S06.E04: Not Good Enough

[Chicken Wing]

Kailyn is just very inconsiderate of other people. It's like they're not even on her radar.

[truelovekiss]

My theory is that since she was pregnant with Isaac, Kail has spent her time plotting, grifting, finding a mark - I mean man - and pretending to be an "adult." Now that she feels secure with her military benefits, live in babysitter and house, she wants to act like a teenager again. To her, wife, mother, etc. are just labels to check off her list and not roles that require her to actually do anything.

In that respect, she's as bad as Jenelle and Leah. (And you know if she's reading this, her computer monitor was just shaken to death...a moment of silence.) We've discussed at length how little Jenelle and Leah have to do with their kids. Everyone has help with their kids every now and then, and that's good. I think it's healthy for moms of young kids to have a life outside of their kids. But how much time has she been away from them this season? The Sam Smith concert and the Grammies were both overnight events, but when she's home, she's constantly fighting with Javi, going to therapy with Javi, going out to dinner to discuss therapy with Javi. And then there's the times where she flounces off to be with her friends on the weekends. And then Javi's by himself with thr kids for 14 seconds before he calls his mom or Lidia so he can follow Kailyn.

[poopchute]

Kail saying "I don't need a husband" really says it all right there. She doesn't love Javi or give a shit about him, he is just a husband to her, any guy would be fine for her to fit that role, she just wants a husband to help her but doesn't care about the actual husband. That would not be my response if my husband and I were discussing divorce. Have we heard her say "I can't imagine life without him, I love him so much" etc anything like that? Nope.

[Chicken Wing]

No, indeed. And I think that basic point has even come up between them. Javi has made the point more than once that despite the fighting and the hard times, at the end of the day, he still wants to come home to her and their family and that's the bottom line - but she very much gives the vibe, if not flat-out says so, that she can take him or leave him. He needs her, or at least thinks he needs her, but she knows that she doesn't need him.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Chicken Wing

[truelovekiss]

I think for Kailyn, Javi is really just a prop. He's there to smile in pictures and uphold her "I'm a grown up now" image for the show and on social media. She doesn't care about him as a person. I think what initially attracted her to him (if you could say that) was that he was into her, he was younger and inexperienced (I think she also said Jordan hadn't really dated before her either) and she could push him around. He was in such puppy love with him, she could tell him to join the military, marry her and give her a baby. I wonder what Javi's family thinks of her. If they didn't like her before, I'm sure they hate her now.

[lezlers]

I think if it had been planned way in advance, Javi wouldn't have flipped out, but to say, oh, I'm staying an extra three days so figure it out, would make any husband pissed. Especially if you have to drive six hours to pick up your stepson and scramble to find a sitter for your baby so you can go to work on Monday.

 

Shoot, I'd just leave Issac with Jo.  I'm sure Jo wouldn't mind.  It's Kail's responsibility to pick him up, not Javi's.  

[MrsPatrickBateman]

One thing that really confuses me about Kail is how much she cared about being married before being pregnant and how much she talked about that fact and that she was doing it 'the right way' this time. She seems to really care what others think so I'm amazed she doesn't care how it looks that she would so easily throw in the towel and get a divorce. That leaves her with 2 baby daddy's and a failed marriage before 25.

Leah is being judged harshly for her multiple relationships, marriages, divorces and kids. I am really surprised Kail is ok with being on Leah's level.

[ChristmasJones]

Kail is extremely selfish. To me, that is her core problematic personality trait and IMO, all of her actions over the years on this show make sense when viewed with that in mind. She is always looking out for herself, making sure she gets what she wants, and everyone else is secondary to that.

 

I do think she loves her kids, and is nurturing to them, but that doesn't negate the deeper level of selfishness.

[truelovekiss]

Shoot, I'd just leave Issac with Jo. I'm sure Jo wouldn't mind. It's Kail's responsibility to pick him up, not Javi's.

That makes more sense to most logical people. Why not give Isaac an extra day with his dad, instead of his stepdad, (or more likely step aunt/grandma) who would most likely be pissy and complaining about his mother? (Which he has every right to do, since Kail is an evil walrus, but he still shouldn't do it in front of her kids.) Isaac would have been in pre-k at the time, and I highly doubt playing hooky would do any irreparable damage to the kid. But you know Javi would have his ass handed to him, because that would give Jo something he wanted and that is not allowed.

[Abmis]

I finally rewatched the episode and caught something I hasn't noticed the first time.  When Jenelle, Jace, and Barb are going through the sliding doors and Jace accidently calls Barb Mom, when she tells him he can call her whatever he wants she then softly says, "Don't worry."   I really think Barb tries to gloss over the Jace calling her mom thing to protect herself and Jace from the wrath of Jenelle and Nathan.  That poor kid shouldn't have to be worry over such a silly thing.  Barb shouldn't have to worry about it either.  She's the only person in the world who really loves Jace and cares about his wellbeing.  IMHO that entitles her to be called Mom if that's what Jace wants to call her.

 

I felt bad for Addie during the spanking episode.  She seemed so upset but couldn't verbalize her feelings. Much like last weekend when she was getting squished in the tenement on wheels.  That poor kid is so stressed out. She's going to have an ulcer before she's old enough to talk.

[Freckledbruh]

One thing that really confuses me about Kail is how much she cared about being married before being pregnant and how much she talked about that fact and that she was doing it 'the right way' this time. She seems to really care what others think so I'm amazed she doesn't care how it looks that she would so easily throw in the towel and get a divorce. That leaves her with 2 baby daddy's and a failed marriage before 25.

Leah is being judged harshly for her multiple relationships, marriages, divorces and kids. I am really surprised Kail is ok with being on Leah's level.

Kali thinks she has the sympathy game on lock. She will act like it was all Javi's fault and now she is a "single mother" of two (until she feels in the next sucker).

[truelovekiss]

One thing that really confuses me about Kail is how much she cared about being married before being pregnant and how much she talked about that fact and that she was doing it 'the right way' this time. She seems to really care what others think so I'm amazed she doesn't care how it looks that she would so easily throw in the towel and get a divorce. That leaves her with 2 baby daddy's and a failed marriage before 25.

Leah is being judged harshly for her multiple relationships, marriages, divorces and kids. I am really surprised Kail is ok with being on Leah's level.

Remember how she flipped out on Dr. Drew when he cited one of his statistics that like 71.5823% of teen mothers have a child within three years of their first, and she bellowed ISAAC WAS NEARLY FOUR. I DON'T FALL INTO THAT STATISTIC. I WAS MARRIED WHEN LINCOLN WAS CONCEIVED. She's obsessed with proving that she's "above" the teen pregnancy statistics and stereotypes.

[Tatum]

 

since Kail is an evil walrus,

 

Nothing really to add to that, but I might prefer evil walrus to tattooed manatee, although they are both very funny and accurate.

 

Remember how she flipped out on Dr. Drew when he cited one of his statistics that like 71.5823% of teen mothers have a child within three years of their first, and she bellowed ISAAC WAS NEARLY FOUR. I DON'T FALL INTO THAT STATISTIC. I WAS MARRIED WHEN LINCOLN WAS CONCEIVED. She's obsessed with proving that she's "above" the teen pregnancy statistics and stereotypes.

 I noticed that- she's very quick to point out her second son is legitimate.

 

I didn't see the Dr. Drew scene, but I find that hilarious that Kail disputed the teen mom statistic because she waited three and half years instead of a mere three.

 

Reminds me of that scene in Problem Child, where the Bow Tie Killer (played by Kramer before he was famous) realizes his would be partner in crime is not another convicted murderer, but a kid with behavioral problems, and he says, I came all the way out here to hang out with a 7 year old? And Junior answers brightly, well I'll be 8 in 2 weeks!

[truelovekiss]

I felt bad for Addie during the spanking episode. She seemed so upset but couldn't verbalize her feelings. Much like last weekend when she was getting squished in the tenement on wheels. That poor kid is so stressed out. She's going to have an ulcer before she's old enough to talk.

According to Wikipedia, Adalynn wad born Feb 2013, and judging by Corey's March calendar, and Kailyn's Grammy episode next week, it's probably about Feb-Mar 2015, so Addy should be about 2. I'm really not good with this sort of thing, but has anyone felt that she isn't really speaking very well for being 2? She doesn't get very much screen time, but she just seems so much younger to me. I'm not saying I think there's anything seriously wrong, but I really doubt that Adalynn has been receiving much attention from her mother. I'm sure most of the language she has is learned from copying her sissies.

[TaxNerd]

I hate to nitpick, but Kail conceived before she was married. If you haven't seen the famous pictures of her in her wedding dress in front of the shark tank, then please, treat yourself:

http://m.eonline.com/news/462916/teen-mom-2-s-kailyn-lowry-shows-off-baby-bump-in-her-wedding-dress-see-the-pics

Edited August 7, 2015 by TaxNerd

[ChristmasJones]

How old is Isaac now? Four or five?

[Tatum]

I believe Kail, like Leah, married at a courthouse and then had a bigger wedding later.

[truelovekiss]

Nothing really to add to that, but I might prefer evil walrus to tattooed manatee, although they are both very funny and accurate.

I noticed that- she's very quick to point out her second son is legitimate.

I didn't see the Dr. Drew scene, but I find that hilarious that Kail disputed the teen mom statistic because she waited three and half years instead of a mere three.

!

I chose walrus to shake it up a little. Plus, they have those funny mustaches and tusks.

I think her argument was that Drew said WITHIN 3 years, which I think she took to mean 3 years or less, therefore since her boys were like 3 years and 9/10 months apart (I swear I didn't actually know that offhand, I googled it) it does not fall within that 3 year boundary. Which she is correct about. That being said, she was still 21 with 2 kids to 2 different daddies. Good luck dancing your way out of that one, Kailyn.

How old is Isaac now? Four or five?

He was born like Jan-Feb 2010, so he's 5 now and I think he should be going into kindergarten in the fall.

[Abmis]

I didn't realize that Addie is that old.  That makes the situation even sadder.

[ChristmasJones]

I chose walrus to shake it up a little. Plus, they have those funny mustaches and tusks.

I think her argument was that Drew said WITHIN 3 years, which I think she took to mean 3 years or less, therefore since her boys were like 3 years and 9/10 months apart (I swear I didn't actually know that offhand, I googled it) it does not fall within that 3 year boundary. Which she is correct about. That being said, she was still 21 with 2 kids to 2 different daddies. Good luck dancing your way out of that one, Kailyn.

He was born like Jan-Feb 2010, so he's 5 now and I think he should be going into kindergarten in the fall.

 

ok, so Jo only has 13 more years.... the year 2028 will be a good one for him.

[fliptopbox]

I didn't realize that Addie is that old.  That makes the situation even sadder.

Me either. Yikes. Almost every 2yr old I have come into contact with is a lot more verbal than Addie. She also seems physically delayed too, but maybe we just see limited shots of her. Plus with the 'no clothes except a diaper' thing I think it makes her seem younger since Leah can't even be bothered to dress her properly. The other 2 girlses would be considered indecent if not dressed and being filmed, but I don't think Addie is at that point yet. I dunno when baby nudity turns into child nudity and then considered creepy to film.

[truelovekiss]

I didn't realize that Addie is that old. That makes the situation even sadder.

Her hair hasn't really come in, which really just makes her look much younger. My sister was the same way, plus she was pretty small. So when people heard her talking like a typical 2 year old, even though she barely looked 18 months, they were pretty impressed :) unfortunately for baby Addy, she doesn't really seem to be progressing very well. In my entirely unprofessional, 23 year old with no babies opinion, it's a combination of a fast food/lunchables/corn syrup juice diet, irregular sleep schedule (I don't remember seeing her eating ravioli at midnight with the senior girlses, but something tells me she isn't being put to bed in her crib at 8 every night), limited social interactions from her parents and being ignored in favor of her wild older sisters.

[Chicken Wing]

I hate to nitpick, but Kail conceived before she was married. If you haven't seen the famous pictures of her in her wedding dress in front of the shark tank, then please, treat yourself:

 

 

 

I believe Kail, like Leah, married at a courthouse and then had a bigger wedding later.

 

Correct. Kail and Javi were legally married at city hall in September 2012. They had the tacky-ass aquarium wedding for family and friends the following September, and Lincoln was born two months later.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Chicken Wing

[FlowerofCarnage]

Nothing really to add to that, but I might prefer evil walrus to tattooed manatee, although they are both very funny and accurate.

I noticed that- she's very quick to point out her second son is legitimate.

I didn't see the Dr. Drew scene, but I find that hilarious that Kail disputed the teen mom statistic because she waited three and half years instead of a mere three.

Reminds me of that scene in Problem Child, where the Bow Tie Killer (played by Kramer before he was famous) realizes his would be partner in crime is not another convicted murderer, but a kid with behavioral problems, and he says, I came all the way out here to hang out with a 7 year old? And Junior answers brightly, well I'll be 8 in 2 weeks!

I think Tundra Wookie (Thanks to the lovely poster who came up with that one) is a far better description of Kail. Lol

[truelovekiss]

http://starcasm.net/archives/135304I'd like to add this

Correct. Kail and Javi were legally married at city hall in September 2012. They had the tacky-ass aquarium wedding for family and friends the following September, and Lincoln was born two months later.

Kail and Javi were "official" as of Jan 2012, and got married 8 months later. In Sept 2012 she would have been 20 at the time, and Javi would have been 19. So that doesn't exactly scream "I thought long and hard about this decision" to me.

Eta sorry the format is all messed up here, I'm on my phone and I was having a hard time pasting.

Edited August 5, 2015 by truelovekiss

[truelovekiss]

Correct. Kail and Javi were legally married at city hall in September 2012. They had the tacky-ass aquarium wedding for family and friends the following September, and Lincoln was born two months later.

I'd like to believe they had the creatures from the deep themed wedding just for me, but even I'm not that self absorbed.

[guilfoyleatpp]

There would be HELL TO PAY if my husband went away on an overnight and sent me a TEXT saying that he would be gone for another 3 days. To go on his friend's family vacation.  I'd suspect he was on drugs or having a mental break or something. And be incredibly hurt that his friend's family vacation took precedence over being with me and his CHILD. 

 

WTF. And this is definitely not something your average teen mom (or early 20's mom) of two could do. Who will watch your children? Take your preschooler to school?  The presumption in that text. She doesn't see him as a partner. I knew that already, but omg. 

[fliptopbox]

I'd like to believe they had the creatures from the deep themed wedding just for me, but even I'm not that self absorbed.

I don't remember if that particular aquarium has manatees (or even a walrus or 2), but it would have been amazing to get a shot of her in all her wedding glory *snerk* with a sea mammal in the background. Hehehehe.

 

Yeah, I'm mean. But it'd be photo gold.

Edited August 5, 2015 by fliptopbox

[zenme]

She looks a lot the the Montauk Monster to me, although the Montauk Monster seems like he can be reasoned with.

[TaxNerd]

Correct. Kail and Javi were legally married at city hall in September 2012. They had the tacky-ass aquarium wedding for family and friends the following September, and Lincoln was born two months later.

Thanks! I can't believe if they waited a year, they didn't just wait another three months.

[zenme]

Thanks! I can't believe if they waited a year, they didn't just wait another three months

 

I wonder if she wanted it to coincide with filming.

[fliptopbox]

I wonder if she wanted it to coincide with filming.

I'm sure, because I guarantee she wanted MTV to foot the bill, so she could have her dream wedding for free...and possibly made into its own TM2 special. I'm not sure if they did, to be honest. If not I'll bet she's still salty about it.

 

Dammit, my computer has this annoying habit of deleting the last word I type for some reason...which accounts for all the edits. It's like it has tourettes!

Edited August 5, 2015 by fliptopbox

[NikSac]

Thanks! I can't believe if they waited a year, they didn't just wait another three months.

 

I'm flashing back to her dress fitting where she wanted to make sure it was 100% clear she was pregnant at the "big wedding."  She actually had them alter the dress to further emphasize her pregnancy.  I thought it was weird and that most people would want to wait so they weren't hugely pregnant at the wedding, especially since they had already waited so long.

[BitterApple]

I'm flashing back to her dress fitting where she wanted to make sure it was 100% clear she was pregnant at the "big wedding." She actually had them alter the dress to further emphasize her pregnancy. I thought it was weird and that most people would want to wait so they weren't hugely pregnant at the wedding, especially since they had already waited so long.

Not mention they were already legally married, so there was really no rush if Kail was concerned about Lincoln being born in wedlock.

[cheatincheetos]

Loved the soundtrack lyrics for this episode. For Leah's scene walking into restaurant: "...What the hell happened last night/ Lie to make yourself feel all right"

[Mkay]

Not mention they were already legally married, so there was really no rush if Kail was concerned about Lincoln being born in wedlock.

But then MTV probably wouldn't pay for it.  I've read as long as it's aired it's usually paid for.  That's why we always see them all go out to eat a lot to "talk" to friends/family. Free Food!

[poopchute]

I believe Kail, like Leah, married at a courthouse and then had a bigger wedding later.

 

A fake wedding!  I think it's insane when people who are already legally married have another party where friends and family have to watch them go through fake vows and all that crap.  If you want to have a small wedding or a private ceremony and then have a big party later, that's cool, but I think the big white dress and the cake cutting and the vows is too much.  You can't get married when you are already married.  I would be annoyed as a guest if I had to sit through fake vows and pretend "you are now husband and wife" when they are already husband and wife.  Did their guests know they were already married?

Edited August 6, 2015 by poopchute

[Freckledbruh]

 

Did their guests know they were already married?

Yes.  Also, not only did the guests have to sit through a fake wedding but watch a large sea creature who was 8 months pregnant lumber down the aisle.

 

PS:  She had a BRIDAL SHOWER too! (for the 2nd fake wedding)

[Tatum]

A fake wedding!  I think it's insane when people who are already legally married have another party where friends and family have to watch them go through fake vows and all that crap.  If you want to have a small wedding or a private ceremony and then have a big party later, that's cool, but I think the big white dress and the cake cutting and the vows is too much.  You can't get married when you are already married.  I would be annoyed as a guest if I had to sit through fake vows and pretend "you are now husband and wife" when they are already husband and wife.  Did their guests know they were already married?

 

I totally agree! I've had a couple family members do this and it drives me insane. In both cases, the husband was military and was either facing deployment or the wife needed benefits so they married in a courthouse. Now, I totally get wanting to have a reception later which I think is totally cool, but in both cases, they had an actual ceremony where the brides wore a fancy white dress, they had a full wedding party, they said vows (both were religious ceremonies in a church), etc- I found the whole thing ridiculous. It just smacks of, I still want MY day, even though I've been married for an entire year. What further pissed me off in the cases of both is that neither couple had any intention of telling people they were already married, but in both cases, it leaked out.

 

 

Yes.  Also, not only did the guests have to sit through a fake wedding but watch a large sea creature who was 8 months pregnant lumber down the aisle.

 

Well, in her defense, at least she was honest about it. Although I guess she figured 1. it would get out anyways, and 2. people would think she was getting married just because she was pregnant and we all know how she feels about that. Love the image of a lumbering sea creature by the way. Can just picture one of Javi's relatives hollering- release the Kracken!

[ghoulina]

According to Wikipedia, Adalynn wad born Feb 2013, and judging by Corey's March calendar, and Kailyn's Grammy episode next week, it's probably about Feb-Mar 2015, so Addy should be about 2. I'm really not good with this sort of thing, but has anyone felt that she isn't really speaking very well for being 2? She doesn't get very much screen time, but she just seems so much younger to me. I'm not saying I think there's anything seriously wrong, but I really doubt that Adalynn has been receiving much attention from her mother. I'm sure most of the language she has is learned from copying her sissies.

 

Eh, personally I feel that's a bit too young to be worried about speech issues. All kids are different. My oldest was only speaking 4 words on his 2nd birthday. But about a month later he just took off. He is now 7 and reading at a 4th grade level and wows people with his vocabulary. My youngest was a delayed speaker as well, and she's still kind of delayed. We had her evaluated a few months back (she's almost 4 now) and were told she is on the low end of normal. I'm using her as an example because having two talkative older brothers didn't help any. In fact, our pediatrician said it's often the opposite. The baby of the family might feel too intimidated by the all the older ones running around and talking a bunch, and they might be late walkers AND talkers. Which was the case with mine. 

 

Addy does seem younger than 2 to me, but I think that's mostly because of her unfortunate hair. 

[WhosThatGirl]

It just smacks of, I still want MY day, even though I've been married for an entire year.

And like someone said earlier, she wanted it to be on the show... I think the fact that she scheduled it with a day of shooting is something as well. I would have had no problem if they had wanted a party/reception, thats fine, but like someone said not only did they have a wedding, they had a wedding show- and I think Javi had a bachelor thing of some sort, unless I'm having a fever dream of that, I don't know..It just feels like they did a lot of pre wedding stuff that didn't need to happen because they had been married for some time.

 

Its crazy how paranoid Leah is. Like, her first thought when Corey asks for more time is that he wants her to look bad and he is ought to get her. She has repeatedly said this. That's where her mind always goes when she is telling Jeremy about it. The problem with Leah-and I think we've discussed here at lengths about it- is that she is, for the most part, surrounded by enablers. And I mean, most of the people she's around- or at least from the show- are her family, so I mean, it would be hard pressed to find someone to tell her the truth. 

[Mkay]

Yes.  Also, not only did the guests have to sit through a fake wedding but watch a large sea creature who was 8 months pregnant lumber down the aisle.

 

PS:  She had a BRIDAL SHOWER too! (for the 2nd fake wedding)

And a bachelorette party.  While pregnant. (while trying to hide she was pregnant) With fake penis's on her head. http://starcasm.net/archives/238831

Edited August 7, 2015 by Mkay

[DoctorWhovian]

My cousin technically had 3 weddings. First, they were both starting new jobs (had been engaged and wedding dates set already) and for insurance purposes, they had a court house wedding. Second, his wife is from India, and her grandparents live there, and are too old to travel. They wanted her to have a traditional, Indian wedding and so they paid for the whole celebration. This was in December, some of my family went. Then, they had a wedding in the city where he's from/where they met, so friends and family that could not afford to go to India (plus people like my grandmother who just couldn't feasibly go to India). We joke that he has three anniversaries to remember. Everyone at the third wedding knew about the India one (maybe about the first, I know that our whole family knew), and no one cared. We get why they did it. I could foresee having at least a reception/party/whatever later on if, when I get married, it happens somewhere where family/friends can't be there.

 

And Kail going off for the weekend is one thing. My mom definitely had "girl" weekends, and our dad watched us (correction: he is our father, he didn't watch us, he was our parent and he parented). Or he left for the weekend (or longer -- he went on 17 day fishing trips once a year, every year) and mom stayed home. Or, they both left for a weekend, or even a week, and we stayed with grandma. Going away is fine if the two parents communicate. What is bullshit is the extension in the  middle of the trip. 

[zenme]

And Kail going off for the weekend is one thing. My mom definitely had "girl" weekends, and our dad watched us (correction: he is our father, he didn't watch us, he was our parent and he parented). Or he left for the weekend (or longer -- he went on 17 day fishing trips once a year, every year) and mom stayed home. Or, they both left for a weekend, or even a week, and we stayed with grandma. Going away is fine if the two parents communicate. What is bullshit is the extension in the  middle of the trip.

 

Yeah, it was like there had been zero communication about the trip.  I also found this strange: Yes.  I think it's great for couples to take trips away from the kids, if possible, and sometimes with friends.  Most women I know, including myself have a sense of guilt--even if the trip is much needed.  Even if the kids stay with trusted family or friends, there is always SOME feeling of guilt--or the need to really make sure everyone is okay and happy before they leave.  I didn't get that sense from Kailyn.  Maybe they didn't show it.  I couldn't tell. 

[Scorpiosunshine]

The only chance either of them has is via their fathers.

 

I think Jo is an awsome father to have been a teen when things went down.  He honestly wants the best for his son and will do what's in his power to be there for him.  What I found interesting about Jo was his lovey dovey interest in Lincoln (who is so adorable and kind of demands that reaction).  I could see Jo honestly spending time with BOTH boys, since they are brothers so that Issac will never feel that he has to choose one family over the other.  Issac has Jo and that is alot.  Kail is loving, she just needs therapy to overcome her childhood.  That being said, I am shocked to see I am the only one who doesn't like Javi.[\b]

You're not ! I cannot stand him. He's no victim + he has major issues. Javi doesn't have me fooled at all.

At first , he seemed like a decent guy, and I thought he might be good for Kail. As much as she's getting on my nerves right now, Javi is much worse, and she needs to get away from him. His control issues and passive-aggressive behaviors are scary.

[toodywoody]

Watching this again and I feel bad for the girlses. Poor Baldie knew her sister was getting in trouble and poor Gracie getting spanked. I feel for Leah and have lost my shit too and spanked my daughter. But if the girls just got back from Coreys house, why is she such a mess. Baldie doesn't seem like that bad of a kid and she has her friend there with her, so while she may be overwhelmed she isn't accepting the help. But like it has been discussed you can't tell an addict anything