NFL Thread

[Sounder]

10 minutes ago, roamyn said:

That’s not true.  Dolphins & Jaguars don’t...or rather, won’t.  The 49ers have Colt McCoy, but he’s a back up quality quarterback, not a starter.

The 49ers have Jimmy G.   I thought people said he was the next great sure bet..... or at least that's what I heard.  Never actually seen it.   Is all that hype he got simply cuz of *brady?   Never worked before.  Hey THAT'S where Colin can go.

[Sounder]

22 minutes ago, roamyn said:

That’s not true.  Dolphins & Jaguars don’t...or rather, won’t.  The 49ers have Colt McCoy, but he’s a back up quality quarterback, not a starter.

The 49ers have Jimmy G.   I thought people said he was the next great sure bet..... or at least that's what I heard.  Never actually seen it.   Is all that hype he got simply cuz of *brady?   Never worked before.  Hey THAT'S where Colin can go.   But then again..... since *brady gets more protection from the refs than the president gets from the secret service...... he might play till he's 60 and get handed 10 more trophies.

[Ohwell]

For those of you who, like myself, loved that NFL 100 commercial during the Super Bowl, the NFL Network will be airing a behind the scenes making of the commercial on Sunday at 4 eastern time.  

[Sounder]

On 2/28/2019 at 6:42 AM, Ohwell said:

You do realize you're responding to your own quote, right? ; )

I'm simply learning what these symbols do...... I'm a rook here.

[merylinkid]

13 hours ago, Ohwell said:

For those of you who, like myself, loved that NFL 100 commercial during the Super Bowl, the NFL Network will be airing a behind the scenes making of the commercial on Sunday at 4 eastern time.  

Good because some people went by so fast (but we sure got a long look at Tom removing all his rings) that I didn't have time to figure out who they were.   

[roamyn]

On 2/28/2019 at 8:50 PM, Sounder said:

The 49ers have Jimmy G.   I thought people said he was the next great sure bet..... or at least that's what I heard.  Never actually seen it.   Is all that hype he got simply cuz of *brady?   Never worked before.  Hey THAT'S where Colin can go.

Duh...I meant the Redskins.  I’m sorry, I’ll fix it.

[Ohwell]

Oops

Edited March 2, 2019 by Ohwell

[mojoween]

On 3/1/2019 at 5:35 PM, Ohwell said:

For those of you who, like myself, loved that NFL 100 commercial during the Super Bowl, the NFL Network will be airing a behind the scenes making of the commercial on Sunday at 4 eastern time.  

I am so glad that I saw this post and was able to DVR a re-air.  Never in my life did I think I would hear Larry Csonka say “I can’t pop this motherfucker”.

Now that Ed Reed is retired, I can admire how damn good-looking he is.  And LaDanian Tomlinson will ALWAYS be so handsome.

[Ohwell]

2 hours ago, mojoween said:

I am so glad that I saw this post and was able to DVR a re-air.  Never in my life did I think I would hear Larry Csonka say “I can’t pop this motherfucker”.

Now that Ed Reed is retired, I can admire how damn good-looking he is.  And LaDanian Tomlinson will ALWAYS be so handsome.

Larry Csonka had me cracking up.  And Mike Singletary with those eyes, "FUMBLE!!!"  And Bradshaw making the throw and Franco Harris making that catch at the end.  

Also, I wasn't at all surprised that Marshawn refused to wear a tux, lol. 

I loved seeing all those guys.  

[mojoween]

When do we stop hearing about the franchise tag?  It’s getting tiring and overdone.

I’m probably hearing more about it because I follow a lot of Giants news on Twitter and the breathless posts about Landon Collins are numerous, but that’s not it.  DeMarcus Lawrence doesn’t want it!  Dee Ford was offsides!  Jadaveon Clowney is worth it!  

And besides, I’ve been a fan for over thirty years and I still don’t even fully get what the franchise tag is.

[Sounder]

2 hours ago, mojoween said:

When do we stop hearing about the franchise tag?  It’s getting tiring and overdone.

I’m probably hearing more about it because I follow a lot of Giants news on Twitter and the breathless posts about Landon Collins are numerous, but that’s not it.  DeMarcus Lawrence doesn’t want it!  Dee Ford was offsides!  Jadaveon Clowney is worth it!  

And besides, I’ve been a fan for over thirty years and I still don’t even fully get what the franchise tag is.

Slapping a player with the "tag" commits the team to pay him an average of the top three in the league at his position .....but takes him off the open market.

[ae2]

3 hours ago, mojoween said:

When do we stop hearing about the franchise tag?  It’s getting tiring and overdone.

I’m probably hearing more about it because I follow a lot of Giants news on Twitter and the breathless posts about Landon Collins are numerous, but that’s not it.  DeMarcus Lawrence doesn’t want it!  Dee Ford was offsides!  Jadaveon Clowney is worth it!  

And besides, I’ve been a fan for over thirty years and I still don’t even fully get what the franchise tag is.

The franchise tag was intended to allow a team to lock in a player whose contract expired, so that other teams cannot sign the player while they continue negotiating a future contract. It can only be applied to 1 player per team per season, and pays the player an average of the top salaries in the league for their position.

In reality it has been used by teams as a way to keep star players playing on what amounts to a 1 year contract with no future guarantees.

The players don't want that obviously. They want long term contracts with guaranteed money. What if they get injured while on the franchise tag? They might never get that big contract. Since the rookie pay scale is pretty well set, most star players get 1 big contract in their career (although if they stay healthy, good, and lucky, (and play the right position) they might land a second one). So the franchise is a huge risk for the player.

Take Landon Collins as the example. On his rookie contract as a second round draft pick he made basically $6 million over 4 seasons. If the Giants franchise him he'll make $11 million in 2019, which is great for a safety. If he gets injured he'll still get that $11 million, but it will potentially hurt his future earnings or even preclude a long-term contract. When he gets a contract he'll probably earn $9-$10 million per season for 4-5 years with $20-$25 million guaranteed.

That's why so many players have been holding out when they get franchised. They don't get paid while they hold out, but they want the long-term contract (which gives them more guaranteed money). As more and more players start doing this, the franchise tag is going to become useless and possibly even a deterrent. It's keeping super star players like Le'Veon Bell out of the game, which the NFL doesn't want. 

When the collective bargaining agreement is renegotiated (after the 2020 season I think) I expect big changes to the franchise tagging  system. 

[Silver Raven]

Kellen Winslow Jr. arrested for sexual battery on a 77 year old woman.  This comes just a month before his trial begins on multiple counts of forcible rape and kidnapping

https://deadspin.com/kellen-winslow-jr-arrested-after-allegedly-inappropria-1833069078?

[Ohwell]

53 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

Kellen Winslow Jr. arrested for sexual battery on a 77 year old woman.  This comes just a month before his trial begins on multiple counts of forcible rape and kidnapping

https://deadspin.com/kellen-winslow-jr-arrested-after-allegedly-inappropria-1833069078?

This is one sick bastard.  He definitely needs to be taken off the streets for a looooong time. 

[ganesh]

At least he didn't kneel. That would have been a real problem. 

[Ohwell]

...

Edited March 5, 2019 by Ohwell

[Sounder]

8 hours ago, ae2 said:

The franchise tag was intended to allow a team to lock in a player whose contract expired, so that other teams cannot sign the player while they continue negotiating a future contract. It can only be applied to 1 player per team per season, and pays the player an average of the top salaries in the league for their position.

In reality it has been used by teams as a way to keep star players playing on what amounts to a 1 year contract with no future guarantees.

The players don't want that obviously. They want long term contracts with guaranteed money. What if they get injured while on the franchise tag? They might never get that big contract. Since the rookie pay scale is pretty well set, most star players get 1 big contract in their career (although if they stay healthy, good, and lucky, (and play the right position) they might land a second one). So the franchise is a huge risk for the player.

Take Landon Collins as the example. On his rookie contract as a second round draft pick he made basically $6 million over 4 seasons. If the Giants franchise him he'll make $11 million in 2019, which is great for a safety. If he gets injured he'll still get that $11 million, but it will potentially hurt his future earnings or even preclude a long-term contract. When he gets a contract he'll probably earn $9-$10 million per season for 4-5 years with $20-$25 million guaranteed.

That's why so many players have been holding out when they get franchised. They don't get paid while they hold out, but they want the long-term contract (which gives them more guaranteed money). As more and more players start doing this, the franchise tag is going to become useless and possibly even a deterrent. It's keeping super star players like Le'Veon Bell out of the game, which the NFL doesn't want. 

When the collective bargaining agreement is renegotiated (after the 2020 season I think) I expect big changes to the franchise tagging  system. 

So I was right then.......

[roamyn]

But players demanding “guaranteed” money is ridiculous.   I can see having it written in that if he’s injured while playing, that he gets a set guarantee, but these players demanding guaranteed contracts - esp those at the top - speaks of pure greed.

[xaxat]

Oakland is playing hardball with Marc Davis. Good for them! It's not like Davis has much time or other options at this point. I wonder how much the league has gotten involved in this process. Because Davis is clearly not up to the task.

[Minneapple]

On 3/5/2019 at 9:22 AM, ae2 said:

The franchise tag was intended to allow a team to lock in a player whose contract expired, so that other teams cannot sign the player while they continue negotiating a future contract. It can only be applied to 1 player per team per season, and pays the player an average of the top salaries in the league for their position.

In reality it has been used by teams as a way to keep star players playing on what amounts to a 1 year contract with no future guarantees.

The players don't want that obviously. They want long term contracts with guaranteed money. What if they get injured while on the franchise tag? They might never get that big contract. Since the rookie pay scale is pretty well set, most star players get 1 big contract in their career (although if they stay healthy, good, and lucky, (and play the right position) they might land a second one). So the franchise is a huge risk for the player.

Take Landon Collins as the example. On his rookie contract as a second round draft pick he made basically $6 million over 4 seasons. If the Giants franchise him he'll make $11 million in 2019, which is great for a safety. If he gets injured he'll still get that $11 million, but it will potentially hurt his future earnings or even preclude a long-term contract. When he gets a contract he'll probably earn $9-$10 million per season for 4-5 years with $20-$25 million guaranteed.

 That's why so many players have been holding out when they get franchised. They don't get paid while they hold out, but they want the long-term contract (which gives them more guaranteed money). As more and more players start doing this, the franchise tag is going to become useless and possibly even a deterrent. It's keeping super star players like Le'Veon Bell out of the game, which the NFL doesn't want. 

When the collective bargaining agreement is renegotiated (after the 2020 season I think) I expect big changes to the franchise tagging  system. 

It's interesting to see how teams have manipulated the franchise tag. When it was originally added to the collective bargaining agreement, it was seen as a good thing for the players. The franchise players would get the money they deserve. But as time wore on, players became dissatisfied. They didn't want a one-year contract with no guarantee. They either want to be free agents, or they want the safety of a long-term deal. The Eagles didn't tag Nick Foles this year, partly because it may have been seen as quite disrespectful to your Super Bowl MVP who didn't complain a lick about going back to the bench when Carson Wentz was healthy again.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Minneapple

[BitterApple]

On 3/5/2019 at 11:25 AM, Silver Raven said:

Kellen Winslow Jr. arrested for sexual battery on a 77 year old woman.  This comes just a month before his trial begins on multiple counts of forcible rape and kidnapping

https://deadspin.com/kellen-winslow-jr-arrested-after-allegedly-inappropria-1833069078?

Jesus God, will somebody please run over that guy with an 18-wheeler? What a sick pervert.

[Sounder]

31 minutes ago, xaxat said:

Oakland is playing hardball with Marc Davis. Good for them! It's not like Davis has much time or other options at this point. I wonder how much the league has gotten involved in this process. Because Davis is clearly not up to the task.

I don't really think the league can do much...... the original antitrust suit Al Davis won years ago pretty much ties the leagues hands in these matters......let Marc slop around in his own vomit.   As you may be able to tell..... I was a Raider fan once......

[xaxat]

3 hours ago, Sounder said:

I don't really think the league can do much...... the original antitrust suit Al Davis won years ago pretty much ties the leagues hands in these matters......let Marc slop around in his own vomit.   As you may be able to tell..... I was a Raider fan once......

I wasn't referring to the move to Vegas. That's a done deal. What I was referring to was the league providing negotiating/legal expertise to make sure a billion dollar plus asset has a home six months from now. Something Davis is apparently incapable of doing. (And, considering they need to start finalizing and  publicizing schedules soon, they might be in "weeks" territory. For example, the A's are at home the first two weeks of NFL season. They need to start figuring that stuff out.)

[merylinkid]

14 hours ago, roamyn said:

But players demanding “guaranteed” money is ridiculous.   I can see having it written in that if he’s injured while playing, that he gets a set guarantee, but these players demanding guaranteed contracts - esp those at the top - speaks of pure greed.

Why?   The average playing career is 3 years.   They are often left with long term injuries from playing.   Their NFL pension won't be much if they play the average.   Even if they go over the average, that just means long term injuries.

In the meantime, the owners can cut them for any reason or no reason.   They then need to either catch on with another team, possibly uprooting their family or even being forced to retire.   The guaranteed money gives them a little job security.    It's not wrong to get as much money as you can to sustain you later in life while you can or to try for job stability.  

[Kip Hackman]

38 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Why?   The average playing career is 3 years.   They are often left with long term injuries from playing.   Their NFL pension won't be much if they play the average.   Even if they go over the average, that just means long term injuries.

In the meantime, the owners can cut them for any reason or no reason.   They then need to either catch on with another team, possibly uprooting their family or even being forced to retire.   The guaranteed money gives them a little job security.    It's not wrong to get as much money as you can to sustain you later in life while you can or to try for job stability.  

NBA, MLB, and NHL players get guaranteed contracts. I don't blame football players for getting every dollar they can.

Except quarterbacks. F@#k them.

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Apples and oranges.  The rosters of those sports are less than half the size of the NFL, and the NFL plays a mere fraction of the number of games as compared to the other sports in any given season.

 More apples and oranges: the NFL is by far the most profitable sport for ownership.  Its players are also far more likely to suffer debilitating injury from playing it.  The players deserve the opportunity to get what they can while they can.  The hierarchy and ownership have proven time and again that they do not really care about the long term well being of the players; they consider them disposable.  I can't blame any NFL player for trying to get some sort of security for the potential sacrifice of their health and longevity.

With all of the recent evidence of chronic brain injury occurring in football players, even those who never played at a professional level, I think a lot of parents are going to be thinking twice before letting their kids play and the NFL is going to be hurting for players as kids turn to less dangerous sports.  And well they should.  I love football, but not at the expense of the lives of those who play it.

Edited March 7, 2019 by doodlebug

[ganesh]

NFL is way more high risk than the other sports too. If you're expecting me to get 500+ touches per season and ride me into the playoffs, sell jerseys, put butts in seats, and literally one play can end my career? I'm all Goodfellas - "fuck you, pay me."

[Crs97]

With all of the recent evidence of chronic brain injury occurring in football players, even those who never played at a professional level, I think a lot of parents are going to be thinking twice before letting their kids play and the NFL is going to be hurting for players as kids turn to less dangerous sports.  And well they should.  I love football, but not at the expense of the lives of those who play it.

I feel like I am seeing this on a high school level.  Ten years ago our high school was a state champion and area powerhouse.  Now that my kids have reached that age (and, thank goodness, never had an interest in football beyond one season of flag), their friends who played as kids are dropping football for other sports.  The pee-wee football league here seems to be shrinking while basketball and baseball are growing.  We are a small town, but I wonder if it will ever truly hit the NFL.

[Minneapple]

It's not even just about the NFL being high risk. It's just -- if they can get guaranteed money, why wouldn't they? The owners are paying the salaries and these are guys who have so much money that they have hundreds of millions or even billions to play around with via an NFL franchise. If you have leverage, why wouldn't you make those owners guarantee your salary? 

Guaranteed money via a signing bonus used to be more popular with NFL players. Those have basically given way to players asking for guaranteed money in long-term deals. Stability is nice, I suppose, and players do like staying with one team for awhile. But free agency is an option, too. That's why the players went on strike in '87.

[ganesh]

I thought spreading the money over years is less of a hit on the cap than the one time signing bonus. 

[Sounder]

12 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

The easy solution is to have the Raiders play all of their home games on the road, in various parts of the country that don't have an NFL franchise.  That way, their opponents won't have extra home games.

I think the easiest and most obvious thing the raiders do is just go to Vegas now..... Sam Boyd Stadium is small.....but so what...... its not permanent.    They let the chargers do it.   Did UNLV say no?

[mojoween]

The NFL ratings increased last year throughout the season.  I think the problem with the Super Bowl was fuck the Patriots.

My Twitter timeline cracked me up this morning.

Ian Rapaport - the Steelers are going to trade Antonio Brown to the Bills.

Adam Schefter - the Bills were never close to getting Antonio Brown.

Well ok then!  Thanks for clearing that up.

[merylinkid]

The ratings for the Super Bowl were down because 1) the Patriots were playing .... again.   2) while the Rams are in a big market, they just didn't have the following yet to bring in the eyeballs.  3) it was a boring as hell game, lots of people tuned out.

NFL is up.   NBA is actually DOWN.    But all sports watching on tv overall is down.   Variety of reasons including cord cutting.    With the exception of the LA teams, most teams had pretty full stadiums.   

[Sounder]

20 minutes ago, mojoween said:

The NFL ratings increased last year throughout the season.  I think the problem with the Super Bowl was fuck the Patriots.

My Twitter timeline cracked me up this morning.

Ian Rapaport - the Steelers are going to trade Antonio Brown to the Bills.

Adam Schefter - the Bills were never close to getting Antonio Brown.

Well ok then!  Thanks for clearing that up.

That was exactly it......I've passed on the last two super bowls now because of that.... it has such a tainted history dating back to the tuck rule incident through the filming practices to the using deflated balls and *brady basically being a bitch about being suspended and it all feels so forced and unreal.  After that "roughing" call against KC in the title game.....*brady didn't get touched and there was even a guy in the damn way.  But the *patriots were gonna have to punt and .......you know the rest.    Maybe I'm not the only one.   I wanted to put my fist through the tv.....that's how the league is making me feel nowadays.   If it weren't for the Seahawks.... I doubt I'd return for next season ...... I look forward to the NFL every year like a kid.....but when I know how it ends..... I puke.

[Sounder]

Then the NFC...... Man the Saints got screwed on something that was so obvious..... its almost like the league didn't want them there because of *you know who....... I guess the Eagles didn't read the script.   Man I HATE sounding like a conspiracy theorist...... but these "things" keep me thinking and going hmmmmm.......

[Kip Hackman]

On 3/7/2019 at 8:25 AM, icemiser69 said:

Apples and oranges.  The rosters of those sports are less than half the size of the NFL, and the NFL plays a mere fraction of the number of games as compared to the other sports in any given season.

You misunderstood me.

I never said that football players should have guaranteed contracts. I said that I don't blame them for getting every dollar they can, because they don't have guaranteed contracts.

Which was in response to players being called "greedy".

[ganesh]

They could work out who gets guaranteed contracts in a CBA or how. I don't think it's a binary option. 

[Moose135]

8 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

The reason why I keep going back to roster size is simple.  Guaranteed contracts would have to apply to the main roster as well as the practice squad.  That is a huge  number of players.  There is little doubt in my mind that guaranteed contracts will result in shorter term deals with fewer dollars offered.

But I also think a large number of players - both on the roster and practice squad - aren't going to be able to command long-term, high dollar, guaranteed contracts.  You will have a certain number - 15, maybe 20? - who can get a deal like that, but most don't have the leverage to get more than a year or two at medium bucks.  The way teams have been printing money, it's not like they can't afford it.

[xaxat]

You guys know me. I'm always pro any player not named Ray Lewis.

But fuck Antonio Brown.

[Minneapple]

On 3/8/2019 at 5:30 AM, icemiser69 said:

The reason why I keep going back to roster size is simple.  Guaranteed contracts would have to apply to the main roster as well as the practice squad.  That is a huge  number of players.  There is little doubt in my mind that guaranteed contracts will result in shorter term deals with fewer dollars offered.

I have no problem with guaranteed contracts, I just understand why they could be problematic in a sport where players on average have very short careers.

As popular as the NFL is, the one thing that doesn't seem to be popular is Thursday night football.  I could be wrong, but I thought broadcasters who aired Thursday night football were losing money.

IIRC, this past Super Bowl had lower ratings.   Los Angeles might not be a great sports town when it comes to the NFL, but I do believe that given the size of that market, ratings for the Super Bowl should have been much higher.  IMO, most cities who don't have great support for their pro teams usually have more support for them when they are successful.   Front runner or bandwagon fans.

I do think the popularity of the NFL is on the decline.   I don't know how many of the younger folks have any interest in the NFL.

I guess the NBA is gaining in popularity.  I have hated the NBA ever since the Bill Fitch Celtic crap which I think took place back in 1980 or 1981.  I thought Fitch should have been booted out of the league, the Celtics should have been stripped of draft picks and barred from the playoffs over several years.  I have never taken the NBA seriously since then, and I was a Supersonics fan at the time.

NFL regular season ratings were up this year. NBA ratings are down. You know why? It's because Lebron is playing in Los Angeles and the Lakers suck. The NBA is a league that heavily depends on star power. Joel Embiid could be one of the next generation of stars, but he's not there just yet. Maybe Zion Williamson. 

The Super Bowl had lower ratings because it was the exact opposite of the matchup everyone wanted -- Chiefs and Saints. 

Nick Foles signed today with the Jaguars, a four-year $88 million contract. $50 million is guaranteed. Not bad for Foles. Teams are throwing money around like crazy today.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Minneapple

[bosawks]

Wow, that’s a lot of money for Nick Foles.

Good for him, $50 million guaranteed is nice and I’d be shocked if he wasn’t an upgrade over Bortles.

But, damn, that’s a lot.... 

[mojoween]

What in the holy fuck are the Giants doing

[Jx223]

I hope Odell does very well with the Browns. I was already looking forward to watching them next season and this is another reason to watch them.

[Moose135]

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

What in the holy fuck are the Giants doing

Holy crap, I'm just seeing that.  What the hell are they thinking???

[xaxat]

Eli is a free agent after next season. 

I don't think he's getting an extension.

[roamyn]

2 hours ago, mojoween said:

What in the holy fuck are the Giants doing

There’s a new King of the North, baby!

The Squealers are a mess, the Ravens lost a TON of defensive players, and the Bengals are...well the Bungles.

I don’t think I’ve been this excited abt Browns football since the Bernie, Hanford, Frank, Clay (Sr), Earnest, et al days.

[ganesh]

OBJ has to be one of the biggest trades in the NFL. Baker must be dancing in the streets. 

[AgentRXS]

Damn Giants. I'm never going to hear the end of this at work tomorrow.

[roamyn]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

OBJ has to be one of the biggest trades in the NFL. Baker must be dancing in the streets. 

As ecstatic as I am, I feel for Haskins, the Giants likely #6 pick.

Edited March 13, 2019 by roamyn

[Sounder]

9 hours ago, roamyn said:

There’s a new King of the North, baby!

The Squealers are a mess, the Ravens lost a TON of defensive players, and the Bengals are...well the Bungles.

I don’t think I’ve been this excited abt Browns football since the Bernie, Hanford, Frank, Clay (Sr), Earnest, et al days.

They haven't been good since then.