S02.E05: Other Lives

[Cardie]

Elaborate please, if you would.

 

It's established that Ani is sexually adventurous, apparently freaking out her deputy sheriff hookup. We also see her very much absorbed in watching porn. So I would imagine having access to a super-exclusive, super-perverse sex party would be right up her alley, so to speak.

 

Paul's money has to be illegally obtained or he would indeed have put it I the bank. Deposits of that much cash will trigger a notification of authorities so he probably avoided banks for that reason.

 

Do those of you who think Ray's wife may not be Chad's biological mother imagine a hospital switch or something? I seriously doubt she could fake a pregnancy. You know Ray would have been in the delivery room.

[Hobo.PassingThru]

 

Each character is going to play some role, unbeknownst to them, in the crime.

That makes sense. There are still people who are possibly being murdered (like, the guy who got died in the drunk driving "accident") and of course there is what ever occurred on that commune in addition to the sex clubs. Given how many characters there are and how many drift in and out it is quite likely that the real mystery is how it all started and how bad and convoluted the situation is.

[MrWhyt]

Is there anyone on the planet that thinks Ani is just going to walk into an escort party, get information. and walk back out unscathed?

I think there is a very good chance she's going to have a reason to knife some one.

[magdalene]

This episode was giving me a strong LA Confidential vibe.  With CF being Bud White. I want it to be revealed in the paternity test that the kid is Ray's biological son. To have one thing go his way.  And I for one will miss the mustache o'doom. It added something to his character.

 

There are a few images of Paul in the credits that ping serial killer! to me.   Probably means nothing and I am just being fanciful.

[NurseGiGi]

I think I probably would have enjoyed this episode if they had completely done away with any scenes involving Frank and his wife.  I start to get interested and then Boom! they start their droning and it just destroys the momentum.  I guess from now on I'll just have to FF through their scenes to make the last three episodes bearable for me.

[shapeshifter]

...Do those of you who think Ray's wife may not be Chad's biological mother imagine a hospital switch or something? I seriously doubt she could fake a pregnancy. You know Ray would have been in the delivery room.

Which is also why I've been disregarding the Ray's-wife-is-not-Chad's-mother theory. But it just occurred to me that maybe it was a switched-at-birth scenario, and that's why Chad doesn't look like either of them, and maybe there's another kid in town who actually does look like Ray.

ETA: And if NP wants to go totally over to Soap Opera Plotland, Chad could be the son of Frank and someone--but not Jordan, unless she gave away a baby at some point--which could have happened--in Soap Opera Land.

Edited July 20, 2015 by shapeshifter

[Hobo.PassingThru]

 

Do those of you who think Ray's wife may not be Chad's biological mother imagine a hospital switch or something?

heh. I guess that would be the most likely situation. But, to what benefit for the story? Most of the "children of..." in the show are adults. Chad is the only kid. So, it  is probably unlikely they'd have a switch situation unless another character supposedly had a kid around the same time, say, the mayor's wife (the woman who was  said to be institutionalized in the last episode).

 

But, that idea of parents comes up again. And, maybe this is another thing which separates Frank and Jordan too much from the other three characters. The three detectives have all had interactions with their (now single) parents). Ray's dad was an active cop in Vinci and probably knows of stuff from way back; Ani's dad was involved with some aspect of this, somehow; and, who knows if Paul's mom has some involvement at least tangentially with the sex ring.

 

maybe there's another kid in town who actually does look like Ray.

And it would be hilarious if that ten year-old had Ray's mustache.

[and absurd as that is, I could see David Lynch doing it]

Edited July 20, 2015 by Hobo.PassingThru

[shapeshifter]

And it would be hilarious if that ten year-old had Ray's mustache.

Hee! Maybe they can have a Halloween episode in which he dresses as a Super Mario Brother and trick-or-treats at Ray's door. Good thing there's only 3 eps left.

And I do miss Ray's stache.

[damalanop]

...Ray's ex-wife - why is she insisting on a paternity test NOW?  She must hate Chad, if she thinks he'll be better off knowing he's the son of a serial rapist, rather than the cop who loves him...

 

 

 

This is what I couldn't understand either.  She either hates Ray or hasn't thought of what knowing that his father might be a serial rapist would do to Chad.  Ray definitely isn't perfect as a man or father, but worlds better than a serial rapist!!!

[paigow]

And I do miss Ray's stache.

Miami Vice was enough facial hair to outlast a flat circle...good riddance

[Cindylou]

all I remember about the killer is he had nice shoes, that were square tipped.

 

I LOVED this episode.  I thought it was wonderful and wish more would have been like this,  can't wait until Sunday!

[shapeshifter]

They've got the real rapist in lockup now, right? But we don't know who he is, do we? Or did they tell Ray his name? Could he be Bird Man?

all I remember about the killer is he had nice shoes, that were square tipped.

I could never have seen shoe style on my devices. Or did they zoom way in on them and I missed it? Edited July 21, 2015 by shapeshifter

[Jextella]

Maystone, I agree with you about Jordan's abortions, and mostly because of the movie Ray's dad was watching when he went to visit him. It was "Detective Story" starring Kirk Douglas as a cop who hunts down an abortion doctor only to find out that his own wife had had an abortion (this was 1951): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043465/

I think that was a little Easter egg for the audience...it also plays in nicely with the idea of karma this season. Each character is going to play some role, unbeknownst to them, in the crime. It's just taking a while to get there, and the fun is in figuring out how they all took part. For example, I think the man Ray killed, who he thought was his ex-wife's rapist, might have had something to do with setting the wheels in motion. Surely Eliot Bezzerides is involved, so that covers Ani. Frank may have involvement in his own demise via Jordan and whatever she's been up to.

That is one helluva 'n observation about "Detective Story"!  So good!

 

Honestly, for Ray to be so damned concerned about a paternity test has to mean something, right?  Why should it matter?  It's his behavior that will make him loose access to the kid - not DNA.  I mean for the viewers, it certainly raises questions of doubt.   I still think his ex isn't the mother (Jordan could be) which is one reason he doesn't want to delve into paternity issues - which could lead to maternity issues.  Too many oddball things going on regarding kids and rape between Frank and Ray. 

 

Unrelated...but I think Cisco Kid is the killer (today, anyway!), but was working on assignment from some higher up.

 

Other things that I hope are resolved -

• why Ray uses a recorder to connect with the kid (when really it's just him delivering endless monlogues) rather than internet and cell phone; I think he'll end up recording something meaningful to the case (or his or Frank's death....I think one or both die)
• the reporter's involvement (he and Ray may be working together to take Frank down)
• Paul - as of yet, Paul's story is not connected to the case, right?  He's the only one.  Seems odd.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Jextella

[Penman61]

Honestly, for Ray to be so damn concerned about a paternity test has to mean something, right? I mean for the viewers, it certainly raises questions of doubt.  Too many oddball things going on regarding kids and rape between Frank and Ray. 

 

It means this:  Ray is afraid that if he's shown not to be Chad's biological father that he'll lose all paternity rights.  Ray loves Chad mightily, so he is afraid of losing him.  Does it need to mean anything else?

[Pippin]

Re Chad being a switched baby.

 

It doesn't necessarily have to be a conspiracy; it could be a simple screw-up.  It does happen, in real life as well as fiction. 

It could serve as a distraction for Ray, and affect the case that way.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Jordan's operations were absolutely abortions.

Maybe the confusion isn't just the word choice ("operation" instead of "abortion" or even "procedure") but the fact that abortions from a medical professional, even three of them, would be very unlikely to lead to infertility. (But as other have noticed, female characters on TV are always punished for abortions somehow.)

I like the idea of Chad somehow being Jordan's son. However, is that something we'd even find out from a paternity test in the real world? Don't paternity tests just compare the alleged dad's DNA to the child? Is there any comparison of the mom's DNA in a standard paternity test? Granted, I may not know that much about paternity testing, but I don't think paternity tests will show who the mother is, just the father.

Rachel McAdams kicks ass. Please let her only take on roles like this from now on.

I had forgotten how freakin' HOT Colin Farrell is until this episode (sans mustache & "drug sweats").

Also, I find Ray's ex's huge nostrils really distracting.

Paul's mom, a former show girl, has problems with gays? I'd think given her line of work - in entertainment and in a business that requires the services of hairdressers, makeup artists, choreographers, etc - she'd surely made friends with and come to like several gay men and hence be okay with her son's sexuality (even with her Clint Eastwood fetish). But no, she's a homophobe? Okay then.

Paul, the idea of having your future mother in law stay with you after the baby is born may sound like a nightmare but let me say, you will need all the help you can get in those first few days and weeks, even if she just keeps your apartment clean and cooks. I didn't want my MIL with us post-delivery when I was pregnant. Then I had my baby and holy cow, I realized even if Satan himself offers to come help with a baby, you take that help. Take any help you can get. But yeah, you may just wanna save everyone some time and future heartache and tell girlfriend you're gay, move in with your hookup buddy, and share custody of the kid.

Edited July 21, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Penman61]

Paul's mom, a former show girl, has problems with gays? I'd think given her line of work - in entertainment and in a business that requires the services of hairdressers, makeup artists, choreographers, etc - she'd surely made friends with and come to like several gay men and hence be okay with her son's sexuality (even with her Clint Eastwood fetish)? Okay then.

YES!  I thought the same thing.  She's how old, 45, 50?  Which means her peak showgirling was...in the 1990s, folks, not the 1950s or 60s.

 

Just exhibit #312 in the case of how retrograde Paul's closet story is.

 

ETA:  Just to be clear: Of course someone can work with a group and still despise that group.  Add in to the mix Paul's mom's weird non-boundaries with her son and spotty history with men, and yes, she could credibly fling some homophobia at Paul.  But I think it's a stretch.  YMMV.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Penman61

[kieyra]

all I remember about the killer is he had nice shoes, that were square tipped.

 

I LOVED this episode.  I thought it was wonderful and wish more would have been like this,  can't wait until Sunday!

 

I'd just like to point out that James Frain wears shoes just like that in True Blood. Coincidence? I think not. 

 

(This has been my weekly post where I have nothing to contribute except 'blah blah blah James Frain and his stupid American accent'.)

[paigow]

They've got the real rapist in lockup now, right? But we don't know who he is, do we? 

Correct. Rapist was not named to Velcoro (or the audience). This exonerates Blake and other members of Frank's crew. Bird Man "does not fit the profile" of a serial rapist. He spends too much time staging corpses and stalking Velcoro.

Edited July 21, 2015 by paigow

[Lemons]

I have to watch each episode three times to understand the plot. The same thing for last night's Ray Donovan (who was stabbed and why?) When plots are not clear, I am so lost and just watch for major developments and ignore the subplots. 

 

 

AAHHHH!  I haven't watched Ray Donovan yet!   I have to watch most episodes twice to understand.  But that's me with all shows like this.  I can't remember names, everyone looks alike, can't remember who's the good guy, etc.  I do like when I watch the second time and finally get it though. 

[WatchrTina]

 

...Ray's ex-wife - why is she insisting on a paternity test NOW?  She must hate Chad, if she thinks he'll be better off knowing he's the son of a serial rapist, rather than the cop who loves him...

 

This is what I couldn't understand either.  She either hates Ray or hasn't thought of what knowing that his father might be a serial rapist would do to Chad.  Ray definitely isn't perfect as a man or father, but worlds better than a serial rapist!!!

 

My take was that Ray told her that he killed the guy who raped her, thinking it would make her feel better.  Or at the very least he told her "He's dead" and let her draw her own conclusions.  But instead of it helping to heal the marriage it drove a wedge between them -- especially when Ray changed afterward (the result of being dragged into corrupt policing by VV's character.)  And now she finds out that it wasn't true.  She has to assume he lied to her and be totally confused.  All this time she thought he changed because of the murder and she felt guilty because he did it for her.  Now she finds out (she thinks) that he made it all up.  I totally get why she hates him.

 

I have to say I was about ready to give up on this show but when they got the three cops back together again it started to get interesting.  And the look between CF and VV in that last scene -- we that was worth the price of admission.

 

FWIW I don't think VV had anything to do with the rape.  I think he just sent CF after a scapegoat so that he could get his hooks into a cop.

Edited July 21, 2015 by WatchrTina

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I want Ani & Ray to hook up.

I had to see a lot of naked women on this show last season. I'd appreciate some nude full frontal Colin Farrell (as I know he's not opposed to it since he's done it before in the film "Tigerland" .....and because it's HBO...us straight chicks who watch this network need an occasional reward for all of the gratuitous scenes of bare breasted women we sit through during HBO's original programming).

Edited July 21, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Quilt Fairy]

Although I figured that the 'operation' mentioned in the first ep was really an abortion, I always assumed that Jordan used that word specifically so that Frank would not know she had an abortion. Now that things are coming down to brass tacks (and she is so fucking pissed at Frank), appearances don't matter as much.

 

"Girth you can get a handcuff on" - must find a way to use that in a conversation.

[Cindylou]

They've got the real rapist in lockup now, right? But we don't know who he is, do we? Or did they tell Ray his name? Could he be Bird Man?

I could never have seen shoe style on my devices. Or did they zoom way in on them and I missed it?

They didn't zoom in on it, I just tried to notice anything I could when we actually saw someone moving the body in episode 1. and I've been looking for those dang shoes ever sense!  James Frain is a good guess, my very first guess was the 2nd in command to VV and I was thinking missing girl was waitress at the worlds saddest bar.

[terrymct]

Why didn't he just put that money in a safety deposit box at the bank?  It's not like he just found out his mother was a lunatic and could not be trusted to not find and spend  his $20,000.   He owes her for carrying him to term and raising him?   Nice....

 

 

Or just keep it at his own darn apartment.   Or bury it down a gopher hole.  It would have been safer.

[Milburn Stone]

The diamonds may be Frank's money. McAndless, the Catalyst guy that dangled five "plots" in front of Frank's nose very likely gave them to Caspere in return for Frank's money, something he could launder unlike Caspere, who got something physically small and portable that can be stashed in a safe deposit box. Teague Dixon was probably the mayor's Velcoro, looked for the diamonds because Caspere was dealing on the side with McAndless, and wanted his cut. (Dixon was probably photographing Woodrugh looking for dirt to compromise the state investigation. I suppose we are to assume Miguel is somehow included.) Appetite whetted, Caspere threatened some body with tapes. McAndless probably sent his Vinci PD man (by law of casting, James Frain) to get them from Caspere. Instead of talking, Caspere dies, Birdman/Frain? drives around looking at Caspere's sites. He finds the hard drive, but withholds from McAndless.

 

Here's the problem I'm having with this season. I not only can't comprehend the plot as I watch the show. I can't comprehend a synopsis of the plot, even when it's as clearly written as yours, sjohnson! It doesn't matter how many times I read that paragraph, I can't follow it. (Understand, I'm giving you all the credit in the world for laying it out as clearly as anyone could. It's still not clear to me.)

 

Bless all of you who are able to follow all the lines of the story. (And I know there are more than a handful of you.) I wish I could be one of you!

 

That said, I began to grasp about 5% more this episode (bringing me all the way up to a stunning 10%), and for some damn reason I'm still finding it intriguing. And, of course, continuing to love Colin and Rachel and Taylor (and even Vince; there, I've said it).

[teddysmom]

..Ray's ex-wife - why is she insisting on a paternity test NOW?

 

She has way more leverage in a custody battle if Ray isn't Chad's father.  His attorney would argue that no one knew Chad wasn't Ray's for sure, and Ray did raise Chad as his son, so he does have some right to custody and visitation, if he can prove his violent streak and drug use is under control. 

[SFoster21]

Although I figured that the 'operation' mentioned in the first ep was really an abortion, I always assumed that Jordan used that word specifically so that Frank would not know she had an abortion. Now that things are coming down to brass tacks (and she is so fucking pissed at Frank), appearances don't matter as much.

"Girth you can get a handcuff on" - must find a way to use that in a conversation.

"Girth you CAN'T get a handcuff on."

[teddysmom]

Here's the problem I'm having with this season. I not only can't comprehend the plot as I watch the show. I can't comprehend a synopsis of the plot, even when it's as clearly written as yours, sjohnson! It doesn't matter how many times I read that paragraph, I can't follow it. (Understand, I'm giving you all the credit in the world for laying it out as clearly as anyone could. It's still not clear to me.)

 

I wasn't sure about how the diamonds figure into all this, but I have found that watching it on Sunday night, and then rewatching it Monday or Tuesday helps clear things up.  It's a lot of plot to try to sort through in 55 minutes on a Sunday night.  Rewatching when I can rewind and listen to dialogue more carefully helps a lot. how 

 

For instance, I didn't catch everything Rick Springfield said during his beat down on Sunday.  Then last night I watched and caught the fact that Chesani's wife was apparently being forced to have some type of weird sex with his father, and that led to her mental breakdown.  

 

I used to have to do this even with shows like Breaking Bad, which was pretty straight forward.   I'm looking forward to this season being over so I can binge watch all eight episodes at once.   I did that a couple weeks ago with Season 1 and it was really easy to follow when you don't have a week between episodes and stuff is fresh in your mind.  

[shapeshifter]

"Girth you CAN'T get a handcuff on."

Right. Could that ever be true? Assuming no, the guys in the room would know that. Would they think it was a joke? Or that they were not as well endowed as they thought they were? Or would they just chalk it up to more of her being a "dumb broad"?

[Milburn Stone]

For instance, I didn't catch everything Rick Springfield said during his beat down on Sunday.  Then last night I watched and caught the fact that Chesani's wife was apparently being forced to have some type of weird sex with his father, and that led to her mental breakdown.  

 

Good advice about rewatching, teddysmom. But re the above (and here you will see the extent of my non-comprehension exposed), Chesani is the mayor who lives in the Bel Air estate, right? If so, I thought we met his wife (the one who greeted Ray, or was it Ani)--the one who looks like a drugged-out ex-hooker or something. She didn't look like she'd had a mental breakdown. Or was that not his wife? There was a wife before her, who had a mental breakdown?

[SFoster21]

Good advice about rewatching, teddysmom. But re the above (and here you will see the extent of my non-comprehension exposed), Chesani is the mayor who lives in the Bel Air estate, right? If so, I thought we met his wife (the one who greeted Ray, or was it Ani)--the one who looks like a drugged-out ex-hooker or something. She didn't look like she'd had a mental breakdown. Or was that not his wife? There was a wife before her, who had a mental breakdown?

Yes. The mother of the grown son and daughter.

[teddysmom]

If so, I thought we met his wife (the one who greeted Ray, or was it Ani)--the one who looks like a drugged-out ex-hooker or something. She didn't look like she'd had a mental breakdown. Or was that not his wife? There was a wife before her, who had a mental breakdown?

 

We met his second wife. His first wife,mother of the two adult kids, hung herself at Rick Springfield's Plastic Surgery/Mental Health Day Spa. 

 

Remember in the previous episode, Ani and Ray were staking out Chesani's Bel Air mansion, and they see the daughter drive away. They followed her to the hookah bar and Ani spoke with her about her mother. She told Ani her mother started exhibiting signs of schizophrenia, which I imagine could happen if you're being forced to have sex with your father in law.  Chesani had her committed at Pitler's facility. God only knows what kept happening to her there, but she hung herself. 

Right. Could that ever be true? Assuming no, the guys in the room would know that. Would they think it was a joke? Or that they were not as well endowed as they thought they were? Or would they just chalk it up to more of her being a "dumb broad"?

 

I think she was just fucking with them.   I've never encountered anything like that in my travels, but maybe with Ani's predilection for hard core porn, she may have come across it. 

[Milburn Stone]

Thanks, teddysmom (and SFoster21). I must have been distracted while watching that. Yeah, that's the ticket.

[grannygeek]

"maybe with Ani's predilection for hard core porn,"

Does she have a predilection for porn? I thought that she was looking for evidence. Did I misunderstand? Or was she looking for evidence and liking it?

[Constantinople]

Maybe by the time this season is over we'll understand why Stan is so f*cking important to Frank. Sixty-six days later and he still can't get over Stan, who for all intents and purposes was "Henchman #1" on the casting sheet for one episode.

 

Which sums up why, with only 3 episodes left, I doubt we'll get a satisfying resolution to all of the various storylines.  I hope I'm wrong, but I feel as if the ending will be rushed.

 

At this point, I'm just along for the ride.  I don't even much care who killed Caspere.  I'm even willing to have it stay pinned on the Mexicans provided I get some reasonably interesting scenes involving Ray, Ani, and Paul, and provided Frank & Jordan fall off the face of the earth.

[teddysmom]

Does she have a predilection for porn? I thought that she was looking for evidence. Did I misunderstand? Or was she looking for evidence and liking it?

 

I thought the point was that she was watching it a little more than just looking for evidence, from the camera lingering on that one scene she was watching online,and that she ended the call with her partner really quickly to go back to watching.  I could be wrong. 

[Quilt Fairy]

"Girth you CAN'T get a handcuff on."

My bad, I didn't turn the CC on right away. Either way, it's a delightful standard of measurement.

 

BTW, I'm in the "Miss the Mustache" camp. And I never thought I would say that. Maybe if he had changed something else with his look, cut his hair, got rid of the damn bolo, it might not be as jarring.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

'He Was A Portly Man, Smelled Like Bourbon; Flatulent, Too.' / '...The Sarah D. Bunting Story.' The silver linings around True Detective's reset.

[Ottis]

At this point, I'm just along for the ride.  I don't even much care who killed Caspere.

 

 

I don't care about *any* of the characters, and as a result, the conclusion will be an intellectual exercise rather than the emotional one from the first season. If I have to draw a diagram at the end of how each major character was involved in the crime, I think it will be less satisfying.

 

I found Ani's comments in the sex offender class predictable. Of course she was going to screw with the clearly unteachable male offenders. She thought it ridiculous that she was there at all. What else was she going to do?

[Captain I0]

Sorry if this has been covered, but the whole Chad thing seems odd.  Maybe Jordan is his mother somehow - red hair n' all.

 

Prior to tonight's show, I was beginning to wonder if Ray was the one pulling the strings on Frank....revenge for getting someone to rape his wife so Ray would "owe" him.  Related would be Chad.  Could Jordan be Chad's mother - and put in Ray's hands somehow when the wife left for two months?  Ray could fear the paternity test becuase it could be learned that the wife is not the mother.

 

But...the DNA of the person they caught matching that of his wife's rap kit messes this up a bit..unless there was some evidence tampering (not out of the realm, but unlikely).

 

No. Chad being Jordan's doesn't make any sense.

 

But, there has always been interesting symmetry between Ray and Frank in regard to paternity issues.

 

Frank didn't want to consider adoption, because he had no interest in raising another man's kid. Jordan has convinced him to soften a bit and consider it.

 

Ray desperately doesn't want to take a paternity test, because he's afraid that Chad isn't actually his. Not that it matters to him personally, he considers him his son no matter what, but is ex will use that to take him away from him permanently.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Captain I0

[Captain I0]

As mentioned upthread, I think it would throw an very interesting monkeywrench into the works if the paternity test revealed that Chad is not Ray's soon but he isn't the ex-wife's (can't remember her name) either. 

 

Except that a paternity test wouldn't show that.

 

Key word in the test there is "paternity". They aren't taking a maternity test. They won't even be taking any swabs of his ex wife or check her dna.

 

Having him not be the ex-wife's kid makes no sense in this story, because there is pretty much no means on anyone's radar by which anybody could even find out.

[Captain I0]

This episode was giving me a strong LA Confidential vibe.  With CF being Bud White. I want it to be revealed in the paternity test that the kid is Ray's biological son. To have one thing go his way.  And I for one will miss the mustache o'doom. It added something to his character.

 

There are a few images of Paul in the credits that ping serial killer! to me.   Probably means nothing and I am just being fanciful.

 

If they want to go the cliche'd "Dectivite Story" route (which they may)... Ray will be depressed after getting swabbed for the paternity test, do something reckless at the end and get killed. After he's dead, his ex will get the results back showing that Ray actually is the father.

[Mindymoo]

Isn't Ray's son his by law though, if they were married at the time his wife gave birth? There are a lot of men who pay child support for children that aren't biologically theirs, but raise them as their own, and will continue to support them even after a divorce/separation. That's what I'm confused about.  Not that it's the case here, but it's normally the father that will try to get out of paying child support/visitation when this comes to light, not the mother trying to sever ties. And it often doesn't work out that you can just drop your connection to that child.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Mindy McIndy

[Captain I0]

Isn't Ray's son his by law though, if they were married at the time his wife gave birth? There are a lot of men who pay child support for children that aren't biologically theirs, but raise them as their own, and will continue to support them even after a divorce/separation. That's what I'm confused about.  Not that it's the case here, but it's normally the father that will try to get out of paying child support/visitation when this comes to light, not the mother trying to sever ties. And it often doesn't work out that you can just drop your connection to that child.

 

He is most certainly listed as father on his birth-cert, so yes, it's not as simple as one paternity test can remove all his paternal rights immediately.

 

However, Ray has other issues that have already restricted his visitation rights. Hence why he's also being drug tested.  And she hasn't turned him in for it, but she also knows he brass-knuckle beat a kid's father at Chad's school. We don't know if anything happened between them when they were married. But Ray certainly has more than a little temper and it wouldn't be that hard to argue that he's a threat. We've seen him yelling at Chad and scaring him early on in the season. I'm no lawyer, but if it also turns out he's not even genetically his child, I'd have to think they could come up with a pretty slam-dunk case to take away most, if not all, of his paternal rights.

 

Furthermore, Chad believes Ray's his father. Take that away and Ray's not much more than this scarey guy that yells at him at his Mom/Step dad want him to stay away from. Chad's just a few years away from being able to make some decisions on his own about if he wants to spend time with Ray or not.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Captain I0

[marcee]

That seems 50/50 right now. That's because we don't know what Birdman wants. There's been a two-month time jump and he hasn't killed anyone else.

Unless he's the one who helped the head of the garbage company find his way off that cliff?

[ShannaB]

Late to the party because it is very time consuming having 3 dogs get skunked 3 times in one week.  Will they EVER learn to NOT chase those wobbly, stinky black and white fur balls?  Gah!!

 

 

I'd just like to point out that James Frain wears shoes just like that in True Blood. Coincidence? I think not.

Wow...just wow with memory and observation skills!

 

Like another poster here, I need to use that "girth' line at a dinner party and wait for the comprehension to hit.  Oh the joy of it!

 

I will readily admit that I have zoned out many times while watching TD this Season but I don't recollect Paul ever admitting that he is gay.  Right?  If he is, and I do believe he is, then the perfect time for him to have blurted it out was at the conference with the attorneys and the girl accusing him of forcing her to do a blow job.  The timing would have been perfect so I was actually disappointed that it didn't happen.

 

I wasn't too curious before but now I really want to know what happened to Paul at Black Mountain.  The writers have flung so many side stories at us that I can only hope we get some answers in the next 3 episodes.  I really don't care that much about the custody drama and feel it is quite a silly plot contrivance to get Ray back into the fold to solve the case but I won't dwell on it because it brought Ray, Paul and Ani back together.

 

Is it strange to be proud of Rachel McAdams for her work thus far?  I definitely am pleased that she has handled her role so well and I look forward to more dramatic parts for her.

 

Colin F was amazing with his smoldering anger at the end of the episode and I can't wait to see if there will be explosions with Frank next episode.  That was a dirty thing Frank did to Ray and it started such a nasty downward spiral.

[Cardie]

Unless he's the one who helped the head of the garbage company find his way off that cliff?

 

Doesn't seem like his MO. Garbage Co. CEO's death is made to look like an accident. Caspere's Freudianly tortured body is taken on a nice car ride and posed by the roadside. The Vinci mob has committed many crimes, including murder. But Birdman seems to be independent of them, even if taking part in some of their corruption-related enterprises.

[Mindymoo]

He is most certainly listed as father on his birth-cert, so yes, it's not as simple as one paternity test can remove all his paternal rights immediately.

 

However, Ray has other issues that have already restricted his visitation rights. Hence why he's also being drug tested.  And she hasn't turned him in for it, but she also knows he brass-knuckle beat a kid's father at Chad's school. We don't know if anything happened between them when they were married. But Ray certainly has more than a little temper and it wouldn't be that hard to argue that he's a threat. We've seen him yelling at Chad and scaring him early on in the season. I'm no lawyer, but if it also turns out he's not even genetically his child, I'd have to think they could come up with a pretty slam-dunk case to take away most, if not all, of his paternal rights.

 

Furthermore, Chad believes Ray's his father. Take that away and Ray's not much more than this scarey guy that yells at him at his Mom/Step dad want him to stay away from. Chad's just a few years away from being able to make some decisions on his own about if he wants to spend time with Ray or not.

I get what you're saying, it's just that I've known biological fathers who, aside from killing people, have done much worse things to their own families and children, and it is hard as hell to get parental rights taken away. Perhaps it was the jurisdiction they were in, but some of these folks were downright terrible. Chad seems like he loves Ray, but is terrified of him at the same time. It's a very sad situation.

[Constantinople]

One think I don't understand about Ray's wife asking for a paternity test.

From doing a little research, it appears in California that if the husband is living with his wife when she becomes pregnant, and the husband isn't impotent or sterile, the husband is the father under California law. It can be challenged, but not after the child turns 2 (Note: I'm not saying this is California law, just my best guess after doing a little reading).

Ray's kid looks way older than 2.

Were Ray and his wife living together at the time? That's my understanding, but I don't claim to have noticed everything in this show by a long shot.

I guess she's doing this because it's presumably easier to get a court order to get Ray to stay away from the kid if he's not Ray's biological father, but the time to say Ray isn't the father may have passed.