S01.E06: The Good Man

[Boofish]

In fairness, this is southern California. My friends will throw on a jacket when they're cold in spite of the fact they're walking around in shorts, an incongruousness that still baffles me after living here nearly two decades.

I live in Texas where Ugg boots, college sweatshirt and gym shorts are the official state outfit! :) 

[FierceCritter]

My sister is an actress, she's done some small roles in small films. She's at least good enough that when I watch what she's in, I forget she's my sister.

She showed me one early student film she did. There's a scene where she has to be a kind of "crazy shopping cart lady" and react crazily to someone in a scene. I thought she was horrible. REALLY over the top. Then she explained to me that she absolutely hated having to do the scene that way, but the director insisted on it. She tried to subvert what she knew was poor direction by doing it HER way the first time. He made her re-do it his way. She didn't fight him.

So, in defense of Kim Dickens (I have no problem with Cliff Curtis), perhaps this really is the direction she's getting. Evidence this is true: Watch her on TTD. She has a whole range of facial expressions when in a simple, conversant situation. It surprised me to see her smile, be somewhat coy, etc. Also in her defense, there were few moments in this season where she was placed in situations of much beyond "pensive wait and see." I might re-watch the first episode, where there were moments of pre-ZA happiness and see how she was.

In defense of the "she's simply a bad actress" camp, I loved her CHARACTER on Deadwood. But I noted from the start, "What is it about this performance that bugs me?" I loved Joanie Stubbs. But what bothered me about the role was she, like in FtWD, held the same facial expression the vast majority of the time. In Deadwood, it was a sort of "wide-eyed deer fear." So it seems that Kim is CAPABLE of different facial expressions, but only uses one per role.

"Bacon Number" note - My sister played the drug test lady in "Sunlight Junior." That gives me a Norman Reedus number of 2. Feel free to touch my avatar.

[rab01]

I didn't get a chance to watch this episode until last night so I'm a bit behind everyone else but I stand by my first reaction that this episode was much better than the middle of the series. Yes, our protagonists were assholes who are indirectly responsible for the fall of civilization in their part of LA but ...

 

1) Honestly, Salazar's actions were awful but totally in character for him.  Can you think of a better diversion for getting him into a fortified military compound? If you can, are you sure that his character should have been able to think of it? Yes, I think there was a better way and it would have started the episode before with him enlisting the help of the soldier, rather than torturing him but to someone with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail ...

 

2) The walkers overrunning the military base was believable - not exactly as staged but believable. OK, we should have seen holes being blown into walker torsos and limbs being shot off with the occasional collpasing walker and all of it doing nothing to slow down the hord.  But, it would have been difficult to stage that safely for the extras because it would have involved walkers shambling over the corpses on the ground.  As for breaking the fence, the sustained rifle and machine gun fire was probably weakening the fence.  It would have been nice if they would have shown the fence shredding but that doesn't make the scene more implausible.

 

3) Pretty much everything worked out worse than if our "heroes" had done nothing but that's pretty typical for stories in The Walking Dead universe.

 

So, for me they stopped inserting huge plot holes and they gave us a couple of good moments - the soldier walking into the rotor, Strand taking his cufflinks back, the trapped people in the cages, the fight inside the kitchen, some of the LA cityscapes. Also, hats off to Dr. Exner and the actress playing her. I knew she was going to die from the moment we met her but I still fet sorry for her throughout the episode.  (Unlike Lisa's death, which was too convenient and pat an emotional moment for me - but that may be because I predicted from the episode title that Traivs would kill someone and be all emo about it.)

 

Unfortunately, I'm still not invested in these characters and I am now less interested in their survival than I was midway through episode 1.  The actor playing Strand is very charismatic; he's injectng sexual menace into almost every line reading. But, Strand's resources are a little too convenient. The only reasons I can see him saving Nick (and now his family) is that he needed some potential zombie chum and that he likes having an appreciative audience around. As for the other characters, Salazar was taken too far too fast for me to root for him easily, Maddison is a potential (but not yet) badass played by a stone faced actress, Travis is a moron played by a bit more expressive actor, the two girls have been rendered characterless and Chris needs a lot more work before he stops making me more annoyed than early seasons Carl. --- That's not a lot of entertainment. 

 

If I watch next season, I'm going to let the episodes accumulate and avoid the boards in between so that I don't think too deeply about any of it.

[KirkB]

A good enough actor can do wonders with the crappiest of scripts, but not if the director won't let them. The only thing I have seen Kim Dickens in is an episode of White Collar and she was a lot more animated than in FEAR so I know she can do it. I have to speculate either she is being prevented from bringing more to the table or is supposed to be playing some variation of shell shocked and it just isn't coming across. Cliff Curtis I am much more familiar with and I know he is capable of better than I have seen here so something is holding him back. On a similar note, Ruben Blades is the best thing about the show as far as I'm concerned, and even he seems...bored.

[lidarose9]

All in all, what makes me stick with TWD over the years is the fact that I care about the characters. That is what's missing here. I don't give a shit what happens to these people. Any of them. 

[Raven1707]

The Sunday Cable Ratings are in for "The Good Man":

 

The "Fear the Walking Dead" season finale on AMC was far and away the top show on cable Sunday night -- and its 3.4 rating in adults 18-49 also beat everything but the NFL on broadcast. [Total Live + SD viewers: 6.861 million]

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/10/06/sunday-cable-ratings-fear-the-walking-dead-finale-leads-night-strain-finale-rick-morty-kardashians/476968/

 

And here are the final Live + SD Ratings for the entire season:

 

08-23-15 “Pilot” 10.130 million
08-30-15 “So Close, Yet So Far” 8.184 million
09-13-15 “The Dog” 7.185 million
09-20-15 “Not Fade Away” 6.623 million
09-27-15 “Cobalt” 6.655 million
10-04-15 "The Good Man" 6.861 million

[Cthulhudrew]

A good example of the acting/writing dichotomy in this show - for me - is Strand. He's a really horribly written character; needlessly oblique, not really (thus far) serving much point in the plot. Yet Colman Domingo brings a real gravitas to the part, so that it seems like he's saying something profound and meaningful when he's not really saying anything. His performance lends the part as written much more depth than it would in the hands of another actor.

 

They need more performers like that on this show, if they're going to continue to underwrite the thing.

[Raven1707]

Just because I keep track of such things:

 

“Pilot” written by Robert Kirkman & Dave Erickson
“So Close, Yet So Far” written by Marco Rameriz
“The Dog” written by Jack LoGiudice
“Not Fade Away” written by Meaghan Oppenheimer
“Cobalt” written by David Wiener
“The Good Man” written by Robert Kirkman & Dave Erickson

[morgankobi]

Please note this is meant in a jovial manner :)

 

I don't know what it is, but peach's continually burning hate for this show cracks me up. (Condensed for effect.)

This is a show about assholes written by assholes, and thank God it's over.  Thanks for killing off the only non-asshole, assholes.

 

 

...This show has been total nonsense.  NONSENSE. 

 

...  I'm so totally disgusted by the sheer magnitude of all the assholery that I can't see straight.

 

 

But instead, a U.S. soldier could only get off one half assed shot and then is taken down and inexplicably beaten to a pulp by a fucking whiny pacifist.  BECAUSE THIS SHOW IS STUPID.

 

 

BTSIS  (Because This Show Is Stupid)

 

 

If hating this show is wrong, I don't want to be right.

 

 

  Just...lame.

Keep fightin' the good fight, peach!

Edited October 7, 2015 by morgankobi

[grumpypanda]

Maybe I'm confused but I thought that Strand said that he was going on the boat alone and that everyone else had to leave his awesome house. Have a popsicle, now get out bitches!

Anyway, I don't get why Liza had to be put down right then and there. Why not spend a little bit of time with your son and explain to him why your essentially committing suicide.

I'm disappointed that more of the core gang didn't die. I actually cheered when Ophelia got shot but my happiness was short lived when I realized she survived. I was really hoping that the show was going to shock us with some main characters becoming zombie chow.

Overall, I think this show is kind of stupid but I'll be back next season anyway. I have pretty low expectations and I enjoy reading the comments here.

[Emily Thrace]

My sister is an actress, she's done some small roles in small films. She's at least good enough that when I watch what she's in, I forget she's my sister.

She showed me one early student film she did. There's a scene where she has to be a kind of "crazy shopping cart lady" and react crazily to someone in a scene. I thought she was horrible. REALLY over the top. Then she explained to me that she absolutely hated having to do the scene that way, but the director insisted on it. She tried to subvert what she knew was poor direction by doing it HER way the first time. He made her re-do it his way. She didn't fight him.

So, in defense of Kim Dickens (I have no problem with Cliff Curtis), perhaps this really is the direction she's getting. Evidence this is true: Watch her on TTD. She has a whole range of facial expressions when in a simple, conversant situation. It surprised me to see her smile, be somewhat coy, etc. Also in her defense, there were few moments in this season where she was placed in situations of much beyond "pensive wait and see." I might re-watch the first episode, where there were moments of pre-ZA happiness and see how she was.

In defense of the "she's simply a bad actress" camp, I loved her CHARACTER on Deadwood. But I noted from the start, "What is it about this performance that bugs me?" I loved Joanie Stubbs. But what bothered me about the role was she, like in FtWD, held the same facial expression the vast majority of the time. In Deadwood, it was a sort of "wide-eyed deer fear." So it seems that Kim is CAPABLE of different facial expressions, but only uses one per role.

 

I also think judging by her suddenly wrinkle free face she probably got fillers and botox just before shooting. That probably had something to do with her limited expressions. Since this is something she noticeably wasn't doing on Treme or for Gone Girl I would bet money this was a "suggestion" from TPTB. The last thing they want is for their lead to appear anything but youthful.  Which is why I'm hopeful they will have settled in or TPTB will let her cut back for next year considering all the criticism its brought. I definitely think some of that was direction and story. Madison is usually the one calming everyone else down so she doesn't get a chance to really fall apart herself. I also think some of this is blown up in the name of quick internet humor. The look on her face when she pulled Travis of Andy actually showed a lot. As did her half smile when Strand said they 'would get along just fine. Kim Dickens does have a tendency to underplay which next the very dramatic actors seems underwhelming.

 

I also feel like some of this is gendered, Madison is acting cool and collected which is pretty much the opposite of the hysterical woman. Which is a big reason I like her actually she not your typical "nurturing" tv mom nor is she the stone cold Amazon badass. in many ways she is the person Carol stans think Carol could be. Madison is a survivor already she can make hard calls and do it quickly without emotion she also a leader something none of the women on the mothership can truly claim (I know Andrea and Carol and few other have tried but in the the end they all conceded authority to Rick.)   That's still someone I want to watch go through the ZA. With the possible exception of Darryl (who has never learned to function normally to the extent Madison has) no one has come into the show with the scars Madison has and I think watching the world catch-up to her is going to be an interesting ride.

 

Also speaking of Darryl I laughed out loud on TTD when the writer suggested Madison was related to someone on the mothership. Cuz Kim Dickens in terms of age and even looks is just about perfect to be the long lost Dixon sister who is in 1/5 walking dead fan fics. I think the writer actually mentioned Rick but he's never mentioned a sister. Plus Madison is a bit too dysfunctional to belong to the same family tree as uber-normal Rick. If TPTB do go that particularly fan-ficcy route Darryl or Herschel make more sense.

[peach]

Please note this is meant in a jovial manner :)

 

I don't know what it is, but peach's continually burning hate for this show cracks me up. (Condensed for effect.)

 

Keep fightin' the good fight, peach!

 

Ha!  I was pretty fired up.  BTSIS

[Nashville]

What amazes me is that I only hate Lori half as much as I used to, compared to Madison Clark.

 

Hey now, let's not go overboard here....  ;>

[ghoulina]

Maybe I'm confused but I thought that Strand said that he was going on the boat alone and that everyone else had to leave his awesome house. Have a popsicle, now get out bitches!

 

Honestly, I had a hard time understanding him. Between his low voice and the non-sensical rambling, but that's kind of how I understood it too. Nick was asking where "Abigail" was and Strand gave some vague answer. But it seemed like HE would be going there alone, because then Nick was like, "So we all stay here?" And Strand was like - "No one is staying here". *confused stare*

 

And I'm still waiting to see what purpose Strand had for Nick. 

[editorgrrl]

Nick was asking where "Abigail" was and Strand gave some vague answer. But it seemed like HE would be going there alone, because then Nick was like, "So we all stay here?" And Strand was like - "No one is staying here". *confused stare*

Nick: Where are you going?

Strand: I must stay in constant motion.

Nick: What do we do? Can we stay here?

Strand: No. No, you cannot. No one stays.

Nick: Where's Abigail?

Strand: Not here.

Nick: So, why are we here? Why'd we come here if we're not staying? [Door slides open.] Are you insane?

Strand: The only way to survive a mad world is to embrace the madness.

Nick: Is that a yes?

Nick asked intelligent questions, and said something funny. As somebody said upthread, Strand actually made Maddie interesting for a moment in the car. ("You're funny. We're gonna get along fine, Nick's mom.") I like this character.

Edited October 7, 2015 by editorgrrl

[peach]

Hey now, let's not go overboard here....  ;>

LOL!  I kept watching and said, What was I thinking?  I really, really, really hate Lori.

Honestly, I had a hard time understanding him. Between his low voice and the non-sensical rambling, but that's kind of how I understood it too. Nick was asking where "Abigail" was and Strand gave some vague answer. But it seemed like HE would be going there alone, because then Nick was like, "So we all stay here?" And Strand was like - "No one is staying here". *confused stare*

 

And I'm still waiting to see what purpose Strand had for Nick. 

If Strand doesn't plan on taking them, I think he'll find himself at the bottom of a cliff, courtesy of Maddie, Nick, and Daniel.  Travis will just look pained.

[Sunnydayman]

I can't believe they let all those zombies walk free! It wasn't just a shitty thing to do, it was completely insane and stupid. They had no way to be sure that the zombies wouldn't get to Lisa and Nick before they could be "rescued". In fact, they got Lisa killed! Unbelievable. And before that, they left their neighbours to die, children included, because "omg, they didn't help us when the soldiers were trying to take Whatshername and Nick to a hospital". (Because for all they knew, that's what happened). Why should I care about those assholes? Answer: I don't.

[Sunnydayman]

I have never been a fan of Reuben Blades. He was always too anti-government for me. Letting all those zombies out seems like something he would do. I still don't understand why they didn't allow him to accompany his wife to the hospital especially since the doctor said they would allow it. He was only forced to stay behind as a way to move the plot forward. I didn't like it. I would much rather those zombies getting out on their own (you can't stop the inevitable). The main characters committed an atrocity to free and old woman and a junkie. I have no sympathy for any in them.

Why would National Guard soldiers be this evil? I guess you never know what kind of person you truly are until the world falls apart but I find that hard to believe.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Sunnydayman

[xaxat]

And I'm still waiting to see what purpose Strand had for Nick. 

 

So he doesn't have to be faster than the proverbial bear?

[Watcher0363]

 

 

What amazes me is that I only hate Lori half as much as I used to, compared to Madison Clark.

 

 

Hey now, let's not go overboard here....  ;>

 

 

LOL!  I kept watching and said, What was I thinking?  I really, really, really hate Lori.

 

When the show comes back I'll keep checking the threads. To see if someone pulls a Daryl, "Olive Oly." To Madison-- Listen "Stonehenge" you don't like it here, there's the shore, swim for it. Hey take the good man with you. 

[BetyBee]

I really gave this show a chance, by which I mean that I purchased a season pass and watched every episode.  I'm so disappointed. The writing is absolutely terrible.  The things the characters do make no sense.  I can't imagine not being aware that writing a plot that has our heroes leaving the gate open for their neighbors to die and unleashing thousands of zombies on sick and imprisoned people (including the people they intended to rescue) and on the allegedly evil military as well, is stupid and not in any way admirable.  These people turned so quickly on their neighbors, which is not something that normal people do in a crisis.  Not early on, anyway. They also acted as if the military were grabbing healthy people from their beds, rather than taking a sick woman and a thieving junkie away to help them.  Granted they didn't help Nick much, but they did keep him away from drugs long enough for him to sober up a bit.  Of course his Mommy dearest took in a big supply of meds in case he feels the need to partake again.  I'll try again next season, but they had better be doing some serious re-writing.  This season was total crap.  

 

ETA - I don't think I've said anything that hasn't been said.  But it sure helps to vent!

Edited October 7, 2015 by BetyBee

[Dobian]

This episode mostly worked because it was mostly action.  Same as the previous two episodes which focused mostly on advancing the plot.  The episodes that didn't work were first ones which focused on setup and character development.  This show has been terrible at that.  I guess they killed off Elizabeth Rodriguez's character because she wouldn't be able to do a full season of this and OITNB next year?  I agree that it seemed strange she wouldn't say goodbye to her son first.

[qtpye]

Don't you love the way that Nick thinks being a heroin addicts prepared him to be a superstar in the zombie apocalypse?  I think I am supposed to find a charming artful dodger type, but he honestly has left no impression, beyond annoying dick who probably got Liza killed.  Actually, they all had a hand in her death with their stupid "lets let the zombies out" plan.  I would have loved it if she had bitch slapped an actual expression onto Madison's face before asking to be killed.

 

It is like the writers read "Walking Dead for Dummies" and tried to make a series.  Rick's transformation from a basically good man to a hostile guy who will defend his friends and family at all cost was earned.  Idiot Travis's transformation into a killer makes no impact, because I have no clue about what his character was like in the first place.

 

This was a truly horrible show.  The "Walking Dead" now looks like sophisticated high art in comparison.  I am so glad it is coming back.

[polyhymnia]

When my 14-yr-old is complaining about dialogue and plot (she's a smart kid but still 14), your show probably has some big problems.  We didn't hate the finale as much as the rest of the episodes because at least there were some zombies but the main group is already pretty evil and it hasn't been long enough for them to all start being morally compromised.  Daniel being evil because he was a torturer was too easy.  Pretty freaking trite but I guess keeping a little to form by killing off Liza.  How do you NOT know you got bit?  That was a little confusing.

 

Strand is great (because the actor is having fun) and his interactions with Nick were fabulous but they don't actually make much sense.  The Dillane kid was having a bit of trouble staying American in his long speech to his mom about how being a goofed up junkie is a big plus in this messed-up zombie world.

I may have said this earlier but someone really, really needs to do a mash-up of this awful season and the awful True Detective Season 2.  I was briefly confused (not really, the cinematography was not as good) when they were doing the stupid musical montage.

That said, I will at least tape it when it comes back on - it's fun to make fun of.

[peach]

I stole this quote from over on the media thread.  It seriously blows my mind that this how the writers think.  Instead of just admitting, hey, we probably should have shown that being resolved, and Our Heroes DID, of course, close the gate...it's just, hey, I mean, he could have closed it.  Well, did he, or didn't he?  I mean, technically, aliens could have come down and closed it, too.  Madison could have cracked a facial expression.  Anything is possible if you didn't see it, amirite?

 

God, they suck.

 

 

"As for the neighborhood, we don’t see it on camera, but we went back and forth. There’s actually a version where they just slam through the gate with the truck and knock it over. And the question came up: What about the people in the neighborhood, because they’re basically ringing a dinner bell for the walkers to come in? In my mind, you don’t see it on camera, but because Salazar is able to figure out how to open the gate — we don’t see Travis get out of the truck but he very well could have jumped out and hit that button and closed the gate. I also think it would have been easy enough for a neighbor to have come and pressed the button and closed the gate as well."

  

Edited October 7, 2015 by peach

[rab01]

Not to beat a dead horse about the gate but it's worse than just a storytelling fail of walking back the scene in interviews.

 

The writers and the actor playing Travis have to KNOW whether or not he closed the gate and, if he left it open, KNOW whether he did it on purpose or because he didn't think of the likely consequences for the neighborhood. They have to KNOW that answer because it will/should inform the portrayal of that character going forward.  If Travis were a real person, that act would have meaning in the future and his future actions would be consistent with it. This is not a Schrodinger's cat situation; Travis Mawae would know what he had done so Cliff Curtis needs to know it too or else his performance cannot be true to the character.  (That an open gate was a plot point for the mothership in the past season and that they had a debate but claimed not to have decided on an answer, sounds to me like Erickson is trolling us or that he never watched last season of TWD.)

 

[anything else I might say should probably go in the TWD comparison thread]

[peach]

Not to beat a dead horse about the gate but it's worse than just a storytelling fail of walking back the scene in interviews.

 

The writers and the actor playing Travis have to KNOW whether or not he closed the gate and, if he left it open, KNOW whether he did it on purpose or because he didn't think of the likely consequences for the neighborhood. They have to KNOW that answer because it will/should inform the portrayal of that character going forward.  If Travis were a real person, that act would have meaning in the future and his future actions would be consistent with it. This is not a Schrodinger's cat situation; Travis Mawae would know what he had done so Cliff Curtis needs to know it too or else his performance cannot be true to the character.

 

Yes!  (Also, sorry I didn't credit you on finding that quote, I had a dickens of a time trying to figure out how to bring it over from another spot.) 

 

This explains what's fundamentally wrong with these characters.  The writers not only don't know WHY their own characters do things, they don't even know WHAT they do!  And that statement sounded like it didn't even matter to them.  Here's a moment from their script that angered half the viewers, and he's like, meh, somebody probably closed it, whatever.  Why, does it affect the plot of the show we're writing or something? 

 

How can they expect fans to care about a show that is so sloppily put together?  Especially obsessive WD fans.

 

I'm getting really pissed off again, @morgankobi!!!  GAAAAH!

 

At least I can sort of see the roots of the problem now.

[RedheadZombie]

I'm kinda interested to see the whole yacht scenario, so I'll probably watch a second season. My main problem is with Travis. I do not like him, I think he's weak. Not because he couldn't kill, but because he can't take care of his family. Chris didn't/doesn't like him. He tried to make good on being supportive about Nick- and I actually think he mostly succeeded there. He had almost no interaction with Alicia, so I have to assume there isn't much of one. Worst though is that he didn't really support Maddie or Liza. He always seemed to make choices that weren't supportive of either of them.

Maddie is fine for me, for the most part. Nick can be a new character since he may have finished going through withdrawals? Alicia they never really explored her, so I'll give a pass. Although she loses her boyfriend and  Zuzu, but we just see her reading a letter. (they actually have this same problem with some of the characters on the main show) I don't mind Chris either, I actually really liked him in this last episode. Salazar is okay by me, but Ofelia can gtfo anytime now.

I was really upset that the doctor killed herself. I would have liked to have her around next season.

I don't want next season to be all yacht, but I'm hoping they're briefly on it and I'm hoping they have to swim to reach it - it's apparently the only way Nick's going to get his filthy body in water.

All the kids have grown on me, and I appreciated that Alicia and Chris are clicking. I liked Nick before the couple of really self-pitying episodes involving stealing a suffering man's morphine, and whining about his "medicine", and I'm liking him again. I enjoy him working with Strand. Strand seems to be the only person not cosseting him, and he doesn't have any residual anger at Nick the Addict, so Nick seems kind of drawn to him.

I didn't really hate anyone, although I was really happy to see Griselda bite it. What a useless shrill ungrateful creature. First the stereotype of praying it all away, then the bitching and moaning while people were doing their best to care for her. Then her bizarre dying soliloque implying she hated and feared her husband. Oh brother, just leave him already.

I'm ready for Ofelia to go. She was absolutely pleased to leave the rest of the neighborhood to die a horrid death. Why? Because they didn't defy the military - with guns! - as they took her mother to medical treatment for her necrotic foot. All they needed to do was give a quick warning. Not take the people with them, not share any resources. Wish GI Joe's aim was a little better. Turns out she's as bloodthirsty as her father, the former torturer.

Travis doesn't bother me. He's finally seeing the light. From passifist to beating a man nearly to death for a flesh wound, and shooting the mother of your child in the head in just six episodes. I don't find him unsupportive of Madison and Liza, I just found him torn between the two, along with feeling responsible for Nick and Alicia rather than focusing only on his own - something that Liza seemed to have less of a problem with.

I thought it was pretty clear the doctor would kill herself, but they seemed to make it vague. Almost as if she was holding the weapon to use at the last minute, rather than full out suicide.

[TexasChic]

In reference to the gate being left open, my thoughts were the military had everyone locked inside the gates so they could be exterminated later when Cobalt went into effect. Torture dude (sorry, bad with names) knew the code - from said torture I'm guessing, so locking the gate behind them would be effectively signing their death warrant. They may have felt it was too risky to tell the neighbors about what was going on, but locking them back up in there doesn't seem right either. Maybe some walkers getting in would alert them to the fact that things are no longer safe, and it's time to find an elsewhere to be. That's what went through my mind as I was watching anyway.

[peach]

I don't want next season to be all yacht, but I'm hoping they're briefly on it and I'm hoping they have to swim to reach it - it's apparently the only way Nick's going to get his filthy body in water.

 

Then her bizarre dying soliloque implying she hated and feared her husband. Oh brother, just leave him already.

 

Then we'll get Nick's "beach hair."

 

I thought Griselda was talking about God.

[RedheadZombie]

Then we'll get Nick's "beach hair."

 

I thought Griselda was talking about God.

You're probably right. If I recall correctly, they were kind of inner cutting it with the audience realizing Daniel was a baddie. The actress was kind of growling her lines like she was possessed, so I was a little distracted.

[TexasChic]

Then we'll get Nick's "beach hair."

 

Cleaned up "Nick" is hot Nick, so I'm looking forward to that turnaround (i.e. the actor is hot when not being all gross heroin addict).

[Ohwell]

In reference to the gate being left open, my thoughts were the military had everyone locked inside the gates so they could be exterminated later when Cobalt went into effect. Torture dude (sorry, bad with names) knew the code - from said torture I'm guessing, so locking the gate behind them would be effectively signing their death warrant. They may have felt it was too risky to tell the neighbors about what was going on, but locking them back up in there doesn't seem right either. Maybe some walkers getting in would alert them to the fact that things are no longer safe, and it's time to find an elsewhere to be. That's what went through my mind as I was watching anyway.

That could have made sense, but even if they thought it was better to leave the gate open so that the neighbors could escape from Cobalt, it still seems to me that they would have warned the neighbors.  I just don't see it as too risky to tell the neighbors sitting around the dinner table that zombies were near.  Now if the neighbors didn't believe them then that would have been their stupidity, but at least the gang would have left knowing they did all they could to warn them.     

[TexasChic]

I figured they were afraid of widespread panicking, which might keep anyone from making it out alive. Madison mentioned the neighbors didn't know what was coming (or something of that nature). I think blatant fear kept them quite, which I find believable, if not honorable.

[raven]

 

I think blatant fear kept them quite, which I find believable, if not honorable.

I agree; like I said before, they got stuck with the military because Madison went back to warn Patrick; also believable but would make her more wary.  It wouldn't be as simple as dropping a quick message to the family and leaving, either, there might be arguments, who knows. 

 

These people aren't heroes - they're regular people, some decent, some not, figuring it out as they go, with their top priority being their families.  They're not military planners; I figured Daniel probably thought (if he thought much of it all) that the military guys would take out the zombies he released.  I don't think he really wanted everyone in the compound wiped out.  We see two soldiers talking and saying their superiors/officers were gone; might explain the incompetence (though it really shouldn't, they could have fared better and everyone still gotten out).  The show would have been better served to show more balance with the military guys (and on TTD the writer admitted that they showed the military in a bad light) so I'm hoping for more balance in S2.

 

I thought Strand smugly leaving the soldier to be eaten alive, just because of some cufflinks, to be far colder; as well as not letting the people out of the cages (Nick fails here also) just because they didn't have anything to offer.   These are people begging for help to his face and he blows it off casually.  The actor is entertaining but his character isn't especially a good person.

 

 

Travis doesn't bother me. He's finally seeing the light.

Doesn't bother me either.  I found his journey believable.  I like seeing different facets of everyone and I was surprised that the kids didn't annoy me the way I thought they would.  I don't mind starting on the boat for S2, I just don't want to be stuck there like in the GA woods.  I'm hoping for some traveling around and seeing how others are faring.

 

 

I thought it was pretty clear the doctor would kill herself, but they seemed to make it vague.

They said on TTD that if you didn't specifically see someone die, they might not be dead.  So who knows?  She may appear again, or Tobias may.

[morgankobi]

So he doesn't have to be faster than the proverbial bear?

Please be sure to look back at xaxat's avatar for full effect!

[Emily Thrace]

.Doesn't bother me either.  I found his journey believable.  I like seeing different facets of everyone and I was surprised that the kids didn't annoy me the way I thought they would.  I don't mind starting on the boat for S2, I just don't want to be stuck there like in the GA woods.  I'm hoping for some traveling around and seeing how others are faring..

 

I actually don't mind Travis either. I know he's taken a lot of flack for not liking guns but hes a  high school teacher in post columbine world. Frankly it would be weirder if he did like guns. I doubt the metal detectors at his school were purely decorative. . Especially on the west coast this isn't Georgia realistically more people on this show would be anti-gun. Also given his reactions to it in this episode Travis issues with violence don't come from fearing what he doesn't understand but rather that Travis has seen what guns and violence can do too often. Which wouldn't be that hard for Los Angeles high school teacher.

 

Realistically for the show to have legs our heroes need to find themselves as part of something more than running from Zombies. I'm curious as to where TPTB intend to take this show. Although that assumes they have any kind of plan at all at this point . Which I kind of doubt based on the show so far..

[North of Eden]

Well it finally took until the last episode for FTWD to rise to the level of WALKING DEAD PRIME but it did. Very enjoyable episode. Sometimes pure action is simply a lot better than character drama. Sorry but true. That's one of the reason I never cared for the late Michael Pillar-a prominent writer/producer on the STAR TREK shows who admitted in interviews he didn't like to do what he called "Run and Jump" episodes...he was in it for the character driven stuff...but sometimes that is just boring as we saw that to be the case with this series in its weakest episode that had NO zombies.

 

Seriously though what are we to make of the fact they got a whole ton of people killed trying to rescue their friends and family by unleashing zombies? And don't get me started on the epic fail of a notion Hotsy would travel all the way into a zombie herd just to get revenge on Salazar and then fails to shoot him.

 

Other than those points great finale!

[RedheadZombie]

I figured they were afraid of widespread panicking, which might keep anyone from making it out alive. Madison mentioned the neighbors didn't know what was coming (or something of that nature). I think blatant fear kept them quite, which I find believable, if not honorable.

The cars were packed and they were literally climbing in them. There may have been widespread panic, but they would have been gone before the neighbors could do anything except say - we're screwed.

[Macbeth]

If the show could just embrace its inner campiness - it could be so great.  The torturing and the not giving a crap about other humans happened within the first 6 episodes.  This is not a show that will or should focus on how to remain humane during an apocolapse.

 

These people are pirates.  Except for Travis who should probably be tossed over the deck by all rights.

 

And given the fact that we saw so few zombies, one herd does not count, during a zombie apocalypse, means we will not be seeing that many now that they are going out to sea.

 

It was apparent when the soldiers were firing at the zombies and the bullets kept zinging off the fence and not killing zombies, despite all laws of physics, that the mad skills of Nicotero will not be shared with this show. 

 

The great zombie deaths shown on the mothership are passe for this show.  Certainly Strand will not want his attire stained with bashed in zombie brains.

 

This show has 3 great compelling characters.  Strand, Daniel (The Anti-Santa), and the heroin addict.  All 3 actors are killing it.  Go with your strengths I say.

[TexasChic]

The cars were packed and they were literally climbing in them. There may have been widespread panic, but they would have been gone before the neighbors could do anything except say - we're screwed.

I figured it had to do with the fact that they still had to rescue their people, which required taking the military personnel at the hospital by surprise... or something. The plan was pretty sketchy tbh.

[JemiW]

Finally got around to watching it. (It wasn't high on my to-do list). It had its moments: Exner's despair when the helicopter turns back, Nick showing a crumb of selflessness by telling his Mom thru the glass to save herself. It's not enough to make me want to tune-in for S2. Even the zombie attack was meh...seen it before. How Salazar got the doors of the arena open, I wish they'd shown that instead. I was hoping at least to see some familiar faces lurching along: girl junkie Grace, Lisa's boyfriend, even my man Moyers! He'd have made a great half-eaten zombie soldier.

[JBody]

I agree; like I said before, they got stuck with the military because Madison went back to warn Patrick; also believable but would make her more wary.  *snip*

 

This annoys me.  Not you Raven, nor your post, but I've read here and elsewhere that if it weren't for that darned Maddie showing a sliver of humanity and warning Patrick about his zed-wife they could've bugged out before the evil army showed up.  I call shenanigans on that, because Maddie was packed and ready to leave immediately THE NIGHT BEFORE except stupid Travis wouldn't "let" them go at that time.  Also, her name is short for Madeline (a popular mid-twentieth century girl's name due to the popular mid-twentieth century series of children's books) in my headcannon.  No one was named Madison before 1985.

[Dobian]

I can't get excited about season 2 since it is now just another Walking Dead show.  The onset of the apocalypse is over, and they're now in about the same place in the timeline as when Rick wakes up in TWD.  So you get another show with a group of people on the run in the countryside, except this time it's the California countryside.  Or maybe Strand will take them down to Baja in his boat.  Sun, surf, zombies!  And unfortunately this group just isn't as interesting as the crew in TWD, though that could change as they add and switch out cast members.  But still, it's just going to be more of the same.

[natyxg]

I stole this quote from over on the media thread.  It seriously blows my mind that this how the writers think.  Instead of just admitting, hey, we probably should have shown that being resolved, and Our Heroes DID, of course, close the gate...it's just, hey, I mean, he could have closed it.  Well, did he, or didn't he?  I mean, technically, aliens could have come down and closed it, too.  Madison could have cracked a facial expression.  Anything is possible if you didn't see it, amirite?

 

God, they suck.

 

"As for the neighborhood, we don’t see it on camera, but we went back and forth. There’s actually a version where they just slam through the gate with the truck and knock it over. And the question came up: What about the people in the neighborhood, because they’re basically ringing a dinner bell for the walkers to come in? In my mind, you don’t see it on camera, but because Salazar is able to figure out how to open the gate — we don’t see Travis get out of the truck but he very well could have jumped out and hit that button and closed the gate. I also think it would have been easy enough for a neighbor to have come and pressed the button and closed the gate as well."

 

Goodness gracious, LMAOOOO. Facepalming so hard.

[Yolapukka]

 

I've read here and elsewhere that if it weren't for that darned Maddie showing a sliver of humanity and warning Patrick about his zed-wife they could've bugged out before the evil army showed up.  I call shenanigans on that, because Maddie was packed and ready to leave immediately THE NIGHT BEFORE except stupid Travis wouldn't "let" them go at that time.

 

 

IIRC,  Maddie was ready, but refused to leave the city until Travis returned, despite his urging of her to leave.

 

 I'll argue that the confinement to their neighbourhood worked out in their favour in the short term, given the massive disruption that was spreading due to the riots and undead they may not have made it out of the city at all, never mind alive and further that had they not stopped to warn Patrick, they could have been caught outside their safe zone at the mercy of a martial law situation that seemingly went badly for those who were on the other side of the boundary. Anything bad that happened after that was mostly their own doing: Nick getting taken in because of his active addiction, Daniel torturing Andy, Liza choosing to leave the family for the base and so on. One bad thing thing that didn't happen to them is they weren't stuck in the desert with insufficient food and water that stopped flowing. The most heinous thing we saw anyone do in this show was their stupid and evil plan to free thousands of of walkers in order to bring them to the perimeter of the quarantine compound and distract the military.

 

It says something that the only people I find likeable are a pair of generic teens because they aren't as obviously awful as everyone else around them or that the two characters for whom I have the slightest active interest are a pathetic junkie and a manipulative "master of the universe" who talks a load of pompous shit.

Edited October 9, 2015 by yuggapukka

[maczero]

Either way, they could have attempted to break in quietly instead of bringing Armageddon. If the military were going to leave people behind, they could have helped them. I get trying to save yourself first when you have to, but I don't think they had to, here. They didn't even lock the fence of the community after they left, IIRC, or even warn anyone that the army guys were leaving.

This bugged me as well.  But I think it's just easier to accept that these aren't good people.  Salazar was a torturer before the apocalypse.  Maddie doesn't bother reporting the scene of what looked to be a murder at the church.  They were stealing from the neighbors (Susan and Patrick) before shit really got bad.  Nope, these people ain't good at all.

 

No, I didn't see Strand's mansion on the cliffs. The entire time the camera was panning away, I was like "Where the fuck is the house??" and then as it got further away, I was like "how the fuck did Travis & Madison get down to the beach??". 

Same here.  And is that what Malibu's coastline looks like?  If so, it's ugly.  The oddly shaped boulders, sheer cliff and the graffiti on the rocks makes it one of the most unappealing beaches I've seen.

 

 At least they let the people out of the cages, which no one else did.

True but a big part of me was thinking that they also did it because the escapees would add to the chaos diverting the attention of the zombies and the soldiers.

 

It would have been nice to have seen how Salazar released all those walkers from the stadium safely and how he so nonchalantly lead a zombe horde to the army base/hospital... because that seemed like a superpower.

We've seen the tactic a few times on the parent show.  Zombies are slow so a light jog can put you substantially ahead of them.  Salzar's casual demeanor while leading them though was a bit odd but I still thought it was awesome.

 

Do we know that they can't swim? In WWZ (the book) they walked on the sea floor. We haven't really seen Kirkman's zombies around any major bodies of water...

I'm pretty sure they can't.  Swimming requires coordination that walkers aren't capable of.  As for walking along the bottom, well that helps them get across a relatively small body of water but crossing an ocean seems unlikely.  I imagine they'd get distracted chasing a school of fish or simply falling into a trench.

 

My dad said something kind of like this when the soldiers stole the SUV, and Liza, wounded Ofelia and Daniel were riding in the back of the pick up truck. He asked why theu hadn't just taken another car, since the world had obviously gone to shit and looting is now acceptable. My pathetic attempt at reason was that since Travis and company (except for Daniel, who was probably a bit shell shocked on not thinking about getting a new ride) are so slow to pick up on the way the world is now, the idea that stealing a car is perfectly acceptable probably didn't register for them. 

A simpler answer is most people don't know how to hotwire a car.

 

They need to change the name of this show to: "Only the Assholes Survive".  Really, could this show and the original get anymore predictable?  Anytime someone shows the slightest bit of compassion, a protagonist ends up injured or dies.  Usually the one that isn't an asshole.  Of course the soldier was going to come back and take revenge, and shoot the one person that wanted no part in him being tortured, glad she lived.   Of course Liza got bit.  She can act, and she isn't an asshole. 

I so agree with this.  I realize it takes a certain amount of ruthlessness to survive in a post apocalyptic world but the show seems to drive home the point that being good/moral is a death sentence for you and your loved ones.

 

While a boat would offer safety from walkers, I think getting fresh water to drink would be a major challenge. Plus, you would be limited to fish as a food source. Storms could also be deadly, especially without weather forecasts. I guess you could stay near the shore and look for safe places to land for supply runs.

There are desalination machines.  I suppose a fancy yacht might have one.  As for going on supply runs, you'd have to do that on land as well so no big deal there.  

 

 

[Nashville]

I figured it had to do with the fact that they still had to rescue their people, which required taking the military personnel at the hospital by surprise... or something. The plan was pretty sketchy tbh.

  

Insofar as military strategy has never previously been their forte, I can allow a little slippage.

Of course, they profited greatly from the unexpected benefit that military strategy was apparently not the military's forte as well.... ;>

This bugged me as well.  But I think it's just easier to accept that these aren't good people.  Salazar was a torturer before the apocalypse.  Maddie doesn't bother reporting the scene of what looked to be a murder at the church.  

I'm not a big Maddie fan, but - really? I don't think it would be fair to expect ANY mother to pick up a phone and say:

"Hello, police? I'd like to report evidence of what looks like a murder at the same church where my son got so scared about something yesterday he ran out in traffic and got hit by a car. His name? Nick Clark - he's in the hospital right now. Yes, I'll hold...."

And is that what Malibu's coastline looks like?  If so, it's ugly.  The oddly shaped boulders, sheer cliff and the graffiti on the rocks makes it one of the most unappealing beaches I've seen.

Funny - I don't remember Delaware being on the list of shooting locations....

[Iguessnot]

 

What amazes me is that I only hate Lori half as much as I used to, compared to Madison Clark.

 

Lori really didn't bother me that much. She did a lot of stupid and annoying things, but I felt I was watching a true to life flawed person. With Madison, I don't know how to interpret her facial expression. It is constant and without nuance or context. When Madison refuses to answer point blank questions and registers NOTHING in most situations, I don't feel there's something deep within Madison as the actress tried to imply on TD. I only feel the actress doesn't know her character and/or doesn't know how portray still waters running deep.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Iguessnot

[maczero]

I agree with all the comments about how bad Madison is and all the issues with the show in general. I have never watched TWD so here are 3 questions that popped into my head. If the answers contain anything only shown in TWD, please spoiler tag, per forum rules.

1) IF everyone is ALREADY infected, won't our band of intrepid survivors also turn into Zombies when they die? In essence, everyone WILL become a Zombie? Am I right about? I think being stuck on a boat will be problematic. Will they pass this infection onto offspring?

2) If a Zombie causes you to die by eating you (like the prison guard whose leg was being chomped), and if you are not killed with a head shot, won't you turn into a half eaten Zombie that will go on to try and eat people? How much of a corpse can you be to become a Zombie? Only a head? If you are a Zombie, when your prey turns into a Zombie, is that person no longer palatable?

3) If the ONLY way to kill a Zombie is with a head shot, then why weren't more people reanimating? I guess that I do not understand the virus/infection component, not that the show explained it at all.

 

1)  Everyone being infected is a problem no matter if you're on land or at sea.  Just have to take your chances the person you're sleeping with doesn't die in their sleep.  The good news is that a closed door stops most zombies so if everyone keeps their door closed at night then that should cut down on the carnage.  As for the infection spreading to offspring, we don't know for sure since we've only seen one birth since the series began.  Unless a baby dies and turns (I'm not sure if the show has the guts to go there), we'll probably never get an answer to this question.

2)  Yep.  You're still a zombie despite not having legs, torso or even a body.  I almost feel sorry for the incapacitated ones.  And yes, zombies only eat fresh meat.  That's why they don't attack each other or eat rotten non-zombie corpses.

3)  If you're asking why all the dead haven't risen, then I think it's that the infected have to have been alive sometime in the past few months to actually become a zombie. 

I haven't watched any episodes, and just read this season finale to see how it ended. And ... I still don't get why this show exists, or why people are watching it. All the plot points were variations of what we already saw on TWD, right down to the "I will turn, shot me now" and all the "how various people react when confronted with the end of civilization as they know it" stories. Unless you are a ZA fanatic (and granted, there are some ZA fanatics), what is the appeal of seeing it happen again, but to different people?

A lot of people were hoping for a fall of civilization pov rather than trying to survive in a post apocalyptic world.  We got some of that with this show but not nearly enough.  That said, the story beats for Fear are superficially similar to the parent show.

Agree with your whole post except for the part about being back next season.  One and done for me.

The yacht is dependent on fossil fuel, right?  So is their intent to just bob around in that one spot?  Confusing.

Not any stranger than that there seems to be a near endless supply of usable gas on the parent show.

Why would National Guard soldiers be this evil? I guess you never know what kind of person you truly are until the world falls apart but I find that hard to believe.

I wouldn't say the National Guard soldiers guarding the hospital were evil.  The hospital appeared to be on the up and up.  The detention facilities were questionable but we don't know what most of those people were being held for.  Their superiors and the operation Cobalt stuff might be another matter.  In fact, I'm not quite sure if I understand what Operation Cobalt really is/was.  At first, I thought it was bombing the entire LA area but I don't see how that can be described as "humanely terminating the survivors".  I'm more inclined to believe it's just abandoning the safe zones and humanely putting down civilians at their base (detainees and patients).

In reference to the gate being left open, my thoughts were the military had everyone locked inside the gates so they could be exterminated later when Cobalt went into effect. Torture dude (sorry, bad with names) knew the code - from said torture I'm guessing, so locking the gate behind them would be effectively signing their death warrant. They may have felt it was too risky to tell the neighbors about what was going on, but locking them back up in there doesn't seem right either. Maybe some walkers getting in would alert them to the fact that things are no longer safe, and it's time to find an elsewhere to be. That's what went through my mind as I was watching anyway.

I didn't get the impression that there was a code to the gate.  I just remember seeing three red buttons with three switches above them.  Salazar pushed one of the buttons and the gate opened.  If that was supposed to be a coded entry then it's pretty weak.

Edited October 10, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Added Spoiler tags