S05.E03: Siege Perilous

[formerlyfreedom]

A royal ball is held in Camelot, but a dark turn of events forces David and Robin to take action. Meanwhile, Regina's fortitude is tested as she tries to safeguard Emma; and back in Storybrooke, Hook attempts to bring Emma back to the light.

[Mari]

So, the dwarves are mining full time again?  And acknowledging that Dopey’s producing oxygen. Please let us have that scene where they throw tacos at Dopey’s tree.  And, Dwarves, other people insult you all the time.  So, it’s worth demanding action, now?  Huh?  And, Doc’s birthday party was “Doctoberfest?”  Bwhahah.  I’m finding the Dwarves one of the better parts of the show right now.

 

“Something I learned as the Dark One.  Your name is on something?  Hold onto it.”  That’s a pretty ominous thing.  What did they do to her in Camelot?  And the scene with Hook--I thought Morrison did a good job of making it clear she was conflicted, but still manipulating Hook, and thought it was obvious Hook was conflicted, and appreciated that he was determined not to fall into Belle’s trap of enabling.  And is Emma’s weird basement cave connected to the other tunnels?  What’s stopping people from roaming around down there and finding it?

 

So, at what point did Camelot become clued in that David was “Prince David?”  And which Camelot people haven’t we seen, yet?  Did Guinevere, Merlin . . . and all make it over, did they get left behind, or were they killed in the last six weeks?

 

And, yes David and Snow, we’ve noticed your reaction to Emma being in trouble:  Stares.  It’s not like she’s Regina, and you feel the need to leap immediately to her aid..

 

“Snuff out the light.”  “Hero.”  We’re three episodes in and I’m so very tired of those words already.  And, exactly what “light” are they planning to snuff out.  Because I’m guessing they don’t mean the kind Dopey’s using right now, which means they mean “good” of some form--and, well, that’s a stupid and impossible goal, unless they’re talking specifically about one person’s goodness.

 

You know, for someone they’re propping up as the town’s new “Savior,” Regina’s having an amazingly good time controlling other people and being extra hypocritical.  That scene with Zelena, alone, was a repudiation of most of Regina’s “redemption” arc.  It’s truly, blatantly, extra-hypocritical with burning hot hypocritical sauce and a nice compote of hypocritical for dessert.  Is there any hope the show is setting her up for a fall?  Any hope at all?

[Rosiejuliemom]

Oh Emma, no.

 

My shipper heart is broken.

[InsertWordHere]

I liked this episode. Poor David and his doomed bromance.

And Hook, that's some awesome character growth you've got going on.

[Worsel]

My thoughts during the episode:

 

Yay!  I liked seeing the dwarves doing their thing working in the mine.  Shame on Emma for stealing Happy’s axe.  “We’ve been violated!” indeed.

 

Finally a substantial scene with Snow and Charming in the police station (discussing Emma.) I thought his frustration and her reassurance were well acted.  And I liked Snow’s “In any world you are my hero.”  And overall I enjoyed seeing an episode featuring Charming, it has been a long time since he has had something interesting to do.  His facial expression when he realized he had a seat at the round table was wonderful.  Good acting.

 

Loved Rumple’s advice to Emma on extracting Excalibur: “Have you thought about kissing it out?”  Ha!

 

I thought it was hypocritical of Regina to berate Zelena for painting herself as a victim.  And I thought it a bit harsh of Regina to plan to take Zelena’s baby from her and raise it as her own.  Unless she can prove Zelena is unfit as a mother it doesn’t seem right, and is hypocritical given that Regina adopted Henry during her “evil” phase.  I would have thought Regina would have some sympathy for Zelena’s position given the similarities between them.  It would be more interesting to see a complex relationship between them that explored their similarities as well as their differences.

 

I thought the car/horse chase was kind of lame.  Seriously, a joust? 

 

Looked like Monty Python’s black knight(s) defended the toadstool.  They kept moving even after Charming cut off various body parts.  I guess “It’s just a flesh wound”.

 

I’m confused about the Jolly Roger.  I thought Hook had given it up in order to get to our world.  Suddenly there it is for Hook and Emma’s lunch date.  Where did it come from?  Did Emma bring it with when she returned to Storybrooke?  Or did she create a facsimile?

 

Wow, Arthur made a loyal subject commit suicide.  But I suppose all rulers do that when sending soldiers off to war, knowing they may die.

 

Loved seeing both Rumple and Gold in the same scene.  Too bad they can’t interact directly.

 

Colin's acting once again was superb.

 

Edited to add: and yes Arthur is behaving in a very sketchy/villainous way.  But is it because he really believes he is doing it for the good of their kingdom?  Or for more selfish reasons?

Edited October 12, 2015 by Worsel

[mjgchick]

Snow said Emma saved everyone, Hook defended his mortal enemy, Emma used Hook to get that sword for Rumple and David had a huge hard on for Arthur so of course he and Snow are going to fight over Arthur because Snow trust Lancelot more.

 

Also Sean clearly died on Power so Lancelot could rise like a Phoenix.

[Guest]

Yes, Arthur is sketchy as hell.  Probably an impostor or under some kind of mind control or something.  But that storyline is still giving me a damn headache.

 

I was completely distracted by David demoting himself.  He’s now a Prince and one of Arthur’s knights? All of Charming’s ‘Your majesty”ing  was bugging the shit out of me when I thought they were trying to hide who they really were.  But then he starts sharing his past when bonding with Arthur and is still acting all subservient in flashbacks.  It annoys me.  I don’t think that is the reason, the writers want me to think Arthur is sketchy.  But that is totally the reason I think Arthur is sketchy.

Edited October 12, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[bmoore4026]

Arthur's the bad guy!?  Oh, I like the turn of events :D  Five'll get you ten that he's the one who enchanted Merlin.

 

Guess that makes Emma Morgan Le Fey.  Though I do wish that hair was more Morgan Fairchild.  Seriously, that bun does not flatter Jennifer Morrison, at least in that Dark One outfit.

 

David got some character development.  Yaaaay!  We got to see Josh Dallas act and his sweet, sweet bod in pseudo-Medieval outfits :D.  We also got to see him wet :D :D

 

I'm guessing Lancelot is going to be Snow's spirit guide through Camelot?  I hope we get some explanation on how Cora killed him.

[Senna]

I thought Arthur seemed awfully shady in this episode, but I wasn't sure if it was intentional until the mushroom "disappeared."  I really like him as a villain, firmly convinced that he's on the side of right while doing awful things (having Grif drink the poison was cold!).  I mean, not to say the other villains weren't deluded, but at least it feels different -- Arthur has an outward sheen of righteousness.

 

And Charming got to do something!  I feel like it's been forever since we've had a Charming episode.  Even if it was kind of weird that he was all "I'm just a poor shepherd" when he's been a king.  But whatever, I was happy to have scenes with him that lasted more than two seconds.

 

Regina telling Zelena to stop acting like a victim was  .... ugggh.

 

I continue to find Dark Emma very fun to watch.  And conflicted Hook!  Ooh, the angst is sweet.

[Scovies]

 

I’m confused about the Jolly Roger.  I thought Hook had given it up in order to get to our world.  Suddenly there it is for Hook and Emma’s lunch date.  Where did it come from?  Did Emma bring it with when she returned to Storybrooke?  Or did she create a facsimile?

 

It was brought back by Ursula last season, remember?

 

I dug seeing David get something to do, and that Killian/Emma scene was brutal but beautifully acted. I wondered if they deliberately contrasted Hook's redemption arc with Regina's -- he took full responsibility for the villain he used to be while Regina was utterly tone-deaf in her "second chances" speechifying.

[AmeliaBedelia]

This one bored me. Too much Camelot and not enough Dark Swan.

 

So far, I really dislike this interpretation of Arthur. Getting a knight to poison himself is sick. The actor is also bland.

 

I did like Lancelot's appearance. The biggest surprise in that scene was that Baby Neal actually cried instead of remaining perfectly quiet in his swaddle.

 

I wanted more from the Hook/Emma scene. Until Emma coughs up some answers or Hook gets his memories back, I'm not going to get the dynamic from them that I want. Both are too guarded (understandably so) at the moment.

One positive, I actually liked Robin Hood for a minute. Putting him in scenes with Hook is a good idea. Both dudes need more friends.

[KingOfHearts]

If I could describe this episode in one word, it would be "intrigue."
 

Pros:

* Charming finally gets a good centric. I've never been too fond of him, but he was nicely heroic here.

* Snowing having a fight. Couples need conflict to be believable and they were long overdue for one.

* Captain Swan angst. This was handled well with Jennifer and Colin doing amazing acting jobs!

* Belle. I loved how she was discussing magic with Regina. She was actually almost useful!
* Lancelot reveal. This scene was awesome not only because of the Lancelot twist, but because they hit you with a double whammy - Arthur is a "villain".

* The armor/bog effects. Lovely visuals.

* The writing centering around Arthur's shadiness is brilliant. He makes such a good grey/dark character.

* The scene at the end with Emma and Rumple. I'm interested in seeing what shes plans to do.

 

Cons:

* I'm sure most will disagree, but the Charming/Arthur bromance felt forced to me. It seemed to work too well, even with Arthur's betrayal. I wish they'd give him more conversations with Hook rather than a whole new character we probably won't see again after this arc.

* Charming getting Siege Perilous. I hope that was all for show, because I don't think attempting to take a mushroom makes you the Purest of All Knights worthy of sitting on the highest throne at the Round Table.

* Grif's death. We saw in Leopold's death that his skin turned dark and he simply died. Here he poofs in a cloud that reeks of Zelena without any skin deformation whatsoever. Such a random inconsistency.

* I'm still on #TeamZelena. Regina's hypocrisy was disgusting.

 

This episode made me far more excited for the rest of 5A than last week's.

 

Is there any hope the show is setting her up for a fall?

It sure seems like it. If they were setting her up for the mother of all downfalls, then I'd tolerate this crap. But it can't be a simple flip-flop - it has to be a complete 180 that couldn't be reversed. 

 

I honestly assumed Grif's 'death' was him just being transported somewhere else. Anything that poofs makes me think of teleportation.

 

Yes. I was wondering if someone either caught the encounter or Arthur accidentally used the wrong potion. (Or was just lying to Grif about it being poison, but I don't know why he would.) If Charming discovers Grif is missing, couldn't they just use security footage to see how he died?
 

Another question I had in this episode - why aren't the heroes working to break the curse or get memories back?

Edited October 12, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[FormerMod-a1]

After Regina was outed as the (formerly) Evil Queen, the rest of the crew probably figured there was no point in hiding who they were anymore.

[mjgchick]

I don't think Lancelot is dead. I think he's like hiding in Camelot for some reason.

[Lady Calypso]

I really liked that David had a friend for once. Too bad he's now evil. But hey, David's once a season episode before he disappears into the background again! Yay! Except he didn't really do...anything. I love Josh Dallas and I do think he's the most underused main on this show. Part of me thinks he deserves way better than what they give him. I mean, we see a David/Emma photo, but we don't SEE them together. 

 

I think they're trying to make Arthur a more sympathetic villain. Which is pretty much all the villains on this show, except they're blatantly making him seem like a 'good evil' guy. 

 

I still like Emma. And all I can say, is thank fucking god Regina isn't the hero....at least, for now. I'm ok with it being Rumple. It's actually kind of neat, though. While Dark Emma is turning real Rumple good, she has evil Rumple in her ear. Almost like an angel/devil on her shoulder situation. 

 

Hi Lancelot! Thanks for making an appearance to give us information that we probably could have put together and has ended up meaningless! Now, can I assume he dies yet again? 

 

Regina....hypocritical Regina, of course. She was more mean and more evil this episode, but I feel like it's just another point to show her become the Saviour. All I'm getting is that Regina wants to kill Zelena and take the child to raise with Robin as her own. And that is just as wrong as Regina trying to put Emma under a sleeping curse so she can have Henry. Actually, it's not AS bad, but still pretty bad.

 

I actually thought Emma was using Hook to get either Robin or Regina to break into the basement and take out Excalibur, in all honesty.

I honestly assumed Grif's 'death' was him just being transported somewhere else. Anything that poofs makes me think of teleportation.

[HoodlumSheep]

Random thoughts through-out the episode:

I liked it! There was minimal Regina, Charming got some spotlight. The pacing continues to be good.

Loved the bit of the Snowing theme.

Charming finally had his mid-life crisis. Speaking of Charming, he had a zillion wardrobe changes this episode. Okay, more like 2. I'm not sure if I liked his red outfit. I've never seen him in that much red before. At least it helped him stand out more in the sword fighting scene. Did he borrow that spyglass from Hook? Lastly, poor David. He's a precious golden retriever. He's going to be heartbroken when he finds out Arthur is two-timing them.

Arthur is Shady McShady? Is there a rule in place this season that someone must die each episode?

I was happy that Colin and Sean got to share a scene. They must be happy.

That CS scene was like a punch in the gut. Hook could still read her like a book for the most part. He knew she wanted something.

I wonder what Charming's going to think when he finds a dead guy in the cell?

The only things I didn't really like are The Regina/Zelena scene because Regina is obviously a hypocrite, and Lancelot randomly showing up felt a bit jarring.

This makes 3 good episodes in a row for me. Good job Once, 5a is officially better than 4b.

Edited October 12, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Mari]

* Charming getting Siege Perilous. I hope that was all for show, because I don't think attempting to take a mushroom makes you the Purest of All Knights worthy of sitting on the highest throne at the Round Table.

 

As scheming as Arthur seems to be,Arthur giving David the Siege Perilous seat almost has to be him manipulating David.

[Panopticon]

"I don't wanna only be remembered as a man who kissed a sleeping princess awake three years ago."

 

Amen, Charming. I don't want that for you either. No wonder Josh Dallas was gushing over this episode when they shot it. I'm so delighted to have a chance to like Charming/David again.

 

I liked the picture of David/Emma in front of the cop car hanging in the station. It was adorable. I love it when daddy and daughter go crime fighting together and I would so  take a stand-alone episode that was heavy on that rather than the villain of the half season. Also, loved seeing Charming's coat of arms with the flowers that match Emma's tattoo. (Can we get an explanation of how she came to choose it? Preferably after she's free of the darkness and her father is standing there all proud and relieved?)

 

I liked Charming's knightly wardrobe.

 

I liked Charming/Arthur's "yay for peasants as kings" fist bump.

 

Charming sword fighting. Charming on a quest. David hopping into the back of his truck while it was moving to bring down (what he thought was) a bad guy. Charming actually being proactive to protect his people and his daughter. Snowing's theme music playing loudly like it did when Charming fought the black knights to shove baby Emma in the wardrobe. Yes, yes, and yes.

 

On other topics:

 

As others have said, Lana looks beautiful in that dress and I can try to focus on that rather than the nonsense falling out of Regina's mouth implying that she didn't have unlimited chances.

 

The ungrateful dwarves can suck it. If they'd been complaining about some other villain of the season I would have been sympathetic, but how much has Emma done for them versus hurt them?

 

However, the Doctoberfest goblet for Doc's birthday is made of win.

 

Hook's battle with smartphones will never not be funny. He can adjust to everything else about the realm... but not that.

 

"A picture up inside Zelena."

"Whoa, Mate."

Hee! Hook should also continue to always get the lines that imply something that belongs on a show that doesn't air at 8:00 on Sundays and feature Disney characters.

 

Emma's handwriting is not very dark-one-like.

 

I gasped out loud at Emma blinking herself into the pink dress even though I knew it was coming. Oh, the angst.

 

"I was the villain in that little drama. He was a good man trying to keep his family together." <-- Look at Hook, acknowledging that he did bad things in the past and had to change. Unlike some.

 

But how did it not occur to Belle that Hook is the one person who interacted with Rumple before the curse and would have something that touched him? This was a plot point less than three months ago in the show's timeline.

 

I enjoyed Gold's awakening, getting the hero bomb dropped on him while his evil self that he can't see is giddily amused.

 

Basically, the whole episode worked for me. And I thought the two timelines complemented each other extraordinarily well, at a season one level.

 

Happy viewer here today. :)

[OnceUponAJen]

Arthur is playing on Charming's awe for his legendary status. I knew he took that mushroom. And I'm guessing from the promo that he did get the dagger, ordered Emma not to tell anyone what happened, and cast the curse. He seems a bit power mad doesn't he?

Edited October 12, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[KingOfHearts]

Is there a rule in place this season that someone must die each episode?

Arthur's men just keep dying, don't they? First Kay, then Percival, and now Grif. Coincidence... I think not!

 

As scheming as Arthur seems to be,Arthur giving David the Siege Perilous seat almost has to be him manipulating David.

Yeah that's what I was hoping, that it was all just for show. I'm really antsy to know Arthur's true motives. Another thing - if Arthur is afraid Team Storybrooke will use magic to force them to tell the truth, why isn't he worried about himself or Guinevere? 

 

I knew he took that mushroom.

He sure took his time to save Charming from the phantom armor when he was just like ten feet away.

 

 

"I was the villain in that little drama. He was a good man trying to keep his family together." <-- Look at Hook, acknowledging that he did bad things in the past and had to change. Unlike some.

Which is why I'll always find his redemption arc believable. How do the writers write something like that, then in the exact same episode give Regina the hypocrisy speech? How is that not intentional?

Edited October 12, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Writing Wrongs]

Hook: What's that?

Robin: It's a picture from up inside Zelena.

Hook: Woah, mate.

 

I had to rewind that. LOL

[StaceyNotStacie]

I honestly assumed Grif's 'death' was him just being transported somewhere else. Anything that poofs makes me think of teleportation.

 

I wonder if there is video tape of the jail cell where they will eventually see that Arthur gave Grif the poison.  I also wonder if we've seen the last of Grif.  He poofed like Zelena and she came back.

I honestly assumed Grif's 'death' was him just being transported somewhere else. Anything that poofs makes me think of teleportation.

 

I wonder if there is video tape of the jail cell where they will eventually see that Arthur gave Grif the poison.  I also wonder if we've seen the last of Grif.  He poofed like Zelena and she came back.

[snarkastic]

Two episodes in a row Belle gets to interact with characters not named Rumpelstiltskin and suddenly my enjoyment of the character increases. Coincidence? I think not.

Why does Charming keep having unqualified people drive his truck???

[Arnella]

So King Arthur is an evil dictator, Peter Pan is an evil cult leader, and Snow White is a lousy mother with dark spots on her heart.  They don't seem interested in making Prince Charming evil so they make somewhat useless and now a sucker.  

Thank goodness Frozen was still fresh so Disney wouldn't let them do their usual number on Elsa and Anya because, deep down, they really hate story book characters.

[Randomosity]

Awesome things:

 

-The absence of Henry (aside from clapping in the background)

-Hook clapping using his hook

 

ETA: -Hook and Robin with the ultrasound

Edited October 12, 2015 by Randomosity

[Rhodri]

My enjoyment of David's time in the spotlight and all the bromance with Arthur is completely ruined knowing that Arthur was just playing him.  I suspected as soon as he gave him the Siege Perilous for essentially nothing.

[mjgchick]

The scenes where Arthur and David were basically fangirling over their wives was cute.

 

ETA: Hook's going to get his heart crushed isn't he?

Edited October 12, 2015 by mjgchick

[HoodlumSheep]

Also forgot to add in my previous post; we'll see if Swan can mold Rumple into a hero. we'll see...

[YaddaYadda]

I think they're trying to make Arthur a more sympathetic villain. Which is pretty much all the villains on this show, except they're blatantly making him seem like a 'good evil' guy.

 

 

Except that he seems to be trying to do this for his kingdom. I liked the conversation he had with David about having to make sacrifices and going through shit just to fulfill a destiny. I'm sorry, but that doesn't exactly scream "freedom of choice" or whatever. These people believe so much in these Merlin prophecies...it's like here, whose life am I going to mess up today? Let me take a look at my prophecies. Ah! Emma, born out of true love, Savior...don't pull the effin' sword out of the stone. Arthur, you'll be legendary, your wife and best friend will be banging behind your back.

 

Merlin sucks!

 

About the episode. It was good as a whole. It dragged in some parts. The whole truck chase was kind of meh. The whole knighting was kind of meh. David lives with half a heart, and seriously, what constitutes a pure heart? Lancelot wasn't pure of heart since he was coveting another man's wife. 

 

Hook calling himself a villain for what he did to Rumple pre-Dark One? Character growth, but how convenient that he gave Emma the one thing she needed to wake Gold. I don't know what I should be calling him, Gold or Rumple. This is all so confusing. 

 

I liked the Captain Swan scene overall.

 

I actually enjoyed the Robin/Hook scenes as well. The two guys who know nothing about technology staring at an ultrasound. Kind of funny, actually.

[Writing Wrongs]

I wonder how Emma is gonna turn Gold into a hero?

[Worsel]

Also forgot to add in my previous post; we'll see if Swan can mold Rumple into a hero. we'll see...

Yes I have my doubts.  Unless he is wiped so clean he has no personality, I would assume there is some pre-DO Rumple fear and cowardice that would stand in the way of heroism.  And since he has memories of the DO (and presumably him as the DO) I would think his prior desire to take revenge on those who wronged him and do evil things would also get in the way. 

[OnceUponAJen]

So, I guess Arthur got the Storybrooke curse knowledge download, because that was some great stunt truck driving.

I love how Hook described himself as the villain in the Rumple/Milah/Hook story. He really has gotten some self awareness since he met Emma. I love that he didn't let Dark One Emma play him. He knows the Dark One and Emma so well. I loved seeing the Jolly Roger. I love how Hook said he loved Emma's walls and that he was the one to break them down. Ugh, my heart!

Edited October 12, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[InsertWordHere]

I wonder how Emma is gonna turn Gold into a hero?

She's going to produce a television show with bad writing and skewed morality and figure that if she tells the audience often enough that he's good now and whitewashes all of his crimes he'll be considered a hero. Maybe she'll start calling him savior.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[mjgchick]

I'm still shocked they had Snow say that Emma saved everyone and not just Regina.

[Rumsy4]

Overall a good episode, even if not a spectacular one. Charming finally getting to voice SOMETHING about Emma turning Dark was a big moment. Maybe next time he should treat her like he and Snow do Regina, and run to her aid. At least he won't feel this guilty!

 

I didn't think much of Charming's quest in camelot. It was as blah as the Rapunzel one. However, The Siege Perilous got seriously demoted in importance, but in a way I'm glad they didn't incorporate the Holy Grail into the Camelot arc. I loved the truck jousting scene with King Arthur driving his truck! We need more moments like this! Poor Charms--he is blinded by his need to be a hero and Arthur's valor and the aura of heroism connected with the Round Table. But he already has a bro in Hook. He just needs to learn to see beyond appearances. ;-)

 

Lancelot is very much alive!! Yay.

 

The Captain Swan scene was powerful, heartbreaking, and emotional. Hook totally saw through Emma's seductions. He also admitted to being an asshole to pre-DarkOne Rumple. He has so much clarity and strength of character now. I LOVE his growth. They both looked heart-broken after that meeting. 

 

As I posted on tumblr, Dark Emma crushed Hook's heart metaphorically in her quest to "snuff out the light" just like Rumple wanted to do that literally to free himself from the Dagger. :-( The Darkness wants to be free one way or the other, and that's what seems to be driving Dark Swan's motivations. She is being played by the darkness as much as she is trying to play mindgames with the others.

 

The Hook/Robin sonogram scene was priceless! Typical pirate instinct to figure out the importance of the door in Emma's house. Hook is continuing to be proactive in saving Emma. Looks like Hook and Robin are teaming up while the others are busy with the Camelot crew.

 

Loved the scene with two Rumples and Dark Swan! Robert Carlyle seems to be enjoying himself, and doesn't look as bored as he did in S4. 

[scenicbyway]

I'm on the fence with this one.

 

Yes, Hook has progressed further on the reformed villain scale than Regina.  Sure Zelena is nuts, but Regina really just expects to take the baby and lock Z up?  Has she learned nothing?  I also thought it was odd that Hook was so mad about Emma wanting something from him, when he wanted something too--to know what is behind the door he's deemed (and just happens to be) mysterious.  Neither he or Emma got the answers they were hoping for.  I like that Hook isn't a doormat like we've seen with Belle and he knows the Dark One better than anyone, but there must be a way to get through to Emma in current state, he seems to want to work around her.

 

So is Zelena impersonating Arthur now too?  That potion he gave Grif reeked of Zelena.  What was the point of that anyway?  Does he think he's earned Charming's trust now?

 

It was nice to see the Charmings actually concerned about Emma in this one, though not enough to proactively try to talk to her, let's just leave that to Hook, Henry and Regina.  I found it odd that Charms was on a glory quest so that he wouldn't just be known as a guy who woke a princess up 30 years ago.  Really?  It's about making a name for yourself?  How about just saving your daughter...

 

My guess is that Lancelot is still seeing Guinevere, I would also bet that Arthur is the one who put Merlin in a tree.  Why else would he want the mushroom?  He doesn't want him out of the tree!

 

I also thought it was strange that Charming set off on the quest alone until Arthur stopped him to join in.  Why didn't he take Hook and Hood or maybe even Leroy?  Why go back to Neverland aka the land o' darkness alone?

[Rumsy4]

She's going to produce a television show with bad writing and skewed morality and figure that if she tells the audience often enough that he's good now and whitewashes all of his crimes he'll be considered a hero. Maybe she'll start calling him savior.

 

LMAO! 

[kennyab]

Right after it was over, I had to check the interwebs to find out if this was an Espenson episode, and it sure enough was. Can she punch up the dialogue in every episode? The characters just seem a lot less bland when they're speaking her words.

 

Yeah, Regina was uber-hypocritical, but it felt to me like that was the intention. I actually felt a (very) little bit bad for Zelena. That's a moment that Snow or Emma (non-Dark variety) would show some sympathy and maybe try to build a bridge. But after having Hook show so much insight in his conversation with Emma, I just have to think that Regina is still supposed to be a bit delusional here with Zelena.

 

My love for Charming knows no bounds. Here's hoping that his destined-to-fail bromance with Arthur will make him realize what he already has in Hook.

Edited October 12, 2015 by kennyab

[Mathius]

Robert Carlyle seems to be enjoying himself, and doesn't look as bored as he did in S4.

4B, you mean. Even when it deteriorated into the "cleave" crap, he was pretty energized in 4A.

[Chaos Theory]

I liked the episode but then I have liked all the episodes so far this season .  Even Belle has been tolerable and I am not in her hate club.  I just wish the show had written her character with a spine but I do find her dragging the bell jar around funny.  I also really like the idea of possible blank slate Rumple.  It is an interesting idea,  I honestly think this show is almost...almost back to the kind of writing  of season 1.    The ideas at least of season 1.  
​
​I am usually not a Emma/Hook shipper but I liked their scene on the boat and I thought it was really well done.  It had all the things I wanted said between them.  Yes they love each other but Emma is the Dark One and she isn't the same person that Hook fell in love with....and yes that scene between Hook and Rumple on the boat all those years ago Hook was the villain and he helped turn Rumple into a monster.
​
​I am not not very knowledgable on King Arthur but I liked what the show is doing with him and it is nice that they are finally giving David something to do and a friendship with Arthur that is sure to go very very bad is a good storyline.
​
​I am still really enjoying Dark One Emma and hope the show doesn't conclude with it any time soon.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[Guest]

Is that thing about all Knights, including Arthur, being equal at the round table except the one with the truest heart being elevated part of the original story or invention by the show?

Edited October 12, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[Panopticon]

My love for Charming knows no bounds. Here's hoping that his destined-to-fail bromance with Arthur will make him realize what he already has in Hook.

Yes, this. I don't like to see Charming made a fool of but I was a tiny bit relieved to get confirmation that Arthur isn't really his BroTP. It reminded me of that silly promo interview where Josh promised Colin that he was thinking of him the whole time Charming was bromancing with Arthur.

Speaking of budding bromances, Robin and Hook discussing their respective complicated love lives made me grateful all over again that Outlaw Queen got the hideous romantic complication with the triangle and the rape baby, if some couple had to get it. Captain Swan got sooo lucky in comparison.

[InsertWordHere]

Is that thing about all Knights, including Arthur, being equal at the round table except the one with the truest heart being elevated part of the original story or invention by the show?

According to wikipedia, the Siege Perilous is a part of the legend, but it was an empty seat reserved for the knight who would one day find the Holy Grail. This is the first I've heard of it as well. 

[Hook75]

What did Emma & Hook said after she asked him if he loves her? The music was too load, I couldn't hear a thing.

[scenicbyway]

What did Emma & Hook said after she asked him if he loves her? The music was too load, I couldn't hear a thing.

I had the same problem, it was something about steering the ship?  I think Emma was steering the ship with magic while they were having their talk, why the didn't just stay at the dock to begin with, who knows.

 

I also had trouble understand Hook in his scene with Robin, rewinding didn't help either.

I did think it was neat that the round table was built around the stone the sword was in.

[InsertWordHere]

I believe Hook asked her whether he'd be steering or swimming back. He was basically asking her if she was going to throw him overboard, I think. 

[Guest]

If Emma is trying to use Rumpel to pull the sword, she must have direct knowledge that there is some change in Arthur that he has gone from being able to pull the sword to being incapable of pulling the sword.

[thuganomics85]

Favorite episode for me easily, due to it being Charming-centric.  I always have a fondness for the fellow; even when he's being a doofus; so any episode that involves him doing more then just standing in the background or yelling "Mary Margaret!" over and over again, is good in my book.  I liked him fanboying over Camelot and Arthur, and being so happy over getting to be part of the Round Table.  Of course, it all ends up being part of Arthur's plan, because he's apparently a bad guy.  Poor Charming.

 

I kind of wondered if they were heading towards an Evil Arthur turn, since he seemed to be too good to be true.  I guess they could always end up excusing whatever his actions are because he was "protecting his kingdom", but he's coming off way too shady to me. And it sounds like Gwen is right alongside him.  But I'm really curious about the fall-out with Lancelot.  I'm guessing his disappearance/presumed death, has something to do with this.

 

Hook/Robin might have been the most I ever liked Robin, which continues to make me believe that Hook really is one of the best characters on this show.

 

I have to admit, I honestly didn't see Emma's plan coming.  She knew Hook was likely going to refuse her, but her main goal was to get her hands on the sword Rumple held before he went all Dark One on us.  And now she's revived Rumple and his heart is neither good or bad, so she's going to try and make him into a hero to pull Excalibur out.  The logic is as wonky as ever, but I'm intrigued.  Especially since this should give Robert Carlyle different things to do, even though I continue to get a kick out of the one in Emma's head.

 

Regina telling Zelena to quit making herself the victim and blaming others, as to be on purpose, right?  The show has to know Regina does that all the time?  Either way, quit making me feel bad for Zelena, show.

 

It was weird that the dwarves got that upset over Emma, considering all the other evil that has happened in Storybrooke, and they've been almost indifferent to it.  I guess they take axe-stealing very, very personal.

 

Did not know Jane Espenson wrote this, but that makes sense.  I tend to enjoy her episodes the best, because they're usually pretty straight-forward, uses the characters well, and provides decent humor.

[Mari]

ParadoxLost, I think you're right, but its also possible she thinks he could use it to scuttle her plan, and doesn't think blank Rumple could.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Mari

[Shanna Marie]

I'm glad I'm not the only one having trouble hearing dialogue. Between Hook's accent, him speaking so softly out of pain, and the soaring music, I couldn't make out half the dialogue in that pivotal scene. I shall have to rewatch. For science.

 

I'm sure most will disagree, but the Charming/Arthur bromance felt forced to me. It seemed to work too well, even with Arthur's betrayal. I wish they'd give him more conversations with Hook rather than a whole new character we probably won't see again after this arc.

They do seem to have a talent for creating these relationships that end up disappearing, rather than developing the relationships among ongoing characters. But in this case, I'm going to hope that the insta-friendship is just being set up for a fall to make the betrayal seem worse. Without all the buildup, there wouldn't be any personal stakes in finding out that Arthur was shady.
 

If Charming discovers Grif is missing, couldn't they just use security footage to see how he died?

Arthur may have figured out how to drive a truck, just by being told "speed with the feet, direction with the wheel," but how likely is it that he's figured out security cameras? Maybe that's how they learn he's shady.

 

The ungrateful dwarves can suck it. If they'd been complaining about some other villain of the season I would have been sympathetic, but how much has Emma done for them versus hurt them?

She hasn't really even done them lasting harm. And people seem to keep forgetting that she became the Dark One when she was saving all of them. Then again, these are the people who thought things were more peaceful because Snow and Charming were out of town, rather than because Regina was out of town.
 

I didn't think much of Charming's quest in camelot. It was as blah as the Rapunzel one.

You know, this was pretty much the same episode as the Rapunzel one. David goes on a quest, makes an insta-friend, learns a Valuable Lesson about himself, and comes home empty-handed but okay with that because he gained something else. And then almost the same story is repeated in the present. But at least we'll be seeing Arthur for more than this episode, unlike Rapunzel, who vanished entirely.

 

I'm going to have to rewatch because I was messing with a complicated bit of knitting that kept distracting me. I do recall thinking, "Maybe they should talk to Hook" when they were saying they needed something Rumple touched before he became the Dark One, considering they had a whole arc about how Rumple needed the heart of someone who knew him before he was the Dark One. Then that totally slipped my mind during the Emma/Hook scenes, even with Hook's whole speech about what went down between him and Rumple. I guess I was distracted by how cool it was that he admitted being the villain in that scene and then mentally contrasting that to Regina shrugging off her much worse deeds from the past. And then at the end when it turned out that the whole scene was Emma getting the info from him about his past with Rumple so she could find something that touched him, I finally remembered what I'd been saying the others should be doing. That shows how good the scene was, it had so much going on that they managed to slip the actual plot point by me.

 

But the pacing was so weird. We had the cliffhanger moment of Emma poofing into her date outfit, then we had David and Arthur's entire quest, past and present, before we got back to where we left off with Emma and Hook.