S05.E03: Siege Perilous

[Spartan Girl]

Dear Writers,

Unless you do Aladdin in the VERY NEAR future, stop with the Agrabah references. They're just a tease.

And no, OUAT in Wonderland didn't count as doing Aladdin.

[HoodlumSheep]

^ I don't want them ruining how awesome Jafar was in Wonderland.

It's been a few days and I'm still reeling from that CS scene. Actually, this whole season has me reeling. I've been staying up way past the time I normally go to bed on Sundays, because of Once. I couldn't say the same for any of season 4, except for like an episode or two. I love this season currently.

I actually forgot about poor Mickey. Merlin was able to communicate with him somehow after being stuck in a tree. And that door should technically be around, unless this new curse somehow got rid of the mansion altogether.

Edited October 13, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[kili]

I actually forgot about poor Mickey. Merlin was able to communicate with him somehow after being stuck in a tree. And that door should technically be around, unless this new curse somehow got rid of the mansion altogether.

 

Wasn't Mickey communicating with Merlin before Merlin ended up in a tree? I only recall Mickey referencing having talked to Merlin about Ingrid's request (prior to the birth of Emma) and talking to the cloud about what he did moving the darkness from fetus Emma into fetus Lily. Merlin was apparently walking around when Emma was 6, so both those episodes happened prior to him being treed.

[Mitch]

Bad episode is when the take away for me is that I suddenly find Happy kind of  cute and hot..nice change from the pretty boys running around Storybrooke. Who is running the SB gym for Happy's workouts?

 

Speaking of pretty boys, I always know a Charming centric is going to be boring. I liked that they had him address the fact that really, all he does is stand around and hold Snow's purse...(well, my other take away is how skinny is that actor in real life, even on TV his waist looks like its 18..) but then they had him do the same dull stuff of going on a quest for some stupid magic object. And please, they have spent enough time in the real world, can they stop with the...."hero and villain," stuff? To hear a man in his 30's talking about being a hero like he is a kid is kind of weird, they should have him address his feelings of just being a "man," who is trying to protect and take care of his family and community...(I can see a new viewer watching this show and rolliing their eyes...) Is Snow preggers again in real life and that is why she holds the baby all the time?  The show has no dramatic momentum.... why couldn't Snow have been suspicious of how Camelot is run,,,doing a Walking Dead Carol undercover thing and go around the castle...acting just like a non threatening house frau and concerned mom talking to the staff, etc, and then she finds Lancelot not the other way around (another bad thing of this show Season 2..the characters are never proactive and things just happen to them, and their butts are saved by a coincidence or magic.)

 

What was the Regina scene all about? I can only think that it to create a conflict between her and Robin...who being the "hero" he is will want Zelena to stay involved. I actually can't wait for Zelena to get the cuff off and hand Regina her ass again..and I like Regina. I have to say I find Hook utterly boring pining for Emma but his line was the funniest thing I heard on this show in a long time. Keep up the innuendos show.

 

So Emma has fallen into every other Once villains cycle of making overly elaborate and bad plans that will easily fall apart at the last minute. I was hoping more from the Dark Swan then making Rumple a "hero," (there is that work again, just drop it already show..) uh, arent there more good people in town to pull out that cheap looking sword? 

 

Good things, No Henry, Hot Happy, the new characters were used as support for the main cast, the humor. Bad things, characters acting like 8 year olds still mouthing about heros and villains, Charming doing the same dull thing he always does, the non momentum of the show and the continued reliance on magic and coincidence to move story along, the Dwarves being annoying as usual...(love Regina's eyeroll, "Dwarves are your department!") Have they ever explaine the time discrepancies on the show, such as how we can have the stories of these people but they are happing in the same time frame as our world?

[Shanna Marie]

Who is running the SB gym for Happy's workouts?

Hacking at rock with an axe all day is probably a pretty good workout.

 

And please, they have spent enough time in the real world, can they stop with the...."hero and villain," stuff? To hear a man in his 30's talking about being a hero like he is a kid is kind of weird, they should have him address his feelings of just being a "man," who is trying to protect and take care of his family and community...

That bothers me, too. When someone talks about wanting to be a hero, what it says to me is that what they really want is glory, to be seen as a hero, and that, to me, is a negative. It's the person who signs up for the military to get medals and make a name for himself rather than to defend his country. In a real war, the "hero" types tend to get others killed because they push to do outrageous things to get more glory rather than being sensible and getting the job done. So, yeah, be a man because you want to protect your home, community, and family, and if others see you as a hero, well, that's for them to decide. I can even see wanting to be the kind of man your children will look up to, wanting to be a hero in their eyes, but that's still more about living up to a certain standard. But if your goal is to earn the title of hero, then to me that's selfish because it means you're out for the glory.

[YaddaYadda]

I can understand the impulse of wanting to be more than the guy who woke the princess up though. This is how history knows him. The books have not recorded how he fought for a kingdom and cut through black knights to save his infant daughter. I get it.

 

The show just loves piling on. David, go do some volunteer work.

[DeLurker]

He used to work or volunteer at the animal shelter in S1 I think.

Edited October 13, 2015 by DeLurker

[maryle]

I like the episode overall, but I really want to take two second to emphase how two actors that I considere not enough praise by the entire fandom had really excelling in their scene.

I mean if people for once put aside their shipper google they will see that both actors put their A game in that scene. I totally bought the conflict of Hook and for Jen her acting is so natural and yet so DS manipulative.

I just love this kind of scene ! and I am sure it must been delighful for them to play this toghether as actors

[MedievalGirl]

I completely loved all the David quest stuff even though I suspected something was up with Arthur. I can buy into watching Charming have an adventure and call out Monty Python quotes at the same time. My daughter and I let out exuberant fangirl squees when he was knighted. Boxes full of magic items! Where did I put my dice. If all that is dull cheese it is exactly my brand of dull cheese. 

[Helena Dax]

This episode had a  couple of things I  didn't like, but I think it was a good one  with some great moments. Emma and Hook talking at the ship was beautiful  and  painful. Hook knows that  Gold  was able  to have some feelings for Belle and that Emma  could still have some feelings for him, but imo he also knows that he mustn't think of her as Emma anymore. If he wants to save her, he can't forget that she's the Dark One now, because the moment  he forgets, she'll start using that against him, like Rumple did. 

 

I wasn't expecting the Arthur twist. What he did to that guy was so cold. 

[YaddaYadda]

I just realized that Merida wasn't in this episode either, which really, fine by me.

[Camera One]

Even Guinevere is being very lightly used.  Mainly just stating the obvious.  "You lied to David."  So I guess she wasn't in on his plan.  Maybe the shady music they used for her last episode was a misdirect, and they're providing the "good" reason for why Guinevere prefers to be with Lancelot.  

 

Totally agree that Merida is not missed at all.  I still don't see what her point is.  Let Snow do the archery instead.

[Rumsy4]

I'm not impressed with the actress who plays Guinevere so far. I think Gwen is mainly with Arthur for the sake of "Camelot" or whatever mantra he's been feeding everyone.

Yeah--totally did not miss Merida!

[Camera One]

Wouldn't Charming think twice about taking the seat of the knight that Arthur trusts most over all the other knights in the kingdom, when he just got to Camelot the day before?  

 

To hear a man in his 30's talking about being a hero like he is a kid is kind of weird, they should have him address his feelings of just being a "man," who is trying to protect and take care of his family and community...(I can see a new viewer watching this show and rolliing their eyes...)

 

That's what I was thinking regarding how this episode made Charming seem juvenile.  The stuff seemed like it was written for Henry.  Even if he didn't want to be known as the man who woke a sleeping princess, now he wants to be known as the guy who DIDN'T get the magic mushroom and yet still got the Siege Perilous?  Huh?  It's not like he plans to stay in Camelot forever.  

[YaddaYadda]

David looked completely star struck by Arthur, so there's that to take into consideration as well.

[KAOS Agent]

I just thought it was weird that he went out to help Emma, but didn't seem all that upset when he lost the mushroom that was the last thing they needed to communicate with Merlin. Instead, he was all oh well and then joined in this knighting ceremony & celebration instead of worrying about how he just lost an important item in helping his daughter and the time slipping through their fingers with regards to Emma's very serious problem. 

[Camera One]

It felt like the writers wrote the first 10 minutes of the episode, came back to it and then kinda forgot what it was ultimately about.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

If the mushroom becomes useful in Storybrooke, then the quest would have been worth it. But I'm afraid we won't be seeing that particular MacGuffin again.

[Camera One]

They must be using that mushroom at some point, aren't they?  What kind of writer would introduce something, have the characters find it and then never use it?  Don't answer that.

[scenicbyway]

Anyone else looked closer at the scene where Charming takes the seat.  He appears to look over at Hook and Emma and neither one looks very impressed.  They are clapping but their hearts aren't in it, especially Hook.  I wonder if he's wary about Charming so eagerly trusting this king that they no nothing about or if he's ticked that there's been no progress made in helping Emma.

[Rumsy4]

Hook thought the Ball to honor the "savior" would be a waste of time. He probably felt the same way about the Round Table ceremony. Regina and Charming are busy getting kudos in Camelot while Emma is suffering.

[Camera One]

Since this episode was supposed to be all about Charming, they should have had a conversation early in the episode between Charming/Emma/Snow after they discovered the mushroom in the book.  Charming and Snow would tell Emma they want to go find the mushroom, so they can talk to Merlin in the tree.  Emma would be worried since they would be going without magic... maybe Regina could be otherwise occupied making the spell.  This would reinforce how much Snowing wants to help Emma, and Snowing can reassure Emma that they will save her, and they will be fine without a magical protector.

 

Arthur could stop Snow from going with Charming, insisting on going himself.  This could rub Snow the wrong way (though she backs off because let's say that they are worried about Arthur being angry about what happened with Percival and the secret about Regina being the Evil Queen).  Instead, Snow snoops around the castle (heck, maybe with Leroy or Granny for laughs).  They hear an odd "story" about what happened between Arthur, Guinevere and Lancelot, which Snow doesn't fully believe based on what she knows about Lancelot (this would be instead of us hearing it from Arthur).  Snow could see some suspicious things, which could lead to her finding Lancelot instead of the other way around.  

 

Meanwhile, they could show Charming suspecting that Arthur took the mushroom but he plays along to gain his trust.  So they could be playing each other in the flashbacks instead of it being one-way in both the past and the present.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Did anyone else notice the strong parallels with What Happened to Frederick? Charming goes with a Royal to a watery place to obtain something to help them, only to be dragged underwater by a mythical monster. Oh, and both quests involve armor with magical qualities. (Frederick's golden statue, the haunted ones, etc.)

[Camera One]

It does seem like a mash-up of "What Happened to Frederick", "The Tower" and "White Out".  Originality abounds.

[Rumsy4]

Hey hey hey--they're making... parallels.

[CalamityBoPeep]

Since this episode was supposed to be all about Charming, they should have had a conversation early in the episode between Charming/Emma/Snow after they discovered the mushroom in the book.  Charming and Snow would tell Emma they want to go find the mushroom, so they can talk to Merlin in the tree.  Emma would be worried since they would be going without magic... maybe Regina could be otherwise occupied making the spell.  This would reinforce how much Snowing wants to help Emma, and Snowing can reassure Emma that they will save her, and they will be fine without a magical protector.

 

Arthur could stop Snow from going with Charming, insisting on going himself.  This could rub Snow the wrong way (though she backs off because let's say that they are worried about Arthur being angry about what happened with Percival and the secret about Regina being the Evil Queen).  Instead, Snow snoops around the castle (heck, maybe with Leroy or Granny for laughs).  They hear an odd "story" about what happened between Arthur, Guinevere and Lancelot, which Snow doesn't fully believe based on what she knows about Lancelot (this would be instead of us hearing it from Arthur).  Snow could see some suspicious things, which could lead to her finding Lancelot instead of the other way around.  

 

Meanwhile, they could show Charming suspecting that Arthur took the mushroom but he plays along to gain his trust.  So they could be playing each other in the flashbacks instead of it being one-way in both the past and the present.

 

See, Show-writers!  That wasn't so hard, was it?

 

This story, Camera One, would have been more interesting than the one we got.

Edited October 14, 2015 by CalamityBoPeep

[MedievalGirl]

Another thing about Siege Perilous, the chair not this whole episode, was that it would destroy anyone who was not worthy to sit in it. If it is a real magic item it might seem that Arthur was trying to kill Charming and was surprised when he was worthy enough to survive. OTOH, the writers seem to have transferred the peril from the chair to even trying to pull Excalibur from the stone. (

[Mitch]

Since this episode was supposed to be all about Charming, they should have had a conversation early in the episode between Charming/Emma/Snow after they discovered the mushroom in the book.  Charming and Snow would tell Emma they want to go find the mushroom, so they can talk to Merlin in the tree.  Emma would be worried since they would be going without magic... maybe Regina could be otherwise occupied making the spell.  This would reinforce how much Snowing wants to help Emma, and Snowing can reassure Emma that they will save her, and they will be fine without a magical protector.

 

Arthur could stop Snow from going with Charming, insisting on going himself.  This could rub Snow the wrong way (though she backs off because let's say that they are worried about Arthur being angry about what happened with Percival and the secret about Regina being the Evil Queen).  Instead, Snow snoops around the castle (heck, maybe with Leroy or Granny for laughs).  They hear an odd "story" about what happened between Arthur, Guinevere and Lancelot, which Snow doesn't fully believe based on what she knows about Lancelot (this would be instead of us hearing it from Arthur).  Snow could see some suspicious things, which could lead to her finding Lancelot instead of the other way around.  

 

Meanwhile, they could show Charming suspecting that Arthur took the mushroom but he plays along to gain his trust.  So they could be playing each other in the flashbacks instead of it being one-way in both the past and the present.

Because, that would entail the characters actually "doing," something instead of standing around and waiting for something to fall in their lap or to be saved when Regina, Rumple or the Blue Fairy feel like doing something. It would also had interest and intrigue to the plot and really, why bother with all that?

 

I like the idea of Granny, (slugging back shots with the household staff, them getting drunk of their butts, while tough ole Granny knows how to hold her booze) helping Snow to find info...but of course, Snow would have to wake up out of her daze and form a plan. They could have skipped the Regina/Zelena snipe at each other the 8th millionth time (and Iike both of those crazy biotches) and had something like that.

 

This show has become incredibly dull, lifeless and predictable.

[Shanna Marie]

About that Zelena vs. Regina confrontation and whether they're setting up hypocritical Regina for a fall ... I wouldn't count on it. How many people are really seeing the hypocrisy in the scene? Even the recap on this site seemed to think Regina was right in what she said about Zelena playing the victim.

 

And she actually was. Zelena murdered an innocent woman, impersonated her, and got herself impregnated by her victim's husband, and now she's feeling sorry for herself for being treated like she was in the wrong and maybe not the right person to be allowed to bring up this baby. The problem is that Regina is the last person who should be allowed to say this. If it were any other character, we'd have agreed with them. If it had been Robin in this scene instead of Regina, it would have been an epic truth bomb, a victim getting the chance to confront his attacker, and he would have had every right to have a say in what happens with his child (and it would have given him a bit of a personality).

 

But Regina doesn't get to call anyone out on self pity or making herself into a victim, and she doesn't get to say anything about the lengths anyone might go to in order to have a child to herself, considering she's murdered or attempted to murder people because she wanted to bring up their children without them being in the way. I'm just not sure the show sees it that way, especially since this scene had nothing to do with the rest of the episode and seemed to exist primarily to give Regina and Zelena something to do.

 

About the knighting ceremony, etc., I'm suddenly thinking about fairy tales and folklore about the fae where the captives in a fairyland are invited to enjoy themselves at a great celebration. There's music, food and drink, and it all addles the senses so they forget about needing to go home or what their purpose was and get trapped there. David had that quest that he thought would help him find something that would allow them to communicate with Merlin and save Emma, but then he got distracted by the bromance to the point that the quest became a goal unto itself, and he didn't even seem to care that he'd failed because suddenly it was all about the bond with Arthur and heroism and the shiny. Meanwhile, Emma's in the background going, "Um, Dad? Remember me?" and Hook's going, "Seriously? Are we really wasting time with the trappings of heroism instead of actually doing something?" Even Snow wanders off.

[Mitch]

I guess my question is, why does this show do "Centrics," anyway. I can understand once in a while but how about using their characters on a consistent basis to make a coherent storyline? Its like "Oh we have to do a Charming one, lets make him go after something even if it slows down the action and does not amount to anything.  The storyline for Charming should have been going throughout this season and last..that he feels powerless to help the people he loves in the way he is used to in their freaky world...etc. Also it turns off the people who don't like the character if you have a Regina episode or a Charming episode...(they could have Zelena turn him and Happy gay so they have a long make out session and I would be bored..okay, I lie but I think Charms is as dull as dull can be.)

[Dianthus]

It occurred to me the other day that maybe Hook was also worried that DO Emma would punish him for whatever transgression it is he can't even remember by taking away the Jolly or somehow making her inaccessible to him? She knows how much the Jolly means to him and (presumably) how happy he was to get her back when he had no expectation of ever seeing her again.

[DigitalCount]

That was what I got from "sailing or swimming" too, though Colin's accent is pretty strong so it's sometimes hard to understand. At first I wondered if he was going to have to walk the plank, but that would have been too jarring and hilarious.

[daxx]

He asked if he'd be steering home or swimming home. Insinuating if she didn't give back the ship he would jump and swim back.

[kingshearte]

I thought it was hypocritical of Regina to berate Zelena for painting herself as a victim.  And I thought it a bit harsh of Regina to plan to take Zelena’s baby from her and raise it as her own.  Unless she can prove Zelena is unfit as a mother it doesn’t seem right, and is hypocritical given that Regina adopted Henry during her “evil” phase.  I would have thought Regina would have some sympathy for Zelena’s position given the similarities between them.  It would be more interesting to see a complex relationship between them that explored their similarities as well as their differences.

But that's really Regina's biggest problem: complete and utter lack of empathy. Despite the fact that, as someone above pointed out, she's absolutely right about Zelena playing the victim, I rolled my eyes so hard at Regina in this scene that they're still not quite facing front. I've been formulating some thoughts about the Regina Issue that I might get around to posting in the Regina thread at some point. but my episode-to-episode thoughts are generally something to the effect of "I can't even."

 

I was completely distracted by David demoting himself.  He’s now a Prince and one of Arthur’s knights? All of Charming’s ‘Your majesty”ing  was bugging the shit out of me when I thought they were trying to hide who they really were.  But then he starts sharing his past when bonding with Arthur and is still acting all subservient in flashbacks.

Well, strictly speaking, if they use the same hierarchy as in real life, as the consort of a queen, David is indeed a Prince, and thus Arthur, as a King, does outrank him, so a certain degree of deference would technically be appropriate. Add to that David's fanboy hero worship, and the subservient behaviour makes perfect sense.

 

"A picture up inside Zelena."

"Whoa, Mate."

Hee! Hook should also continue to always get the lines that imply something that belongs on a show that doesn't air at 8:00 on Sundays and feature Disney characters.

Too funny. Killian/Colin really does bring out the best in everyone and every scene, doesn't he? This might be the first time a sonogram has ever actually been entertaining.

[OnceUponAJen]

By confronting Zelena with some of her own past behaviors, it might have been an attempt to show that Regina did see those things in herself, and she's trying to point that out to her sister...to keep her from making the same mistakes. The problem is, we never really saw Regina have that self-realization, so it looks like she's just oblivious to her own issues.

[KingOfHearts]

 

The problem is, we never really saw Regina have that self-realization, so it looks like she's just oblivious to her own issues.

Regina is completely bias here because Zelena got herself knocked up with Robin. If she had slept with anyone else's boyfriend, I'm sure Zelena would be given more chances. That whole "second SECOND chance" thing was a downright lie. 

[Shanna Marie]

I guess my question is, why does this show do "Centrics," anyway.

I think it's the Lost DNA, along with the flashbacks -- this is the episode about this character. I don't know if it continued beyond season one of Lost because I gave up on it then, but at least in season one the reason was that there were all these people brought together on the island, and we were learning about each of the people in the past, and it made sense to parallel their past to their present. On this show, they just seem unable to really write for the ensemble. They can focus on one character at a time. Though it mostly seems to apply to the characters who seldom get the spotlight. Once a year, they remember that David and Hook are characters and not just love interests, so they throw in their annual centric episode. In David's, he goes on a quest from which he comes back empty-handed, but with a valuable lesson. In Hook's, we see some wrong in his past that he's attempting to atone in the present.

 

He asked if he'd be steering home or swimming home. Insinuating if she didn't give back the ship he would jump and swim back.

I thought he was responding to her promise to let him go if he said he didn't love her. He knows he's dealing with the Dark One, so he has to be very specific about what he agrees to because there's always a catch or loophole. So she was promising to let him go, but he was clarifying whether that meant he'd be free to sail the ship back or whether being "let go" meant she wouldn't stop him if he wanted to swim back, but the ship wasn't going anywhere. It would be a very Dark One thing (especially the Rumple version) to promise to let him go and then when Hook complained about not getting back control of the ship, he'd say, "I never promised that, but no one's stopping you from swimming home, dearie."

[Amerilla]

Lost is the most direct example, but plenty of ensemble shows have used centrics (with and without flashbacks) to highlight actors and to put different perspectives on the main story.

 

I think the regularity of centrics for Josh and Colin and Emilie - and for Lana, Jen, Ginny, Bobby, for that matter - are as much contractual as anything else. Even a moderately talented agent should be able to get a guarantee of one or two focus episodes a season.

[darkestboy]

This episode didn't really do much for me.

 

I'm starting to find the dwarves more annoying now they're getting more screen time.

 

Emma and Hook, well the latter showed some growth I guess this week.

 

Arthur being a baddie is actually a relief in a way. About time we had a male villain again.

 

I'd rather that baby with Zelena than Robin. He gets duller each episode.

 

Last scene was good, 6/10

[didia]

I really liked this episode. I'm very happy with season 5 thus far, it has potential to be the best season since season one. Of course, it's not perfect, I agree that this obsession that characters like Belle, David and Henry have to be "heroes" is weird. They are in Camelot to save Emma and try to take the darkness away, everything else is a waste of time.

 

I really like Arthur, I'm intrigued with his story, hope he doesn't die in the end of the arc. I'm interested to see what is Lancelot's story either.

I loved that scene with Hook and Emma, it was very emotional, and very well acted. Regina's scene with Zelena shows she didn't change as much as they say she did. I enjoyed to see Robin interact with Hook.

[Kimmature]

Not my favourite season before, but at least there's no Frozen.  

 

I'd hoped that Arthur might be an interesting character- I never liked the Disney version of his story.  I hope that they actually do the Arthur/Guinevere/Lancelot treatment with some subtlety, not just having Arthur be evil.  So far I can't see that he's done anything wrong- getting his squire to drink the poison was pretty hardcore, but I think that you could make a case for him just trying to get his people home.  If he'd left Charming with the Black Knights on the pond then I'd assume he's evil according to the show, but right now he could well just be trying to get his people back home.  

 

Not interested in Charming and Snow at all, but it was nice to see that someone provided necessities for the baby.  The Henry/random brunette girl was cute.  Hopefully he'll have some post-puberty angst about his world at some point- given his family experiences, he's got a bit of a right to start calling the adults in his life to account a bit for themselves, rather than being endlessly supportive.  I'd rather have seen him jump in and become the Dark One, as I think that it would have made more sense in moving the story along.  I love Lana Parrilla and Robert Carlyle, but I'm getting a bit bored with the are they good/are they bad storylines. Not their fault- it's just lazy writing.

 

 I am happy every time Hook is on screen- I think a bit less of Hook's character because he's with Emma, but Colin certainly brings it. I kind of like the few scenes of him and Robin together- an ultrasound and cell phone would actually be pretty bizarre to anyone who'd grown up thinking in terms of signal fires for communication and herbs for childbirth.  Most of the 'fairy tale' people have adjusted way too easily to 'modern life', and it's good to see even a few minutes of "WTF" between two characters. 

[satrunrose]

Despite the heavy dose of MacGuffin, I'm happy anytime Josh Dallas has stuff to do. Add in the heartbreaking Hook and Dark Emma scene and I'm a happy viewer. Speaking of, I don't blame Hook for the "I loved you" comment. I like that they aren't having him get sucked into the black hole of Belle's enabling or turn dark to be with Emma. Plus, from a story perspective, even though Emma hasn't done anything particularly bad... she has, apparently, embraced being the DO and Hook knows first hand that means no parent, citizen or saviour of the year awards are coming her way any time soon. As he said, the Dark One curse changed Rumple from a good, if cowardly, man to a guy who would murder his ex for fun. Also, the last thing Hook remembers, Emma was fighting the darkness for all she was worth, now she has clearly embraced it. It makes sense that he is trying to defeat the darkness rather than doing the "The Emma I love is still in there" angst route. 

 

 

Also, I know I was supposed to have an "Oh Noes" reaction to Arthur's Dastardly Plot to make a new Camelot in Storybrooke, but given the cool architecture, pretty clothes and repeated opportunities for musical and Monty Python references, was I the only one thinking that was an Evil Plot I could get behind?

Edited October 18, 2015 by satrunrose

[YaddaYadda]

I hope that they actually do the Arthur/Guinevere/Lancelot treatment with some subtlety, not just having Arthur be evil.  So far I can't see that he's done anything wrong- getting his squire to drink the poison was pretty hardcore, but I think that you could make a case for him just trying to get his people home.

 

 

Arthur has two things that seem to be eating away at him (aside from broken Excalibur).

 

1. He's pissed that the Nevengers lied to him about the Dark One. 

2. He said that these people have magic on their side.

 

So he feels like he is at a disadvantage which he sort of is, and he doesn't trust them, which on some level, he shouldn't since he doesn't know them anyway. Plus he owes them nothing.

[Notwisconsin]

Just a timey wimey comment. Since they can't go back in time, that means Arthur and his round table are contemporaries and the flashbacks are only from weeks earlier. Shouldn't they deal with this? Clearly Mickey's Merlin isn't this Arthur's Merlin.

[Mari]

Just a timey wimey comment. Since they can't go back in time, that means Arthur and his round table are contemporaries and the flashbacks are only from weeks earlier. Shouldn't they deal with this? Clearly Mickey's Merlin isn't this Arthur's Merlin.

Since it's a show where several characters have had unnaturally long lives due to magic (Rumple, Hook, Blue, Malcolm/Pan, Regina and every single person cursed by Regina, as well as neighboring people hither and thither for no discernable reason whatsoever), and adding in that the Arthur legends frequently mention Merlin as having a strange lifespan--everything from being ageless to living life backwards?  It's probably not something the show thinks of as an issue.  They've had much harder to explain timeline things happen on this show, before.  

[andromeda331]

I can't stop thinking of the conversation between Regina and Zelena. Yes, Regina, Zelena is the worse because

she murdered Marian, assumed her identity and got pregnant by her husband. Its not like Zelena ripped his

heart out and raped him for 28plus years.

 

It was really nice watching Charming get to do more. I even liked Robin in his scene with Hook. That

was unexpected.    

[jhlipton]

I'm very late but I tried not to go over ground that has been trod before...
 

I love how JMo is playing Dark Swan. That scene on the ship was painful, but good. But I still have trouble with Hook's "I loved you". Jane tried to explain it to me on twitter, but I feel like that's going to haunt Emma a bit when she's no longer the Dark One.

I took it to mean that he loved who Emma was. As soon as she returns, she will get all his love.
 
 

I thought Emma was going to try to use Charming to pull out Excalibur.

I thought she was going to use Hook.
 
 

Hee, ya, I really wasn't sure if you'd be disappointed or not because sometimes people don't like knowing for sure. *shrug*

I don't like it when significant pieces of information are given off-screen.
 
 

Hey, I know - let's make all the chairs the same, so that we all treat each other equally. NOW, let's add one super-special chair.

That's part of the Arthurian canon. They seem to be using the standard Morte d' Arthur / Sword in the Stone mash-up that most people are familiar with. (Speaking of SitS, wouldn't Charming know that Wart.. (err... Arthur) started as alowly squire?
 
 

I was worried about the horse when Charming jousted Grif.

 
Since it was a Camelot horse, it would be used to jousting (they used the wrong breed for a warhorse, but that's a detail...)
 

Plus, everyone knows Camelot fell and why.

It depends on which version you go by. If you by the musical (or most people's thinking), it fell due to the Lancelot-Guinevere affair. If you go by the Morte D' Arthur, it fell because Arthur refused to acknowledge his bastard son, Mordred.

[KingOfHearts]

So the Beauty and the Beast rose was a bit under-utilized. It was so iconic yet dropped after 3 episodes. It wasn't even needed to tell if Rumple was awake. Belle could have just found him missing. Did the writers really feel strongly enough about making sure Belle had sufficient reasons to go to Camelot to throw it in? Maybe they were just checking it off the BaTB list.

Waiting for Cogsworth to show up as the butler Rumple never mentioned.

Edited October 23, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

That Rose was definitely a clunker.  Maybe it will be used as a conversation piece later this arc in the Camelot flashbacks. Belle will see the petals falling and express how worried she is about Rumple back in Storybrooke.  

 

I think the visual they were going for was the Rose petals all grew back, so that would indicate to Belle that Rumple had fully recovered and was kidnapped.  If he was just gone, she wouldn't have known if he was alive or dead.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Camera One

[kingshearte]

It depends on which version you go by. If you by the musical (or most people's thinking), it fell due to the Lancelot-Guinevere affair. If you go by the Morte D' Arthur, it fell because Arthur refused to acknowledge his bastard son, Mordred.

Even in the musical, it really comes back to Mordred. Lerner & Loewe's Arthur knew there was something going on there, but basically deliberately made sure he never saw proof, because as soon as he did, he would be forced to act, and he wasn't prepared to sacrifice them to "honour," nor to throw the kingdom into the chaos that would ensue. It was Mordred who orchestrated Guin and Lance getting caught, forcing Arthur's hand.

 

All of which makes me wonder if Mordred's ever going to show up in this version, and what relationship he'll have to anyone if he does.