Game Of Thrones In The Media

[Francie]

On 5/20/2019 at 10:31 AM, Minneapple said:

Friends and Game of Thrones are two completely different kettle of fish. Friends was a low-concept comedy, easy to syndicate, and a network show. It has done incredibly well in syndication, to the point where the stars are still making $20 million per year on the show. Game of Thrones is high-concept fantasy and it ain't being syndicated. 

I do think the end of GoT signals the end of the "watercooler show," where we all discuss each episode the day after it airs. It's the last "big" show. Maybe something else will come along, but most likely it will be a Netflix or Hulu or Disney streaming show where everything is viewed at a viewer's own pace so it won't be a shared experience.

This is just my experience. But Friends and Seinfeld and even Roseanne were shows I remember talking about with others.  

I have only 2 friends, one lives in another state and the other in another city, who watch Game of Thrones.  Over the last two months, I’ve only heard 1 person IRL who talked about Game of Thrones. And that was a conversation I overhead at a restaurant.  It was Mother’s Day, and a woman at lunch was explaining how awesome a certain character was to the rest of her brood. The target of her monologue was her 30-something brother. Even he had never seen the show. 

GoT is still niche television. It may dominant twitter. It may be all the talk of entertainment media. But the fact remains — if 20 million Americans watched the finale, that means 300+ million Americans didn’t. Compare that to the M*A*S*H finale. 105+ million Americans watched that. And our population was about 230 million at the time. That’s 1 out of 15 people for GoT and nearly 1 out of 2 for M*A*S*H. 

[catrice2]

18 minutes ago, Francie said:

This is just my experience. But Friends and Seinfeld and even Roseanne were shows I remember talking about with others.  

I have only 2 friends, one lives in another state and the other in another city, who watch Game of Thrones.  Over the last two months, I’ve only heard 1 person IRL who talked about Game of Thrones. And that was a conversation I overhead at a restaurant.  It was Mother’s Day, and a woman at lunch was explaining how awesome a certain character was to the rest of her brood. The target of her monologue was her 30-something brother. Even he had never seen the show. 

GoT is still niche television. It may dominant twitter. It may be all the talk of entertainment media. But the fact remains — if 20 million Americans watched the finale, that means 300+ million Americans didn’t. Compare that to the M*A*S*H finale. 105+ million Americans watched that. And our population was about 230 million at the time. That’s 1 out of 15 people for GoT and nearly 1 out of 2 for M*A*S*H. 

I know what you mean. I only started watching recently oddly because a friend from another country was listening to Raleigh Ritchie and asked me about Game of Thrones. I think i saw an episode years ago while visiting my sister at Christmas while her husband was watching.  

Outside of that,I really only knew about 3 people that watched the show, and none of them talked about it. I would see the references in the media or on other shows, but no one was talking about it at work the next day.  Maybe it depends on where you work...I don't know. but to your point people do get caught up in thinking that Twitter and Instagram reflects a larger segment of the population than it actually does. 

I actually do remember more people talking about Seinfeld, but again that could be because that show was on network television and not a subscription.  That in part is one of the reasons I never watched it, I had no desire to pay for HBO. 

[Minneapple]

33 minutes ago, Francie said:

GoT is still niche television. It may dominant twitter. It may be all the talk of entertainment media. But the fact remains — if 20 million Americans watched the finale, that means 300+ million Americans didn’t. Compare that to the M*A*S*H finale. 105+ million Americans watched that. And our population was about 230 million at the time. That’s 1 out of 15 people for GoT and nearly 1 out of 2 for M*A*S*H. 

Sure. But remember,  when MASH and Seinfeld and Friends ended, we had way fewer entertainment options. Plus those were all network shows. The Internet was still fairly new, there was no social media and video games were not what they are today.

Several people at my work watch GoT. We all talk about it. It's not the phenomenon that those old network shows were, but then, nothing ever will be again. In this age of fractured media viewership and attention, GoT came close. Only the NFL draws the big-time numbers anymore (if you ever wonder why the NFL is so powerful, take a look at the list of the highest-rated TV broadcasts in the US). 

Edited May 22, 2019 by Minneapple

[BitterApple]

I don't know if you guys have seen this, but it's funny. "Full House Lannister" on Jimmy Kimmel:

https://youtu.be/1kvxcV3F3jU

[MrsR]

45 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

That’s 1 out of 15 people for GoT and nearly 1 out of 2 for M*A*S*H. 

I'd like to see the world wide figures for GoT. It was shown in 170 countries. It's the first global blockbuster TV show. 

[Soup333]

1 hour ago, QuinnM said:

The fans are criticizing the work product of the BTS people.  So many of them probably feel their hard work is being denigrated.  There is a petition saying we don’t like this and demand that you do it over.  Not sure how anyone connected with the final product wouldn’t see that as a criticism of what they did, actors, BTS, everyone.

So 1.4 million people don’t like what you did.  They are kind of saying it was just the writing.  The rest of you were great.  The fact that your resume now has a poorly rated episode shouldn’t affect how your next boss views your resume.  Tell them we didn’t mean you.  I’m sure it won’t impact you in any way.  When in fact it will affect them and will impact their ability to get the next job and the rate they get paid.  So thanks 1.4 million people cuz we understand that you are just venting.  All our hard work means nothing to you.

How is the argument both the petition is entitled whiny babies and it won’t amount to a damn thing, HBO/D&D won’t suffer any consequences at all AND the petition will hurt the actors in the future? 

[QuinnM]

6 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

How is the argument both the petition is entitled whiny babies and it won’t amount to a damn thing, HBO/D&D won’t suffer any consequences at all AND the petition will hurt the actors in the future? 

Because HBO/D&D have enough money that it won’t matter.  The BTS folks are paycheck to paycheck.  Everyone will have to hustle the next job in spite of the last show instead of getting the next job because of the last show.  Checked with a make up artist about that so yes it’s going to hurt the BTS more than HBO/D&D and GRRM.

So people that signed and/or people that support the petition should be honest about the fact that it protests the show and everyone connected with it.  No one reads the small print anymore.  None of the news coverage says anything about ‘just the writers’.  They say the show.

 I don’t know where I said anything about entitled whiny babies unless you mean that is what you think.  

33 minutes ago, MrsR said:

I'd like to see the world wide figures for GoT. It was shown in 170 countries. It's the first global blockbuster TV show

I just read today that the numbers don’t include China yet because China delayed the showing due to the trade war.  What?

[MrsR]

2 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

 The BTS folks are paycheck to paycheck.  Everyone will have to hustle the next job in spite of the last show instead of getting the next job because of the last show.  Checked with a make up artist about that so yes it’s going to hurt the BTS more than HBO/D&D and GRRM.

They already have the next job. The prequel is shooting.

[GustavMahler]

I don't believe that the combined divisiveness of the series finale's of Lost and the Sopranos comes anywhere near what GOT has generated.... 

[Soup333]

29 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Because HBO/D&D have enough money that it won’t matter.  The BTS folks are paycheck to paycheck.  Everyone will have to hustle the next job in spite of the last show instead of getting the next job because of the last show.  Checked with a make up artist about that so yes it’s going to hurt the BTS more than HBO/D&D and GRRM.

So people that signed and/or people that support the petition should be honest about the fact that it protests the show and everyone connected with it.  No one reads the small print anymore.  None of the news coverage says anything about ‘just the writers’.  They say the show.

 I don’t know where I said anything about entitled whiny babies unless you mean that is what you think.  

I just read today that the numbers don’t include China yet because China delayed the showing due to the trade war.  What?

So a random boom operator won’t be able to get another gig because GoT is on the resume? Costume designer who won awards is now completely unemployable because of a petition?

I didn’t realize how fragile these jobs are. I imagine there are a LOT of blacklisted BTS people who worked on shows that only lasted a season. 

The petition is nothing more than people signifying their anger and disappointment. No one is going to lose a job over it, although Star Wars fans may be more wary than they were before. If any of the actors want to be angry or hurt by fans and critics who aren’t writhing in joy with this brilliance of the writing this season that is their right.  As it is the right of every person who had a problem with whatever aspect of the show to express their frustration. 

[spaceghostess]

31 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

So a random boom operator won’t be able to get another gig because GoT is on the resume? Costume designer who won awards is now completely unemployable because of a petition?

 

IKR? Of course they'll be employable--because the quality of their work over eight seasons speaks for itself and neither bad writing nor a petition complaining about bad writing will change that. My brother--a producer--can vouch for this. I guarantee he'd be more than happy to have GoT alumni on his crew.

Edited May 22, 2019 by spaceghostess

[Dame sans merci]

6 hours ago, MrsR said:

I'd like to see the world wide figures for GoT. It was shown in 170 countries. It's the first global blockbuster TV show. 

I was astonished to see that 3.2 million people watched the 2am simulcast here in the UK.

(And yes, I was one of those losers).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

9 hours ago, Francie said:

GoT is still niche television. It may dominant twitter. It may be all the talk of entertainment media. But the fact remains — if 20 million Americans watched the finale, that means 300+ million Americans didn’t. Compare that to the M*A*S*H finale. 105+ million Americans watched that. And our population was about 230 million at the time. That’s 1 out of 15 people for GoT and nearly 1 out of 2 for M*A*S*H. 

The number of people who tuned in to HBO to watch the finale and give those numbers for the official ratings is not the same as the number of people who actually watched the finale. Lots of bars have weekly watch parties. Lots of cheapass people who refuse to pay for HBO invite themselves over to the home of someone who has HBO every week. And there are a lot of people who watch illegally online whether it's through livestreams or downloads (S7 was pirated over a billion times in 2017 - the S7 finale was illegally streamed/downloaded over 120 million times within the first 72 hours).

Of all the people I know, there are only a handful who didn't watch the GoT finale, so whatever the official headcount is, the real life version is that everyone I knew was talking about it for the last six weeks. I can't say that for the Sopranos finale or even the Lost finale. The last time I remember everyone I know talking about a series finale was Seinfeld.

Viewership among people I know has definitely increased over the years, but even a few years ago (maybe S5 or S6), I remember I was waiting for my food at a taco truck and I overheard someone talking about the most recent episode. I very discreetly walked to the other side of the parking lot because you never know who is into spoilers or who has already read the book and I didn't want to accidentally overhear anything.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

13 hours ago, spaceghostess said:

I don't "blame" any actor or crew member for my issues with this season. My frustration lies in the fact that D&D were offered the time and resources to tell this story better and chose not to avail themselves of either. I'm satisfied to air my grievances about (or love of) shows on the forums and don't need to sign petitions about them. Having said that, GoT, like any television series or movie, is a commodity. It's a product the audience pays for; consumers are entitled to complain if they think they've been ripped off. I don't think that makes them jerks, nor do I feel comfortable applying the other meaning of "entitled" to people who choose to do this. Similarly, I don't judge clapback from actors or crew, who are equally entitled to defend their work and have the massive media presence to be as heard as they want to be. I look at all of this as an exercise in free speech. Remember when letter-writing campaigns were the only option? I do, because old.

Ha, I remember those super early online campaigns which were just a bunch of people in chat rooms talking about what item to MAIL to protest a show being canceled. Sometimes it was thematically appropriate but the practical part of me was still like, "But do you know how much it costs to mail a bottle of hot sauce?" Or when Angel was going to be canceled so people donated money to hire one of those truck with a giant billboard drive near the network offices!

But yeah, I get that people are frustrated/unhappy and they're allowed to be. I can't think of one series finale where everyone unanimously said, "Yes, that was totally satisfying and I wouldn't change a thing!" People get emotionally invested in characters they love and they want a proper send off, but most of the time the finale isn't going to satisfy 100% of the fans. Back in ye olden days before the internet, you just had to grouse about it with your friends (as in people you saw in person on a daily basis) unless you wanted to go to the trouble of writing a letter, finding the address for the network, and mailing it. Now it's as easy as going online and signing your name on a petition.

It can be cathartic to voice your opinion and commiserate with people who feel the same way. It's only been a few days so it all still feels fresh. I'm sure that it will all die down. People complain about stuff all the time and most of them know that realistically, their complaints aren't going to change anything. They just want to be heard. I mean, how many times have sports fans gotten up in arms over some choice that team management has made whether it's changing the jerseys, trading a player, or hiring/firing a manager? People get mad, they vent about it, and then life goes on.

9 hours ago, QuinnM said:

The fans are criticizing the work product of the BTS people.  So many of them probably feel their hard work is being denigrated.  There is a petition saying we don’t like this and demand that you do it over.  Not sure how anyone connected with the final product wouldn’t see that as a criticism of what they did, actors, BTS, everyone.

So 1.4 million people don’t like what you did.  They are kind of saying it was just the writing.  The rest of you were great.  The fact that your resume now has a poorly rated episode shouldn’t affect how your next boss views your resume.  Tell them we didn’t mean you.  I’m sure it won’t impact you in any way.  When in fact it will affect them and will impact their ability to get the next job and the rate they get paid.  So thanks 1.4 million people cuz we understand that you are just venting.  All our hard work means nothing to you.

7 hours ago, QuinnM said:

Because HBO/D&D have enough money that it won’t matter.  The BTS folks are paycheck to paycheck.  Everyone will have to hustle the next job in spite of the last show instead of getting the next job because of the last show.  Checked with a make up artist about that so yes it’s going to hurt the BTS more than HBO/D&D and GRRM.

So people that signed and/or people that support the petition should be honest about the fact that it protests the show and everyone connected with it.  No one reads the small print anymore.  None of the news coverage says anything about ‘just the writers’.  They say the show.

Viewers are complaining about the plot aka the writing. I haven't seen anyone protesting that the sets or the costumes or anything that the crew were actually responsible for were bad. I understand why the crew may take it a little personally because the show is a big family and no one wants to see their cousin or uncle get criticized, but I highly doubt that ANYONE on that crew is afraid that this petition will make them unemployable. I think they know that they can get hired for just about anything now that they have GoT on their resume because all of those other aspects of the show (VFX, scenery, props, etc) have always been praised for their attention to detail and accuracy. And no halfway decent employer or production company is going to say,"We're not going to hire this person because a bunch of angry fans signed an online petition." They know that hiring someone from this crew means getting someone who is good at their job.

[Minneapple]

42 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 I understand why the crew may take it a little personally because the show is a big family and no one wants to see their cousin or uncle get criticized, 

A "little" personally? If you have watched those behind the scenes videos, people put their blood, sweat and tears into the show. Not just the crew, but the actors too. And people just casually sign a petition that says "this sucks! Indulge my whims and redo it all!" Because the Internet. I would take it a lot personally, not just a little.

Mailing bottles of hot sauce because fans wanted more Roswell was a little different. They weren't demanding the show be redone, they were asking for the network to renew the show. 

In any case, I am excited to see the documentary next week. Should be a lot of fun.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Minneapple

[QuinnM]

So here is a recent interview with one of the HBO honchos, the programming president.

https://deadline.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-hbo-boss-finale-reaction-backlash-spinoff-sequel-plans-1202620302/

[Francie]

49 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

So here is a recent interview with one of the HBO honchos, the programming president.

https://deadline.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-hbo-boss-finale-reaction-backlash-spinoff-sequel-plans-1202620302/

HBO honcho [about D&D]: “They’re smart. They’re bright...”

Tyrion Lannister:  “Smart and bright mean the same thing.”

Deadline writer, quoting HBO honcho:  “I want to leave it as it’s own work of art.”

Stannis [under his breath]: “Its.”

[Jack Shaftoe]

18 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Sophie Turner has called the petition disrespectful.

Jacob Anderson calls it rude

Kit Harington slams the critics

And in response to the actors, you see people saying stuff on twitter like "oh, we don't mean to slam the acting! It was really good! It was just everything else we hated!" Yeah, like that's going to fly with the actors. Others are slamming the actors or claiming that they're paid to shill for D&D.

Dammit, people. Back in my day we just read fanfic. 

I hope it's just ill-advised PR talk on the part of the actors (no actor should badmouth producers and writers if they can avoid it) because the alternative is that they really are dumb enough to think that if someone put a lot of work into something it can't possibly be seen by many as terrible. Yes, an awful lot of fans are behaving in an embarrassingly dumb fashion. Pretty much every show which goes beyond its fifth season becomes an awful mess and yet many people are always so shocked. Still, it's such a cop out to say "well, they are ranting because they wanted to see X but what happened was Y". After all, if we use this kind of logic, no one would be allowed to complain about any story ever.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Jack Shaftoe

[Danny Franks]

I have been watching this entire season (and the last couple of seasons, really) from a distance because I was rather disenchanted with the writing of the show. I'm glad I only learned how it ends via spoilers, memes and gifs, because it makes it far easier to see the funny side of it all.

Regarding the actors calling the petition disrespectful, some people at the wonderful r/freefolk subreddit decided to make it clear they don't lay any blame at the feet of the actors and, in particular, Emilia Clarke, who they feel played Dany with far more conviction and heart than the writing warranted, in this last season.

They set up a Justgiving page to donate money to the charity Emilia set up, after suffering two brain aneurysms.

It's been up about twelve hours, and already raised almost three thousand dollars.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Danny Franks

[Soup333]

6 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

I have been watching this entire season (and the last couple of seasons, really) from a distance because I was rather disenchanted with the writing of the show. I'm glad I only learned how it ends via spoilers, memes and gifs, because it makes it far easier to see the funny side of it all.

Regarding the actors calling the petition disrespectful, some people at the wonderful r/freefolk subreddit decided to make it clear they don't lay any blame at the feet of the actors and, in particular, Emilia Clarke, who they feel played Dany with far more conviction and heart than the writing warranted, in this last season.

They set up a Justgiving page to donate money to the charity Emilia set up, after suffering two brain aneurysms.

It's been up about twelve hours, and already raised almost three thousand dollars.

Thanks for this link. I’m already giving my HBO money to her charity from now on. They certainly won’t be getting any more money from me. 

[Soup333]

1 hour ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

I hope it's just ill-advised PR talk on the part of the actors (no actor should badmouth producers and writers if they can avoid it) because the alternative is that they really are dumb enough to think that if someone put a lot of work into something it can't possibly be seen by many as terrible. Yes, an awful lot of fans are behaving in an embarrassingly dumb fashion. Pretty much every show which goes beyond its fifth season becomes an awful mess and yet many people are always so shocked. Still, it's such a cop out to say "well, they are ranting because they wanted to see X but what happened was Y". After all, if we use this kind of logic, no one would be allowed to complain about any story ever.

Good point. It’s almost as if critics and fans are just never allowed to say anything negative because then it’s assumed it’s all sour grapes. Oh, the whiny babies didn’t get the ending they wanted, even though fans have been complaining about the writing for seasons now. It just ramped up at the end when it all seemed (to many) to fall off the rails. 

HBO’s execs have to say what they have to say. They’re certainly not going to throw anyone under the bus even if the outcry is having an impact on them or they perceive that it will have one in the future.

I feel that the actors should handle it with more grace (and silence) than anything else. It’s their right to speak out but I think it’d behoove them to just let it all pass without much comment. 

[Minneapple]

8 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Regarding the actors calling the petition disrespectful, some people at the wonderful r/freefolk subreddit decided to make it clear they don't lay any blame at the feet of the actors and, in particular, Emilia Clarke, who they feel played Dany with far more conviction and heart than the writing warranted, in this last season.

They set up a Justgiving page to donate money to the charity Emilia set up, after suffering two brain aneurysms.

I read that thread at Freefolk, and while it's nice that they set up the charity drive, the subreddit is overall disgusting. 

Also, it's pretty condescending to the actors to tell them, "Oh, no, we don't blame you! We feel bad for you guys!" 

[Danny Franks]

9 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I read that thread at Freefolk, and while it's nice that they set up the charity drive, the subreddit is overall disgusting. 

Also, it's pretty condescending to the actors to tell them, "Oh, no, we don't blame you! We feel bad for you guys!" 

How is it disgusting? They don't tolerate racism, sexism, homophobia or any other bigoted behaviour. They never attack the actors, they praise people they think deserve praise, and are openly critical of those they think deserve criticism. The consensus there is that D&D made a godawful mess, and they aren't shy about saying it.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Danny Franks

[Jack Shaftoe]

4 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I read that thread at Freefolk, and while it's nice that they set up the charity drive, the subreddit is overall disgusting. 

Also, it's pretty condescending to the actors to tell them, "Oh, no, we don't blame you! We feel bad for you guys!" 

What's so condescending about that?

If you ask me, some of the actors are being condescending with their "you wanted another ending, there can't possibly be any other reason to dislike this masterpiece" nonsense.

[Constantinople]

17 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

I feel that the actors should handle it with more grace (and silence) than anything else. It’s their right to speak out but I think it’d behoove them to just let it all pass without much comment. 

They should take a page from Margaery Tyrell's book, who I imagine would say something like I'm sorry for any disappointment, but grateful that so many people care so strongly about Game of Thrones

[Umbelina]

This is 5 hours of detailing what was screwed up during the finale, and leading up to the finale, as well as touching on a few other recent seasons' screw ups popping up here and there.

One of the things they mention quite a bit is the long, long, silent walking scenes.  I have to agree with them there, dialogue has not been a priority.  Mauler hates The Long Night the most (and I agree with that for several reasons) but as they say, SO many questions left unanswered, yet they spent most of this episode in silence.

The fan service BS was especially annoying, no one cares about Edmure, and the endlessly moving chairs around while the clock was ticking.  "God" as king.  Dorne and the Iron Islands not immediately saying they were independent now too. 

So, basically, they thought the ending completely sucked, but ending WINTER in one night was probably the most annoying and ridiculous contrivance ever (and the bizarre and nonsensical battle plans.)

There is apparently something out there saying the wolf scene may have been from a previous episode, and obviously, after the battle the wolf had only lost part of an ear, in the last scene, the entire ear is gone. 

Anyway, beyond thumbs down on this episode, and that has almost nothing to do with Dany, much more to do with all of the threads left dangling, all of the set ups not paid off, and so much time wasted on nothing scenes, the ridiculousness of Tyrion finding perfect Cersei under a few bricks...

[QuinnM]

15 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

They never attack the actors, they praise people they think deserve praise, and are openly critical of those they think deserve criticism.

They constantly trash the actors.  The meme are sometimes funny and a lot of the time disgusting.  They trash the CGI folks.  I was late to that sub reddit but I took them off my list within two weeks.  Not due to spoilers but due to the way they trashed people.

[Minneapple]

7 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

. They never attack the actors,

Lol. Have you read the subreddit? They're straight up trashing Sophie and Isaac and anyone else for daring to call out the petition.

Also here is condescending:

The cast, the crew, everybody on that show, they ...

Should the actors be mollified? Maybe they should just shup up and deal, while the fans can say whatever they want.

[Umbelina]

4 hours ago, QuinnM said:

So here is a recent interview with one of the HBO honchos, the programming president.

https://deadline.com/2019/05/game-of-thrones-hbo-boss-finale-reaction-backlash-spinoff-sequel-plans-1202620302/

DEADLINE: Author George R.R. Martin recently said that three of the Game of Thrones offshoots, including the prequel pilot, are moving “nicely” at HBO. Can you tell us which the other two are?

BLOYS: Here is what I will tell you. I wanted to get through the final season and let that stand as a cultural moment. We have the pilot starting in June and then we will decide whether to want to do another one or not. I’m letting those things happen before we decide whether to do another one or not.

DEADLINE: Could there be more than one beyond the prequel starring Naomi Watts?

BLOYS: I doubt it, I don’t think so. I certainly do not want to overdo it. We have so many varied shows coming up in 2019 and ’20 and even into ’21. I think Game of Thrones is a fantastic property but I don’t want to just be the home of prequels and sequels and all that stuff. I think you want to be really careful about how you do it. That’s why we’ve been working on the Jane pilot for a long time, because we want to do it right. I think the last thing fans would want is something that was rushed out just to make it to air.

DEADLINE: I know you’d ruled out direct spinoffs from Game of Thrones in the past but there is a groundswell among fans for one with Arya Stark. Any chance you can revisit the no-spinoffs policy?

BLOYS: I understand where that comes from, I totally get it. But in terms of wanting to be careful not overdoing it or not killing the goose that lays the golden egg, Dan and David’s show as it stands in eight seasons, I want to leave it as it’s own work of art and not have shows directly, having Arya do that. I think it’s best to try the prequels in other areas of George’s massive universe — just feels like the right thing to do, let the show stand on its own.

[QuinnM]

36 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

I feel that the actors should handle it with more grace (and silence) than anything else. It’s their right to speak out but I think it’d behoove them to just let it all pass without much comment

The petition trashes 10 years of their lives but speaking out is something that they should just pass on?  Maybe everyone on the petition should have just let it all pass without comment?  

[Danny Franks]

5 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

They constantly trash the actors.  The meme are sometimes funny and a lot of the time disgusting.  They trash the CGI folks.  I was late to that sub reddit but I took them off my list within two weeks.  Not due to spoilers but due to the way they trashed people.

4 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Lol. Have you read the subreddit? They're straight up trashing Sophie and Isaac and anyone else for daring to call out the petition.

Also here is condescending:

The cast, the crew, everybody on that show, they ...

Should the actors be mollified? Maybe they should just shup up and deal, while the fans can say whatever they want.

No they don't. Read through those threads, and you'll see there is barely any "trashing" going on. Rather, most people are saying they get why Sophie is upset, but feel she's missed the point. Are there some people saying mean things? Of course. Over sixteen hundred people responded, and some will be unpleasant. There always are on Reddit, but that's what downvote buttons are for.

[Pete Martell]

30 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

Good point. It’s almost as if critics and fans are just never allowed to say anything negative because then it’s assumed it’s all sour grapes. Oh, the whiny babies didn’t get the ending they wanted, even though fans have been complaining about the writing for seasons now. It just ramped up at the end when it all seemed (to many) to fall off the rails. 

HBO’s execs have to say what they have to say. They’re certainly not going to throw anyone under the bus even if the outcry is having an impact on them or they perceive that it will have one in the future.

I feel that the actors should handle it with more grace (and silence) than anything else. It’s their right to speak out but I think it’d behoove them to just let it all pass without much comment. 

I don't blame the actors for being unhappy, as they've worked so hard and grew up with the show. If I did that, then complaints about water bottles and Starbucks would cheese me off as well.

With that said, I feel like this is a longstanding issue with criticism from fans. I remember how personally they seemed to take the criticism of the episode where Ramsay raped Sansa, and how the DVD commentary for that episode ended up turning into about how unfair it was that the writer was criticized, and so on, instead of addressing how toxic and misogynist the idea of rape = empowerment is.

I've seen finales for big shows torn to pieces by fans, shows like Lost and Seinfeld and How I Met Your Mother. Rarely have I seen so much pushback (to the point of endless, endless Twitter outrage and policing over the petition). I get the feeling that Game of Thrones was seen as some kind of experience you weren't supposed to be critical of, on some kind of hallowed ground. If that really is how many felt, then it helps explain why the last 5 years of the show have felt so tone deaf.

[Jack Shaftoe]

18 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Also here is condescending:

The cast, the crew, everybody on that show, they ...

Still don't see what's condescending about that. Of course someone who has become a star thanks to a show is far less likely to criticize it than some guy who merely watched it. This is a fact, not condescension.

Quote

Should the actors be mollified? Maybe they should just shup up and deal, while the fans can say whatever they want.

They can say whatever they want but if they say something stupid people are going to critisize them for it.

Quote

The petition trashes 10 years of their lives but speaking out is something that they should just pass on?

They can comment as much as they want but strawmanning disgruntled fans as "you just wanted another ending, shut up" isn't going to win them any new fans, that's for sure. If they had said something along the lines of "Everyone has the right to express their opinion but you can't help but feel bad when people thrash something you have worked on for so long" nobody was going to bash them (except for a few idiots bound to bash celebrities for anything and everything).

Edited May 22, 2019 by Jack Shaftoe

[Soup333]

21 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

The petition trashes 10 years of their lives but speaking out is something that they should just pass on?  Maybe everyone on the petition should have just let it all pass without comment?  

The petition doesn’t trash ten years of anyone’s life. That’s hyperbolic at the least. It specifically addresses the writing. And disgruntled fans have nothing to lose whereas the actors could lose support if they come off as condescending.

14 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

They can say whatever they want but if they say something stupid people are going to critisize them for it.

They can comment as much as they want but strawmanning disgruntled fans as "you just wanted another ending, shut up" isn't going to win them any new fans, that's for sure. If they had said something along the lines of "Everyone has the right to express their opinion but you can't help but feel bad when people thrash something you have worked on for so long" nobody was going to bash them (except for a few idiots bound to bash celebrities for anything and everything).

Yes. I don’t even want to read what Kit said because I don’t want to think badly of him. 

[QuinnM]

3 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

Yes. I don’t even want to read what Kit said because I don’t want to think badly of him. 

Turns out the quote was from an interview done in April and was a bit out of context in that he followed up the remark with an explanation.

[QuinnM]

Quote

Yes. I don’t even want to read what Kit said because I don’t want to think badly of him. 

Here is the link.  I think you're safe reading it.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/deliacai/guys-that-kit-harington-quote-for-game-of-thrones-haters-to

[Umbelina]

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, Soup333 said:

The petition doesn’t trash ten years of anyone’s life. That’s hyperbolic at the least. It specifically addresses the writing. And disgruntled fans have nothing to lose whereas the actors could lose support if they come off as condescending.

Yes. I don’t even want to read what Kit said because I don’t want to think badly of him. 

Yeah, I'm all for everyone having the right to voice their opinions, but the actors are either in denial or misunderstanding what the fans are griping about. People aren't pissed because Jon and Dany didn't get their Disney wedding and Happily Ever After, people are upset at the the way the writers clumsily rushed through plot points to wrap things up.

I mean, come on. They need to do better than "Bran deserves the Throne because he has a good story." 

[Bryce Lynch]

17 hours ago, QuinnM said:

Because HBO/D&D have enough money that it won’t matter.  The BTS folks are paycheck to paycheck.  Everyone will have to hustle the next job in spite of the last show instead of getting the next job because of the last show.  Checked with a make up artist about that so yes it’s going to hurt the BTS more than HBO/D&D and GRRM.

So people that signed and/or people that support the petition should be honest about the fact that it protests the show and everyone connected with it.  No one reads the small print anymore.  None of the news coverage says anything about ‘just the writers’.  They say the show.

 I don’t know where I said anything about entitled whiny babies unless you mean that is what you think.  

I just read today that the numbers don’t include China yet because China delayed the showing due to the trade war.  What?

The petition I saw, that has over 1.4 million signatures, specifically calls out D&D calling them "woefully incompetent, and clearly places all the blame on them.  There is no "small print" and it makes no criticism of anyone except D&D.  

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Yeah, I'm all for everyone having the right to voice their opinions, but the actors are either in denial or misunderstanding what the fans are griping about. People aren't pissed because Jon and Dany didn't get their Disney wedding and Happily Ever After, people are upset at the the way the writers clumsily rushed through plot points to wrap things up.

I mean, come on. They need to do better than "Bran deserves the Throne because he has a good story." 

And Bran had a crappy story, because D&D had no clue how to write for him.   

I'd argue that of all the main, surviving characters stories, you could remove Bran's and take the least (by far) away from the show.   

The whole "best story" thing was absurd.  If stories were what mattered, why didn't Dany and Cersei tell their stories to the people and let them decide which one had the best story and make her Queen. 

When did any King or Queen ever rule in Westeros (or IRL) because they had the best story? 

Edited May 22, 2019 by Bryce Lynch

[Soup333]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Yeah, I'm all for everyone having the right to voice their opinions, but the actors are either in denial or misunderstanding what the fans are griping about. People aren't pissed because Jon and Dany didn't get their Disney wedding and Happily Ever After, people are upset at the the way the writers clumsily rushed through plot points to wrap things up.

I mean, come on. They need to do better than "Bran deserves the Throne because he has a good story." 

It’s interesting that Sophie and Kit (in the article posted) seem to equate hard work with positive reviews. As if because they worked hard as actors, critics owe them near perfect reviews and viewers should only express adoration. That’s not how anything works. 

At this point they’ve had years to make their peace with the final season. If Kit was truly pissed at Jon not being the one to kill the NK and he bitched to his wife about it for an entire week we’d never know.

In the grand scheme of things, the petition is a small number of fans. I wish they could look at the entire picture - the petition, the critics reviews, and the amount of fan outrage and see it for what it is. 

[Dame sans merci]

35 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

And Bran had a crappy story, because D&D had no clue how to write for him.   

I'd argue that of all the main, surviving characters stories, you could remove Bran's and take the least (by far) away from the show.   

The whole "best story" thing was absurd.  If stories were what mattered, why didn't Dany and Cersei tell their stories to the people and let them decide which one had the best story and make her Queen. 

When did any King or Queen ever rule in Westeros (or IRL) because they had the best story? 

I also feel like the show going with this contradicts GRRM's much talked about '...but what is Aragorn's tax policy?' idea that he wanted to explore in the books. Having the best story bears absolutely no resemblance to having the qualities and ideas to successfully rule.

[BitterApple]

ScreenRant's hilarious spoof of the S8 pitch meeting to HBO execs:

https://youtu.be/jAhKOV3nImQ

My favorite:

"Arya leaves to see what's west of Westeros"

"Can't Bran just tell her that?"

"Apparently not."

[Danny Franks]

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The petition I saw, that has over 1.4 million signatures, specifically calls out D&D calling them "woefully incompetent, and clearly places all the blame on them.  There is no "small print" and it makes no criticism of anyone except D&D.  

And the general feeling I've got from the people who have talked about the petition is that they don't even think D&D are terrible, talentless writers, but that they appear to have rushed the end of GoT because they had another gig lined up. HBO offered them more seasons, GRRM thought they needed more seasons, most of the actors were probably fine with another year or two working on the show. D&D said no. Because they wanted to write Star Wars, and also that (thankfully now cancelled) tone deaf nonsense that seemed set to glorify the Confederacy.

1 hour ago, Soup333 said:

It’s interesting that Sophie and Kit (in the article posted) seem to equate hard work with positive reviews. As if because they worked hard as actors, critics owe them near perfect reviews and viewers should only express adoration. That’s not how anything works. 

At this point they’ve had years to make their peace with the final season. If Kit was truly pissed at Jon not being the one to kill the NK and he bitched to his wife about it for an entire week we’d never know.

In the grand scheme of things, the petition is a small number of fans. I wish they could look at the entire picture - the petition, the critics reviews, and the amount of fan outrage and see it for what it is. 

If they do think that, then they're going to need to steel themselves considerably if they're to have long careers in Hollywood. But then, Kit has already been in a couple of movies that received little in the way of positive acclaim, and I'm sure he worked hard on them.

I think it's probably more like they've been conditioned to everyone thinking GoT was the best thing ever, and suddenly they're discovering that a vocal section of fans are vociferously unhappy with the final season. 

1 hour ago, Dame sans merci said:

I also feel like the show going with this contradicts GRRM's much talked about '...but what is Aragorn's tax policy?' idea that he wanted to explore in the books. Having the best story bears absolutely no resemblance to having the qualities and ideas to successfully rule.

I can fully believe that GRRM intends to devote a large section of his next book to Dany and Tyrion debating progressive taxation ideas, and drawing up plans to implement them. While still sitting in Meereen, of course.

But the point is sound. He wanted to look past the overarching, fantasy narrative tropes, and dig into the drama of the mundane. The show seems to have let most of that fall by the wayside, by simplifying characters and narratives in order to rush to the conclusion.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Danny Franks

[Minneapple]

1 hour ago, Soup333 said:

It’s interesting that Sophie and Kit (in the article posted) seem to equate hard work with positive reviews. As if because they worked hard as actors, critics owe them near perfect reviews and viewers should only express adoration. That’s not how anything works. 

Sophie in particular is talking about the petition to redo the season, not about bad reviews. She's been on the bad end of reviews before; remember everyone flocked to her about Sansa's rape. And Dark Phoenix will probably get worse reviews than GoT. Those every actor deals with. I doubt many actors deal with temper tantrums in the form of petitions demanding their work be redone.

I see the guy who started the petition has put up a tl;dr disclaimer, apparently saying he didn't really mean that he wanted the season redone.

[QuinnM]

21 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I see the guy who started the petition has put up a tl;dr disclaimer, apparently saying he didn't really mean that he wanted the season redone.

So he meant a different thing when he wrote ‘do over’?   I must say the fact that his manifesto was just fan fiction and 1.4 million people co-signed is amusing to me.

[Growsonwalls]

A couple things:

1) A few actors quite literally grew up with the show. Sophie Turner, Maisie Williams, Isaac Hempstead, were kids when the show started. I can see why criticisms their reactions to  criticism of them/the show/their characters would be less mature. Have you been around child actors? They work 10+ hours a day and breathe, eat, and sleep on the set. 

2) All of them made lots of money from HBO and this series. They're not going to say anything bad about their employer that made them rich and famous.

3) But if you read between the lines of some of the interviews you can sense that it wasn't an ending anyone was all that happy with. Emilia Clarke said it "fucked her up" knowing that it would be the "lasting image" someone got of Dany.

4) Lena Headey, Peter Dinklage, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, etc. were older when the show started and understandably more mature about fan reactions because they've been around in the business long enough to know how it works.

5) But overall I am really happy that the GoT cast (save Lena Headey and and Jerome Flynn) are a tight group and treasure their experience. Recently I saw an interview with Kim Cattrall about her SATC experiences. And I thought it was so sad that after a successful TV series and two movies, she and Sarah Jessica Parker can't be in the same room together and that Cattrall has no good memories of filming. I don't care whose fault it was or who was a diva and whatever. It's just sad that you devote so much of your life to something and are so bitter about that experience.

[Danny Franks]

So the Justgiving page for Emilia's charity is over $11,000 now. Not bad for a day's work.

[ElizaD]

An Oral History of Game of Thrones, As Told By the Soldiers, Wights, and Wildlings:

Lots of lovely little stories. My favorites:

Hodgen (Wildling Male Chieftain 23): There was one guy during Battle of the Bastards who was on Reddit. He was one of the Boltons — of course, it had to be a Bolton — and he spilled a lot of stuff. They narrowed it down and found out who it was. I never found out what happened to him. Actually, we never heard anything about him again.

Presley (Unsullied/Wight/Lannister General): The Unsullied — we call it the Dickless Army — we’re the only ones who know who’s who. We see each other so much that we know each other’s eyes. And if you get put into another character, the [Unsullied] guys will look at you like, “What are you doing, man? You’re betraying me!” When I was a Lannister, someone was going, “Shame! Shame! Shame!”

Presley (Unsullied/Wight/Lannister General): A lot of the guys have been on the show for the last eight, nine years. It’s really like a kick down low for them because they’ve been growing their beards and everything to do this. It’s their profession, and it’s over. Except for the fact that everyone just started getting called about the prequel and the costume fittings for Bloodmoon, the prequel to Game of Thrones.

[Bryce Lynch]

On 5/22/2019 at 7:43 AM, Minneapple said:

A "little" personally? If you have watched those behind the scenes videos, people put their blood, sweat and tears into the show. Not just the crew, but the actors too. And people just casually sign a petition that says "this sucks! Indulge my whims and redo it all!" Because the Internet. I would take it a lot personally, not just a little.

Mailing bottles of hot sauce because fans wanted more Roswell was a little different. They weren't demanding the show be redone, they were asking for the network to renew the show. 

In any case, I am excited to see the documentary next week. Should be a lot of fun.

But the criticism has been focused strictly on D&D.  Plus, (while it will never happen) if Season 8 was redone, it would mean another season of work for most of the BTS people, perhaps more if they decided to keep going, instead of ending it with Season 8.