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David T. Cole

Gracepoint Vs. Broadchurch

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Do we need to use spoiler tags in here? Or is the fact that it's a spoiler thread warning enough to those who don't want to know?

Publicized info about how Gracepoint will go: (spoiler tagged to be safe)

From what I hear, Gracepoint will follow the plot of Broadchurch fairly closely. Last I read, the cast does not yet know how the season will end, so it is possible (likely, really) that there will be a different resolution.

Edited by Slovenly Muse

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I'm going to assume that anyone looking at this thread has seen Broadchurch.

Once Gracepoint starts airing, it will be easier to compare, obviously. Right now, I'm dubious about how different it will be.

Having it be anyone other than Joe really cuts into Ellie's story. Her arc in Broadchurch, from firmly believing that no one she knows could have done it, to finding out that it was the person closest to her, was powerful and devastating. It's a big part of why Olivia Colman (and the show) have been showered with awards. It would be easier to change details like whether or not Tom knew than changing the killer.

I suspect that a lot of the claims that it will be different are meant to attract fans and reassure them that it will be worth their time to watch a remake.

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You make a good point, Kathira. But of course it would not be totally unheard of for an American remake to completely miss the point of what made the original so great while trying to put their own spin on it! I do hope you're right, though.

Usually where I find remakes go wrong is that Americans tend to cast actors who are "prettier" than the original cast, but less talented, causing a lot of the emotional weight to be lost. With the cast they've assembled for Gracepoint, though, I am not worried about this at all!

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I wonder if they would change who the killer turned out to be to surprise viewers who had already seen the original.  I'm really looking forward to seeing this story unfold in a more lenghtly format.  Is the show getting a full 22 episode season or a shortened one?

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There might be changes in sub-plots, but I can't see any changes in the identity of the killer. 

I can't see Anna Gunn taking the role of Ellie Miller if all the acting challenges are ripped away.

I heard it was going to be a ten episode season, 2 more than the original Broadchurch.  I heard it from this article: 

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/02/14/first-photo-david-tennant-anna-gunn-broadchurch-gracepoint/

Edited by sugarbaker design

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Yes, it's ten episodes. They are getting near-ish to the end of filming now (and about a week or so after they do, Broadchurch 2 starts filming). Fox have also expressed interest in and put plans in place for Gracepoint to be a long-running show, though of course that depends on how well the first season does.

We should know more about Gracepoint and when it will air during Upfronts next month.

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I had no intention of checking out this remake but will probably do so now because David Tennant will also be in this version. I hope that's not distracting. It's difficult to watch a remake and not have the original (if done well) overshadow it, but I think it will be even harder with the same lead actor.

I think it would be interesting if they switched up the ending like some of you are speculating.

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Just saw that Euros Lyn just arrived to direct an episode of Gracepoint.  Since James Strong and Euros Lyn directed all of Broadchurch and will do only part of Gracepoint, well, it would take a far more TV-analytical mind than I to see, when we get to compare finished products, how that affects the way the story moves and the tone of it.

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Really it is the involvement of Eros and James in addition to Chris and DT that made me more confident in the quality of the remake.

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I think that having Euros Lyn and James Strong directing and Chris Chibnall writing served to convince David that he would be in good hands doing Gracepoint (as well as Broadchurch originally). In addition to Broadchurch, Euros directed his regeneration episodes on Doctor Who (as well as many others). James Strong also directed him on Doctor Who and United. Doing an American accent is a risk for him, and I'm sure he was happier knowing that the production would be high quality, with directors he knew and trusted.

 

As I'm sure you all have seen, Broadchurch won BAFTAs tonight for Best Drama Series, Best Actress for Olivia Colman and Best Supporting Actor for David Bradley. The Day of the Doctor won the Audience Appreciation award. Even if David wasn't nominated personally, at least productions he was involved in won. he makes everything better. Hopefully Gracepoint will be similarly excellent.

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Ok, having watched the trailer for Gracepoint, I have to say it looks really close to Broadchurch.

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The trailer is pretty much entirely material from the first episode, and the first episode is the same for both. As the show goes on it separates from the original, with new major characters and a different ending.

Not sure if it was such a good idea to do it that way, or to base the trailer on the first episode material.

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As the show goes on it separates from the original, with new major characters and a different ending.

Not sure if it was such a good idea to do it that way, or to base the trailer on the first episode material.

 

 

We don't know yet what "that way" means.  I've seen the character list of Gracepoint and I don't see any new major characters.  "Different ending" doesn't necessarily mean different murderer, it couldn't be any more vague.

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They haven't released the full character list. I know the names of the new character(s) and storylines, but I'm not going to spoil anyone (it's important to the production that no one leaks any spoilers so I wouldn't, I just don't want people not watching because they think it's going to be a carbon copy of Broadchurch).

Just trust me, it is different. I don't know exactly how different because I haven't read all the scripts but it's not the same.

Edited by Eozostrodon

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Well thanks for the info.  Now that I know that Anna Gunn will be cheated out of the challenging material that Olivia Colman had to play with, I will stay away.

 

Sorry, I am confused - where is this "I know what happens to Ellie so I won't watch" stuff is coming from? Nothing in my two posts referenced the Ellie character or her storyline in any way. Or are you saying you read a spoiler about the Ellie character elsewhere and thus know what kind of material she has? To the best of my knowledge that is not true.

 

The storyline/character I referred to

is entirely part of Hardy's storyline, and not connected to Ellie or her storyline.

Edited by Eozostrodon

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I think people are concerned that having a different killer will mean that Anna Gunn will not face the acting challenges that Olivia Colman did, in terms of finding out that her husband was the killer. I am hopeful that everyone will have plenty of chewy scenes regardless of the end result in Gracepoint. Some of the hints I have been seeing around about Gracepoint are making me excited to see the changes in the characters and general developments.

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I'd prefer if the the bones of the plot remained the same, meaning same victim, same investigators, same killer. If the writers would like to beef up some subplots and characterizations, I'm all for it.

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I saw "Broadchurch" and had been intrigued by the concept of "Gracepoint" and figured I'd watch it. But I saw an ad for it for the first time last night and had a surprisingly violent, visceral negative reaction to seeing the same lines and scenes with different actors. My mind was all, "That's not Ellie! That's not how Beth said it! No! Wrong!" It was like a freaky pale echo, or seeing something through an aquarium. It felt so off. So I don't think I'm going to be able to watch it after all.

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I've heard Souris' reaction, although perhaps less vehemently, from others.  Now I know that most of the US population did not see Braodchurch, but for those who did, I hope further promotion will separate Gracepoint from it somewhat.  Show us something newish.

 

Yes, I'm taking everyone at their word that there are changes.  And like a play, I don't mind seeing different actors handle the same lines.

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Just saw the first ad. Wow, I was not expecting it to be almost exactly the same. Almost every quick flash was recognizable, and some of the scenes even looked as if they were shot the exact same way. It's...baffling. 

Why would I watch anything other than the last episode at this point? Such an odd choice.

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Tennant hid his Scottish accent into a blah accent rather than American. Still a question how he will sound.

 

The one change I could see if they were doing a paint-by-numbers copy of Broadchurch would be that the killer is

her son rather than her husband

.

 

 

 

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Why are there spoiler tags in a spoiler thread? Especially when the mod posted in the opening post that no spoiler tags are necessary?

 

Just saw the first ad. Wow, I was not expecting it to be almost exactly the same. Almost every quick flash was recognizable, and some of the scenes even looked as if they were shot the exact same way. It's...baffling.
Why would I watch anything other than the last episode at this point? Such an odd choice.

 

I don't think it's an odd choice. They're remaking an award-winning and critically acclaimed show from another country that most Americans have not seen. Anyone who has seen Broadchurch might appreciate that they've kept so much that was good about it. Plus, those who have seen it know how it plays out and how it ends, so they shouldn't be watching a murder mystery remake expecting surprises. (If there are some surprises, they could be considered a bonus) Those who haven't seen it won't care.

 

When does this air and on what channel? 

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FYI Gracepoint will air in the UK (on one of the ITV channels) in the autumn, with episodes airing shortly after they air in the US. (There may be a delay of a week or two, it's not confirmed.)

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I thought "Broadchurch" was superbly acted and produced.  But I hated it, and thought it was vastly overpraised in the media. I don't mind dark material but I loathed the cheap surprise of the final episode. I thought the writing was weak, the village was full of vile caricatures, and that the female detective (no matter how wonderfully acted) may have been the worst fictional detective I've ever seen.

 

I only watched for David Tennant. The pop-goes-the-weasel switcheroo revealing the real killer had me livid, since the show was not in fact a real classic mystery -- as it cheated the outcome, there were no 'clues' in any of the early episodes as to the real culprit, and even the theme of not seeing what's in front of your face ("How could you not know?") wasn't even enunciated until the final few episodes.

 

I keep seeing the ads for this on Fox and it looks like it was recast and reproduced nearly shot for shot. Yet I'll probably tune in out of morbid curiosity and out of loyalty to David Tennant, hating myself all the while.

 

I'll forgive them a lot, however, if they actually did as has been rumored, and wrote a better culprit (and ending).

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I just hope the minister remains an Episcopalian priest.  The only other Episcopalian priest character I know of on TV is Father Jamison from The Leftovers...and he's a bit of a nutter (as the British would say).

 

Provided, of course, they don't turn the Episcopalian priest into some kind of murdering pederast.

 

Then by all means change that character's denomination or religion.

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I just hope the minister remains an Episcopalian priest.  The only other Episcopalian priest character I know of on TV is Father Jamison from The Leftovers...and he's a bit of a nutter (as the British would say).

 

Provided, of course, they don't turn the Episcopalian priest into some kind of murdering pederast.

 

Then by all means change that character's denomination or religion.

 

Now that you mention it, I'm curious how they'll handle that storyline. Generally speaking, British small towns tend to be more religiously homogeneous than American ones. In Broadchurch, the CoE church was central to the community, even if few people actually attended. We didn't really get a sense of other denominations in town. On the other hand, a similar small town in the U.S. is going to have quite a few different denominations, even if each church itself is small. Maybe Catholic, Methodist, Presbyterian, Baptist, and a few indies. An Episcopal church probably wouldn't have many members, if it even existed in Gracepoint proper instead of in a neighboring town. (This isn't meant to denigrate Episcopal churches or any other denomination -- I'm just going on sheer numbers.)  And since American small towns are more religiously fragmented, I can't see it working in the same way as Broadchurch with the Vicar and his one church being a focal point of the community. The writers have probably figured out a way around this since the Vicar's storyline was so important to the original, but I'm curious how they'll make it work given the differences in how religious communities function in the U.S.

 

All that aside, I'm trying to stay optimistic about Gracepoint, and I'll give it a chance. But I'm probably not the only one who grinds her teeth and mutters "Ellie!" when I see the promos. Anna Gunn is a marvelous actor, sure, but I already miss Olivia Colman. Hmph.

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Among other reasons, perhaps this is why the title was changed.
 

...Generally speaking, British small towns tend to be more religiously homogeneous than American ones. In Broadchurch, the CoE church was central to the community, even if few people actually attended.


Hence Broadchurch.
 

...a similar small town in the U.S. is going to have quite a few different denominations, even if each church itself is small...And since American small towns are more religiously fragmented, I can't see it working in the same way as Broadchurch with the Vicar and his one church being a focal point of the community.


In contrast, this church would be just one point among many, albeit a point of grace.

Or perhaps the different ecclesiastical environments have nothing to do with the title.

 

But I do agree that the American town would likely have more denominations and there wouldn't necessarily be a default denomination/church.

 

By the way, on the subject of religion, I watched a few of those 1-2 minute Gracepoint preview clips that discuss a character, or the town, etc.  Not sure if this is a spoiler since it's about Gracepoint, not Broadchurch.  

By the look of the emblem on the church sign, it's an Episcopalian church.  Not only that, but the Episcopalian priest is played by Kenny the Nazi from Breaking Bad.


 

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These threads are all converging in comparing the two, but I figured I'd place this here, to be safe. It's a fabulous podcast and articulates the importance of "place" that I think will be more lacking in Gracepoint. I really like the description of "Gracepoint is standard def Broadchurch".

 

http://talkingtvwithryanandryan.libsyn.com/talking-tv-with-ryan-and-ryan-episode-125-gracepoint-vs-broadchurch

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I'm thinking they change the killer to Miller's son too. The story runs exactly the same until the end. Tom(?) follows them to the shack and sees Danny getting affection  from his father that he should be (he's not perceiving it as sexual), sneaks up behind hm and kills in a jealous rage. It also preserves the "How could you not know!" angle.

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I'm thinking they change the killer to Miller's son too. The story runs exactly the same until the end. Tom(?) follows them to the shack and sees Danny getting affection  from his father that he should be (he's not perceiving it as sexual), sneaks up behind hm and kills in a jealous rage. It also preserves the "How could you not know!" angle.

This is the ending that would have made the most sense.  Maybe that's why they are remaking it.

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Not sure why USA insists on remaking British shows, Britain does tv so much better.

Wish my DirectV would get British television channels.

BTW, David Tennant with an American accent is wrong on so many levels!!

Broadchurch was awesome, I guess they hoped most people didn't see it.

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American TV is a for-profit business. If a good story does well in another country it is good business sense to look into adapting it for an American audience. Networks don't air foreign shows because they can't make money doing that. Americans won't watch shows with subtitles or hard-to-understand regional accents and dialects. Shows heavy with foreign cultural references that American can't relate to also have a hard time finding an audience.

 

There is just as much bad stuff on British TV as on American TV.

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There's a difference between adaptation and copy. This, so far, is an exact copy.

 

And foreign audiences watch American shows with all their cultural references all the time and shows are still hugely popular overseas. And I'm talking about way bigger cultural differences than US/UK.

 

Why wouldn't they make money showing Broadchurch? Advert money goes to Fox anyways, and I can't imagine DVDs are bringing in that much these days. Just seems really redundant. I already have the Broadchurch DVD set, I'll just wait and see if the last couple of eps are any different and catch them online if they are.

 

It's extremely lazy, creatively. And yeah, does give the impression that US network channels don't believe that the American audience is at all interested in watching anything not made in the good old USA. Well, if you say they're right, I guess they might have a point. I actually think it would be cool if foreign shows got broadcast as they are - isn't it interesting to look at a classic murder mystery embedded in a British background? Or a Danish/Swedish police drama? I personally find it fascinating to see how different countries work with these established genres, to see the cultural differences and similarities.

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American TV is a for-profit business. If a good story does well in another country it is good business sense to look into adapting it for an American audience. Networks don't air foreign shows because they can't make money doing that. Americans won't watch shows with subtitles or hard-to-understand regional accents and dialects. Shows heavy with foreign cultural references that American can't relate to also have a hard time finding an audience.

 

There is just as much bad stuff on British TV as on American TV.

 

Oh, I would assume there's just as much bad everywhere--why would American TV be unique in that. But, I would also say that there's a difference between adaption and copying, but I've probably flogged that poor dead horse enough at this point.

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Did Gracepoint's poobahs say that they're changing the ending or that they're changing the identity of the killer?

 

The two are not the same.

 

Broadchurch ended with the lighting ceremony on the cliffs of the beach.

 

On a sort of related note.  One thing that struck me as very odd about Broadchurch was that the police wouldn't permit Danny's body to be buried until after his killer was caught, even though they didn't have any specific forensic need to keep it.  I wonder if they'll change that.

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Fox can't air Broadchurch because BBC America acquired the broadcast rights and has already aired it.

 

BBC America and PBS air foreign shows and the viewer numbers are not anywhere near as the viewership of the commercial networks. Americans who watch foreign shows are a small minority of all potential American viewers. It doesn't matter that lots of people in other countries watch American shows. That does not influence the viewing habits of domestic viewers. The commercial networks have market researched this stuff to death. If they thought enough people would watch foreign shows to make it profitable they would be broadcasting foreign shows.

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Because I was underwhelmed by the pilot I decided to read the spoilers and watch knowing who the killer is (if they don't change it, of course).  Can someone explain to me why Danny was standing on the cliff crying at the beginning?  Or wasn't that Danny?

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I don't understand why they didn't just call this "Groundhog Day" and be done with it. This is a very pale imitation. Broadchurch was so mesmerizing because of the overpowering atmosphere evident in every shot. Gracepoint is merely a stand-in. I was curious to see it once, just to compare, but I see no reason to come back. It's already been done much better and I've already seen it.

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American network television does not air foreign made shows, period. It's very common in the rest of the world but not here. For a lot of reasons but mostly it's all about the benjamins. And here's a whole article explaining why that was prompted specifically by Gracepoint/Broadchurch.

 

http://jimcofer.com/personal/2014/10/03/why-us-networks-remake-foreign-shows/

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Fine. If they'll make more money this way, that's fine. But this first ep felt like an arthouse project - shot for shot remake. Different actors, looking extremely similar, reciting the exact same lines of dialogue. Or in David Tennant's case, the same actor reciting the same dialogue, but in a different accent. How freaking lazy are these people? Aren't the "writers" of this show embarrassed they get credit for these eps?

Why not make it your own? Why not choose a slightly different town, or actors who don't look like they could act in a lookalike contest with the original actors? Why not give it your own twist?

Even if they change the killer, that's like me picking any Agatha Christie story and just randomly choosing another killer. Doesn't make it anything but a pale imitation.

 

Also, the argument that's been mentioned that Americans won't watch foreign shows because they couldn't possibly relate to them because of those pesky cultural differences, doesn't paint a very flattering picture of Americans. I'm not saying I necessarily believe it to be true, but it's been brought up here.

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Not sure why people think it's impossible to enjoy bothversions of a show.  I enjoyed Gracepoint although I have seen Broadchurch many times.

 

I liked that the change in cause of death widened the pool of suspects.

 

Was puzzled by the reference to "balleen gray whales" .  Yes, gray whales are balleen whales, but it's not part of their "name."

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Also, the argument that's been mentioned that Americans won't watch foreign shows because they couldn't possibly relate to them because of those pesky cultural differences, doesn't paint a very flattering picture of Americans. I'm not saying I necessarily believe it to be true, but it's been brought up here.

 

Not only does it paint an unflattering picture, but how do they know this to be true if no one has done it yet? They can do all the market research they want, but until someone tries it they have no real data to compare it to. There was a time when networks thought nobody would watch a show where a married couple shared the same bed. There was also a time when it was thought no one would watch a serialized show with long-running mythology. Look at what's all the rage right now, almost all of them were thought to be recipes for failure at one time. All it takes is someone to be bold enough to test the theory and see if it holds water.

 

Of course, there can be two versions of the same thing and can both be enjoyable, but to assume that no one will watch the original because it's not American seems a bit narrow minded to me. Granted, I'm not sure Broadchurch is a show that would appeal to a large network audience, but not due to it's foreign nature and funny accents. It's a slow burn and many people don't have the patience for that sort of storytelling. It'll be interesting to see how Gracepoint is received since it's no different in that regard. I just hope that if it doesn't do well they don't chalk it up to people having no interest in something that was originally foreign.

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From the Pilot episode thread:

I would certainly appreciate more exposition on the crime. Broadchurch, you ask me, was pretty vague on the entire circumstance. With luck, the reveal won't come out of nowhere this time around. JMHO.

ITA. I enjoyed Broadchurch because the acting was so good, and it was a very atmospheric show (like an English 'cozy' mystery) but the actual plot? Eh. There were a ton of good suspects - which made me think that was one really creepy English village - and any one of them could have been picked at random. That the killer was someone who was not a previous or obvious suspect left me a little deflated.

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I just hope the characters are more likeable.  I found it hard to sympathize with anyone in Broadchurch because virtually everyone ranged from annoying to obnoxious.  The only character I felt bad for was Jack the newspaper guy, and that was partly because David Bradley is such an engaging actor.  His American counterpart is just a void so far.

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I'm thinking they change the killer to Miller's son too. The story runs exactly the same until the end. Tom(?) follows them to the shack and sees Danny getting affection  from his father that he should be (he's not perceiving it as sexual), sneaks up behind hm and kills in a jealous rage. It also preserves the "How could you not know!" angle.

This is the ending that made the most sense to me.. The a Broadchurch ending was a twist, but left far more questions unanswered than the son doing it.

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