Baking on Both Sides of the Atlantic: Food and Culture

[ceebee]

Mentioning doughnuts reminds me of another question provoked by past seasons. In this US I think it's fair to say that the default image of "doughnut" is torus-shaped, a ring with a hole in the middle. There are certainly variants that don't have the hole, especially filled versions, but I think this is true as a generalization. But when they've made doughnuts on TGBBO, they're always solid masses, more or less spherical, never a hole. Is this distinction true, or am I deducing with insufficient evidence?

You see both kinds. I think the iced ring type might be a more recent import(?). I used to live near a Krispy Kreme place and you could smell the sugar half a mile away. The spelling (and the smelling) annoyed me, so I never went inside! :-).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I'm not sure how recently you mean by recent, but both the chains like Dunkin' Donuts and the little mom and pop bakeries always had iced donuts with the holes in the middle when I was a kid!

[Rinaldo]

Toast is breakfast or snack food, so you can put anything on it I guess - beans, cheese, jam, peanut butter, marmite (yeugh!), eggs etc. Do you not do this too? 

That list is a great example of the "so similar and yet so different" divide between the UK and the US. Yes, one can put lots of things on toast. Cheese, jam, and peanut butter are equally popular options here, though only one of those at a time. Marmite itself is unknown here except sometimes by name, as a "legendary" foreign condiment. Eggs... they certainly belong on a breakfast plate along with toast, but usually side by side rather than one on top of the other (except in a handful of specific dishes like "poached egg on toast"). And beans... I know from my visits to my beloved England how popular baked beans are as a breakfast item, but the whole idea still seems strange to me, however hard I try to embrace unfamiliar concepts.

[ceebee]

I'm not sure how recently you mean by recent, but both the chains like Dunkin' Donuts and the little mom and pop bakeries always had iced donuts with the holes in the middle when I was a kid!

Oh, quite possibly they've always been like that, I just don't recall. My only excursion into the doughnut world was a brief spell in the '80s living in Austria when I developed an addiction to their (not holey) sugar covered, cream and jam filled Krapfen. Dunkin Donuts never reached the small town I grew up in. But then not much else did either!

Edited September 1, 2015 by ceebee

[GaT]

Toast is breakfast or snack food, so you can put anything on it I guess - beans, cheese, jam, peanut butter, marmite (yeugh!), eggs etc. Do you not do this too? Or do you mean bruschetta type things? Crushed broad beans with feta, tomato and basil etc on griddled crusty bread - the kind of thing you might have as an appetiser or just with drinks?

Nope, we don't do this. Toast is a breakfast food, or something you use for a sandwich, but as a snack, not so much. If I wanted a snack, toast wouldn't even be a thought to me.

[Rinaldo]

Well, to be fair, there are certain hors d'oeuvres items (could also be appetizers) that are bits of things on bits (rounds, triangles, etc.) of toast, that are common at cocktail receptions in the US. Those could be considered to be in the "snack" realm.

[larapu2000]

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Do you mean the kind of cafés that serve breakfast food? (Varies from the humble 'greasy spoon' to more brunchy sourdough-wielding fancy-pants places). Toast is breakfast or snack food, so you can put anything on it I guess - beans, cheese, jam, peanut butter, marmite (yeugh!), eggs etc. Do you not do this too? Or do you mean bruschetta type things? Crushed broad beans with feta, tomato and basil etc on griddled crusty bread - the kind of thing you might have as an appetiser or just with drinks?

 

I think I mean the cafes that serve breakfast food (I've mainly seen this in the fantastic coffee shops London has).  And, erm, no...Americans eat toast as like a side dish at breakfast, used to dip into runny egg yolks.  We might put peanut butter & jelly on toast, but it probably more often goes on untoasted bread.  If we're putting eggs on a piece of bread, we're slapping another piece of bread on there and making it a sandwich.  

 

But I love that you could give so many examples of things that British people eat on toast, lol.  

 

I'd also like to add that I was weirded out by beans for breakfast AND on toast, and I am now a converted believer.  Delicious.

Edited September 2, 2015 by larapu2000

[Athena]

Bringing this over from the 5x05 ep thread:

 

Adding to the Anglo-American divide...the word "sultana," and the pronunciation of "pita." Plus is oblong an acceptable shape for pita bread? I've only ever had round ones.

 

Something I noticed early on in the UK is that "pita" is "pitta".

 

I've seen both oblong and round. The shape and technique varies by region. The longer shape is great for filling and wraps.

[bybrandy]

In the US Pita is with a long e.   Sounds like Peeta.  

I can't say toast as a snack is completely unheard of in the US.  melted cheese on toast was one of the first things I was allowed to make by myself for a snack that used an unsupervised heating element.   That said?  I'm not sure I have had it since I was allowed more time with the heating elements.  Now I'd be way, way, way more likely to make a grilled cheese sandwich than cheese on toast.

And quite frankly while I agree that in America toast is a side order to breakfast.    But it was always the gross, dry bit to me.  So I'm not a fan.  Now a bacon egg and cheese sandwhich with a really runny yolk?  Oh, yeah.    

[ceebee]

I'm fascinated that toast is so unappealing! Is it the bread, perhaps? I know in some European countries they sell bread called toast which is meant for toasting and nothing else. Inexplicably, all the other lovely breads they have don't get toasted, just these horrid dry squares. Sliced bread here varies in quality massively, but it's the same stuff you'd make into a sandwich, plus there's a whole range of more interesting bread available from the supermarket and really good stuff if you're lucky enough to have an artisan bakery nearby. The nicer the bread, the nicer the toast, obviously.

[Rickster]

I always thought the idea behind the dry European bread sold as "toast" was that it was sort of a convenience food, pre toasted for people who didn't have access to a toaster or the time to toast bread, not that you stuck the dry bread in a toaster. But maybe I'm thinking of something different.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Rickster

[shandy]

CEEBEE, in the uk I noticed a lot of students had upright toasters in their dorm rooms, whereas, at least in my college, toaster ovens occupied a similar niche, but offered a lot more flexibility. Both totally against dorm rules! My college days were accompanied by the ping of a toaster oven but nachos or grilled cheese was the way to go, and I'm talking about the poverty driven kraft slice version. Dry toast was for when i had no money and had come off the meal plan, not a treat! Nowadays I do sometimes have open face toast as a snack, with cottage or cream cheese, and lox, instead of a bagel. I also like yeast extract on toast, but prefer vegemite to marmite. My young nephews love nutella on wheat toast, although my sister will only allow it on the weekends.

 

Aren't those oblong pitas for stuffing Döners (gyros)? I'm guessing that's a hint to their popularity in kebob/kebab crazy Northern Europe. 

[ceebee]

I always thought the idea behind the dry European bread sold as "toast" was that it was sort of a convenience food, pre toasted for people who didn't have access to a toaster or the time to toast bread, not that you stuck the dry bread in a toaster. But maybe I'm thinking of something different.

I think both exist. I've definitely had bread (in Germany and France) called 'toast' which you then ...erm... toast, but I've seen the stuff you mean as well. And yes, I think it was called toast, too. Who knew humble old toast was so variable.

I had to laugh last night watching an episode of Celebrity Big Brother (please, don't judge me!) in which there is a Team USA pitched against Team GB celebs. For a task the Americans had to 'serve' the Brits and some of the Brits wanted toasted soldiers for a snack.... It took about 5 attempts.

[halopub]

I'm fascinated that toast is so unappealing! Is it the bread, perhaps? I know in some European countries they sell bread called toast which is meant for toasting and nothing else. Inexplicably, all the other lovely breads they have don't get toasted, just these horrid dry squares. Sliced bread here varies in quality massively, but it's the same stuff you'd make into a sandwich, plus there's a whole range of more interesting bread available from the supermarket and really good stuff if you're lucky enough to have an artisan bakery nearby. The nicer the bread, the nicer the toast, obviously.

 

Nope, we don't do this. Toast is a breakfast food, or something you use for a sandwich, but as a snack, not so much. If I wanted a snack, toast wouldn't even be a thought to me.

 

In the Bay Area, Portland and New York there was that widely criticized trend towards $4+ artisan toast last year - they were being served as snacks and bar food with their own dedicated menus. I haven't heard much about it lately, though.

 

It may be overdone now, but I know I'm always up for a simple avocado toast as a snack. It's just as yummy on simple white bread as the fancier stuff.

[ceebee]

CEEBEE, in the uk I noticed a lot of students had upright toasters in their dorm rooms, whereas, at least in my college, toaster ovens occupied a similar niche, but offered a lot more flexibility. Both totally against dorm rules! My college days were accompanied by the ping of a toaster oven but nachos or grilled cheese was the way to go, and I'm talking about the poverty driven kraft slice version. Dry toast was for when i had no money and had come off the meal plan, not a treat! Nowadays I do sometimes have open face toast as a snack, with cottage or cream cheese, and lox, instead of a bagel. I also like yeast extract on toast, but prefer vegemite to marmite. My young nephews love nutella on wheat toast, although my sister will only allow it on the weekends.

 

Aren't those oblong pitas for stuffing Döners (gyros)? I'm guessing that's a hint to their popularity in kebob/kebab crazy Northern Europe.

Yes, I would think a toaster would be essential student equipment these days along with a kettle (both really cheap to buy, too). Am I right in thinking most American homes don't have electric kettles, or is that out of date?

Pitta/pita. I noticed Mary pronounced it pee-ta, though most here would say pitt-a, but both sound right to me. I would never have thought to describe pittas as oblong. Didn't that just come from Alvin not being sure what they looked like? Anyway, I always think of them as ovals! I've seen mini ones that were round. And, yes, the perfect receptacle for a kebab! Not eaten one in donkeys years, but in student days a 'doner' was typically how we'd round off a 'big' Friday night out on the 2am walk home. Messy!

[Rinaldo]

Am I right in thinking most American homes don't have electric kettles, or is that out of date?

I would never have thought to describe pittas as oblong. Didn't that just come from Alvin not being sure what they looked like? Anyway, I always think of them as ovals! 

You're probably right about the kettles. I'm sure plenty of people have them (some popular cooking shows have pushed them as multitaskers), but they're not as ubiquitous as they seem to be in the UK. Those who like tea are more apt either to heat water on the stove, or use the microwave.

 

Oblong, oval... same idea. Longer in one dimension than in the other.

[Rickster]

A minor point that I was reminded of on the Bread episode shown on PBS, and maybe only noticeable to bread bakers, but on GBBO they always refer to "proving" the dough containing yeast. In the US it is called "proofing". No idea why this is, and I'd guess the UK term makes more sense.

[Qoass]

Well, now that you're on the subject of toast, can someone please explain "Texas Toast" to me?  Is it just like regular toast only bigger?  And if so, why do people have to buy it from the frozen food section of the supermarket?  Making toast at home really isn't too hard.

[jenh526]

Rhubarb seems more popular in Britain than in the US. I'm a child of the 70's and rhubarb pie used to be fairly common back then, but now you rarely see a pure, unadulterated (with strawberries) rhubarb pie in the US. I die a little inside when anyone uses rhubarb (esp. from their garden!) on GBBO.

 

Oh, and to pile on with the basil pronunciation.... what about oregahhhhno.

[larapu2000]

Well, now that you're on the subject of toast, can someone please explain "Texas Toast" to me?  Is it just like regular toast only bigger?  And if so, why do people have to buy it from the frozen food section of the supermarket?  Making toast at home really isn't too hard.

 

Texas toast IS bigger than regular toast but it's generally just a thicker slice.  Restaurants use it in the US for French Toast quite a bit (unless they're fancy and then they use fancy bread).  The frozen stuff you're referring to I think is a Texas Toast garlic bread product, and it's frozen because there's massive amounts of butter in there that maybe can't be refrigerated?  I'm guessing it has to do with shelf life and quality.  But the garlic bread product I believe is also a thicker cut only, not a larger loaf or anything.

[Christina]

A minor point that I was reminded of on the Bread episode shown on PBS, and maybe only noticeable to bread bakers, but on GBBO they always refer to "proving" the dough containing yeast. In the US it is called "proofing". No idea why this is, and I'd guess the UK term makes more sense.

 

When I first read this, I thought it might just be a regional accent here in the US, since I have lived most of my 39 years in SD, NM and OH and always heard it pronounced "proving", but could see where it would sound like "proofing". Then, this morning on Martha Bakes, I would swear Martha Stewart said she was "proofing" her Brioche. I kept listening but she never seemed to say it again, and I probably wouldn't have even noticed it not for this comment.

[Rickster]

Whether the word proof is being pronounced like prove is something I hadn't thought of, but pretty much every baking book or article I've seen published in the US spells it proof.

[halopub]

In this old clip, Martha Stewart does appear to use "proof" and "proofing" rather "prove." (4:46)

 

Wikipedia says both terms are used but interestingly no contributors have specifically designated 'proving' as British usage.

[Qoass]

I think it's part of the decay of the English language along with roofs becoming "rooves".

 

(And I don't care if you've "always" said rooves.  It's wrong.)

Edited September 21, 2015 by Qoass

[shandy]

I wonder if 'proving' is a french import - in French you preuve! 

[larapu2000]

I'm intrigued by millionaire's shortbread after the episode that aired in the US this week.  Does anyone have a good recommendation for a recipe for this?  I don't mind metric recipes either.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I'm intrigued by millionaire's shortbread after the episode that aired in the US this week.  Does anyone have a good recommendation for a recipe for this?  I don't mind metric recipes either.

FYI - many of the recipes from the show are online (they are often posted on the GBBO website after the episode airs). This is Frances' recipe for millionaire shortbread and this has recipes for several items made on GBBO including millionaire's shortbread. Be sure to let us know how they turn out!

[emma675]

I have a question--what is icing sugar? I noticed several of the recipes mentioned that ingredient.

[Athena]

I have a question--what is icing sugar? I noticed several of the recipes mentioned that ingredient.

 

Powdered sugar.

[Stinger97]

Powdered sugar.

 

We also call it confectioner's sugar, if I'm not mistaken, unless there's a difference between those two. I've always used the terms interchangeably, however. 

[Rinaldo]

From what I see online, US "powdered sugar" and "confectioners sugar" are absolutely the same product under different names.

 

Now, as to whether UK "icing sugar" is exactly the same thing? some sites say yes, others say that the US product has a slight amount of cornstarch (UK cornflour) added to prevent clumping, but in practice the two will work the same. One Australian site mentioned "icing sugar MIXTURE," which has the cornstarch and thus is more precisely identical to American powdered sugar; I don't know if they have that in the UK. Anyway, it appears that they're close enough to be considered equivalent in any baking situation.

 

Now as to other sugars? ("Caster sugar," which appears to be more like US "superfine" sugar than our regular "granulated sugar," and then all the brown sugars....) I'm staying out of all that for now.

[Rickster]

US confectioners sugar definitely has a little cornstarch, no idea about UK icing sugar, but I'd bet no practical difference.

[jenh526]

I've looked at a few of the recipes/websites for GBBO and other UK sites (like Jamie Oliver's) and none of them seem to have the US conversions. I know it can be done manually, but why can't they do what Nigella Lawson does on her (fabulous) website and have a button that automatically converts the whole recipe?

[meep.meep]

But the real mystery is: what are fairy cakes?

[ceebee]

But the real mystery is: what are fairy cakes?

Cupcakes!

The American word has taken over somewhere along the line.

[bybrandy]

And fairy floss is cotton candy?   

[ABay]

Thank you for explaining fairy cake! Now, what is a cream cake and how does it differ from other cakes? I've always wondered when reading British mysteries and someone serves a cream cake.

[ceebee]

And fairy floss is cotton candy?

I've never heard of fairy floss. Do you mean candy floss? (That's what we call cotton candy, anyway). Makes my teeth hurt just thinking about it!

[Stinger97]

Fairy floss is the Australian term for cotton candy.

[ceebee]

Thank you for explaining fairy cake! Now, what is a cream cake and how does it differ from other cakes? I've always wondered when reading British mysteries and someone serves a cream cake.

The more I think about it, the less certain I am that I know the answer! What first came to mind was cream filled pastries - eclairs or millefeuille, for example - or a sponge bun filled with whipped cream. I think it might just mean any old cake or pastry filled with whipped cream (??). Perhaps they have to be presented as individual cakes? I associate them with Afternoon Tea.

ETA: this pic says cream cakes to me. That torpedo shaped thing is what I mean by a cream filled bun! http://c8.alamy.com/comp/DX39AA/traditional-afternoon-tea-with-cream-cakes-and-vintage-tea-set-DX39AA.jpg

....and except for the custard tarts, these would all qualify as cream cakes http://www.picturescolourlibrary.co.uk/loreswithlogo/2319208.jpg

Edited September 25, 2015 by ceebee

[ceebee]

Fairy floss is the Australian term for cotton candy.

Aha! Thank you.

[Writing Wrongs]

I learned from watching Two Fat Ladies that American style bacon is called "streaky bacon", which I think is funny. 

 

Beans on toast sound kinda gross to me, breakfast or not.

 

I am so obsessed with British cooking shows. I recently discovered a bunch of Heston Blumenthal videos on YT. Fascinating what he can do with food.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Writing Wrongs

[ABay]

It's a bit of a relief that I'm not the only one confused by cream cake.

[Ceindreadh]

Cupcakes!

The American word has taken over somewhere along the line.

 

Growing up in Ireland, we always called them 'queen cakes', but they were tiny compared to present day cupcakes!

[Rinaldo]

It's a bit of a relief that I'm not the only one confused by cream cake.

I'm another! I keep encountering the term in my Golden Era British mysteries, and I'm never sure what to picture. The faithful housekeeper for the manor (who seems to be a wonderful cook as well) exclaims as the family enjoy their afternoon tea on the lawn, "Leave a cream cake out in the sun? Lor', mum, that'll do it no good at all! Ring when you want it, and I'll bring it out straightaway."

[ParadoxLost]

The more I think about it, the less certain I am that I know the answer! What first came to mind was cream filled pastries - eclairs or millefeuille, for example - or a sponge bun filled with whipped cream. I think it might just mean any old cake or pastry filled with whipped cream (??). Perhaps they have to be presented as individual cakes? I associate them with Afternoon Tea.

ETA: this pic says cream cakes to me. That torpedo shaped thing is what I mean by a cream filled bun! http://c8.alamy.com/comp/DX39AA/traditional-afternoon-tea-with-cream-cakes-and-vintage-tea-set-DX39AA.jpg

....and except for the custard tarts, these would all qualify as cream cakes http://www.picturescolourlibrary.co.uk/loreswithlogo/2319208.jpg

 

Then what are those cakes they sell in US grocery stores that are slightly lighter versions of pound cakes but drowned in glaze/icing?  I thought those were called cream (or crème?) cakes.

Edited September 26, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Bundt cakes?

[ABay]

If I am ever at a seance, I want to summon Agatha Christie and ask her to explain cream cake.

[Rinaldo]

My example was from Robert Barnard (The Skeleton in the Grass), but close enough. (Cluelessness about the cream cake turns out to be a major linchpin in the story, actually.)

[ABay]

I'd summon Robert (Call me Bob) Barnard just for the fun of it. Him and Reginald Hill.