LGBT Themes, Stories And Characters On TV

[Chaos Theory]

I am not sure where else to put this because I don't know if it has a topic or not.  But if you have access to Apple Plus  you should watch Visible On Tv  It is a very good docuseries on LGTBQ representation on television since nearly the beginning of tv.  And how representation and the lack of it can change a community.  

Of course it is not perfect.  It has its problems.  It deals heavily with Kurt on Glee but doesn't even mention Santana.  But it also brings to focus a lot of struggles people in the entertainment industry had coming out and how it changed them and entertainment forever when they finally did.   

 

[starri]

I know FreeForm has been very inclusive of queer content for a long time, but I was still really surprised that their offering for Valentine's Day was a rom-com about two guys.  

While it was mostly a standard basic cable rom-com, I ended up finding it really charming.  The two guys (Cute But Relatable and Incredibly Hot) had real chemistry.  And I guess I was expecting it to be Hallmark-y where we'd get one fairly chaste kiss at the end and no more affection, but it turned out....not so much.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, starri said:

I know FreeForm has been very inclusive of queer content for a long time, but I was still really surprised that their offering for Valentine's Day was a rom-com about two guys.  

While it was mostly a standard basic cable rom-com, I ended up finding it really charming.  The two guys (Cute But Relatable and Incredibly Hot) had real chemistry.  And I guess I was expecting it to be Hallmark-y where we'd get one fairly chaste kiss at the end and no more affection, but it turned out....not so much.

What was it called?  I would have recorded it had I known.

[starri]

9 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

What was it called?  I would have recorded it had I known.

The Thing About Harry.

If you have a Hulu subscription, it's available there.

[Irlandesa]

5 minutes ago, starri said:

The Thing About Harry.

 

Thank you!  I guess I know what I'm watching today since it's On Demand.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Irlandesa

[starri]

I hope you enjoy it.  I did, and REALLY needed some Light and Fluffy yesterday.

[giovannif7]

3 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am not sure where else to put this because I don't know if it has a topic or not.  But if you have access to Apple Plus  you should watch Visible On Tv  It is a very good docuseries on LGTBQ representation on television since nearly the beginning of tv.  And how representation and the lack of it can change a community.  

Of course it is not perfect.  It has its problems.  It deals heavily with Kurt on Glee but doesn't even mention Santana.  But it also brings to focus a lot of struggles people in the entertainment industry had coming out and how it changed them and entertainment forever when they finally did.   

 

I binged the 5 episodes yesterday, and found it very informative, especially for those too young to remember the entire period covered. As noted, though, there is too much time devoted to a few specific aspects - several topics are brought up more than once, and there's a disproportionate amount of time focused on reality TV, most notably the Kardashians. There's also significant, groundbreaking programming that was completely ignored, like the 1984-1989 Showtime sitcom Brothers (available on Youtube), which featured two out gay core characters and many LGBT storylines over the 5 season run, and aired more than a decade before Ellen's "The Puppy Episode" and the debut of Will & Grace. The docuseries is well worth the view time, but isn't the comprehensive overview I was hoping for.

[Chaos Theory]

There were of course other tv shows but Visible focused in large part on wide released ones.   Glee was a cultural phenomenon.  I know a lot of straight people who fell in love with Kurt.   The same with Will & Grace.     Where for better and worse shows like Queer as Folk and The L Word did that inside the LGBT community and even made strides outside as well.   I actually heard some of my straight colleagues at work whispering how they loved “those gay boys on Queer as Folk.”   

And Reality tv also for better and worse has allowed for more immersive experience of gay people into straight households.    

of course there have been shows I would have included more.   And I am not a huge fan of reality tv but for whatever reason I don’t understand it has become a cultural phenomenon all its own so including reality tv does track for me.  

Edited February 17, 2020 by Chaos Theory

[starri]

26 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

And Reality tv also for better and worse has allowed for more immersive experience of gay people into straight households.  

I'm saying this without a hint of irony:  I 100% credit The Real World as a large contributor to the increased acceptance amongst Gens X and Y.

[Irlandesa]

13 hours ago, starri said:

I hope you enjoy it.  I did, and REALLY needed some Light and Fluffy yesterday.

I enjoyed it for the most part.  Good chemistry.  Good angst.  But it pissed me off in the end.

Spoiler

They had Sam continue to be apologized to by Harry (twice) and Stasia and yet I felt he was the asshole both times.  Harry practically threw himself Sam incessantly only for Sam to say "nope" so I don't get why Sam was the wronged party.

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Irlandesa

[Hiyo]

Quote

I 100% credit The Real World as a large contributor to the increased acceptance amongst Gens X and Y.

Especially Pedro.

[starri]

14 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I enjoyed it for the most part.  Good chemistry.  Good angst.  But it pissed me off in the end.

  Reveal spoiler

They had Sam continue to be apologized to by Harry (twice) and Stasia and yet I felt he was the asshole both times.  Harry practically threw himself Sam incessantly only for Sam to say "nope" so I don't get why Sam was the wronged party.

 

Spoiler

I honestly expected to feel that as well, and was surprised when I realized I didn't.  Harry was smitten with Sam clearly from jump, but rather than admit that, ditches Sam, and even when they rekindle their friendship, pursues other relationships.  He finally gets close to it, but can't actually say the words directly.  Then, despite common sense telling both Stasia and him that hooking up is a bad idea--and even being directly told that Harry is in love with Sam and warned that they're both going to blow of their friendships in Stasia's case--they decide to see each other when neither actually seems particularly into the other.

Then Harry finally does find the balls to tell Sam how he feels, he omits the crucial information until after Sam has finally allowed himself to be vulnerable and trust that Harry is actually going to stay.  Harry then immediately turns around and does exactly what Sam was always afraid of, and tells him that he's leaving.

Yeah, I thought Sam had every right to be pissed.

 

[possibilities]

My problem is that I don't understand why there seems to be some fantasy floating around the zeitgeist, about a former bully falling in love for you and being your OTP.

 

[Guest]

I highly recommend The Queen which is now playing on Netflix. It's a somewhat newly restored 1968 documentary about a drag queen pageant in New York.  These gals took real, serious risks (it was illegal then) doing this pageant (even though those risks weren't evident in the film.) Also, make sure to Google Harlow (the Philly contestant) after watching it. She's had a  mostly uncelebrated fascinating - and trailblazing - life. 

[starri]

Blowing my mind with in the last week, the Disney Channel's reboot of Ducktales revealed that one of the recurring characters has two dads.  I know Disney Channel has had some queer content before, and that Steven Universe in particular brazed a trail for queer representation in animation, but this is still a Disney cartoon.

And the show's creator was willing to admit that two background characters don't really count as representation, and says they have more foreground stuff in the pipeline.

[methodwriter85]

On 2/17/2020 at 5:57 PM, possibilities said:

My problem is that I don't understand why there seems to be some fantasy floating around the zeitgeist, about a former bully falling in love for you and being your OTP.

 

You'd be surprised. It kind of falls into the "converting the straight boy" umbrella of gay boy fantasies.

Edited April 14, 2020 by methodwriter85

[Hiyo]

Is it the gay version of "taming the bad boy" for straight women?

[giovannif7]

For those who haven't yet seen it, there's a couple of items in the new "Farewell Sarah Jane" story (written by Russell T. Davies) that fit here. Near the start, (at :54), former companions Tegan and Nyssa are referred to as "a nice couple from Australia." Then, in his monologue (starting at 9:58), Luke (Tommy Knight) has a quiet coming out moment as he describes how Sarah Jane encouraged him to connect with Sanjay, his husband, to whom he has been married for five years. Lovely confirmations for fans of the show.

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by giovannif7

[methodwriter85]

On 4/14/2020 at 2:07 PM, Hiyo said:

Is it the gay version of "taming the bad boy" for straight women?

Essentially, yeah. They're doing that storyline on Sex Education, a teen t.v. series in Netflix right now. It also basically goes into the general belief that homophobic bullies are usually gay themselves.

[giovannif7]

Former Angel, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. actor J. August Richards comes out in advance of his new role as a gay father in NBC's Council Of Dads.

[Luckylyn]

So Hallmark’s Love Under the Olive Tree included a subtle same sex romantic b plot.  Some people are fine with it and others are not happy.  This is a huge step for Hallmark regardless of how it was received.

I didn’t mind the hint of a potential same sex romance between the friends.  It is not unusual for the friends of the leads to get a little romantic subplot of their own in Hallmark movies.  I was disappointed at how it was handled.  They implied something romantic was developing, but the body language between to two men was so restrained.   There’s a scene where they kinda stiffly sit next to each other on the hayride which may or may not be a date.  The faces say spark, the body language says “not too close.”  The best friend’s body language with the female lead is more demonstrative than with the guy he’s supposed to be falling for.  Plus, when the male lead mistakenly thinks she’s dating her best friend his friend corrects him super vaguely in multiple scenes.   He just insists they aren’t a couple.  He never simply says “He’s gay” or ”He’s with me” which would have cleared things up much more clearly.  So there’s a hint of a romance there, but the story contorts itself to avoid being explicit about it.  The only conclusion is that we’re supposed to think they are both closeted otherwise why would his friend not know about the guy his buddy is apparently interested in.  The female lead seems to know her friend is gay with her “I’m not his type” line but there’s no scene of him confiding in her he’s falling for anyone, but they did include a scene earlier of him saying he hadn’t meet anyone he was interested in yet.  So there’s representation but it’s somewhat regressive.  It’s okay to have gay characters, but it has to be hush hush.  They want to imply things but want room for deniability.  I will say the actors did generate some chemistry despite the obvious restrictions placed on them.  I think being so coy made a bigger deal out of it than if they had just allowed the actors to have more natural interactions.  It’s clear to me that if they had been a heterosexual couple their b plot romance would have been less restrained.  They want the brownie points for representation but don’t want to actually commit to it.  I am happy to see more progess from Hallmark.  I figure these frustrating baby steps are better than nothing and hopefully just the beginning of better representation in the future.  There was another movie whose name I can’t remember on Hallmark that had a “blink and you’d miss it” implied romance between two same sex minor characters.  So Hallmark is clearly testing the waters.  There’s been a big change up in who is running things so the future should be interesting for Hallmark.

[possibilities]

You can get married in this country, but you can't be out on the Hallmark channel. We live in a weird world.

[Spartan Girl]

Been getting back into Xena Warrior Princess thanks to SyFy and the progression of Xena and Gabrielle from friends to a couple was pretty well done for a late 90s/early 2000s show. Yes, it was never outright said they were lovers but COME ON. By the fourth season they were kissing (and not in a platonic way), saying that they loved each other, giving each other long romantic calling each other soulmates almost as much as Dawson and Joey. Xena gave Gabrielle a poem from SAPPHO. It was pretty freaking obvious, and anyone that says otherwise wasn't watching the show.

[Mabinogia]

7 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Been getting back into Xena Warrior Princess thanks to SyFy and the progression of Xena and Gabrielle from friends to a couple was pretty well done for a late 90s/early 2000s show. Yes, it was never outright said they were lovers but COME ON. By the fourth season they were kissing (and not in a platonic way), saying that they loved each other, giving each other long romantic calling each other soulmates almost as much as Dawson and Joey. Xena gave Gabrielle a poem from SAPPHO. It was pretty freaking obvious, and anyone that says otherwise wasn't watching the show.

And the best thing was, it never really felt like it was forced. I always got the impression that the chemistry between them informed their relationship rather than the show forcing them into a relationship regardless of any chemistry. And there was never really "that moment!" it happened so naturally and organically that I barely noticed it was happening until I realized I was totally shipping them. 

I really loved that show. It was so over the top but in the best way and they all looked like they were having a blast making it. 

[Blergh]

Girl Meets World- Maya actually tagged the as-yet-unseen Shawn as Cory's 'boyfriend' in a derisive rather than complimentary way. And yet, she constantly declared her love for Riley and even went so far as to say that she loved the feel of Riley's back against her own.  Both bonds COULD have potentially  been      considered platonic or romantic  and there's nothing wrong with either of those states  in themselves (although traditionally in most cultures, female platonic friends CAN express themselves more physically than male platonic friends are able to).

However I think Maya's lopsided overpraise of Riley and even falling on her own sword  for Riley's sake (e.g. putting aside her own feelings for Lucas JUST to let Riley admire him in their circle as a brother) and  Riley's constantly thinking she had to run Maya's life and dis her for getting better grades was in itself a bit toxic instead of positive or healthy- the same way had this been a hetero couple with the girl openly worshiping the guy (and falling on her own sword for his sake) and the guy self- justifying himself   to run the girl's life and dissing her for getting better grades!

Back to the opening tag re dissing Shawn as Cory's 'boyfriend': glass houses, Maya (and I say this is as someone who thought Maya was one of the more interesting and likable characters on the show with the most potential for growth despite her rough edges and faults). And, yes, I think Maya was actually right to call out Shawn for avoiding Riley NOT because Riley was supposedly perfect (NOPE) but because it simply wasn't a fair way for an adult family friend to treat a minor who hadn't done anything to them. I also think in this instance Cory DID fail Riley by not having called Shawn on his shabby treatment of his minor offspring for all those years instead of pretending Shawn was perfect. Still, two  or more wrongs. .. 

[Luckylyn]

The Cory/Shawn so close they are like boyfriends is a running joke going back to the original series Boy Meets World.

 

It was very much in the same vein as Turk and JD on Scrubs.  Turk and JD even had their own love song “Guy Love.” 

The writers purposely used couples language and subtext for platonic male friendships.  I don’t know if that would be considered Queer Baiting or not.   I remember a YouTuber saying she didn’t think it counted as Queer Baiting because it was made clear the characters were never going to be a couple from the beginning and so the audience wasn’t promised something the show runners weren’t going to give.   I think it’s worth a debate.

It was clear that Cory and Shawn could be so close that other people (Topanga, Riley) could sometimes be made to feel left out.  Topanga who was married to Cory also used couples language in reference to Cory and Shawn.  I remember a scene where she’s talking to Riley and Topanga mentions something from the past as Cory and Shawn’s first date.  She says it with affection and not derision.  The continuing the Cory and Shawn are so close they are practically a couple joke on Girl Meets World didn’t bother me because I was so used to growing up with it on Boy Meets World.  The running joke on BMW, GMW, and Scrubs was amusing to me.  I enjoyed the friendships and the humor in their wives/girlfriends reactions to sometimes feeling left out.  Carla asking if Turk will ever love her that way after Turk and JD run into each other’s arms after Turk returns home from his and Carla’s honeymoon was funny.  Is the couple’s language and subtext as a source of humor offensive?  That’s a fair question.    I’d really like to read more opinions on it.  

Men in friendships don’t get to be affectionate as easily as women do in theirs which isn’t fair.  Cory/Shawn and Turk/JD adoring each other and openly finding joy and affection in their friendships was nice to see.  There was an episode of Scrubs where interns make fun of the Turk/JD friendship where they dress as Turk/JD and make out.   Turk is disturbed by this and decides he and JD can’t be openly affectionate with each other anymore.  But by the end of the episode Turk and JD run into each other’s arms with their love song “Guy Love” playing in the background.  Basically they publicly took as stand about how they should be allowed to be close if they want to regardless of other people’s judgements and jokes.

 

The question is what was the writers of these shows intentions with the romantic references between same sex friends as humor. 

[Luckylyn]

Unrequited: A History of Queer Baiting 

 

[Scarlett45]

On 2/16/2020 at 11:32 AM, starri said:

I know FreeForm has been very inclusive of queer content for a long time, but I was still really surprised that their offering for Valentine's Day was a rom-com about two guys.  

While it was mostly a standard basic cable rom-com, I ended up finding it really charming.  The two guys (Cute But Relatable and Incredibly Hot) had real chemistry.  And I guess I was expecting it to be Hallmark-y where we'd get one fairly chaste kiss at the end and no more affection, but it turned out....not so much.

This is a very late reply but I loved The Thing About Harry!

[Luckylyn]

What is Good Queer Representation in 2020?

 

[Luckylyn]

3 hours ago, Dani said:

Paul Campbell is A Proud Voice in Hallmark Channel's New Direction

They are really building the hype for Wedding Every Weekend and Hallmark’s “new direction”. Hope it delivers. 

Also lots of talk about humor in this one. I’ve missed that in Hallmark movies. 

I wanted to share this article that @Dani shared in the Hallmark Thread.  Paul Campbell really is committed to the new direction for Hallmark.  He’s been getting bigoted tweets on his twitter page and he responds with clever humor to refute the homophobia.  https://twitter.com/thepaulcampbell

[Annber03]

OMG, his response to the "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" tweet...

Quote

He also gave us Donny and Marie so his record isn’t exactly spotless.

LOL XD!

I haven't seen his work, but just going off his Twitter, I officially like this guy. 

[festivus]

Just checked him out, awesome!

This will be the first Hallmark movie I've watched since Sarah, Plain and Tall.

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I haven't seen his work, but just going off his Twitter, I officially like this guy. 

I loved his character (Billy) on Battlestar Galactica, but have never seen him in anything else or heard anything about him personally.  I'm glad to see he's a good guy!

[Guest]

Disney confirms its first bisexual lead character, who is also multi-cultural

 

[Irlandesa]

And 3-2-1 before it moves to Hulu like Love Victor.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

And 3-2-1 before it moves to Hulu like Love Victor.

It’s been airing on the Disney Channel since January. If Disney was going to pull it they would have done it months ago. The episode that confirmed it aired last week.  

Edited August 17, 2020 by Guest

[biakbiak]

StarTrek Discovery season 3 will introduce a non-binary character and a trans character.

 

[Anduin]

Comics and TV writer Grant Morrison comes out as non-binary. I'm not that familiar with their work, but good on them for being who they want to be.

Yeah, the interview misgenders them. But here it is, straight from Morrison.

Quote

As a for instance, when I was a kid there were no words to describe certain aspects of my own experience. I’ve been non-binary, cross-dressing, ‘gender queer’ since I was 10 years old, but the available terms for what I was doing and how I felt were few and far between. We had ‘transsexual’ and ‘transvestite’ both of which sounded like DSM classifications rather than lifestyle choices! I didn’t want to be labelled as medical aberration because that’s not how it felt, nor was it something cut-and-dried and done. I didn’t want to ‘transition’ or embody my ‘female’ side exclusively, so I had no idea where I fit in.

Terms like ‘genderqueer’ and ‘non-binary’ only came into vogue in the mid-90s. So kids like me had very limited ways of describing our attraction to drag and sexual ambiguity. Nowadays there’s this whole new vocabulary, allowing kids to figure out exactly where they sit on the ‘color wheel’ of gender and sexuality, so I think it’s OK to lose a few contentious words when you are creating new ones that offer a more finely-grained approach to experience.

 

[Silver Raven]

Wentworth Miller says he's through playing straight characters.

https://ew.com/tv/wentworth-miller-done-prison-break-straight-roles/?did=579012-20201110

 

[starri]

The fallout from the Hallmark Channel Zulilly kerfuffle has landed.  

Hallmark's The Christmas House with a subplot of Jonathan Bennett and his husband trying to adopt.

Lifetime's The Christmas Setup has (stop me if you've heard this one) a big city lawyer coming home and his meddling mom, Fran Drescher (!), hooking him up with the town's dashing handyman.  The actors in this one are married in real life.

And the surprising (and possibly sexier?) Dashing in December from the Paramount Network.  They think outside the box by having a big city finance bro come home to the family ranch and have Andie McDowell try and hook him up with the hunky ranch hand.

The sad part is that I'll still probably tune in to most of these.

[Annber03]

13 minutes ago, starri said:

Lifetime's The Christmas Setup has (stop me if you've heard this one) a big city lawyer coming home and his meddling mom, Fran Drescher (!), hooking him up with the town's dashing handyman.  The actors in this one are married in real life.

Aw, that's cute about them being married in real life :D. 

[methodwriter85]

Juan Pablo Di Pace is so gorgeous.

[starri]

Hallmark allowed Bennett and Brad Harder to kiss, which actually blew my mind.  They were believable as a couple, too.

[Oreo2234]

So the GLAAD media awards nominations are out. I think I read that Batwoman is the only network show with a LGBT lead but for some reason its not nominated but Supergirl is? I like Supergirl but I don't think it deserved this nomination. Nia was pushed to the background and we hardly saw Alex and her girlfriends relationship. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Oreo2234

[Hiyo]

Is there a thread forum for It’s A Sin?

[Hiyo]

Well, since there was no forum for it, I decided to create one myself...hope to see some of you there.

https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/115748-its-a-sin/?tab=comments#comment-6612547

[giovannif7]

Actor Ronen Rubinstein, who plays the out firefighter-turned-paramedic son of Rob Lowe's character on 9-1-1: Lone Star, has come out as bisexual.

[biakbiak]

Good article on Bowen Yang and what he is bringing to the show as a cast and writer. Contrasts what he has been able to do with the experience of Terry Sweeney, SNL’s first gay cast member.

It also highlights that Chevy Chase has always been an absolute piece of shit.

Edited May 23, 2021 by biakbiak

[Zella]

43 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

It also highlights that Chevy Chase has always been an absolute piece of shit.

That was one of my main takeaways from the oral history of SNL I read a few years ago. Most people's memories of many things differed remarkably, but everyone was united in saying he was an asshole. Reading what he did to Sweeney, though, in that same book was even more appalling than the horrible things he did to everyone else. I actually don't even remember all the specifics since it's been some time, but I just remember thinking what a real asshole he'd have to be to do what he did. [Edited to add: Reading the linked article now, and it was the sketch idea he pitched. Just pure cruelty.]

Edited May 23, 2021 by Zella

[starri]

Sesame Street introduces a family with two dads.

I'm not crying, you're crying.