NFL Thread

[nowandlater]

I bet CBS is really, really happy they got to air this one.

 

[Fukui San]

Weird factoid: every point in the Patriots 16-9 victory was scored by someone whose name ended in "-kowski". Gronkowski, Gostkowski, and Janiskowski.

 

Edit: The other weird factoid from today is the fact that the Broncos are now 0-3 in OT under Manning, and 4-0 in OT under Tebow. That has as little bearing on anything as the "kowski" factoid.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Fukui San

[DrSpaceman]

Shocked that Manning was able to drive down the field in less than a minute to tie the game

Denver D was better but still not one 3rd down stop when it mattered most. Let Wilson run too much outside the pocket in OT

[GuiltyPleasures]

80 yards, 59 seconds, no timeouts, 2-pt conversion.

 

Denver's D much improved over last year.  They need to do better, no argument there, but it's something.  They were trying for the "bend don't break" approach in OT and yep it was hard to watch Wilson march them right down the field.  (Broncos fan here, in case you can't tell, lol.)

[twoods]

Got to give it to Wilson- he came through with clutch running plays when the Seahawks needed them. So brutal to watch- it would have been nice to see the Broncos win one from behind in front of the Seahawks fans.

I guess the 2-0 start by my Bills was a fluke. EJ looks horrible, which is too bad because he has some talented WR's to work with. Waiting for Orton to get the green light.

[xaxat]

Soooo, I guess this weekend won't put an end to those Harbaugh to Michigan rumors.

[Snowprince]

There might be something to those "he's lost the locker room" rumors about Harbaugh. And Kap seems to be regressing like RG III has. It's only week 3, not time to panic, but I am starting to get a bit concerned about My Niners.

[nowandlater]

I guess the 2-0 start by my Bills was a fluke. EJ looks horrible, which is too bad because he has some talented WR's to work with. Waiting for Orton to get the green light.

 

I followed the Bills when Marshawn played there. I remember them going 5-0 (2008?) and finishing with a losing record. Yeah, the Bills are always gonna be the Bills.

[Jediknight]

Shocked that Manning was able to drive down the field in less than a minute to tie the game

Denver D was better but still not one 3rd down stop when it mattered most. Let Wilson run too much outside the pocket in OT

That's what happens when you go to a prevent defense.  Allow a QB like Manning to complete short passes, and decide not to be aggressive, and Manning will come through.  Of course Denver saw what happens when you don't put someone as a spy on a QB like Russell Wilson.  You don't have anyone watching him, and he's going to tear you up with his legs.

 

There's no need to worry about the Niners guys.  They were 1-2 last year, so it's nothing to worry about.

[topanga]

 

I bet CBS is really, really happy they got to air this one.

During the first half of the game, I thought I was watching a local Denver broadcast. It was pretty funny. Things were more balanced In the 2nd half, but in the first two quarters, this is what I was hearing:

 

"Even though Peyton's pass was incomplete, at least he threw on the right side of the field."

"No, the Broncos aren't going to get a first down by running on 3rd and 10, but I like their strategy. They're taking their time."

"Even though the [broncos'] secondary has given up some big plays, I like their effort."

 

[Danny Franks]

As promised, the Ravens have released their response to the ESPN article, and while I'm sure some people will try to dismiss all the points out of hand, they seem convincing to me. Especially when Steve Bisciotti released full details of the supposed "bribe" offer to Ray Rice:

 

Steve Bisciotti:  “I did have an exchange of text messages with Ray, which he initiated.  I felt awful about what had happened.  I believed he was, at heart, a good person, that he was capable of redemption, and I wanted to tell him I would be supportive of him.  Here are the texts, not as told to someone and then misquoted in the article, but verbatim”:

 

Monday September 8, 7:44 pm

 

Ray: I understand the decision but I am thankful for what you have done for me and my family. Me and my wife will continue to work on us and being better but I just wanted to say thank you for giving me a chance

 

Steve: I'm sorry we had to do this. I still love you and believe that you will be a great husband and father If you ever need to talk just call

 

Tuesday September 9, 10:27 pm

 

Steve: I just spent two hours talking to Ozzie. It was all about you. We love you and we will always figure out a way to keep you in our lives. When you are done with football I will hire you to help me raise Great young men. I still love you!!!

 

Ray: I know it's a rough time for all of us I love all of you and that will never change for life!

 

Steve: I will help you make it a great life indeed. I give you my WORD

 

Ray: That means the world to me and my family we greatly appreciate you and thank you.

 

 

 

Yeah, what a scumbag Steve Bisciotti is. Or rather, ESPN's staff and their selective reporting, along with their desire to be the next Woodward and Bernstein, appear to be the scumbags here. I already took issue with the amount of hearsay and speculation in their supposedly top-notch reporting, and the fact that they flat out BS'ed about 'sources' telling them things that could not be offered as direct quotes.

 

I particularly like this bit, which shows what a load of nonsense that article is:

 

"If I cut a guy making six million dollars a year, if I'm promising him to be by his side and hire him for a hundred thousand dollars a year, five years from now... if that is considered worthy of him going along, I find that rather absurd, because it would take him two hundred and fifty years to make back the twenty five million that I took from him."

 

 

 

Wonder if any of this will get any play in the press, or whether it will be conveniently ignored so that people can keep bashing easy targets. Wait, no... on Deadspin at least they're reporting it, and the wits on that site are doing little more than pointing out that Steve Bisciotti is obviously of Italian descent, and so is probably a mobster. Honestly, explanations are more than some people deserve.

 

Does this put the Ravens in the right? No. And no one at the Ravens is claiming it does. They've admitted to their mistake in accepting Ray Rice's version of events, and explained why they made the mistake.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Danny Franks

[merylinkid]

The problem is -- Bisciotti promised him a job right after cutting him for hitting his wife.   Not after Rice had shown he learned from the incident.   Not after Rice successfully completed his probation.   Immediately after deciding the guy could no longer play for the team because they finally saw the tape and said it was horrific, they offered him a job mentoring future players.  Think about that for a minute.   Maybe it wasn't a bribe to shut up.   But it sure as hell was a "don't worry, we have to do this for PR and when all the fuss dies down, we got your back" text.   It was incredibly tone deaf to offer a mentoring job to someone who had done what Rice had done and had not yet earned redemption while proclaiming they take domestic violence seriously.

[Danny Franks]

I'm pretty sure that even the worst criminals are entitled to have a job once they have received whatever punishment was deemed appropriate. The Ravens firing Ray Rice was a decision they stand by. He won't play football for them again. He won't be paid millions of dollars to play for them again. Why can't they offer him a job in the future that they think he'd be good at?

Ray Rice has expressed regret and claimed to have learned his lesson, frequently. Whether you believe him is up to you. Steve Bisciotti obviously does believe him, and he knows Ray Rice far better than anyone here does.

And the point Steve Bisciotti made was that a man who has made mistakes is best placed to advise others not to do the same. The NFL has long believed in this concept and used it at their annual Rookie Symposium, where guys like Chris Herren and Warren Sapp talk to the newly drafted rookies about the problems they had.

Seems like the goalposts are being moved again. First they were wrong to stand by him, then they were wrong to not fire him sooner, then they were supposedly covering up and bribing him with a job. Now they're just being insensitive by offering him a job. What next?

Edited September 22, 2014 by Danny Franks

[mojoween]

TV Ratings

I'm only posting this because the ratings for the football overrun (7-8:04, which should really be 7:30-8:04 because that is what was over the scheduled time) to me, are insane. I mean, an 8.3? That wins the night.

And that garbage they threw on NBC got a 7.2. This is why football isn't going anywhere.

[Irlandesa]

 Why can't they offer him a job in the future that they think he'd be good at?

The NFL has long believed in this concept and used it at their annual Rookie Symposium, where guys like Chris Herren and Warren Sapp talk to the newly drafted rookies about the problems they had.

 

I think offering him a job to mentor young men...specifically to mentor young men, less than a year after punching his fiancee is pretty much everything that is wrong with the NFL.  So now you need  less integrity to mentor young men than to play football?  Chris Harren speaks about his drug addiction which he saved himself from and then hit the circuit. He wasn't promised inspirational speaking gigs about overcoming substance abuse while he was in rehab.  Warren Sapp isn't exactly a convincing argument that the NFL knows what its doing with the Rookie Symposium. 

 

And those text messages don't dispute the Outside The Lines report.  In fact, they're very similar to what was posted in OTL.  What's different is the point of view.  OTL's sources seem to be close to Rice and perception that it was an offering to mollify him was the Rice camp's perception. 

[Danny Franks]

I think offering him a job to mentor young men...specifically to mentor young men, less than a year after punching his fiancee is pretty much everything that is wrong with the NFL.  So now you need  less integrity to mentor young men than to play football?  Chris Harren speaks about his drug addiction which he saved himself from and then hit the circuit. He wasn't promised inspirational speaking gigs about overcoming substance abuse while he was in rehab.  Warren Sapp isn't exactly a convincing argument that the NFL knows what its doing with the Rookie Symposium. 

 

And those text messages don't dispute the Outside The Lines report.  In fact, they're very similar to what was posted in OTL.  What's different is the point of view.  OTL's sources seem to be close to Rice and perception that it was an offering to mollify him was the Rice camp's perception. 

 

And I think that deciding a person is unworthy of a certain kind of employment because they did something wrong, even though you don't know all the details, motivations, circumstances and history, let alone the character of the person, is a large part of what is wrong with this new, online culture of '140 character of moral outrage'.

 

No one has to atone for their mistakes to such a degree that they become a saint, if you ask me. They just have to acknowledge them and understand why they made them, to be able to help other people avoid them. You don't think Ray Rice can tell young men, 'don't hit your girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/whatever' and mean it? Why not? By all accounts, other than this incident, Ray Rice has been a model player, and decent man. Never been in any trouble before, so he's a perfect example of how important it is to be at your best all the time. One stupid decision can put an end to your career and ruin your reputation.

 

As for the texts, the main differences are that ESPN neglected to give a clear picture of the conversation and the motivation behind it, and they neglected to offer any of Ray Rice's responses to Steve Bisciotti. Did Ray Rice consider the offer a bribe? Not according to his replies. Did he later consider them a bribe? Possibly, though Steve Bisciotti says he doubts it, and he knows Ray Rice better than I do. But again, it would not be a very good bribe if the offer is that he would be paid one sixtieth of his annual player's salary.

[mojoween]

This Friday at 9 p.m. The NFL Network is premiering "A Football Life" of Sean Taylor. My DVR is set.

[DrSpaceman]

Doesn't matter how much money was being offered to Ray Rice, thats not really the point. Bisciotti was trying to play the game of cutting Rice for what he did but still telling him its not THAT bad because he is not completely out of the organization, he will still have a job. It makes it seem the being "cut" would all be for show. ANd it would still likely be a lucrative salary in comparison to what 99% of americans make even if it would be a huge pay cut compared to Ray Rice's current salary.

He was not cutting ties with Ray Rice to the Baltimore organization despite video of him knocking out his wife on video and reacting to that situation as if it was not all that out of place or odd. And yes maybe one day Ray Rice can use this as a lesson to teach others how NOT to act. However when there is seemingly a cover up, white washing of the situation and every attempt by him, the team and the league to downplay the entire fiasco, prior to the video being released, it doesn't really seem he learned much from this yet other than if this happens, try and not let there be any video of it made public so you are more likely to get away with it with as limited a suspension as possible.

His then fiance still married him a few months later, no mention of any personal counseling or changes prior to that wedding between them. Seems as if it likely didn't change much between them. And yes I know about how leaving him may not be wise because abused women often get hurt more when they leave, but not leaving him is much different from still agreeing to marry him a short time later. His wife came out and blamed the media for him losing his job. His owner is being accused of a huge cover up and now is saying Ray Rice's people are lying about the story. The NFLPA is still likely protesting his suspension. Does this really seem like the right person to talk to younger players about how to handle this type of situation? Its been one nightmare and mistep after another by everyone involved since this happened and it keeps getting worse with each new piece of information.

[Irlandesa]

And I think that deciding a person is unworthy of a certain kind of employment because they did something wrong, even though you don't know all the details, motivations, circumstances and history, let alone the character of the person, is a large part of what is wrong with this new, online culture of '140 character of moral outrage'.

 

No one has to atone for their mistakes to such a degree that they become a saint, if you ask me. They just have to acknowledge them and understand why they made them, to be able to help other people avoid them. You don't think Ray Rice can tell young men, 'don't hit your girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/whatever' and mean it? Why not? By all accounts, other than this incident, Ray Rice has been a model player, and decent man. Never been in any trouble before, so he's a perfect example of how important it is to be at your best all the time. One stupid decision can put an end to your career and ruin your reputation.

I just wanted to be clear that I don't need the "internets" to be outraged by a man hitting his wife and thinking he's not the best role model for other men. I also don't need the internet to think that it'd a bone headed PR move by the Ravens who are under fire. 

 

Nor do I need the internet to know that there are hundreds of other non-wife beating, non-super millionaire NFL players who will be lost after their playing days are over and would be wonderful in a job.  This isn't a one-off speaking engagement he's being offered but a job which would be considered a dream job to many of those players who managed not to hit their children or wives. 

[HalcyonDays]

Hey Everyone. Just a reminder - I know these topics are very contentious and spark serious emotion, but please try to respect everyone's opinion and point of view on the matter. There is also a handy feature called Ignore to help you out otherwise. Thank you.

[HalcyonDays]

Well, c'mon guys - you are allowed to discuss how badly the Washington Redskins are doing against the New York Giants and what is this? Attempting to break the record for interceptions, Washington? Sheesh.

[DrSpaceman]

Once again a truly awful Thursday night blowout

Though I didn't see this one coming, if anything I thought it would be NY on the losing end of this one.

This sums of the game in a short series.

Redskins come back and get within ten 24-14. Giants get INT and are about to put the game away, 31-14.....and the Redskins get a break and intercept it. What does Washington do right after that? ANother Interception, Giants end up scoring anyway. 3 interceptions in about 10 plays.

ANd now right on cue, interception by Cousins. So much for the QB controversy.

[HalcyonDays]

^^ This. And I believe prior to the game, the commentators were talking about the fact that Cousins is doing really good and he has the next few weeks to prove that he should be a starter before RGIII comes back. Well, so much for that.

[merylinkid]

Kirk Cousins is the Jason Garrett of back ups.   Always looks great in preseason.   Not so good in actual games.

 

Of course, it is not hurting that the Giants finally figured out their offense.   But Victor Cruz has got to catch ball if he doesn't want to go another 355 days without a touchdown.

[mojoween]

Are Tampa and Washington that terrible, or is Thursday Night Football a colossally bad idea?

[Minneapple]

Kirk Cousins TOTALLY should be the starter, right Redskins fans? This is what you get for being ready to give up on RGIII after the team mortgaged its entire future for him JUST TWO YEARS AGO.

[Bastet]

Thank you, football gods.  Altar and sacrifice forthcoming.

 

Even though it was only week three, the Giants desperately needed that win against Houston.  But I worried it wouldn't be enough to carry them through a short week and divisional matchup.  There is certainly an extent to which Washington beat themselves, but the Giants are legitimately moving in the right direction.

[Snowprince]

I figured the Giants would take this one, but I definitely thought the 'Skins would put up more of a fight than this. Yes Cousins had a terrible game, but the Giants just plain whipped them in every other phase of the game as well. There's enough blame to go around for everybody. 

[xaxat]

This is the entertainment power of the NFL. Even a crappy, early season blowout can generate drama because the narrative of a team can be thrown out the window in a single game. This afternoon talk radio was all about "What will Washington do with RGIII if Cousins continues to play well?" and "Eli Manning is a bad fit in this new offense!"

 

Not so much anymore. But it can be turned on its head once again ten days from now.

[Snowprince]

As ESPN's Chris "Boomer" Berman would say, "THAT's, why they play the games!" 

[benteen]

My Giants are looking damn good, especially Eli and Donnell. 

[twoods]

Seems like the Giants fans are back on their bandwagon after a nice win (espn and Facebook, not you guys). Now how many games until they throw Eli under the bus again. They've won two SB's with him and get all pissy and boo when they do bad. Try being a Bills fan- I just want one postseason game!

Edited September 26, 2014 by twoods

[topanga]

What's going on with the information bar-thingy at the bottom of the screen? Parts of it seem to change randomly from black and white to color. It's very distracting.

[Popples]

Are Tampa and Washington that terrible, or is Thursday Night Football a colossally bad idea?

 

Yes.

 

I liked the idea of Thursday night games when was every Thursday from Thanksgiving until the end of the season, but even I balked when they decided that all the teams would get one every week. These games have been horrible and I've been tuning into the college ones instead.

[DrSpaceman]

What they should do with the Thursday games is cut down on the number played make them all the week after a bye for the two teams. THat way they are at least rested, not playing two games in 5 days and if teams choose, they can use the etxra days off from the bye week to help prepare for the games.

That would mean they either have to start adding bye week earlier and later in the year OR cut down on the number of games and not do them every week. I don't think the NFL likes either of those options. A week 2 or 3 bye is pretty much useless.

You can do OK week one with it for the champion because its the first game, most teams are down with preseason week 4 on the Thursday or Friday before and the starters miss most of those games.

[JTMacc99]

Thank you, football gods.  Altar and sacrifice forthcoming.

 

Even though it was only week three, the Giants desperately needed that win against Houston.  But I worried it wouldn't be enough to carry them through a short week and divisional matchup.  There is certainly an extent to which Washington beat themselves, but the Giants are legitimately moving in the right direction.

I was so encouraged by how well the offense started to move the ball in week 2 (and terribly discouraged by the way the team Plaxico'd itself by dropped pass on third down, punt -> returned for a TD, fumble ensuing kickoff, give up field goal to go from up one point and moving the ball to down 9.)  The big thing was that the offensive line, with a rookie center playing LG and a back-up playing RG was starting to come together as a unit. 

 

Against the Texans the Giants took what the defense gave them, which was playing the entire game in nickel defense, and used the line to run for almost 200 yards and pick them apart with a ton of short passes.  Against the Redskins, the line looked even better as Eli had all sorts of time, which is exactly what the offense needed given the really depleted Washington secondary.

 

Eli was 16 for 18 at one point, with both of the incomplete passes coming from drops. I think both of the drops were on third downs too, which is interesting only because the Giants were also something like 7 for 9 on third downs to start the game.  Obviously, this kind of stuff won't last for an entire season, but it sure is encouraging to see how well they can play when they aren't bumbling idiots.

[merylinkid]

The Giants always start playing well when people start questioning whether Eli should be benched and/or Coughlin fired.   Someday this won't work, but for now, it brings the team together and gets them going.

[Sharpie66]

I am on vacation in Ireland right now, and stumbled on the Dolphins/Raiders game that is being played in London, so I get to see some American football--yay! It's fun hearing the English commentators they have on talking to various Brit sports figures about their take on the sport. It is a very pro-NFL take they have, so you can tell that they really want the sport to take off in England, if no where else.

[Ohwell]

As much as I love my "'Stillaz," for some strange reason I was happy for Tampa Bay pulling that game out today.

[Rick Kitchen]

Why was CBS using an Australian announcer during their commercial breaks of the Dolphins/Raiders game?  The guy was clearly not English.

[Snowprince]

Who the hell is calling the 49er offense? The Eagles can't stop the run to save their lives, yet San Francisco decides to abandon it? Philly just gift wrapped a touchdown to SF with that fumble. Lets see if the 49ers have seen the light from here on in.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Snowprince

[mojoween]

I've been watching the Yankees coverage since noon so just out of curiousity did Joe mention anything about Jeter's final game?

Also, what the hell Philly? I was expecting a beatdown from what it sounded like on Twitter so I tune in and suddenly it's a one score game.

[merylinkid]

What the hell is going on with the Falcons?   They beat the Saints - barely.   They destroy the Bucs.   But then after each win they fall apart.   They lost to the Teddy Bridgewater less Vikings.   They lost to the back up of the rookie!!!!!!!!

[Snowprince]

It was ugly, but I'll take it. San Francisco didn't win this game...they survived it.

[HalcyonDays]

I'm blown away by some of these lopsided scores.

 

45-14 Giants. 41-17 Colts. 38-10 Ravens. 38-13 Dolphins. 33-14 Chargers (well, that's not surprising), 41-26 Vikings (the Vikings??)

[Mountainair]

I've noticed the same thing. Either you're really good or really bad. I just finished reading a James Patterson novel where a client owns the Raiders. He thinks the mob has the refs in on a fix to call games in their favor. Turned out to be true but all the same, made me laugh thinking of the point spread on wins this week.

Now, by familial association I am a Cowboy fan however I picked the Saints to win and I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate the Saints.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Mountainair

[DrSpaceman]

Yeah i was shocked by Atlanta losing to minnesota. Knocked me out of my eliminator game. A rookie QB for a team with little on offense and no Adrian Peterson puts up 40+ points? Didn;'t see that coming

Actually it looks like the whole NFC South sucks. This was supposed to be one of the best divisions in football, maybe #2 behind NFC West. Atlanta, Carolina lose badly, New Orleans is getting blown out and the lone winner is Tampa Bay in an upset over Pitt.

[merylinkid]

Dallas is letting me down again.   Fortunately it is only the 3rd quarter.   There is still plenty of time for them to blow it.

 

Update:   And now Al and Cris are talking about how great a GM Jerry Jones is.   No he is not.   Stop it.   This is why I wanted a losing season so maybe, just maybe, we could get a real GM.   Otherwise, we get another 20 years of mediocrity.

Edited September 29, 2014 by merylinkid

[AimingforYoko]

A rookie QB for a team with little on offense and no Adrian Peterson puts up 40+ points? Didn;'t see that coming

At one time, Bridgewater was the #1 QB on the board. One bad pro day later and he falls into the Vikings lap at 32. He looks legit.

[ketchuplover]

Packers v. Bears was the second game ever without a punt!