Figure Skating

[Avaleigh]

7 minutes ago, SeanC said:

The issue there is that you can only split two disciplines and by prior USFS procedure Nathan and the #1 ice dance team get right of first refusal on that. So there's not likely to be room for two women, they'd have to pick just one of them -- which is a problem in this case because in the short program you'd want a skater with a reliable triple-triple, which Mariah and Karen don't have.

Is it totally out of the question for H/D to choose to skate both portions? (Or C/B?) Or is it because they're friends that there's no way either team would choose to skate both portions? 

[SeanC]

Just now, Avaleigh said:

Is it totally out of the question for H/D to choose to skate both portions? (Or C/B?) Or is it because they're friends that there's no way either team would choose to skate both portions? 

The top two US dance teams have already said that their preference is to split the two segments between them.

[Lady Whistleup]

Can we talk about how 4 years later, Tessa Virtue's red Moulin Rouge dress is still inspiring knockoffs:

 

[absnow54]

7 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

As for who should skate what at the Olympics I'm guessing they'll have Mariah skate the short and Alysa the long. It'll be hard to justify leaving the national champion off of the team event.

I think they’d go the other way around. Use Alysa in the SP to hit all the required elements and have Mariah or Karen do the FS and milk the component points. The FS is less competitive than the SP for the Team Event because you get points for rank, not overall score, and there are less competitors the second half, because only the top 5 teams advance, so you’re guaranteed 6 points, just by putting your skate on the ice.

Competitively, it makes most sense to play Nathan for both SP/FS, because he’s most likely to out score the Japanese skaters, and the men’s discipline is the only place they can make up points against the Russian team. But they wouldn’t risk his individual medal (and also they wouldn’t want to risk him crashing and burning like last time.)

As for choosing an alternate between Ladies and Ice Dancing, it really comes down to who they want to give medals to. I don’t think Canada is very competitive the season, so US is almost guaranteed a medal, and will mostly be focusing on beating Japan for the silver, I would think. 

[annzeepark914]

I may have mis-heard what Johnny said, thanks to his mask, but...did he imply that Anthony Pomonarenko's partner wasn't skating at AP's level, that she was always skating on the flats of her blades? He also said that AP was naturally gifted as a skater. Interesting. No one mentioned that Scott Moir is their new coach (or has this changed & nobody told me 😾?)

[lurkerbee]

16 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

Oh...hot damn! Chock/Bates nailed it tonight--they broke the scoring record!  Johnny Weir loved Madison's "diva moment" when she writhes around Evan & then stood on his knee. 

Yes! So happy for them and hope they can hold on for the win tonight. Thrilled for Mariah too.

After digging my car out of the snow this morning, I was sitting here having my coffee when it really hit me that I’m going to Nationals today (and tomorrow)! it’s been ages since Ive been and I’m so excited! 

Edited January 8, 2022 by lurkerbee

[lurkerbee]

1 hour ago, annzeepark914 said:

I may have mis-heard what Johnny said, thanks to his mask, but...did he imply that Anthony Pomonarenko's partner wasn't skating at AP's level, that she was always skating on the flats of her blades? He also said that AP was naturally gifted as a skater. Interesting. No one mentioned that Scott Moir is their new coach (or has this changed & nobody told me 😾?)

He actually said AP was skating on flats, but I didn’t notice AP on flats*. There was another team where he said the male partner was skating down to his partner’s level when she should be skating up to his level but I can’t remember who that was. 

*This team is a sentimental favorite of mine because his parents are my all-time favorite dance team, but I did play their RD back to try to see what Johnny was talking about and didn’t notice it.

[Lady Whistleup]

Christina Carreira and Anthony Ponomarenko have regressed this year. They just aren't developing as a couple.

[annzeepark914]

1 hour ago, lurkerbee said:

He actually said AP was skating on flats, but I didn’t notice AP on flats*. There was another team where he said the male partner was skating down to his partner’s level when she should be skating up to his level but I can’t remember who that was. 

*This team is a sentimental favorite of mine because his parents are my all-time favorite dance team, but I did play their RD back to try to see what Johnny was talking about and didn’t notice it.

Maybe the male skater he said was skating down to his partner's level was the one from Ukraine? I should've been taking notes. JW is becoming an interesting source of info'.

Anthony looks so much like his mother. I saw his parents perform in Champions on Ice twice. Their programs were OTT stunning! 

 

[iMonrey]

I thought Karen Chen was robbed, she had the cleaner skate. But neither has a snowball's chance in hell of standing on the Olympic podium (barring the team event) so I guess the point is moot.

Quote

For people who follow figure skating how come Men's Ice Skating and Ice Dancing in the US has done so well compared to Us Ladies Figure Skating?

I've been lamenting this for so long now. I'm just over the Ladies discipline because we haven't had a real Olympic contender in ages. 

Quote

Isabeau gives me hope. I've been worried about the future of American (and Canadian) ladies skating but Isabeau and Maddie are bright spots I look forward to seeing more of.

Yeah I don't know what it's going to take before we start seeing some of these up-and-comers being competitive with their jumps. Isabeau is a beautiful skater, but let's face it, if the Russians are throwing quads right and left we're going to need our Ladies to learn quads too.

Quote

Gracie’s gonna Gracie. I felt terrible for her.

 I was heartened by her SP but she has a tendency to fall apart and give up if she misses her first jump, and that's exactly what happened in her LP. She never seems to get up and keep fighting. I don't know why she's still competing. I feel like I'm watching her go through some sort of personal therapy and it makes me uncomfortable.

[CeeBeeGee]

12 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I feel like I'm watching her go through some sort of personal therapy and it makes me uncomfortable.

This, exactly. Watching her fall apart again and again on the national stage is awful.

[absnow54]

8 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah I don't know what it's going to take before we start seeing some of these up-and-comers being competitive with their jumps. Isabeau is a beautiful skater, but let's face it, if the Russians are throwing quads right and left we're going to need our Ladies to learn quads too.

What’s more likely? A consistent 3A or a. easier quad like a toe loop? Because we can’t even get a solid 3A here. 

[honeywest]

3 hours ago, lurkerbee said:

He actually said AP was skating on flats, but I didn’t notice AP on flats*. There was another team where he said the male partner was skating down to his partner’s level when she should be skating up to his level but I can’t remember who that was. 

*This team is a sentimental favorite of mine because his parents are my all-time favorite dance team, but I did play their RD back to try to see what Johnny was talking about and didn’t notice it.

He was talking about Molly Cesanek and Yehor Yehorov.  I do like them, but I thought that was a shrewd observation.

I didn’t realize that Jeffrey Chen of Wolfkostin and Chen is Karen’s brother.

Edited January 8, 2022 by honeywest

[Mittengirl]

Will the alternate skaters be in Beijing in the Olympic Village “bubble”?  It seems highly likely that one (or more) will be needed.  I seem to recall when Michelle Kwan dropped out in Torino, Emily Hughes had to hustle to make it from New York in time to compete.  
 

 

[Lady Whistleup]

2 hours ago, absnow54 said:

What’s more likely? A consistent 3A or a. easier quad like a toe loop? Because we can’t even get a solid 3A here. 

Both are hard, but for people without big, high jumps, I think a quad is easier. Triple axels tend to be easier for people with powerful legs and muscles. Even Nathan Chen is not great at the 3A. 

Think about the ladies who have done the 3A consistently: Midori, Tonya, Mao, Liza, Aliona, Kamila. All were "strong" skaters. The US women still tend to be very delicate and tiny. 

[choclatechip45]

1 hour ago, Mittengirl said:

Will the alternate skaters be in Beijing in the Olympic Village “bubble”?  It seems highly likely that one (or more) will be needed.  I seem to recall when Michelle Kwan dropped out in Torino, Emily Hughes had to hustle to make it from New York in time to compete.  
 

 

In the past Alternates have not been allowed to say in the village. 

[Lady Whistleup]

The mens' SP is the opposite of the women. Whereas the women could not buy a triple-triple, it seems as if the senior men need a quad just to qualify.

[redpencil]

Wow, the men killed it! What a fantastic SP! Top 7 all over 88 points! I know, Nationals scoring and all, but still. That was some quality skating.

[Rootbeer]

59 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

In the past Alternates have not been allowed to say in the village. 

It has been a long time since the US figure skating team stayed in the village anyway.  Many athletes from the elite sports: the skiers, snowboarders, and hockey players; don't stay there, either.  For athletes at that level in those sports, winning an Olympic medal means a lot of money and they tend to spend on hotel space rather than hope that the village is adequate.

The main issue is probably going to be finding practice ice for the team alternates.  Usually, that is at a premium in the Olympic region because there are so many competitors from sports that need an ice rink for practice and competition.

I would think that USFSA is at least looking into this and considering the logistics involved should they need to bring in replacements.  That is especially true since travel has become so much more complicated in the pandemic.

[alexa]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 

 I was heartened by her SP but she has a tendency to fall apart and give up if she misses her first jump, and that's exactly what happened in her LP. She never seems to get up and keep fighting. I don't know why she's still competing. I feel like I'm watching her go through some sort of personal therapy and it makes me uncomfortable.

Yes, I agree.  Even though I was happy for her doing well in her SP you could still see she drags through so much of it, and is missing so many of the skills, speed, etc, that she once had.  The difference between her and the joy of Mariah was like night and day.  I really noticed that very quickly--and again, was happy she had a good skate but wish she would find a way to find joy in her life and skating again.  

[choclatechip45]

6 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

It has been a long time since the US figure skating team stayed in the village anyway.  Many athletes from the elite sports: the skiers, snowboarders, and hockey players; don't stay there, either.  For athletes at that level in those sports, winning an Olympic medal means a lot of money and they tend to spend on hotel space rather than hope that the village is adequate.

The main issue is probably going to be finding practice ice for the team alternates.  Usually, that is at a premium in the Olympic region because there are so many competitors from sports that need an ice rink for practice and competition.

I would think that USFSA is at least looking into this and considering the logistics involved should they need to bring in replacements.  That is especially true since travel has become so much more complicated in the pandemic.

I remember in 2010 Johnny and Tanith were suitemates because Johnny, Tanith and Evan all requested single rooms. 

[Lady Whistleup]

The US nationals for the men is like the Russian nationals for the women. Three spots for about 5 skaters that could easily medal if they went to the Olys.

[iMonrey]

What a great men's short. Like night and day, the difference between Men's and Ladies. So many great contenders. Ilia Melinin was a real surprise, I hope he makes the team. I actually thought Vincent Zhou had a better long program than Nathan Chen. Also, Chen's quad lutz looked a little under-rotated to me. But I also loved the Ukrainian guy's disco medley. Probably my favorite SP just in terms of pure entertainment. 

Speaking of which, what's up with two men from Russia (well, a Russian and a Ukrainian) competing at US Nationals?

I can't be the only one tired of Jason Brown. I'm going to be really pissed if he takes a spot from someone who actually has a shot at an Olympic medal. 

[alexa]

18 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

What a great men's short. Like night and day, the difference between Men's and Ladies. So many great contenders. Ilia Melinin was a real surprise, I hope he makes the team. I actually thought Vincent Zhou had a better long program than Nathan Chen. Also, Chen's quad lutz looked a little under-rotated to me. But I also loved the Ukrainian guy's disco medley. Probably my favorite SP just in terms of pure entertainment. 

Speaking of which, what's up with two men from Russia (well, a Russian and a Ukrainian) competing at US Nationals?

I can't be the only one tired of Jason Brown. I'm going to be really pissed if he takes a spot from someone who actually has a shot at an Olympic medal. 

Jason Brown may not have a quad, but he has so many other skills that other skaters do not have.  He racks up a lot of points for all of the extra things he can do in his programs.  And outside of Nathan and a couple of others, he scores pretty close to some of the other competitors.  I think he brings something really nice to men's figure skating, imo.  

[Lady Whistleup]

14 minutes ago, alexa said:

Jason Brown may not have a quad, but he has so many other skills that other skaters do not have.  He racks up a lot of points for all of the extra things he can do in his programs.  And outside of Nathan and a couple of others, he scores pretty close to some of the other competitors.  I think he brings something really nice to men's figure skating, imo.  

He does, but I don't think he should do the team competition. Feel like Vincent and Nathan should do it.

[specialj67]

8 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

He does, but I don't think he should do the team competition. Feel like Vincent and Nathan should do it.

I would think that the selection committee or whatever would ask Nathan what he wants to do and assign Vincent to whichever phase Nathan doesn’t want to do (I’m assuming Nathan will not want to do both). Vincent definitely has higher scoring potential than Jason, no question, and could possibly be first if he skates cleanly.

[Avaleigh]

48 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

He does, but I don't think he should do the team competition. Feel like Vincent and Nathan should do it.

It's the sentimental part of me that wants Jason to be able to compete in the team event. That being said, I think Vincent deserves to compete in the team event. He's the stronger choice plus he doesn’t have a medal and Jason already has a bronze. It's a tough call but it's more practical (and fair) to choose Vincent. 

[annzeepark914]

When Yaroslav Paniot's music began ("Boogie Shoes"), the crowd got so excited. I don't blame them. Too many skaters are selecting such bland, soft-voiced vocals.  They almost put you to sleep. This was a great men's SP.  Pairs LP was not so great except for Caine-Gribble and Leduc. And I really got hooked on Chan/Howe. I was as impressed as Johnny, watching Howe get Chan up in that final lift. But the whole time this team was skating, I was so absorbed by the image they projected via choreography & how they skated together.

[absnow54]

It’s really awkward that Tanith coaches and does commentary. Especially since her team was kind of mediocre. 

[specialj67]

So pleased for Madison and Evan! Though my fave of the night was Hawayek and Baker; their program is so elegant and sophisticated, and they delivered such a beautiful performance of it.

[honeywest]

I’m so glad Hawayek and Baker came through.

[Lady Whistleup]

I like Chock and Bates but I hate their FD. My favorite FD was Green and Parsons. 

[healthnut]

What a fantastic day of skating! The men were on fire! The exact opposite of the Russian and Canadian men who were a collective mess. Performances of the day were Jason, Ilia, and Vincent. 

Pairs was depressing honestly. So many mistakes. My personal highlight was Spencer Howe, now that he’s ditched the ponytail, he’s just HOT. 

Dance: I am so, so thrilled for Madi & Evan. Their rhythm dance yesterday was ON FIRE.  Their FD still hasn’t come together for me. I like the first half but something was amiss in the second half and that last lift was not good. They got pretty lucky with the judging there. H/D had a strong skate but I still hate that music, it’s so annoying and I find myself appreciating their athleticism but totally checked out of the performance. Performances of the night for me were Green/Parsons and Hawayek/Baker. I also really enjoyed Katarina/Jeff and Bratti/Somerville. 
 

I do think C/B winning solidifies both top teams splitting the team event which means TPTB have a tough choice with likely only one lady. Alysa makes the most sense but I wouldn’t be surprised if they felt more comfortable with Mariah (although I don’t). 
 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by healthnut

[Avaleigh]

So happy for Madison and Evan. All the people I want to win are winning, it's awesome! I actually am warming up to their FD. I was on the fence about it at first but I like that they went for something different. Pretty gutsy to not go the safe/traditional route in an Olympic year.

1 hour ago, healthnut said:

I  do think C/B winning solidifies both top teams splitting the team event which means TPTB have a tough choice with likely only one lady. Alysa makes the most sense but I wouldn’t be surprised if they felt more comfortable with Mariah (although I don’t). 

Alysa makes sense on paper and I'm sure she'll be chosen. I'm not sure though that she made the best case for herself with that fall in the short. On top of that they'd be passing over the reigning national champion. Still, I can see the team preferring the skater who has the more difficult program. 

[Mellowyellow]

International judges seem to dislike Alysa and give her piddly GOE. I'm not sure she'd be a safe choice for the team event. They've scored Mariah a lot more favorably in terms of GOE.

[Jillibean]

So, so happy for Madi and Evan; they are my faves and I am thrilled with this outcome. That lift that Madi missed and Evan saved just goes to show what a strong partner he is. He yanked her up to the right spot (on his own thigh, no less) so quickly, and while it didn't look perfect, it also didn't look like a total miss, which is what it almost was. She was clearly a bit off-balance the whole time and they lost a fair amount of GOE points on it; without that slip their FD score probably would have been quite close to H/D. I'm curious to see if the international judges feel the same way if both teams execute well. I hope so. 

That said, I almost felt bad for Madison Hubbell, watching her cry through the medal ceremony and watching Zach try to comfort her. I hope that it was more that it was their last Nats and less that they didn't win their last Nats. Also, I get that people in dance partnerships are very close and touchy/feely, but I can't help but note how much Zach cuddles and kisses Madison, especially on her face and neck, for people who used to date, are no longer dating, and are in fact engaged to/in serious relationships with other people. 

Hawayek and Baker really recaptured their own magic last night. I hope they have a better sense now of what their wheelhouse is and stick to it going forward. 

And it was impossible not to feel happy watching Ashley's reaction to winning, even while knowing that it really came down to which team fell the least. Have they named their Olympics pairs team yet? They might as well put in Alexa and Brandon; I don't think there's anything to lose there since both of the more floaty, beautiful pairs are gorgeous when they're on but fall constantly. Alexa has the higher name recognition, so.

Very curious to see what they choose to do with the ladies for the team. Alysa is theoretically capable of more, but she's missed more triple axels than she's landed in competition this season, from what I've seen. And on a shallow note, her hairstyle with the bangs is really not working for me.

[absnow54]

24 minutes ago, Jillibean said:

Also, I get that people in dance partnerships are very close and touchy/feely, but I can't help but note how much Zach cuddles and kisses Madison, especially on her face and neck, for people who used to date, are no longer dating, and are in fact engaged to/in serious relationships with other people. 

I think they’re going for the Virtue/Moir strategy. My husband asked if they were together, and I explained that they were seeing other people, but the couple staring off in middle distance while sitting next to each other (Chock/Bates) were.

27 minutes ago, Jillibean said:

And on a shallow note, her hairstyle with the bangs is really not working for me.

An Olympic year is not the time to experiment with regrettable bangs! It’s a big reminder that she’s a 16 year old.  
 

[Tippi]

When watching Nationals I like to look for hidden gems--moments of beautiful music, interesting choreography, or finding a skater or pair that I've never seen before and find delightful.  I hadn't seen Hawayek/Baker's FD this year and I thought it was exquisite.  The music, costumes, choreography, and performance were all first rate.  I also had never seen Wolfkostin/Chen and I will definitely be keeping an eye on them.  Jeffrey Chen moves so well!  I liked Chan/Howe's speed and energy.  Cain-Gribble/LeDuc delivered two solid and artistic programs, I'm very happy for them.  Loved Isabeau--return of the baby ballerinas?  I've only seen clips of Ilia's SP and was very impressed with what I saw.  I don't like programs set to Hallelujah, but this music suits Mariah to a tee. 

All in all, a very good Nationals so far!

 

[HartofDixie]

Ashley Cain-Gribble and Timothy LeDuc
Alexa Knierim and Brandon Frazier named to the Olympic team.

No official announcement made yet for dance.

[specialj67]

39 minutes ago, Tippi said:

When watching Nationals I like to look for hidden gems--moments of beautiful music, interesting choreography, or finding a skater or pair that I've never seen before and find delightful.  I hadn't seen Hawayek/Baker's FD this year and I thought it was exquisite.  The music, costumes, choreography, and performance were all first rate.  I also had never seen Wolfkostin/Chen and I will definitely be keeping an eye on them.  Jeffrey Chen moves so well!  I liked Chan/Howe's speed and energy.  Cain-Gribble/LeDuc delivered two solid and artistic programs, I'm very happy for them.  Loved Isabeau--return of the baby ballerinas?  I've only seen clips of Ilia's SP and was very impressed with what I saw.  I don't like programs set to Hallelujah, but this music suits Mariah to a tee. 

All in all, a very good Nationals so far!

 

Yes! I think the free dance at US nationals is my fave event because it’s the only one with a real depth of good and great teams, many which also perform consistently well internationally. 

[HartofDixie]

USA’s Ice Dance Olympic Team

Madison Chock / Evan Bates
Kaitlin Hawayek / Jean-Luc Baker
Madison Hubbell / Zachary Donohue
 

[Rootbeer]

3 hours ago, Jillibean said:

Very curious to see what they choose to do with the ladies for the team. Alysa is theoretically capable of more, but she's missed more triple axels than she's landed in competition this season, from what I've seen. And on a shallow note, her hairstyle with the bangs is really not working for me.

The bangs look like she cut them herself: with a butter knife, in the dark, without a mirror, while drunk.  Really not good.  I hope someone is able to help her fix that situation before the Olympics.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Jason Brown may not have a quad, but he has so many other skills that other skaters do not have.  He racks up a lot of points for all of the extra things he can do in his programs.  And outside of Nathan and a couple of others, he scores pretty close to some of the other competitors.  I think he brings something really nice to men's figure skating, imo.  

Yes but weren't we just lamenting the fact that US Ladies have fallen so far out of contention in international competition? And isn't that because in the US they are still rewarding artistry over technical merit? It's the same reason we keep sending Jason Brown to international competitions even though he can't win. It's just not that world anymore. If you're only here for the aesthetics, what's the point of having a competition? He's the Mariah Bell of the Men's discipline. Beautiful skater, no chance in hell of winning Olympic or World Gold. No chance of a medal at all if not for the Team event (which I think is stupid anyway. I mean, I understand why it was created, but skating is not a team event.)

[annzeepark914]

Well, if Ilia Malinin outscores Jason today, Jason won't be going to the O's. I love JB's skating, but🤞Ilia's LP holds up & he joins Vincent & Nathan in Beijing. We need his quads!

[absnow54]

Is Ilia Malinin eligible? I missed the NBC coverage, but the commentator on the video I watched was only talking about Junior Worlds for him. He’s local, so I’m excited to see his career take off. 

[Rootbeer]

12 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Is Ilia Malinin eligible? I missed the NBC coverage, but the commentator on the video I watched was only talking about Junior Worlds for him. He’s local, so I’m excited to see his career take off. 

Malinin is 17 and was born in Virginia, so there's no reason to think he wouldn't be eligible.

I absolutely love Jason Brown's skating, so complex and beautiful.  However, pretty skating doesn't win medals unless there are jumps to back them up.  I wish things were different, but, in terms of opportunity for placement at the Olympics, Brown is just not the best choice.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Rootbeer

[Lady Whistleup]

29 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Yes but weren't we just lamenting the fact that US Ladies have fallen so far out of contention in international competition? And isn't that because in the US they are still rewarding artistry over technical merit? It's the same reason we keep sending Jason Brown to international competitions even though he can't win. It's just not that world anymore. If you're only here for the aesthetics, what's the point of having a competition? He's the Mariah Bell of the Men's discipline. Beautiful skater, no chance in hell of winning Olympic or World Gold. No chance of a medal at all if not for the Team event (which I think is stupid anyway. I mean, I understand why it was created, but skating is not a team event.)

The difference is (I think) Jason is trying to improve his jump content. He is trying that quad even if he can't really land it. Mariah and Karen Chen seem content with their triple-double combo. I THINK the USFSA sees Jason trying to land that quad.

[alexa]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Yes but weren't we just lamenting the fact that US Ladies have fallen so far out of contention in international competition? And isn't that because in the US they are still rewarding artistry over technical merit? It's the same reason we keep sending Jason Brown to international competitions even though he can't win. It's just not that world anymore. If you're only here for the aesthetics, what's the point of having a competition? He's the Mariah Bell of the Men's discipline. Beautiful skater, no chance in hell of winning Olympic or World Gold. No chance of a medal at all if not for the Team event (which I think is stupid anyway. I mean, I understand why it was created, but skating is not a team event.)

But I think you are thinking that Jason scores way far out from the front runners.  With a clean program he really doesn't.  He won't win gold, but he does place pretty high for someone without a quad, and often scores higher than those from other countries with a quad that do not have the extra elements he has.  I agree that it is important to have technical content, but he really isn't one of those skaters falling way behind.  He has managed to stay relevant, imo.

[absnow54]

Yes, Jason is a solid Top 10 skater and made it to the Grand Prix finals this year. He’s had his Olympics chance, so I wouldn’t be heartbroken if he doesn’t make it, but someone like Ilia has very little international experience at a senior level. I could see them skipping him for the Olympic team, but putting him on the team for Worlds. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by absnow54

[emmawoodhouse]

12 minutes ago, alexa said:

But I think you are thinking that Jason scores way far out from the front runners.  With a clean program he really doesn't.  He won't win gold, but he does place pretty high for someone without a quad, and often scores higher than those from other countries with a quad that do not have the extra elements he has.  I agree that it is important to have technical content, but he really isn't one of those skaters falling way behind.  He has managed to stay relevant, imo.

It's also of note to remember that Jason scores very well with international judges.