S12.E03: I Choose You

[represent]

 

Weren't Emma and Daniel the baby names Monica had chosen on Friends?

Another Emma?  I thought Emma was Ross and Rachel's daughter's name?

 

I use to love Monica and Chandler they were my favorite.

Edited October 9, 2015 by represent

[thewhiteowl]

I really enjoyed this Alex centric episode. Way to show the growth of a character while keeping him true to the character. That was excellent. I also find April to be completely in character. She has always been so totally focused on her own needs, wants and desires, not really getting that Jackson has his own. I was so glad he left. No means no, April. And I liked them as a couple but she went too far for too long and there must be a consequence or Jackson continues to be a doormat to her selfishness. He compromised when she left the first time so he's not in the wrong here IMO. I get that she took a vow and wants to honor that but did she understand the vow at all? I don't think so. Being Jackson's partner in life should be the focus, not just keeping the vow. She'll need to prove that to him if it's possible for them to go on.

For the first time in a very loooong time, Bailey was tolerable.

The sisters of Meredith bore and annoy.

[Nobodysfan]

 

The sisters of Meredith bore and annoy.

 

Yup. Both of them.

Meredith was taking long swigs from that tequila bottle.  Most moms I know would not be doing that with three small kids in the house that need a non-drunk parent to parent them.  I'm sure Ellis's diaper changes and feedings in the middle of the night would be better done without a drunk mom doing it, not to mention an actual emergency that might come up.

 

I think the show just totally falls down in depicting parents. That's why they have Meredith drinking tequila on a weeknight with the other single, non-parents in the house with no auxiliary child care.  They're trying to have it both ways - have these people be parents AND show them in whatever way they want without regard to their actually being parents.

I agree Izabella. On point. This bugs me about this show immensely.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Season5OwenHuntfan

[Happy Harpy]

It was nice to see an Alex centric episode. I assume he didn't go to Alex's because the loft (or whatever) he and Jo share looks like a studio - the bedroom isn't walled off, anyway. Which would be kind of awkward.

Oh, absolutely! I wasn't clear: I meant going to talk to Alex. I don't know why the friendship between them has been forgotten/swept under the rug. Unless I'm wrong, it's the only male friendship that has a history (four seasons at least?). The only other one, imo, was Derek/Mark.  

[windsprints]

If you're waiting to see Mer tuck kids into bed and help them do homework in the afternoons, sit down for family dinners, I'm not sure you're going to get that.

I don't expect to see that. I don't even expect to see her with the kids more than a few times a season. I do think a sentence here and there would go a long way in showing Meredith (and Callie,Arizona, Bailey,etc) are responsible parents. Its more of an issue with Meredith (for me) because she's in scenes where walls are being smashed, breakfast time, loud parties, heavy drinking (episode 1 where she didn't remember conversations) and carpools that make the missing children glaring. It comes across as them trying to reset Meredith and its failing for me because she has kids now. No person's lifestyle is the same as a parent of 3 as when they were a single person with no children.

Edited October 9, 2015 by windsprints

[Clanstarling]

That and swigging from a bottle of (presumably) Tequila. Now I'm not a drinker, but surely this kind of drinking stops being the norm when you're in your 40's (she was a late start intern wasn't she?) and have kids. At least the others were drinking wine from actual glasses (which is about the most grown up thing Maggie and Amelia did that episode).

[WhosThatGirl]

So the only character I like on this show and don't wanna punch in the face is Alex. Everyone else I really want to punch. Maybe not every episode but then the next episode I want to punch them.

Jo is so insufferable. Way to overreact about a situation that honestly never was a situation to begin with. I don't even know why the writers threw that in there. To remind us that it happened? It had nothing to do with what's going on in the show at this point. Jo wasn't pregnant, it was just a stupid thing to even bring up. I don't know why they did it, it's a non issue.

 

ETA: The baby names on friends were Emma for Ross and Rachel's daughter. Although, that was the name they stole from Monica when she said it was the one she had picked out for her future daughter. Monica and Chandler's babies were named Jack after Ross and Monica's dad and Erica after the girl the birth mother. 

Edited October 9, 2015 by WhosThatGirl

[Clanstarling]

Jo is so insufferable. Way to overreact about a situation that honestly never was a situation to begin with. I don't even know why the writers threw that in there. To remind us that it happened? It had nothing to do with what's going on in the show at this point. Jo wasn't pregnant, it was just a stupid thing to even bring up. I don't know why they did it, it's a non issue.

Particularly since, IIRC, she was the one who was hesitating about the whole committed relationship thing (at least making it official with the hospital). Actually, her insecurity is understandable enough (based on my experience, if not laid out well by the show) - but the timing of her "talk" was pretty inexcusable. Who starts a "serious" someone who's been gone all day and night, and is home to grab a few hours rest. Save the serious shit for when you're all well rested, it's not like it was an emergency and some terrible decision needed to be made (like which twin would live).

[jabbi]

I haven't watched yet, just wanted to read and see what is going on.

 

I'm really excited for an Alex episode, he is the only character I can say I like anymore.

 

I'm going to need Shonda to get her crazy on here soon and have a mass killing of some characters. There are FAR too many people on this show. The storylines are 5 seconds long per episode because there are so many characters and so many plots that there is just not enough screen time for them all. 

[izabella]

What I hated about Jo was that she started that conversation by asking Alex about having children while they were in an elevator and both of them were busy at work.  What kind of answer did she expect when she, out of the blue, threw such a big topic at him in the middle of the twins' disaster?  And then she got mad that he stumbled for an answer.  THEN she got on his case at home when she knew he only had a couple of hours to sleep before his huge, delicate surgeries.  Again, did she really expect a tender, thoughtful discussion, especially since it took her a long time of asking vague questions before she came out with the embryo report.

 

Finally, she couldn't grasp that Alex did that when it looked like his wife might not have the option of children otherwise because of chemo.  It's not like they were gung-ho trying to have kids.  They just wanted to have that option should Izzy survive her cancer and THEN they decided they wanted kids. 

 

The whole thing was a trumped-up way to insert conflict in their relationship, and I thought it was clumsy.  I also hated that they showed Jo talking to Stephanie about it before she talked to Alex, AND that they tried to make us think she was pregnant when she talked with Stephanie instead of just finding the embryo storage receipt or whatever it was. 

[Chicken Wing]

I don't expect to see that. I don't even expect to see her with the kids more than a few times a season. I do think a sentence here and there would go a long way in showing Meredith (and Callie,Arizona, Bailey,etc) are responsible parents. Its more of an issue with Meredith (for me) because she's in scenes where walls are being smashed, breakfast time, loud parties, heavy drinking (episode 1 where she didn't remember conversations) and carpools that make the missing children glaring. It comes across as them trying to reset Meredith and its failing for me because she has kids now. No person's lifestyle is the same as a parent of 3 as when they were a single person with no children.

 

Yes, this. I don't care to see any of those damn kids for more than five minutes per season. It's just distracting when we see Meredith in a situation where logically her kids should be there, and they're not, i.e., it's morning, she is in the car leaving for work, and everyone is in the car with her except the kids even though they're supposed to attend daycare at the very place she's driving to. A little throwaway line about the hiring of a nanny, who we can therefore presume also acts as chauffeur and left with the kids earlier, would do wonders to make me never have to think about those kids' whereabouts ever again.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Chicken Wing

[Deanie87]

I don't expect to see that. I don't even expect to see her with the kids more than a few times a season. I do think a sentence here and there would go a long way in showing Meredith (and Callie,Arizona, Bailey,etc) are responsible parents. Its more of an issue with Meredith (for me) because she's in scenes where walls are being smashed, breakfast time, loud parties, heavy drinking (episode 1 where she didn't remember conversations) and carpools that make the missing children glaring. It comes across as them trying to reset Meredith and its failing for me because she has kids now. No person's lifestyle is the same as a parent of 3 as when they were a single person with no children.

 

I don't mind that we never see the kids, and in fact I don't want to see them.  But since the show goes out of the way to make these kids a plot point (Callie got pregnant by Mark GASP, Derek died and Meredith was PREGNANT when it happened!!!111), it does irritate me that they don't put more effort into explaining some of these things.  Otherwise, stop having characters have more kids.  Why does Meredith need 3?  

 

As for the drinking, I am one who drank more once my son was born, at least in frequency if not in volume LOL!  He drove me to it!  But I think that I would throw up if I even smelled tequila much less chugged it from a bottle.  Of course, what's the point of having an annoying sister in law who doesn't drink, if not to take care of your kids when you are half in the bag?  

 

ETA - ChickenWing and I posted at the same time and neither of us want to see those brats anymore than we have to!  Also

 

The whole thing was a trumped-up way to insert conflict in their relationship, and I thought it was clumsy.  I also hated that they showed Jo talking to Stephanie about it before she talked to Alex, AND that they tried to make us think she was pregnant when she talked with Stephanie instead of just finding the embryo storage receipt or whatever it was.

 

I think that the whole thing was just a trumped up way to tease the promo, none of it was necessary or even coherent given what the actual plot was.  

Edited October 9, 2015 by Deanie87

[bikebrh]

I agree with Joe as far as Alex being an a-hole, but so were Christina and Izzie. This show is full of charismatic a-hole who we are asked to sympathise with. Christina watched her father bleed out in front of her, and Izzie grew up with a crazy mother in a trailer park. Merideth and Derek can both be a-holes too, but we are asked to forgive it because of sh*tty mom for her and dad killed in front of him. Sure, they are redeeming Alex now, but in the first few years he was just a charismatic jerk with nothing but charisma to recommend him. All the other characters we were asked to look past their bad behavior from the beginning.

[jabbi]

 

Yes, this. I don't care to see any of those damn kids for more than five minutes per season. It's just distracting when we see Meredith in a situation where logically her kids should be there, and they're not, i.e., it's morning, she is in the car leaving for work, and everyone is in the car with her except the kids even though they're supposed to attend daycare at the very place she's driving to. A little throwaway line about the hiring of a nanny, who we can therefore presume also acts as chauffeur and left with the kids earlier, would do wonders to make me never have to think about those kids' whereabouts ever again.

I don't need to actually SEE the kids either. There is too much implied with Mer and her brood. I would be more than happy with a line about the nanny, or keeping the noise down when they're sleeping, or needing to call the nanny to let her know your boss doubled your workload and you are staying late. She spent whole seasons not wanting to be like her mom and now her kids suddenly don't exist? The whole thing is strange.

[WhosThatGirl]

I just assume Mer's kids live in the daycare ;)

[Evie]

Yes, this. I don't care to see any of those damn kids for more than five minutes per season. It's just distracting when we see Meredith in a situation where logically her kids should be there, and they're not, i.e., it's morning, she is in the car leaving for work, and everyone is in the car with her except the kids even though they're supposed to attend daycare at the very place she's driving to. A little throwaway line about the hiring of a nanny, who we can therefore presume also acts as chauffeur and left with the kids earlier, would do wonders to make me never have to think about those kids' whereabouts ever again.

This. Mention a nanny and I wouldn't give the kids another thought even though nothing about the situation is realistic.

Speaking of the kids, Alex asking Meredith which of her kids she would let die and why shouldn't have made me laugh, but it did. I liked that whole Alex/Meredith scene after cooling on them last season.

I also laughed at Arizona's line about potential Alex babies being foul-mouthed, dirty and cute.

[GreysFan89]

Honest question, is there anyone who actually likes the whole "sisters" rubbish?

 

Or like me does it just piss of long term fans that 2 characters who only became season regulars last season are getting so much attention ahead of characters who've been around for like 5+ seasons?

 

Quite liked this episode for finally giving Alex some attention but can't help but feel that they've ticked that box now and will go back to ignoring him.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Here's Your Reminder That Grey's Anatomy's Alex Is A Bad Character
'But he's so mean and handsome!' Mmhmm.

[Kagomei]

I loved the episode!
I'm so glad we got to see a lot of Alex. It felt refreshing. He'll always be one of my favorites and watching his growth makes me so happy.
I feel very alone here because I love Meredith, really love her. Always have, always will. I thought it would be difficult to make Meredith look happy again after last season, but in my opinion the writers are doing a great job with her character. Oh, and Ellen is getting so good at being funny.
I agree with the people complaining about them not showing the kids. But I don't see that as Meredith being a bad mother, for me it's the writers that don't know how to portray good parents. It's the same with Bailey, Callie and Arizona. I'm used to it, but unlike most people I would love to see Meredith with her kids because I'm a sucker for family scenes. Yes, I know this show is not about that, but still, I just want to see those kids again. At least once.
I'm so glad there was nothing related to Owen and Amelia! It made the episode better, tbh.

 

Honest question, is there anyone who actually likes the whole "sisters" rubbish?

I see many people complaining about the sisters thing but I am enjoying it. I don't like Amelia, but because I love Meredith and I like Maggie a lot I can enjoy their scenes. This is probably an unpopular opinion, though. Oh, and I am a long term fan.
I guess I am not a "hater" when it comes to Grey's Anatomy. I like most of the characters and I care about them deeply, so I don't get as annoyed as most people here. Yes, I agree that the show used to be much better, but I accept it the way it is now and I still can enjoy it. I don't hate anyone, I only dislike two characters but even then I don't FF their scenes.

Anyway, I loved the episode and I'm enjoying this season so far.

[Pixie Chicken]

The "we wanted to be surprised" thing with the twins' parents was ridiculous. I did this with my kids, and guess what? A medical professional still checked my 20 week ultrasounds. We didn't learn the sex, but we have plenty of cute profile shots, pics of tiny feet, and the like. Instead of, "Your OB probably wouldn't have seen this," why didn't Alex say that it wasn't visible on the ultrasound, or it developed later, or some other plausible explanation?

Also, if you go into labor while your OB is on vacation, there's generally another one on call. Do top-notch hospitals in large cities really expect a high-risk mom (twins) to deliver with two pediatric doctors and an intern? I know this show has never great with the details, but that was glaring.

Another Emma? I thought Emma was Ross and Rachel's daughter's name?

It was. Ross and Rachel couldn't choose a name, Monica shared her dream baby names, Rachel loved the girl name (Emma), and Monica let her have it.

[windsprints]

Honest question, is there anyone who actually likes the whole "sisters" rubbish?

I'm sure there are many people that like them. I think every character and pairing probably have a fanbase given how many millions of people watch the show. Personally, I don't like it. I don't care for Meredith (but am finding her pretty tolerable this season so far) but I like Amelia and Maggie. The reason I don't like most of the sisters scenes isn't because of my like/dislike of any character. Its because the scenes are filler and repetitive. Its episode 3 and I've heard enough vagina discussions to last the season. If the sisters scenes were Maggie talking with Meredith & Amelia about her relationship with Richard, about being adopted or about finding a sister you didn't know you had when you're in your late 30s, I'd be all for it. Ditto for Meredith working through all the changes in her life since Derek died. Same for Amelia talking about having a hard time in relationships because all the important men in her life thus far have died. I get annoyed that minutes are ticking by while they chat about Amelia getting dressed in the car and grandma's lady parts when there are so many stories up in the air with just about every character. Pick one and give them the minutes.

I see many people complaining about the sisters thing but I am enjoying it. I don't like Amelia, but because I love Meredith and I like Maggie a lot I can enjoy their scenes. This is probably an unpopular opinion, though. Oh, and I am a long term fan.

I guess I am not a "hater" when it comes to Grey's Anatomy.

IMO, fans all have favorites and storylines they enjoy.  I don't think not enjoying a storyline makes someone a "hater". I don't care for Meredith but I'm still a fan of the show and have been since day 1.

Edited October 9, 2015 by windsprints

[Kagomei]

 

 

IMO, fans all have favorites and storylines they enjoy.  I don't think not enjoying a storyline makes someone a "hater". I don't care for Meredith but I'm still a fan of the show and have been since day 1.

I agree. I wasn't trying to imply that. I was just trying to say that I am not the kind of person who complains about storylines and characters too much and I chose the word "hater" to say it. Most of the time I try to analyze the storyline and if I really don't like it I get mad at the writers, instead of the characters. I'm sorry for not choosing the right word to explain it. I wasn't talking about anyone but me. 

[bonniejmac]

QUOTE

"Weren't Emma and Daniel the baby names Monica had chosen on Friends?"

"Another Emma? I thought Emma was Ross and Rachel's daughter's name?"

It made me think of Will & Emma on Glee, who named their son Daniel.

[Kagomei]

Can we just take a moment and appreciate this?

Alex is the epitome of character growth. I love him so much.

[Lillybee]

Re. the Alex/Arizona relationship; I am still annoyed with her for only sending Alex for resident interviews in places like Bumfuck, AZ.because she said that she didn't want to lose him. That was a big blow to his ego but thankfully he did get John Hopkins on his own.

 

April needs to know that "for better or for worse" works both ways. Her husband suffered too, when they lost their baby. April, it is not always about you,.

 

I will join the small table of those who kinda like the sisters dynamatic. Does Maggie even know that she is Mer second surprise sister.

 

Dang, it, so many surgeons really drink a lot.

[BaseOps]

I loved this episode. I think it really emphasized how much better this show works with a tighter cast and more focus. Alex has been an MVP who's been pushed to the back for years. He's been one of my favourite characters since the beginning, and it was awesome to finally get an episode where he was prominent. I love how much he's grown. I think the writing as a whole is a lot better this season; they're hitting the mark a lot more. It's actually interesting, and believable and sexy and funny. I was smiling so much during this episode. I really liked all of Alex's scenes... with Meredith, with Arizona, with Jo. 

 

Amelia is still annoying, but I'm glad Owen wasn't around. The fact that the three girls all call themselves "sisters" is so unnatural and weird. Amelia, you have 2 (or 3?) real sisters. Go play with them. Maggie got on my nerves a bit here too, they give her too many speeches. She's fun sometimes, I certainly don't hate her as much as I do Amelia, and I think the actress is fine... but the speeches need to stop. I like that she slept DeLuca. We haven't had fun awkward hookups in a while. It's a hallmark of the show. Now - bets on how long it takes for DeLuca to become a regular? 

 

I love the evolution of Meredith too. I hope we get a scene with the kids soon though, it's starting to get a bit strange; at least they have her mentioning them often, even if she is choosing which one she'd kill. I've really enjoyed her stuff with Bailey lately. I'd love to get a Meredith-centric episode soon (it, uh, is her show...). 

Edited October 10, 2015 by BaseOps

[BizBuzz]

Good morning all GA Posters!

 

Things seemed to have escalated while I was MIA handling a family situation yesterday.  ::giggle::

 

Seemed like we had a little "soap opera" commentary of our own going back and forth.  All of the offending conversation has been dealt with and I would like to post a reminder that we keep to #1) snarking on the show and characters and #2) not making things personal against other posters.

 

There are some definite strong feelings about certain characters, however, please deal with those feelings in a "nice" way.  

 

Carry on ... 

[Deanie87]

I agree with Joe as far as Alex being an a-hole, but so were Christina and Izzie. This show is full of charismatic a-hole who we are asked to sympathise with. Christina watched her father bleed out in front of her, and Izzie grew up with a crazy mother in a trailer park. Merideth and Derek can both be a-holes too, but we are asked to forgive it because of sh*tty mom for her and dad killed in front of him. Sure, they are redeeming Alex now, but in the first few years he was just a charismatic jerk with nothing but charisma to recommend him. All the other characters we were asked to look past their bad behavior from the beginning.

 

Yeah, and I think that there are plenty of times that Alex has just been an asshole because he is an asshole.  We weren't asked to sympathize with him when he ratted Addison out to the husband of the woman with the hysterectomy, we weren't asked to sympathize with him the many times he was flat out rude to George or a total dick to Izzie.  In the earlier seasons, I thought that the writers did a good job of showing some kind of motivation as to why Alex did stuff, but not necessarily asking us to excuse him for it.  He has always been the most self-aware character as well, and that goes a long way with me.  And I would rather see the motivation behind a character's actions than just having to fanwank constantly about it (see: Izzie, Derek).

 

So, I'm not really sure what kind of character development would have been better?  Just a 1 dimensional misogynistic dick constantly?  He wouldn't have lasted on the show, IMO.  Or have him turn completely into one of the "good characters" like Derek, Izzie or George, who behave just as badly or hurt people just as much, but surround themselves in such self-righteousness and "goodness" that characters actually line up to tell them that they are good people after they cheat or do other emotional damage to someone?  Alex never gets that.  He gets called out on every bad thing that he does (even if 20 people have done the exact same thing with no consequences), he only has people lining up to praise him when he actually does something good.  And even then its not every time.

 

I know that I am biased when it comes to Alex and I probably defend him more than he deserves, but I think that he has had a lot of organic character growth.  The writer/recapper doesn't like him and is right in that Alex Karev is a completely cliched character:  hot manwhore D-bag with hard luck story and secret heart of gold, especially with the babies.  But I think that Justin Chambers has done a lot with what could have been a horrible character and made him into more than just a cliche.  I'm not sure what the better alternative would have been and I certainly wouldn't call him a bad character.

[calipiano81]

The Alex/Jo issue didn't make sense to me...has the show been on so long, the writers forget what they've done before? Back at April's supposed barnhouse wedding to Matthew a couple of seasons ago, Alex pulled Jo aside and went on a spiel about how they will always have each other and how she will be a great mom and he will be a great dad. He went even so far as to go around calling Jo his fiancee, which freaked her out. Sure, he was going through a rough patch at the time over his own father, but it was obvious to me he thought Jo was marriage and family material.

I am conflicted over April/Jackson. If she had stayed after Jackson's ultimatum, she would have resented him for it, which would have hurt their marriage as well. But what would have been a compromise?

Edited October 10, 2015 by calipiano81

[John M]

I think the frustrating thing about the drunk/kids thing is there is an incredibly easy solution to this. Meredith at this point is obviously a multi-millionaire independent from her plane crash settlement and her ownership in the hospital as well as pulling down a salary into the very healthy 6 figures even before any dividends that the hospital is giving her.

 

So solution for wealthy single mother with a career that wants to drink a lot, HIRE A LIVE IN NANNY. They just have to show her once or mention the nanny in passing and this problem is solved, why won't they solve it? 

[Kagomei]

I think the frustrating thing about the drunk/kids thing is there is an incredibly easy solution to this. Meredith at this point is obviously a multi-millionaire independent from her plane crash settlement and her ownership in the hospital as well as pulling down a salary into the very healthy 6 figures even before any dividends that the hospital is giving her.

 

So solution for wealthy single mother with a career that wants to drink a lot, HIRE A LIVE IN NANNY. They just have to show her once or mention the nanny in passing and this problem is solved, why won't they solve it? 

I just assume she has one, but I agree that it would be good to see her mention it once in a while, just so we can solve this "mistery".

[jaytee1812]

The Bailey/Richard conversation about Meredith reminds me why I will forever watch any show Shonda Rhimes is involved with.

In so many other shows Richard would've gone in, fought Meredith's corner and Bailey would've realised she'd low balled Meredith and given her a better offer. On this show Bailey's offer is deliberate and yes Meredith need a confidence boost from her sisters/friends but she went in and got that better deal herself.

[Chicken Wing]

I am conflicted over April/Jackson. If she had stayed after Jackson's ultimatum, she would have resented him for it, which would have hurt their marriage as well. But what would have been a compromise?

 

That's the tricky issue here. Jackson gave her what was essentially an ultimatum - not a choice. A choice would be "You can go overseas, or you can stay here with me and work on putting our marriage back together." But what he said was "You can go, but if you do I will not be here when you come back." That's an ultimatum, a threat. But how would things have been better if she had stayed at that? Because it would have been only because her husband threatened to leave her if she didn't, and what good is that? How does that make their marriage better? Nothing is resolved, all the broken things between them would still be broken, and she would resent him for guilting her into staying and he would resent her for "choosing" him only because she had no other choice. Frankly, their marriage was broken from the moment she announced that she was going to leave for a second tour, and it would have still been broken whether she actually left or not, because right there she made it clear where he and their relationship stood with her. Even if April stayed, they should have separated anyway, because they clearly couldn't be together right now. So I'm of the mind that April leaving again was really the only thing she could do, for both of them, but she should stay away now that she's back and maybe, just maybe, she and Jackson can work their way to attending counseling to see if there is anything left between them to save and move forward. I appreciate that she still loves him and she's not ready to give up on their marriage, but she's going about it in the completely wrong way. As usual with her, everything is on her terms, what she wants, when it's convenient for her, and she's being completely selfish and insensitive to Jackson's needs - again. She left because she couldn't deal and needed her space, and Jackson let her go even though it meant he wouldn't be with her anymore afterward, but now Jackson needs his space and she won't let him alone. Leave the boy alone, woman!

Edited October 10, 2015 by Chicken Wing

[mojito]

As for the "Where are the kids?" questions.....

 

This is a television show about doctors, multiple doctors who constitute multiple families. The kids are only props when the writers are desperate for a plot twist, or when it occurs to them that many in the viewing audience need to see that characters are reproducing.  I don't need to watch the characters fill up their cars with gas, purchase groceries, or wash their cars. These characters make Grey's Anatomy when they're together, not minding or fretting about children.  Like the gas, groceries, laundry, etc., I don't care about minor details (and yes, that's what their kids are when it comes to the story) because they don't advance the plot. It's about moments in people's lives, not the complete 24 hours of every single character. I'm fine with assuming that kids are being taken care of and that people get regular dental cleanings. 

[Chicken Wing]

It's only on the very rare occasion where the presence of the kids is not only expected but necessary that their absence becomes distracting. The only times where we would be expected to see or hear about the kids is when the docs are at home, early in the morning or late at night, and we rarely have any scenes like that. And even so, with the other docs their kids typically have a range of options as to where they might be. I don't wonder where Sofia is when Callie was hanging out late at night with Mer and Amelia and Maggie, because she has another parent. When Callie's out, I can assume Sofia is with Arizona. If Arizona is out, I can assume Sofia is with Callie. When we never see Tuck in the house with Bailey and Ben, it's often explained that he's visiting with his father. And even if he's not, Tuck's like 10 years old or something. They don't really need to explain where he is because he can be out anywhere. Meredith's kids are too young to be "out" doing anything, and they *sob* don't have another parent for them to be with when they're not with her. If it's early in the morning and she's heading out for the day, or if it's late at night and she's settled in, there is nowhere else for them to be except with her - so it's glaring when we have these specific scenes and there's no explanation, implied or otherwise, as to where they are when they literally can't be anywhere else. If they (the writers) don't care to show the kids or mention them, then stop showing Meredith in home situations at times where the kids should be present or at least mentioned. Stop showing her "morning routine." I've never heard of anyone with three kids under the age of five whose morning routine somehow has nothing to do with said kids. Throw in a nanny to take the kids off her hands at these times and we're good.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Chicken Wing

[BaseOps]

It's only on the very rare occasion where the presence of the kids is not only expected but necessary that their absence becomes distracting. The only times where we would be expected to see or hear about the kids is when the docs are at home, early in the morning or late at night, and we rarely have any scenes like that. And even so, with the other docs their kids typically have a range of options as to where they might be. I don't wonder where Sofia is when Callie was hanging out late at night with Mer and Amelia and Maggie, because she has another parent. When Callie's out, I can assume Sofia is with Arizona. If Arizona is out, I can assume Sofia is with Callie. When we never see Tuck in the house with Bailey and Ben, it's often explained that he's visiting with his father. And even if he's not, Tuck's like 10 years old or something. They don't really need to explain where he is because he can be out anywhere. Meredith's kids are too young to be "out" doing anything, and they *sob* don't have another parent for them to be with when they're not with her. If it's early in the morning and she's heading out for the day, or if it's late at night and she's settled in, there is nowhere else for them to be except with her - so it's glaring when we have these specific scenes and there's no explanation, implied or otherwise, as to where they are when they literally can't be anywhere else. If they (the writers) don't care to show the kids or mention them, then stop showing Meredith in home situations at times where the kids should be present or at least mentioned. Stop showing her "morning routine." I've never heard of anyone with three kids under the age of five whose morning routine somehow has nothing to do with said kids. Throw in a nanny to take the kids off her hands at these times and we're good.

 

THIS. I'm all on board for not having to show the kids in every episode.. or even every other episode, or every few episodes... but it feels like they're going out of their way to make the absence obvious. Mornings, nights, rides to work.. and now we see Maggie bringing a guy to the house? Don't get me wrong, I've actually really really enjoyed this season so far, but this just feels like such a glaring slip-up, especially considering Derek just passed at the end of last season. All Meredith has is her kids, and we've yet to see them once. It reminds me of last season when Callie was drinking at (then) Alex's house, and Arizona showed up asking for a place to stay. Okay, writers... you nailed an awkward moment. But where the hell was their daughter? 

[Kagomei]

THIS. I'm all on board for not having to show the kids in every episode.. or even every other episode, or every few episodes... but it feels like they're going out of their way to make the absence obvious. Mornings, nights, rides to work.. and now we see Maggie bringing a guy to the house? Don't get me wrong, I've actually really really enjoyed this season so far, but this just feels like such a glaring slip-up, especially considering Derek just passed at the end of last season. All Meredith has is her kids, and we've yet to see them once. It reminds me of last season when Callie was drinking at (then) Alex's house, and Arizona showed up asking for a place to stay. Okay, writers... you nailed an awkward moment. But where the hell was their daughter? 

Oh my God! I thought I was the only one bothered by that scene. I was like "Did they just forget Sofia at the hospital? Do they even remember she exists? What the hell?!". 

[mojito]

Is it so out of the realm of possibility that these people have other friends, brothers, sisters, etc.? Do we know everything about these people's lives and their relationships outside the hospital? Or that we should? TV shows like this already require the suspension of logic, medical knowledge, any idea of how well paid these surgeons are, even the sense of time. Why, then, get bogged down on logistics?

 

I'm thinking about how silly it is that many posters are expecting these characters to be fully fleshed out....and here I am, typing a response. I keep saying to myself, "It's a stupid TV show, afterall, why am I posting, too?"

[represent]

 

Oh my God! I thought I was the only one bothered by that scene. I was like "Did they just forget Sofia at the hospital? Do they even remember she exists? What the hell?!"

 

Exactly.

 

I'm sorry but they have had many of these characters on here for years, so I do expect them to be fleshed out, I do. Instead of setting up situations just so they can act like they are trying to recapture their college days, enough. What a royal waste of time for the most part. Also, characters don't need to be on every week you can take an episode and fully devote to two of your major characters where you can fully continue to tell their story between the walls of SG as well as their home/family life outside of the hospital.  They need to learn how to rotate stories. ER did it all the time back in the day. Don't ask me where they went wrong, well they were on "forever"  so, not sure they ever went so wrong in terms of television show longevity, but I kinda stopped watching consistently after Sherri Springfield's character Susan left the first time. But up until that point they did a damn good job of telling the major character's stories outside of that hospital and they did it consistently as depressing as many of those stories were I might add.  I didn't care, cause I wasn't watching the show looking for it to make me feel all bubbly anyway. Shit, Susan and her sister's baby... boy that was hard dealing with her drug addict sister, trying to get custody of her niece and still trying kick ass in the ER. Now that was some real shit and they didn't hide the darn baby away somewhere and pretend she didn't have deal with the home stuff on a daily basis. I don't know how they did it, oh yeah, I do, they rotated stories. Then you had Benton and his son, caring for his mom and his sister giving him shit it was consistent. You had Clooney's character and his whole dead beat father,  Gloria Ruben's character with the husband who gave her HIV and all the while these characters were still at the hospital interacting, befriending, dating, arguing you name it while trying to treat patients.  Their personal lives took nothing away from the hospital interaction. Most importantly, my head wasn't spinning around 360 degrees each week, I was thoroughly entertained and not frustrated by the lack of the little things that just make sense to include in a story about a realistic character, because they included them.

 

 I don't get it with this show, they have the time they are just and always have been amateurs. Or, they do that shit where they have guest writers and that fucks with the continuity and basically the investment these writers have in the story. I have no idea, I just feel they could truly elevate this show if they wanted to but I guess maybe it wouldn't be as popular. 

 

Sometimes popularity and good quality don't go hand in hand when it comes to how well a show does.  There are a lot of shows that aren't popular, but I'll be damned if they aren't the gold standard of what good television writing should be and visa versa.

Edited October 11, 2015 by represent

[backformore]

I think the issue is more that when a woman is raising three kids on her own, AND has a demanding career, those kids tend to occupy all her time and energy when she's not at work.   It's not just this show, it's a lot of shows, that depict women as able to balance career, relationships, family, friends, without a care in the world. It has nothing to do with whether SOMEONE s feeding the kids or taking them to the dentist, it's more about their only parent being present in their lives.  

[Marni]

I also find the complete absence of children this season distracting. Beyond the practicality argument thematically it's strange. Considering that starting from the first episode and still twelve seasons later the show has consistently and sometimes tediously (S11 flashbacks) explored how deeply Ellis's choices and Meredith's relationship with her has affected Meredith. It's been both an explanatory backstory and an active force driving Meredith's story (neglected child, dark and twisty personality, becoming a surgeon, living in Ellis's shadow, relationship with Derek, Richard and Adele, medical trials, appearance of Maggie, moving back to Ellis's house etc). I don't care so much about the kids personalities but if feels incongruous to minimise Meredith's role as a mother and to not address that aspect of her life, especially considering all the recent hype about the show being Meredith story. I'd like to have some sense of that part of her life.

[kingshearte]

I loved Jackson and his attempt to be civil and reasonable and how it always devolved into rage.  He still obviously has feelings for April, but man she needs to take a giant step back.  And she needs to prove to him that she wants to fight for HIM, not just for some vows or idea of marriage.   I like Ben and Jackson's friendship as well, and I am just generally happy with all of the guys on my screen.

This. I think maybe it's something she keeps falling back on because it's an argument she knows would work on her if their roles were reversed. What she doesn't get is that the harping on the marriage and the vows almost makes it seem like the person to whom she is married and made those vows is less relevant than the vows themselves. There's a certain implication that if they weren't married, she'd be fine with just letting him go, and it's only the fact that they are married that makes her feel like they must maintain the relationship at all costs. I don't think that's actually how she feels (at least not entirely), but it does come across a bit that way sometimes.

 

I am conflicted over April/Jackson. If she had stayed after Jackson's ultimatum, she would have resented him for it, which would have hurt their marriage as well. But what would have been a compromise?

I do agree with whoever posted in response to this that the wording he used really did give her an ultimatum more than a choice, but I also kind of think that's semantics, and it's a reaction to being told "I'm leaving. Period. You don't get a say at all." I don't think for one second that there was any implication that if she stayed, it would just suddenly be all good. If she'd stayed, they would have had to to talk and work on things. Maybe they could have even taken some time a little bit apart so they could reconnect more slowly, instead of just always being in each other's space. And I think that if this field medic stuff was really important to her outside of being just a grief coping mechanism, I think she could have gone again, but later. When she first got back (from the second round, I mean), I was still rooting for them to work things out. But her absolute refusal to understand what she did to him is really making me less on board with them as a couple.

 

As for Jo and Alex... In some ways I love them, for reasons that have been mentioned here: when they have issues, they actually do talk about them, with each other. Which is part of the reason, I think, that their issues rarely extend past an episode. Funny thing: when you actually talk about your problems with your partner, they tend to get resolved much faster, particularly if you talk about them fairly soon after they come up in the first place. On the other hand, the issues they seem to get presented with often come across as very manufactured drama. And perhaps part of that is because of the relatively mature way they handle it. An issue that for most couples might involve three weeks of complaining to everyone but each other, and then two weeks of incoherent, assumption-laden yelling before the issue got resolved, for them, it takes only one episode, but it takes the whole episode, which makes it simultaneously feel like it was over too quickly and that it was blown too much out of proportion. It's a little weird, but I still think it's an improvement over most TV couples' communication and "conflict-resolution" style.

 

That said, I still rolled my eyes pretty hard at the cliché of woman drops random, out-of-the-blue question about babies (or even explicit pregnancy announcement) into man's lap and then freaks out when he needs a moment to process it before responding. I also thought Alex could have explained the frozen egg thing a bit better. If, instead of being all "Whatever, we did that, it's no big," he had explained that Izzie had wanted some eggs frozen against the very real possibility that she might never be able to have kids with him or anyone else after her surgery, and that they needed to be fertilized, and he was the obvious candidate at the time, and it had more to do with that situation than with wanting to have babies with Izzie then — or even ever—, I feel like maybe that would have saved Jo a little freaking out. But then, going back to what I said above, they would have been able to solve the issue in five minutes instead of dragging it out through the whole episode.

[Kagomei]

In regard of the kids issue I was wondering if perhaps they do shoot scenes with the kids but they don't make it to the final cut, you know? Sofia is played by twins and I remember I once saw their father saying "Hopefully they won't cut their scenes this week". I think I read this on Twitter or something. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that maybe some episodes were supposed to have the kids but then they decide to just cut those scenes because they feel like it's not necessary. I don't know, I'm just speculating here. We know that a bunch of scenes don't make it to the episodes, so it wouldn't be strange if this happened.
But I think the main problem that we all agree with is that the kids aren't shown when they are supposed to be with their parents, like when they are at home, or going to work.
I think it would be enough if they just explained quickly where the children are, for example, when Meredith was drinking with Callie and her "sisters" she could have just said "The kids finally fell asleep. Now we can talk." This simple line would show us that she takes care of her children when she's home without having to show us a scene involving kids. Same goes to Callie/Arizona.

[Deanie87]

I also find the complete absence of children this season distracting. Beyond the practicality argument thematically it's strange. Considering that starting from the first episode and still twelve seasons later the show has consistently and sometimes tediously (S11 flashbacks) explored how deeply Ellis's choices and Meredith's relationship with her has affected Meredith. It's been both an explanatory backstory and an active force driving Meredith's story (neglected child, dark and twisty personality, becoming a surgeon, living in Ellis's shadow, relationship with Derek, Richard and Adele, medical trials, appearance of Maggie, moving back to Ellis's house etc). I don't care so much about the kids personalities but if feels incongruous to minimise Meredith's role as a mother and to not address that aspect of her life, especially considering all the recent hype about the show being Meredith story. I'd like to have some sense of that part of her life.

 

Yeah, my problem is that the show wants it both ways with the kids.  They make the conception/having the kids MAJOR soapy plot points, and then don't know what to do with them.  The Mark/Callie/AZ was their story for like 2 seasons, losing Zola was a huge issue between Derek and Meredith and was even part of a cliffhanger.  The used Meredith's completely unnecessary youngest kid to wring the pathos out of Derek's death.  And then....nothing.  Which, again, is fine with me I would prefer that there were no kids on the show at all.  Contrast that with Bailey, whose pregnancy and birth was a one episode big deal (and then one more when Tuck got hurt) but for the most part, it was just a fleeting part of Bailey's storyline and didn't effect every storyline after, so I don't mind that we don't see Tuck very often.

 

s for Jo and Alex... In some ways I love them, for reasons that have been mentioned here: when they have issues, they actually do talk about them, with each other. Which is part of the reason, I think, that their issues rarely extend past an episode. Funny thing: when you actually talk about your problems with your partner, they tend to get resolved much faster, particularly if you talk about them fairly soon after they come up in the first place. On the other hand, the issues they seem to get presented with often come across as very manufactured drama. And perhaps part of that is because of the relatively mature way they handle it. An issue that for most couples might involve three weeks of complaining to everyone but each other, and then two weeks of incoherent, assumption-laden yelling before the issue got resolved, for them, it takes only one episode, but it takes the whole episode, which makes it simultaneously feel like it was over too quickly and that it was blown too much out of proportion. It's a little weird, but I still think it's an improvement over most TV couples' communication and "conflict-resolution" style.

 

 

 

I agree, I like that they have a pretty healthy relationship, all things considered, and I like that they know each other well enough to know what the underlying reasons are for their fights.  Jo knew Alex well enough to know that he was "proposing" because he was emotional about his dad and Alex knows Jo well enough to know that all of her neediness and out of the blue questions are based on her insecurity about the permanence of things in her life.  I actually love that about them.  But I still want something more and deeper for them and I have a really hard time believing that the writers can't come up with something that makes sense for them as a couple to work through.  Part of the problem is that they started as a couple so late in the series and most things have already been done before.  But I think that with their past and with stage of life difference, it isn't impossible to put a new spin on conflict between them that doesn't involve cheating or a lovechild coming out of the woodwork.  I hope there is more to come for them.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Deanie87

[DropTheSoap]

Maybe all Mer's kids, Sofia, and Tuck live in the Mer/Der dream house with a live-in nanny.

[Eolivet]

I was a bit surprised the show didn't reference the fact that Meredith was gone for a whole year as a possible explanation as to her low salary. One would think her knowledge wouldn't have been as developed, and thus as worthy of a higher salary as her peers. That her low salary would be "because you were gone and you have to earn it" as opposed to "because you didn't ask for it." It's too bad they're sort of forgetting that time happened -- I believe it would be a very organic reason not to pay Meredith as much as her colleagues.

 

I'll also join the small group that is enjoying the sisters. As a Meredith fan, I like that she's learning that family can be there for you and support you. And I like Amelia ten times better as a roommate/gal pal than whatever contrived quasi-romance they're pushing with Owen these days. In fact, can we get Owen a guy posse so those two never have to share a romantic storyline together again?

 

And I'll join the smallest group of all in not really being all that impressed with Alex this week. I think he was largely carried by the sadness of the story. While I agree that he's grown and matured from when he first started on the show, I wouldn't get carried away. I also believe the reason that the actor seldom gets big storylines is he's not that good of an actor -- or more likely, that his range is limited. He fills a role, and fills it well. To me, it was evident this week that he's a role player, but he's not a star.

[izabella]

I was a bit surprised the show didn't reference the fact that Meredith was gone for a whole year as a possible explanation as to her low salary. One would think her knowledge wouldn't have been as developed, and thus as worthy of a higher salary as her peers. That her low salary would be "because you were gone and you have to earn it" as opposed to "because you didn't ask for it." It's too bad they're sort of forgetting that time happened -- I believe it would be a very organic reason not to pay Meredith as much as her colleagues.

 

That wouldn't have worked for me.  In the real world, Arizona would have needed to take a LOT of time off after the plane crash and leg amputation, ditto for Callie recovering from her car accident, etc.  Then you add in that Bailey wanted her for the chief of whatever position and told her she was the best person for the job, so Meredith's skills were never in question in relation to the role.  Meredith just didn't think about salary and that she should get a big salary for a big job until Maggie and Callie made a "face" when looking at her contracts.

Edited October 11, 2015 by izabella

[John M]

If you're waiting to see Mer tuck kids into bed and help them do homework in the afternoons, sit down for family dinners, I'm not sure you're going to get that. It's going to be assumed that it gets done and the homework part will no doubt be done by the nanny most of the time. Meredith won't be home from work or able to go the the hospital daycare to help them with homework. The tucking in, that she may be able to do more.

 

I say this as someone that was partially raised by full-time and live in help, there is nothing wrong with that. I have a great relationship with my parents, especially my mother who never cooked or cleaned or took "traditional mother roles" besides being someone I could trust with anything and supported me unconditionally.

 

That is the thing that really bugs me personally, Meredith is destroying her house with a sledgehammer, getting drunk all the time, swamped with her career. He children were a huge storyline, multiple important storylines. I'm fine with her being somewhat disconnected to the everyday lives of her children and only getting involved with specific motherly situations but at least explain that you are not neglecting your children.

[represent]

 

I say this as someone that was partially raised by full-time and live in help, there is nothing wrong with that. I have a great relationship with my parents, especially my mother who never cooked or cleaned or took "traditional mother roles" besides being someone I could trust with anything and supported me unconditionally.

There's nothing wrong with what? I never said there was anything wrong except in one of my posts I take issue with bringing home sexual partners in a home where children are being raised and I said that in reference to Maggie's one night stand.  What you quoted from my post was me saying I don't think you're going to see "those things" if one is looking for them. I have no idea what you are referring to but it seems to me since you quoted my post that you think I'm saying that mothers have to cook and clean etc...

Because I surely don't believe that...But I do believe one needs to spend some quality time with their kids. It can't be all that good for a kid to rarely see their parents.

 

The point many of us are trying to make and I think you made, is that at least mention the nanny in dialogue, something, because it's just weird and quite insulting to a viewer like me, not to.

 

 

I was a bit surprised the show didn't reference the fact that Meredith was gone for a whole year as a possible explanation as to her low salary. One would think her knowledge wouldn't have been as developed, and thus as worthy of a higher salary as her peers. That her low salary would be "because you were gone and you have to earn it" as opposed to "because you didn't ask for it." It's too bad they're sort of forgetting that time happened -- I believe it would be a very organic reason not to pay Meredith as much as her colleagues.

 

 

Yeah but then that would contradict everything Bailey told her as to why she was offering her the position in the first place. Bailey was in over her head the first day as Chief and she turned to Meredith for a reason, because Meredith is qualified and she knew it. She just needed a lesson in I guess the politics and opening up her mouth to fight for what she rightfully earned.  Being gone for a year shouldn't matter this is not a  gov't job where you have salary steps and time served to help determine how much salary you're entitled to. Actually, that was Meredith's argument to Bailey, which was well said I might add, that Bailey came to her for help for a reason and she was successful. She came to her without notice even, and Meredith delivered, she basically called her the calm in a storm, she's steady etc...So that year of absence means nothing, she's qualified and proved it under pressure. 

Edited October 11, 2015 by represent

[Mikki503]

The problem is that the show created all these children, but then we're supposed to forget about them.  I could take a few mentions here and there that a nanny is looking them, or whatever...but we don't get that.  It's lazy writing, and I don't agree with it.  But of course, all of the writing on this show is ridiculous so why should this be any different?