S05.E01: The Grimm Identity

[possibilities]

Diana was on the helicopter. But I can't remember if we saw her after that.

[Reo]

Babies do come fast, sometimes.  I worked in a hospital once - I remember the woman who had a child in the elevator going up to maternity.  When the doc roped into helping (because he was in the elevator, too) was trying to console her, he mentioned that a woman had had a baby on the front lawn last year.  She said, "I know.  That was me."

 

Don't have issues with Adelind for the most part.  She is what she is, and was never supposed to be a moral creature.  I can buy that spite has been her prime motivator as the type of wesen she is tends to be spiteful and entitled.  I can also buy that if she isn't wesen any more and there are no convenient corpses around to change that, that she is going to be less of an asshole.  A baby with no means of support other than leaching off men is going to make her clingy and needy.  The nasty conception aside, she's got her reasons to present a sweet exterior to Nick.  Probably not more than skin deep, but well, you know.

 

So, I am one of the suckers that buy this show on Prime - is it worth the investment this year?  I liked the first part of the Juliette becomes a hexenbiest arc a lot - and then the rest of it happened.  I don't think BT is the best actress on the planet but I don't think she's supremely awful, either.    I blame the writers for a lot of the incoherent mess everyone is in.

 

What I like in my fantasies is a set of rules that don't change with the wind.  You know, Superman can fly.  If we saw a show where he couldn't all of a sudden and getting his power back wasn't the focus of the story, I would complain.  I think Grimm is guilty of this - and more often than I want to think about. You don't change the rules without a damned good reason, and that reason needs to be a part of the story.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Reo

[TVSpectator]

I thought the screaming person locked in the basement was Trubel. I don't want Juliette to come back. I actually liked her character but I prefer when shows have real consequences for the characters' decisions. The group did know that messing with that spell was going to have consequences and Aunt Marie warned Nick that Juliette would be in danger if she stayed. I want them to be stuck with the consequences of their decisions and then have to deal with them. I don't like when writers do take backs. It's lame.

 

I never really thought that it could be Trubel, but I also imagined that it could be some kind of really pissed off Juliette locked in the cell. If it is Juliette, then I hope that the show would keep her locked up till at least the end of the season (IMO, the less of her the better). Personally, I don't get why they kidnapped Trubel in the first place. If they needed a Grimm, they could've informed her on what is going on; unless these Wessens are, so scared of Grimms, they would rather kidnapped and force them to work together. Although, I do wonder what is coming to Portland? Is it Wolverine/Sabertooth? Are these new Wessens that are closer to being dinosaurs than just animals (which most Wessens seem to take after), etc...?

[iMonrey]

I guess the good news is that this episode wasn't bogged down with a criminal of the week story so they were able to devote their full attention to the aftermath of last season's finale.

 

The bad news is it seemed to make what has always been a blurry mess even blurrier and messier. What is this "new group" that Chavez is part of? Isn't it just The Resistance?  Meissner was part of the Resistance. Don't tell me they've come up with some other faction when they've yet to explain the existing ones in four seasons. What is this coming war and who's fighting it and for what purpose? And why bring it to Portland?

 

I'm holding onto some hope that they're going to start explaining some of this crap, but for the life of me I have no confidence the show understands how little they've explained what they've already laid down. The Royals, the Resistance, what either of them want - it's all just a cryptic blur they've never spelled out. The last thing they need to do is double down on that crap.

[OtterMommy]

I thought Bree Turner and David Guintolli were excellent in their grief for Juliette. I hate the baby storyline. It sends the message that rape is ok if it results in a baby. Nick and Adalind have no chemistry but Adalind and Renaud have plenty.

 

Adalind's last speech in the episode have me seeing red:

 

"So, Nick, I tried to kill your aunt, raped your best friend, caused your girlfriend to go into a coma only to awaken with amnesia for you and raging desire for your boss, showed up with a kid who wrecked your house because...reasons, stole your girlfriends identity, raped you, stole your grimmness, turned your girlfriend into a FREAKIN' HEXENBIEST!, brought the royals down on you (and they killed your mother!), showed up pregnant with your child (supposedly) and demanded you protect me from your girlfriend.  But, hey, you have to like me know because I'm holding your baby who is the tangible proof of the worst things I've done to you."

 

"Uh, okay...."

 

I agree about the chemistry...there are different types of chemistry and, while Nick and Adalind had great conflict chemistry, I never saw the romantic chemistry at all between the two. 

 

Adalind and Meisner, however, is a different story....

Meisner is a good guy, right? So that implies that Chavez is one, too. How would Meisner not be able to tell her Nick's a Grimm, though?? Also, why didn't Nick call 911 for Chavez on HER phone? That would keep him out of the official channels pretty well.

 

Is Meisner a villain or a hero?  That is actually quite the question at this point.  I recently re-watched all of one of my favorite eps (2.16 - Nameless).  Normally I skip through all the Renard strategery of season 2, but I did catch the conversation he had with Sebastian where the debated whether or not they could trust Meisner...so...  

 

As for Meisner not telling Chavez about Nick...he has absolutely no known connection to Nick other than he dropped Adalind off with a woman in the Black Forest.  He (Meisner) did not know that the woman was Kelly Burkhart or that she had a son, Nick, who was a Grimm.

 

But, he's hot.  So, I'm all for having him here.  Hell, I would even be able to tolerate Adalind if those two hooked up...

How long til the Juliette is alive reveal?

 

The word on the street is by the end of ep 8.

Edited October 31, 2015 by OtterMommy

[spaulding]

Kelly deserves better than to be remembered as a head in a box. 

 

These new people are no different than the Royals, just substitute random new villains for another.

 

I think the new threat is the fifth group that the show has introduced. 

 

The writers need to stop with epic arcs.  They can't write them, and in the end, they become lazy and drop these world-building arcs when it gets too messy or too hard to write.

 

I want Juliette to stay dead dead dead dead dead dead. Is that too much to ask?

 

Nope, she needs to be dead dead.  This show could survive the permanent death of a minor character.

 

And if one more person said, "Juliette's DEAD?" I was going to throw something at the T.V.

 

That along with reiterating multiple times how they saw her get on the freaking helicopter.

 

The writers think that they're being coy by reiterating that Juliette is dead.  Then, they'll surprise everyone by the big reveal that she's not really dead.  The audience isn't fooled by shitty writing. 

 

Juliette will be brought back to create more dramatic tension between Nick, Juliette, and Adalind. 

 

Since a Big Bad is coming to Portland, Juliette is needed to stop the uprising.

 

I can't believe that this show is obsessed with a bland, limited character. 

 

I used to be in Aunt Mary's "Nick needs to be single" camp for the first two seasons, when he discovered he was a Grimm and was dealing with the consequences in his job and life. Now he lost his mother, he lost Juliette, he just had a son, there's a Weisen uprising on the way? Still in the same camp.

 

I agree.  Too much time is focused on Nick's shitty love life.  If Nick was single, he wouldn't necessarily be a dark, brooding loner.  He has a tight group of friends. 

 

Other than that, I don't like they way they tried to set up this whole new story, of course the FBI agent couldn't just tell Nick the story, even when they found all the bodies. No, we have to have vague clues that make no sense.

 

I couldn't stand Chavez because she was cryptic.  Why should Nick have trusted her when she helped kidnap Theresa and fill him in as they were entering a dark warehouse?

 

Find Theresa.  Start doing Grimm stuff.

 

Bud was the highlight of the episode. 

[TVSpectator]

The word on the street is by the end of ep 8.

 

Why show, why?

[TiffanyNichelle]

I'm only reading the forums to find out when it's safe to start watching again aka someone let me know when Adalind and that baby is gone.

[PepperMonkey]

I hate Adalind; I've always hated her, and I think, am pretty sure, in fact, that we were supposed to hate her. She drugged and raped Hank. She magicked and raped Nick, got pregnant with "his" love child. All the bad stuff that happened to Juliette after that - for all Juliette likers or lovers - was due to Adalind and her "hijinks." She killed and schemed and raped with abandon and now they are trying to have her want to co-parent with Nick? That is so far out of what she would WANT to do, based on how her character has behaved thus far, that it's ludicrous. I keep hoping she'll disappear and there might be some minor drama looking for her, but then Nick gets too busy to worry about his rape-baby so he says, meh, I'll send him to college when he shows up in 17 years. A girl can dream.

 

Juliette is so not dead. I knew they didn't have the guts to really kill her off, especially since she and DG are real life love interests. Which is a really gutless way to run your show, showrunners.

 

I don't know if I'm going to continue to watch or if I'm just going to come read the wonderful snark and comments here. At least the bad actress that was Chavez is dead. At least Nick's upset about Trubel's disappearance and his mom's head, although if I were him, I wouldn't care less about Juliette's body, especially since she's not dead. At this point, when I was watching last night, I thought, I wish they would just make this the Rosalee-Monroe-Wu-Hank show, featuring Bud, and get rid of everyone else.

 

At any rate, I'm calling it now that this is the last season for Grimm. Such potential, wasted.

Edited October 31, 2015 by PepperMonkey

[ottilie]

At some point they have to show what powers Kelly (a son) has. They have previously shown that zauberbiests can hybridize (Kelly is half, Diana is 3/4 witch) and express powers as children. Grimms develop powers after puberty. Females have stronger or different powers than males. Wesen don't hybridize, and a mixed parental couple will produce a child that goes to one side or the other. Adalind might not be trustworthy. I was surprised that Rosalee was positive towards her now.

  

Also, in previous episodes with Meisner and also Rosalee's cousin described the resistance as somehow involved in global politics and even though some weren't interested in this, I liked it because it seemed to add logic and purpose to what their motivation is.

  So it would be nice if they could somehow make the bad claw-scratch people connected to human politics, but I guess they could also just be satanic and want to randomly kill victims. Are they connected to the royals? After all - they suddenly appeared at Nick's house when his mother and Juliette were there, who both had some connections to the royals. Maybe there is a shapeshifter character who transfigured into Juliette's shape.

Edited October 31, 2015 by ottilie

[OtterMommy]

At least Nick's upset about Trubel's disappearance and his mom's head, although if I were him, I wouldn't care less about Juliette's body, especially since she's not dead. 

 

One thing about this episode that does deserve props--and I think they all go to DG--is that very small scene where he thinks he hears Juliette upstairs, almost has a breakdown, and then says something like "I can't do this now..." which clearly told me that he has some pent up grief coming for his mother and Juliette.  At this point, it is easier for him to concentrate Trubel because, in his eyes, she is the only one for whom all hope is not lost.  He needs a beacon to keep him going, and that is Trubel.

How this is all going to play out when Juliette comes back on the scene both intrigues and scares me.  It could be awesome...but the last time I said that about a plot development on this show was Juliette turning into a hexenbiest and that ended up being as far away from awesome as they could get.

 

So, here's my head scratch moment about this show.  Why did Chavez and company take Kelly's head?  I can understand Juliette, but what use would a quickly rotting head be?

 

I have two theories:

1 - They are holding Juliette in order to make her some sort of hexenbiest super soldier.  This still doesn't explain why they have Kelly's head

2 - They are holding Juliette to "cure" her and, who knows, maybe they used part of Kelly's head for that.  Gross, I know...but this show doesn't shy away from gross.

 

I don't know...I can't decide if I'm watching this show for enjoyment, watching it for eye candy (well, yes...I am watching it for that...), or just hate watching it at this point...

[Prevailing Wind]

I really want to believe it's not really Kelly's head & the not-dead-dead person is Mom Grimm, not Hexeniette.

 

 

At least the bad actress that was Chavez is dead.

I kept getting irritated at all those pouty faces she was making, pursing her lips - made her look sarcastic, not formidable.  (And I think we were supposed to assume "formidable.")  Juliette & Chavez can have a spoiled-brat-pout-off in the afterlife.  I'd pay good money to miss that.

[OtterMommy]

 

   Meisner is probably a good guy because we know that he threw Renard's unpleasant father from the airplane. (I guess the show wasn't concerned with who the new leadership for the Austro-Hungarian royalty is yet).

 

I also want to know why no one has reported an old fat guy falling from the sky.  Yes, there are "natural" areas in and around Portland, but none of them are what one would consider wilderness.  Seriously, people hike/run/whatever everywhere.  Someone has got to come across whatever is left of King whatshisname sometime.

 

What can I say, I get caught up in the details.  Sometimes it keeps me from seeing the big picture and, sometimes, that's the only way I can continue to watch this show.

[Starchild]

I was very disappointed in what they did with Juliette last year, not because I was especially enamoured of her (though I did like her), but because the extreme clumsiness of her character transition demonstrated the writers' lack of skill, and dedication to the craft. In fact, I'd venture to say that their shoddy treatment of the character elevated her to the level of my favourite ; I've always kind of gone for the underdog. What they did was a classic example of twisting a character to fit the plot, rather than letting plot be derived naturally from characters and their realistic interactions. I lost faith in these writers, along with the belief that they can tell a strong story that justifies my time investment. I feel that's a reasonable reaction after they dropped the zombie story point, demonstrating their deficiency of imagination, and what happens when they start something they can't finish.

 

So I'm not watching this season. However, I am following spoilers and reading forum comments to keep up with what's going on. If, at the end of the season, Juliette is still dead, is dead again, or is alive but still evil, I'll be gone for good. If, however, she is back, dehexified, I'll catch up over the summer and be back on board next year.

 

It's possible she could be back on the heroes' side and still a hexenbieste, but I think that would be a mistake. She's supposed to be so powerful that even powerful wesen are afraid of her, so that would give our team too much power, minimize the stakes and lessen the drama. The only way I think that could work is if the season ended with Juliette a good guy, but Nick a bad guy (because of course that's a trope that these writers won't be able to resist at some point), and they'll need her to reign him in without killing him. As long as she does it by losing her hexiness. If Adalind can trade it back and forth, why not Juliette?

 

Anyway, that's where I stand on all this. I won't be watching WITH you, but I WILL be watching YOU! :)

[henripootel]

I thought the screaming person locked in the basement was Trubel.

 

Yeah, remind me, how'd they just nab her?  She and Nick are fucking grimms, I'd think the usual ratio is one grimm, a dozen of anything.  And count on half them getting killed trying.  But no, they just grab Trubel and chloroform Nick like he's Daphne from Scooby Doo.  

[Happytobehere]

I'd settle for Juliette if it means the baby will be revealed not to be Nick and we get rid of Adelind. I never liked her character and the thought of having her shoved down our throats means I will likely be tuning out. As it was, I ff through all the Adalind and Nick and Adalind scenes. And once I start ff, it's just a matter of time before I stop watching.

[HunterHunted]

The writing on this show is so dog stupid that have little faith in this season. I know Juliette will somehow turn up alive. I'm not happy about it. I never felt like Nick needed to be single during earlier seasons, but I also thought that Bitsie didn't need to be part of the regular cast. It's the same way I was fine with Wu being background for most of the series. After the cat scratch, the show felt like they had to DO something with Juliette. They didn't. And one of the better aspects of the earlier seasons is that while Nick's work and Grimm lives were bonkers, his home life was normal. The one thing I'm fairly certain about this season is that it will probably be the show's last. This is when salaries start going up, the ratings were never great, and the writing is dismal.

[Darklazr]

Juliette should have died at the end of season one.  BT is/was horrible in the role and all of the blank stares made my eyes twitch.

 

My theory is the baby will end up being Nik's and Juliette's around the time that Adalind is finally given Diana to raise.

 

Renard is smoking hot!  Damn!

 

I could care less that DG is dating BT, Juliette sucked, period!

[Commando Cody]

I think the baby is going to be Nick and Juliette's. It got switched when they were doing the body swapping. 

 

I'm pretty sure Juliette isn't dead. No body no death. I think Theresa shot her just to knock her out. 

 

I think the screaming thing is Theresa. If it was Juliette, someone else would have done the screaming for her. I don't think she's a good enough actress to even do a convincing scream. 

 

My most prevalent thought was - If Juliette is still alive - fuck you, show. I'm out.

 

Juliette's character was a mistake from the very beginning.

 

I'm still not convinced that Kelly is dead either.  

[Snarkette]

The mere possibility that Juliette may come back is making my eyelid twitch. 

 

There are rules of Grimm. These are:

• Tell Wu, Kill Juliet, Exile Adalind
• No babies. Ever. 
• Lots of Bud. Lots and lots of Bud.
• Monroe and Rosalie must tell each other everything that matters
• Shirtless Reynard at every opportunity whether it serves the plot or not. 
• And a new rule: Make Reynard walk next to short cops every episode.

[OtterMommy]

 

The mere possibility that Juliette may come back is making my eyelid twitch. 

 

There are rules of Grimm. These are:

• Tell Wu, Kill Juliet, Exile Adalind
• No babies. Ever. 
• Lots of Bud. Lots and lots of Bud.
• Monroe and Rosalie must tell each other everything that matters
• Shirtless Reynard at every opportunity whether it serves the plot or not. 
• And a new rule: Make Reynard walk next to short cops every episode.

 

 

I disagree about Bud.  Bud is great, I love Bud, but one thing this show has done well consistently (heck, probably the only thing they've done well consistently) is not overuse Bud.  I think if he had much more Bud than we currently get, he'd become very tiresome.

[SimoneS]

I hate Adalind; I've always hated her, and I think, am pretty sure, in fact, that we were supposed to hate her. She drugged and raped Hank. She magicked and raped Nick, got pregnant with "his" love child. All the bad stuff that happened to Juliette after that - for all Juliette likers or lovers - was due to Adalind and her "hijinks." She killed and schemed and raped with abandon and now they are trying to have her want to co-parent with Nick? That is so far out of what she would WANT to do, based on how her character has behaved thus far, that it's ludicrous. I keep hoping she'll disappear and there might be some minor drama looking for her, but then Nick gets too busy to worry about his rape-baby so he says, meh, I'll send him to college when he shows up in 17 years. A girl can dream.

 

Juliette is so not dead. I knew they didn't have the guts to really kill her off, especially since she and DG are real life love interests. Which is a really gutless way to run your show, showrunners.

 

 

I had no idea that DG and Bitsy were involved, but honestly, I don't think that it would have mattered. This show has never lived up to its potential and mostly because the writers never had a vision for the show and they definitely have no backbone.. Renard was originally supposed to be a bad guy, but they like Sasha Roiz so they did a 180 with the character eliminating the tension that the show needed. They decided that they liked Claire Coffee so they made Analind a regular. So of course, they would not fire an actress who they liked. Juliette will show up later this season.

[TVSpectator]

I disagree about Bud.  Bud is great, I love Bud, but one thing this show has done well consistently (heck, probably the only thing they've done well consistently) is not overuse Bud.  I think if he had much more Bud than we currently get, he'd become very tiresome.

I agree that Bud shouldn't be overused, but we should use Monroe and Rosalie as much as possible, and please keep Renard's shirt off the entire time he is on screen. 

[kathyk24]

Kelly really is dead because the actress who played her is on Limitless. I believe Juliette is dead because I don't see how she can be redeemed, Burning down the trailer and killing Kelly are unforgivable acts. I hate what the writers are doing to Nick. He had little angst in Season one now he's filled with angst.

[ShadowFacts]

 

The last time we saw Diana, she was with Meissner and looked very happy about it.  So I guess either he still has her or maybe he gave her to Chavez's group if they're part of the Resistance.  It doesn't make sense, though, since as another poster already mentioned, the Resistance knows Nick is a Grimm, so Chavez should have had that information if she were a member.  WTF?  So confused.  Chavez and/or the Resistance not knowing about Trubel makes more sense but Nick, not so much.

 

I was also confused by the exposition speech by Wu about the Grimm book which he found on the bed but was later on the table or vice versa.  It was supposed to be showing us something about who knew Nick was a Grimm and when but I didn't get that, did anybody else?

 

 

I also want to know why no one has reported an old fat guy falling from the sky.  Yes, there are "natural" areas in and around Portland, but none of them are what one would consider wilderness.  Seriously, people hike/run/whatever everywhere.  Someone has got to come across whatever is left of King whatshisname sometime.

 

Were they over water at the time?  I thought I remembered that, but I could be wrong.  If they were, it could delay the body being found.

[OtterMommy]

Were they over water at the time?  I thought I remembered that, but I could be wrong.  If they were, it could delay the body being found.

 

I guess it is possible, but if they were going to a ship, they should have been flying from North Plains (where the rented mansion was) to either the Waterfront or up to the Columbia, so they shouldn't have been over water.

 

In any case, someone should notice soon that the king of whatever is missing....

Edited October 31, 2015 by OtterMommy

[TVSpectator]

I was also confused by the exposition speech by Wu about the Grimm book which he found on the bed but was later on the table or vice versa.  It was supposed to be showing us something about who knew Nick was a Grimm and when but I didn't get that, did anybody else?

 

 

Wu was referring to the time when that rogue FBI agent (who was a Wesen that was working for the Royals and I can't remember his name) came in and shot Renard at Nick and Juliette's house. Nick nor Juliette wasn't there, due to being at Rosalia and Monroe's wedding, and Renard found out what Adalind did and quickly made a potion and ran to Nick's house thinking that he was home. Renard was shot by that crooked FBI agent and tried to kill Trubel (who at the time was staying with Nick and Juliette). The FBI guy chased Trubel upstairs, to her bedroom, and Trubel was able to kill him. Trubel called 911 and then ran to tell Nick what Adalind did to him (which was tricking him with magic, making herself look like Juliette, sleeping with him, and thus taking his Grimm powers away). Later when the cops came, another FBI (named Chavez and I think this was the first time this character was introduced)  and saw the book laying out. From that book Chavez was able to guess that Trubel was a Grimm (because the book was about Wesen) and that the only way Trubel was able to kill him was because she was a Grimm. 

 

Wu also found the book in Trubel's bedroom and moved it out,  before Chavez was able to grab it for good. 

Edited October 31, 2015 by TVSpectator

[ShadowFacts]

So it wasn't about Nick being a Grimm, okay, thanks (great details).  Still, many in Portland knew who and what he was, it wasn't a secret, people were coming over bringing things to the door, etc.  I would think a savvy FBI agent would be in on this intel. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I thought the screaming person locked in the basement was Trubel.

It sounded less human and more animalistic so I thought it was Juliette screaming her head off or possibly some other wesen.

Why was Chavez leading him to a fight at an abandoned creepy warehouse (does the show keep using the same one, north of Portland along the Columbia river? for it's photogenic aspects). Why didn't they have a conversation in the car on the way explaining more about why they were going there.

Apparently Chavez was only allowed to speak in cryptic sentences like "They're coming," and "You have to be ready," which is one of the laziest and most annoying things a writing staff can do.

[TVSpectator]

So it wasn't about Nick being a Grimm, okay, thanks (great details).  Still, many in Portland knew who and what he was, it wasn't a secret, people were coming over bringing things to the door, etc.  I would think a savvy FBI agent would be in on this intel. 

 

Yeah, but let's remember that Nick  spent part of Season 4 just as a regular human and not as a Grimm. So, some may not think he is a Grimm now, but maybe Chavez isn't from Portland (and I think her background checks out that she isn't from Portland but moved up there). Although, I do wonder if Meissner knows Nick is involved and/or Chavez has focused her attention to Nick. For all we know (and I am given this show a benift of doubt here) Chavez never told Meissner who she thought was a Grimm, but just said she got it covered. 

Edited October 31, 2015 by TVSpectator

[OtterMommy]

Yeah, but let's remember that Nick  spent part of Season 4 just as a regular human and not as a Grimm. So, some may not think he is a Grimm now, but maybe Chavez isn't from Portland (and I think her background checks out that she isn't from Portland but moved up there). Although, I do wonder if Meissner knows Nick is involved and/or Chavez has focused her attention to Nick. For all we know (and I am given this show a benift of doubt here) Chavez never told Meissner who she thought was a Grimm, but just said she got it covered. 

 

If I remember correctly back to the beginning of season 4 (and I'm not going to go look it up because, well, that part of the season was BORING!) Chavez knew there was a Grimm in Portland and even thought it was Nick.  She pulled him into an interview room and woged but, at the time, he was still Grimmless.  Since she was sure that a Grimm was living in his house, she knew it had to be Trubel (apparently Juliette was never suspected).

As for Meisner...we don't know how long the two of them have been working together.  Since she's been confident for a year (or maybe a couple weeks?  This is season 4 we're talking about...) that Trubel was the only Grimm, it could just be that Nick "never came up" between her and Meisner.

 

I also have to admit that I am more and more intrigued by Meisner.  Is he a Grimm?  Is he KSK?  Is he Wesen?  How did he come to be in Portland?  How did he know where Diana was?  When will he take his shirt off?  These are things that I need to know.

 

Also, someone who is more skilled at coming up with thread titles needs to start one for him.  If Trubel gets a thread, Meisner should have one, too.

Edited October 31, 2015 by OtterMommy

[TVSpectator]

I think Meisner is just a human and not a Wesen. Although, it was never confirmed that he was a Grimm but if he was one, then Chavez would've know it as well. 

[OtterMommy]

I think Meisner is just a human and not a Wesen. Although, it was never confirmed that he was a Grimm but if he was one, then Chavez would've know it as well. 

 

It was never confirmed as to what he was.  I mean, he's at least KSK.  I would just like to know what he is, although I have to say I kind of like the idea of him being at least a gray character.  I could even go for him being all out villain, especially if he pulled Adalind back to the dark side.

[Dobian]

So Elizabeth Rodriguez has had her character killed off in two different shows in about a month.  Is that some sort of tv record?

 

Oh, and welcome back, Grimm!

[greenbean]

Oh, so her name is Trubel! It sounded like Trouble to me. lol

[TVSpectator]

Oh, so her name is Trubel! It sounded like Trouble to me. lol

It's actually Therese but by typing my replies up so fast I just noticed that I was calling her "Trubel". I have to say that is still the most stupidest part of her character, so far. 

[merylinkid]

I think I recall her full name is Theresa Rubel.   But, of course, the angsty teen introduced herself as "They call me Trouble."    I really wish they would drop that nickname.   It was 1) cliched to hell and back and 2) not what she is anymore.   

[OtterMommy]

I had no idea that DG and Bitsy were involved, but honestly, I don't think that it would have mattered. This show has never lived up to its potential and mostly because the writers never had a vision for the show and they definitely have no backbone.. Renard was originally supposed to be a bad guy, but they like Sasha Roiz so they did a 180 with the character eliminating the tension that the show needed. They decided that they liked Claire Coffee so they made Analind a regular. So of course, they would not fire an actress who they liked. Juliette will show up later this season.

 

Re: Renard.  I just don't get this.  I mean, why couldn't he be a villain, or at least gray.  He was so, so much more interesting in season 1 up until he drank the magic milkshake than he ever was at any point after that.

 

And, you know what?  Villains, when done well, are cool.  When they are done well, they can be more effective than the hero.  That's why I just don't understand why they had to sanitize Renard and it looks like they are sanitizing Adalind.  Of course, Adalind was never a successful villain--instead of giving her any real teeth, they just made her a dumb, and apparently incredibly fertile, blonde.  Claire Coffee can do evil...the show just won't let her....

[merylinkid]

And they forgot she is a lawyer.   Last time I checked, Oregon doesn't have a special bar for Wesen.   So she had to pass the regular bar exam.   Was a practicing attorney when we first saw her.   So she could be something more than a babymaker.   She could file a civil rights suit againt the Portland PD for all the fakery going on with the police reports to hide the Wesen stuff.   What are they going to say "umm no we didn't frame this guy, he's this unknown species that only very special people can see?"

 

It was a much better show when everyone and his great aunt didn't know Wesen existed.   And there weren't four million shadowy groups running around doing who knows what.   

 

I liked it when we got a WoW and learned how they cope in the human world.   Remember the Wesen old folks home?   Organ Grinder with the trafficking of Wesen?  Where was the Wesen council for that one by the way, since the families couldn't go to the cops?   This should probably go in another thread so I'll stop here but just pointing out as someone said above, this show does not do HUGE! MYSTERY! ARC! well.   It works betters as a procedural.

[OtterMommy]

And they forgot she is a lawyer.   Last time I checked, Oregon doesn't have a special bar for Wesen.   So she had to pass the regular bar exam.   Was a practicing attorney when we first saw her.   So she could be something more than a babymaker.   She could file a civil rights suit againt the Portland PD for all the fakery going on with the police reports to hide the Wesen stuff.   What are they going to say "umm no we didn't frame this guy, he's this unknown species that only very special people can see?"

 

Actually, she's going to be a lawyer again....

[DeeDee79]

OtterMommy where do you get your info?? I'm a sucker for spoilers but my digging hasn't unearthed some of the tidbits you've shared.

[OtterMommy]

OtterMommy where do you get your info?? I'm a sucker for spoilers but my digging hasn't unearthed some of the tidbits you've shared.

 

 

I'm trying to find the exact tweet, but either the Grimm Writers or Norberto Barba tweeted out the synopsis of a future episode (5.4 I think) that talks about Adalind's career plans.  Claire Coffee also said this would happen in her SDCC interviews.

 

Edited because the original link I had here was not the right spoiler....

Edited November 1, 2015 by OtterMommy

[rubyred]

I hate Adalind; I've always hated her, and I think, am pretty sure, in fact, that we were supposed to hate her. She drugged and raped Hank. She magicked and raped Nick, got pregnant with "his" love child. All the bad stuff that happened to Juliette after that - for all Juliette likers or lovers - was due to Adalind and her "hijinks." She killed and schemed and raped with abandon and now they are trying to have her want to co-parent with Nick? That is so far out of what she would WANT to do, based on how her character has behaved thus far, that it's ludicrous. I keep hoping she'll disappear and there might be some minor drama looking for her, but then Nick gets too busy to worry about his rape-baby so he says, meh, I'll send him to college when he shows up in 17 years. A girl can dream.

 

Juliette is so not dead. I knew they didn't have the guts to really kill her off, especially since she and DG are real life love interests. Which is a really gutless way to run your show, showrunners.

This, so much this.

 

I was watching but missed seeing BT's name in the credits, so I started the episode cautiously optimistic that they had nutted up and killed Juliette for real. But then Meisner showed up, and that screech, and I was like, uh oh...

 

"Juliette" has been dead for a long time. The final nail in the coffin was her complicity in ambushing Kelly. But when she torched the trailer: dead.to.me. I so needed her to be dead after that. But I haven't been optimistic that they'd really get rid of her and now the only hope I have is that they don't follow through on the hints, like all the other storylines that have been introduced then dropped.

 

Like, say - that damned map! Remember that? When Chavez went for her pocket I was sure she was going to pull out another piece of that key, but what was it? A fucking chess piece? The Royals "arc" was fucked up when it became clear they were writing as they went and didn't have a solid arc or story to write to. The waste of James Frain! And then poor Alexis Denisov, they gave him so little to work with he ran away to be on a poorly-written show on MTV but at least in that one he isn't required to be "menacing" (not his forte) and can practice his American accent.

 

I've never understood why this show had to introduce babies into the mix. I wish the gypsy lady had taken Diana and that was the last we heard from her. Adalind as devoted mother I will never buy, because she fully intended to sell Diana before she was born. Childbirth is not shorthand for moral redemption, writers. And to double down with another pregnancy, smh.

 

This episode was hard to watch; I loved seeing all the gang again but Manic!Nick is not my favorite mode. Chavez was needlessly cryptic- and why on earth wouldn't she have figured out or assumed that Nick might be a Grimm? Is it a "there can be only one" situation? I don't remember, because I don't think the show even knows.

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's take the spoiler stuff where it belongs, please.

[anamika]

I'm hoping for that, but only if she's not a crazy, murderous Hexenbeist. And that she also gets to kick some Four Liners ass.

 

Please no. Juliette kicking ass was some of the worst writing this show has done. The actress looks like a strong breeze could blow her away and her beating up wesen with her twig like arms when even Hank has difficulty taking them down are just some of the things I disliked about the character. I think the writers don't realize that strong female characters don't have to be physically strong.  They just threw everything on the character, trying to make it stick. All knowing science expert who can shoot like a pro and beat up the bad guys.

 

If they do bring her back, I hope they are more restrained in their writing of her. She can show up if necessary. Don't put Juliette in every scene because they need to give the actress something to do or satisfy some SJW quota for strong female characters on their crappy show.

 

I hope Hank is not sidelined again this season.

[OtterMommy]

Please no. Juliette kicking ass was some of the worst writing this show has done. The actress looks like a strong breeze could blow her away and her beating up wesen with her twig like arms when even Hank has difficulty taking them down are just some of the things I disliked about the character. I think the writers don't realize that strong female characters don't have to be physically strong.  They just threw everything on the character, trying to make it stick. All knowing science expert who can shoot like a pro and beat up the bad guys.

 

If they do bring her back, I hope they are more restrained in their writing of her. She can show up if necessary. Don't put Juliette in every scene because they need to give the actress something to do or satisfy some SJW quota for strong female characters on their crappy show.

 

I hope Hank is not sidelined again this season.

 

Re: Juliette...I hope if/when she comes back, they handle her character very carefully.  Viewers were all over the board with her...some just hate her, some hated her as a hexenbiest but loved her as a "human," some loved the idea of her as a hexenbiest but not the execution (I'm talking both writing and performance), some just plain loved her.  They need to really start at ground zero with her...which could actually be possible at this point.  She was never a fully realized character but, strangely, they might have the opportunity to remedy that.  I'm working on softening my view on her because, no matter what I thought of her, I still preferred her to Adalind.  

 

Re: Hank...I hope not either.  That was one of the encouraging things in the list episode--Hank was actually stepping up and being the leader instead of just sort of following Nick around (which was strange, since Hank was the more senior detective of the two).  I mean, Russell Hornsby is the second billed star of this show and he really hasn't had anything to do for pretty much the entire series so far.

[33kaitykaity]

Kelly really is dead because the actress who played her is on Limitless. I believe Juliette is dead because I don't see how she can be redeemed, Burning down the trailer and killing Kelly are unforgivable acts. I hate what the writers are doing to Nick. He had little angst in Season one now he's filled with angst.

I can never forgive the burning of the trailer.  Ever.

[placate]

I'm sick of the writers.  I'm done with this show if they don't properly establish somethings:

 

-WTF are the royals?  Are they human, wesen, royal grimms?

-the other 11 royal house holds, one of which is Japanese but all of them participated in all the crusades

-the powerful coins that Kelly had which she needed to drop in a volcano and didn't

-stupid keys

-why is Diana special when her and Renard are basically the same

 

It's been 5 seasons, instead of adding more antagonists, how about explaining some of the ones that have already been brought up in the show.  Like freaking Adalind the serial rapist.  She's raped two people and we're suppose to feel some sort of sympathy towards her because she brought a rape baby to term?  She still raped Nick and Hank....wtf.

 

If Juliette is brought back as some sort of science experiment/super hexenbeist, I'm just going to lost my shit.  Hey show runners, she's freaking boring and I'm not going to sit through another season of this.  If she's still alive she's going to keep going after Nick/Adalind and the rape baby because she's a boring character.

[33kaitykaity]

I'm sick of the writers.  I'm done with this show if they don't properly establish somethings:

 

-WTF are the royals?  Are they human, wesen, royal grimms?

-the other 11 royal house holds, one of which is Japanese but all of them participated in all the crusades

-the powerful coins that Kelly had which she needed to drop in a volcano and didn't

-stupid keys

-why is Diana special when her and Renard are basically the same

 

It's been 5 seasons, instead of adding more antagonists, how about explaining some of the ones that have already been brought up in the show.  Like freaking Adalind the serial rapist.  She's raped two people and we're suppose to feel some sort of sympathy towards her because she brought a rape baby to term?  She still raped Nick and Hank....wtf.

 

If Juliette is brought back as some sort of science experiment/super hexenbeist, I'm just going to lost my shit.  Hey show runners, she's freaking boring and I'm not going to sit through another season of this.  If she's still alive she's going to keep going after Nick/Adalind and the rape baby because she's a boring character.

I wish I could like this post a thousand times.  ;)

[ShadowFacts]

 

I've never understood why this show had to introduce babies into the mix. I wish the gypsy lady had taken Diana and that was the last we heard from her. Adalind as devoted mother I will never buy, because she fully intended to sell Diana before she was born. Childbirth is not shorthand for moral redemption, writers. And to double down with another pregnancy, smh.

 

Amen, and thank you.  Taking care of one's own child does not confer sainthood, and to have been so soul-less as she has been, isn't changed after labor and delivery.  She is completely lacking in empathy and a moral compass.  Poor little Kelly.