful about that arc,  As others have said, how on earth did Sara get transported back to Star City in that condition?  Why is the show ignoring that?  Where exactly is she?  The old lair?  An apartment building basement - which is certainly going to get some inadvertant traffic.  No comfortable amenities like a sweater/jacket, blankets, a pillow... how about some damn shoes?!?!?!?!  What the hell? 

 

- Quentin's Sporadic Heart Condition.  This is lazy writing at best.  Quentin obviously had a shit-tastic day from start to finish.  Just 1 scene of him taking heart medication would have sort of helped, but no.  The show made the point of him mentioning his condition to Oliver but that was AFTER seeing Sara in Chains.  How is he not clutching his chest?  So his heart was fine for the horror show in the basement, that Laurel gave him absolutely NO warning about whatsoever (yet she hid Sara's death from him for months because she was soooooooooooooooo worried about his ticker), yet an familiar person surprising him in his apartment is the thing to maybe send him over the edge?  Or when he was manhandled, kidnapped and chained up?  No chest issues?

 

- Lack of Diggle.  I'd rather see Diggle out in the field than Laurel, period.  We rarely saw Speedy in action (though I love that Thea is all smiles after she takes someone down, LOL) either.  Three Team Arrow fighters is optimal, four is too much for filming purposes especially once you throw in the bad guys they're fighting. 

 

- Laurel.  If I didn't know any better, I'd say that the writing was to make Laurel clearly delusional.  All of the "Daddy" mentions, in a very odd voice, add to that, I think.   If the show actually went with the angle that Laurel was also spiraling, mentally, then I could buy into all of this.  She acts and says some very crazy stuff that is screaming 'gone off the deep end for reasons' to me.  YET - that's not the direction the show says it's going in with her.  These actions are what then?  Heroic?  Loving?  Brave?  What on earth could the show possibly think Laurel is besides a delusional person who also needs professional help?  

 

- The inconsistent fighting skills of Laurel in just one episode.  She's either kick ass or she's not, especially in the field, in full buckled up costume with sticks.  The hallway attack scene?  I have no problem with how she fought there.  She was absolutely surprised and without her suit and weapons.  It made sense that she'd be subdued.

 

- Oliver's fighting skills.  It's his show.  He's more than an elite fighter by now.  Him getting overpowered again and again makes no sense.  I also dislike that his skills seem to lessen while the junior members of the team increase (though not consistently)

 

- Felicity's physical reactions... from the chair sliding (that has happened to me too often over the years, I could absolutely relate and chuckle) and the arms wide/shrug thing.  Also loved her and Thea's reactions to Oliver's speech, very nice

 

- the Flashbacks.  Useless.

 

I'm going to tune in next week for Constantine but that's all I have to look forward to.  I am disappointed that the LoT set up and it's Lance Family Drama is taking up so much time.  More Diggle please!

Edited October 29, 2015 by writersblock51

[MSquared]

I'm not reading through five pages of comments, so I'm not sure if this was touched on but...Oliver convincing Quentin to be his inside man with Darhk makes me feel even stronger that it'll be Quentin in the grave.  He's talked him into it and when DD finds out Lance is playing him, he'll be a dead man.  Just me?  Okay, I'll show myself out.

[apinknightmare]

One thing I didn't quite get is where exactly did Quentin go to find information on DD? Like, how would he have known that DD went into the LP and that he was in the LoA? Did he do a bing search too? Does Wikipedia have LoA roster info through the years?

Edited October 29, 2015 by apinknightmare

[nksarmi]

Well I'm clearly in the minority because I like the LoT setup on both shows.  I think because it's there, it feels more like the writing teams are writing for a shared universe.  Hopefully we won't get anymore "this character is like this on their show but because this is  a different show with a different tone, we have to write them differently here in the cross overs."  I like consistency and I think LoT will tie this universe together in such a way that it feels more consistent.

 

Plus I feel like all of this stuff with Sara and eventually Ray is being used to build in show canon for the general theme of season four.  I mean I will be shocked at this point if Darhk's minions aren't dead or reanimated dead or something like that (so that all this stuff with Sara is related to that) - if Ray's shrinking tech doesn't save the company - and if Quentin isn't dead in the ground and his sacrifice doesn't lead Oliver to being more "in the light" than ever before.

 

The only thing I don't get is what's up with the flashbacks. They could not feel more disconnected than they do now.

 

Finally - I like how Felicity is being used this season - a LOT.

[Password]

Question, is Palmer Tech super close to the mayor offices?

Or am I nitpicking at the speed at which Felicity went between the two? It felt like the lair was again in the PT basement.

I really liked the emotional scenes in this episode. I agree with the above posters about Felicity being segregated on another island. As long as she and Curtis are integrated fairly quickly into the mix of things (which is what I hoped), I'll be OK.

And OK, I was EXTREMELY touched by EBR's performance about Ray. I hate seeing Felicity sad but seeing her sad is also an excellent platform for EBR to hurt me emotionally.

[paigow]

As long as she and Curtis are integrated fairly quickly

Curtis will be Cisco 2.0 because Team Arrow can't depend on good commute times from Central City.

[Primetimer]

Also there's a new Arrowlair. And yes, it has a salmon ladder.

Read the story

[quarks]

 

BTW, I noticed that AK and SS (Sarah Schecter) were included among the EPs listed in the opening credits (in addition to MG, WM and GB).  When did that start happening?  And are MG and WM now included in the opening credits for The Flash?

 

Answering in Behind the Scenes thread.

[Sakura12]

I can see why Sara ditched the basement, she was probably cold and no one would answer her simple question of her name. 

 

Laurel showing a picture to her undead sister. "This is me, this is you and who is that? That's daddy" 

Sara: "Who...am...I?"

Laurel turns around smiling at her dad. 

Sara throws her chains around Laurel: " Hey, me, I asked you a question. Answer it!"

[looptab]

Thea's face here is too cute :) (Also kinda terrifying, because if you don't know the context, it looks like she's about to slaughter those people in the elevator).

I also loved her delivery of the cockroach line.

But there was a line (just one?) that didn't make sense: "what I've known for three years: Oliver Queen is going to save this city". Three years? Wasn't it nine months ago? haha.

[apinknightmare]

LMAO @ Laurel looking so pissed off/irritated there.

[dtissagirl]

I am LOVING every single one of Willa's acting choices this season. She's been a delight to watch for me.

[Sakura12]

I don't know I think Thea's face is like "this elevator is so cool" 

 

Laurel looks pissed off as usual. Someone needs to tell KC that crossing her arms doesn't make her look badass it makes her look unapproachable and cold. 

[Guest]

LMAO @ Laurel looking so pissed off/irritated there.

That's her go-to expression, along with the folded arms. Seriously, I can't unsee it.

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, Thea just looks excited to me. And it's not only the arm crossing with Laurel in this scene, she also looks pissed off in the face.

[AyChihuahua]

LMAO @ Laurel looking so pissed off/irritated there.

Right after she glares at O/F, which was right after she was all weird about what Felicity was supposed to be wearing.  Is she jealous?  Is KC jealous? 

 

IT IS ALL SO WEIRD!

 

I am LOVING every single one of Willa's acting choices this season. She's been a delight to watch for me.

Agreed.  Speedy/Thea has been a huge highlight so far this season.

Edited October 29, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Guest]

I am LOVING every single one of Willa's acting choices this season. She's been a delight to watch for me.

Same. She was pretty adorable in the elevator. I'm liking the clear difference in her behavior and attitude since she sated the bloodlust for a while. It's really good so far.

[Starfish35]

Yeah Laurel acting all pissed off in the elevator was really weird. It didn't fit with the scene at all. And Thea was totally cute. "Ohhh, surprise? Gimme gimme gimme."

Edited October 29, 2015 by Starfish35

[dtissagirl]

The more Laurel sends smell the fart looks at Oliver and/or Felicity, the more I laugh, so I appreciate it tons, KC. Keep it up!

[KenyaJ]

LMAO @ Laurel looking so pissed off/irritated there.

 

It's at the point now where all there is to do anymore is laugh. Instead of Oliver calling her "pretty bird," I hope he dubs her "angry bird." It's so much more fitting.

[arjumand]

Oh, and all of you guys who were complaining flashback Oliver wasn't dark enough last week? HE IS NOW, THEY SAID THE WORD "DARK" LIKE SEVENTEEN TIMES IN THE SAME SCENE.

The best part of this is they can't even commit to the DARK when it's a FAKE DARK:

 

That is, they could have shown him fake choking Poppy - the audience knows it's fake by now, and we know she'll be ok. But no, the interesting part (watch Oliver hit rock bottom, even though it's a fake out) happens offscreen, and so once again, the audience sees something it knows already.

 

Look, when Oliver told her "I know you're not gonna like it," I though he was going to cut a finger off or something, like "Well, I threw her body into the sea, but here's a souvenir." I mean, they said dark, right?

 

But I noticed this in Season 1 - no matter how evil she is, Oliver never kills a woman (there's one in the underground casino I'm unsure of, though I suspect that was just a weird edit). There's always something in the way - Helena catches arrows, Chien Na Wei gets lucky when McKenna Hall turns up. And then, once he gets close enough to Chien Na Wei, it's season 2 and he's stopped killing. Not even Isabel Rochev, who gets killed twice - the first time by Felicity, the second by Nyssa.

 

Not that I want Oliver to go around killing women, don't get me wrong. But this was a fake-out. The entire audience knew this.

 

I'm kind of uncritical with shows I love (that's how I managed to stay with Supernatural for 8 years, until season 9 broke me), so I enjoyed the episode. Mostly. I just have to turn my nitpicker off, otherwise I'd be wondering how Oliver managed to walk around without any problems after being stabbed in the side by Rutina Wesley. Or wasn't he stabbed? He acted like he was - during, that is. Not after.

[apinknightmare]

She stabbed him in the back-near his magical spinal cord, apparently.

[AyChihuahua]

The more Laurel sends smell the fart looks at Oliver and/or Felicity, the more I laugh, so I appreciate it tons, KC. Keep it up!

I get really frustrated when I don't understand things.  For example, if I'm in a traffic jam and there seems to be no reason for it, I get ragey.  If, on the other hand, I can see obvious signs of construction ahead, I'm fine.  So I would really like to understand what they think they're writing Laurel towards, and what KC is trying to/thinks she's portraying.  The elevator scene is a GREAT example, because there is no reason, none whatsoever, for her to be so GD pissed off. 

[KenyaJ]

I get really frustrated when I don't understand things.  For example, if I'm in a traffic jam and there seems to be no reason for it, I get ragey.  If, on the other hand, I can see obvious signs of construction ahead, I'm fine.  So I would really like to understand what they think they're writing Laurel towards, and what KC is trying to/thinks she's portraying.  The elevator scene is a GREAT example, because there is no reason, none whatsoever, for her to be so GD pissed off. 

 

Maybe Felicity pressed the button again after Oliver did? It was already pressed, god dammit. There was no need to press it again!

[apinknightmare]

I get really frustrated when I don't understand things. For example, if I'm in a traffic jam and there seems to be no reason for it, I get ragey. If, on the other hand, I can see obvious signs of construction ahead, I'm fine. So I would really like to understand what they think they're writing Laurel towards, and what KC is trying to/thinks she's portraying. The elevator scene is a GREAT example, because there is no reason, none whatsoever, for her to be so GD pissed off.

Maybe she had come to the realization that the thing Thea expected Felicity to be wearing was an engagement ring? Since Laurel asked a follow-up about it later, that's the only thing I can come up with.

[popgoesculture]

This episode made me laugh so many times... and not in a good way. the writing was SO BAD. Rutina Wesley's character made no sense: complete 180s over and over again without any real justification ("we don't kill cops" "you shot two last night" "they got in the way"... etc) and then the scene with Quentin made NO sense either. Her whole arc was so flawed. 

 

And the entire Lance drama? Watching the promo would've had the same effect. I learned nothing except that Laurel lacks common sense (you keep your sister tied up in your COMMON AREA basement??! What about the bathroom? Why no clothes? Why are you so creepy about trying to get your dad's approval?) which I already knew, and that it's a hereditary trait since Quentin suffers from it as well, considering his alliance with Darkh. 

 

Also my new drinking game is to take a sip every time Laurel crosses her arms in a scene. Needless to say, that helps my enjoyment of her scenes and one note response to anything tremendously. 

[bijoux]

Thea's face here is too cute :) (Also kinda terrifying, because if you don't know the context, it looks like she's about to slaughter those people in the elevator).

  

I jus went with cute when I watched it, but I love the picture you paint. Hee.

LMAO @ Laurel looking so pissed off/irritated there.

 

There? You say that like there is somewhere she doesn't looked pissed off.

  

But I noticed this in Season 1 - no matter how evil she is, Oliver never kills a woman (there's one in the underground casino I'm unsure of, though I suspect that was just a weird edit). There's always something in the way - Helena catches arrows, Chien Na Wei gets lucky when McKenna Hall turns up. And then, once he gets close enough to Chien Na Wei, it's season 2 and he's stopped killing. Not even Isabel Rochev, who gets killed twice - the first time by Felicity, the second by Nyssa.

 

He never even targeted a woman from the list. In fact, I think Moira may have been the only woman on the receiving end of "You have failed this city".

[dtissagirl]

I get really frustrated when I don't understand things.  For example, if I'm in a traffic jam and there seems to be no reason for it, I get ragey.  If, on the other hand, I can see obvious signs of construction ahead, I'm fine.  So I would really like to understand what they think they're writing Laurel towards, and what KC is trying to/thinks she's portraying.  The elevator scene is a GREAT example, because there is no reason, none whatsoever, for her to be so GD pissed off. 

 

The only thing I can maaaaybe think here is Laurel is annoyed that Oliver and Felicity are keeping her from her creepy basement dweller zombie/vampire sister. But mostly I just think KC has Involuntary NOTP Face re: Oliver/Felicity.

[AyChihuahua]

Maybe she had come to the realization that the thing Thea expected Felicity to be wearing was an engagement ring? Since Laurel asked a follow-up about it later, that's the only thing I can come up with.

So maybe she is jealous?  Is that a KC thing or an in-show thing?  I really thought they'd moved past that, and onto apathy/mild dislike.  And if she is jealous of O/F, that is kind of YET another strike against her being on the team.

The only thing I can maaaaybe think here is Laurel is annoyed that Oliver and Felicity are keeping her from her creepy basement dweller zombie/vampire sister. But mostly I just think KC has Involuntary NOTP Face re: Oliver/Felicity.

It was kind of a big obvious look, though.  She was center-frame in a well-lit elevator.  I am not sure I buy it was her usual quasi-involuntary look of disdain.

[Chaser]

Laurel's line about the ring invites speculation because it's so random. It was too long after the initial comment and there was too much going on in the lair to warrant a revisit. It really does look like she is asking for some random jealousy thing. Even the way she asked was like she was afriad of the answer.

 

Why write her like this?

[lexicon]

I choose to believe that just like LL's storylines, when it comes to KC's acting choices they don't even bother anymore. 

 

You wanna cross your arms and look pissed off for no reason? Ok

You wanna ballerina spin your way to the floor after being hit with a million volts of electricity? Ok

You wanna sigh softly as you close your eyes and lay gracefully on the floor? Ok

You wanna keep saying "Daddy" in a creepy voice? Ok

 

I mean, none of these are choices I would make or okay on a show I was in charge off but there ya go

Edited October 29, 2015 by lexicon

[Artsda]

Laurel is just a nutcase, living in a denial world of Sara will be back to herself in a couple days and then she'll tell Oliver. Now she's escaped, so you want to tell Oliver now then Laurel? Her cry and fighting is ridiculous too. She needs to just die and let us keep zombie Gollum like Sara.

 

That's a nice new liar but letting Lance into it after 4 minutes? Dumb Oliver. 

[looptab]

It would have made more sense for her to ask Thea "what did you think she was wearing?" But they had to show Felicity's cluelessness, so we had that.

And re:Thea,IDK, she gives also a kind of psycho vibe (but, as I said, too cute for words :) I'm loving Willa, too this season).

Edited October 29, 2015 by looptab

[Guest]

I didn't get any jealousy or anything from Laurel asking Felicity about what Thea thought she would be wearing. I think that was just used as a comedic type of moment, I guess, and to reiterate that Felicity has no idea but also that Laurel is clueless too. So Oliver only confided in Thea about proposing. 

[dtissagirl]

It would have made more sense for her to ask Thea "what did you think she was wearing?"

 

I think they wanted the audience to know Felicity is clueless that Oliver wants to wife her. Most likely because imo they want to psych! the audience into thinking Palmer coming back is gonna cause draaaaahma for O/F. And the only one who could've asked Felicity about it was Laurel. Thea and Dig either know, or are onto Oliver's plan because it's written on his forehead.

[BunsenBurner]

I get really frustrated when I don't understand things.  For example, if I'm in a traffic jam and there seems to be no reason for it, I get ragey.  If, on the other hand, I can see obvious signs of construction ahead, I'm fine.  So I would really like to understand what they think they're writing Laurel towards, and what KC is trying to/thinks she's portraying.  The elevator scene is a GREAT example, because there is no reason, none whatsoever, for her to be so GD pissed off.

Maybe she found out she's the one who is going to be in the grave.

[NumberCruncher]

Man, you guys analyze Laurel way more than I do. Four seasons in and I still don't know WTF the writers/EPs want me to think of her and I still don't care. Even in the basement scene I found myself focused on Quentin and Sara that I don't even remember what Laurel said. Were it not for the outrage I'm feeling over the whole Sara resurrection storyline, I doubt I would have even recalled half the scenes she was in.

Watching this episode did make me realize one thing...I'm over the fight scenes on this show, which is a sad statement from me because I used to marvel at them back in S1 & S2 and believed the show's stunts were Emmy-worthy. Part of me wonders if my feelings have to do with the fact that Stephen (who has proven he's more than proficient in doing his own stunt work) is being used less and other characters are being used more. I miss the old scenes of Oliver climbing buildings with his bare hands and leapfrogging over pipes along with carefully orchestrated sparring matches. Now I only get a collection of 2-second snippets of each character punching/kicking a bad dude in the dark. Heck, I'd even go for some good old-fashioned, completely unnecessary Roy parkouring because at least it would provide some LOLz, but now I just find myself yawning and wondering when we we'll get back to some dialogue.

The only redeeming parts to this episode were the Oliver/Quentin scenes--Stephen and Paul did some fantastic work, IMO--and the adorable cupcakes named Thea and Felicity. The rest was a complete snoozefest. I feel bad for David Ramsey though--I don't remember him uttering more than about 2 lines the entire episode which is a crime in my book because if there's one thing that last week's episode proved, it was that the show is always much better with more Diggle.

I'm looking forward to next week's episode though if only for the appearance of one very sarcastic, trench coat-wearing master of all things demonic.

Edited October 29, 2015 by NumberCruncher

[Chaser]

I think they wanted the audience to know Felicity is clueless that Oliver wants to wife her. Most likely because imo they want to psych! the audience into thinking Palmer coming back is gonna cause draaaaahma for O/F. And the only one who could've asked Felicity about it was Laurel. Thea and Dig either know, or are onto Oliver's plan because it's written on his forehead.

It would have played better if they had switched it. Felicity asking Laurel what Thea was talking about and Laurel saying she had no idea. Felicity then just shrugging it off. Because it was such a delayed question from Laurel, it looked like she had been thinking about since Thea mentioned it. And why woud she do that?

[AyChihuahua]

I didn't get any jealousy or anything from Laurel asking Felicity about what Thea thought she would be wearing. I think that was just used as a comedic type of moment, I guess, and to reiterate that Felicity has no idea but also that Laurel is clueless too. So Oliver only confided in Thea about proposing. 

I don't know that I got jealousy from that, but I definitely got it from the elevator.  Everyone else is all bouncy, even Digg, but Laurel glares over at O/F, crosses her arms, and glares forward.  Right before the doors close Felicity starts to look over at her, like maybe she felt the heat from Laurel's deathglare. 

I think I'm going to start head-canoning that vigilante-ing and her daddy being mad at her and Oliver being truly in love with Felicity are too much for Laurel and she's having a psychotic break, or at least a nervous breakdown.  Currently that is the only way any of her behavior or lack of facial expressions makes any sense to me.

[looptab]

I think they wanted the audience to know Felicity is clueless that Oliver wants to wife her. Most likely because imo they want to psych! the audience into thinking Palmer coming back is gonna cause draaaaahma for O/F. And the only one who could've asked Felicity about it was Laurel. Thea and Dig either know, or are onto Oliver's plan because it's written on his forehead.

Yeah, I posted before finishing the thought, and then I edited. ITA :)

[Guest]

I don't know that I got jealousy from that, but I definitely got it from the elevator.  Everyone else is all bouncy, even Digg, but Laurel glares over at O/F, crosses her arms, and glares forward.  Right before the doors close Felicity starts to look over at her, like maybe she felt the heat from Laurel's deathglare. 

I think I'm going to start head-canoning that vigilante-ing and her daddy being mad at her and Oliver being truly in love with Felicity are too much for Laurel and she's having a psychotic break, or at least a nervous breakdown.  Currently that is the only way any of her behavior or lack of facial expressions makes any sense to me.

 

Oh, the elevator thing. Yeah, I have no idea. Her body language didn't gel with everyone else around her or what was happening in the scene. Why would she be pissed off? Makes no sense. If she wanted to express that she was anxious to get back to Sara and this was wasting her time, she could have looked at her watch or tapped her feet or even asked how long this would take.

 

So that whole scene was all KC to me. 

Edited October 29, 2015 by Guest

[Chasity]

Watching this episode did make me realize one thing...I'm over the fight scenes on this show, which is a sad statement from me because I used to marvel at them back in S1 & S2 and believed the show's stunts were Emmy-worthy. Part of me wonders if my feelings have to do with the fact that Stephen (who has proven he's more than proficient in doing his own stunt work) is being used less and other characters are being used more. I miss the old scenes of Oliver climbing buildings with his bare hands and leapfrogging over pipes along with carefully orchestrated sparring matches. Now I only get a collection of 2-second snippets of each character punching/kicking a bad dude in the dark. Heck, I'd even go for some good old-fashioned, completely unnecessary Roy parkouring because at least it would provide some LOLz, but now I just find myself yawning and wondering when we we'll get back to some dialogue.

This is absolutely why I'm over the fight scenes. It just makes no sense to me that the best fighter on the team is just left standing around watching others fight. I also hate the way they have essentially reduced Oliver to being a damsel this season. The fact that Thea had to save him in 4x02 and now Lance in 4x04 is just ridiculous. We've seen Oliver take on about 10-20 guys on his own and come away victorious. The show needs to do better with this.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Chasity

[AyChihuahua]

He didn't just get beaten by one guy, either, he got beaten by one guy who wasn't, as far as we could tell, anything special.  I mean, Mirakuru Slade beat the crap out of all of TA but Oliver still came out looking pretty badass, because, you know, Mirakuru'd Deathstroke ain't no joke.  But now a random SWAT cop (just like Cupid) got the drop on him and would have severed his spine if not for Quentin's speechifying?  A random Batman villain who was about Thea's size beat him in 4.2?  At least have the whole no-name bad guy team beat him, instead of a solo no-name bad guy.

[lemotomato]

Oh, the elevator thing. Yeah, I have no idea. Her body language didn't gel with everyone else around her or what was happening in the scene. Why would she be pissed off? Makes no sense. If she wanted to express that she was anxious to get back to Sara and this was wasting her time, she could have looked at her watch or tapped her feet or even asked how long this would take.

 

So that whole scene was all KC to me. 

Yeah, I think that's just her face.

However, resting bitchy face may be an acceptable condition for most people, but not ACTORS. Has NO ONE told KC that she should stop looking pissed off in all her scenes even though her character has no reason to be?