Baking on Both Sides of the Atlantic: Food and Culture

[ABay]

Watching a US cooking show (instructional not competitive) the other day reminded of something on GBBO that always looks weird to me: the bakers dump dry ingredients like flour and sugar from glass containers into a bowl. I realize they're measuring by volume instead of cups and the bowl is probably on a scale, but it still looks odd.

[Rinaldo]

I think hard-core bakers on both sides of the Atlantic will tend to do the same: measure the ingredients by weight. (Except for tiny amounts like a teaspoon of flavoring.) Unlike general cooking, baking is based on near-scientifically precise proportions among elements, and weighing ensures that. Any modern scale will have a "tare" function that cancels out the bowl's weight so one knows exactly how much is going in.

 

I hope that PBS eventually shows some of the "master classes" that Paul and Mary do after a competition ends, in which they show how they themselves would make some of the challenges. They're constantly weighing for each other and we can hear the precise quantities they're requesting. Paul seems to pride himself on getting the weight just right while pouring in a devil-may-care way.

[Rickster]

Never heard of a picnic pie before. Is that a common thing in Britain? Is it similar to the US pot pie?

One key difference is (I think) the UK pies like these are usually served cold.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I saw this article and thought of all our discussions!

Britons express astonishment that America has never heard of the humble sausage roll

[jenh526]

One key difference is (I think) the UK pies like these are usually served cold.

 

Finding that difficult to comprehend... reminds me of when my little brother used to eat hot dogs straight out of the refrigerator. :P

[DHDancer]

I wouldn't say a picnic pie was common, in fact I had to google what it was. Pork pies are very common and pork pie and egg are fairly common.

Picnic Pie is the category that pork pies, ham and egg pies, and other cold pies of the type fall into.  These are pretty common in the UK.  And interestingly they are usually made with a hot water pastry, something not mentioned on GBBS in either of the two series I've seen.

 

Re HP (aka brown) sauce, I find A1 an okay substitute if pressed.  HP is becoming much more common as already mentioned, and yeah, it's pricey.  It's not hard to make your own if you're up for it :) (google offers plenty of options)

[morakot]

I miss Scottish mutton pies. My supermarket in Seattle had them briefly and I bought what I could. Hot water pastry with a rim around the lid to hold mashed potatoes but even without -- delicious.

[Silverleaf]

Hot water crust pastry was mentioned in episode 7 of the series just aired.

[Athena]

12 minutes ago, forumfish said:

Someone mentioned a pronunciation or word differences topic -- I don't see one yet, so I'll ask here:

Do any non-American, non-British folks use the term "proove" for bread dough as used in the show, rather than "proof" that is used in the U.S.?

@forumfish I moved your post here to the Baking on Both Sides of Atlantic forum which does discuss differences in baking and food across anglophone countries.

As a Canadian, I have used "prove" for dough. e.g. I proved the dough two times.

[Lamb18]

Where I live we don't say "prove" or "proof." It's just "letting it raise or rise."

[dubbel zout]

It's a pro baking term.

[larapu2000]

So, iced buns.  Is the dough sweet, or is it the icing that makes them sweet?  If you didn't add the icing, could you make that into a hot dog bun?  Is this really more like a sweet sandwich situation?  I'm curious.

[Rinaldo]

I've never had one, but they've come up on several iterations of the series. They always talk about it using "enriched dough," which in this case means including butter, milk, eggs, and sugar. So no, it wouldn't make a good hot dog bun though it looks like one.

[Athena]

1 hour ago, larapu2000 said:

So, iced buns.  Is the dough sweet, or is it the icing that makes them sweet?  If you didn't add the icing, could you make that into a hot dog bun?  Is this really more like a sweet sandwich situation?  I'm curious.

Yes, it is an enriched dough which does have eggs and sugar, but it's not overtly sweet. The icing does make it sweet. It's not really a sandwich or I don't think of it as such. The dough is similar to brioche.

[dubbel zout]

Challah is similar, too. It's the filling and/or icing that make things sweet, not so much the bread itself (though of course it's richer than regular white bread and rolls).

[rereader2]

On 8/15/2016 at 8:08 PM, dubbel zout said:

Challah is similar, too. It's the filling and/or icing that make things sweet, not so much the bread itself (though of course it's richer than regular white bread and rolls).

That would be egg challah that is richer. There is also water challah, which is never filled and is never sweetened--more like regular bread. (And challah is never iced!)

[editorgrrl]

On August 15, 2016 at 8:06 PM, Athena said:

Yes, [iced buns are] an enriched dough which does have eggs and sugar, but it's not overtly sweet. The icing does make it sweet. It's not really a sandwich or I don't think of it as such. The dough is similar to brioche.

A year or two ago, savory sandwiches on brioche were popular here in northeast US. (For example sliders, which are tiny ground meat sandwiches, or lobster salad.)

Yuck.

[iggysaurus]

Brioche is still a very popular choice for sandwiches in Portland, where I live! It's very common to see a burger on a menu described as being "on a brioche bun." It's not gross to me - it doesn't taste sweet or anything. It's just a slightly eggy, more flakey version of any other type of roll you'd put a burger or sandwich on. 

[afterbite]

Pretty basic question, but it's baffled me since the beginning of my GBBO odyssey: When they say sponge, do they just mean cake in the way people in the US call things cake? They're always talking about making the sponge for their layer cakes, etc, and I can't determine if it actually differs from what we'd use here for the cake layers in a layer cake or if they're essentially the same thing but just with different names.

[Rinaldo]

Just think UK sponge = US batter, when it comes to cake.

It may not be 100% the same, because sometimes some details of method differ, but you'll be thinking pretty much correctly. We in the US have a thing called a "sponge cake," but that's much more specialized than the British usage of the word.

[afterbite]

Quote

Just think UK sponge = US batter, when it comes to cake.

This soothes my sponge-uncertainty anxiety so much. Thanks! Now I can relax about the 'what the *()&_ is a sponge' thing and continue to be gently amused by the very, very vast gulf between what Americans generally put in desserts vs what Brits put in a dessert.

[meep.meep]

Don't forget to say it like Paul would:  spunge.  Seems so much more exotic that way.

[Rinaldo]

What other way is there to say it?

[ali59]

I'm watching the Master Class episodes and Mary & Paul keep saying "Heat your oven to "whatever temp" FAN."  What does FAN mean?

[Athena]

2 hours ago, ali59 said:

I'm watching the Master Class episodes and Mary & Paul keep saying "Heat your oven to "whatever temp" FAN."  What does FAN mean?

Convection oven. This means that you lower the temp for convection/fan assisted. A lot British recipes will list multiple temperature settings for this reason. For example in Paul's Stollen recipe: 190C/375F/Gas 5 (fan 170C).

[Megan]

This was literally just answered, dumb me just skimmed the posts.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Megan

[J-Man]

This isn't so much a US/UK thing as a pronunciation thing: Why do almost all of the contestants say "creme patisserie" instead of "creme patissiere?" Mary and Paul seem to be the only ones who are using the correct term. 

Another pronunciation difference-- and this one is more US/UK: genoise. I've always heard it pronounced the French way in the US (zhen-WAHZ), but everyone on GBBO seems to say jen-oh-WEEZ, which sounds like "Genoese," the demonym in English for someone or something from Genoa. 

I don't think we've yet discussed the different meanings of jelly (US: jam-like substance made from fruit juice and no pieces of fruit; UK: fruit-flavored gelatin (what we generally refer to in the US as Jell-O, even though that's a brand name). Is that correct?

Also is a Swiss roll what we call a jelly roll? And what's a Bath bun?

[Rinaldo]

6 hours ago, J-Man said:

This isn't so much a US/UK thing as a pronunciation thing: Why do almost all of the contestants say "creme patisserie" instead of "creme patissiere?" Mary and Paul seem to be the only ones who are using the correct term. 

That's a simple mistake on the part of the contestants; maybe the wrong word is more frequently encountered (as a patisserie shop) so it's what their minds jump to? And though I haven't done a count, it doesn't seem like "almost all" the contestants do this, but certainly a noticeable number. My own question is why it's customary there to bother with this term at all, rather than calling it "pastry cream."

6 hours ago, J-Man said:

Another pronunciation difference-- and this one is more US/UK: genoise. I've always heard it pronounced the French way in the US (zhen-WAHZ), but everyone on GBBO seems to say jen-oh-WEEZ, which sounds like "Genoese," the demonym in English for someone or something from Genoa. 

Yes indeed. This was remarked on here when the show started airing in the US. There are plenty of examples of each country assimilating the pronunciation of a foreign word into local phonetics, and the surprising differences between the US and the UK on this, each side righteously insisting that its own way makes more sense (the British seem to stick with French pronunciation of "restaurant" and "trait" for instance). But this seems especially odd to me because they're using an English translation (both words mean "from Genoa") without making the spelling modification that would justify it. 

6 hours ago, J-Man said:

I don't think we've yet discussed the different meanings of jelly (US: jam-like substance made from fruit juice and no pieces of fruit; UK: fruit-flavored gelatin (what we generally refer to in the US as Jell-O, even though that's a brand name). Is that correct?

Yes, that's correct. I think the UK meaning used to be current in the US a century or more ago (I've come across a reference in popular children's literature of that period to poor children trying to imitate an elegant dinner by "melting the jelly" to come up with something to put in fancy glasses). But at some point it diverged.

I'll yield to experts on Swiss rolls and Bath buns.

[Athena]

7 hours ago, J-Man said:

Also is a Swiss roll what we call a jelly roll? And what's a Bath bun?

To my understanding, yes, a Swiss roll is a jelly roll.

A bath bun is a sweet roll from yeasted dough that usually has dried fruit (raisins, currants) in it. I don't think there's really a North American counterpart. Brits usually have a lot of sweet rolls made from enriched doughs. 

[dubbel zout]

Maybe a hot cross bun comes closest?

[Jesse]

I'm looking at Jane's sausage rolls recipe, and what's the sausagemeat called for? Just ground pork, or is it already seasoned?

[DHDancer]

52 minutes ago, Jesse said:

I'm looking at Jane's sausage rolls recipe, and what's the sausagemeat called for? Just ground pork, or is it already seasoned?

sausage meat is not just ground pork: it is already seasoned and may contain some kind of cereal or breadcrumbs as "filler".  Just use Jimmy Dean's or similar to achieve the same results (I've baked sausage rolls on three continents and have used JDs but usually prefer to make my own sausagemeat for which there are numerous recipes out there)

On 6/15/2017 at 8:20 AM, dubbel zout said:

Maybe a hot cross bun comes closest?

Not quite.  A bath bun is "plainer" than a HC bun, usually no citron/candied fruit.  But essentially it is an enriched dough with some dried fruit in it.

[Jesse]

OK, so it is actual sausage that she's just adding more stuff to -- just checking!

[DHDancer]

Just now, Jesse said:

OK, so it is actual sausage that she's just adding more stuff to -- just checking!

Yep pretty much :)  I LOVE sausage rolls!

[Jesse]

Thanks!

[DHDancer]

This has been said before but here's the simple translation:

US Jelly = UK Jam  OR UK Jelly (jam with no seeds or pulp -- made with juice and sugar)

UK Jelly = US Jello.

[dubbel zout]

You can also use cased sausage, but remove the casing. (Make sure it's not cooked.)

[DHDancer]

Just now, dubbel zout said:

You can also use cased sausage, but remove the casing. (Make sure it's not cooked.)

Yep.  But using JDs or bulk sausage saves you the step of removing the casings :)

[dubbel zout]

Sure, but you get a wider choice with cased sausages, like merguez or linguica.

Edited August 7, 2017 by dubbel zout

[DHDancer]

1 minute ago, dubbel zout said:

Sure, but you get a wider choice with cased sausages, like merguez or linguica.

ABsolutely true but using those doesn't make a traditional sausage roll :)

[Athena]

Bumping this thread up as we've had more recent UK vs US discussions.

On 7/24/2018 at 1:49 PM, J-Man said:

I also learned that they don't use the honorific "Doctor" for surgeons, for some reason. They just use Mr. Or Ms. with their surnames.

The Royal College of Surgeons has a question in their FAQ about this.

[carrps]

Interesting. I'd heard years ago that surgeons evolved from barbers, and so were not considered doctors. Your link's explanation sounds more logical.

Thanks to everyone for explaining flapjacks. In the UK cop show Scott and Bailey, Janet Scott is given a flapjack by the "sexy knackered" detective as a sort of love token. It looked like a scrunched up piece of toast wrapped in plastic wrap. A granola bar sounds better. :-)

Edited July 27, 2018 by carrps

[enoughcats]

That glorious Georgian Manor in the background of seasons 2 and 3 can now be yours, with the 50+ acres and assorted out buildings.

Lovely photos, even one of the indoor kitchen with its massive AGA. 

Anyone want to go tenths on it?

[Mabinogia]

That kitchen is AMAZING! as is the rest of the house. But I'd be quite happy just living in that tree house. 

[Quilt Fairy]

4 hours ago, enoughcats said:

Anyone want to go tenths on it?

Maybe twenty-ths?  

[halopub]

From an episode thread:

6 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

What’s the problem with the word oriental?  Is it not a word that the average American would understand?

So American context....At best it's considered a patronizing, outdated Eurocentric term that harkens back to imperialism. While ignorance lingers, it really hasn't been acceptable for use here since the Vietnam war era. At worst, it's a super negative, pejorative term that was used to help stoke immigration/terrorism fears. (We had effin' internment camps for Americans in WW2 and before that, Yellow Peril laws like the Chinese Exclusion act.) The umbrella term became further loaded with violent, hateful, racist baggage in the 1970s after a 1965 immigration law lifted racial discrimination in quotas and highly educated immigrants from countries like Taiwan once again were allowed in.

[kokapetl]

British use the term Asian for South Asians (India/Pakistan/Bangladesh), and Oriental for East Asians. There’s far more South Asians than East Asians in Britain.

Not that there isn’t a twatishness colonialism about it all. 

[Athena]

49 minutes ago, kokapetl said:

British use the term Asian for South Asians (India/Pakistan/Bangladesh), and Oriental for East Asians. There’s far more South Asians than East Asians in Britain.

Using "Oriental" for a person is considered offensive. Britons of older generations may use it because of ignorance, but most people under 50 in the UK know not to use it anymore. As @halopub and @Rinaldo mentioned, the use of "Oriental" to describe objects or movements in art is outdated as well. In the UK, official forms use "Chinese" or "East Asian" now so there is no need to call people "Oriental" .

[Ceindreadh]

38 minutes ago, Athena said:

Using "Oriental" for a person is considered offensive. Britons of older generations may use it because of ignorance, but most people under 50 in the UK know not to use it anymore. As @halopub and @Rinaldo mentioned, the use of "Oriental" to describe objects or movements in art is outdated as well. In the UK, official forms use "Chinese" or "East Asian" now so there is no need to call people "Oriental" .

But in the context of the show, the term wasn’t being used to refer to a person but an inanimate object. 

Is that also considered offensive?

[Athena]

7 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

But in the context of the show, the term wasn’t being used to refer to a person but an inanimate object. 

Is that also considered offensive?

I was only addressing the OP's use of it for a person. Personally, I don't find it offensive when used for objects but at best, it is outdated and archaic.