Mark & Nikki: Touch That Window, Lose Your Hand

[charmed1]

I'm so curious about Mark's wife now. You may have heard of her. She's the one who changed immediately and left Mark with 4 kids in diapers? I'll bet she's got some stories to tell. And I hope they're not from beyond the grave. I can't imagine what it was like living with Mark 20 years ago. I wonder how she escaped.

[3girlsforus]

I'm so curious about Mark's wife now. You may have heard of her. She's the one who changed immediately and left Mark with 4 kids in diapers? I'll bet she's got some stories to tell. And I hope they're not from beyond the grave. I can't imagine what it was like living with Mark 20 years ago. I wonder how she escaped.

 

I would love TLC to dump a truckload of money on her doorstep for an interview. Also - for David Jessop - Robyn Brown's first husband. The two of them in back-to-back interviews: that's a 2 hour special I would watch

[Cherrio]

I watched the tell all again and focused on Nikki's face.   Almost every time she answered yes or was saying something positive about their relationship/Mark her head was shaking no.   That is body language 101.

           I also agree with the poster who said that Mark gives off the vibe of being physically abusive.  He reacted so quickly to the host with an attitude, condensation and annoyance I wonder what a little more pressure would bring?    He seems like he is always at the boiling point.

           I think he also probably threatens Nikki with sending her back on a daily basis, reminding her she has no money, no nothing.

[RCharter]

I'm so curious about Mark's wife now. You may have heard of her. She's the one who changed immediately and left Mark with 4 kids in diapers? I'll bet she's got some stories to tell. And I hope they're not from beyond the grave. I can't imagine what it was like living with Mark 20 years ago. I wonder how she escaped.

Did she really leave him with 4 kids in diapers?

 

Well that completely explains his need for a child bride to emotionally abuse.  At least Nikki isn't in diapers.

   He seems like he is always at the boiling point.

           I think he also probably threatens Nikki with sending her back on a daily basis, reminding her she has no money, no nothing.

I think thats a given.  Any man willing to do that foul shit on national TV is doing it 10x worse in the privacy and comfort of his creepy house.

Edited December 8, 2015 by RCharter

[Raja]

I watched the tell all again and focused on Nikki's face. Almost every time she answered yes or was saying something positive about their relationship/Mark her head was shaking no. That is body language 101.

Body language is not universal. Filipinos no is a quick head nod down. Edited December 8, 2015 by Raja

[jujuebes]

 

All aboard the abuse train!

[okerry]

Yes. The only people on this show I heard say anything remotely "complaining" about America on the show were Noon reflecting on having to step over urine on Bourbon Street/cockroaches in Kyle's apartment and Aleksandra lamenting the lack of places to dance in Rexburg both valid complaints that had nothing to do with America. They might have all mentioned missing home and family but that isn't remotely the same. And Nikki only mentioned briefly missing her family.

Nikki' s complaints have been nearly all about Mark and her not wanting to be constantly having him referencing his ex-wife at every turn which would be equally annoying in any country on earth.

I just wonder how many of the fiances are in the United States because they have a real love for America and the American (yes, United States) lifestyle. There is a difference between "I love the United States and I am willing to place my loyalty to it above my loyalty to my birth nation," and "I'm only here to get married and get a Better Life ." 

[guilfoyleatpp]

I don't think Mark does introspection or empathy well.  It takes a special kind of clueless to take on 100 (IF NOT MORE) dates with the same recipe, have every single one of them go bad, and then NOT realize that you're the problem. As a woman who chose not to get married until I was in my 30's, I met a lot of dudes like Mark. The belief that there is a play book that will allow them access to your girly bits. That you would "owe" them if they did it right. That dating is a pre-determined game where if they made the right moves (from the roses/dinner/candies) playbook, they will win your heart.

 

But here's the thing - women aren't robots or a video game or something you earn by being a good boy. People aren't a reward for you doing "everything right."  It's a crap shoot.  And I totally get that Mark is full of rage that he can't easily get something he feels that he's earned. And that rage comes across the TV. No one wants to be in the way of that rage and entitlement. But he's not treating Nikki like she's a human being with wants and needs of her own. And that's scary. It's scary for Nikki and it's scary for other women who have crossed his path.  He might be a really good dad. He loves to be paternal and the font of wisdom. But you are supposed to date your PEERS.

 

I don't know exactly what Nikki's deal is. Desperate? Naive? If she's playing a long game she's a lot more patient than I was at that age, but ok. 

ETA: I think it might partially be a function of his age. There are more than a few dudes at the tail end of the boomer generation who feel that they should get the things they want...just because. Just because a lot of things fell into their laps their entire lives. So why shouldn't a hot mate be one of the things they are entitled to?

Edited December 8, 2015 by guilfoyleatpp

[nenya]

Ugh. So long after the show, and I'm still feeling grossed out by it.

 

Did anyone notice in Hawaii, Mark and Nikki were dressed the same? Do you think he did the whole matching picture thing? Is this his moves, done over and over? The posters who said that Nikki could be anyone are right on. He doesn't seem to care about the woman, just what she could do for him. For most of the other couples, they showed them doing things for the person doing the sacrificing. Kyle did the most (new home, the temple, giving her a Thai wedding, the skydiving, big proposal, etc). Josh learned some Russian, took her dancing (even though it didn't go as expected), learned a few moves for the wedding dance, and hosted her parents. Heck, even self-absorbed Loren took Alexei to the beach, and places they enjoyed.

 

But what did Mark do for Nikki that was for Nikki? That was of interest to her, that excited her, that was just for her. Yeah, you can get annoyed that she just sits there, but did he even take her anywhere? Help her meet people outside his daughter? Take her out dancing, or buy her books she might enjoy, or help her take a class to work on her English (it's not bad, but I'm not sure how much depth of language she has)? They certainly didn't show any of it if he did, and it didn't seem like it came up in the reunion.

 

I hope if we hear about them again, she has managed to establish an independent life. How much do you want to bet he expected ex-wife to watch the sunrise with him, when she was up all night with 4 babies in diapers?

[jujuebes]

Ugh. So long after the show, and I'm still feeling grossed out by it.

 

Did anyone notice in Hawaii, Mark and Nikki were dressed the same? Do you think he did the whole matching picture thing? Is this his moves, done over and over? The posters who said that Nikki could be anyone are right on. He doesn't seem to care about the woman, just what she could do for him. For most of the other couples, they showed them doing things for the person doing the sacrificing. Kyle did the most (new home, the temple, giving her a Thai wedding, the skydiving, big proposal, etc). Josh learned some Russian, took her dancing (even though it didn't go as expected), learned a few moves for the wedding dance, and hosted her parents. Heck, even self-absorbed Loren took Alexei to the beach, and places they enjoyed.

 

But what did Mark do for Nikki that was for Nikki? That was of interest to her, that excited her, that was just for her. Yeah, you can get annoyed that she just sits there, but did he even take her anywhere? Help her meet people outside his daughter? Take her out dancing, or buy her books she might enjoy, or help her take a class to work on her English (it's not bad, but I'm not sure how much depth of language she has)? They certainly didn't show any of it if he did, and it didn't seem like it came up in the reunion.

 

I hope if we hear about them again, she has managed to establish an independent life. How much do you want to bet he expected ex-wife to watch the sunrise with him, when she was up all night with 4 babies in diapers?

Mark has kept his knight in shining armor promise; lets her stay under HIS roof, in HIS bed, eat HIS food, all under HIS protection!

 

If that isn't love, then I better find a better way to show my dog that I love her.

 

 

What was Mark thinking doing this show, he really must think he is a catch.

[GracieK]

He DOES think he's a catch because he does all the right things like provide flowers and dinners!  Because women are droids who can't think for themselves and have no need to care about things like compatibility, personality, intelligence, or chemistry. It's all about following a manual properly because we're all the same!  (Well except those of us in the US who someone broke out of our robot constraints and got too independent).  

[lavenderpenguin]

I just wonder how many of the fiances are in the United States because they have a real love for America and the American (yes, United States) lifestyle. There is a difference between "I love the United States and I am willing to place my loyalty to it above my loyalty to my birth nation," and "I'm only here to get married and get a Better Life ." 

 

Serious question: why does it matter?

 

I'm sure that some of the fiancés love the United States and want to live here -- but then, I'm sure that there are others who love their to-be spouses and have made the decision to live in the U.S. to be with them. And that's fine, too. I think Noon falls into that category, because she mentioned during the Tell-All that she had asked Kyle to move to Thailand, and they had explored potentially moving back sometime in the future. And that's okay. If I fell in love with someone in Ireland for instance, and that was the ONLY reason I was moving to Ireland -- not because I genuinely wanted to live in Ireland and/or be an Irish citizen -- that would be alright. I don't think that means I should not be allowed to move there.

 

I don't know, I think it's a bit of much to scrutinize every immigrant's intentions and "love of America" when there are plenty of US-born citizens who don't care about their citizenship and/or aren't very patriotric, either.

 

I can only hope Nikki manages to find a way to leave Mark sooner than later. He seems abusive, mean, and controlling -- with little to no self-awareness of just how insufferable and entitled he comes off. His barely contained rage during the Tell-All confirmed that he's as awful as they portrayed him on the show.

Edited December 8, 2015 by lavenderpenguin

[guilfoyleatpp]

He DOES think he's a catch because he does all the right things like provide flowers and dinners!  Because women are droids who can't think for themselves and have no need to care about things like compatibility, personality, intelligence, or chemistry. It's all about following a manual properly because we're all the same!  (Well except those of us in the US who someone broke out of our robot constraints and got too independent).  

RIght? If you're too independent you don't realize that what you really want is for someone like Mark to bring you flowers, make his version of his favorite meals, tell you what you want, buy you what he wants you to have, and endure his superiority. I mean, appreciate his superiority. You should totally love that. And if you don't, you're too independent! You're too American!

 

As an aside, anyone else remember the reality show guy who sent his kid in the balloon and called the police? He also had a wife from East Asia and made similar comments about "American women." It's a little creepy, like the have meetings or something to discuss how awful women are, especially American women, and then go on to extol the virtues of the East Asian woman. 

 

[cooksdelight]

And let's not forget Mark's shelf full of books on divorce. He's an expert, he thinks. "I hope I don't have to use these again..."

[okerry]

Serious question: why does it matter?

Because a fundamental difference in national loyalty can cause a huge rift between spouses. As I mentioned, I've seen this IRL. GIs who bring over Asian brides often run into this, and when it's bad, it's bad.

 

RIght? If you're too independent you don't realize that what you really want is for someone like Mark to bring you flowers, make his version of his favorite meals, tell you what you want, buy you what he wants you to have, and endure his superiority. I mean, appreciate his superiority. You should totally love that.

 

***No, you should totally trade lots of sex for all that, because that is the only reason why he's doing it!

Edited December 8, 2015 by okerry

[lavenderpenguin]

IMHO, Nikki got exactly the man she deserves.

 

I think they were conning each other and Mark turned out to be better at it -- for the moment, anyway.

 

No one deserves to be mistreated and controlled -- and that's what Mark is doing.

 

When we first met Nikki, I was impressed at how affectionate she was with Mark. She was initiating kisses, smiling, and even decided to forgo the guest bedroom. She WAS making a real effort to please Mark and be a good fianceé, even if her feelings and "love" for Mark aren't 100% genuine. She was holding up her end of the bargain. But Mark was being negative, controlling, and critical at every turn (not to mention incessantly referring to his ex), so I don't think Nikki "got what she deserved" -- she wasn't trying to con him (or at least I don't believe so) because when she first came here, she seemed willing and ready to happily play by the role of a doting girlfriend/wife for Mark.

Edited December 8, 2015 by lavenderpenguin

[AussieBabe]

Remember the story he was telling Nikki about the "beautiful woman" in Hawaii while en route to Ocean City? I wonder why he chose Hawaii as the ceremony venue. Hoping to see this mystery lady?

And in regards to the ex-wife, he's full of shit. They were together from at least 1987 (that colour coordinated picture) to somewhere been 94-96. She didn't suddenly change if she stuck around for all those years. It's not like she split after getting her green card and left the kiddos high and dry.

[NikSac]

But what did Mark do for Nikki that was for Nikki? That was of interest to her, that excited her, that was just for her. Yeah, you can get annoyed that she just sits there, but did he even take her anywhere? Help her meet people outside his daughter? Take her out dancing, or buy her books she might enjoy, or help her take a class to work on her English (it's not bad, but I'm not sure how much depth of language she has)? They certainly didn't show any of it if he did, and it didn't seem like it came up in the reunion.

 

Well, he took her dress shopping in New York City, let her find a gown she loved, then made her feel too guilty to buy it. And he bought her a car - you know, the same kind that his ex-wife had.  And a trip to the beach that he and his ex wife used to go to all the time, too!  Those were all for her, right?  </sarcasm>

[lavenderpenguin]

Because a fundamental difference in national loyalty can cause a huge rift between spouses. As I mentioned, I've seen this IRL. GIs who bring over Asian brides often run into this, and when it's bad, it's bad.

 

It could. Or it couldn't. If you are marrying a foreigner, I think it's ridiculous to expect that their "national loyalty" will change overnight. It's bizarre to fall in love with someone from a different culture/place and then expect those cultural markers and background (that make the person you *love* who they are -- we see this with Noon's Thai background and love of her home/culture/religion MAKE her the person that Kyle fell in love with) to all but disappear because they have made the sacrifice to leave their homeland for you.

 

To do so, frankly, speaks less of love and smacks of trying to mold/change someone to fit your own specifications -- and THAT's likely why those marriages fail. The bottom line here seems to be that there are far too many men (like Mark!) who target women from impoverished backgrounds (making them vulnerable) and bring them to America, and expect to craft them into their ideal women. And then are shocked when it horribly backfires! It's not about national loyalty -- it's about having reasonable expectations of the people you love, and actually loving the person they are (which includes their loyalties/background/culture).

 

Here's what it comes down to for me: if you're venturing abroad to find a spouse, you'd better be okay with them not being 100% American (because guess what, even if they move here FOR YOU, they're still never going to be 100% American and that should be okay with you because you fell in love with a non-American!) -- and if national loyalty is ~such a big deal~ then there are plenty of single people to date/marry in the country. The GIs you know sound like they were expecting something totally unrealistic, and it's no surprise their marriages are a mess.

[nenya]

Ha, NikSac, so true! He did do those things just for her! She should kiss the ground he walks on! What a specimen! 

 

Seriously, though, Mark seems like a pretty decent dad. I think his kids have a good relationship with him. His daughter seems maybe a little uncomfortable (how awkward was proposing to the near child bride in front of his daughter), but certainly not unhappy.

 

I take back the italicized part, because further down there is evidence this might not be the case. And in retrospect, the fact that his sons didn't meet Nikki until well after there were wed further suggests my assertion was incorrect. 

 

So, is this what he would want for her? When he goes about these diatribe about fat, unhappy women, about 35 being over the hill, what message is he sending his daughter? Is he telling her she's past her prime, because even he as an older man wants a 19 year old, someone younger than his kid? What happens if she chooses not to marry until her 30s? Is he going to tell her she isn't going to be good enough anymore?

 

I just continue to be grossed out.

 

As for the whole immigrant thing, well, this country was founded on the idea that it was the land of opportunity. Even the Native American may have "immigrated" here at some point (I don't remember enough history to know if they definitively know this or not). If that is true, then this whole country was built by immigrants. It is impossible, no matter how you come here, to completely leave your cultural roots behind, nor would I want to. But most of us become a hybrid of our two countries and cultures. That is why so many of us stick around, even if there is an opportunity to go back. :) (Although, I'm definitely more American than anything else.)

Edited December 9, 2015 by nenya

[millennium]

No one deserves to be mistreated and controlled -- and that's what Mark is doing.

 

When we first met Nikki, I was impressed at how affectionate she was with Mark. She was initiating kisses, smiling, and even decided to forgo the guest bedroom. She WAS making a real effort to please Mark and be a good fianceé, even if her feelings and "love" for Mark aren't 100% genuine. She was holding up her end of the bargain. But Mark was being negative, controlling, and critical at every turn (not to mention incessantly referring to his ex), so I don't think Nikki "got what she deserved" -- she wasn't trying to con him (or at least I don't believe so) because when she first came here, she seemed willing and ready to happily play by the role of a doting girlfriend/wife for Mark.

 

She knowingly and willingly sold her future to Mark.  Even after it became painfully apparent that Mark is damaged goods, she signed that prenup, she happily accepted his ring, she reaffirmed her willingness to forgo children, and she showed up on that beach.   Her priorities are clear.

 

No tears for Nikki.   Sorry.

[still hoping]

I am simply amazed that there is so much acceptance of "she wants to come to this country"..."she wants a better life"

 

so the 90 day fiancee visa is simply a means to an end? I don't feel sorry for Nikki...I do think she might not have continued on except for the "exposure" and what it might lead to - nothing much IMHO as she is really not that attractive and not model material - then again she may find a better "sugar" that Mark

or maybe she plans to get back to the Jamie guy who is 32 and lives in California? 

Opportunities abound for Nikki - Baltimore has strip clubs I am sure and Massage Parlors

Hola

[GracieK]

Everyone wants a better or even just good life.  Don't most people get married because they want a better life with someone?  And I think many of us bring up that she wanted a better life because we are able to have empathy and understand that poverty there isn't what it is here.  Most of us have never been in desperate and extremely impoverished situations.  If you have a guy that shows up and makes all of these promises of caring for you, I'm sure it can very much feel like love to you.  She's too young to understand that people aren't always as they first appear.   It sounded like the extent of her experience is her ex made her feel as though she couldn't be herself, and Mark, at least at first, made her feel like she could be.  Until she got over here and he started demeaning and undermining everything she thinks and does.  

[Cherrio]

I am simply amazed that there is so much acceptance of "she wants to come to this country"..."she wants a better life"

 

so the 90 day fiancee visa is simply a means to an end? I don't feel sorry for Nikki...I do think she might not have continued on except for the "exposure" and what it might lead to - nothing much IMHO as she is really not that attractive and not model material - then again she may find a better "sugar" that Mark

or maybe she plans to get back to the Jamie guy who is 32 and lives in California? 

Opportunities abound for Nikki - Baltimore has strip clubs I am sure and Massage Parlors

Hola

Most of us here have said a lot of negative things about Mark.  They come from the personality he has shown on the show and the things that have come out of his mouth.

     Nikki is very young, I am assuming that she lacks a lot in education is not at all worldly.  She has not given anyone a reason to think she has been a stripper or worked in a massage parlor.    I think in all fairness one should have some proof to allege she would work at those jobs instead of choosing something else.

             Maybe that is what she did in her country, but from watching the show I did not get the impression she worked in the sex industry.

[GracieK]

Mark's daughter, Elise, has clarified the karaoke bar job on social media.  Her explanation is Nikki misspoke or that it was misinterpreted.  She has apparently never even been in one of those bars, and rather the job she was referring to was some sort of social media karaoke thing.  Take that for what it's worth, but if true, I feel bad because I jumped to the conclusion that she was doing sex work in one of those bars.  

[jujuebes]

Most of us here have said a lot of negative things about Mark.  They come from the personality he has shown on the show and the things that have come out of his mouth.

     Nikki is very young, I am assuming that she lacks a lot in education is not at all worldly.  She has not given anyone a reason to think she has been a stripper or worked in a massage parlor.    I think in all fairness one should have some proof to allege she would work at those jobs instead of choosing something else.

             Maybe that is what she did in her country, but from watching the show I did not get the impression she worked in the sex industry.

She definitely has an interesting choice in clothing...When she met Mark's daughter *Epi 3?* it barely went down far enough to cover the goods and when she sat down you could see her panties. Yes, I'm a perv and rewinded it to confirm it! Not stating that means anything about her previous jobs, it's just me being very judgemental.

 

That being said...Carolina's outfit after waking up was incredibly sexy, but that's something she put on after waking up and only wore inside of the house.

Edited December 8, 2015 by jujuebes

[Danag]

It was obvious that Mark, the PERV, was uncomfortable during the Tell All because he couldn't control all the situations....

 

Mark is definitely an emotional abuser. My guess is that ALL those 50 women that he dated, ran from him as soon as he opened his mouth. Unfortunately, Nikki doesn't have much choice now. She may as well take the FREE room and board until she gets her green card. Because that is all he's  providing for her. She's in jail with a repulsive, sicko.

 

After hearing that her father had legitimate concerns that Mark may not treat her right....He was right on the money. He had a gut feeling, so he wanted some reassurance from Mark. It sounds as though Mark promised to "take care" of her, but Nikki's father's definition was different than Marks. I don't think that Nikki's father would have approved the PRENUP. He probably thought that Mark would treat her like a trophy wife, with all the perks. 

 

Mark is an O-L-D goat, and knew how to manipulate a child, and a family in poverty....Nikki found herself in a tough spot and she couldn't go home at any cost, because her father would say "I told you so"....

 

BTW- I believe that he bought that sports car to show off his eye candy, because HE loved that car, and HE and Nikki would look good in it. It's ALL about HIS feelings. Nikki cannot drive for a long time. He's FOS, and was trying to make himself look good on TV, as though he did it for Nikki....Oh, it is HIS car. He's a manipulative, controlling , cheapskate. Nikki gets zero.

[GracieK]

He came right out and said he bought it for her because HE loves that car.  It obviously wasn't purchased because it was a car that Nikki had expressed interest in owning.

[lavenderpenguin]

Ha, NikSac, so true! He did do those things just for her! She should kiss the ground he walks on! What a specimen! 

 

Seriously, though, Mark seems like a pretty decent dad. I think his kids have a good relationship with him. His daughter seems maybe a little uncomfortable (how awkward was proposing to the near child bride in front of his daughter), but certainly not unhappy.

 

I'm not sure how much of a decent father Mark is. I can't remember if it was on Twitter or Instagram, but Elise actually wrote quite a lengthy post about the situation with her Dad, and the gist of it was that she felt forced to accept the Nikki-child-bride situation, because if she didn't, she believed she would be cut out of her father's life (she specifically stated that she knew he would choose Nikki over her). I don't want to judge, but any man who would choose a 19-year-old mail order bride (that he barely can tolerate, except when he's toting her around the beach and/or sleeping with her) over his daughter is not Dad of the Year by any standard.

Edited December 9, 2015 by lavenderpenguin

[WhoAmIReally]

But I think Nikki's lack of a drivers license will hinder her most. Mark's neighborhood looks nice, but doesn't seem very close to businesses or schools that Nikki can walk to and buses don't usually run that often in the burbs. It'd be great if Mark would call up EZ Method and get Nikki some driving lessons, but I doubt he would. Driving school costs money and Mark would probably say he can teach her better, but of course it would be on his schedule.

Marks lives right by an industrial park (the housing where he lives was built for employees) and an airport (like, miserably close to an airport), so there is a MARC

Train (commuter train) stop by them that could take her into the city to work or go to school.  Community college is super cheap for residents, and if Mark won't pay for it, she can get a loan.  Just saying she has options.

[lavenderpenguin]

She knowingly and willingly sold her future to Mark.  Even after it became painfully apparent that Mark is damaged goods, she signed that prenup, she happily accepted his ring, she reaffirmed her willingness to forgo children, and she showed up on that beach.   Her priorities are clear.

 

No tears for Nikki.   Sorry.

 

She's 19, likely uneducated, and desperate -- it is unlikely that she understood (or even understands now) what she signed herself up for.  It is painfully apparent to us that Mark is an abusive, controlling man (and that's likely why he went on "hundreds" of dates, all of which were a disaster -- women with options are going to see Mark's red flags after 5 minutes of being around him), it's not clear if Nikki is used to and/or has been through much worse.

 

If she's willing to grin and bear it, it's likely because she thinks she can tolerate for however long is necessary, but I honestly do not believe she understands the depth of how manipulative and emotionally abusive Mark comes across -- I think she just thinks he's a bit controlling and strange, but I get the feeling that she truly believes (or believed while on the show) that her youth/beauty would soften him up with time and affection. It won't and by the time she realizes it, she'll have wasted years of her youth with the douchebag.

Edited December 9, 2015 by lavenderpenguin

[seacliffsal]

I think that Mark totally has an image of himself that he thinks he is selling to everyone. He goes on about how "well" he treated his dates-the first thing he said was that he gave them good conversation then listed everything else that fit his image of romantic dating. I really noticed this when they were driving around Hawaii. It was like he looked at the camera in the car and then decided to show how fun loving he was and started "dancing" as he drove the car. He is acting out the image of what he imagines people think is romantic and fun. He's the one who chose to get married in Hawaii-because that is what he imagines would be cool (gotta say I love Hawaii)-but everything he has done has been for his image not for Nikki.

[millennium]

I get tired of the constant characterization of Nikki as a "child."    She's 20 years old.   My guess is, she's more mature than many of her American counterparts, simply because she hasn't been coddled and supported by her family for most of her life.

 

I got the impression her "naivete" is an act for the cameras.

 

And I'm not entirely convinced Mark is as horrible and "abusive" as he's judged to be here.   The strongest evidence against it is Mark's daughter, Elise, who appears to be a normal, well-adjusted, bright and happy young woman.   She knows who and what her father is.   Do you believe she would be a willing participant in this if she thought her father to be the Bluebeard of Baltimore?

 

We see what the producers want us to see.   It doesn't mean it's real.

Edited December 9, 2015 by millennium

[lavenderpenguin]

Mark said "I dated 100 IF NOT more women, I bought them a dozen IF NOT 2 dozen roses, and took them to 4 star IF NOT 5 star restaurants"

 

You are a creep IF NOT a pedophile and old IF NOT geriatric and a douchebag IF NOT a colossal douchbag

It was so bizarre how he described the flowers and the fancy restaurants as if that entitled him to those women -- did he ever pause to think that all the roses and all the most expensive dinners in world cannot make someone like you? If hundreds of women disliked you, despite all the gimmicks, then the problem is you, buddy. I wish someone had mentioned that hundreds of women can't be wrong.

Marks lives right by an industrial park (the housing where he lives was built for employees) and an airport (like, miserably close to an airport), so there is a MARC

Train (commuter train) stop by them that could take her into the city to work or go to school.  Community college is super cheap for residents, and if Mark won't pay for it, she can get a loan.  Just saying she has options.

 

She has options but the problem I foresee is that she might not know about these options. Someone who lives there and is fluent in English could find out the easiest commuting options, how to take out a student loan, etc., but for Nikki to navigate that independently, as a foreigner with limited English speaking skills and a questionable amount of education, would be incredibly difficult.

Edited December 9, 2015 by lavenderpenguin

[3girlsforus]

I don't disagree, but people who work for the government aren't all sitting in offices. Many are sweeping floors and scrubbing toilets. And even the competition for those jobs is stiff. It took my uncle several years to get in as a maintenance man and he's a U.S. Vet. It's a tough job market.

 

 

I guess I was just thinking there really isn't any reason for her to have to work at a government contractor. I live much closer to DC than she does and there are plenty of jobs around here that aren't military or related to the Fed Gov. I don't think she'll have an easy time finding a job but I don't think it will be because she needs to work at the Fed Gov. 

 

Of course finding any kind of work would be easier if Mark supported her becoming a real person. 

Edited December 9, 2015 by 3girlsforus

[Honley Lass]

Opportunities abound for Nikki - Baltimore has strip clubs I am sure and Massage Parlors

 

You cannot be serious.  Sorry, but I think that's pretty mean.

[DangerousMinds]

Mark did ask her several times, IIRC even before she got to the US, what she thought she might do with her free time. I don't recall her having any answers, no real interests to speak of. I believe Elise also asked her if she planned on going to school or working, and she shows no interest. So it seems like she just planned to hang out and let Mark pay for everything and "take car" of her. I don't have much respect for that plan.

[lavenderpenguin]

I get tired of the constant characterization of Nikki as a "child."    She's 20 years old.   My guess is, she's more mature than many of her American counterparts, simply because she hasn't been coddled and supported by her family for most of her life.

 

I got the impression her "naivete" is an act for the cameras.

 

And I'm not entirely convinced Mark is as horrible and "abusive" as he's judged to be here.   The strongest evidence against it is Mark's daughter, Elise, who appears to be a normal, well-adjusted, bright and happy young woman.   She knows who and what her father is.   Do you believe she would be a willing participant in this if she thought her father to be the Bluebeard of Baltimore?

 

We see what the producers want us to see.   It doesn't mean it's real.

 

While she might be more mature than the average American 20-year-old, I think her age relative to Mark's is what makes her a child. She is younger than his youngest child (Elise). In relation to him, she is absolutely a child. He even treats her like a child (e.g. don't touch the windows, I don't let my children touch the windows).

 

Also, please check out Elise's instagram -- she addressed the situation with her Dad and stated that she felt like she had no choice but to go along with this circus because otherwise, she believed her Dad would choose Nikki over her. She also said that she wanted to be on television because that was the only way she could make her thoughts heard by her father. For her, I think her relationship with her Dad is the most important, so she's keeping her mouth shut and going along with it, whether or not she thinks it's a good idea for Nikki. https://www.instagram.com/p/-mrgchtsR4/?taken-by=yeahhhboiieslice

 

The fact that his kid turned out alright isn't proof that he's not a wackadoodle and frankly, parent-child relationships are complicated (esp. when you have a sticky situation with a bad divorce), and just because your Dad or Mom isn't the best person (or even a good person), that doesn't mean you cut off contact and/or don't love them.

 

I would give Mark the benefit of doubt had it not been for that disastrous Tell-All segment. His behavior with Erica Hill, his "hundreds" of failed dates, his issues with "independent women," looking specifically for women young enough to be his children while not wanting more kids, how all the critical women were just old/ugly/fat/alone, and his nasty facial expressions, couldn't be edited in. The producers couldn't *make* him say those things or make those facial expressions -- that's on him. And it was repulsive and disturbing.

Edited December 9, 2015 by lavenderpenguin

[WhoAmIReally]

 

She has options but the problem I foresee is that she might not know about these options. Someone who lives there and is fluent in English could find out the easiest commuting options, how to take out a student loan, etc., but for Nikki to navigate that independently, as a foreigner with limited English speaking skills and a questionable amount of education, would be incredibly difficult.

 

She says she and Elise are pretty close now.  Elise can show her how to bike to the train station (and probably lend her a bike) and how to register for community college.  Around here probably over 50% (if not more) of community college students are non-Native speakers.  She's not a dummy.  She just needs to build up her confidence a little.  She at least has a high school degree.  If other kids with high school degrees can figure it out, she can, too. 

[GracieK]

I think Elise is very careful about what she says and how she says it.. because like everyone else close to Mark, she walks on eggshells around him and doesn't want to rock the boat.  Because he's an abusive and manipulative asshole.  

[charmed1]

I guess I was just thinking there really isn't any reason for her to have to work at a government contractor. I live much closer to DC than she does and there are plenty of jobs around here that aren't military or related to the Fed Gov. I don't think she'll have an easy time finding a job but I don't think it will be because she needs to work at the Fed Gov.

Of course finding any kind of work would be easier if Mark supported her becoming a real person.

It was really just an example of how getting a green card isn't an automatic pass straight to employment. Federal or not. I live in DC proper. Our unemployment rate is over 6%. It's not easy for all of us.

Marks lives right by an industrial park (the housing where he lives was built for employees) and an airport (like, miserably close to an airport), so there is a MARC

Train (commuter train) stop by them that could take her into the city to work or go to school. Community college is super cheap for residents, and if Mark won't pay for it, she can get a loan. Just saying she has options.

That she can walk to though? I just don't see Mark driving Nikki back and forth whenever she wants to go somewhere. He's got pancakes to microwave. I'm super familiar with the MARC train. I used to ride it when it didn't run on weekends. I think some of Mark's kids are in college. Maybe they can carpool to school with their stepmom.

[lavenderpenguin]

She says she and Elise are pretty close now.  Elise can show her how to bike to the train station (and probably lend her a bike) and how to register for community college.  Around here probably over 50% (if not more) of community college students are non-Native speakers.  She's not a dummy.  She just needs to build up her confidence a little.  She at least has a high school degree.  If other kids with high school degrees can figure it out, she can, too. 

 

I hope Elise can provide some guidance for her.

 

I don't think it's *one* factor that makes getting education more difficult for Nikki, but the combinaton of factors we have here. Fifty percent of community college kids might be non-Native speakers, but how many of them have some outside support (e.g. family, friends, etc.)? How long have they been in the country? How many of them are Spanish speakers (there are arguably more resources for Spanish speaking students, given how many Spanish speakers there are in the country now)?

 

It is also unclear whether Mark would be supportive of her spending so much time at school/doing homework/meeting with other young people (including men). Let's not forget his spiel on how he would be a "fool" to spend the rest of his years "living someone else's dream" -- this could encompass Nikki spending more time on school (and potentially, a social life involving much younger folks) than catering to him.

 

Also, a high school degree isn't exactly standard across the globe -- it could mean vastly different things, depending on the quality of education in a particular country and/or area of a country. Even across the United States, there is huge difference in the quality of education kids receive in high school, depending on the district they are in, private vs. public, etc.

Edited December 9, 2015 by lavenderpenguin

[lavenderpenguin]

I think Elise is very careful about what she says and how she says it.. because like everyone else close to Mark, she walks on eggshells around him and doesn't want to rock the boat.  Because he's an abusive and manipulative asshole.  

 

I am inclined to agree with this. Elise said as much on Instagram (that she would lose her father if she didn't get with the program and accept his relationship with Nikki). I don't think he's abusive towards his children, but I get the impression that he doesn't take to conflicting opinions very kindly (as we saw on the Tell-All). It's his way, or the highway. If you disagree, you might as well get lost because it's Mark world, and anyone who doesn't go with "the plan," is the bad guy.

[millennium]

While she might be more mature than the average American 20-year-old, I think her age relative to Mark's is what makes her a child. She is younger than his youngest child (Elise). In relation to him, she is absolutely a child. He even treats her like a child (e.g. don't touch the windows, I don't let my children touch the windows).

 

 

When did we start judging maturity based on the people in our lives?   So if Nikki weren't in a relationship with Mark, she wouldn't be a child.   But because she's in a relationship with Mark, she is a child? 

 

It doesn't work like that.

[GracieK]

Maturity is absolutely relative.  

[lavenderpenguin]

 

When did we start judging maturity based on the people in our lives?   So if Nikki weren't in a relationship with Mark, she wouldn't be a child.   But because she's in a relationship with Mark, she is a child? 

 

It doesn't work like that.

 

Everything in life IS relative. A 20-year-old dealing with the manipulations of a 58-year-old would have the dynamics of a child interacting with an adult. And it is so glaringly obvious in ALL of Mark's interactions with Nikki (talking about how his kids can't do this or that, even asking Erica Hill if she'd allow her kids to do something, waking her up with a whistle, telling her how to behave herself, telling her how she's feeling -- the list goes on and on) that he, too, believes he's dealing with a kid.

 

If Nikki were in a relationship with a fellow 20-something, the dynamic wouldn't be that of a child/adult, because they would be two young adults on similar footing and maturity. Mark has an entire life's worth of experience and emotional baggage to the point where Nikki does, for all intents and purposes, come across like a kid when dealing with him.

 

Also, it is important to note that when they were married, she was 19. A teenager. I'm only 23, but I can tell you right now that any age that ends in a "teen" is for sure a kid, at least mentally. She's right out of school and has barely experienced what life is like as an adult. At that age, you're still growing into yourself, figuring out what you want in life, and developing confidence in yourself and your potential. To say that at 19, she's on equal footing and can level with a 57-year-old with four adult children, who has been through a divorce and decades of failed dates, is plain delusional.

Edited December 9, 2015 by lavenderpenguin

[biakbiak]

Yeah Elise is only a year older but she comes off as much more savvy, worldly than Nikki.

[lavenderpenguin]

Yeah Elise is only a year older but she comes off as much more savvy, worldly than Nikki.

 

Let's not forget that she's had the privilege of growing up in a developed country, where she could focus on developing her hobbies and attending college. She is a woman with options (much like those "independent women" that Mark hates so much), and therefore, doesn't have the same vulnerabilities that someone in Nikki's position might have.

[WhoAmIReally]

That post by Elise was heartbreaking.  I really admire her.  If my Dad had done something like this to me when I was her age, I would be absolutely devastated.  At least it seems like he's keeping all the property/money in his name so he can pass it to his kids.  I know in most states, widows get 1/3, even if they are not mentioned in the will, but hopefully the kids will get the bulk of the estate.  And I doubt Nikki will be Mark's widow, unless she kills him. 

Edited December 9, 2015 by WhoAmIReally

[biakbiak]

Let's not forget that she's had the privilege of growing up in a developed country, where she could focus on developing her hobbies and attending college. She is a woman with options (much like those "independent women" that Mark hates so much), and therefore, doesn't have the same vulnerabilities that someone in Nikki's position might have.

I was responding to the posts that suggested Nikki was more mature than your average American her age.