Game Of Thrones In The Media

[Umbelina]

He was wrong.

Same goes for Olly. It’s one thing to tell a kid, “Listen, I know these assholes killed your parents, but I have more important reasons for helping them.” It’s another to say, “So, while you work through your anger issues, please continue to act as my most trusted servant.” That’s just dumb.

 

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/06/game-of-thrones-finale-recap-season-5-jon-snow?mbid=nl_061515_Daily&CNDID=29505557&spMailingID=7827615&spUserID=NTkwMzU5Mzc5NTAS1&spJobID=701966330&spReportId=NzAxOTY2MzMwS0VANITY FAIR's recap.

 

You know, the Internet spent all last week competing to see who could be more outraged about Stannis’s decision to burn Shireen at the stake. And clearly that decision did not turn out terribly well, especially if you conclude that the sellswords left with the horses because they were disgusted at the spectacle of a king murdering his daughter in a supremely misguided religious ceremony. (Funny, I wonder how many HBO subscribers made the same decision after last week’s episode.)

 

This is handy, Book vs Characters "where are we now" article. 

What We Can Expect from Game of Thrones Season 6

A handy guide to which characters are all caught up with the books.

by

    Joanna Robinson

 

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/06/game-of-thrones-season-6

Edited June 15, 2015 by Umbelina

[Pete Martell]

After two or three seasons of coherent and satisfying action,

 

That's being very generous to season 4...

Edited June 16, 2015 by Pete Martell

[Umbelina]

http://www.businessinsider.com/game-of-thrones-george-rr-martin-explains-cersei-scene-2015-6

 

Martin talks about the walk of shame.

 

But why did Cersei's hair need to be chopped off? And was it really necessary to have her walk naked through the streets of King's Landing?

Yes.

The scene is actually rooted in medieval French law and literature. Dr. Larissa Tracy writes of how a naked "walk of shame" was a normal punishment for adultery in France in place of torture and other forms of punishment.

"People didn't see the kings and their lords very often except when they passed by in their incredibly lavish items," continued Martin. “When you take all of that away from a Queen like Cersei, who, up till then has only been seen by her subjects as this incredibly beautiful woman attended by maids and protected by knights, it’s a way to strip her of all of the power that attends to her majesty.”

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/game-of-thrones-george-rr-martin-explains-cersei-scene-2015-6#ixzz3dBl7et4u

http://www.wired.com/2015/06/game-of-thrones-recap-s05-e10/

 

Wired, once again does the book vs show version of each story this episode.  Very nicely done as usual.

 

In the books: After her escape, Dany finds herself stranded in the Dothraki Sea (note: not an actual sea) with Drogon, who lets her fly around on his back but won’t take her back to Meereen. When she gets hungry enough, she decides to start sharing some of Drogon’s kills; when the Dothraki find her, she’s standing beside a massive black dragon and eating a horse with her bare hands.

 

Rather than the full force of the khalasar, however, it’s a much smaller party: Jhaqo, the khal who replaced Drogo and fifty of his 20,000 riders. Note that Dany really hates Jhaqo; After he proclaimed himself khal, one of his bloodriders took a girl named Eroeh from Dany, had her gang-raped and then killed her. Dany pledged to every god imaginable that “before I am done with them, Mago and Ko Jhaqo will plead for the mercy they showed Eroeh.” Think about it this way: If Daenerys had an Arya-style hit list, Jhaqo would be her Meryn Trant.

 

Wow, I'd totally forgotten that part!

Edited June 16, 2015 by Umbelina

[dizzyd]

KH is on Jimmy Kimmel tonight.  If he keeps at the 'JS is dead as a door nail dead' statement he's been asserting since last night's episode, I'm going to need a new TV tomorrow. 

[ParadoxLost]

KH is on Jimmy Kimmel tonight.  If he keeps at the 'JS is dead as a door nail dead' statement he's been asserting since last night's episode, I'm going to need a new TV tomorrow. 

 

Statements that Jon is dead don't bother me.  There are ways around that. Its Kit definitively saying that he is not back next season that has me convinced he's dead dead not just Princess Bride mostly dead.  I can't think of a time where an actor committed to lying for a year about his status.  And the producers can't lie to KH because they would have to be assured of his availability if they needed him for a future season.

 

Until I see otherwise, best case scenario is that they pull a South Park and make a CGI Jon Snow Whiter Walker using old clips of Kit's voice.

[Umbelina]

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-5-finale-jon-stannis-deaths-david-nutter-1201520137/

italics MINE. and Hmmmmmmmm

I just realized I should probably spoiler tag that one answer about Jon's death. Oh hell, I don't know if I should or not, but I'm doing it just in case because to me it seems that they just nearly confirmed that either a new actor will play the warg'ed or resurrected Jon or AA, or a CGI wolf or WW will./]

There’s been plenty of speculation online. So can you say emphatically that Jon Snow is dead?

I can say emphatically that Jon Snow is definitely dead. I keep hearing that phrase in my head, “Ding dong, the witch is dead.” After what you saw there, I think there’s no more clear picture whether he is dead or not.

Any chance he could be resurrected by Melisandre, who returned to Castle Black?

That’s not my concern. My concern was to take care of Jon Snow, and he’s now deader than dead.

There’s also speculation about whether Stannis is truly dead. We didn’t see Brienne deliver that final, fatal blow.

I think that was basically in the script. Dan and David felt it best not to be gratuitous with that. You really got a sense that Stannis had nothing else to live for. Brienne’s life-long mission had come to an end. It’s a situation in which Stannis was ready to die and prepared to die. It would have been gratuitous.

Mods, if I didn't need to spoiler tag it, feel free to remove those!

http://variety.com/2015/tv/awards/game-of-thrones-cersei-walk-shame-lena-headey-1201519622/

Another Lena Headly interview.

Is she concerned about what Jaime will think when he learns of her walk?

No. Her concern is her daughter. Jaime and Cersei’s relationship is damaged beyond repair. She doesn’t care what he thinks. There is love there for sure but it’s now severely warped.

This season has allowed you to explore many different facets of Cersei — was there anything you found surprising or unexpected about her evolution this year?

Not really surprising. She’s always been someone who holds onto what she wants to be the truth. Her ability to lie and live in denial is one of her greatest strengths and biggest weaknesses. Her belief in herself is so great, at least whilst her children live and breathe. We were always headed for this moment for her and now this is where it gets really interesting. This is where the unexpected begins. I think. I hope.

What do you most admire about Cersei, and what do you think is her biggest flaw?

Her survival skills. Her ability to navigate amongst men who don’t believe in her. Her devotion to her children. Her flaw is her inability to listen to the few who really do care about her. She doesn’t think she’s worth that investment.

[Avaleigh]

So...Jon Snow is dead but maybe Jon Targaryen is about to be born? 

 

If Jon is truly dead dead then I think I'll end up finding something in my eyes at some point during this reread of his chapters. 

[Danny Franks]

If Jon Snow was truly dead and gone, Kit Harington would have chopped his hair short, done a little dance of joy and signed on to shoot a movie or two during the summer. Last I saw, on Graham Norton a couple of weeks ago, he's still looking very much like Jon Snow, and I don't know of any movies he's currently signed on for (except the already filmed and sure to be amazing HBO tennis spoof with Andy Samberg).

[jjjmoss]

So...Jon Snow is dead but maybe Jon Targaryen is about to be born? 

 

If Jon is truly dead dead then I think I'll end up finding something in my eyes at some point during this reread of his chapters. 

Good thing for me that I don't find him interesting enough to ever reread his chapters. 

Now if D&D killed Sansa, yes. I already figure that the others in my trinity - Arya, Cersei - are toast sooner or later.

[Umbelina]

Kit did cut his hair.

 

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/game-of-thrones-brienne-season-5-finale-interview/

To answer the question of whether Stannis is really dead, Gwendoline Christie Discusses Brienne’s Big Move on ‘Game of Thrones’.  Yes, she killed him.
 

Q.

In your fantasies, what’s Brienne’s next step?
A.

There are two things. One, is that there’s all of Stannis’s army there without a leader now, and they’ve actually become disillusioned by him due to his action toward his daughter. It would be fantastic if perhaps Brienne decided she would be best served as a leader and led the army. Or let’s not forget that she has Valyrian steel.

 

Wasn't Stannis' army just slaughtered?

 

Art's beat recap:  http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/game-of-thrones-season-5-finale-jon-snow/
 

From the beginning, Jon had the stink of destiny. Even when things were good at Winterfell he was the odd man out — a born outsider with a noble soul, wearing his bastardhood like a sullen sweater and choosing a life of service at the Wall. If nothing else, he was an underdog with good hair, and that usually turns out O.K.

 

Even the endless reminders about his know-nothingness pointed toward great things. Once he figured it all out, it seemed, Jon Snow would be a world-beater — or a world-saver, perhaps. The sort of guy, at any rate, that no one would be surprised to see on top at the end of this thing.

 

But as it turns out, we knew nothing. The show used our expectations about chosen outsiders and underdogs against us.

More to the point, we made the same mistakes he did. We fixated on the big stories — Who will ride the dragons? Who will win the Iron Throne? When will winter get here? — while overlooking the messy details, the people seething underneath.

 

[ParadoxLost]

If Jon Snow was truly dead and gone, Kit Harington would have chopped his hair short

 

I hate to tell you this but I googled it and he got a haircut 10 days ago.

 

 

We fixated on the big stories — Who will ride the dragons? Who will win the Iron Throne? When will winter get here? — while overlooking the messy details, the people seething underneath.

 

Well yeah, I'm interested in the former.  In the latter, not so much.  Now that all we have left is the latter?  We'll see if my interest in the show holds.

Edited June 16, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[Pete Martell]

Brienne’s life-long mission had come to an end.

 

Lifelong? Wasn't it like two years?

Edited June 16, 2015 by Pete Martell

[nksarmi]

I am in the middle now - I think Kit is gone, but Jon might live on.  I don't think they will have him warg because they have seriously down played that on the show.  But I'm ok if he is physically transformed into AA when he is reborn.  I don't like it - not at all.  But if I have to choose between having Jon dead and gone and his story didn't matter for any damn thing and having a different being with Jon's soul and Ghost at his side - I pick B. It's lame and almost soap opera, but I still pick B.

[ParadoxLost]

Lifelong? Wasn't it like two years?

 

Snerk.  I especially like his insistence that seeing Stannis' death and the battle would be gratuitous. So that is where they draw the line.  Completely dodged the question when some of what he didn't consider gratuitous was pointed out.

Edited June 16, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[Dev F]

To answer the question of whether Stannis is really dead, Gwendoline Christie Discusses Brienne’s Big Move on ‘Game of Thrones’.  Yes, she killed him.

 

But, then, she wouldn't know if that isn't the case, would she? With Kit, if he is coming back he at least has to lie, because he knows whether he's contracted for more seasons, but Gwendoline Christie would only know whether she's coming back next year, not whether Stephen Dillane is returning. If the script just ended with her swinging her sword, she wouldn't necessarily know any more than we do.

 

I still think it's most likely than not that Stannis is dead, but on rewatch I noted that the episode does a sudden cut from Brienne swinging her sword to Ramsay stabbing a guy so it sounds like you hear her deliver the killing blow, but you never actually do.

 

Wasn't Stannis' army just slaughtered?

 

I assume she was talking about the rest of Stannis army that deserted, and is now presumably wandering around the North somewhere.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Dev F

[ParadoxLost]

Kimmel was filmed before the finale aired so I we'll get nothing in terms of 'is he really dead'.

[Danny Franks]

I hate to tell you this but I googled it and he got a haircut 10 days ago.

 

He was reported to have got a haircut a few months ago as well, and then he turned up in public with it the same length as it always is. But I actually wish it was true, because as I've said, it will just further cement the show (and the books) as a lost cause for me, and free up Harington to get on with his career.

 

Having the reborn Jon played by a different actor would be fucking hilarious. The most hokey bit of fantasy cliché nonsense ever, and I would love it if that's what GRRM has been hiding under his silly cap, all these years. Readers and viewers alike would shit on it.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Danny Franks

[ParadoxLost]

He was reported to have got a haircut a few months ago as well, and then he turned up in public with it the same length as it always is.

 

It still looks pretty long on Kimmel and that was Wed.

[Pogojoco]

This is so ridiculous- but yeah, the hair thing is basically not a thing

 

http://www.hitfix.com/harpy/everyone-shut-up-about-kit-haringtons-non-existent-haircut

[Danny Franks]

This is so ridiculous- but yeah, the hair thing is basically not a thing

 

http://www.hitfix.com/harpy/everyone-shut-up-about-kit-haringtons-non-existent-haircut

 

When you think about it, Kit would have to be a bit of a dick to go around telling everyone, 'I can't cut my hair until I'm done with the show', and then shave it all off a week before the season finale airs. That'd be pretty funny too. If I were him, I'd buy a really convincing bald cap, and wear it out and about for an afternoon.

[ParadoxLost]

When you think about it, Kit would have to be a bit of a dick to go around telling everyone, 'I can't cut my hair until I'm done with the show', and then shave it all off a week before the season finale airs. That'd be pretty funny too. If I were him, I'd buy a really convincing bald cap, and wear it out and about for an afternoon.

 

This is going to end up like Fringe when fandom spent a Summer trying to figure out what was going to happen to Peter based on Joshua Jackson's hair.  If I recall in addition to the appearance at the con that year as an Observer, they messed with all of fandom all the way up to the actual event by denying that JJ was going. 

[bunnyblue]

This is so ridiculous- but yeah, the hair thing is basically not a thing

 

http://www.hitfix.com/harpy/everyone-shut-up-about-kit-haringtons-non-existent-haircut

 

So he got a trim in January, after the EW interview was conducted, and the trolling EW editor put in the "PS: he cut his hair shortly after this interview" knowing a) it would freak out the fandom and b) knowing the article would be published the night the season finale aired. KH's hair and beard still looked Jon Snow-like 2 weeks ago and 3 days ago for the filming of Kimmel. They can all suck my big toe for putting me through the ringer for a damn show. Hmph!

[InsertWordHere]

Vulture interview

 

At the end, they list the popular theories on how Jon will be resurrected. John Bradley (Sam) added his opinion on the likelihood of each theory. Despite doing their best, IMO, to debunk each one, they left the most probable one wide open.

 

2. Red priestess intervention. Thoros of Myr was able to resurrect Beric Dondarrion, so shouldn't Melisandre have similar abilities? And couldn't she use a win at this point? "If I was Melisandre's campaign adviser, her spin doctor, if I were in her ear advising her, I would say, 'You killed a child. Bring Jon Snow back, and you might get the people back on your side,'" Bradley said. "She's magic. She can do anything she wants." The problem is proximity, however, so Bradley judges this one as "impossible."

Yeah, impossible, right? Except Melisandre is at Castle Black right now and Jon's body is just chilling outside where his betrayers left it. I know John Bradley likely doesn't have much info, but still, they can't even debunk it properly. 

[Helena Dax]

Sorry, double post.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Helena Dax

[Helena Dax]

 

 

Any chance he could be resurrected by Melisandre, who returned to Castle Black? 

That’s not my concern. My concern was to take care of Jon Snow, and he’s now deader than dead.

 

This answer in the Variety interview seems interesting. I mean, we all agree he's dead, okay. The point now is if he's going to be resurrected. And that's when the answer becomes evasive.

[FemmyV]

 

With Kit, if he is coming back he at least has to lie, because he knows whether he's contracted for more seasons, but Gwendoline Christie would only know whether she's coming back next year, not whether Stephen Dillane is returning. If the script just ended with her swinging her sword, she wouldn't necessarily know any more than we do.

 

But you know what's amusing? Go to IMDB and catch the major cast members from an episode and see what their 2015/2016 itineraries are. Every major and most major-minor characters have anywhere from 1-4 projects lined up. KH? Gee, looks like he's going back-packing and falling off the face of the earth TFN. His credits wouldn't be so scrubbed w/out a good reason.

[WearyTraveler]

This answer in the Variety interview seems interesting. I mean, we all agree he's dead, okay. The point now is if he's going to be resurrected. And that's when the answer becomes evasive.

 

Ka-ching!!!

[Mya Stone]

I agree with Avaleigh. I think there has to be a VERY good reason for Jon Snow to refuse legitimization to become Jon Stark...because he will rise again as Jon Targaryen.

I'll take my tin foil hat and sit in the corner and dare everyone to prove me wrong. :p

[WearyTraveler]

I agree with Avaleigh. I think there has to be a VERY good reason for Jon Snow to refuse legitimization to become Jon Stark...because he will rise again as Jon Targaryen.

I'll take my tin foil hat and sit in the corner and dare everyone to prove me wrong. :p

 

Make room for me, please! 

[Mya Stone]

I just think they're having a grand old time playing up the JON SNOW IS DEAD angle.

"Jon Snow is dead, we killed Jon Snow. Jon Snow? Nope. He's stabbed like a ke-bob. Jon Snow is dead, we made sure to show you - WE KILLED JON SNOW."

We get it. You killed the boy. Now let the man rise. ;)

[Elkins]

This just reminds me so very much of all of the statements everyone involved with Battlestar Galactica gave to the press after they'd "killed off for realz" Starbuck. She was never coming back to the show, you guys. Really!

[Matt K]

This just reminds me so very much of all of the statements everyone involved with Battlestar Galactica gave to the press after they'd "killed off for realz" Starbuck. She was never coming back to the show, you guys. Really!

To be fair, that big twist led to all kinds of awful so not something I'd want them to follow.  

[Umbelina]

How Game of Thrones fell apart — and how it can be great again

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/16/8790189/game-of-thrones-series-reset

 

Jen Trolio: Alas, Todd, my status as a non-reader (of A Song of Ice and Fire; not, like, all books ever, your assumptions of illiteracy be damned) wasn't enough to endear me to the way this season finale was structured as a veritable cliffhanger parade.

 

"Mother's Mercy" certainly contained plenty of Big Moments™ — some of which were more skillfully executed, gruesome, compelling, and/or shocking than others — but overall, the episode largely felt like showrunners D. B. Weiss and David Benioff were trying to make as much progress as possible on their plot development to-do list as they prepare for season six. Major character deaths notwithstanding, I ultimately came away thinking about how the hour really served to emphasize what a mess season five's pacing has been.

 

For instance, while I enjoyed Myrcella and Jaime's heart-to-heart about the nature of love and the truth concerning her parentage, their exit from Dorne and her untimely demise could've easily been wrapped up a few episodes ago, allowing the show to focus on the season's weightier plots. Instead, it spent far too long dilly-dallying in the sunny southern locale, wasting precious time on Ellaria's unquenchable thirst for revenge and the Sand Snakes' eternal angst.

 

Game of Thrones' incredibly grim finale actually made me hopeful for the future

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/15/8783041/game-of-thrones-season-5-finale-hopeful

 

As a coherent hour of television, however, "Mother's Mercy" leaves much to be desired. Last week, I wrote that Game of Thrones' signature "moment" storytelling has started to wear thin for me, and this episode pursued that strategy to its utmost. In fact, it went so far that it almost became like self-satire. It left me thinking that the series is probably going to veer away from this approach in the future, because there's really nowhere else to go with Big Moments standing in for genuine story.

Weirdly, however, "Mother's Mercy" served as a pretty faithful adaptation of the fourth and fifth books in George R. R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series, A Feast for Crows and A Dance With Dragons (as Andrew has pointed out). My general sense at the end of both novels was that Martin was doing his damnedest to leave as many things up in the air as he possibly could. In fact, readers are still seeking resolution to open cliffhangers from A Feast for Crows, and that book was published in 2005.

 

Taken as a whole, A Feast for Crows and A Dance With Dragons (and now the TV seasons that have depicted them on screen) have what we might call "second-act problems." Martin conceived of The Song of Ice and Fire as a trilogy, initially, and much of what happened in the first three novels was originally intended to make up "book one" of that trilogy. Obviously, things have ballooned from there, but those first three books exude a very strong sense of being the first and early second acts of the overall story. The hero (or heroes, in this case) plunges into the middle of an adventure, then realizes that adventure is right there, teeth bared, ready to fight back. Great.

 

But beginnings are easy. Endings are also relatively easy. (Satisfying endings are hard, but we'll get to that in a couple of years.) Everybody knows what the start and end of a story looks like, including any child who's heard a few fairy tales. It's the middle where things get tricky, and it's in the middle where we find this particular tale.

 

 

What Game of Thrones changed from the books: season 5, episode 10

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/14/8780147/game-of-thrones-adaptation-jon-snow-dead

[Haleth]

I just think they're having a grand old time playing up the JON SNOW IS DEAD angle.

"Jon Snow is dead, we killed Jon Snow. Jon Snow? Nope. He's stabbed like a ke-bob. Jon Snow is dead, we made sure to show you - WE KILLED JON SNOW."

We get it. You killed the boy. Now let the man rise. ;)

Yeah, when Kit claims he is not coming back is he speaking as Kit or as Jon Snow?  Jon Snow is dead (did ya hear?), but Jon Targaryen is about to be born.

[Kromm]

This answer in the Variety interview seems interesting. I mean, we all agree he's dead, okay. The point now is if he's going to be resurrected. And that's when the answer becomes evasive.

Yeah, when Kit claims he is not coming back is he speaking as Kit or as Jon Snow?  Jon Snow is dead (did ya hear?), but Jon Targaryen is about to be born.

Well the actor said "I’m not coming back next season." Not "Jon", or "Jon Snow", but "I'm". Changing a character name doesn't cover that.

Meaning of course... the season AFTER, right? With a new name, without a new name, who knows?

At least that's what people want to hang on that kind of wording. Together with him saying "I'm dead", it seems to imply perhaps an off-screen revival, then the show biding it's time about bringing him back.

Or not. Or he's just dead. For good.

[nksarmi]

Well I also wan to know if "not coming back" means not coming back as a regular or not appearing on the show again, ever.  I honestly would expect some resolution to what happens to Jon's body even if he is dead, but I guess a body double can do that - maybe.

 

However, if Kit/Jon only appears in a handful more episodes total, that would really make him a guest star.  But then, I think I'm grasping at straws.  Either he is lying or I'm going to be disappointed.  Even it's Jon in a different body/actor, I will be a lot LESS disappointed than if he is dead and gone.  I'm still really concerned about season six though. 

 

I'm almost looking forward to the book again so I can get a clue as to how depressing season six will be.

[ParadoxLost]

This just reminds me so very much of all of the statements everyone involved with Battlestar Galactica gave to the press after they'd "killed off for realz" Starbuck. She was never coming back to the show, you guys. Really!

 

They walk a fine line if this is a lie because this isn't that much like BSG.

 

BSG lied to viewers and the cast and crew (and I still snicker when I think of RdM having to tell EJO the secret because he was that pissed off and when I watch the scene where EJO gets so into his grief over Kara's death that he breaks their expensive and on loan model ship during taping.)

 

But Starbuck was back within four episode and before the season ended.  GoT potentially drags this out for one to two seasons.

 

That Apollo and Adama and others grieved Kara and then got very cathartic reunions went a long way to smooth away the rough edges.  With this show, does any one entertain for a minute that 1) Arya or anyone close to Jon will find out he's dead before he is resurrected or 2) that a post death reunion of Starks will ever occur?  Its going to be like Jon reminiscing months/years later that Ned and Robb were killed and then doing his duty.  Or Bran getting thisclose and then going North to become a tree.

 

If ill will takes root amongst viewers, then the only thing GoT can likely pull off to smooth it over is making the resurrection epic.

 

I think Comic Con will tell the tale on whether they intend to drag this out, fess up, or find a way to be convincing.

Edited June 17, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[Danny Franks]

They walk a fine line if this is a lie because this isn't that much like BSG.

 

BSG lied to viewers and the cast and crew (and I still snicker when I think of RdM having to tell EJO the secret because he was that pissed off and when I watch the scene where EJO gets so into his grief over Kara's death that he breaks their expensive and on loan model ship during taping.)

 

But Starbuck was back within four episode and before the season ended.  GoT potentially drags this out for one to two seasons.

 

That Apollo and Adama and others grieved Kara and then got very cathartic reunions went a long way to smooth away the rough edges.  With this show, does any one entertain for a minute that 1) Arya or anyone close to Jon will find out he's dead before he is resurrected or 2) that a post death reunion of Starks will ever occur?  Its going to be like Jon reminiscing months/years later that Ned and Robb were killed and then doing his duty.  Or Bran getting thisclose and then going North to become a tree.

 

If ill will takes root amongst viewers, then the only thing GoT can likely pull off to smooth it over is making the resurrection epic.

 

I think Comic Con will tell the tale on whether they intend to drag this out, fess up, or find a way to be convincing.

 

That's a very interesting point. Starbuck's death was treated with reverence by the writers of BSG. The people who loved her got to grieve, deeply and fittingly. They witnessed her death, and the impact it had on them was very real.

 

As far as I can tell with Jon, the only people impacted by his death are the viewers. No one on the show knows or cares (at least, if the framing of it fits the descriptions I've read). So again, what's the point? He lives and dies with no one knowing or caring? And people try to say this wouldn't be an utterly pointless waste of time if it was the case? Righty-o. One of my biggest pet peeves with scripted television is when things happen to bring a reaction from the audience, and not to further the stories of the characters on the show.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Danny Franks

[Kromm]

Well I also wan to know if "not coming back" means not coming back as a regular or not appearing on the show again, ever.  I honestly would expect some resolution to what happens to Jon's body even if he is dead, but I guess a body double can do that - maybe.

 

However, if Kit/Jon only appears in a handful more episodes total, that would really make him a guest star.  But then, I think I'm grasping at straws.  Either he is lying or I'm going to be disappointed.  Even it's Jon in a different body/actor, I will be a lot LESS disappointed than if he is dead and gone.  I'm still really concerned about season six though. 

 

I'm almost looking forward to the book again so I can get a clue as to how depressing season six will be.

There is no ambiguity to the phrase "I'm not coming back". None. "I'm" inherently means the person who is speaking, not some "alter ego", as some have tried to insist. And "not coming back" inherently means, well... "not coming back".

The only ambiguous part is the "next season". It opens the door for the statement to be invalidated at any point that is NOT definable as "next season".

[seamusk]

As far as I can tell with Jon, the only people impacted by his death are the viewers. No one on the show knows or cares (at least, if the framing of it fits the descriptions I've read). 

 

We haven't seen the on the show reaction to his death yet.

[feverfew]

After reading a boatload of reviews and think-pieces, including the disparaging NYT one, I think my favourite one yet is Andy Greenwald's on Grantland. He is an unsullied who has been very vocal about the things he didn't like on season five, but he was suprisingly not completely driven off by the finale. I think his assesment of the show in general has been fair, if somewhat harsh compared to my own, and I especially liked this:

 

 

Does this weird outpouring of optimism contradict the central tenet of Thrones — that the bad thing will always happen and, if it doesn’t, something worse likely will? Not necessarily. Getting stabbed to death by your brothers isn’t awesome, even if magic can somehow undo it. And, lest we forget, some truly awful things happened last night separate and apart from Jon. (Jaime’s time as an out-and-proud father was shorter than a shot clock.) I think it’s worth remembering that Game of Thrones succeeds as much for the way it celebrates genre tropes as the way it gleefully murders them. Giving a beloved hero a fake or temporary death may not be Sophocles, but it sure as hell is Spock.

 

More important than that, it sure as hell is TV. There’s nothing more familiar to contemporary viewers than a stunning cliffhanger at the end of a season, and this was a doozy. So much of this year was devoted to debates about the myriad things that happen offscreen on Game of Thrones, from chapters left out to sensibilities offended. Lost in all of this was the fact that when everything clicks, there’s simply nothing on the small screen as confoundingly, thrillingly big as Thrones. From Stannis and Shireen by the fireplace (I know, I know) to the slaughter at Hardhome, only Thrones can blow our minds and our hearts with such ridiculous consistency. In a perverse way, saving Jon at this point, after everything we just saw, is as radical a move as offing Ned was back in 2011. It’s precisely when we’ve been conditioned to zig that the show ought to zag. A brave TV show might cut off its prettiest nose to spite its face. But a smart and good one — which Thrones has been more often than not, even in the bumpy second half of Season 5 — would know better. A happy ending shouldn’t be expected. But a satisfying one is a different thing altogether.

 

Edited because linking is important when you quote someone

Edited June 17, 2015 by feverfew

[AshleyN]

Just in case anyone wanted to know what a last minute casting call for a male flasher looks like...

[ElizaD]

Comic-Con:

 

NBC late-night host Seth Meyers will moderate the Hall H presentation. Confirmed attendees include Thrones stars Alfie Allen (Theon/Reek), John Bradley (Samwell Tarly), Gwendoline Christie (Brienne of Tarth), Liam Cunningham (Ser Davos Seaworth), Natalie Dormer (Margaery Tyrell), Conleth Hill (Varys), Hannah Murray (Gilly), Sophie Turner (Sansa Stark), Carice van Houten (Melissandre) and Maisie Williams (Arya Stark).

From the behind the camera, there’s executive producer Carolyn Strauss and director David Nutter, who helmed the final two episodes of season 5.

Interestingly, the show’s primary creative talents are not attending: Thrones showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss are will not be at Comic-Con. The same goes for Thrones author George R.R. Martin, who has previously said he’s skipping Comic-Con to focus on writing his next novel, The Winds of Winter.

[WearyTraveler]

I haven't seen or followed GoT's ComiCon history.  Has Carice Van Houten been a guest before?  I find that interesting.

[Kromm]

That list sounds more interesting for who isn't there than who is.  Although Masie Williams would likely be at Comic-Con no matter what.

 

[penelope79]

KH will not attend Comic-con, which makes sense if Jon is dead for good and also makes sense if he is not.
But D&D and GRRM? Basically, no one who is in charge of writing the show will make an appearance (unless Carolyn Strausse also writes)... Now, this is weird but honestly not unexpected. If I were them and wanted to avoid any leaks, uncomfortable questions or needed to keep the secret about Jon, I would NOT attend Comic-Con.
In my opinion, if Jon was really done, at least one of them would've showed up. But the question about Melisandre reviving Jon will be asked for sure and while Carice Van Houten can answer something like: "Sorry, I didn't receive the script yet, no idea!", there is no way the authors can avoid answering that question. And from what I read so far, while they flat out said that "Jon SNOW is dead", they have yet to debunk the theory that Jon will be brought back to life.
I WANT TO BELIEVE!

 

EDIT: because present and past simple are not the same!

Edited June 25, 2015 by penelope79

[Lady S.]

I haven't seen or followed GoT's ComiCon history.  Has Carice Van Houten been a guest before?  I find that interesting.

No, she, Liam, Hannah Murray and Conleth Hill are newcomers this year. Conleth must have lost a bet or something, since only Stephen Dillane beats him for media elusiveness among the main cast.

KH will not attend Comic-con, which makes sense if Jon is dead for good and also makes sense if he is not.

Richard and Michelle were there after s3, and Rose Leslie and Pedro Pascal last year. I think it makes a lot less sense for Kit not to attend if he's dunzo for good. Edited June 23, 2015 by Lady S.

[WearyTraveler]

Jon Snow has cracked the top 10 in Slate's Virtual Graveyard.

 

The standings as of today are:

 

Ned                                        257,221
Rob                                        203,640
Oberyn                                  193,566
Khal Drogo                            162,905
Catelyn                                  160,390
Lady                                       150,048
Ygritte                                     137,862
Grey Wind                              127,484
Jon Snow                                108,877
Talisa                                         96,010

 

Go, Jon, go?

Edited June 23, 2015 by WearyTraveler

[AimingforYoko]

A spectacular and very witty AV Club Random Roles with the Queen of Thorns herself, Dame Diana Rigg.

When one reads the interview, one could come away with the conclusion that the Dame doesn't have to do a lot of acting on GoT. Oleanna seems pretty close to the mark.

[Kromm]

A spectacular and very witty AV Club Random Roles with the Queen of Thorns herself, Dame Diana Rigg.

When one reads the interview, one could come away with the conclusion that the Dame doesn't have to do a lot of acting on GoT. Oleanna seems pretty close to the mark.

Still waiting for the show to get on the stick and give Judi Dench, her GoT old lady role. She's expressed interest now.