S14.E05: Gunn And Heid

[theatremouse]

Or had an earpiece telling her to... (just wondering aloud)

[xtra-innings]

Lindsey is two for two in working in a team where one person shuts down.

I'm sooo glad Scissor B*tch is gone just for the fact that she took up 80% of

the talking heads and whined how nothing is her fault during most of it! 

Speaking of scissors,  I don't care if she did want to cut just one thread.  She

should have had her own scissors with her or waited patiently for Laurie to get done.

I don't blame Laurie for wanting to finish what she was doing because sometimes stopping

throws you off your game when you are concentrating.

[slothgirl]

The consensus here seems to be agreement with Amanda being auf'd.  I'm dumbfounded by this, as I thought her look was the best of the episode (not just on her team but of both teams combined).  AINEC for my money.  Huh.  I guess I just have bad taste.

I didn't think it was the best of the episode, but I also didn't think it was the worst of her team. I think if she had turned in better looks in previous challenges, she wouldn't have been on the bottom or auf'ed for this one.

Edited September 8, 2015 by slothgirl

[dgpolo]

She could have used her teeth to cut one thread, and the (admittedly few) sewing machines I've used, had an edge (not sure what to call it) that was specifically for cutting the threads on the machine when you were done sewing the seam.

 

Can't really get behind major conspiracy theories, I would think if things got out of hand they'd get in trouble like the game shows in the '50s, or someone would sue, or something.

 

But, having said that, I really can't come up with any explanation of why Merline's jumpsuit only of the M&M team had pink paint. For that matter, looking at the pics on the PR site (and I agree that it is horrible, hate that damn ad every couple of pics) nobody looks like they have enough paint on them for the amount shot at them.

[English Teacher]

I think Ashley was both hurt from the selection snub and then felt adrift because there was no direction in the group. Her inability to do anything may not just have been from sulking, but from recognizing that the dysfunctional team opted to ignore the important point of the challenge (cohesion) and just do whatever they wanted....and we will make it fit together later. She knew they were doomed, they ignored her when she tried to warn them, and then she just got stuck.

I'm not a fan of her designs, but I do understand and empathize with her reaction to being picked last. Anyone who has been bullied or has been a true outsider does not feel comfortable in groups. After she thought she earned some tacit respect from earlier wins and a great experience partnering with Candice, being the last one chosen shattered her. I would have felt the same way. So when she listened to everyone talking over each other, I don't think she was was as much pouting as feeling as if they wouldn't want to hear her opinions anyway. And then was proven right when her attempts were ignored.

My dvr cut out before the previews...anything good up ahead for next week?

[PepperMonkey]

I'm done commenting on the performance of Ashley and the Harpies, but I just stopped by to read up and had to comment:

 

Slacker, you most certainly do NOT have bad taste, I am sure. I thought Candice and Kelly tied for the worst garment on the runway in this challenge, with Amanda's not being horrifically horrible. However, she was such a joy suck and blamer from the first challenge, I am just uber relieved to have her gone.

 

Also, at least Candice's dress/outfit had some ideas in it. Really, I thought Kelly's was the worst of the worst. And still, Amanda's was just okay. Nothing she has done since she arrived on the scene has been stylish, just okay, sometimes not even okay. She's one of the first contestants on a show like this that I have specifically wanted gone because of how they treat others, and behave in the workroom, on the runway, and in her many, MANY talking heads.

[slothgirl]

I think Ashley was both hurt from the selection snub and then felt adrift because there was no direction in the group. Her inability to do anything may not just have been from sulking, but from recognizing that the dysfunctional team opted to ignore the important point of the challenge (cohesion) and just do whatever they wanted....and we will make it fit together later. She knew they were doomed, they ignored her when she tried to warn them, and then she just got stuck.

I'm not giving Ashley a pass on "the team" having no direction. She was a member of the team. It was not just everyone else's responsibility to provide a direction for her. It was hers too.

 

Other people on the team brought up the lack of cohesion and direction. Pretty much everyone agreed that it was a problem except Candice. None of the others ignored the point, and several of the others also brought it up.

 

Also, pretty much everyone kept waiting for someone else to tell them what the direction was... just like Ashley did. She wasn't the only one who didn't have much to contribute while waiting for a "boss" to give them answers and tell them what to do, but I don't excuse her for it any more than I excuse anyone else.

 

For a team with so many people trying to avoid just sticking their neck out and making waves and instead choosing to "go along to get along", they certainly didn't get along very well!

Edited September 8, 2015 by slothgirl

[meep.meep]

Purple is considered death though in fashion. It's NEVER fashionable.  Nor is Pink. That was the women's options (made worse by the fact that they were given no true Reds to use--even the paint was Pink).

 

The girls could have taken a page from the boys and focused on the 60's. Jackie Kennedy made pink suits the height of fashion and Carnaby Street pushed orange and neon yellow.

Their problem wasn't the colors, it was lack of a concept or theme to focus on.

[Kromm]

Can't really get behind major conspiracy theories, I would think if things got out of hand they'd get in trouble like the game shows in the '50s, or someone would sue, or something.

Reality Competition shows haven't felt bound by those "game show" rules since the days when Survivor started. There are many specific examples out there you can look up if you choose--although most of them go unproved or little discussed.  Why?  Well for the same reason people don't sue.  More on that later.

 

The theory that they may have deliberately given out unequal colors, whether people agree or not if it happened (or hurt them if it did), doesn't in my mind count as a "major conspiracy".  It's a relatively minor, passive thing that could be done with no effort, no real accountability, and would be comparatively small compared to shows where actual results have been fixed, or skill contests tailored to specific contestants, or results manipulated by changing scoring on the fly (or the rules behind the scoring).  All of these things and more actually happen, as do whispering suggestions in contestants' ears.  While in this case, if they actually DID allow other colors, it might be mitigated here, you do have to wonder why BOTH teams stuck to their own colors if any had been available. Stupidity is one possible reason.  But it's not outrageous, given the known history of Reality TV, that off-camera they might have been instructed that they had to remain within a particular palate--even if one or two other colors (in the women's case probably orange and purple paint) were also available to them. I mean just because we heard that they had other paints available that doesn't mean it was ALL of them.

 

As for why people don't sue?  Simple. The fairly ironclad contracts they sign to be allowed on the show in the first place. Where they surrender pretty much every penny they make from the show, or more, if they talk about what went on behind closed doors, or try to take further legal action.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Kromm

[slothgirl]

Also, at least Candice's dress/outfit had some ideas in it. Really, I thought Kelly's was the worst of the worst. And still, Amanda's was just okay. Nothing she has done since she arrived on the scene has been stylish, just okay, sometimes not even okay.

I agree Candice's had some potential.

 

In order of potential of the design elements showing in the final garment, I'd rank the girls' team:

 

Candice

Amanda

Kelly

Ashley/Lindsay/Laurie. They were either: boring and forgettable (Laurie) or frumpy (Ashley) or dated (Lindsey), so I can't really rank them individually. None of those 3 designs had anything special going for them or any potential IMO.

 

However, In order of technical execution of the design, I'd almost flip flop it to be:

Lindsey

Amanda

Ashley

Laurie

Candice

Kelly

 

Surprisingly, only Amanda makes it into the top in both lists for me.

Candice and Kelly sacrificed execution in the course of trying to design something interesting, and Laurie, Lindsey and Ashley each had a "just clothes" look (as Michael Kors would say) that was properly finished and fit, but blah.

Edited September 8, 2015 by slothgirl

[gingerormaryann]

If anything, Ashley's behavior also fed into the stereotype that women are overly emotional and take things too personally.  Another sexist notch in the girls' team's belt.

 

Sabotage?  The runway lines told stories that were consistent with what we saw in the workroom.  I understand why people want to make excuses because what the group itself suggested was that these all female work environments are toxic.  It's tough to argue when they come up with a terrible collection that encapsulated so much of that dysfunction.

[Kromm]

Oh never mind!  I thought I'd stated reasonably overtly that if the producers did anything it was neither specifically targeted towards the women (but only to one specific group, whoever belonged to it) nor in any way unsurmountable--just that it seemed like an imbalance to stir the pot and create drama, basically. If true, it wouldn't be me (or anyone) intending to make excuses for the women, just saying that there was a mitigating factor that softened the situation a bit but didn't justify it. 

 

It was also never intended to imply that I thought that there weren't plenty of things they could have done to fix the situation. Reality shows doing stuff like this is something we've all seen countless times before. The disadvantages are rarely to never insurmountable. That's not the point of them--because the show considers it a win-win whether the teams melt down or triumph (either way the show has a bigger story than they would have had otherwise).

 

I know that the show did apparently say that they had multiple paint colors available (something I missed the first time around, I admit). I DO still think it's weird they wound up only using the same colors they were originally assigned, but that seeming suspicious is hardly proof of anything. I realize that.

 

So given that last bit, if the idea now seems that ridiculous or really is coming off as offensive excuse making, I apologize--and lets forget about it.  

Edited September 8, 2015 by Kromm

[Pallida]

I have a different conspiracy theory rabbit hole we can go down! In the website photo, Merline looks like she only got hit by the colors the Red Team was hit with. (Okay, Edmond has a smidgen of pink too.)

[slothgirl]

I have a different conspiracy theory rabbit hole we can go down! In the website photo, Merline looks like she only got hit by the colors the Red Team was hit with. (Okay, Edmond has a smidgen of pink too.)

We can look to the person who did the shooting with the gun that held the pink pellets... Joseph... and theorize accordingly..

 

Ready, set.. GO!

 

;)

[film noire]

 

 

The theory that they may have deliberately given out unequal colors, whether people agree or not if it happened (or hurt them if it did)

 

I think the point is that people disagree  -- based on the work of dozens of upscale designers throughout history -- that pink and purple create an unfashionable and/or  unequal situation. Once that premise is nullified by looking at real world design, any idea of some kind of unfair burden disappears.

 

And if the women had pulled it off  and we were oohing and aahing about their use of color  -- McQueen meets Pucci! -- then the MM team would have been seen to have the disadvantage. It is the talent and design eye of one team that makes the other team seem unfairly situated. (And you don't need an actual Pucci to pull it off. Mondo broke my heart by turning into a peevish, bitter spirit -- why, Mondo, why? -- but he would've worked those colors into something stunning.)

Edited September 8, 2015 by film noire

[Bebecat]

If the firls team had produced good, crisp,looks that formed a collection, the colors would not have mattered much, Imo. But they didn't and all just made desperado pieces to get through. They acted like there were more than two teams and they were going for being safe.

I feel for Ashley but this is not the kind of show (well, no reality show is) if you are sensitive to cliques, team choosing, pettiness, etc. PR has been on forever and what goes on there is well-documented and no one on the show has any excuse for not knowing what to expect. There will always be silly challenges, team-picking, some dumb physical manner of obtaining fabric, etc. and there will always be proma donnas, whiners, backstabbers, etc...it is not a place for the faint of heart. If you are not tough and maybe even a bit brutal, you probably won't last. She really let the other women knock her off her "game", so to speak. Though as I said before, I have not been impressed by her two wins, really, and I do not believe she will be in the final three. But we shall see.

[Beden]

 

She could have used her teeth to cut one thread, and the (admittedly few) sewing machines I've used, had an edge (not sure what to call it) that was specifically for cutting the threads on the machine when you were done sewing the seam.

Thank you. I have used a bit more than 'a few' sewing machines and, yes, the great majority have thread cutters on them, They're a simple, small and protected so you don't cut yourself blade you just run the thread over. Easy-peasy, And we're talking thread here, two pieces of thread (top and bobbin). This isn't like trying to cut through titanium.

 

Talk about a mountain and a mole hill.

[needschocolate]

Took way too long to watch the episode this week ....

 

I didn't see Ashley as "shutting down" as much as not wanting to make things worse.  There was some reason they picked her last - it could have been any combination of a number of things - they are mean girls, she's is bigger than they are and they knew it was somewhat physical, her aesthetic is different, she's bossy, they don't like her, etc (we will probably never find out).  If I were in that situation, my feelings would likely be hurt, but I would also be thinking "I don't want to give them anything that supports that they were right to pick me last, so I will be as much of a team player as possible.  I will let the team decide and go along with them."  No one else was pointing out that they needed to be cohesive, and perhaps Ashley didn't want to prove that she is the odd one out. 

 

My first thought when I saw that they had white fabric and extra paint was that they should make the garments then paint them.  Maybe  do some sort of hombre or paint a bolder pattern - much easier to line up the print.  Of course, they would have to be careful that it doesn't look like a coloring project.  When I saw what the women's Easter explosion fabric, I immediately thought "put it in some water before the paint sets.  Their team was really foolish - you have a limited amount of material, make a sample, don't cover the whole thing.  They popped those paint pellets like they were popping bubble wrap - I guess once you start popping, it is hard to stop. 

 

I wasn't surprised that the women did poorly as a team - too many of them seem to be over-confident (Amanda, obviously, but Candace was too, in thinking that her guidance would keep Amanda out of the bottom). But I was surprised at how well the men got along - given the way some behaved in the partner challenge and Blake's unwillingness to help the team in the paintball portion and his general demeanor. 

 

I thought I noticed Amanda's eyes light up during one of her talking heads when it seemed to dawn on her that, since it was a team challenge, she had someone else to blame if she went home. 

Edited September 8, 2015 by needschocolate

[jrlr]

 

I thought I noticed Amanda's eyes light up during one of her talking heads when it seemed to dawn on her that, since it was a team challenge, she had someone else to blame if she went home. 

Of course!  If Amanda was on stage all alone, there were no other contestants and there was a criticism of her work - she'd STILL find a way to blame something or someone else because, poor Amanda, nothing is ever her fault.  I'm still puzzled by Candace picking Amanda to be her Eliza Doolittle; it was either genuine but misplaced belief in Amanda or it was pure hubris, thinking she could spin gold out of straw.  I'm also puzzled that not ONE of the women had the brains to stop at the beginning of that clusterf... and say, "Wait!  We need to come up with a theme." When (Tim, I think) was in the workroom and each of them said what she was making,they were nearly ALL dresses - one pair of pants and no separates - although that did change before they hit the runway.  How could that many supposedly competent designers completely miss the point of it being a TEAM challenge?  Oh well, at least we got rid of Amanda, and good riddance to the whiny little cow!

[BrittaBot]

 

Even though I was born 50 years after my grandparents came to the US, I was still subjected to the 'dumb Polack' taunt throughout my childhood and teenage years. It IS a slur. Since I have an IQ in the 99.6th percentile, I know that I am certainly not 'dumb'. But it still stings.

 

I was born in Poland, though immigrated to the US before I even went to elementary school. It is a slur. Speaking of high school mentality, I got into a fight with a high school friend because when we went off to college, she wrote bla bla something something, ya Polak on my facebook wall. I simply deleted it and asked her not to say that word anymore because it offended me. And she flipped out on me and somehow turned into my fault. And I was like Bye. 

 

On topic: Not offended by a mispronunciation of Pollack that happens to sound like the word.

[izabella]

If the firls team had produced good, crisp,looks that formed a collection, the colors would not have mattered much, Imo. But they didn't and all just made desperado pieces to get through.

 

That's how I see it.  I, personally, liked the fabric colors the women's team had, except for the purple.  However, not one of them designed anything a person could even wear, much less was remotely fashionable or fashion-forward.  Even with the worst colors, the judges would have been able to see GOOD design, but there wasn't anything good about their designs, colors aside.

[Tony]

This was a pretty straight forward challenge that the girls screwed up badly. They could have easily gone with a cohesive theme using the paints and materials given. For instance, they can use the paints to create outfits for a Boho theme or deconstructed the paintball uniforms to make shirt dresses for a Hamptons theme.

 

There were two failings that brought them down IMO - lack of effective leadership (Candace sure as hell wasn't a leader) and a sulking team member that brought down the team dynamics. At the risk of victim-blaming, I do believe that Ashley's attitude contributed to her issues this episode.

 

At the end, the right person got auf'ed. Amanda's work was mediocre and was a joy suck since the first challenge. Does anyone else see a resemblance to Laura Kathleen? (both looks and personality)

[slothgirl]

Here's the ending I wish we had gotten based on this challenge and the results:

 

The entire M&M (men and Merline) team wins and gets immunity next challenge.

 

The entire Women's team loses and gets put on probation, with no elimination. At the next challenge, any one of them landing in the bottom again gets automatically auf'ed even if it means auf'ing 3 people next episode. (and it probably would.. refresh my memory.. other than the Edmond/Hanmiao disaster have any of the remaining men been in the bottom yet? I'm pretty sure that 3 people from the women's team would likely be in the bottom again next episode, especially if Amanda wasn't eliminated this go round)

 

The show needed the equivalent of the SAG "Best Ensemble" award. Teamwork is a large part of any industry and the entire M+M team should have been rewarded for how well they pulled together, not just Edmond.

 

I doubt it would make much difference in the order of eliminations. It would be the logical response to the results and what we were shown. It would create drama without the Ashley as Victim theme that they didn't really back up with workroom scenes or talking head interviews of people trash-talking her.

Edited September 8, 2015 by slothgirl

[Julia]

Does anyone else see a resemblance to Laura Kathleen? (both looks and personality)

 

Yes. Same bottle blonde with dark roots and eyebrows by sharpie, same excessive lipstick and greasy-looking pressed waves in the talking heads, same baffling insistence that they have taste.

[guilfoyleatpp]

I really really disliked the neckline on Amanda's dress.  It was so shapeless and uninspired. The dress itself - meh - take it or leave it. Certainly not a disaster, although not total love either.  But that weird not quite a V, sort of rounded, plunging neckline? WTF was that?

I used to make these babydoll dresses in college.  Before I discovered how I could totally rock (and easily sew) a square neckline, I tried a few - a mis-shapen V/skinny U being one of them. That dress reminded me of those ill fated experiments. The fabric was even similar, with the batik/tie dye style being popular at the time. (Along with the onions on our belts - the simpsons? anyone?)

[slothgirl]

There was some reason they picked her last -  (we will probably never find out).

Oh, I'm 99.9% sure this will get revisited, not only next episode, but most likely addressed at length in the final "wrap" show.

 

I'm also pretty sure that nothing we learn going forward will change anyone's opinion of any of the participants or of what happened.

 

If a viewer is inclined to take a particular side, nothing any other contestant says about the incident will make any difference.

Edited September 8, 2015 by slothgirl

[auntlada]

It was the style at the time, guilfoyleatpp.

Here's the ending I wish we had gotten based on this challenge and the results:

 

The entire M&M (men and Merline) team wins and gets immunity next challenge.

 

The entire Women's team loses and gets put on probation, with no elimination. At the next challenge, any one of them landing in the bottom again gets automatically auf'ed even if it means auf'ing 3 people next episode. (and it probably would.. refresh my memory.. other than the Edmond/Hanmiao disaster have any of the remaining men been in the bottom yet? I'm pretty sure that 3 people from the women's team would likely be in the bottom again next episode, especially if Amanda wasn't eliminated this go round)

 

The show needed the equivalent of the SAG "Best Ensemble" award. Teamwork is a large part of any industry and the entire M+M team should have been rewarded for how well they pulled together, not just Edmond.

 

I doubt it would make much difference in the order of eliminations. It would be the logical response to the results and what we were shown. It would create drama without the Ashley as Victim theme that they didn't really back up with workroom scenes or talking head interviews of people trash-talking her.

If the men plus Merline have immunity, then the bottom three would be from the women's team. Unless you mean picking a bottom three from everyone regardless of immunity but only booting those without immunity.

[sinkwriter]

 

If a viewer is inclined to take a particular side, nothing any other contestant says about the incident will make any difference.

 

Depends on what is said, I suppose. I do try to at least listen to both points of view. (But I also readily admit that I have a bias toward women who struggle with body image, self esteem and weight issues of any kind.)

 

I will be interested to hear what everyone has to say about it, because you know they'll drag that out for drama during the episode before the finals.

Edited September 8, 2015 by sinkwriter

[slothgirl]

If the men plus Merline have immunity, then the bottom three would be from the women's team. Unless you mean picking a bottom three from everyone regardless of immunity but only booting those without immunity.

Having immunity has never prevented anyone from being put in the bottom; it only prevents them from being eliminated.

 

Regardless, I fully expect all 3 bottom dwellers next episode to be women. Merline may squeak in there, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a bottom 3 made up of contestants all from the women's team, and I'd be gobsmacked if anyone from the men's team gets auf'ed next (with the possible exception of Merline, who Tim will then most likely save)

 

So I doubt there's any chance of someone from the M&M team actually going home next episode.

 

I'm also predicting that very soon now, the judges are going to ding Ashley for relying too much on her pleating theme and advise her to show more range or get sent home. Saying this next episode will provide maximum drama because so many people are rooting hard for her after the last episode. 3 or 4 challenges from now, it won't have the same viewer impact.

Edited September 8, 2015 by slothgirl

[slothgirl]

 I also readily admit that I have a bias toward women who struggle with body image, self esteem and weight issues of any kind.

I have a bias towards people who are accused with scant evidence, especially when what little evidence that does exist points primarily to one person but a whole group gets blamed based on their weight and/or race, and the history of their words and actions revised to fit pre-conceptions.

 

I'm especially disturbed that Kelly is being lumped into some "mean girls" label. She's shown no evidence of any bad behavior/attitude towards her fellow contestants in her interactions or her talking heads. It's completely believable that she really did think Ashley's outfit was the worst up there (besides her own, and she can hardly name herself!) Her aesthetic and Ashley's are MILES apart. She tried hard to resist naming anyone. I don't think the girl has a mean bone in her body.

 

If Candice says that her eyerolling talking head about designing and sewing was filmed when asked about her first collaboration with Ashley or at a point when she was talking about Lindsay and Jake, no one is going to believe her without video evidence.

 

Likewise, I'm not going to believe Kelly is mean without video evidence. I'm not particularly inclined to believe Lindsey is mean either, either directly or through subconscious prejudices.

Edited September 8, 2015 by slothgirl

[NewDigs]

Bolding mine

Of course! If Amanda was on stage all alone, there were no other contestants and there was a criticism of her work - she'd STILL find a way to blame something or someone else because, poor Amanda, nothing is ever her fault. I'm still puzzled by Candace picking Amanda to be her Eliza Doolittle; it was either genuine but misplaced belief in Amanda or it was pure hubris, thinking she could spin gold out of straw. I'm also puzzled that not ONE of the women had the brains to stop at the beginning of that clusterf... and say, "Wait! We need to come up with a theme." When (Tim, I think) was in the workroom and each of them said what she was making,they were nearly ALL dresses - one pair of pants and no separates - although that did change before they hit the runway. How could that many supposedly competent designers completely miss the point of it being a TEAM challenge? Oh well, at least we got rid of Amanda, and good riddance to the whiny little cow!

Or, in the back of her mind she was thinking, Cannon fodder. And she dressed it up with a face-saving lie.

That might have been the worst "team" I have ever seen not work together. Why does no one challenge Candace?

Felt bad for Ashley but her being selected last could be spun as Candace thinking that Ashley was more solid competition than she wanted. Take the weak, leave the strong.

A stretch, I know. It was just such a turnaround from last week's love fest. I figured Candace would pick her first!

Nice to finally see some semi-redemptive Blake qualities.

Edited September 8, 2015 by NewDigs

[needschocolate]

There was some reason they picked her last -  (we will probably never find out).

 

Oh, I'm 99.9% sure this will get revisited, not only next episode, but most likely addressed at length in the final "wrap" show.

 

Oh, it will probably be mentioned, but, if any reasons are given, they will be what they want us to think is the reason, not necessarily the real reason. Some may be telling the truth, but we can never know for sure.    

[SlackerInc]

Mondo broke my heart by turning into a peevish, bitter spirit -- why, Mondo, why?

 

Sorry for going on an off topic tangent, but I must have missed something.  What did Mondo do?  I thought he was always a joyful, eternally boyish elf.

[WearyTraveler]

Oh, it will probably be mentioned, but, if any reasons are given, they will be what they want us to think is the reason, not necessarily the real reason. Some may be telling the truth, but we can never know for sure.    

 

It's like we're CIA spies! Who can we trust? Who will tell us the truth!?

[Julia]

Sorry for going on an off topic tangent, but I must have missed something.  What did Mondo do?  I thought he was always a joyful, eternally boyish elf.

 

He was an abusive little horror on Under the Gunn.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Julia

[sinkwriter]

 

It's like we're CIA spies! Who can we trust? Who will tell us the truth!?

 

In the words of The X-Files: TRUST NO ONE.   ;)

[dgpolo]

I'm trying really hard not to believe in a 'great right wing conspiracy' or at least production induced ones, but between Merline's pink painted overalls and X-Files quotes my resistance is fading.

ETA:

 

Might you say it is futile?

;)

Edited September 9, 2015 by dgpolo

[auntlada]

I'm trying really hard not to believe in a 'great right wing conspiracy' or at least production induced ones, but between Merline's pink painted overalls and X-Files quotes my resistance is fading.

Might you say it is futile?

[Calamity Jane]

He was an abusive little horror on Under the Gunn.

I lost a lot of my regard for him on All Stars, too.  Just never saw the joyousness after his first season. 

[film noire]

Sorry for going on an off topic tangent, but I must have missed something.  What did Mondo do?  I thought he was always a joyful, eternally boyish elf.

All Stars -- he was so sour about not winning, it seemed to seep out of his pores. 

Edited September 8, 2015 by film noire

[AwesomO4000]

Btw, speaking as someone who was overweight and now is thin, "Thinsters" aren't some cabal of dark lords secretly collaborating to keep fat women down. There are some serious issues in our culture as a whole regarding female body image, fashion, and media, but casting women with a BMI under 23 ("thin" is a subjective comparative measure, so I picked a random objective form of measurement) as scheming villains constantly subsisting only on raw lettuce and water is just as nonsensical and unproductive as casting all fat women as lazy slobs. Do some people act horribly towards individuals due to their weight? Yes. But assuming that all the women (and apparently the men too, as they didn't select her either) somehow loathe her for a physical quality is beyond reaching. There isn't some grand Anti-Fat conspiracy at work.

 

And it also depends on the time. When I grew up, thin was not in - at all. It was all about filling your Chic jeans and Laura Ashley blouses, and some of us who were scarily thin with no curves at all were often teased and bullied, often by those who would be considered larger by today's standards. I heard it all the time, especially Stick and Bones (my most common "nickname"). I was considered unattractive and was physically bullied by average-sized and larger girls. I was the skinny equivalent DUFF of the group, the designated skinny, strange friend. I would eat and eat, but never could gain weight in high school. I was so happy in college when I finally put on a few pounds. I was healthier for it, too (I got sick a lot when I was skinny). Even now when my metabolism has changed again, and I'm tipping over into the large range (the change of life has not been kind to me in that regard), I wouldn't go back to my skinny days.

 

My point being that this is all subjective and you have to choose what to do with it. Once you leave high school it may be tough, but you've got to put that all behind. Find something about yourself you do like, and focus on that, and be good at that to the point that you are happy and  proud of yourself. Times might change again with some other looks subjective thing that you can't live up to coming along. Ashley needs to focus on her wins and be confident in that, and forget that the "Mean Girls" don't like her. So what? It's not like they are necessarily going to win anyway, and if you think they are jerks, why should you care if a bunch of jerks like you? All it can do is mess up her confidence and stifle her creativity.

 

I felt some sympathy for Ashley, but if she doesn't do something with it and pick herself up, that sympathy is only going to go so far, and then I'm going to feel she should be piloting her own destiny. I didn't see Merlene all moping and feeling sorry for herself for being picked almost last - though granted we didn't get much footage from over that team.

[guilfoyleatpp]

And it also depends on the time. When I grew up, thin was not in - at all. It was all about filling your Chic jeans and Laura Ashley blouses, and some of us who were scarily thin with no curves at all were often teased and bullied, often by those who would be considered larger by today's standards. I heard it all the time, especially Stick and Bones (my most common "nickname"). I was considered unattractive and was physically bullied by average-sized and larger girls. I was the skinny equivalent DUFF of the group, the designated skinny, strange friend. I would eat and eat, but never could gain weight in high school. I was so happy in college when I finally put on a few pounds. I was healthier for it, too (I got sick a lot when I was skinny). Even now when my metabolism has changed again, and I'm tipping over into the large range (the change of life has not been kind to me in that regard), I wouldn't go back to my skinny days.

 

My point being that this is all subjective and you have to choose what to do with it. Once you leave high school it may be tough, but you've got to put that all behind. Find something about yourself you do like, and focus on that, and be good at that to the point that you are happy and  proud of yourself. Times might change again with some other looks subjective thing that you can't live up to coming along. Ashley needs to focus on her wins and be confident in that, and forget that the "Mean Girls" don't like her. So what? It's not like they are necessarily going to win anyway, and if you think they are jerks, why should you care if a bunch of jerks like you? All it can do is mess up her confidence and stifle her creativity.

 

I felt some sympathy for Ashley, but if she doesn't do something with it and pick herself up, that sympathy is only going to go so far, and then I'm going to feel she should be piloting her own destiny. I didn't see Merlene all moping and feeling sorry for herself for being picked almost last - though granted we didn't get much footage from over that team.

Big hugs...goes to show it's hard to be on either side of that equation.

 

We must have grown up somewhere near to each other in age (chic jeans), but I remember everyone emphasizing/loving the coke-skinny figure. As in, no hips, no boobs. I'm sure somewhere people liked butts and boobs, but not where I lived. They were gauche.  Too bad we couldn't have traded. :)

 

 

You're right that we can't live our lives guided by the adolescent cruelty of others - but it does tend to stay with you. I want Ashley to bust out of whatever it is that's holding her back too. I'm not sure if she's going to make it to the end but I bet she'll be around for a while because of the drama she invokes. 

[Honey]

For a very positive, self-confidant person, being picked last could be taken as a compliment.  You are sooo good nobody wants to have to compete against you on the same team.

[WearyTraveler]

For a very positive, self-confidant person, being picked last could be taken as a compliment.  You are sooo good nobody wants to have to compete against you on the same team.

 

I don't understand this reasoning.  You're not competing against people from your own team, you're competing against the other team.

 

At the end of the runway show "one person from the winning team will be the winner and one person from the losing team will be out". I'd want all the previous winners in my team, not someone I think I can easily beat.  I'd want to ensure that those people end up on the other team.  It was a 6 look collection, if 4 out of 6 of my team's design are great and two are bad, we could still be declared the winners (it has happened in the past) and then I will be safe.  If 4 out 6 designs in my team are crap, my team will be in the bottom and then I could be on the chopping block, even if my design is good (backstabbing, not getting along because I had a bad day or because I'm not very good in team environments... pick your reason).

 

It's just not a good strategy.

Edited September 8, 2015 by WearyTraveler

[Julia]

I don't understand this reasoning.  You're not competing against people from your own team, you're competing against the other team.

 

At the end of the runway show "one person from the winning team will be the winner and one person from the losing team will be out". I'd want all the previous winners in my team, not someone I think I can easily beat.  I'd want to ensure that those people end up on the other team.  It was a 6 look collection, if 4 out of 6 of my team's design are great and two are bad, we could still be declared the winners (it has happened in the past) and then I will be safe.  If 4 out 6 designs in my team are crap, my team will be in the bottom and then I could be on the chopping block, even if my design is good (backstabbing, not getting along because I had a bad day or because I'm not very good in team environments... pick your reason).

 

It's just not a good strategy.

 

It's not. And that's where I saw Candice's Achilles heel. She didn't think about running faster than the bear. She only thought about running faster than the other people running from the bear.

 

Which is sad, really, because for all that she's seemingly shaped her public persona to be She Who Must Be Obeyed, it doesn't seem to have occurred to her that she's the bear. Or at least she could be.

 

What's even sadder is that Blair apparently never doubted he was the bear for a minute.

[NewDigs]

But, at the end of the day, if you do find yourself on the losing team you are competing against your team mates.

And usually the strongest survive.

It seems nonsensical but it is an oft used reality strategy.

I think.

[auntlada]

For a very positive, self-confidant person, being picked last could be taken as a compliment.  You are sooo good nobody wants to have to compete against you on the same team.

 

That would be the surplus of awesomeness that people often cite as a reason others voted them off the island/out of the house/whatever. It doesn't work so well here because the other contestants don't vote you off.

[Mabinogia]

The picking the strongest competition to be on your team could go either way. On the one hand, it could get your team to the win but you won't necessarily be the winner because you have that competition. However, if you lose, you don't want the strongest competition on your team because that's one less person who will likely be voted out. If Candace were more secure in her own skills she would have picked Ashley. That she chose Amanda, the weakest link, means to me that Candace isn't as confident as she pretends to be.

 

I honestly think the ganging up on Ashley was the girls (that's what they acted like this challenge so that's what I'm calling them) seeing their only chance of getting a strong competitor out of the game. Nothing about her personally or her being heavy but all about "if we don't get rid of her now she will be here longer than any of us".

 

I thought the Boys + Merlene collection was actually really well done. I liked every piece better than anything on the girls team. Seriously, picking a worst look on team Easter was hard. They all had issues. Kelly's was...WTF, Candace's was much sloppier than I expect from her, Ashley's was a great ruffle on a crap top with a skirt I made in middle school (only mine was in Easter pink rather than Easter purple. But it was otherwise he exact same skirt. A circle with a seam and a zipper). I think I liked Laurie's the best. It was really simple but cute. Ironically, I kind of liked the tent, but I really dislike Amanda  so I'm good with her leaving. I thought Lindsey's was okay.

 

On the boys + Marlene team I liked everything but that gown and Swapnil's dress were both stunning. This should have been a double win.

 

Hate Kelly Osborne.

[guilfoyleatpp]

House of Worth. Purple dress.

(I'm sorry, they keep jumping into my lap like little purple fish)

https://www.facebook.com/thecorsetedbeauty/posts/1474258006209645

[Kromm]

I'm sure Nina Garcia might describe that as "fresh and original" before someone informed her it was from 1901.