Mark & Nikki: Touch That Window, Lose Your Hand

[CofCinci]

Maybe Mark actually bought her from her karaoke bar.

That actually happens. I was in the Navy and my division Chief paid the "bar tab" for his wife who he met at a bar in the Phillipines. He explained the process to me. Basically the women have to earn X amount of money for the bar, if you want to take her back to your room or marry her, you have to pay the bar back her missed earnings. It's human trafficking but many sailors don't realize that.

[Raja]

That actually happens. I was in the Navy and my division Chief paid the "bar tab" for his wife who he met at a bar in the Phillipines. He explained the process to me. Basically the women have to earn X amount of money for the bar, if you want to take her back to your room or marry her, you have to pay the bar back her missed earnings. It's human trafficking but many sailors don't realize that.

Well if he was still in the Philippines he would pay the bar fine to keep the pimp at bay but in Maryland he is out of reach. So while he might have bought her vacation time off to be with him there isn't a lifetime or long term marraige purchase as with a US serviceman stationed in the Philippines  living on the economy like Mayo, Richard Gere's  character's father was with two women in the movie An Officer and a Gentleman.

[Adeejay]

I'm sure they do, but after S2 Mohamed received his green card, I've lost faith.

 

Mohamed passed his INS interview with flying colors.  It really doesn't matter whether he is in love with Danielle or not, the fact is that he knows everything there is to know about her, and could actually prove that they were living together as "Man and Wife".  A couple like Mark and Nikki should set off all kinds of bells and alarms, but as long as they meet the criteria, there is nothing the INS can do.

[3girlsforus]

I think most pre-nups start out as one sided and it's the responsibility of the other party to negotiate what they want.  OBVIOUSLY the person wanting the pre-nup is going to include stuff for the other party as they want it as one sided as possible.

 

 

Maybe I'm naive but I always figured most prenups are one-sided but not punitive (barring a section in the case of adultery). There is a difference between an agreement that keeps pre-marital assets separate and settles on a small figure for support in case of divorce and one that says nothing ever belongs to you and I get everything. Mark's version of a pre-nup is about humiliation and control. He doesn't want to protect his current assets. He wants her to have nothing he doesn't dribble out to her. I actually suspect his end game is to do to her what he couldn't do to his ex - grind her into the ground and either leave her on the side of the road or begging him for scraps - whichever turns him on more at the time. 

[still hoping]

 I don't post speculation....if I did I could say what I think Nikki was "probably" up to at the "Karaoke Bar" in Cebu....google it LOL

 

She had modeling pics up thru a small local photog in Cebu (on facebook) and on the talent site

Check the other links I put on the social media.....she had another guy american ? maybe 40 years old as her Pinterest pic

she has no boards but she follows and has followers who are Filipina gals married to Americans

 

My personal opinion is - she should go back and Mark should get honest with himself and wish her well. I do think he has to pay her way back

No "probably" about it they are a disaster waiting to happen...but it takes 2 to tango - and these two are equally involved

IMHO Nikki was set on finding some older "rich" (or well off) American to marry...she has NO intention of working or doing anything

sure she would like a kid

She found a guy who seemed good on paper - own business, owns a home on the water etc...she got a rude awakening when she got "home" to

fussy odd old Mark, zebra sheets and all. Tough luck Nikki..get out while the gettin is still good JMO

[Cherrio]

Mark reminded Nikki that he brought up signing a prenup on their first date. Who talks about a prenup on their first date? Has Mr. Big Spender ("it's my house, my boats, my car, my retirement fund") even replaced that stupid zip-tie with a real ring?

Zip tie around his neck may be a great wedding gift.

[Cherrio]

Maybe I'm naive but I always figured most prenups are one-sided but not punitive (barring a section in the case of adultery). There is a difference between an agreement that keeps pre-marital assets separate and settles on a small figure for support in case of divorce and one that says nothing ever belongs to you and I get everything. Mark's version of a pre-nup is about humiliation and control. He doesn't want to protect his current assets. He wants her to have nothing he doesn't dribble out to her. I actually suspect his end game is to do to her what he couldn't do to his ex - grind her into the ground and either leave her on the side of the road or begging him for scraps - whichever turns him on more at the time. 

I think you are 100% right on Mark's intentions.   He is going to get pay back.   Someone is going to do it HIS WAY.    He hasn't changed his sheets or anything else since he was so tragically left with 4 kids in diapers.   Its pathological with him.   

Even if only 10% of what is shown is authentic, she is in danger.  

[still hoping]

Is someone holding sullen Nikki hostage? She can go back to the Karaoke bar anytime right?

 

She obviously has her own agenda here. I don't think Mark is "all there"...but surely she sees that and knows that and yet wants to stay.

 

The more I see of her the more repugnant she is. She wanted a meal ticket but found out this happy meal is short more than a few fries

but she is hangin in there - her choice.

 

While Mark may be futzy and weird  (I personally think he is a high functioning Aspie) there is no reason to think he is "dangerous".

 

IMHO reality tv has taken the idea of "victim" too far - these people are putting it out there on tv and want the attention. 

Just because she is young - 19 - does not mean she is innocent or a victim. While it is creepy - that I agree - their "union" is legal everywhere in this

country. Nothing says she is in danger. One could just as easily say this foreign bar worker is putting a mentally disabled/disturbed man in "danger" right?

No proof either way.

He sure is not making he work hard - see seems to lay around. She doesn't even cook the frozen pancakes LOL

[RCharter]

Is someone holding sullen Nikki hostage? She can go back to the Karaoke bar anytime right?

 

She obviously has her own agenda here. I don't think Mark is "all there"...but surely she sees that and knows that and yet wants to stay.

 

The more I see of her the more repugnant she is. She wanted a meal ticket but found out this happy meal is short more than a few fries

but she is hangin in there - her choice.

 

While Mark may be futzy and weird  (I personally think he is a high functioning Aspie) there is no reason to think he is "dangerous".

 

IMHO reality tv has taken the idea of "victim" too far - these people are putting it out there on tv and want the attention. 

Just because she is young - 19 - does not mean she is innocent or a victim. While it is creepy - that I agree - their "union" is legal everywhere in this

country. Nothing says she is in danger. One could just as easily say this foreign bar worker is putting a mentally disabled/disturbed man in "danger" right?

No proof either way.

He sure is not making he work hard - see seems to lay around. She doesn't even cook the frozen pancakes LOL

I think her being young does support the idea that she is a victim.  With time and experience people mature.  Its why we don't expect the same thing from a 15 year old that we expect from a 35 year old.

[3girlsforus]

Is someone holding sullen Nikki hostage? She can go back to the Karaoke bar anytime right?

 

 

Can she??? Who has the money? Does she have the means for a plane ticket? I think she needs to go home but I'm not sure if she actually can. 

[cooksdelight]

She has no money that we've seen. She can't work, can't drive. She's trapped.

[still hoping]

Why can't she drive? He bought her a car why doesn't she practice driving?

 

He had to prove he could support her....she should be able to get plane fare back home

 

Just being "young" (19) means zip - 19 year olds work, go to war, raise kids..some break the law

being 19 just means she can't drink alcohol in the usa

[cooksdelight]

She needs a valid ID to get a drivers license. Can't do that until she gets her green card.

[3girlsforus]

and it's still illegal for her to get a job right now. 

[RCharter]

Why can't she drive? He bought her a car why doesn't she practice driving?

 

He had to prove he could support her....she should be able to get plane fare back home

 

Just being "young" (19) means zip - 19 year olds work, go to war, raise kids..some break the law

being 19 just means she can't drink alcohol in the usa

Just because a child can die in a war doesn't make them any less a child.  There are child soliders in the Sudan, I don't stop calling them children because someone put a gun in their hand.  Being 19 means she is a child, and its why, again, we realistically don't expect the same things from a 19 year old that we expect from a 40 year old.  Time and experience in the world give a person maturity.  This is why I wasn't the same person at 19 that I was at 12, and why I'm not the same person in my 30's that I was at 19.

 

No shade, but do you really think you're the same person you were 30+ years ago? 

[still hoping]

In 3 seasons I think Nikki and Mo are the most fake golddiggers

 

Mo and Danielle....Nikki and Mark...a lot alike

I feel more sorry for Danielle's teen daughters than for Nikki

 

[girlinMN]

Does he just have one of those faces? Because I think I know him, too.

Mark looks like HENRY WINKLER!!!

[Honley Lass]

Mark looks like HENRY WINKLER!!!

Heeeeyyyyyyy....don't disrespect The Fonz!!

 

(boy am I showing my age!)

[Hero]

Henry Winkler's way better looking...lol! And he produced one of my favorite shows, So Weird.

[magemaud]

Anyone want to play a game where you have to take a drink every time Mark says "(she left me with) FOUR KIDS IN DIAPERS"?

[3girlsforus]

Anyone want to play a game where you have to take a drink every time Mark says "(she left me with) FOUR KIDS IN DIAPERS"?

not unless I line up a liver transplant first :-)

[Chickabiddy]

I wonder if the reason Mark's kids aren't around for filming is that they are sick and tired of hearing about how he was abandoned with the four of them in diapers. It must be exhausting to live with that kind martyrdom.

[RCharter]

I wonder if the reason Mark's kids aren't around for filming is that they are sick and tired of hearing about how he was abandoned with the four of them in diapers. It must be exhausting to live with that kind martyrdom.

How could a person get tired of living with a bonafide saint?  Thats just crazy talk!!!  ;)

[deltaburkefan]

Not just a saint--a SPECIMEN of a saint!

[Chickabiddy]

The stuff about the court case was all really interesting. I wonder if he demanded a monetary award to offset his costs for the K-1 visa and supporting her until she was able to work ,etc.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Chickabiddy

[RCharter]

Not just a saint--a SPECIMEN of a saint!

Saint Specimen!  Patron saint of old, lecherous, skeevy men everywhere.

[Chickabiddy]

RCharter and Deltaburkkefan: You two crack me up!

[merylinkid]

 

if he demanded a monetary award to offset his costs for the K-1 visa and supporting her until she was able to work ,etc.

 

Considering they were married for many years and had 4 kids by the time of the divorce, I would say she had worked that debt off.   But I can see him trying it anyway and his attorney just going along wiht it to see what would happen.   I can also see a judge going "Look, you are a specimen, but of what, I won't say, DENIED."

[AussieBabe]

Anyone want to play a game where you have to take a drink every time Mark says "(she left me with) FOUR KIDS IN DIAPERS"?

I'm already there. We started from the first episode and took shots everytime he said ex-wife, four kids in diapers, or anything in reference to the ex-wife. We were properly worse for wear on Thanksgiving night. I wouldn't advise doing this, but my cousins encouraged it.

[still hoping]

So much sympathy for Nikki...she can leave....he has told her that

 

No kids - no alimony in many states

 

short marriage - get plane ticket home, let him pay for divorce

 

Want to hep Nikki? why not go to the Backpages in your area and help a an American ?? LOL

 

Seriously some of the excuses made for her are tiresome - like "he got her through an agency"

 

No..both said online date site (ok cupid it has been sleuthed)

 

Maybe Nikki should be taken to task for trying to exploit a mentally disturbed man who IMHO has a disability -

ie, on the "spectrum"

 

[RCharter]

So much sympathy for Nikki...she can leave....he has told her that

 

No kids - no alimony in many states

 

short marriage - get plane ticket home, let him pay for divorce

 

Want to hep Nikki? why not go to the Backpages in your area and help a an American ?? LOL

 

Seriously some of the excuses made for her are tiresome - like "he got her through an agency"

 

No..both said online date site (ok cupid it has been sleuthed)

 

Maybe Nikki should be taken to task for trying to exploit a mentally disturbed man who IMHO has a disability -

ie, on the "spectrum"

I don't think that being on the "spectrum" counts as being "mentally disturbed" and I think a lot of people on the spectrum would find that somewhat insulting.

 

I also think that expecting a 19 year old child to make such a large decision for the rest of her life is a little silly, at best.  Many older people change their mind about children, why wouldn't you expect that from a 19 year old who is just starting out her life to change her mind, or decide that it might someday be important to her.  If Mark wanted someone that could make these huge life decisions, he shouldn't have picked someone who is so young.

 

I find it sad that we would make fun of a young girl for being in such a sad situation that she would need to be in the Backpages, but yet we would completely forgive a lecherous old man taking advantage of a girl in such a sorry situation.

[still hoping]

Reading comprehension - I did not equate spectrum with mentally disabled....

 

he can - and very well may - have dual conditions. I think we all know he has severe problems

 

she met him in person and continued this farce

 

she put herself in this situation...I think his kids should do an intervention and get her plane ticket home

[Honley Lass]

Maybe Nikki should be taken to task for trying to exploit a mentally disturbed man who IMHO has a disability -

ie, on the "spectrum"

You were saying?

[RCharter]

Reading comprehension - I did not equate spectrum with mentally disabled....

 

he can - and very well may - have dual conditions. I think we all know he has severe problems

 

she met him in person and continued this farce

 

she put herself in this situation...I think his kids should do an intervention and get her plane ticket home

how do we all know he has severe mental problems?  

 

I consider old, skeevy, controlling perv a personality problem, not a mental problem.

 

I'm not sure what farce you're referring to, but whatever it is, they both have kept it up.  However, one is doing it to escape poverty.  The other because he is taking advantage of a severe power imbalance so he can get a child bride he can control with money and by threatening to send her back home every 10 minutes.

 

She is a 19 year old girl trying to get out of a poor country.  He is a man of nearly 60 trying to get a breathing doll who can't do anything he doesn't like or else he will "send her home".  I don't think he is the one who needs the intervention.

[cooksdelight]

it's been addressed before, and I don't want to have to beat the dead horse.... please do NOT try to diagnose someone with a disability unless you are their personal physician.

[Danag]

1. Nikki is a child. She made a bad choice, and now she has to "finish the job". I'm guessing that she will be with Mark until the necessary time will be up. I believe they have to be married for 2 years before she will earn the right to stay in the US. She can get divorced then, and in the meantime she can be doing her homework on how to get away from a PIG and how to make it on her own.....so she's ready when the time comes.

The way Mark treats her is despicable. He's controlling, cheap, narcissistic.... Women should take notice, because he will be single real soon. Mark is delusional thinking that Nikki wants him. His stiff o-l-d bones, and low hanging testicles make me want to puke.

 

2. As nice as Josh is, I think Aleksandra will get tired of Rexburg married life. She feels old already. Yep, that type of lifestyle can do that to you. It can get boring and depressing. I hope she doesn't think that "Rexburg" represents  USA.

 

She needs to go to NYC, or some larger city and DANCE. She needs to leave live a little before she gets preggers. I think she likes Josh, but she's way too young to be playing house. I don't see them together in the long run, UNLESS Josh moves Aleksandra to a better place, closer resembling a larger European city, so she can live and not wither away in some God forsaken hole.

 

3. Maybe Kyle and Noon will make it. The other couples will NOT.

[still hoping]

"she is a 19 year old girl  trying to get out of a poor country"

 

ugh...is that what K-1 visa is for? NO..I would love to see her deported

[RCharter]

"she is a 19 year old girl  trying to get out of a poor country"

 

ugh...is that what K-1 visa is for? NO..I would love to see her deported

as far as I know, the K1 visa is simply for people who want to bring over someone from another country to marry.  I don't believe they ask your internal motivations on the form, or prohibit you from using agreeing to marry some old pervert because you want to escape poverty.  I can't imagine the K1 process was developed to help old perverts take advantage of barely legal teens from impoverished countries so they could hold the threat of sending them back to poverty over their head.  I would love to see her wait out her two years and leave Mark high and dry for a better man.  Or just leave Mark high and dry, period.  

Edited December 2, 2015 by RCharter

[GracieK]

"she is a 19 year old girl  trying to get out of a poor country"

 

ugh...is that what K-1 visa is for? NO..I would love to see her deported

 

The K-1 shouldn't be for bringing teenagers over here in some form of legal sex trade either.. but I don't see you directing your ire towards Mark over that.  The US spouse is responsible for filing the K-1 and for bringing the foreigner into this country.  If you have a beef with this particular situation, it's my opinion that you should be placing at least half the blame on Mark.. you know the educated, 60 yr old, US citizen man who already has experience doing this and FAILING at it before.    Definition of insanity...

Edited December 2, 2015 by GracieK

[cereality]

Mark has an anger issue which has definitely come out in his interviews and with her when he doesn't get his way. There was an interview in which they were talking about kids and he angrily goes -- I'm not here to fulfill someone else's dream, that would make me a chump!!

 

And same thing with the prenup when he was going MY house, MY boat, MY retirement.

 

I'm sure she or her family realized at some level that being with a 55 yr old isn't a good thing and can set her up to be taken advantage of given that she's 19, but she/they took the risk that he'd be fine and she'd deal for 2 yrs until she could stay in the U.S. legally. He was on vacation when he was over there, and he wanted her to come to the U.S. -- so I'm sure he was super sweet and this anger did not come thru. Now though it's a bit scary -- she's all alone in the U.S. in his house.

[Kiss my mutt]

Did Mark ever mention getting Nikki a real ring at some point? If she's a gold digger, she's doing it wrong.

[cereality]

Unless I'm missing something -- a 55 yr old with a temper/anger problem who is with a 19 yr old from another country -- it's just about sex, right? I assume he can't find a woman in his neck of the woods who will put up with his BS, yet with a much younger foreign woman, he "offers" something -- a visa and his way of life (if they stay together). Honestly Nikki had to know the bargain was about sex in order to get to the U.S. If she marries him, I think she should take him up on the separate bedrooms, while sleeping with him enough to keep him happy, and otherwise staying out of his way. She had said that he works all the time; she can set it up so he is really out of the house 90%+ of the time at work. If he thinks she's happy, he'll continue to buy her things to keep her happy -- like the car. And 2 yrs will be over soon and she can move on. Though with this prenup and her lack of a job, she has to find some way to earn some money so that when it's time to leave, she has enough money to get an apartment. I imagine she can make some money though -- like that creepy guy in FL who was on last season's show -- he lived off of buying and selling stuff online. Not that it's a great living, but it'll give her the seed money to get out and get started in the U.S.

[ShowsILoveToHate]

I really need to tell someone (all of you) who will understand....

 

A week ago I had surgery.  It was out-patient and I feel mostly recovered by now. 

 

So... Mr. ShowILove drove me to the hospital and he had to wait in the pre-op waiting area while I got changed into a surgical gown, put on my fuzzy slippers, put a hairnet on, and had my IV started.

 

I'm all set and this guy who was the spitting image of Mark (except maybe 10 years younger) walks over to me and starts to prep my arm for the IV to be inserted.  I asked him if he was my anesthesiologist and he said "yes" but the entire time, he was SO distracted; got a call on a very old cell phone (I had the exact pale blue flip phone about 7 years ago) and then just walked away looking all distracted and started to say to the other people (nurses, etc) "someone, start her IV, I have to go to another room......".  In those couple of minutes, all I could think of was "Out of all the anesthesiologists in all the hospitals in all the world, 'MARK' had to walk into my room!!!"   I seriously felt a bit of concern at that point.  I asked the next person who walked over to me "Are you short-staffed today?  Not enough anesthesiologists??"  apparently they took my concern seriously..... *whew*

 

Ok so I'm making this story too long...so....yada yada yada....  eventually a very lovely Indian woman came over to me, introduced herself, and said she was my anesthesiologist.  Everyone else that I encountered at this hospital were great as well.

 

The thing is, I cannot get the image of this skeevy, Mark-ish anesthesiologist out of my mind! It's scary to think about him actually not getting that phone call that made him leave.  When you're about to be operated on, you really need to have a sense of trust in everyone involved. 

 

I wish my husband had been there when "Mark" was there, because he watches this show too, and he could confirm that this dude was indeed the doppelganger of freaking skeevy Mark!  They didn't let him come back to be with me until after the IV was actually started, and then he was able to stay until they were taking me to the operating room.  But by that point I was feeling pretty good from the medication in my IV for anxiety. :D

 

Ok I feel much better now!   Thanks for letting me get that out.  LOL

 

P.S. I wonder if Mark has a younger brother who works at a hospital in Boston...??   rofl

Edited December 2, 2015 by ShowsILoveToHate

[still hoping]

 Actually I dislike both of them....the strange sympathy for Nikki may make it seem as if I "defend" Mark...but not really

 

I am sickened by the idea many are OK with a "poor" girl selling her soul to a sugar daddy...as for her finding someone better>

Moody, lay around, no personality, needs to wash her hair..??. Maybe she can get a bar job

 

She and last year's Mo are equally disgusting IMHO...I watch the show to see relationships...funny,maybe odd, developing, and hopefully romantic

I don't enjoy watching these 2....she should have tried "sugar babies" date site but she is not near pretty enough

Mark does not have near enough money for that site LOL

 

I think Mark and Nikki deserve each other - 2 users

[Danag]

Why is Mark not interested in American women? Is it perhaps because typically Filipino women are known for being submissive, caretakers, and housekeepers? I have known a couple of women like that, and men loved that about them. American women were too outspoken, and independent for them.

I cannot believe that in the entire US , a 58 yo man could not find a woman good enough, but had to steal  a "child" from Philippines . He wants to mold her to be his slave? Me thinks the Ex had to leave "his" house, and not that she left him with children. She probably had no choice. I'd like to hear her story. The other thing is that WHY does he think that it wasn't his job to raise the children? Was it only hers? You can read between the lines what type of creep he really is.

 

I'm sure that Nikki has her agenda, but I don't find her particularly materialistic. She should be demanding a huge diamond by now. He probably charmed her at first just to get her interested , and once she took the bait, he switched.

The sports car was probably just for TV. She doesn't have a license. As for her dirty hair....when I was 19, my hair would get greasy 8 hours after I washed it. Besides, the camera is rolling 24 hours a day, so TLC is trying to show us the juicy moments, and if they happen before she showers, she may have greasy hair. Just sayin.

[RCharter]

Why is Mark not interested in American women? Is it perhaps because typically Filipino women are known for being submissive, caretakers, and housekeepers? I have known a couple of women like that, and men loved that about them. American women were too outspoken, and independent for them.

I cannot believe that in the entire US , a 58 yo man could not find a woman good enough, but had to steal  a "child" from Philippines . He wants to mold her to be his slave? Me thinks the Ex had to leave "his" house, and not that she left him with children. She probably had no choice. I'd like to hear her story. The other thing is that WHY does he think that it wasn't his job to raise the children? Was it only hers? You can read between the lines what type of creep he really is.

 

I'm sure that Nikki has her agenda, but I don't find her particularly materialistic. She should be demanding a huge diamond by now. He probably charmed her at first just to get her interested , and once she took the bait, he switched.

The sports car was probably just for TV. She doesn't have a license. As for her dirty hair....when I was 19, my hair would get greasy 8 hours after I washed it. Besides, the camera is rolling 24 hours a day, so TLC is trying to show us the juicy moments, and if they happen before she showers, she may have greasy hair. Just sayin.

She will be grateful, my hair is as dry as the Sahara and there is no shampoo, no treatment, not a thing that will change it.  Its easier to take the grease out of hair than it is to put it in.

 

And you're right, if she was materialistic, she would be like Daya, demanding a  big, flawless diamond ring.  I can't remember if Daya was from Thailand or the Phillipines, but I do remember that she seemed to think the flaws in the ring meant that Brett somehow valued her less.  Perhaps these are just different cultures than the one I have grown up in.  I don't think Daya was a golddigger, because I don't think Brett had much gold, but she made much ado about that ring.  Nikki doesn't even say anything about that.

[Raja]

.

 

And you're right, if she was materialistic, she would be like Daya, demanding a  big, flawless diamond ring.  I can't remember if Daya was from Thailand or the Phillipines, but I do remember that she seemed to think the flaws in the ring meant that Brett somehow valued her less.  Perhaps these are just different cultures than the one I have grown up in.  I don't think Daya was a golddigger, because I don't think Brett had much gold, but she made much ado about that ring.  Nikki doesn't even say anything about that.

Daya is a Filipina. I, think she was an overseas worker before Brett found her on a dating site. I forgot  which province she is from as we picked up her story at the airport with the wrong flowers as Brett didn't go back to the Philippines to pick her up as Louis did with Aya in season one. Did the show always put up the hometown or just the country of origin back then?

Edited December 2, 2015 by Raja

[cooksdelight]

You can find information on Daya and Brett in the Season 2 threads.

[still hoping]

There are poor young women in the us too..probably lots working at Walmart or Micky D

 

check her on social media thread - and google karaoke bar girls

 

I don't think anyone thought she was in love...he turned out worse but she is sullen and doesn't seem 

to do anything - he does the little cooking we see. 

 

I feel sorry for his kids

[Toaster Strudel]

At the beginning, Nikki looked happy, and even though she is clearly an opportunist, I do believe that she was willing to open herself up to feel some love for Mark, and try her best.  She was beaming when returning from the airport.  She gushed about his lovemaking (urgh) and called it "perfect." 

 

He vigorously beat all of it down until his songbird went sullen and quiet.