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S02.E02: The Doability Doctrine


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Elizabeth takes advice from former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright and ignores President Dalton's recommendation on how to negotiate the safe return of a Sate Department employee who was kidnapped in Afghanistan. Meanwhile, Henry is having trouble persuading a student to spy for the U.S. government.

 

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Definitely not a feelgood ep.  But it was absorbing.

 

I hope Bess & Dr. Professor Captain Eye Candy remember that Stevie has to actually graduate from college BEFORE she can go to law school.  Cart before the horse, much?

 

I liked seeing Bebe rocking the pleated trousers.  I miss the nicely tailored, straight leg trou with a single pleat in the front.  It does a nice little disguise for a belly that's not still in it's teens.  No high waists, though. 

 

Nice to see Mad Albright, I love those little authentic political touches. 

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Quietly becoming one of the best shows on network tv, if not tv as a whole. I always appreciate the nuance and that Elizabeth can lose some, as in this episode even though it was horrible. Stevie, still annoying but becoming less so; I also really like the two younger kids, with only a handful of scenes their characters always shine through, maybe because the writers aren't always chasing conflict with them. And lastly I like the recurring foreign dignitaries, whenever a crisis hits it always packs more punch when we've already met the relevant PM, Foreign Minister, hot shot diplomat, etc. Can't wait for the Russian fall out.

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I liked Madeleine Albright right up until the b.s. about calling Condi for lunch. Puewww. An appearance is good, Show, driving it into the corny, corny ground is not.

 

Meanwhile, back at back-alley espionage, I hate that they've made Dr. Prof. Capt. Eye Candy go all narc, but credit to him for not sinking beneath a rock, albeit it was far too convenient to have the remaining student/spy be okay because of the crumbling Russian political infrastructure. Oh well, DPCEC looked great doing it, which is all I really need to see here, anyway.

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Not satisfied with Russel, the President appoints another jackhole who, despite his inferior position will get to interrupt Elizabeth when she is trying to speak, and generally act like a dick.

 

Hubby is so proud of his religious, moral and ethical superiority but is willing to use extortion and blackmail to turn a bright young student into a foreign asset.

 

And how are foreign assets treated by the state?  They are routinely manipulated, lied to for years and years, and in the end betrayed, abandoned and left to die.

 

The Russians execute (good word for it) a political coup, and the man most likely responsible gets promises of special treatment for his family.

 

Meanwhile, Elizabeth continues to be treated with distain by the men in the administration, which is OK, because, let's face it, she isn't a man.

 

And Stevie, who dropped out of college and has spent the time since being a total screw-up in every avenue of endeavor, suddenly decides she's going to become a lawyer.  Presumably to work for needy, poor people because her level of representation is all those people really deserve.

 

This is the most believable episode of the show since it began.

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Nice to see Mad Albright, I love those little authentic political touches.

 

See, I usually hate these little stunt casting moments for the most part, but at least this one played into the story and was painless (Good Wife as done the same thing with political types). 

 

Did like that Russell actually sided with Bess for once, and it rang true because he was in favor of making the deal with the kidnappers for practical reasons.

 

Overall, another good episode.

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I liked Madeleine Albright right up until the b.s. about calling Condi for lunch. Puewww. An appearance is good, Show, driving it into the corny, corny ground is not.

Even though Condi's in the club as a female Secretary of State, I had the same reaction.  Hey, Secretary Albright, how about calling Hillary instead, eh?  You know, your former boss's wife, currently running for the top job?  She could talk about that goddamn Iran deal and explain it so everyone can understand it.  

 

I wanted Bess to quit after the president let those Afghans die.  That was wrong on so many levels and it's obviously going to come back to bite that administration in the butt big time.  

 

Loved seeing Michael del Negro as something other than a wrecked, wretched pretty boy like Michael on Scandal.  The lieutenant colonel was profoundly wrecked by his service in the wars, not by any self-destructive internal demons.  

Edited by 33kaitykaity
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I still looovveeee this show but a few things are bugging me this season and I hope it doesn't hurt the show for me.

 

This about face with the president and her seemed to come out of nowhere. He wouldn't even ask his Secretary of State about a national security adviser. Based on the show last year I don't buy it. It's manufactured drama but to get that drama the writers had to ignore and change a good relationship.

 

Also, the husband now being a handler or whatever. Ugh. I really, really don't like it. Must everyone in the family be in the government and be a spy. I liked him better on the outside and focusing on the family.

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Loved seeing Michael del Negro as something other than a wrecked, wretched pretty boy like Michael on Scandal.  The lieutenant colonel was profoundly wrecked by his service in the wars, not by any self-destructive internal demons.

He's always Bram from The West Wing for me. He must be pretty used to fake White House sets by now.

Also the guy who plays Craig Sterling the NSA guy was also in The West WestWing, as was the guy who plays Russell.

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He's always Bram from The West Wing for me. He must be pretty used to fake White House sets by now.

Also the guy who plays Craig Sterling the NSA guy was also in The West WestWing, as was the guy who plays Russell.

Kind of like watching reruns of Murder, She Wrote, In the Heat of the Night, The Love Boat, Fantasy Island -- all of the same guest actors made the rounds on those shows, too.  

 

I'll have to check out some Bram clips. I never got into the West Wing for some reason.  Maybe I should do a binge-watch sometime.  

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I loved the episode. I wanted Elizabeth to quit (because I was so angry on her behalf) but that would have ruined the premise of the show, so it wouldn't have worked. I did think it was ridiculous that the President and Chief of Staff hadn't immediately passed on information they had about the Russian president to the Secretary of State.  Even if you're keeping that information close, the Secretary of State should have known it.  

 

I like the kids. Even Stevie is okay.  I hope she and Harrison are done though; I don't like that plot. 

 

Usually I hate stunt casting, but Albright didn't feel like a stunt.  It worked in the context of the show.

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I'll have to check out some Bram clips. I never got into the West Wing for some reason.  Maybe I should do a binge-watch sometime.  

You should.  I watched all 7 seasons on Netflix this summer and absolutely fell in love with it.  

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Too bad more aimless kids don't consider dropping out of college and going to law school!  Pffft.  Step back in line, stupid.

 

I could live without guest appearances from Madeleine Albright, but she had such an obvious hoot doing it, I don't begrudge her.

 

I, too, expected Elizabeth to do more than swallow hard and soldier on after the three Afghanis were abandoned, but I suppose the SoS is privy to similar atrocities occurring all the time.  Each person television character Elizabeth has managed to snatch from the jaws of death, for example.

 

Quite the dip into deep dark places to be showing the front end and the back end of "asset recruitment."  I have the troubling thought that this was not a good message, in general.

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Good episode, but I would have loved to see the conversation between Prof. Cap. Eye Candy and the First Son.

Um, Stevie, taking the LSAT is fine, but there's this little matter of having an undergraduate degree....?

I wish Prof. Cap. Eye Candy (PCEC) had stuck to his guns about not recruting anyone. Felt bad for the Russian guy.

Not sure what Elizabeth did to piss of the Prez, but he really has it in for her for some reason. Hate the new guy.

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Even though Condi's in the club as a female Secretary of State, I had the same reaction.  Hey, Secretary Albright, how about calling Hillary instead, eh?  You know, your former boss's wife, currently running for the top job?  She could talk about that goddamn Iran deal and explain it so everyone can understand it.    

 

I think this is what TVTropes calls the Celebrity Paradox. The Clinton and George W. Bush presidencies exist in this universe (because Madeleine Albright and Condi Rice were previous Secretaries of State), but the current president is Conrad Dalton. Which would imply that President Dalton defeated Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primary (or Hillary never ran) and therefore Hillary was never the Secretary of State.

 

Or I suppose it's possible that President Obama only served one term before being succeeded by President Dalton who was the director of the CIA for 12 years before (instead of all the real people who actually had that job).

 

I wonder if anybody in the show universe has ever watched Deadwood...

 

I've never minded Stevie because even though she's a screw-up who makes bad decisions, it's clear that we're supposed to think she's a screw-up who makes bad decisions. The show doesn't constantly have people telling us how wonderful and beautiful and brave Stevie is. When she dates her much older boss who is technically an employee of her mom, Madam Secretary and Col. Arm Candy act appropriately horrified. Stevie's not getting a pass from the show, and we've all known a few people like her in real life.

 

The President leaving those men to their deaths was brutal, but it also felt appropriate to the tone of this show. This is also the show where the US made a nuclear deal with Iran while knowing that a group of Iranian fanatics were going to stone a gay man to death. Like others, I also predict that's going to come back to bite them on the ass. I'm going to say that one of the Afghan men survived, was captured by the Taliban, and ended up switching to their side when he realized the US had betrayed him.

 

On the one hand, I'm glad that Tim Daly gets something to do besides play domestic because he's a capable actor who deserves meaty roles. On the other hand, him being an NSA recruiter is ludicrous, and nothing the show says is ever going to convince me otherwise. Oh well.

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On the one hand, I'm glad that Tim Daly gets something to do besides play domestic because he's a capable actor who deserves meaty roles. On the other hand, him being an NSA recruiter is ludicrous, and nothing the show says is ever going to convince me otherwise. Oh well.

 

I'm here.  I feel like it is such a plot contrivance and that even if he were a super recruiter, there is no way they would let the spouse of the SoS have such a sensitive role.  If he were ever found out, it would have such blowback onto her and make the US look ridiculous.  However, I like Tim's acting and I like seeing Jill Hennessey back on tv, so I don't completely hate the storyline.

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I love this show I know they are trying to tone down annoying Stevie. Not working for me she still bugs the living hell out if me. The dinner conversation bugged me yes she may be an adult technically, but she lives at home, eats at home and they pay for her schooling. A little more respect for her parents is way overdue!

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...she lives at home, eats at home and they pay for her schooling. A little more respect for her parents is way overdue!

 

I agree, but I think a chemical analysis of the hair from her hairbrush was a gross invasion of her privacy.

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I agree, but I think a chemical analysis of the hair from her hairbrush was a gross invasion of her privacy.

 

I don't know if I agree.  She brought heroin into the family home where she lives with not only her parents but her teenaged brother and sister.  Personally, I think once you do that all bets are off regarding your privacy.

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I don't know if I agree. She brought heroin into the family home where she lives with not only her parents but her teenaged brother and sister. Personally, I think once you do that all bets are off regarding your privacy.

Except she didn't take it into their home. They were all in s safe house and she had no other choice.

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Except she didn't take it into their home. They were all in s safe house and she had no other choice.

 

I don't remember that part clearly; are you saying she disposed of it at the safe house?  I thought she brought it home and gave it to her dad, and that's what they used to test it.  

 

If she disposed of it, that's different; but if she brought it home, even if she felt she had no choice, that's a different story to me.

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I don't think Stevie is intending to go to law school now. I think she just needed to do something that would put her on the right track, that she knew she would be good at.

Agreed, in fact you need to have taken and passed the LSAT before you graduate, if you intend to immediately go to law school.  Which means late Junior year or senior year.  But in this world, isn't she barely a sophomore?  I think she was at Georgetown in the beginning of the first season, but not too far into whatever program.  

 

I think canoodling with a drug user takes some of her expectation of privacy off the table.  Obviously she felt she couldn't handle it herself, so she turned to daddy to solve her problem.  Underscores her immaturity and inability to BE an actual adult.  When you can walk the walk, then you can talk the talk.  Until then, you still sit at the kid's table, sweetie! 

Edited by leighdear
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I thought she brought it home

 

That is correct.  She stated to her parents that she had a packet of heroin in her pants and that it was from the boyfriend.

 

I'm going to say that one of the Afghan men survived, was captured by the Taliban, and ended up switching to their side when he realized the US had betrayed him.

 

That was exactly what I thought.  If word gets out about the betrayal, that administration would never ever get another Afghan to help them.  Especially since it was rather obvious that the SEALS on scene had a numerical and armament advantage and could probably have effected a rescue.  But it did make for a very tense, difficult situation and excellent tv.

Edited by Dowel Jones
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That is correct. She stated to her parents that she had a packet of heroin in her pants and that it was from the boyfriend.

They weren't at home though. Stevie's taken directly from the hotel room to a safe house, or somewhere in the White House. She had no opportunity to dispose of it.

I think telling her dad was the smart thing.

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I don't remember that part clearly; are you saying she disposed of it at the safe house?  I thought she brought it home and gave it to her dad, and that's what they used to test it.  

 

If she disposed of it, that's different; but if she brought it home, even if she felt she had no choice, that's a different story to me.

As jaytee mentioned, she did not bring it home. She had literally just discovered it when Secret Service or whoever it was came to the hotel room and took them both to some safe place. Even if that safe place had been home - which I don't think it was - she had absolutely no opportunity to dispose of it and at the first opportunity, she told her father what had happened. I really don't see what else she could have done, other than keep it a secret from her parents and potentially get into much worse trouble later on.

As for her parents testing her hair, that seems pretty unnecessary to me. If Stevie was using, the last thing she would have done was willingly/freely tell her parents and give them the heroin. And once her parents had tested her hair, it also seemed unnecessary for them to tell her.

 

Also, the LSAT thing didn't make a whole lot of sense to me - she must have been planning it for a while, since you have to book the LSAT well in advance and study and everything, and yet they made it sound like a very recent decision.

Edited by secnarf
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She brought heroin into the family home where she lives with not only her parents but her teenaged brother and sister.  Personally, I think once you do that all bets are off regarding your privacy.

 

Stevie:  "Dad, just as I discovered heroin in my BF's jacket, the secret service guys bust in, grabbed me, and dragged me to this safe-house.  I'm turning to you for sage advice and help in dealing with the situation seeing as I don't want to screw up and embarass Mom, and the President, who is, you know, the BF's dad..."

 

Dad: "Ok, Stevie, but first, just pee in this cup..."

 

Doesn't seem right, somehow.

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It seems that the President and his staff have thrown Elizabeth under the bus.  Would a non-tv show Secretary of State not resign after this?

 

Also Stevie appearing to get her act together is too pat for this show. Any bets that her little fling with the President's druggie son results in a pregnancy?  

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They have bathrooms with flushing toilets in safe houses.  

 

I don't see how talking to her father about it before flushing it is somehow more irresponsible than flushing it first and discussing it after.

 

And I'm betting without cameras.  

 

I certainly wouldn't bet on that!

 

I think leaving the Afghan allies to their deaths was like killing puppies.

 

And you know some day soon, the new NSA guy will wake up in the night to find one of those Afghans standing over his bed with a Walther, like Richard Burton in The Wild Geese.

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The didn't search her going into the safe house, so it's a good bet they wouldn't search her leaving it.   A smart teenage daughter waits to get rid of it down a sewer grate, and never.ever.ever tells her father.  Or mother.  And immediately breaks up with druggie dude.  For good.  

 

And yes, I know it had to play out the way it did for the plot.  

Edited by leighdear
  • Love 3
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It was weird how much second-hand embarrassment could be packed in one episode.

 

Henry trying to recruit Dmitri? It was awkward and cringe-worthy on so many levels. And Henry being totally fine with blackmailing Dmitri with his sister's health to recruit him but the sexual orientation of the other Russian student is a no-no. For some reason.

 

(Oh, and the writers failed at everything Russian once again. I'm pretty sure "Talia" is not actually a Russian name. Or any nickname formed from the name "Natalia" (it'd be Natasha or Tata).

 

Elizabeth a meeting Madeleine Albright was as cringy, especially in the part where Elizabeth was whining to her about her being removed from Teacher's Pet role. I'd rather Albright would meet with some actual real life political figure.

 

Henry and Harrison "talk" was blissfully off-screen. As mostly everything Stevie was up to this episode. Thank you, writers, this silence was golden. BTW, Stevie decided to be a lawyer? lolwut But at least we got a nice the McCords family scene out of it.

 

It seems that The New Guy is there to replace Elizabeth's tension with Russel. Eh, whatever. I like Russel but The New Guy is so comically one-dimensional, it's not even registering when Elizabeth is self-righteous at him.

 

I liked the potential implications of the Russian "coupe" and Gorev's involvement (or not) in it.

 

The Afghan contractors being desperate and then betrayed by the US government was refreshingly grim and complex. It was a really strong point of the entire episode for me. I see that Elizabeth started to feel disillusioned with POTUS and the administration.

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Also, the husband now being a handler or whatever. Ugh. I really, really don't like it. Must everyone in the family be in the government and be a spy. I liked him better on the outside and focusing on the family.

Well, come on. What else is a fighter pilot/war hero/former spy/theologian/college professor/political husband SUPPOSED to do?  He needs to keep busy!

 

You know I've been wondering if he might have also been a track star, fraternity chapter president, and leader of the debate team too in his college days. 

Perhaps he's even an ex-Olympian too (that would go with him being a track star too if they did that!)

I also wonder how many books he's written.

  • Love 2
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Quietly becoming one of the best shows on network tv, if not tv as a whole. I always appreciate the nuance and that Elizabeth can lose some, as in this episode even though it was horrible. Stevie, still annoying but becoming less so; I also really like the two younger kids, with only a handful of scenes their characters always shine through, maybe because the writers aren't always chasing conflict with them. And lastly I like the recurring foreign dignitaries, whenever a crisis hits it always packs more punch when we've already met the relevant PM, Foreign Minister, hot shot diplomat, etc. Can't wait for the Russian fall out.

I said exactly this to a friend today. I look forward to this show every week. I enjoy how their marriage is portrayed - they TALK - and that everything doesn't always turn out right in the end. I didn't like that they left the Afghan helpers, but I can recognize that there was a bigger picture that had to be considered. If they had gotten shot down, then half the country would have complained about losing service members trying to save people who aren't even US citizens.  (Not saying they are right - just saying each choice had its own pros and cons.)

 

I continue to adore Bess's nickname of Noodle for the middle child (which is good, since I have no idea what her name is). I liked the dinner discussion - stick and all - and is it *possible* that Stevie is growing up???

 

I, too, interpreted that Stevie took the LSAT just to take it - that she needed a confidence boost because she knows her strength is standardized tests. I didn't necessarily think that meant she was headed to law school right away. (I have zero memory of how far along in college she was.)

 

I even liked the part with the Russian diplomat asking them to keep an eye on his daughter. Remind me - was that the same Russian who demanded Joe Hackett give his daughter an A? (Or am I the only one who didn't realize immediately that's who it was...?)

 

Loved seeing Michael del Negro as something other than a wrecked, wretched pretty boy like Michael on Scandal.  The lieutenant colonel was profoundly wrecked by his service in the wars, not by any self-destructive internal demons.  

Bram!

I've never minded Stevie because even though she's a screw-up who makes bad decisions, it's clear that we're supposed to think she's a screw-up who makes bad decisions. The show doesn't constantly have people telling us how wonderful and beautiful and brave Stevie is. When she dates her much older boss who is technically an employee of her mom, Madam Secretary and Col. Arm Candy act appropriately horrified. Stevie's not getting a pass from the show, and we've all known a few people like her in real life.

Seconded.

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If they had gotten shot down, then half the country would have complained about losing service members trying to save people who aren't even US citizens.  (Not saying they are right - just saying each choice had its own pros and cons.)

 

If the administration doesn't want members of the armed forces being shot down on foreign soil, then they shouldn't SEND them onto foreign soil.

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I loved the episode. I wanted Elizabeth to quit (because I was so angry on her behalf) but that would have ruined the premise of the show, so it wouldn't have worked.

 

I think they are setting up Madam Secretary to be so angry and deliberately isolated that she feels like she has to challenge the President. Besides, don't they keep telling us that her ratings are higher than his (rightly imo)?

 

They weren't at home though. Stevie's taken directly from the hotel room to a safe house, or somewhere in the White House. She had no opportunity to dispose of it.

I think telling her dad was the smart thing.

 

Agreed. Stevie has to get points for doing the right thing. Disposing it in a drainer somewhere only delays the real problem here and it feels like she, at least, is trying to deal with it head on. Spontaneously writing a test though? For those in the know, can you register and write it on the same day? Can you pass it without a bit of brushing up with the studies?

 

If the administration doesn't want members of the armed forces being shot down on foreign soil, then they shouldn't SEND them onto foreign soil.

 

Agreed. The President might have had his reasons, but Elizabeth laid out her reasons (armed to the teeth, enough numbers, well trained after all) why they were competent to rescue those guys. The President simply wanted to sideline Madam Secretary, if he had been so inclined, listening to Elizabeth had little downside even if thing had gone haywire. There was enough political cover there.

  • Love 2
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I keep wondering if this show will address the fact that the United States hasn't had more than a 1 term Secretary of State since George Shultz (and then not another one since Dean Rusk, back in the Kennedy/LBJ days).

 

Given that this show has the odd scenario of a Sec. of State coming in during the middle of a Presidential term, in a way it will be fairly unprecedented if they show one sticking around on both sides of an election.

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I think they are setting up Madam Secretary to be so angry and deliberately isolated that she feels like she has to challenge the President. Besides, don't they keep telling us that her ratings are higher than his (rightly imo).

And I thought when the president told her to "use my office" followed by Elizabeth having a look and a pause, that they were signaling a possible next season run for president by her.

I'm going to say that one of the Afghan men survived, was captured by the Taliban, and ended up switching to their side when he realized the US had betrayed him.

I sure hope not. I thought that by having the spokesperson not!terrorist kidnapper say that he accepted imprisonment in a US prison that they were making the ultimate abandonment of the 3 to certain death not such a bad deal--this being a prime time CBS show. Maybe they could even spin them as heroes so their families could get money. But captured? That's too Homeland for me--a show which I have abandoned this season for its unrelenting grim, dark tales of woe.
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Re: The LSAT,

 

I applied for law school 15 years ago. I fit Elizabeth's description of taking the LSAT as a forms of an "identity crisis". I was beginning my final year in university and would earn a degree in Psychology. In angst-filled bout of panic ("WTH am I going to do with a psych degree?!?!?"), I decided to go to law school. I took out a couple of practice manuals from the public libraries, studied them while watching figure skating on tv, and took the test a couple weeks later. And, now, ta-da! I'm a lawyer. 

 

IIRC, the LSAT isn't a true standardized test. You can't just take them without studying. 

  • Love 1
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Yeah, was thinking the same about the LSAT. The logic section takes a lot of very smart people some practice to get the hang of; they're puzzles requiring a specific approach. So taking them without a clue how she'd do actually seemed irresponsible? I mean I guess as the SoS' daughter mediocre or bad test scores might not actual affect her school or scholarship options, but I was rolling my eyes pretty hard.

Edited by innocuouspuff
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I'm on to season 2 with my rewatch and I'm still not liking this episode any better than I liked it the first time around. It's got be one of my least favorites if not my least favorite because so much is awkward and weird. And I don't even mind how it went for Bess at the end with the Afghan contractors, I actually liked that there was a small set-back for her. Doesn't mean that I think it was the right decision but everything else bothered me far more.

 

On ‎13‎.‎10‎.‎2015 at 2:10 AM, CooperTV said:

Henry trying to recruit Dmitri? It was awkward and cringe-worthy on so many levels. And Henry being totally fine with blackmailing Dmitri with his sister's health to recruit him but the sexual orientation of the other Russian student is a no-no. For some reason.

To be fair, it wasn't just the sexual orientation but also that Henry felt that he would deny being gay and that he would never betray his country/was too unpredictable.

What struck me this time around is that back in S1 when Bess asked Henry to give Olga the A so they could save a life, Henry was all righteous and went into this rant about his integrity and now, when he has the idea and isn't asked - begged, practically - by his wife to save a life, then he has no problem to use the life of an innocent, sick person for his cause. He even has the idea and it's all good. No questionable integrity, no moral dilemma.  And you can't even really argue patriotism because the man Bess wanted to save in S1 was a CIA operative, so he was a patriot, too, and was serving his country. Sometimes I really have trouble understanding how we, as the viewer, are supposed to understand Henry and be on Henry's side (because that is usually where you want the viewers on, I would assume, on the side of the protagonists).

  • Love 2
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After Henry took the job with the Defense department, he was required to work with DIA, but he did not want to be a spy or handler. He helped to profile a perfect candidate for the Russian military intrusion, but he was conflicted over the assignment from the beginning. The original candidate the DIA selected was chosen because of his sexual orientation and not for the right reason which Henry was totally against from the start. The story about the two Russian soldiers was used to show the dark side of intelligence work which consequences Henry was not prepared to handle. Henry was not responsible for any deaths. Dalton is the one who blinked and caused the eventual “Greater Good" outcome that hurt Dmitri. 

Edited by VinceW
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