Season 3 Discussion

[MissLucas]

I'm really enjoying how Wendy gets more character development. Not only is she a badass nurse she's also a Mensa member. I loved everybody reacting to that bit of info.

Jill bringing a bit of perspective (or rather a lot) to Christy and Bonnie's fight with one single line was a masterclass of great writing and delivery. It was the perfect mix of comedy and drama.

[possibilities]

I've been wondering for a while why bonnie and Christie sleep in one bed when there are clearly 2 bedrooms in the house...?

I was so distracted by that, it kept throwing me out of the episode. All this time since Violet has been gone, they've had two bedrooms! I am going to give the writers a pass because I didn't notice it before, but now that I've got it in my head, it makes no sense at all that they're still sharing a room.

[chocolatine]

52 minutes ago, possibilities said:

 

I was so distracted by that, it kept throwing me out of the episode. All this time since Violet has been gone, they've had two bedrooms! I am going to give the writers a pass because I didn't notice it before, but now that I've got it in my head, it makes no sense at all that they're still sharing a room.

That bothered me too! I actually remember that when they first moved into the apartment, with Violet and Roscoe still living with them full-time, there was a storyline about how there were only two bedrooms, Roscoe had to sleep in a closet, and Violet refused to share, so Christy had to sleep with Bonnie. After Violet moved out, Roscoe got her room, but now that he spends most of his time at Baxter's, there's no reason Christy can't sleep in that room most nights.

While I'm happy that Christy is bettering herself, I question whether law school is a good idea for her. She's in her late thirties and it will take her at least five more years to get through college and then law school. She'll be in her forties with a ton of debt, and even though she's smart and has done well at community college, I don't think she has the potential or personality to become the kind of lawyer who makes big money. She should focus on a shorter and less expensive degree which would give her good job prospects right after graduation.

[Chaos Theory]

18 hours ago, Big Mother said:

 

I've been wondering for a while why bonnie and Christie sleep in one bed when there are clearly 2 bedrooms in the house...?

The show has made a point to say it is Rosco's room.  Yes one of them could move in there temporary or permanent now that Rosco doesn't live there all the time but he does spend nights their and a boy needs his own room.

i honestly think it would be far weirder if Rosco came to stay there for a couple of nights and had to sleep on the couch or found out he didn't have a room in his mother's house.

Violet is fine; she is mostly grown and now engaged.  She doesn't need her own room. Rosco is a kid and a kid rotating homes.  If he didn't feel comfortable in one I can see him not wanting to spend time there.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

The show has made a point to say it is Rosco's room.  Yes one of them could move in there temporary or permanent now that Rosco doesn't live there all the time but he does spend nights their and a boy needs his own room.

i honestly think it would be far weirder if Rosco came to stay there for a couple of nights and had to sleep on the couch or found out he didn't have a room in his mother's house.

Violet is fine; she is mostly grown and now engaged.  She doesn't need her own room. Rosco is a kid and a kid rotating homes.  If he didn't feel comfortable in one I can see him not wanting to spend time there.

Of course Roscoe should sleep in his own room when he stays with Christy. But when he's not there, which is most of the time, and was certainly the case in the most recent episode, why shouldn't Christy sleep in his bed, rather than share one with Bonnie? It's not like she needs to keep the room a shrine to him.

[Bastet]

I can definitely understand keeping the room decorated as Roscoe's room, rather than Christy or Bonnie moving all their stuff in there; he's supposed to have two homes, and if he feels like he's a guest crashing in someone else's room at Christy and Bonnie's, that's not really going to feel like a proper home (of course, the kid slept in a closet, so ...).  But why share a bed when you don't have to?  I would think Christy would go sleep in Roscoe's room when he's not there.

I only watch this show sporadically (which I should probably rectify, because it always makes me laugh, I like the cast, and I love the relationships among all the female characters), and I wasn't home this week, but for once I recorded it because I am dying to see the Allison Janney/Richard Schiff walk-and-talk reunion.

[Big Mother]

Supposing they don;t want to use Roscoe's room, the upstairs bedroom is big enough for two twin beds. I'd find it extremely weird to share a bed with my mother. I'd rather sleep on the couch, or on an air mattress or army cot.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Big Mother

[Cosmic Muffin]

Tough but good episode tonight; Violet is an alcoholic too. Not surprising, but I wish she had known she didn't have the genes or upbringing to experiment with drugs or alcohol (and yes, I know she's fictional). It hit home. 

[TVFAN]

More Linda Lavin please!  She is always a joy to watch.

[jjj]

What is going on with this thread?  Many multiple posts!

Seriously, $4000 for a wedding dress, when Christie is sharing a bed with her mother?  And when they are taking food home from the ex-fiancé?  I didn't think she could have put her hands on $400, let along $4000. 

[GrtGzu]

Is Roscoe going to sleep in the closet again when he comes to visit since Violet's moved back in?

 

Linda Lavin was absolutely PRICELESS!! Need to see more of her....

[Blakeston]

I'm not sure how I feel about a storyline about Violet as an alcoholic.

On one hand, I think this show is at its best when it's super-dark, and when it deals with alcoholism. And seeing Christy dealing with this news could be pretty interesting.

But on the other hand...Violet is just so unbearable.

[Chaos Theory]

I don't think they confined one way or another that Violet was an alcoholic.  The discussion at the diner was an interesting one.  The women who had gone to college talking about their friends who had drank just as much if not more then them that turned out just fine.  Violet can go either way and I like that the show is saying that and leaving it that way for now.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Chaos Theory
Division of fiber? Really autocorrect?

[momtoall]

Quote

...Violet is just so unbearable.

ITA.  I really like this show but if Violet is going become a focal point I may have to bail.  I really can stand the character.

[Blakeston]

35 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I don't think they confined one way or another that Violet was an alcoholic.  The discussion at the diner was an interesting one.  The women who had gone to college talking about their friends who had drank just as much if not more then them that turned out just fine.  Violet can go either way and I like that the show is saying that and leaving it that way for now.

I don't think anyone is saying that Violet is 100% for sure an alcoholic.

But it seems like the direction they're headed in. I say that partially because this is a TV show, and the storyline would be poignant and juicy.

And partially because the evidence suggests it. For schlubby Gregory to dump his hot young fiancee just before the wedding, most likely because he feels her drinking and partying has gotten out of control - that says a lot. Her responding by showing up at his place in the middle of the night drunk out of her mind says a lot, too.

Plus, we know she has a genetic predisposition for substance abuse. And when Christy asked her about it, she responded in classic addict fashion, by getting offended and then trying to turn it around on her.

[MissLucas]

Damn, I don't want Violet to be an alcoholic - I was really impressed when she gave up her baby in order 'to break the cycle'. If she now gets her own substance abuse plot that sends an incredibly nihilistic message.

[Bastet]

Jungle Juice!  That brought on some high school house party flashbacks.

I also really wanted ribs.

I'm undecided on which way they're going to go with Violet, and I like that none of them are really jumping to one conclusion or another.  I love Bonnie's, "I'm not going to tell you [you're an alcoholic] ... I am going to tell you you have vomit in your hair, so draw your own conclusions," but then she also says later she thinks this is going to turn out to be something less than history repeating itself. 

And, yes, more Linda Lavin, please.  They left the door open for that with Christy saying they can still be friends even though they're not going to be in-laws (followed by the predictable but amusing "I'm standing right here" bit about Christy needing a mom).

[iMonrey]

I totally agree about Linda Lavin. I was one of the few people who watched Sean Hayes' short-lived sitcom where she played his mother, and boy that lady's still got it. She should have her own show. And if Violet and her boyfriend are broken up for good, we're not likely to see her again.

On the other hand, if they're going to bring Violet back into the story, I'd love for her to reunite with her stoner baby-daddy from the first season. I think his name was Luke (?) - he was hilarious.

[jewel21]

I liked Luke as well and was sad when he was written out.

I enjoyed this episode and loved seeing Alison Janey eating everything in sight, haha.

Also, didn't Linda Lain play the Nana on "The O.C." years ago? I loved her there as well.

[wendyg]

I think the fact that Violet lied about the reason for the breakup is indicative of a problem. But I think it's really interesting to see Bonnie and Christy struggle with the question of whether she's an alcoholic or not. As they say, only she can decide that. And I think the storyline has a lot of potential because now, sober, they're going to have to go through the pain that in the past they have inflicted on others (including each other).

 

Unlike a lot of people here, I've always loved Violet as a character. I think it's perfectly reasonable that she's been sour given the way she grew up, and she clearly has a softer side to her nature that she's readily displayed with Roscoe. So if she's going to back as a regular next season I'm pretty happy about it. Bonnie and Christy are going to need a new challenge and a new source of conflict now that their relationship has settled into a much more comfortable rhythm. I agree that it might have been more natural for Violet, who's always seemed somewhat sensible, to have avoided drink and drugs, but *so many* people resist learning that they can't do what their peers are doing because of their genetics and family backgrounds.

[possibilities]

Sometimes children of addicts become totally abstinent, but other times they tell themselves they can handle it and don't have a problem because their perspective is skewed-- i.e. they're not as extremely fucked up and dysfunctional as their parents, so they think they're coping well. If you've never seen healthy models, you may think you're okay as long as you're not puking and passing out in your vomit all the time, and haven't ruined every relationship and opportunity. After all, Violet only has one broken engagement, and she's made some good choices, so she's not "like her mom who had many such disasters and nothing to show for herself"-- I think the same faulty logic is why Bonnie and Christy are also unsure-- how bad does it have to be before it's a problem? And do they have the right to call a bluff when they themselves are barely lucid?

I think this is an interesting direction for the show to explore.

[ShellSeeker]

Hi everyone, there were quite a few duplicate posts, which I went ahead and deleted to clean up the thread.

[wendyg]

Also - one thing the show really has skipped over is Al-Anon. Both Bonnie and Christy, who've had to deal with their daughter's/mother's alcoholism, qualify as people whose lives have been affected by someone else's drinking. I recognize the problem in that there's only so many regular characters you can have, but it would be good to see them encounter that side of things.

[backformore]

On ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 1:25 AM, jjj said:

What is going on with this thread?  Many multiple posts!

Seriously, $4000 for a wedding dress, when Christie is sharing a bed with her mother?  And when they are taking food home from the ex-fiancé?  I didn't think she could have put her hands on $400, let along $4000. 

Yeah, I really hate the idea, reinforced by all those "Say Yes to the Dress"  shows, that parents, if they really care about their daughters, will pay a ton of money they can't afford for a DRESS.  Was she going to max out a bunch of credit cards to pay for the WEDDING, too?   People need priorities, and the short-sighted view of the WEDDING as the be-all and end-all event is ridiculous.  The wedding is just the party to celebrate the marriage. 

I was late getting into this show, started to love it, but stuff like this makes me dislike the characters.

[Snow Apple]

I forgot the exact quote, but I thought it was very interesting when Christy said she thought Violet now had someone else to take care of her or is someone else's problem. She's now very disappointed that fell though. I thought that kind of feeling was very.......real.

[Bastet]

I think that was when she was talking to Linda Lavin, saying she always liked Gregory, even though she had doubts about the relationship.  I think it's after that when she says she liked Violet having someone to take care of her.  Which is problematic on more than one level, certainly, but also makes sense for Christy to say.

[jbrecken]

If Violet's single now, they can match her off with Jodi's boyfriend.

[wendyg]

Backformore: while I certainly agree with you in general, in this specific case I think it fit the character that Christy would be manipulated into spending money she didn't have. She's still carrying a huge load of guilt toward Violet as well as anger and resentment towards Bonnie, who knew exactly which buttons to push. That said, I don't think they really needed it to up the stakes on this particular wedding, but it does set up some interesting dynamics around Christy's needing money to pay her tuition and Violet's having put her further in the hole.

[Chaos Theory]

Its not very feminist but I have heard parents of both genders say that very same statement about their daughters.  "I'm glad you have someone to take care of you."  Its not meant to be anything really.  I didn't think it was Christy pushing off her daughter on someone else or being upset that Violet was now her problem again I think it is more exactly what she said being happy that her daughter had someone.  

[Bastet]

In setting up to record tonight's episode, I read the description -- something about Christy becoming discouraged when she "discovers" how expensive it will be to become a lawyer.

Is the fact that the cost of earning a bachelor's degree plus a J.D. degree adds up to a lot of money really a surprise to anyone?

(I don't mean that I think the story line will be stupid; I'm just griping about the stupid word choice in my program guide's description.)

Edited May 20, 2016 by Bastet

[manicbutterfly]

Maybe I missed something, but in tonight's episode why do Bonnie and Christie put their hands to their head every time they mention God? Kind of like when you have a headache lol.

Edited May 20, 2016 by manicbutterfly

[jewel21]

Bonnie made a comment at one point that every time Cat lady (forgot her name) mentions God or any of her positive sayings she gets a pain in her head and then it sort of became a running gag.

[manicbutterfly]

Thanks jewel21, guess I missed that!

[possibilities]

Did you all read the vanity card at the end? Apparently, execs are unhappy that the show doesn't attract "enough" male viewers. Lorre's analysis of this problem is pretty awesome.

[kelslamu]

CHUCK LORRE PRODUCTIONS, #534

Thank you for watching the season finale of Mom. We are all deeply grateful for your support. That being said, I've been told by some worried Warner Bros. executives that the show does not do as well with men as it does with women. As you can imagine, this is cause for concern. From the very first episode, our purpose was to cause laughter and, when appropriate, touch on some serious subjects. It was never our intent to exclude an entire gender. So where did we go wrong? Is it possible that the title "Mom" pushed male viewers away? Should we have named the show, "Alcoholic Nymphos"? Seems a little extreme. Perhaps we should consider starting next season with a series of wacky yet heartbreaking episodes featuring drug-addled porn stars, and the Ferrari-driving, gun-toting NFL players who love them? Hmmm... maybe. Or we can simply continue to make the show we love and the show we're proud of, knowing that nothing good ever came from pandering to people’s baser instincts. Except for Two and a Half Men, that was pretty good.

[clarkbar]

Just watched the season finale.  For a show that, from the beginning, I had no intention of watching, much less liking, I'm all in.  I despised "Two and a Half Men," so had no good expectations for this show.  Boy, was I wrong.

[random chance]

I read somewhere (maybe in this thread) that they said the success of shows like Men is what allowed them to do shows like this.  I didn't expect to love this show but I do, and I'm glad it was allowed to figure itself out instead of being yanked off the air at the first sign that 18-year-old boys weren't watching.

[MaryMitch]

Network executives must be idiots. Women spend more money than men, and older people spend more money than younger ones. I don't understand why a show that has more women viewers than men (or "skews to older viewers") is a bad thing.

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, MaryMitch said:

Network executives must be idiots. Women spend more money than men, and older people spend more money than younger ones. I don't understand why a show that has more women viewers than men (or "skews to older viewers") is a bad thing.

When it comes to the age issue, corporations will pay more to advertise on shows with young viewers because young people have fewer brand loyalties.

By the time people are older, they've decided for the most part which brands they like. You're unlikely to covince a sixty-something consumer, who's been drinking Coke for more than fifty years, to switch to Pepsi. But if you can convince a kid that Pepsi is the coolest soft drink, then that kid could easily be a Pepsi drinker for life.

[wendyg]

Sure, but there *are* new products to sell older people too, and your needs and tastes do change. There are opportunities, if you're smart about them.

It's sad to think the network execs would have been happier if the show had been called DAD and if every week there were six men on the screen, three of them over 40. But I think between TWO AND A HALF MEN and THE BIG BANG THEORY Lorre has earned the latitude to do pretty much what he wants. MOM doesn't have TBBT's numbers (yet), but its ratings have been rising slowly but surely and I would expect it to do well in syndication. The number of people with Lorre's kind of track record is tiny. CBS ought to recognize they're lucky he hasn't gone off to play on Netflix or somewhere.

wg

[SanDiegoInExile]

I thought that was a dreadful season finale. I know that drugs mess with your mind, but did Christy think 4-6 years of education would cost a couple hundred bucks?  Maybe she hasn't read a newspaper or watched any television news --- or talked to any other student in her (community college) class?   

On the positive side, I am glad that rich girl Jill didn't just write her a check.  I sorta feared that would be part of the storyline.

I've had the pleasure (?) of knowing a couple addicts in my life, and the one thing they are expert at is finding a way  to get some cash.  In that regard, Bonnie was exactly in character.

I suppose that was supposed to be the Big Payoff for the season finale.  Admittedly, it's better than a relapse.  Though honestly, I expected something mega-major to happen....  like Violet torching their apartment building, or Violet wrecking the car and injuring/killing her half-brother, or Violet actually getting married to some dweeb in Reno.  At least Marjorie didn't die.  

[Big Mother]

I NEED A MARJORIE IN MY LIFE. That woman is perfection.

[wendyg]

I can see where someone focused on a long-term goal might not have thought past the first big step on the journey to the details of how she was going to manage the rest. I'm not sure Christy believed she was actually going to succeed in community college (and her excitement when she does suggests this). They had to tackle the issue somehow, and I think the emotional side of it is realistic - that successes often are accompanied by new problems and aren't solutions in themselves, just changes. It's often said that addicts stay at the emotional/developmental age they were when they started using whatever it was, and Christy was a (from the sounds of it) young teenager when she started drinking. It's really not surprising that thinking through and planning aren't her strong suit. If you think about it, this episode provided a very good example of why AA has the slogan "one day at a time" - the other women gave her very good (and very AA) advice about breaking the problem down into more manageable chunks and recognizing that she doesn't have to solve the whole thing at once.  And then, because they're friends, they tried to help her find solutions.

Viewed that way, unfortunately the wedding dress was merely a plot point to heighten Christy's financial need. I think they could have dispensed with it, and I wish they had - Violet has been established as being more realistic and responsible than her mother, in general. btw, I thought Sadie Calvano was amazing in that dope-smoking scene. She *couldn't* have looked more stoned.

Edited May 23, 2016 by wendyg

[Chaos Theory]

Christy is someone who has never succeeded at much so I can most definetly see her plan big goals and forget the details like money.   It will be interesting to see her succeed more and more only to realize the more she suceeds the more little details there are to remember.

Plus i llove that Christy wants to help the downtrotten and Bonnie's line about being the downtrotten.

As for Violet I think she has been an adult because she had to be because her mother was not.  I think that was part of the reason for the teenage pregnancy and the older boyfriend.  The minute she is off on her own with no one to be responsible to or for she starts not only acting like a teenager she goes full on Bonnie.  

Edited May 24, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[qtpye]

On 1/15/2016 at 1:15 PM, iMonrey said:

Wow, Candace's true colors really came out this week. If she'd kept her big trap shut Christie never would have gone out with her father in the first place let alone discover she actually liked him and wanted to continue seeing him. Loved the parting shot "I got to drive a Ferrari."  I wonder if this is going to spell the end of Candace and Baxter. I always found it kind of unrealistic she took this stoner/loser in and rehabilitated him so quickly.

 

 

On 1/20/2016 at 1:28 PM, kelslamu said:

Love Allison Janney.  Was surprised Kristi didn't say that her father pursued her not the other way around.  

 

On 1/22/2016 at 10:36 AM, MaryMitch said:

I'm glad Christy broke up with Fred - after that dinner with Christy and his daughter, I disliked him too.  But my goodness, Harry Hamlin is looking gooooood these days!

 

Sara Rue did a great job bringing some sympathy to her character too.

 

And, just fyi for anyone out there - don't eat with bleaching cream on your face. And don't sleep in it, either; you will get a bad chemical burn.

 

On 1/22/2016 at 1:40 PM, iMonrey said:

Well they ended the Harry Hamlin arc a lot quicker than I would have liked. I think it would have been more interesting to see Christy struggle with her feelings for Fred and her desire not to ruin Baxter and Candace's relationship for the sake of her son, rather than just having Fred turn out to be a dick (and so quickly, too). But maybe they could only get Harry Hamlin for a couple of episodes. 

 

He really wasn't that much of a dick, until he told Christy she didn't have any business giving parenting advice. As far as his daughter goes, he has every right to feel about her however he wants to feel about her. Clearly she's spoiled rotten and unappreciative. He had a point that she's had every advantage and all she does is walk around looking down her nose at everyone else. His only real transgression was ridiculing her in front of company.

 

On 1/22/2016 at 5:39 PM, Jazz42 said:

Actually I thought the point of the storyline was to get a better perspective on Candance. To show the reason behind her bitchiness. Fred and to a point Roscoe were secondary to the story.

 

On 1/23/2016 at 2:56 AM, Irlandesa said:

Would not have mattered. They all witnessed Fred meeting Kristi. They saw him invite her onto the golf course. It was obvious who did the pursuing. It's easier for Candice to see it the other way and no amount of truth would dent her perception.

And I second how frustrating it is for Kristi to not have some good things happen to her for a change. I knew she wouldn't get a rich boyfriend for long as it would upset the balance of what this show wants to portray but damn I wish it could have lasted longer. I love why she ended it but damn.

 

On 1/23/2016 at 4:30 PM, Blakeston said:

As much as Sarah Rue is great in the role, I really hope we don't see as much of Candace now that Christy's broken up with her father.

 

This show just loves having people around to treat Christy like garbage. Now that Violet isn't around much, and we rarely see Christy at the restaurant, and Bonnie isn't being nearly as mean to Christy as she was early in the series, it seems like they decided that Candace should fill that role. 

 

On 1/27/2016 at 7:55 PM, Chaos Theory said:

I have a theory on Candace. Candace's father seems impressed that Christy made something of herself inspite of her past. I think he is disappointed that with everything he gave Candace she hasn't really done anything with it. Does she even work at the car dealership that Baxter works at? I think Candace is the one who is actually jealous because Christy has gotten has far as she has with as little as she has and Candace has no idea how.

I just watched this arc in reruns.  I love Anna Faris and Sara Rue.

That being said, is it wrong that I agreed with the Dad?

I do not think he spoiled Candace, just gave her all the advantages he could and is disgusted that she thinks she is better then people who have to work for a living.

The reason Candace can be a super mom to Baxter is because she can give him material luxuries and time, because she does not have to work like Christy, so  she can do things like volunteer at the school.

Also, it is true, Christy has no room to judge.  She has spent most of her children's lives drunk and out of control.  She even gambled away the rent in the first season and it was not that long ago.

There is good reason that the children do not want to live with her.  I think this arc was just meant for Candace's character to look bad.  To me, I always liked Candace and was very impressed that she was such a good stepmother to Roscoe.  However, when she came to Christie's door and said Christie had no right to better herself with the father, I wanted to slap her.  Why is okay for Baxter to better his life through her, but Christie can not do the same?

Edited February 15, 2018 by qtpye

[Kiddvideo]

I tried to watch this show several seasons and I hated it. Hated. But then it moved into syndication and there was nothing on, so I watched it, but I didn’t hate it. I kinda liked it. Why did I hate it, I wondered. Then I saw early repeats and figured it out: I hated Violet. Maybe it was bc she was a stereotypical angry teen or maybe it was a 4th failed generation, I don’t know, but watching the struggles of Bonnie, Christy, et al without her was a better show.

So why do I post this in Season 3? Just watched the episode when Bonnie “met” Adam. I thought it was hopeful. Bonnie was upfront with her history of addiction though Adam hadn’t talked about his accident. I think when he left her at the restaurant and then came forward with his own fears, she realized everyone worried about being accepted. It was a huge growth moment, and that became the show I like. 

Edited February 18, 2020 by Kiddvideo
ETA: corrected editing errors.