Episode Discussion: TFGH

[Francie]

From jsbt in the history thread:

 

 

 

I've felt that way for a while, and I feel terrible about it. I feel Ron and co. brought GH back to a lot of its pre-Guza heart, at least early on, and brought back characters and families and traditions (the Nurses Ball, cheesiness and all) that I'd given up on seeing featured ever again. But oh my God, the day to day quality of dialogue and character has plummeted. It wasn't as bad before the OLTL feud began in 2013, but it was still a sharp drop.

 

First, co-sign.

 

Second, while some of the dialogue writers (Scott Sickles, you have a permanent mark on you for this) are all about the quip and the haha and couldn't give one fuck about characterization, some of the other writers (I'm thinking Kate Hall) are put in impossible situations.  Largely because the characters themselves are in impossible situations.

 

I mean, how do you make Dante believably decide to cheat on his wife in the course of a single night, spread over 2 or 3 episodes? There's no good dialogue for that, so no matter what they have him say, it's going to ring false and sound flat.

 

How do you write a tearful, heart-tugging reunion with Laura and Lucky when it's not even in the outline that they speak to each other than a 'hi, how are ya'?!

 

If you're tasked with a script that asks you to make Kiki sympathetic when she's completely disregarded the feelings of her brother boyfriends for years, ping ponging in between them and getting indignant with them for not being truthful to her, how do you even begin to go about that?

 

How do you write Anna believably finding Sloane annoying and practically repulsive, but then allowing him be her escort to the nurses ball and then her lover?

 

If you're given a script with Liz or Nik, how do you make what they're doing even remotely understandable?

 

And, no, alcohol and REASONS aren't the cure-alls for all these character 180's.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Francie

[dubbel zout]

I'm sure Joss is just stuffed with corn anyway.

 

I wouldn't put it past Ron to use this as his explanation.

[ulkis]

And I think it speaks volumes about the horribleness of this stupid fucking show that we are talking about this instead of TFGH. Even Lucky showing up hasn't done anything for me, everything else is just that bad.

I am so disgusted with Dante's behavior, it's beyond out of character for him to sleep with his wife's cousin. And stupid stupid Valerie makes me sick with her tears and hand-wringing when she's the one who started this mess by running to Dante after eavesdropping on a private conversation. Why didn't she talk to Lulu first if she was so concerned?

 

Yeah. She keeps saying "oh maybe she's not cheating." Well, then, why was her demeanor so reluctant when she told Dante Lulu was keeping a secret? What else did she think the secret could be? That Dillon and Lulu were planning his surprise party at an Olive Garden? Starting a gang of assassins? Planning to commit tax fraud?

 

Ooor she could have told Nikolas as well, in addition to Dante.

 

I actually don't think they are writing Valerie with bad intentions. But she looks passive-aggressive in the extreme.

Edited July 7, 2015 by ulkis

[TeeVee329]

Previews...hey, who's that Asian guy talking to Patrick?  And that blonde dude, do we know him?

[dubbel zout]

I actually don't think they are writing Valerie with bad intentions. But she looks passive-aggressive in the extreme.

 

I agree, though I don't think we're supposed to think she's being entirely pure of heart here. All that gushing she did over Dante during the MetroCourt lunch a ways back wasn't just to tell Lulu what a great husband she has. If Valerie weren't attracted to Dante, she wouldn't have slept with him.

 

It's really annoying that all of this could be cleared up if people would just talk to one another. It's as bad as the trope in which someone can't get out an explanation for all the interruptions.

Edited July 7, 2015 by dubbel zout

[TeeVee329]

On one hand, I don't have a problem with Valerie having loyalty to Dante over Lulu and thus telling him something he might have needed to know instead of keeping a secret.  Valerie and Lulu have next to no relationship, and I honestly hold Lulu mostly responsible for that.

 

But on the other, this is clearly what Valerie wanted.  Maybe not consciously, maybe not something she was actively trying to make happen, but she certainly didn't hesitate when the opportunity arose.

 

Speaking of Spencers, where is Bobbie? 

Edited July 7, 2015 by TeeVee329

[ulkis]

On one hand, I don't have a problem with Valerie having loyalty to Dante over Lulu and thus telling him something he might have needed to know instead of keeping a secret.  Valerie and Lulu have next to no relationship, and I honestly hold Lulu mostly responsible for that.

 

I don't have a problem with Valerie being more loyal to Dante than Lulu, but if she were actually loyal to him, she would have told him to ask his wife what was up and to leave her (Valerie) alone about it.

 

I don't blame either Lulu or Valerie for them not having a relationship. Dante's been gracious to her (Valerie), and what is Lulu supposed to say? Yeah, I don't feel comfortable with her staying around and I'd like you to go back to Pennsylvania now please? I do think Lulu could have piped up with a, "yeah, I feel kinda weird about you getting a job at the PCPD though" when Valerie asked her if she felt weird.

 

And also, it's not like Valerie doesn't have two other cousins in town (and an Aunt). Lulu's no more obliged than them to forge a relationship with Valerie.

 

But again, it all comes down to shoddy writing. There should have been scenes with Valerie, Carly, Lucas, Bobbie. But there weren't any, and we all know, of course, why: the woman had "plot point" written on her forehead the instant Dante was the one who got her to stop killing Luke. Perhaps even before that when they left Dante (the cop!) in the apartment while the woman in her 60s and the woman who weighs 98 pounds soaking wet went instead of him to find a possibly murderous psychopath.

Edited July 7, 2015 by ulkis

[ch1]

Jake alive brings the ELQ fight into play, and it could fuck Nik over royally (no pun). Jake, as a descendant of Edward, gets shares, and the percentages gets readjusted. Liz is now, by ake's proxy the key who gets to rule ELQ. At a certain point, Liz can say "Fuck you, Nik!" and throw her support to Michael, which should kick Nik out. We can still have Jakeson milling about.

 

 

I wonder if this is the main reason they are bringing him back (plus now Luke isn't a drunk child killer - although you can't erase how horrible he was after it happened or how horrible Lulu was to Lucky). 

 

I would say NIk is screwed if this happens.  Can't see Liz voting against what Jake wants since she is so pathetically desperate to hold on to him. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I would say NIk is screwed if this happens.  Can't see Liz voting against what Jake wants since she is so pathetically desperate to hold on to him. 

 

Or Nik could ask her to vote his way if she wants him to keep her secret about who Jason is.

[TeeVee329]

With Valerie, I also think the show made a huge mistake killing off Patricia as soon as her plot point in the Fluke mess was over.  You could have had both her and Val come stay in Port Charles and given them a few months of them together, so we could actually invest in Valerie's grief about it.

[Francie]

It's really annoying that all of this could be cleared up if people would just talk to one another. It's as bad as the trope in which someone can't get out an explanation for all the interruptions.

 

Yes, it seems that the only time people do have uninterrupted conversations is when they are engaged in the trope of confessing wrongdoings loudly in a public space while one of the cartoon villain caricatures (side eyeing Franco and Nina here) eavesdrops.

 

This also reminds me of my favorite tweet on the Dante/Lulu/Valerie/Dillon quad:

 

"Okay, Mr. Furley...er, Dante...you're jumping to the wrong conclusions about Chrissy, I mean Lulu, and Larry, I mean Dillion.  STOP IT"

Edited July 7, 2015 by Francie

[Oracle42]

cartoon villain caricatures (side eyeing Franco and Nina here)

Gasp! How dare you malign our romantic heroes and their pure and beautiful twue wuv! How DARE you!!1!!

[Francie]

Gasp! How dare you malign our romantic heroes and their pure and beautiful twue wuv! How DARE you!!1!!

Someday I want a scene with Lucy and Scotty were they look upon serial killer and sexual assailant Franco and attempted murderess and induced-labor baby snatcher Nina and say:

 

"And to think, once upon a time, we were the town pariahs."

 

*And yes, I have to ignore the fact that Scotty is all wanting to be buds with Franco, trying to forge an Opie and Pa relationship with his nearly 50-year-old son.

[Tiger]

Someday I want a scene with Lucy and Scotty were they look upon serial killer and sexual assailant Franco and attempted murderess and induced-labor baby snatcher Nina and say:

 

"And to think, once upon a time, we were the town pariahs.".

Someday I want a scene where Ava and Michael look upon WE (-2) NEVER CARED and RAPIST SERIEL KILLER's dead bodies, and laugh as they kick them into the icy harbor.

[RedRockRosie]

 

I'm guessing Red Rock Rosie was using the "Pre" from "Previously TV" and lovingly (I assume lovingly lol) referred to us Previously TV-Lovers as 'Preverts' which I kinda love :)

 

Oh yes....completely & utterly filled with love! lol You guys are amazing and I can only imagine the awesome writing you Pre(viously)-verts could do if they let you write these dang shows.

 

And these threads... even on a slow day, are way more entertaining & insightful than the stuff the actual "writers" spew.

 

Thanks, you guys!!  I am in awe.

Edited July 7, 2015 by RedRockRosie

[rur]

*And yes, I have to ignore the fact that Scotty is all wanting to be buds with Franco, trying to forge an Opie and Pa relationship with his nearly 50-year-old son.

 

I've fanwanked that Scotty finds Franco just as disgusting as many of the rest of us do. But Scotty, remembering his own youth and the children he didn't know he had, is trying to do the right thing, because he figures being paternal to someone he detests is probably his karmic payback.

[TeeVee329]

I refuse to believe Scotty gives one iota of a shit about Franco.

[RedRockRosie]

With Valerie, I also think the show made a huge mistake killing off Patricia as soon as her plot point in the Fluke mess was over.  You could have had both her and Val come stay in Port Charles and given them a few months of them together, so we could actually invest in Valerie's grief about it.

Yes, this....and that's the thing with Carlivati...never any payoff. We go through these plotlines that actually have potential and could be played out for months and gee, maybe even connect to other stories/plots (now there's a concept, huh?!) and then....................nothing.

 

Disappointing in so many ways.....sigh.....

[Fellaway]

Wow.  Can you believe people are keeping secrets from Elizabeth?  The absolute nerve!

[Harmony233]

Someday I want a scene with Lucy and Scotty were they look upon serial killer and sexual assailant Franco and attempted murderess and induced-labor baby snatcher Nina and say:

 

"And to think, once upon a time, we were the town pariahs."

 

*And yes, I have to ignore the fact that Scotty is all wanting to be buds with Franco, trying to forge an Opie and Pa relationship with his nearly 50-year-old son.

That's what I don't get when lucy and scotty were causing problems they were considered the town pariahs and quite frankly was entertaining.However were supposed to find franco as a romantic hero.I just don't get it.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Harmony233

[Dandesun]

That's what I don't get when lucy and scotty were causing problems they were considered the town pariahs and quite frankly was entertaining.However were supposed to find franco as a romantic hero.I just don't get it.

 

There's this weird thing where they write people being horrible but have the hardest time allowing other characters to react to the horrible in any kind of realistic manner. I mean, of course Franco's only friend is a psychotic doctor and his love interest is a psychotic coma woman but then they write it all like it's some sort of wacky 90s sitcom. There's no real honesty involved. It's like Ron just goes 'It's to harrrrd to write people reacting to awful people especially when I like them being so awful! They're hilarious and everyone should see them that way and I'm just going to assume they do because I said so.'

 

And I am certain that the Franco: Romantic Hero comes from RoHo once being Todd who somehow was romantic despite being a raging fuck up... but then Ron never really got that aspect of it, either. Ron works under the belief of: I like this character and that means they're awesome and everything they do is funny and/or good. So there.

[HeatLifer]

Patrick hasn't proposed because SAM is GRIEVING. But he's awesome and well-adjusted and his life is so awesome without contact from his daughter's mother. DIAF. And Dante can join him. What a POS.

Edited July 7, 2015 by HeatLifer

[tveyeonyou]

Patrick hasn't proposed because SAM is GRIEVING. But he's awesome and well-adjusted and his life is so awesome without contact from his daughter's mother. DIAF. And Dante can join him. What a POS.

 

Daughter? Patrick has a daughter???

[TeeVee329]

Oh fuck, it's Felix.  I'd rather Brad monologue about his troubles to a picture of Britt than confide in that annoying busybody, especially considering how judge-y Felix immediately got.  Shut up, Felix, gawd!

 

So Dillon and Maxie got to talk about Georgie...for about five seconds in between plot points.  UGH.  C'mon, Ron, can't anything just breathe?

 

I can't believe, given how the last episode ended, there was no Luke/Laura/Lucky.  Ridiculous.

[backhometome]

Liz calling Jake "Jason" is kinda creepy. Will she accidentally call out his name in bed.

 

*throws confetti* Its a Franco/Ava free day. Finally!

 

Brad/Lucas are alive. 

 

Kinda odd that its a Lucky/Laura/Luke free day with the Jake bombshell yesterday. 

Edited July 7, 2015 by backhometome

[HeatLifer]

Daughter? Patrick has a daughter???

She's that tiny minion he drops off with other people while he bonds with the child of the man he wanted dead.

[TeeVee329]

Maxie: Hi Lulu!  I'm taking a break from my busy professional personal shopper schedule to go see my daughter.  Being a professional personal shopper is the best because I'm my own boss, I tell myself when to professionally and personally shop and when not to!

Edited July 7, 2015 by TeeVee329

[ulkis]

Patrick hasn't proposed because SAM is GRIEVING. But he's awesome and well-adjusted and his life is so awesome without contact from his daughter's mother. DIAF. And Dante can join him. What a POS.

 

I'm sad :(

[TessHarding2]

I refuse to believe Scotty gives one iota of a shit about Franco.

Out of all of the shit show ideas that they've done with the classic vets, I've put this out of my mind.  It does not exist. Never happened.  Did Scott and Heather "do it" in 1965 cause Franco sure don't look in his early 30's. 

 

I can't imagine a more pointless, aimless character.  It's too bad that Roger Howarth has all that contract time because he's got range.  I never watched OLTL but I went back to see what Todd Manning was like. 

[ulkis]

and eyeroll to the overtime given trying to paint poor Valerie as someone who just couldn't help herself. Woman, you just sat there lingering in another woman's bed. Give me a break.

[TeeVee329]

Yeah, nobody covered themselves in glory today.  Even Lulu.  "OMG, I'm so stressed out about lying to my husband.  But let me stand around here and talk to you for a while, Nathan and Maxie.  And let me gush about how awwwesome going on adventures with Dillon is."

 

Ugh.

[Melgaypet]

I can't imagine a more pointless, aimless character.  It's too bad that Roger Howarth has all that contract time because he's got range.  I never watched OLTL but I went back to see what Todd Manning was like. 

 

Howarth might've made a good recast Tom Hardy. Or at least, I would be interested in seeing how he would do in a role like that. But no, Ron had to be a big petulant baby over OLTL and PP and determined to keep RH on playing Todd in all but name. Gross.

[ulkis]

Yeah, nobody covered themselves in glory today.  Even Lulu.  "OMG, I'm so stressed out about lying to my husband.  But let me stand around here and talk to you for a while, Nathan and Maxie.  And let me gush about how awwwesome going on adventures with Dillon is."

 

Ugh.

 

I wanted to punch dime store in the face when he was like, "excuse me, have you met Lulu's father?"

 

Excuse me, NuDillon??? Have you?!?!?!

[Lillybee]

Where does Liz get off complaining to Nik that people are keeping things from her. Pot meet kettle.

[HeatLifer]

I'm sad :(

Trust me, I feel you. I cannot believe how disgusting Dante continues to look in this situation. I really don't care that he THINKS Lulu is cheating. He has no respect for anyone except Valerie, who is pathetic as fuck with her non-apologies. She's the worst kind of woman in every single way.

Basically, I'm raging when Dante and Patrick (did they style his hair so he looks even more like some goody-goody perfect man for Queen Samantha of Port Charles?) are on my screen on the same day.

Edited July 7, 2015 by HeatLifer

[Lillybee]

Show has ruined all the characters, Dante, Liz, Nik and Patrick, that I once cared for. But why, reasons.

[ciarra]

Does this mean that BJ will be back to reclaim her heart from Maxie?  If only she had given Maxie a brain as well.

[Dandesun]

Show has ruined all the characters, Dante, Liz, Nik and Patrick, that I once cared for. But why, reasons.

 

Yeah, that's kind of what happens with Ron. Eventually, everyone gets shit on.

[ulkis]

Patrick hasn't proposed because SAM is GRIEVING. But he's awesome and well-adjusted and his life is so awesome without contact from his daughter's mother. DIAF. And Dante can join him. What a POS.

 

The only good thing was when Dante asked if it was mutual (i.e. did I force you?) The question is, what would he have done exactly if she said yeah you kinda did. Arrest himself for date rape?

 

And maybe the actress has some life in her, but good God Valerie is boring. All she does is stare wistfully at Dante, telling him how amazing he is, and tell him his drunken sex with her in his wife's bed was a-okay. As allegedly boring as Lulu and Dante have become, they in no way started out with her following him around with puppy dog eyes and telling him his every move is awesome. Of course, Dante had a lot more life to him those days as well.

 

Is the guy Tracy bumped into

Paul, do you guys think?

Welcome, new character 5567!

Trust me, I feel you. I cannot believe how disgusting Dante continues to look in this situation. I really don't care that he THINKS Lulu is cheating. He has no respect for anyone except Valerie, who is pathetic as fuck with her non-apologies. She's the worst kind of woman in every single way.

 

He's not respecting her either.

 

Actually today the dialogue was a callback to last year, when Dante found out that Sonny cheated. When he confronted him, Sonny said that it meant nothing with him and Ava, and Dante replied, "so you cheated on my mother . . . for nothing." If I'm feeling generous I guess I could wank it that he remembered that and was trying to make himself feel better that he didn't just use Valerie the same way Sonny used Ava. BUT YOU DID DANTE. YOU DID. Even if there are feelings there. And while much more comfortable than AJ's crypt, AJ's crypt probably would have been a better spot.

Edited July 7, 2015 by ulkis

[HeatLifer]

The only good thing was when Dante asked if it was mutual (i.e. did I force you?) The question is, what would he have done exactly if she said yeah you kinda did. Arrest himself for date rape?

And maybe the actress has some life in her, but good God Valerie is boring. All she does is stare wistfully at Dante, telling him how amazing he is, and tell him his drunken sex with her in his wife's bed was a-okay. As allegedly boring as Lulu and Dante have become, they in no way started out with her following him around with puppy dog eyes and telling him his every move is awesome. Of course, Dante had a lot more life to him those days as well.

Ha! I also thought that question was strange because shouldn't HE feel used and guilty? But he wants to know if she wanted it, too? I'm sorry, come again now?

There is no relationship on TV that I find more unappealing and boring than one centered around a character that just kisses their partner's ass. It's the same reason I can't stand Samtrick.

[TeeVee329]

In other news, the hell, Brook Lynn's in LA?  Wasn't she just in Bensonhurst babysitting and getting blackmailed?

[ulkis]

Ha! I also thought that question was strange because shouldn't HE feel used and guilty? But he wants to know if she wanted it, too? I'm sorry, come again now?

 

I think he wanted to make sure he wasn't just drunkenly mauling at her. There, I'm not actually wanking. I mean I could be wrong but he didn't sound like he was saying "you wanted me back, right?? Because I really wanted it!!"

 

lol at Cue Card being kinda miffed on Dante's behalf but being too scared to really say anything. But hmm, since Dillon is a movie director maybe Cue Card is now the more appropriate nickname for him?? But he's not as bad an actor as Nathan, he's just kinda mannered.

 

So many deep questions to ponder.

In other news, the hell, Brook Lynn's in LA?  Wasn't she just in Bensonhurst babysitting and getting blackmailed?

 

THERE IS NO OTHER NEWS. Sorry, you might have to put me on block for a while.

 

But yeah, she was just in Brook Lynn. oops, yes that is the way I just wrote it. 

Edited July 7, 2015 by ulkis

[KerleyQ]

You know, that scene of Maxie talking to Dillon about Georgie could have been good...with Scott Clifton.  

 

As for Dante, it's like Ron looked around at the show and said "what's the one thing left I haven't ruined for KerleyQ?"  

[TeeVee329]

You know, that scene of Maxie talking to Dillon about Georgie could have been good...with Scott Clifton.

 

Or if had been more than a throwaway moment.  You could have devoted a whole episode' s worth of scenes to Dillon and Maxie catching up and talking about Georgie.

[Lillybee]

The fallout against Liz when the truth about Jason comes out should be at least 10 times worse than the fallout about the  Niz reveal.

I wish that JJ would be around to deliver another epic smackdown.

[godfreydaniels]

 

And maybe the actress has some life in her, but good God Valerie is boring. All she does is stare wistfully at Dante, telling him how amazing he is, and tell him his drunken sex with her in his wife's bed was a-okay

Not only is she boring as hell, but she (IMHO) just isn't that attractive. Something about her is askew, but then I don't care for Sam either.  I like nuDillon, he reminds me of Ryan on Million Dollar Listing.

Edited July 7, 2015 by godfreydaniels

[ulkis]

You know, that scene of Maxie talking to Dillon about Georgie could have been good...with Scott Clifton.  

 

As for Dante, it's like Ron looked around at the show and said "what's the one thing left I haven't ruined for KerleyQ?"  

 

It was a little weird for them to talk about Georgie 1.0 right. then. It smacked of, "look viewers, look! We so do know history!!" and "also, we've mentioned it, so don't bother us about it again" and awkward segueway all in one. mmmm.

[HeatLifer]

I think he wanted to make sure he wasn't just drunkenly mauling at her. There, I'm not actually wanking. I mean I could be wrong but he didn't sound like he was saying "you wanted me back, right?? Because I really wanted it!!"

No, you're not wrong. I guess I just think it's funny that Valerie wasn't more aware that he was drunk and didn't feel like she should probs be the one going, "Did I just take advantage of him and the situation?"

[dubbel zout]

The only good thing was when Dante asked if it was mutual (i.e. did I force you?) The question is, what would he have done exactly if she said yeah you kinda did. Arrest himself for date rape?

I think he wanted to make sure he wasn't just drunkenly mauling at her.

 

IMO, asking after the fact is pointless—the deed is done. But I think it was very clear Valerie was absolutely a willing participant.

 

it's funny that Valerie wasn't more aware that he was drunk and didn't feel like she should probs be the one going, "Did I just take advantage of him and the situation?"

 

He started it, but Valerie knew he was upset. She should have put the brakes on. Ugh. This whole thing is so gross.

 

It was a little weird for them to talk about Georgie 1.0 right. then. It smacked of, "look viewers, look! We so do know history!!" and "also, we've mentioned it, so don't bother us about it again" and awkward segueway all in one.

 

It's such a Ron way to handle stuff like that: "Hey, we didn't ignore it! Stop complaining we don't know history."

[Blackie]

Trust me, I feel you. I cannot believe how disgusting Dante continues to look in this situation. I really don't care that he THINKS Lulu is cheating. He has no respect for anyone except Valerie, who is pathetic as fuck with her non-apologies. She's the worst kind of woman in every single way.

Basically, I'm raging when Dante and Patrick (did they style his hair so he looks even more like some goody-goody perfect man for Queen Samantha of Port Charles?) are on my screen on the same day.

 

 

Dante definately has no respect for Val.   AND Val definately is the worst.  She was messin where she shouldn'ave been messin!!

 

Not only is she boring as hell, but she (IMHO) just isn't that attractive. Something about her is askew

 

I agree, she reminds me of SB (original Carly), great actress but something about her look was always "askew" to me.(eta:  SB good actress not necessarily this actress who plays Valerie)  Although Val did do a good pouty face, not that I want to see her pouting around Port Charles because she had to console her "friend" with sex and now his marriage is really ruined.

 

Patrick's hair looks totally dorky.

Barf...hope Dante and Val aren't in the shower together

Edited July 7, 2015 by Blackie