Figure Skating

[alexa]

13 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

It's also of note to remember that Jason scores very well with international judges. 

Yes, and he helped the US get 3 spots for the Olympics based on his and Nathan's placement at worlds last year.  

[emmawoodhouse]

It's so great that we have such an embarrassment of riches with the Men that we can even have this debate. 😀

[annzeepark914]

The first time I saw Ilia was Skate America 2020. Then I didn't see him until yesterday. Has he been injured? If so I must've missed hearing about this.

[Chaser]

One thing that I really appreciate about the American men is how competitive their mindset is; I can’t say that about the women. I feel like the top US Women have just accepted they are middle of the pack and are ok with it. I find it really frustrating as a fan of the sport. 

[specialj67]

45 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

The first time I saw Ilia was Skate America 2020. Then I didn't see him until yesterday. Has he been injured? If so I must've missed hearing about this.

He competed in the junior Grand Prix this season. Was going to be in the JGP final before it was cancelled.

[CeeBeeGee]

Jeez, it's Trusova over Chen all over again. It's just wrong when a program as sloppy as Vincent's places above Jason's, even is by less than half a point.

[absnow54]

For a second I thought Nathan Chen falling flat on his face during the step sequence was choreographed. 

[specialj67]

1 minute ago, absnow54 said:

For a second I thought Nathan Chen falling flat on his face during the step sequence was choreographed. 

Hehe! I thought it was hilarious, as falls go.

[CeeBeeGee]

1 minute ago, absnow54 said:

For a second I thought Nathan Chen falling flat on his face during the step sequence was choreographed. 

He played it off so well! Loved his cheeky little "whatever" gesture right afterward. Perfect response.

[Lady Whistleup]

Ilia Malinin was awesome!!!

[absnow54]

4 minutes ago, specialj67 said:

Hehe! I thought it was hilarious, as falls go.

It reminds me of when Mariah Bell fell on her butt in the middle of her Britney short program a few years ago. They had footage of Bradie Tennell and Amber Glenn reacting and it was hilarious. 

[choclatechip45]

I would chose Ilia over Jason. 

[Lady Whistleup]

4 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

I would chose Ilia over Jason. 

Yeah Ilia's raw but you can see that at age 17 a lot of the pieces are already there. 

I agree that the US men show a lot of gumption compared to the ladies. The technique and consistency may not be there but they all seem to want to win very badly.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Lady Whistleup

[annzeepark914]

4 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Ilia Malinin was awesome!!!

Johnny just said that Ilia wasn't on anyone's radar. He's been on my radar since Skate America 2020. He was only 15 at the time and was very impressive. He mentioned "after all I've been through" in his interview so I'm wondering what happened. 

[honeywest]

23 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Jeez, it's Trusova over Chen all over again. It's just wrong when a program as sloppy as Vincent's places above Jason's, even is by less than half a point.

I agree.

Poor Yaroslav Paniot brought back memories of Tonya Harding.

[Jillibean]

Wow, tough call for the men. On one hand, Ilia obviously has a much smaller body of work than Vincent or Jason. But how do you leave him off after that? 

It's so hard because if he's clean, Vincent could medal. But he wasn't close to clean today and, SA aside, he hasn't been clean in most of his competitions over the past two years and the Worlds 2021 meltdown can't be too far from anyone's minds. It was really Jason who came through there with his consistency and steadiness--he isn't a medal contender, but you also know what he's going to put out there. He's not going to end up cleaning the ice with his body.

Tough, tough decision. In my heart of hearts, I'd go with Jason, I think. You're taking a bit of a risk with Ilia; Jason balances that out. But I also couldn't fault them for going with what everyone assumed it would be before the competition, Nathan, Vincent and Jason, and asking Ilia to make his first international senior competition something other than the Olympics. 

[absnow54]

10 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

He mentioned "after all I've been through" in his interview so I'm wondering what happened. 

As someone who lives in Fairfax County and has kids, I think he may be talking about the COVID lockdowns. The DC region shut down hard, and is no where near back to normal. It probably took a big toll on his training. 

[annzeepark914]

4 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

As someone who lives in Fairfax County and has kids, I think he may be talking about the COVID lockdowns. The DC region shut down hard, and is no where near back to normal. It probably took a big toll on his training. 

That may be it. He lives in Vienna...not sure if he trains in Reston. 

[gatopretoNYC]

 

The selection is supposed to be announced at 6:45 ET.

Edited January 9, 2022 by gatopretoNYC

[Avaleigh]

I know it won't happen but based on the skating today, I think they should choose Nathan, Ilia and Jason. These nationals are the Olympic trials and Vincent basically shit the bed and should have been fourth. I agree that it is the downside of the COP that Jason wasn't placed above Vincent.

 

[absnow54]

Something similar happened in 2018 when Ross Miner pulled off a huge upset to come in 2nd at Nationals, but he didn’t have the International points to make the Olympic team, and they took Adam Rippon instead (and again with Ashley Wagner in 2014.) Ilia was interviewed after the competition, and it sounds like he’ll be annoyed if he doesn’t make the team. 

[gatopretoNYC]

I'm refreshing 4 different pages over & over, waiting to see the selection. I'm super tense. Rooting for Jason to go.

[jrzy]

Just now, gatopretoNYC said:

I'm refreshing 4 different pages over & over, waiting to see the selection. I'm super tense. Rooting for Jason to go.

I love Jason Brown so much , he is such an artist.

[CeeBeeGee]

Just now, gatopretoNYC said:

I'm refreshing 4 different pages over & over, waiting to see the selection. I'm super tense. Rooting for Jason to go.

Right???!!! Same.

[GeminiDancer]

Rooting for Jason, Ilia, and Nathan to be the Olympic team.

[gatopretoNYC]

5 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Right???!!! Same.

Where do you think its Going to break first? Will it be on USFSA's twitter?

[Lady Whistleup]

Wow Ilia got chacked :( 

[Chaser]

They announced. It’s Nathan, Jason and Vincent. 

[CeeBeeGee]

Well. Thrilled for Jason, disappointed for Ilia. I don't think Vincent earned it--it's not like this free skate was all that much of a fluke. He's very inconsistent. 

 

Is Ilia the alternate?

[choclatechip45]

Damn poor Ilia. I really wish they would have left Vincent at home, but they weren't going too. 

I've always liked Jason so I'm gutted for Ilia, but very happy for Jason. 

I guess it's a good problem to have when you have 4 people for 3 spots. 

[emmawoodhouse]

Just now, CeeBeeGee said:

Well. Thrilled for Jason, disappointed for Ilia. I don't think Vincent earned it--it's not like this free skate was all that much of a fluke. He's very inconsistent. 

 

Is Ilia the alternate?

Ilia is 1st alternate.

[Lady Whistleup]

Tbh Vincent doesn't have the consistency and Brown doesn't have the jump content. The USFSA decided to go with a lose-lose situation.

[emmawoodhouse]

Vincent is in Group 2. They pretty much had to take him. It came down to Jason's BOW.

[gatopretoNYC]

YAYYYY!

[specialj67]

Given how many people are having to withdraw from stuff after testing COVID positive, I wouldn’t be shocked of Ilia did end up going to the Olympics because one of the other guys tests positive.

[Chaser]

I hate this part. Ilia came out and did his job at the Olympic qualifier. He should be on the Team. I feel terrible for Vincent, but he was a mess. 

8 minutes ago, specialj67 said:

Given how many people are having to withdraw from stuff after testing COVID positive, I wouldn’t be shocked of Ilia did end up going to the Olympics because one of the other guys tests positive.

I keep having this thought. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the competition was full of alternatives.

[absnow54]

I don’t get why Ilia competed in the junior Grand Prix instead of senior this season. It may have boosted his overall point total, since it looks like even though he won his events, he was averaging 40 points lower than Jason. Also if he thought he had a snow ball’s chance in hell at the Olympic team, he would have put himself at the senior level like last season. 

[Tippi]

I would have chosen Ilia.  He did 5 beautifully executed quads in the LP and a gorgeous triple axel.  And had a very difficult and clean SP.  That said, USFSA does have the discretion to take whoever they choose.  It's not like swimming or track where the best times are the only factor.

Vincent beating Nathan at SA sealed the deal for him back in October.  I adore Jason, but I think Ilia should have been selected.

[Avaleigh]

Can someone clear up what the deal is for 4CC? I'm just curious how this will work given the COVID situation. If we need our alternates more than ever, who does USFS choose to send to the event? Or do they just send the B group and hope for the best?

[Tippi]

To be a bit clearer--USFSA can't just name anyone they please.  There are criteria that are taken into consideration.  The selection is not solely based on how the competitors finish at Nationals.

[healthnut]

I adore Jason as well and I also think Ilia should’ve been selected. I know a lot of people were looking for Vincent to be left off, but he had the international scores to medal at the Olympics. Inconsistent or not, he absolutely should go.  

5 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

The first time I saw Ilia was Skate America 2020. Then I didn't see him until yesterday. Has he been injured? If so I must've missed hearing about this.

IIRC, He was injured last year and couldn’t submit for virtual sectionals. I thought it was ridiculous he didn’t get a bye after finishing 5th at Skate America. So he wasn’t able to compete at nationals last year. He tore it up on the Junior Grand Prix winning both of his events and likely would’ve won the JGPF if it hadn’t been cancelled. He one senior event at Cup of Austria he was 13th after the short program. He rebounded in the free to finish 3rd but had he won that event, he very well might be going to the Olympics. Also, Junior men cannot do quads in the short program so his international scores are lower due to that. 

[annzeepark914]

3 minutes ago, healthnut said:

IIRC, He was injured last year and couldn’t submit for virtual sectionals. I thought it was ridiculous he didn’t get a bye after finishing 5th at Skate America. So he wasn’t able to compete at nationals last year. He tore it up on the Junior Grand Prix winning both of his events and likely would’ve won the JGPF if it hadn’t been cancelled. He one senior event at Cup of Austria he was 13th after the short program. He rebounded in the free to finish 3rd but had he won that event, he very well might be going to the Olympics. Also, Junior men cannot do quads in the short program so his international scores are lower due to that. 

Thanks for this info'. I figured something went wrong for him to miss 2021 Nationals. And now, he gets another kick in the teeth after two outstanding performances at Nationals 2022. Ilia should be on the team. 

[absnow54]

8 minutes ago, Tippi said:

To be a bit clearer--USFSA can't just name anyone they please.  There are criteria that are taken into consideration.  The selection is not solely based on how the competitors finish at Nationals.

Yes, they clarified that somewhat when Gracie Gold nailed her SP, that there was no path to the team for her based on other selection requirements. 

8 minutes ago, healthnut said:

He tore it up on the Junior Grand Prix winning both of his events and likely would’ve won the JGPF if it hadn’t been cancelled. He one senior event at Cup of Austria he was 13th after the short program. He rebounded in the free to finish 3rd but had he won that event, he very well might be going to the Olympics. Also, Junior men cannot do quads in the short program so his international scores are lower due to that. 

The quads explains the point deficit, but why did he compete as a junior? Did missing Nationals not give him enough points to qualify? I’m trying to interpret the rules, and see you need a minimum number of ISU points to enter. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by absnow54

[healthnut]

28 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

The quads explains the point deficit, but why did he compete as a junior? Did missing Nationals not give him enough points to qualify? I’m trying to interpret the rules, and see you need a minimum number of ISU points to enter. 

So he competed in the JGP in 2019-2020, he finished fourth and seventh at his two events and was 16th at Jr. Worlds, the lowest finishing American. He didn’t have quads then. He was injured and unable to compete at nationals in 2020 also. He was a big surprise at SA last year and his new quads put him on the map. Missing nationals and just being 16, sending him to JGP made the most sense. Although I’m hindsight, he would’ve greatly benefited from being in the senior GP over skaters like Camden or Tomoko. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

Did they release the US men's teams for 4C and World's?

[Jillibean]

So basically what I'm seeing elsewhere is that while Vincent was priority group 2, the "scandal" is that he was only in that group because USFS was counting his failure to make the LP at worlds last year as a withdrawal, rather than actually counting it as 25th place. I think they were always bringing Vincent, but he's making them look bad for doing it after his LP today which was also pretty objectively overscored. Those international judges are going to be examining every one of his jumps for rotation, given his reputation, and I think they're going to find quite a few more under than the judges did today. 

I'm happy for Jason, but while my heart would break for Vincent if he didn't make it, this does feel a bit like doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result. Ilia would at least be a new skater to try out. But as has been stated, this might come down to who does or doesn't get COVID.

[Harry24]

1 hour ago, specialj67 said:

Given how many people are having to withdraw from stuff after testing COVID positive, I wouldn’t be shocked of Ilia did end up going to the Olympics because one of the other guys tests positive.

Yes, and I don’t believe it was mentioned on this board (and haven’t seen the broadcast yet), but Jason’s coach, Tracy Wilson, tested positive today.  And they were cheek by jowl for their marathon trip from Toronto to Nashville.  So Ilia may be in luck.  

[MaryMitch]

I wish they would settle on a way to display the running technical score. I think they should go back to showing the base score and GOE for each element and not this "base score and final score" or "max score and element score" crap.  I don't want to have to do math in my head during the skate!  And why should we have to see the max score? It's not like in gymnastics when you start with a max score and then make deductions.

[absnow54]

3 minutes ago, Harry24 said:

Yes, and I don’t believe it was mentioned on this board (and haven’t seen the broadcast yet), but Jason’s coach, Tracy Wilson, tested positive today.  And they were cheek by jowl for their marathon trip from Toronto to Nashville.  So Ilia may be in luck.  

That might actually be a good thing. At the rate it’s spreading, Jason would test positive in a few days and be in the clear before the games started. This is going to be such a stressful month for everyone who made the team. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

I think a lot of athletes/coaches will test positive after this competition, but I don't think they will report it.  Most importantly, I hope everyone is/remains healthy.

I loved Jason's skate.  I suspect he will do like Adam Rippon at the olympics and go for two clean  programs rather than try the quad and fall.  Not sure the risk would outweigh the reward.