Figure Skating

[CeeBeeGee]

19 minutes ago, Jillibean said:

And let's not forget his finest moment, his role as Sergei in Center Stage. 

Yes! Love that movie!

[Jeddah]

3 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

 

That hideous giraffe jacket--*shudder.* 

That outfit! Has he ever given an explanation about what he was thinking with that outfit?

I’ll never understand Scott Hamilton talking about how good Ilia will be in four years. Hey, Scott, you don’t have to wait 4 years to watch his gold medal performance. You literally just watched it.

[Lady Whistleup]

1 minute ago, Jeddah said:

That outfit! Has he ever given an explanation about what he was thinking with that outfit?

I’ll never understand Scott Hamilton talking about how good Ilia will be in four years. Hey, Scott, you don’t have to wait 4 years to watch his gold medal performance. You literally just watched it.

One thing that was so annoying about Scott Hamilton was that he was very shameless about plugging anyone on Stars on Ice. After awhile it became really obvious -- if you weren't on SOI, he always peppered his commentary with little backhanded compliments. Sandra Bezic was the same way.

[annzeepark914]

On 1/11/2022 at 8:54 AM, Lady Whistleup said:

I actually wonder what convos between David Pelletier and his now-wife Katia Gordeeva are like re: the SLC scandal. I have a feeling B&S's skating would have been way more to Katia's tastes. 

I remember that when Katia was asked (in the midst of the scandal) which team deserved the gold, she said that B/S did. Guess DP decided to let that slide. They look very happy together.

[honeywest]

1 hour ago, Jeddah said:

That outfit! Has he ever given an explanation about what he was thinking with that outfit?

http://www.kuliks-krew.com/Kulik_programs/RiB.shtml

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1998-feb-14-sp-19135-story.html

[CeeBeeGee]

8 minutes ago, honeywest said:

http://www.kuliks-krew.com/Kulik_programs/RiB.shtml

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1998-feb-14-sp-19135-story.html

 

From the Times article:

Quote

New York taxi cab running into a cow

 

DYING

[honeywest]

5 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

 

From the Times article:

 

DYING

I always thought overripe banana.

[Avaleigh]

11 hours ago, healthnut said:

Current ladies could definitely make IJS work better for them by trying more difficult combinations or doing them in the second half vs the first half. I, too, would like to see spins worth more points and I'm SO SICK of Beilmann spins, can we give out level 4 for centered spins with more revolutions instead of just achieving hypermobile positions?

I think revaluing 3A is a good idea, I think it's sad 30 years after Midori and Tonya we are just now getting to a place where there is more than one or two ladies attempting them. The gold standard in the men's event used to be the 3A/3T combo and that's such a rarity now. I'd love to see it make a comeback.

I get what you're saying about falls having pretty fair penalties. At the same time the ladies who won gold, silver and bronze at Worlds this year all had falls, some more than one. Meanwhile the skaters in fourth snd fifth had clean programs that were winners artistically. Something is wrong with the sport when the people who are on the podium always have one or more falls. Europeans was the same thing--falls for two out of the three medalists. It makes it seem like falls aren't a big deal anymore. 

Agreed about Biellmann's. My suggestion would be classic, centered layback for the short program and Biellmann or catch foot positions for the long. Very few skaters do a proper layback now. Karen Chen is one of the few.

Agreed too about reevaluating the triple axel. I wouldn't have it be worth more than a quad lutz, flip or loop but definitely worth more than a quad toe or salchow.

While we're changing things, please add a spiral sequence for the long program. Flexibility and extension should be valued in figure skating. 

Also, can something be done about step sequences to keep them all from looking so similar? Everyone now feels the need to slide on their knee at some point whether or not it makes choreographic sense. Illusions are forced in where they don't look good because---points.

[annzeepark914]

Didn't they say no lying, sitting, etc , on the ice (maybe in the '90's, after all the "dying on ice" scenes)? At the time I think that included all the slides and moves that looked like falls. To me, these moves look like show skating, not competitive.

[HartofDixie]

Revisiting 1994 dance I think I would have had either T/D or U/Z first.

 

 

 

[annzeepark914]

I can't believe they won gold^^^^. Must've been that slide at the end by Platov--that was what got them the 6.0, definitely! 🙄.  Torville & Dean were way ahead of the other two teams, athletically and artistically. Even U/Z were more athletic. 

[choclatechip45]

Do all the Montreal Ice Dancing teams have as much drama as the Canton teams did? Or is it a much better environment? I'm curious because I was watching some clip of one of the Montreal Ice Dancing Teams and Tanith was talking about what a great environment it is and it made me side eye since we all know about the Canton drama.

[Lady Whistleup]

7 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

Do all the Montreal Ice Dancing teams have as much drama as the Canton teams did? Or is it a much better environment? I'm curious because I was watching some clip of one of the Montreal Ice Dancing Teams and Tanith was talking about what a great environment it is and it made me side eye since we all know about the Canton drama.

I think part of the drama in Canton was the blurred lines between Zueva and her charges:

1) Her son Fedor Andreev was on staff there as a coach and choreographer

2) Andreev dated Tanith Belbin, then he dated Tessa Virtue, and finally he dated his now-wife Meryl Davis. This apparently caused a lot of tension between the three ladies (understandably). 

3) There were a lot of rumors of disordered eating and body shaming among the teams. 

[choclatechip45]

6 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I think part of the drama in Canton was the blurred lines between Zueva and her charges:

1) Her son Fedor Andreev was on staff there as a coach and choreographer

2) Andreev dated Tanith Belbin, then he dated Tessa Virtue, and finally he dated his now-wife Meryl Davis. This apparently caused a lot of tension between the three ladies (understandably). 

3) There were a lot of rumors of disordered eating and body shaming among the teams. 

Thanks and didn't Zueva favor whatever women her son was dating?

I remember the rumors about disordered eating too.

[OnePlusOne]

12 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

Revisiting 1994 dance I think I would have had either T/D or U/Z first.

 

 

 

I love re-watching Torvill & Dean's '94 performance, but it's always immediately followed by rage over the judges placing them in 3rd while that tacky, faux-rock n' roll crap by Grishuk & Platov won gold. I still think it's crap that T&D were dinged for the move at the end, while the judges didn't ding G&P for skating apart for longer than the rules allowed. Other than Michelle Kwan "losing" to Tara in '98, no other past Olympic FS result still pisses me off so much LOL.

[healthnut]

On 1/17/2022 at 7:11 PM, choclatechip45 said:

Do all the Montreal Ice Dancing teams have as much drama as the Canton teams did? Or is it a much better environment? I'm curious because I was watching some clip of one of the Montreal Ice Dancing Teams and Tanith was talking about what a great environment it is and it made me side eye since we all know about the Canton drama.

Have you seen On Edge on YouTube? They’ve been following the Ice Academy of Montreal all season. It’s a pretty good glimpse into the training environment. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by healthnut

[Domenicholas]

Here's the link to the On Edge series about IAM and six of their teams (P/C, C/B, H/D, F/G, S/D, and FB/S):

https://olympics.com/en/original-series/on-edge/

I really like the series. It shows IAM to be a very welcoming and supportive, albeit competitive environment. We also get to see softer sides of Hubbell and Donaghue, which was a nice surprise. And I've always liked Chock and Bates, and the series makes me love them more.

[choclatechip45]

5 hours ago, healthnut said:

Have you seen On Edge on YouTube? They’ve been following the Ice Academy of Montreal all season. It’s a pretty glimpse into the training environment. 

I have not, but I'll definitely check it out. I watched Tessa & Scott back in the day and you could definitely sense the tension between them and Charlie/Meryl. 

[SeanC]

On 1/17/2022 at 7:24 AM, Avaleigh said:

While we're changing things, please add a spiral sequence for the long program.

People who want to do a spiral sequence can do one in the choreographic sequence.

[Avaleigh]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

People who want to do a spiral sequence can do one in the choreographic sequence.

I  don't want it to be an option where skaters choose whether or not to do a spiral sequence. I want it to be a requirement in either the short or the long so that skaters have to make an effort with it if they want to maximize points. I also want to be able to compare spiral sequences from skater to skater. Obviously that won't work if some skaters can choose to not do them.

[honeywest]

I want to see Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen spirals. Karen Chen could do one.

[emmawoodhouse]

Karen presents a lovely spiral. 

[SeanC]

9 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I  don't want it to be an option where skaters choose whether or not to do a spiral sequence. I want it to be a requirement in either the short or the long so that skaters have to make an effort with it if they want to maximize points. I also want to be able to compare spiral sequences from skater to skater. Obviously that won't work if some skaters can choose to not do them.

There no reason that men and women should have different required elements.

When they did have required spirals for women it regularly stopped the program dead, so I always considered those being ditched a huge improvement also.

Edited January 19, 2022 by SeanC

[annzeepark914]

I don't recall a Michelle Kwan change-edge spiral stopping her program dead. They're hard to do and with today's soft music, they'd wake up the crowd.

[HartofDixie]

17 hours ago, Domenicholas said:

Here's the link to the On Edge series about IAM and six of their teams (P/C, C/B, H/D, F/G, S/D, and FB/S):

https://olympics.com/en/original-series/on-edge/

I really like the series. It shows IAM to be a very welcoming and supportive, albeit competitive environment. We also get to see softer sides of Hubbell and Donaghue, which was a nice surprise. And I've always liked Chock and Bates, and the series makes me love them more.

Also on YouTube though it gets posted on Saturday 

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-292yfpAFGZ8AHilxP_JGETARcF6W_LI

 

[annzeepark914]

10 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

Also on YouTube though it gets posted on Saturday 

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-292yfpAFGZ8AHilxP_JGETARcF6W_LI

 

Thanks to both DOMENICHOLAS & HARTOFDIXIE for the links to this series. I just finished watching it. It was great to see/listen to Gabrielle & Guillaume. He sounds American at times (don't tell him I said that 😁). Don't Hawayek & Baker train there as well? I was surprised that Madison H. spoke so openly about competing against G&G, especially in describing her frustration when the French had an error at one of the competitions but it didn't seem to make a difference (as it did when Zach tripped). I just don't see her with Adrian. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by annzeepark914

[Jillibean]

12 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

I have not, but I'll definitely check it out. I watched Tessa & Scott back in the day and you could definitely sense the tension between them and Charlie/Meryl. 

Scott Moir and Charlie White seemed to be pretty good friends for a while--while Tessa and Scott were consistently beating Meryl and Charlie. After V/M won the gold in 2010 I believe they took some time off, and also somewhere in there Tessa stopped dating Fedor and Meryl started dating him. Then their positions reversed, and it seems like the friendship between Scott and Charlie got really strained. I don't think Meryl and Tessa were ever friends--she was part of that girls group with Tanith, Brooke Castile and Lauren Senft, and Tessa was never a part of that. I do think V/M felt like Marina favored D/W in that 2014 quad. There doesn't seem to be quite as much drama in Montreal, though it's honestly hard to say how that is given how much all these teams want the same thing and there isn't enough to go around. 

1 hour ago, annzeepark914 said:

Thanks to both DOMENICHOLAS & HARTOFDIXIE for the links to this series. I just finished watching it. It was great to see/listen to Gabrielle & Guillaume. He sounds American at times (don't tell him I said that 😁). Don't Hawayek & Baker train there as well? I was surprised that Madison H. spoke so openly about competing against G&G, especially in describing her frustration when the French had an error at one of the competitions but it didn't seem to make a difference (as it did when Zak tripped). I just don't see her with Adrian. 

I liked her more after watching it, and I totally agree about Adrian. I don't even love Madi and I feel like he should just be thrilled he's with her, constantly, like Evan seems to be with Madi C. And he...didn't strike me that way. Also I've thought for quite some time that Zach is still in love with her. 

[HartofDixie]

Results link for Four Continents

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season2122/fc2022/

Hoping they add the stream

https://www.youtube.com/c/SkatingISU

[Avaleigh]

13 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

I don't recall a Michelle Kwan change-edge spiral stopping her program dead. They're hard to do and with today's soft music, they'd wake up the crowd.

Agreed. So many spiral sequences were crowd pleasers and certainly weren't stopping programs dead. If a spiral sequence was worth the right amount of points I'm sure that we would start seeing beautiful and innovative extensions again.

[annzeepark914]

1 hour ago, Jillibean said:

I liked her more after watching it, and I totally agree about Adrian. I don't even love Madi and I feel like he should just be thrilled he's with her, constantly, like Evan seems to be with Madi C. And he...didn't strike me that way. Also I've thought for quite some time that Zach is still in love with her. 

Yup. Zach was enjoying the pre-competition nuzzles a bit too much to be faking it. 

[HartofDixie]

 

[ChicksDigScars]

Eteri's daughter makes the Dance Team cut.

Pretends to be SHOCKED. 

Ugh...Trusova.

 

 

 

[specialj67]

1 hour ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Eteri's daughter makes the Dance Team cut.

Pretends to be SHOCKED. 

Ugh...Trusova.

 

 

 

What I want to know is how much politicking is going to go on to get Davis and Smolkin named for the team event? Oh the drama that could ensue!

[Avaleigh]

1 hour ago, specialj67 said:

What I want to know is how much politicking is going to go on to get Davis and Smolkin named for the team event? Oh the drama that could ensue!

Lol, it literally didn't occur to me that they'd try to be that obvious about making sure Diana gets her medal. Am I naive in thinking they wouldn't do that?

Stay healthy Stepanova and Bukin. Don't leave any food or beverages unattended!

[specialj67]

3 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

Lol, it literally didn't occur to me that they'd try to be that obvious about making sure Diana gets her medal. Am I naive in thinking they wouldn't do that?

Stay healthy Stepanova and Bukin. Don't leave any food or beverages unattended!

After their win with that stupidly inflated score at Warsaw Cup a couple of months ago, it sure seems like anything could happen! 
 

And to be honest, I don’t hate them as a team. Are their programs tacky? Sure. Do I loose interest in their free dance about 90 seconds in? Yeah. But I do like their gumption, and that they do their best to sell the hell out of those tacky Igor Shpilband programs.

[annzeepark914]

12 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Lol, it literally didn't occur to me that they'd try to be that obvious about making sure Diana gets her medal. Am I naive in thinking they wouldn't do that?

Stay healthy Stepanova and Bukin. Don't leave any food or beverages unattended!

A lot of people might roll their eyes, but I remember Kristi Yamaguchi back in '92, talking about always protecting her skates at competitions. Competitors must always be on guard, unfortunately. So, one never knows how things will end up 👀.

Edited January 21, 2022 by annzeepark914

[Jillibean]

15 hours ago, specialj67 said:

What I want to know is how much politicking is going to go on to get Davis and Smolkin named for the team event? Oh the drama that could ensue!

Wouldn't that be to the detriment of the Russian team, though? S&K, assuming they're healthy enough to compete and not make mistakes, are going to get second or first place in both sections. If they sub in either other Russian team, they're going to get beaten by both the US (either H/D or C/B) and Canada (presumably G/P) in that area, and depending on who else is in the finals, possibly even another team? 

Or will it not matter because they're going to win pairs and ladies?

Edited January 21, 2022 by Jillibean

[KittenPokerCheater]

If I were any of Eteri's girls, I too would be watching my back.  You know how eager Tuktamysheva is to go.

[Jeddah]

16 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

A lot of people might roll their eyes, but I remember Kristi Yamaguchi back in '92, talking about always protecting her skates at competitions. Competitors must always be on guard, unfortunately. So, one never knows how things will end up 👀.

She was skating the same time as Tonya after all!

[specialj67]

5 hours ago, Jillibean said:

Wouldn't that be to the detriment of the Russian team, though? S&K, assuming they're healthy enough to compete and not make mistakes, are going to get second or first place in both sections. If they sub in either other Russian team, they're going to get beaten by both the US (either H/D or C/B) and Canada (presumably G/P) in that area, and depending on who else is in the finals, possibly even another team? 

Or will it not matter because they're going to win pairs and ladies?

I think Russia is less vulnerable in dance without S/K, if S/K decide to opt out of one or both team event segments, because Russia is so strong in women and pairs. And honestly, looking at how Stepanova and Bukin scored at Euros this month? They could place higher than the Canadian team in the RD. And if, hypothetically, Davis and Smolkin were picked for the FD in the team event, they could only hinder Russia’s final score (and likely team gold medal) by a few points with a 5th place finish. Not that I’m actively hoping this will happen—I just think it would be hilarious that Davis and Smolkin could be certified OGM* skaters(*team) in their first int’l senior season.

[Lady Whistleup]

I feel like Sasha is the most vulnerable of the three Russian girls. She hasn't skated clean once this season, and she's had a couple short program flame outs.

Anna and  Kamila have stronger presentation and have been more consistent. I actually think Kamila is an amazing skater and I hope she wins OGM.

[Avaleigh]

2 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I feel like Sasha is the most vulnerable of the three Russian girls. She hasn't skated clean once this season, and she's had a couple short program flame outs.

Anna and  Kamila have stronger presentation and have been more consistent. I actually think Kamila is an amazing skater and I hope she wins OGM.

I don't have any doubt that Kamila will win. Apart from having some kind of five fall meltdown, it seems to be in the bag. If that 90 point+ in the short program at Europeans is anything to go by, she could have a spill in the short program and still be in the top three going into the long. I wouldn't be surprised if all of the Russians fall and still have a sweep.

Keep in mind, I'm rooting for Kamila to win it because I agree with you that she's an amazing skater. I just want it to be with an incredible skate that matches how talented she is. I don't want it to be with the performance she gave at Europeans. 

My heart will break for Anna if they don't choose her for the team event. It's her best shot at getting gold.

I don't think I've ever seen Trusova do a long program that was 100% clean. I think the only way she gets above bronze is with mistakes from the others.

I'm really pulling for You Young to be a dark horse candidate for that bronze medal. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

I know it probably won't happen, but I would love Kaori to sneak in for the Bronze.

[HartofDixie]

After dance and pairs decided to rewatch Nancy and Oksana's 94 free skates.  I think it could have gone either way but the judging panel was more favorable to Oksana.

 

And then there was Tonya

 

[Lady Whistleup]

Tonya had amazing jump technique. Like so many years later, I still think her lutz is the most textbook lutz of all, with the perfect outside edge.

[Avaleigh]

1 hour ago, HartofDixie said:

After dance and pairs decided to rewatch Nancy and Oksana's 94 free skates.  I think it could have gone either way but the judging panel was more favorable to Oksana.

To me it was an easy call. Nancy had a clean triple/triple plus a triple lutz late in the program. Oksana's combination was a double axel double toe and even that was shaky considering it's the easiest combination she could have done. She also had two footed jumps in the short and the long. 

Nancy got robbed. 

[Lady Whistleup]

44 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

To me it was an easy call. Nancy had a clean triple/triple plus a triple lutz late in the program. Oksana's combination was a double axel double toe and even that was shaky considering it's the easiest combination she could have done. She also had two footed jumps in the short and the long. 

Nancy got robbed. 

Apparently Nancy was just really not liked within the skating community. She was known as being a bit bitchy and snotty behind the scenes. It seemed like the big titles always got away from her.

I did agree that she deserved to win gold, even though I never warmed to her skating either. Scotvold's choreography never did anything for me.

[CeeBeeGee]

1 minute ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Apparently Nancy was just really not liked within the skating community. She was known as being a bit bitchy and snotty behind the scenes. It seemed like the big titles always got away from her.

I did agree that she deserved to win gold, even though I never warmed to her skating either. Scotvold's choreography never did anything for me.

If we want to stipulate that off-ice activities can affect the judges' votes (I mean, of course we do), Nancy's whole Olympic campaign to position herself as The Victim irritated me. I could've rooted for her if she'd shown up in Lillehammer ready to get down to business, all "let me show you my awesome triples and combinations!" But wearing that white dress really fucking irritated me. It was so performative, I felt. You are (or were) the victim--why are you playing the victim? Why are you reminding us you were the victim? We know that already. Just concentrate on your skating and stop campaigning. I get that it was an extraordinary set of circumstances--and I imagine her extremely rapid descent from America's Sweetheart to America's Sour Silver Medalist must've bewildered her (I hate how quickly we turn on women)--but just concentrate on your skating. Let that be your story. 

This is all to say that by the LP, I was rooting for Oksana. She'd had drama too (the collision with Szewczenko) and she took the shot and got down to business. And I absolutely loved how she doubled that triple and then threw it in at the end. That always impresses me when skaters do that (I remember a program when Todd Eldridge did that, it wildly impressed me). That means a skater is here to win. Nancy came off as smug, Oksana came off as hungry. Obviously this is all YMMV.

[NUguy514]

Yeah, the problem is that Nancy’s skate was clean while Oksana’s was a total mess.  It should not have been a contest, but Eastern European judges love to Eastern European.  I also thought Nancy showed in her actual skates that she was completely focused on the task at hand, and it was the media playing things up much more than Nancy herself.  The media was hounding her the entire time; she deserved gold for being able to put all of that aside enough to focus on giving two terrific skates.

[ShellsandCheese]

I loved Oksana’s free skate, it’s one of my faves. Nancy was the better technical skater but under the old scoring system artistry was given the upper hand over technical merit. Nancy didn’t just deserve gold because the media was hounding her. 

It’s fascinating reading stuff from the 1994 competition explaining how Baiul won:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1994-02-27-9402270251-story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/1994/02/27/sports/winter-olympics-the-judges-judge-says-baiul-deserves-the-gold.html