S03.E02: Primavera

[ElectricBoogaloo]

With his wounds now healed, Will Graham heads to Europe eight months after the horrific event that almost took his life, in search of closure with Hannibal Lecter.

 

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttjnKjp0OGg

[unworried well]

Another, more SPOILERY promo .

 

[AimingforYoko]

I was wondering how in the hell Abigail Hobbs was traipsing around Italy with Will and not locked up in a booby hatch, then I figured it out about ten minutes before the reveal. Well played, Fuller.

I love how Fuller plays around with the Harris canon. He gave Pazzi the epiphany about Hannibal that was Graham's in Red Dragon.

[bmoore4026]

GAH!  SLICEY STABBY IN THE FIRST MINUTES!  NO LIKE!  NO LIKE!

 

Well, maybe the rest of the show won't be so GAH!  YANKING IV OUT OF HAND WITH NO PAIN!  NO LIKE!  NO LIKE!  Oh, it's just a fantasy sequence.

 

I really did almost scream when that heart thing began to come apart and grew hooves and all that.  That was some Silent Hill shit right there,

 

Rinaldo Pazzi?  Did the Pazzi family try to take over Florence waaaaaaaay back in the day?

 

At first, I didn't like Abigail.  Then it turned out Abigail was dead this whole time.  Now I don't know what to think.

 

Still wanted to give Will a whole bunch of cuddles after all he's been through, in spite of his nihilism.

 

I'm guessing Will goes to Lithuania next episode?  Or all they still in Italy?
 

[Madding crowd]

Very happy to see Will back although his forgiving Hannibal indicates he is still a bit off his rocker. I didn't need to see the gross autopsy scene and I didn't feel it added any information about the state of mind of either Hannibal or Will. Will was unconscious and receiving medical treatment and Hannibal was far away. Why show Abigail's autopsy? Just to be artistic and gross out viewers.

 

I would happily watch this show just to stare at Will for an hour each week, but I want things to make some sense to me. So Hannibal was trying to draw Will to Italy for what reason exactly? To play more mind games? And Will came to Italy not to catch Hannibal but ???  I liked Pazzi and liked the framing of the church scenes.

[patty1h]

What a mind fuck.  I was so happy when I thought Abigail had survived her ordeal.  I questioned her resolve to pursue Hannibal with Will, but I got the impression that they had formed a "family".  Then, some of Abigail's reactions gave me a pause -- her smiles seemed wrong.  I found it weird that I didn't see horrendous scars on her throat... she'd gotten her throat cut twice.  I was just pondering that she'd had some excellent cosmetic surgery when her neck split open as she was sitting next to Will.  Oh, my poor Will was only imagining his fishing buddy.  So sad.  I got teary when they showed Abigail being autopsied/embalmed; that poor girl suffered so much.

 

Will, what is he doing?   I have no idea what he will do when he finally meets Hannibal face to face.  He forgives him, so now what? What will Hannibal do when they meet?  

 

I like the Italian detective - his voice is ear candy.  I hope he doesn't get slaughtered too soon.  Oh man, that walking torso with antlers!  Nightmare!

[Dot Com]

I really did almost scream when that heart thing began to come apart and grew hooves and all that. That was some Silent Hill shit right there

During that scene I could hear my mom in the kitchen opening the freezer door then heading towards the living room.

Me to mom - "This would NOT be a good time to come in here eating that fudgsicle! Watching 'Hannibal'".

Welcome back Will. I really really missed you!

[Texasmom1970]

I knew they were messing with us about Abigail. As soon as she walked into Will's hospital room I looked at my daughter and said how in the hell is she walking around when he is still in bed. I knew he was either dreaming or hallucinating.

I am not broken up about her death or anything. Just want Jack to be alive also! And I wonder who is taking care of Will's dogs, I know trivial, but that's me.

[thuganomics85]

I actually called the Abigail twist pretty early on.  I just had this suspicion about her, so I started paying attention to her in all of the scenes, and noticed that Will was the only person talking to her.  The detective and the rest never even seemed to acknowledge her, so I figured that was going down that path.  Liked the reveal though, and seeing her being embalmed was sad to watch.  At least this allowed for Kacey Rohl to get a final moment, unless she ends up popping up again in Will's "Mind Palace."

 

So, yeah: no surprise, Will is still around.  But I have no idea what he's up too.  Clearly trying to find Hannibal, but now he is saying he "forgives" him?  What is your game, Will?  I do think this explains why he seems to be by himself.  I don't think the FBI (or what's left of them), are in on whatever his plan is.  Either that, or they are waiting in the shadows.  But this feels like Will is on his own. And I'm sure that will make Hannibal even more interested in the game.

 

Just like with Hannibal's puns from last week, it's been too long since we last saw Will re-imaged a Hannibal crime scene.  Good times.  Until the body suddenly turned into a fucking headless deer or some shit.  That might be one of the creepiest things on this damn show, and that's saying something.

 

Found this to be slower then last week, due to really only focusing on Will and his mindset.  But it looks like next week the chase will truly begin.  And I guess we still need to check in on Jack and Alana's fates 

trailer hints that Jack is still alive, at least. I think Alana will be too, but in a wheelchair, but that's just speculation.

[atir]

When the doctor offered Will some water out of a cup, i thought something was amiss in his recovery

.

[Brattinella]

What a mind fuck.  I was so happy when I thought Abigail had survived her ordeal.  I questioned her resolve to pursue Hannibal with Will, but I got the impression that they had formed a "family".  Then, some of Abigail's reactions gave me a pause -- her smiles seemed wrong.  I found it weird that I didn't see horrendous scars on her throat... she'd gotten her throat cut twice.  I was just pondering that she'd had some excellent cosmetic surgery when her neck split open as she was sitting next to Will.  Oh, my poor Will was only imagining his fishing buddy.  So sad.  I got teary when they showed Abigail being autopsied/embalmed; that poor girl suffered so much.

 

Will, what is he doing?   I have no idea what he will do when he finally meets Hannibal face to face.  He forgives him, so now what? What will Hannibal do when they meet?  

 

I like the Italian detective - his voice is ear candy.  I hope he doesn't get slaughtered too soon.  Oh man, that walking torso with antlers!  Nightmare!

 

You hit it all right on the head.  Someone else said it was like Silent Hill.  True!  And what about the blood ocean?  I ADORE this show!

[Snookums]

Very happy to see Will back although his forgiving Hannibal indicates he is still a bit off his rocker.

 

 

Or he's finally figured out a winning strategy. Being forgiven would be the one unendurable thing for the Devil. It means he was wrong the whole time.

 

Poor Abigail. My husband said her story reminded him of a bit in the Dune novels where Paul sees a tiny plant struggling to grow out from under a rock. He moves the rock. Months later, when the plant is growing strong and well, he picks up the same rock and puts it back, crushing the plant. When asked why, he answers that it was the plant's fate--he delayed it for a while, but then put things back on their predestined track. Abigail was fated to have her throat slashed in a kitchen by a man obsessed with his failure to save her. 

 

I loved Hallucination Abigail--her hair a little too feathered, her smile a little too off, her jacket looking permanently drenched in blood. Will knew he had lost her because even in his mind, she wanted to join Hannibal, not him. 

 

Nice to see even the young Monster of Florence was a totally pretentious ham/ass: the whole Botticelli In The Truck was classic Hannibal, but  a young man's game--the grotesque murderer equivalent of a philosophy major sitting up all night in a coffee shop loudly declaiming about reality and God. I'm sure present day Hannibal squirms with embarrassment over his early attempts. 

 

Texasmom1970, I was also worrying about the dogs!

Edited June 13, 2015 by Snookums

[mrsdalgliesh]

This was Will's transition episode.  He needed to say goodbye to Abigail, and he did.  I thought HD was heartbreaking as he let go of the fantasy on the steps of the altar.  The dual "sewing up" scenes were in Will's head: acknowledging that he lived and Abigail died,  And I also think that he needed to come to a resolution of his enmeshment with Hannibal so he could truly start hunting him to capture him.  That's what "I forgive you" means; it means that Will acknowledges his own complicity in the mutual mind-fuck with Hannibal and his own (lesser) responsibility for that bloodbath of a season finale.  And Hannibal is not intriguing or mysterious: he's a monster.  The disfigured stag is not the magnificent powerful animal we saw before. He's a nightmare.  Now Will can hunt Hannibal down.

 

On another note, NBC?  If the ratings for this show are truly as abysmal as we've been told, who are you advertising to when you fill the bottom of the screen with those f*cking promos???  Way to ruin the primary reason this show is admired: its visual beauty.  STOP IT.

[jeansheridan]

I figured the ghost Abigail in the police station, so a bit late.  I'm slow.  I like what she represents for Will however.  She's the part of him that still cares about Hannibal.  The "what if" part.  If she serves as a way for us to hear Will's thoughts, I'm good with her being around.  Like I loved hearing Will ponder about what would have happened had they left after the lamb dinner.  Also I think he was literally trying to figure out where Hannibal would go.

 

I think Will is trying to lure Hannibal again.  He knows with just two people he can't capture Hannibal and I don't think he has a gun in Italy.  Plus I don't know the extradition rules.  Hannibal sliced and diced in America, but there's no proof in Europe.  Even if they brought him in for questioning ...Will and Jack (if he's alive) need Hannibal back on American soil to get him.  Much like they needed to in the book Hannibal. 

 

So despite all the dream sequences and haziness, there is a plot pushing through.  Will is on the hunt again, however fragile he seems. 

 

Plus, damn, that whole Hannibal in the balcony peering down at him ...Fuller is just messing with fanfic writers at this point. 

[jeansheridan]

 

And Hannibal is not intriguing or mysterious: he's a monster.  The disfigured stag is not the magnificent powerful animal we saw before. He's a nightmare.  Now Will can hunt Hannibal down.

Such a good point!  Although I did see it as a bit of a rebirth, but I guess maybe a deformed/weakened rebirth?  Although Will did look very scared. 

 

I liked seeing Will with another police officer too.  Not bad chemistry for a first meeting.  Prickly, sardonic Will has always been my favorite flavor. 

 

I'm stupid when it comes to timelines, but I just realized that Hannibal ate Abel during the time Will was locked up.  I was wondering a bit how he hid Abel so well in his apparently massive house. 

[Snookums]

And Hannibal is not intriguing or mysterious: he's a monster.  The disfigured stag is not the magnificent powerful animal we saw before. He's a nightmare.  Now Will can hunt Hannibal down.

 

 

Excellent interpretation of that mindfuck of a scene. From elegant artistic rendering in flesh of a broken heart--how Hannibal distracts everybody--to the grim malformation that is Hannibal's real soul and stunted purpose. Will won't get fooled again.

 

Plus, damn, that whole Hannibal in the balcony peering down at him ...Fuller is just messing with fanfic writers at this point.

 

 

Right through the star-shaped lattice! Hannibal was making a wish, I think. Star light, Star bright, first Will Graham I see tonight...

[jeansheridan]

 

Or he's finally figured out a winning strategy. Being forgiven would be the one unendurable thing for the Devil. It means he was wrong the whole time.

I'm not sure I understand where you are going with this idea.  Can you explain?  I'm very curious.  ;^)

[Snookums]

I'm not sure I understand where you are going with this idea.  Can you explain?  I'm very curious.  ;^)

 

 

Well, going on the premise that Hannibal Lecter is, or at least fancies himself, the Devil (an idea Will underlined heavily in this episode) and has an "intimate" but very confrontational/disdainful relationship with God, he's got a lot invested in defiance. Defying the world, defying God's law, defying the reality of emotion and empathy that Will Graham represents. 

 

During their confrontation at the house, Hannibal told Will he forgave him and asked "do you forgive me?" Will was kind of busy bleeding out at the time and couldn't answer, but realized that Hannibal wasn't being sarcastic or rhetorical when he asked. Hannibal is obsessed with forgiveness and meaning, if one can lead to the other, if it's possible to unbreak the teacup. His love/rage towards Will was the intensity of emotion we feel towards The Unreachable Other, the gap between priest and deity, the desire to smash the pillar of cloud and fire that has led us through the desert but won't point the way home. Will had what Hannibal could not achieve--feeling for others. It's nearly killed him many times, but he won't die with a dried up desert of a heart, which is Hannibal's greatest fear--leaving no mark on life, no indication that he was ever there.

 

So he really needs (or thinks he needs) Will to not forgive him, to continue to worship and fear and rage and plot, the way you would against a god, a god you are furious with. He needs his Other to pursue him with a heart full of rage and passion. To be God to somebody.

 

If you're forgiven, you aren't God. You're just a sinner who flailed around making nothing but mistakes, full of delirious delusion, fooling nobody but yourself. If Will forgives Hannibal, Hannibal is just a sick murderer. He's cut down to size. 

Edited June 12, 2015 by Snookums

[Bec]

Well, after everybody's super-insightful analysis of the meaning of forgiveness that I didn't even come close to thinking of, I just have this to offer:

Is everybody getting dunked in a tank full of water this season? Last week it was Bedelia, this week Will. Baptism symbolism?

 

I kind of wish they didn't put "it's a valentine" in the dialog. It's a giant heart, I kind of figured it's a valentine, you don't have to make the subtext into text, show. But it still made me smile that Will said exactly what I was thinking. Hee!

 

I was kind of like "yes!" when the "Abigail has been dead all along" reveal came along. Sorry, she always bugged me for some reason. I suspected she's some kind of hallucination after I got over initially being pissed that she was still around. But when she kept on sticking around I just kind of rolled with it and didn't think anymore of it, so the reveal still caught me off guard.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J07RVw3JUjE

[kmm49]

What was the point of killing everyone off the show and bringing them back in flashbacks?

 

This was another slow-moving episode but I still really enjoyed seeing Will finally and his glasses. So cute! I still think this show would be doing better in the ratings if they kept the "murder of the week" format with the FBI. Unfortunately, most people enjoy shows like that.

 

So one police inspector's looking for a cannibalistic serial killer who killed FBI people?! That's hard to believe with the media the way it is nowadays. I miss seeing our season one and two regulars on a regular basis and I'm not sure if I'm going to enjoy the newbies coming in.

 

Without too many spoilers was that Will's wife coming in next week? What's the point of Will having a wife because right now I can't see it other than another possible Hannibal murder victim. How does she further the story along?

[Caelicola]

Jeeeeeeeeeeeesus christ that was the most nightmarish imagery I've ever seen...it reminded me of Guillermo Del Toro, it was Pan's Labirynth-esque and I think I'll dream it tonight, half stag and half weirdly contorted human body. It still creeps me out just thinking about it.

 

I thought it was pretty obvious that Abigail wasn't really there, because really, Hannibal wanted to punish Will for ruining his big surprise, so he would have known how to cut, yeah, but to cause maximum damage, not otherwise. But the payoff was that beautiful sequence paralleling Will's body being prepared for surgery and Abigail's being prepared for interment, which I loved in its powerful simplicity.

 

They did it! My biggest pet peeve! The dude who tries to get Will out of the church, supposedly part of the Italian police, is almost unintelligible, his american accent is so heavy! But then, they went with Cerlino for Pazzi, and he's very very Italian, so I guess they're even as far as casting for Italians (the guy who stops him from leaving the church is also clearly italian, so I'm okay with him too. Really, it was only a line, and yet I was so unreasonably annoyed).

 

Speaking of Cerlino, I'm not entirely sure I liked his acting decisions and the weird forced whisper-y way he spoke during the whole thing, with a strangely singsongy intonation, but we'll see, I might change my mind. What I did like was seeing a picture of twenty-years-ago Mads, what a lovely lovely face. Also a lovely face? Hugh Dancy, especially with the lighting in the crypt, just a strange never-aging beautiful nymph.

 

 

Rinaldo Pazzi?  Did the Pazzi family try to take over Florence waaaaaaaay back in the day?

 

They put together a huge conspiracy, aided by the Pope and a shit-ton of prominent florentine families, to take out Lorenzo il Magnifico and his younger brother Giuliano. They succeeded in killing Giuliano, but not Lorenzo, and grossly miscalculated the way the people would react to them. Where they expected support in their revolution, they ended up getting lynched, hanged and and thrown in the Arno. If I remember it right (it's been a long time since I read it), Harris makes Rinaldo Pazzi a direct descendant of those Pazzi, and kinda makes it a plot/character development point as well, so I'm curious to see what Fuller does with him.

 

Overall, I think I loved it, and will rewatch it a few times, but I'm so easy with this show it's kinda embarrassing. I'm Fuller's bitch and have been since I saw a young boy and a dog running through a field of yellow daisies.

[Neurochick]

I think Will's, "I forgive you" was a huge mind fuck to Hannibal.  Will knew Hannibal was there, he knew he could hear him.  I mean if Will had said, "I love you" that REALLY would have fucked Hannibal's world.  

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Fell asleep during the second half, will rewatch tonight.

[greenbean]

I'm happy to have Will back, but when will the storyline also return? I thought they'd ease up on the visual masturbation, but this episode still contained moments more suitable for a music video. Very little actually happened, and the best part was the recap of last season's finale. Reminding me of just how magnificent the show can be. Hannibal leaning in, tear falling from his eye, telling Will to wade into the stream.

 

Abigail, Abigail. I will certainly miss you. I would have preferred her to be on the run with Hannibal. She offered so much to the show. I loved that her teenage curiosity and candour brought out a different side to many of the adult characters. One of my favourite scenes with Abigail, was that exchange between her and Hannibal when she asked him direct questions about being a murderer. She was the first to see him.

 

[Lady Iris]

The disfigured stag is not the magnificent powerful animal we saw before. He's a nightmare.  Now Will can hunt Hannibal down.

 

Love this! Nightmare indeed. Kill it. Kill it with fire! But uhh, dont eat it.

 

For my money, the only eyeball rolling moment I experienced was Will, descending into darkness with a buonanotte. That was just a wee bit hammy for me.

[Brattinella]

I wasn't happy to see Abigail at all, never liked her.

 

I just love the visual imagery; my mouth was hanging open for a good portion of this episode, the Botticelli in the Truck, the blood ocean, the skinned torso/heart, the TRULY horrific stag.  Plus Will is such a cutie, and Mads especially the old photo of him, yum! 

 

NBC, listen to your viewers: We DO NOT WANT your sleazy promos covering half the screen of something we really LOVE with something that some of us NEVER would watch (me included)  Just STOP IT.

[Anela]

My cable recording screwed up (it keeps doing that), so I had to find a way to watch online, and didn't give it my full attention. On-demand isn't working for me, either. 

[Blue Chihuahua]

I was thinking there was something of about Abigail, but never made the connection so the reveal surprised me. Also my signal kept going out from storms so I missed quite a bit. I was glad of the reveal though. I liked the actress and the character, but if she'd survivedthat it would have been too much, if that makes sense. Hello Will, I missed you! And glasses too! He needs to keep those on. Loved the visuals this week, but looking forward to next week. I did get to see nightmare antler thing and agree Caelicola that it's very Pan's Labyrinth. That was my first thought. Also loved the introduction of Pazzi and glad I got to see the old picture of Mads.

[kmm49]

I think Will's, "I forgive you" was a huge mind fuck to Hannibal.

Absolutely! But at this time I don't buy Will being strong enough or has had enough to bring Hannibal to justice. Does he really think he can outsmart him?

[attica]

Not only did we get NBC's obscuring promos, but they blurred out the nipples on a motherfucking BOTTICELLI.

 

I can't even.

[Brattinella]

Not only did we get NBC's obscuring promos, but they blurred out the nipples on a motherfucking BOTTICELLI.

 

I can't even.

 

I KNOW!!  I couldn't believe my eyes! GAH!

[Charlesman]

I'm happy to have Will back, but when will the storyline also return? I thought they'd ease up on the visual masturbation, but this episode still contained moments more suitable for a music video. Very little actually happened

 

 

I have to agree. We only get a precious few episodes of this show, and now we're two down with no major movement yet.

[kmm49]

Not only did we get NBC's obscuring promos, but they blurred out the nipples on a motherfucking BOTTICELLI.

Last week they didn't show the Vitruvian Man's penis. So blood and gore's okay but body parts aren't?

 

We only get a precious few episodes of this show, and now we're two down with no major movement yet.

We didn't have this issue the previous two seasons with the FBI murder of the week case but now they're moving in a different direction I'm worried the rest of the season's going to be this way.

 

I also am missing the Hannibal/Will therapy sessions. I hope we get more scenes with them together and not this we're in the same building but not the same room scenario every week.

Edited June 12, 2015 by kmm49

[Primetimer]

Images to drink in, and swear off, in the latest Hannibal as Will follows his h(e)art to Italy.

Read the story

[Brattinella]

Last week they didn't show the Vitruvian Man's penis. So blood and gore's okay but body parts aren't?

 

We didn't have this issue the previous two seasons with the FBI murder of the week case but now they're moving in a different direction I'm worried the rest of the season's going to be this way.

 

I also am missing the Hannibal/Will therapy sessions. I hope we get more scenes with them together and not this we're in the same building but not the same room scenario every week.

 

Also, Foxnews blurred out nipples from a record-setting Picasso.  PICASSO!  We are talking DOTS.  Blurred out DOTS.  Gah.

[saber5055]

Why show Abigail's autopsy? Just to be artistic and gross out viewers.

 

 

It was her being embalmed and readied for a funeral by those guys who put in fake eyeballs and sew the mouths shut on corpses so the dead people won't open their jaws during funerals and scare everyone. Everything is stitched shut on corpses.

 

I was totally sucked in by the Abigail twist. When the reveal came, all I could think was, poor Will. Another person taken from him.

 

It also explained why the priest turned and stared at Abigail when she and Will came into the church. I think he could see her, or sense her presence. They looked at each other far too long.

 

I think Will's, "I forgive you" was a huge mind fuck to Hannibal.

Yeah, but did anyone else see two red horns grow in the background, out of Will's shoulders after he said that? I did not like that image at all, especially when Will told the Italian police guy that he didn't know which side he was on.

 

I did like Will sending the Italian police guy out of the tunnels by telling he was was usually right about people getting killed.

 

I was absolutely engrossed for this episode so if there were tons of artsy filming things going on, I just enjoyed those, too. Hugh Dancy ... I am all about his Will Graham!

Edited June 12, 2015 by saber5055

[Snookums]

I was kind of like "yes!" when the "Abigail has been dead all along" reveal came along. Sorry, she always bugged me for some reason. I suspected she's some kind of hallucination after I got over initially being pissed that she was still around.

 

 

I think Abigail is gritty, like sand in an oyster, because the characters have turned her into this symbol of innocence, which she most assuredly is not. She's a victim, certainly; first of her lunatic father, then as the replacement daughter for two equally-in-their-own-ways crazy men--but she was not helpless, only overpowered by her fate.

 

Not only did she kill the guy in her house (the brother of her friend who got murdered: Hannibal did totally set that up, to see what she'd do, and she killed him) but the show has made it very clear that Abigail knew, or intuited, that her father was using her as bait for his own victims, and she consciously went along with it to save her own life. Not because she herself reveled in death but because like Bedelia, she's a survivor. If it comes down to her or you, well, she's sorry, she really is, but she picks herself.

 

That's why she was so endlessly intriguing to both Hannibal and Will. Will sees somebody who lived and breathed with evil in ways even he couldn't dream of, yet retained an integral sense of self, without the crumbling and dissolving like a cookie in milk that he's constantly battling. Hannibal saw somebody who could face watching and bringing gruesome, blood on your hands death without it scratching out her ability to bond and empathize with others. She hooked up with Hannibal in season two not out of helplessness but out of her instinct for finding a strong champion. Unfortunately, her years with her father warped that instinct and she picked someone who would put her down instead of just finding girls who looked like her.

 

This isn't somebody who's innocent, who refuses to acknowledge the fight of survival in a world of demons longing to snuff out the candles around them. She chose to live against great odds and had to live with that self-knowledge. The fact that the priest in the chapel was the only outside person (outside Will's head) to see her and his disapproving stare says as much. You know what you've done. Don't come in here like somebody who can't guess at their sins. 

[atir]

This show skews my tiny brain so much. I'm always unclear as to what is real and what is in someone's imagination/hallucination. That being said, can one of u explain if the "heart" "weird stag" was truly in that church? Also was it based on another famous work art?

[Snookums]

The "heart" was: Hannibal made it out of Dimmond "That Kind Of Party" as a symbol of his own broken heart to allure Will. Will's trip about the unfolding and deformed stag horror was all in his own head, though. 

[bmoore4026]

They put together a huge conspiracy, aided by the Pope and a shit-ton of prominent florentine families, to take out Lorenzo il Magnifico and his younger brother Giuliano. They succeeded in killing Giuliano, but not Lorenzo, and grossly miscalculated the way the people would react to them. Where they expected support in their revolution, they ended up getting lynched, hanged and and thrown in the Arno. If I remember it right (it's been a long time since I read it), Harris makes Rinaldo Pazzi a direct descendant of those Pazzi, and kinda makes it a plot/character development point as well, so I'm curious to see what Fuller does with him.

 

Oh, this is so going to end well for him :)

Edited June 12, 2015 by bmoore4026

[Snookums]

If by well you mean "Medium Well, Braised With Rosemary", yes.

[GreyBunny]

Loved the ocean of blood.  Another reference from The Shining!

 

Having Abigail speak to Will made sense to me. To me she represents the part of Will that still cares for Hannibal and is the sounding board for clarifying his thoughts and feelings about him. He was admitting to himself there is still part of him that wants to run off with Hannibal. When her throat began to bleed in the cathedral, I think Will finally came to terms with Abigail's death and that running off with Hannibal is not a real world possibility, at least one that would never end well for him, especially now since any partnership with Hannibal would be a grotesque monstrosity (symbolized by that skinned and deformed stag that staggered toward Will). 

 

 

 

[Pixel]

While I love the imagery and artistry of the show, I do fear it's too inaccessible to attract new viewers. It's great for those of us who signed on from day one, but in trying to drum up new viewers I am finding my friends don't get it yet. It just seems like a disjointed mess to the uninitiated, and I fear that won't help ratings.

I don't think you have to be sophisticated to like it (and yes, I realize that was tongue in cheek). I'm certainly not. But it's not going to be an easy sell to new viewers.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Pixel

[FoundTime]

It occurred to me that every viewer the show might have gained last week with that beautiful (but relatively bloodless) ep, it lost this week in revisiting the bloodbath of last season’s finale. Oh well, I suppose the show needs to let its (new) audience “see” it too. I certainly tell everyone I recommend it to, “It’s not for everyone.”

 

mrsdalgliesh (and others)

On another note, NBC? If the ratings for this show are truly as abysmal as we've been told, who are you advertising to when you fill the bottom of the screen with those f*cking promos??? Way to ruin the primary reason this show is admired: its visual beauty. STOP IT.

Not only was I getting that, I was also getting ads for my late local news (sometimes in two parts). I watched On Demand last week but DVRd this week so I could zoom around more easily to parts I especially wanted to rewatch, but this just makes it painful and is so insulting to what Fuller and his creative team are trying to do.

 

Though I love everyone's thoughts here about what Will's "I forgive you" meant, I took it more as a means of drawing Hannibal out so their little game could resume. More of a "bring it on, I'm back" kind of "I forgive you."

[Brattinella]

I'm a bona fide Hannibalphile.  I have read all the Harris books, watched all the movies and all the seasons of this show.  I don't think I would enjoy it half as much if I hadn't already been attracted to and familiar with this story.

[AimingforYoko]

While I love the imagery and artistry of the show, I do fear it's too inaccessible to attract new viewers. It's great for those of us who signed on from day one, but in trying to drum up new viewers I am finding my friends don't get it yet. It just seems like a disjointed mess to the uninitiated, and I fear that won't help ratings.

I don't think you have to be sophisticated to like it (and yes, I realize that was tongue in cheek). I'm certainly not. But it's not going to be an easy sell to new viewers.

At least Fuller cops to it: "The first thing I tell any new director is ‘You are making a pretentious art film.’ This is not an episode of television. This is a pretentious art film."

[GreyBunny]

Normally shows with heavy imagery annoy me (Lost, Twin Peaks), but these versions of the characters, actors and Bryan Fuller are so appealing that I'm willing to forgive a lot.  They're the ones that keep me hooked.  I think Thomas Harris is a crap writer (I read Red Dragon and that was enough to put me off) so it's up to Fuller to improve what Harris screwed up and so far he's done splendidly.

 

On another note, NBC? If the ratings for this show are truly as abysmal as we've been told, who are you advertising to when you fill the bottom of the screen with those f*cking promos??? Way to ruin the primary reason this show is admired: its visual beauty. STOP IT.

 

THANK YOU.  When watching an ambient fever-dream show that is crawling around inside Will Graham's head, a promo for American Ninja Chestbeater (or whatever) doesn't belong there.  Gah.

Edited June 12, 2015 by GreyBunny

[venezia54]

 

If you're forgiven, you aren't God. You're just a sinner who flailed around making nothing but mistakes, full of delirious delusion, fooling nobody but yourself. If Will forgives Hannibal, Hannibal is just a sick murderer. He's cut down to size.

 

Also, if the Devil is forgiven by man, that means there is good in humanity after all. He has not seduced Will into pure evil. But I think this show is more complex than that, so I like your interpretation better. Also, I don't necessarily think Will's forgiveness IS a game. I think he truly feels it. That won't stop him from trying to catch Hannibal, any more than Hannibal's love for Will will stop him from gutting him. That's why their relationship is so effed up. 

[penguinnj]

 

I have read all the Harris books, watched all the movies and all the seasons of this show.  I don't think I would enjoy it half as much if I hadn't already been attracted to and familiar with this story.

I agree with this but I had a different route.  I adored Silence and Red Dragon but detested the other books.  And yet I adore the series and will watch until the end because this is a different take on those books and- IMHOP- better storytelling.

Great eppie but I agree it was slow advancing the plot.    As much as I enjoyed each sequence, I would FF my TIVO shocked to see how little of the show was left and how little had happened.   But so glad to see Will again.  Although none of those humorous touches that I look forward too.