The Annual Academy Awards - General Discussion

[millennium]

19 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

That's because there is a difference between fiction and reality. Plus, this happened at the Academy Awards. Nothing like this has ever happened there after decades. It's especially surprising because Will Smith is known for having a good image and not for pulling anything like this.

I'm aware.  However, I think it's reasonable to suggest that generations of men and boys have been conditioned by movie machismo.   Shown by example, time after time, that you're not a hero, not even a man really, unless you put up your fists, your sword, your gun or even your light saber to defend your dearest damsel.   I'm not making excuses for Smith, but here he is, a standard bearer for the industry responsible for that iconic American stereotype, feeling put on the spot in front of the world ... I'd have a hard time believing the movies didn't inform his reaction at some level. 

[pennben]

n/m. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by pennben

[Simon Boccanegra]

I realize there's a good reason there hasn't been much talk about this, because the story on page one was in huge screaming font, but:  

I just read over the text of Smith's acceptance speech to refresh my memory. He congratulates himself for "protecting" the three female actors who played his character's wife and daughters, and he talks about his having "made" King Richard. A viewer would easily infer he was the star/director. Not a word for Reinaldo Marcus Green, who actually directed it. I guess Green is supposed to fall under the catch-all of "all the cast and crew."

That's a pretty bad omission. Jessica Chastain even thanked the director of the Tammy Faye movie ("who created a space that inspired creativity and love and courage"), and if ever there were a star-initiated project with rote direction...

[Guest]

1 hour ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

It doesn't matter, IMO, whether innocent until proven guilty is purely a legal thing, I still think it should hold, especially when we're talking about punishing people with people losing things like jobs. Natural consequences for shitty behavior is one thing, but people losing jobs merely because they were accused of something is something else. In this situation, Will likely won't face court because Rock has refused to press charges (and I don't see him changing his mind), but we all saw what he did with our own eyes. There's no question of his guilt.

My point is more that outside of legal settings there is no universal way of deciding guilt so innocent until proven guilty literally has no meaningful definition. Many people watched what happened and genuinely don’t believe he is guilty of anything. They see mitigated circumstances. Some are certain it was staged. Some people exaggerate what was done and some minimize it. We see time and time again that two people can look at the exact evidence and one will be certain of innocence and the other certain of guilt. Which one determines the truth? When we agree with the court of public opinion we tend to believe it is proven and when disagree we see it has an outrage. Either way it is still the opinion of the court of public opinion.

Even in legal setting something being proven is simply a matter of which witnesses are believed and not objective facts. It all depends on who the judge is. If a company looks at an accusation and feels it is true it is proven from that based in the only standard available. 

1 hour ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

3 hours ago, susannah said:

Otherwise, they would be revoking Oscars on accusation. Will has not been accused of assault, millions of people saw it with their own eyes.

Agreed! This is the difference.

I do think that it was assault but then there is the question of what is a reasonable punishment. If it was handled legally it would be a misdemeanor and would result in nothing more than a slap on the wrist. Is revoking an Oscar reasonable when the court system wouldn’t have any lasting punishment? Let the punishment fit the crime is another standard. What punishment fits the crime? That’s another question with a lot of different answers. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Guest

[Hiyo]

It was a dumb joke, followed by and even more dumb reaction...

Harvey Weinsten never had to give back any of his Oscars, did he?

[MsTree]

16 hours ago, SnarkAttack said:

Rock said, "Jada, I love you" before he did the joke.  I wonder if he threw that in there, if it indeed was unscripted, to soften it.

Totally agree, but that was ignored by the Smiths. 

And Jada is a fuckin' hypocrite. Just recently she did a video saying how she's accepted her condition and thinks she looks great, but then she rolls her eyes at a silly joke?! 

[MsTree]

7 hours ago, PepSinger said:

I do think Jada is owed an apology, and I stand by that.

Apology for what? Being a hypocrite??

[Anela]

19 hours ago, Tuneful said:

From the Washington Post comment section: "You can **** my wife, but don't call her bald." 

See, these "jokes" offend me, as a woman. One man tells a stupid joke, in front of the world. Another man gets up and slugs him for it, and the woman's sex life is being brought into it, when she wasn't up there, having sex with Chris Rock. She was just sitting, enjoying an awards show, waiting to see if her husband had won an oscar. 

This isn't the only place I've seen them. I ranted elsewhere. 

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Anela

[MsTree]

3 minutes ago, Anela said:

See, these "jokes" offend me, as a woman. One man tells a stupid joke, in front of the world. Another man gets up and slugs him for it, and the woman's sex life is being brought into it, when she wasn't up there, having sex with Chris Rock. She was just sitting, enjoying an awards show, waiting to see if her husband had won an oscar. 

 

More like she was sitting there rolling her eyes at a stupid joke that didn't deserve to be made the center of Will's lack of impulse control, assaulting someone on national TV.

[chocolatine]

6 hours ago, Anela said:

See, these "jokes" offend me, as a woman. One man tells a stupid joke, in front of the world. Another man gets up and slugs him for it, and the woman's sex life is being brought into it, when she wasn't up there, having sex with Chris Rock. She was just sitting, enjoying an awards show, waiting to see if her husband had won an oscar. 

This isn't the only place I've seen them. I ranted elsewhere. 

 

Their sex life was mocked during the Oscars *before* the Chris Rock incident, when Regina Hall was doing the stupid COVID testing skit. The other men Regina had called onto the stage - Bradley Cooper, Timothee Chalamet, I forget who else - are currently single, at least as far as the public knows. Then Regina called Will and said something like "I know you're married, but Jada approved it." Will just laughed and waved it off, and I'm pretty sure Jada laughed as well.

ETA: Will and Jada have talked a lot about their sex life and open marriage, so they obviously want to get attention for it.

Edited March 30, 2022 by chocolatine

[Crs97]

One is Zoe Saldana and one is Thandie Newton

 

[bluegirl147]

4 hours ago, Anela said:

  23 hours ago, Tuneful said:

From the Washington Post comment section: "You can **** my wife, but don't call her bald." 

 

4 hours ago, Anela said:

See, these "jokes" offend me, as a woman. One man tells a stupid joke, in front of the world. Another man gets up and slugs him for it, and the woman's sex life is being brought into it, when she wasn't up there, having sex with Chris Rock. She was just sitting, enjoying an awards show, waiting to see if her husband had won an oscar. 

That joke doesn't offend me because

3 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Will and Jada have talked a lot about their sex life and open marriage, so they obviously want to get attention for it.

They can't expect to put their laundry, dirty or otherwise, out there for the world to see and not expect it to be discussed and made fun of.  It's one thing for a comedian to make fun of someone about something that is just a rumor.  But Jada did sleep with another man and they told the world Will didn't have a problem with that because they had an open marriage.  But when a joke was made about her lack of hair he reacted with violence.  The joke was funny because it was true. 

[Hiyo]

Quote

Does anyone think as I do that Jessica Chastain really really really looks like Bryce Dallas Howard?

Here is the Graham Norton bit from a few years ago:

 

Quote

However, I think it's reasonable to suggest that generations of men and boys have been conditioned by movie machismo.   Shown by example, time after time, that you're not a hero, not even a man really, unless you put up your fists, your sword, your gun or even your light saber to defend your dearest damsel.   I'm not making excuses for Smith, but here he is, a standard bearer for the industry responsible for that iconic American stereotype, feeling put on the spot in front of the world ... I'd have a hard time believing the movies didn't inform his reaction at some level. 

Javier Bardem comes from a country and culture that is even more macho machismo than what you'll find in the US, and he didn't get up and slap the shit out of anyone.

Americans need to stop blaming THE EVIL RICH ARROGANT OUT OF TOUCH HOLLYWOOD!!! for the problems in their society.

[bluegirl147]

2 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Americans need to stop blaming THE EVIL RICH ARROGANT OUT OF TOUCH HOLLYWOOD!!! for the problems in their society.

When movies were mostly westerns with duels at high noon we didn't see people dealing with their issues by having shoot outs in the middle of the street.  Gun violence came much later.  Hollywood has always been an easy scapegoat to blame for people's bad behavior.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 hours ago, Anela said:

See, these "jokes" offend me, as a woman. One man tells a stupid joke, in front of the world. Another man gets up and slugs him for it, and the woman's sex life is being brought into it, when she wasn't up there, having sex with Chris Rock. She was just sitting, enjoying an awards show, waiting to see if her husband had won an oscar. 

This isn't the only place I've seen them. I ranted elsewhere. 

Yeah it's a really really cheap and irrelevant joke.

[slowpoked]

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Of all the bystanders, I really am most appalled by the Academy's lack of action.  I was less than impressed by the reports that they "considered removing Smith but were all seated in separate areas of the theater so they couldn't make it happen in the 45 minutes before the Best Actor award was given out."

And I find that very hard to believe.  More likely, they didn't want to do the uncomfortable thing that needed to be done and escort him out so they punted.  It's far easier to hold up standards and rules of conduct when they're broken by by some low tier person but you're mettle is tested when there's an A lister.  It's the thing to turn to when there's an A lister so you don't have to wonder what to do. (btw, this is not just things the academy does.  I roll my eyes at almost all professional conferences with these because what happens if it's the keynote speaker?) 

Agree 100%. It's really disappointing that the Academy do not have a plan in place for situations like this. I know, I know - no one probably thought, or was expecting that there will be an assault happening onstage. But consultants, producers, etc., are paid millions to think of all the worst case scenarios that could happen and be prepared for it. 

Similar to the La La Land-Moonlight fiasco, I imagine there would be extra measures next year, like more security around the stage area, and probably a hard rule that unless you're a winner getting your Oscar, or part of a staged bit (heck, they might even remove the latter from now on, so sorry Regina Hall, no more single guys onstage for you), there will be no going up the stage or else you will be immediately tackled by former SSAs. 

As usual, Ricky Gervais always gets it right (although not current commentary):

 

[SusanM]

6 hours ago, MsTree said:

And Jada is a fuckin' hypocrite. Just recently she did a video saying how she's accepted her condition and thinks she looks great, but then she rolls her eyes at a silly joke?! 

Being able to talk about something personal to you, even joke about it yourself doesn't have to mean it's ok for someone else to do it to you. I mean just as one example I might be perfectly comfortable joking about being too short or too tall but that doesn't give someone else carte blanche to get up on stage and start mocking my height.  

[VengefulScorpio]

What a waste to have Rita Moreno there and not have her present anything.  They could have gotten Russ Tamblyn and Richard Beymer to present with her.  Talk about a cast reunion!

[Sarahsmile416]

52 minutes ago, SusanM said:

Being able to talk about something personal to you, even joke about it yourself doesn't have to mean it's ok for someone else to do it to you. I mean just as one example I might be perfectly comfortable joking about being too short or too tall but that doesn't give someone else carte blanche to get up on stage and start mocking my height.  

Yes - it’s a bit like the idea that you can say something derogatory about your relatives but if someone else does, it’s a different story.   I think that’s a perfectly normal dichotomy and doesn’t make someone a hypocrite, just human.  

[blackwing]

20 hours ago, ProudMary said:

Here's an interesting piece of Oscars' trivia: Since the film's release in 2011, five members of the cast of The Help have gone on to win Oscars: Octavia Spencer, Viola Davis, Emma Stone, Allison Janney and now Jessica Chastain. Additionally, cast members Mary Steenburgen and Sissy Spacek were already Oscar winners before shooting the film and this stacked cast also included Aunjanue Ellis, who was nominated this year for King Richard. Wow!

The glaring error, of course, is that the amazing Cicely Tyson never won an Oscar.

Initially I thought Amy Adams was in this cast, and thought that "she's next!"  But then remembered she was in another great movie with Viola, "Doubt", and both were Oscar nominated.  It was Bryce Dallas Howard who is the last of the main actresses who doesn't yet have an Oscar.  Of the men... I don't think Mike Vogel or Wes Chatham or Chris Lowell will be making their way up to the podium anytime soon, but who knows?  David Oyelowo (who will always be Danny from MI-5/Spooks to me) is probably the only man in the cast that is Oscar-caliber.

19 hours ago, Inquisitionist said:

I'm starting to wonder if there's a LM-M backlash -- like some members of the Academy don't want to see him join the EGOT club...

I don't think there's backlash against him.  I just think the Academy couldn't pass up the chance to award James Bond and particularly Billie Eilish.  I mean, Sam Smith has an Oscar for an equally boring James Bond song, so it was all but written that Eilish would win.  If the Academy will give EGOT to that hack John Legend so that his even bigger hack wife can forever talk about it, I don't think there's bias against awarding EGOT to anyone.

15 hours ago, Pickles Aplenty said:

I feel bad for Chris because it's humiliating to get hit, especially in front of other people (let alone an audience of millions).  I have personal experience with that, and it sucks.  I don't know how Chris feels, but when it happened to me, I wanted to run and hide because the shame was so intense.   I can't say much else about it except that it's a terrible feeling, and my sympathy is with him, even if he did say something shitty (or at least something the Smiths considered shitty).

Yep.  That screenshot of him wincing and making that face... going to be seen for years and years to come.  And it's not flattering.  Reminds me of the face on Lee Harvey Oswald as he is being killed by Jack Ruby.

11 hours ago, Artsda said:

Zoe's caption is awesome. lol

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cbs-pDdvhkr/

I am chuckling at actor reactions.  Jamie Dornan's instagram has a series of photos of him and his wife at the Oscars where he thanks the Academy for inviting him.  His caption reads "what a great fight, I mean, night!"  Too funny.

[RealHousewife]

1 hour ago, SusanM said:

Being able to talk about something personal to you, even joke about it yourself doesn't have to mean it's ok for someone else to do it to you. I mean just as one example I might be perfectly comfortable joking about being too short or too tall but that doesn't give someone else carte blanche to get up on stage and start mocking my height.  

Exactly. I'll make fun of myself regarding things I would be really hurt by if someone else did. Perhaps I shouldn't do it either, but it's different coming from another person. 

27 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

Yes - it’s a bit like the idea that you can say something derogatory about your relatives but if someone else does, it’s a different story.   I think that’s a perfectly normal dichotomy and doesn’t make someone a hypocrite, just human.  

This is true too. That said, one of my pet peeves is when someone is extremely cruel about a family member (or anyone) but suddenly cares about them oh so much when someone else says something remotely negative. I've known quite a few men who are like this. They'll shit on their wives all day, put down everything about them, but then they fancy themselves the hero for sticking up for them if an in-law makes a comment. 

9 hours ago, millennium said:

I'm aware.  However, I think it's reasonable to suggest that generations of men and boys have been conditioned by movie machismo.   Shown by example, time after time, that you're not a hero, not even a man really, unless you put up your fists, your sword, your gun or even your light saber to defend your dearest damsel.   I'm not making excuses for Smith, but here he is, a standard bearer for the industry responsible for that iconic American stereotype, feeling put on the spot in front of the world ... I'd have a hard time believing the movies didn't inform his reaction at some level. 

It's possible. Men definitely have this pressure to be extremely macho and want to be admired as heroes even when they don't truly care about people. You want to be a good guy and stand out as a good example of healthy masculinity? Be kind and respectful towards women, and men for that matter. It sounds like such a low bar, but too many men don't meet it. 

Even though I said I understood why Will reacted the way he did (even though he should never have put his hands on Chris), I don't get the posts calling Jada out at all. She didn't assault anyone or tell her husband to do so. It was an involuntary eye roll. 

5 hours ago, Crs97 said:

One is Zoe Saldana and one is Thandie Newton

 

I guess I'm weird, but I don't think they look THAT much alike either! I can only see confusing them if you just saw each of them once or something. 

[Shannon L.]

There have been horrible incidents before--it's just been a while, so many of us weren't aware of them. 

 

Hattie McDaniel wasn't allowed to sit at the Gone With the Wind table, but had to sit at a small table, way off to the side, with only her guest.  Imagining knowing that they think you're good enough to win an award, but God forbid you sit with the people you worked with for several months.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Shannon L.

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

It was an involuntary eye roll. 

There was nothing involuntary about it. Jada wasn't amused by Chris's joke and so rolled her eyes. Which she had every right to do so. She wasn't amused and she let him know without resorting to violence.

Edited March 30, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[SusanM]

22 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Even though I said I understood why Will reacted the way he did (even though he should never have put his hands on Chris), I don't get the posts calling Jada out at all. She didn't assault anyone or tell her husband to do so. It was an involuntary eye roll. 

So much this.  Unless I've missed it I haven't seen any reports that she encouraged Smith to even speak out at the time let alone go on stage and hit Rock yet that's the message I keep getting from multiple sources.  It seems she is not well liked so therefore it's ok to presume that she is the instigator and Smith was merely doing her bidding?

[SusanM]

58 minutes ago, VengefulScorpio said:

What a waste to have Rita Moreno there and not have her present anything.  They could have gotten Russ Tamblyn and Richard Beymer to present with her.  Talk about a cast reunion!

I don't watch awards shows (just read about them) but I would definitely have made a point of watching for that!

[slowpoked]

30 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

It was an involuntary eye roll. 

Which is the proper reaction to a bad joke at these awards shows. I'm not blaming Jada for anything at all. This is all Will. Even if she said she's fine and proud being bald before, she's entitled to react the way she did, which she did in her own space, not harming others. 

Everyone is entitled to whatever reaction they have - whether to laugh it off, give a stinkeye, roll their eyes, have no reaction at all, mouth a response back, etc - but in the comfort of their own seat (and table) and it is never, ever right to physically assault anyone. 

Had Will only shouted back "Get my wife's name out of your f'ing mouth" from his seat, without approaching and hitting Chris, it probably still wouldn't have been a good look. But I would think that Chris would have gotten the message without being slapped. And everyone would go on their merry way.

Edited March 30, 2022 by slowpoked

[KittyQ]

13 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

There certainly seemed to be plenty of people - Denzel, Tyler, Bradley - who suspected it wasn't a stunt since they went to Smith to coddle him as if he was the one who had been slapped.

I wonder if they knew that Will was likely to do something rash for any reason. Maybe they were aware of some preexisting mental state that would cause him to act out. It does seem strange that they would so quickly go to him not to restrain him or escort him out (the way people sometimes take someone outside to "cool down" in a tense situation), but to almost comfort him.  Strange. I also hope that someone took care of the guy that actually got hit!

[Hiyo]

Quote

Initially I thought Amy Adams was in this cast, and thought that "she's next!"

Interesting fact about Amy, she is tied with Deborah Kerr and Thelma Ritter as the actresses with the second most acting nominations without ever winning (Glenn Close is in first place, with 8 total acting nominations and no wins).

[RealHousewife]

22 minutes ago, KittyQ said:

I wonder if they knew that Will was likely to do something rash for any reason. Maybe they were aware of some preexisting mental state that would cause him to act out. It does seem strange that they would so quickly go to him not to restrain him or escort him out (the way people sometimes take someone outside to "cool down" in a tense situation), but to almost comfort him.  Strange. I also hope that someone took care of the guy that actually got hit!

Maybe they thought Will was having a breakdown?

I also hope Chris got comfort and support. 

[SusanM]

27 minutes ago, KittyQ said:

Strange. I also hope that someone took care of the guy that actually got hit!

 We could see those around Smith we couldn't see those around Rock but I'm sure he got his share of attention backstage!

[Ms Blue Jay]

Wanda Sykes discusses her perspective

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1035406347067052

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, VengefulScorpio said:

What a waste to have Rita Moreno there and not have her present anything.  They could have gotten Russ Tamblyn and Richard Beymer to present with her.  Talk about a cast reunion!

Yes.  In fairness to the Academy, she did present Best Picture at last year's awful show, so maybe they thought she had presented recently.  But still, considering that the West Side Story remake was nominated for Best Picture, it seems like a glaring omission not to use her.

But I suppose Rachel Zegler had to whine her way into an invitation, and then the Academy was guilt tripped into naming her as a presenter, so no room for Rita.  Would rather have seen Rita.

[slowpoked]

I think in the end, the Academy will give Will a slap on the wrist - have him not invited to next year's telecast, but have a video message apologizing for his behavior (similar to Justin Timberlake at the Grammy's post-Super Bowl). There's really been no precedent for this situation, or even something as drastic as taking back his Oscar.

In hindsight, Academy leadership probably wished they whisked  him away outside the theatre even though he's the presumptive Best Actor winner, and maybe just let Jada accept on his behalf and do the talking?

I would love to see Amy Schumer back to host next year, as the solo host. I would love to see more hosting material from her for a full show. Her brand of comedy actually plays well at these events - perfect mix of biting commentary with enough self-deprecation. But see, until this simmers long enough, or the industry sees the definitive "punishment" for Will, a lot of potential hosts may not want to take the job at all, for fear of their own safety. 

That, OR, the writing will be really, really safe and lame. Which is too bad. Aside from the winners, I like watching the Oscars for the sometimes scathing jokes on the celebrities' expense. 

[ProudMary]

For those jonesing for a bit more Rita Moreno, here's her E! red carpet interview from Sunday night. It was fairly early in the festivities, so some may have missed it. We should all be so lucky as to look this great and be this vital at 90! Truly an American treasure. 👏

 

[CountryGirl]

Rita Moreno is 90???

She looks amazing and yes, may I be that alive at that age. 

[CountryGirl]

After learning that Will and his mother were victims of domestic violence, with Will witnessing his mother being beaten by his father, I really do hope he gets therapy as it is clear he still has demons.

Which I understand as I am a fellow DV survivor and therapy was a godsend for me. 

[LadyIrony]

17 hours ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

I don’t think he snapped.  If you watch the footage, he hears the joke.  He laughs.  Time goes by.  Rock moves on, even makes a joke about how bad the joke was.  Then, Will Smith, very methodically, gets up, walks very carefully and deliberately to Rock, and hits him.  He had time to think about it, and what he thought was “I’m going to go up there and hit him.”  He was fully in control at all times.  I have no idea why he decided to do this, but he definitely decided to do it. 

Which is another reason why it seems staged to me. He could have given Chris a warning look during the jokes, said something etc but no, he sits there laughing along. Then decides to get up and slap him and go into a rant about not talking about his wife.

At that point most people would leave but not Will, he sits down and waits for his award. The audience give him a standing ovation for assault.

Then public opinion rolls in. Oh damn! People are on Chris' side?! Really?! Better apologize! There will be investigations!

Would the cops even care? Jackass 1 talks about Jackass 2's wife. Jackass 2 gives Jackass 1 a limp wristed slap. Other jackasses applaud.

All in an industry that supports defund the police.

 

[Rebecca berkowit]

29 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

After learning that Will and his mother were victims of domestic violence, with Will witnessing his mother being beaten by his father, I really do hope he gets therapy as it is clear he still has demons.

Which I understand as I am a fellow DV survivor and therapy was a godsend for me. 

Sadly, the calculated hitting, smirk, screaming and cursing, and the crying apology speech “love made me do it” reminded me way too much of an abusive spouse.  I hope for Jada’s sake it isn’t true.  But sometimes this is learned behavior when you see a parent do it.  (I know, I know, he says hE felt bad for not being able to protect his mom.  Still, I stand by what I saw, I’ve seen it before.)

Edited March 30, 2022 by Rebecca berkowit

[slowpoked]

1 hour ago, Hiyo said:

Interesting fact about Amy, she is tied with Deborah Kerr and Thelma Ritter as the actresses with the second most acting nominations without ever winning (Glenn Close is in first place, with 8 total acting nominations and no wins).

What both Amy and Glenn need is an intense campaign built around the narrative that they're "way overdue", but not make it appear that they're thirsty for it where voters would be turned off voting for them. It's a very delicate balance, but with the right campaign machine, it can be done. It's less obvious with Amy because she's younger, and people may not realize she's already been nominated however many times. But as we all know by now, Oscar wins are more about campaigns than the merits of the performances. So their movie studios should have sole focus on getting them their Oscar  by jumping on this overdue narrative.

I mean, look at Will Smith. Sure, his performance in King Richard is Oscar-worthy to be nominated. But as the best one of the year? I'm not really sure. I watched the movie and I was left unmoved by his performance. I was more drawn to Aunjanue's performance, tbh. But he's got the narrative.

Same with Jessica Chastain, although I'm not really sure that I buy into the narrative that she's "overdue". I don't think she is, but for some reason the narrative was out there and obviously didn't hurt her.

Of course, I thought Glenn would ride that overdue narrative in 2019. But Olivia Colman snatched the victory at the last second and poor Glenn is still searching for her first win. 

The narrative thing is also not 100% fool-proof - I really thought Kirsten Dunst would also win this year, not so much for her specific performance for TPOTD but to award her entire body of work as an actress, which had some really amazing performances on there, but not enough to get her nominations. But for some reason, TPOTD stumbled late along the campaign trail after coming out strong during the nominations, and no doubt it took Kirsten down with it. 

[yowsah1]

1 hour ago, SusanM said:

So much this.  Unless I've missed it I haven't seen any reports that she encouraged Smith to even speak out at the time let alone go on stage and hit Rock yet that's the message I keep getting from multiple sources.  It seems she is not well liked so therefore it's ok to presume that she is the instigator and Smith was merely doing her bidding?

Given that Smith's excuse for his actions was exactly that, it's not surprising that many people came to that conclusion.

1 hour ago, SusanM said:

 We could see those around Smith we couldn't see those around Rock but I'm sure he got his share of attention backstage!

No, he didn't. Reports say he walked offstage and left the building. Nobody said a word to him.

[Teriacky]

To be truthful, I’ve wanted to slap Chris Rock for years. I don’t like his yelling delivery and find him obnoxious. However..,

I would never strike another person unless it was in self defense. I do think Rock should have apologized to Jada. And… I’m pretty sure Will Smith will not be handing out the best actress Oscar next year. 

[yowsah1]

12 minutes ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

Sadly, the calculated hitting, smirk, screaming and cursing, and the crying apology speech “love made me do it” reminded me way too much of an abusive spouse.  I hope for Jada’s sake it isn’t true.  But sometimes this is learned behavior when you see a parent do it.  (I know, I know, he says hE felt bad for not being able to protect his mom.  Still, I stand by what I saw, I’ve seen it before.)

You are not the only person who saw that. In many of the news stories I heard the day after the incident, many women who had been abused said they saw that exact parallel.

[Rebecca berkowit]

1 minute ago, yowsah1 said:

You are not the only person who saw that. In many of the news stories I heard the day after the incident, many women who had been abused said they saw that exact parallel.

I’m glad someone noticed, good to know it’s not just me.   I will search this up.  

[ProudMary]

I'm not expecting all that much in terms of direct action by the Academy against Will Smith, but I do think action will come from SAG-AFTRA. Indeed, changes to future Oscar telecasts by the Academy, inspired by this incident, may very well come because of pressure from SAG-AFTRA. While name-above-the-title actors are certainly treated very differently than an 18 year old kid who gets a line in a commercial, they are ALL still members of a union. Union member Chris Rock was put into a dangerous situation at his workplace both by fellow union member Will Smith AND by his "employer" (for the evening, at least) the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences for not having and/or enforcing proper security measures.

SAG-AFTRA's statement after the incident was a lot stronger than the two released by the Academy. (I posted their statement in this thread what seems like 20 pages ago. 🙃) I'm linking a THR article with the text of their statement here:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/sag-aftra-response-will-smith-chris-rock-slap-oscars-1235121256/

I doubt we'll hear a lot more from the union as they've specifically said that "SAG-AFTRA does not comment on any pending member disciplinary process” but I'm pretty sure that both Will Smith and the Academy will be hearing a lot from them very shortly if they haven't already.

Edited to add: I re-read the SAG-AFTRA statement and they've also been in touch with ABC on this matter. Hello Disney.

Edited March 30, 2022 by ProudMary

[dmeets]

18 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

The narrative thing is also not 100% fool-proof - I really thought Kirsten Dunst would also win this year, not so much for her specific performance for TPOTD but to award her entire body of work as an actress, which had some really amazing performances on there, but not enough to get her nominations. But for some reason, TPOTD stumbled late along the campaign trail after coming out strong during the nominations, and no doubt it took Kirsten down with it. 

Body of work probably doesn't factor in until after 50. On the mens' side, I would argue that at this point Benedict Cumberbatch and Andrew Garfield have more impressive resumes* than Will Smith, despite being around 10 and 15 years younger than him. Hopefully both of them will have plenty more opportunities.

* in terms of acting caliber, not box office draw

Actually, come to think of it, I'm not sure if body of work factors in as much for the women. Young talent seems to have a better chance at Supporting Actress than at Actor/Supporting Actor.

[SusanM]

32 minutes ago, yowsah1 said:

No, he didn't. Reports say he walked offstage and left the building. Nobody said a word to him.

That's really odd because I'm sure I read, either here or somewhere else that he was with Al Pacino immediately afterwards and that he spoke with people backstage about the incident.  I guess there will always be conflicting stories but hopefully Rock himself will eventually speak up if he hasn't already.

[blackwing]

28 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

What both Amy and Glenn need is an intense campaign built around the narrative that they're "way overdue", but not make it appear that they're thirsty for it where voters would be turned off voting for them. It's a very delicate balance, but with the right campaign machine, it can be done. It's less obvious with Amy because she's younger, and people may not realize she's already been nominated however many times. But as we all know by now, Oscar wins are more about campaigns than the merits of the performances. So their movie studios should have sole focus on getting them their Oscar  by jumping on this overdue narrative.

I mean, look at Will Smith. Sure, his performance in King Richard is Oscar-worthy to be nominated. But as the best one of the year? I'm not really sure. I watched the movie and I was left unmoved by his performance. I was more drawn to Aunjanue's performance, tbh. But he's got the narrative.

Same with Jessica Chastain, although I'm not really sure that I buy into the narrative that she's "overdue". I don't think she is, but for some reason the narrative was out there and obviously didn't hurt her.

Of course, I thought Glenn would ride that overdue narrative in 2019. But Olivia Colman snatched the victory at the last second and poor Glenn is still searching for her first win. 

The narrative thing is also not 100% fool-proof - I really thought Kirsten Dunst would also win this year, not so much for her specific performance for TPOTD but to award her entire body of work as an actress, which had some really amazing performances on there, but not enough to get her nominations. But for some reason, TPOTD stumbled late along the campaign trail after coming out strong during the nominations, and no doubt it took Kirsten down with it. 

I completely agree regarding Jessica Chastain.  It was a great performance, but I wasn't understanding the narrative that she was "overdue".  As far as I can remember, she has only been in movies for about 10 years.  I think the aforementioned "The Help" might have been one of her first roles.  Followed by her nominated turn in "Zero Dark Thirty".

There are plenty of people I would have put on the "overdue" list before her.  In addition to Glenn Close and Amy Adams.... there's Michelle Pfeiffer (truly a national treasure), Sigourney Weaver, Angela Bassett, Annette Bening, Helena Bonham Carter, Kristin Scott Thomas.  As to men... Edward Norton, Ralph Fiennes, Liam Neeson, Willem Dafoe, Harrison Ford.  I'm sure there's plenty more.  All of these people are more overdue than Chastain supposedly was.

I'd have put Jessica Chastain on equal "overdue" level as Emily Blunt.  I love Emily Blunt, but I'd hardly say either have been around long enough to merit the "overdue" narrative.

[ProudMary]

1 minute ago, SusanM said:

That's really odd because I'm sure I read, either here or somewhere else that he was with Al Pacino immediately afterwards and that he spoke with people backstage about the incident.  I guess there will always be conflicting stories but hopefully Rock himself will eventually speak up if he hasn't already.

He's got a now sold-out gig in Boston this weekend. Should be interesting. Ticket sales for his current tour have skyrocketed since Sunday night.

[ProudMary]

5 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I completely agree regarding Jessica Chastain.  It was a great performance, but I wasn't understanding the narrative that she was "overdue".  As far as I can remember, she has only been in movies for about 10 years.  I think the aforementioned "The Help" might have been one of her first roles.  Followed by her nominated turn in "Zero Dark Thirty".

She was actually nominated for Supporting Actress for her excellent performance in The Help, and might have won too but there was NO denying her co-star Octavia Spencer's magnificence that year. The Academy should start booking THAT cast for a 15 year reunion in 2026 right now!

[slowpoked]

5 minutes ago, blackwing said:

There are plenty of people I would have put on the "overdue" list before her.  In addition to Glenn Close and Amy Adams.... there's Michelle Pfeiffer (truly a national treasure), Sigourney Weaver, Angela Bassett, Annette Bening, Helena Bonham Carter, Kristin Scott Thomas.  As to men... Edward Norton, Ralph Fiennes, Liam Neeson, Willem Dafoe, Harrison Ford.  I'm sure there's plenty more.  All of these people are more overdue than Chastain supposedly was.

I would add Michelle Williams to that list, as well, although she's on the younger side. But I'm almost always mesmerized by whatever performance she gives. I think she's one of those actresses that tend to be overlooked and under-appreciated during Oscar time, in that while she gets nominated, it's not enough for a win, and people think "Oh well, she's still young, she has a lot of great performances left in her. Let's award ____________ this time."

7 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I'd have put Jessica Chastain on equal "overdue" level as Emily Blunt.  I love Emily Blunt, but I'd hardly say either have been around long enough to merit the "overdue" narrative.

Emily hasn't even been nominated yet. I suspect she will eventually take Kirsten's path in which there's an award worthy movie that may not necessarily be her best, but a lot of people will think she's "overdue" in that sense. FWIW, I think she should have been nominated for The Devil Wears Prada, Girl on the Train and A Quiet Place 1. 

Another "overdue" actress that in my personal opinion is such a travesty that she has never been nominated, and a good chance that she will never ever be nominated - Cameron Diaz. There was a stretch in her career that she was just giving out one exemplary performance after another. But no cigar, which is really a shame. I would have given her nominations for My Best Friend's Wedding, Vanilla Sky, Gangs of New York and Being John Malkovich. 

16 minutes ago, SusanM said:

but hopefully Rock himself will eventually speak up if he hasn't already.

But why would he though? He's currently winning the "narrative". Heh.