Race & Ethnicity On TV

[Ohiopirate02]

I want to say that the first scene Roger is in he is grossly antisemitic along with Don.  They have a whole conversation about employing Jews because Menken's department store is looking for a new agency.  Him appearing in blackface in a later season fits the character.  

[Zella]

21 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I hope they won't.  Mainly because Mad Men had so many more intrinsic low key (and high key) racist moments that getting rid of that one would be just theater.  It is exactly why activists are calling this chain of removing these things easy erasure and performative.  It doesn't get at the root of what they really want to change in Hollywood, which is simple equity and opportunity behind and before the cameras.

Also, iirc, that episode of Mad Med furthered my opinion that Pete was actually one of the most decent people on the show.  He was probably the only one that was visibly disgusted at Roger's display.  This was after episodes in previous seasons that show Pete trying to get the firm to actively advertise to black consumers, rightly pointing out that black people were an under-realized market with a lot of buying potential. Only for Don to witheringly shut him down.  Don really was an asshole all around.  LOL.

Yes, that scene made me reevaluate my dislike for Pete. I mean, Pete was still an asshole in his own right, but I always saw him as an audience stand-in during that moment. More so than Don since I got the impression Don just thought the display was undignified in public. Pete seemed genuinely upset and offended. 

[Mabinogia]

3 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

They also talk about the false double standard of, 'well, Donald was made up to look like a white guy, so that's racist too!' crowd. With that, I like Reni Eddo-Lodge's definition of racism as "prejudice plus power" to explain why it's not the same thing.

I often try to play Devil's Advocate with myself, it helps me try to see two sides of any given situation and for a moment thought "Why is it okay for black comedians to wear white face?" But I too boiled it down to the issue of power and oppression. In it's simplest and historic terms white folk doing blackface = keeping blacks "in their place" and laughing at them while they do it. Black folks doing whiteface = fighting back at centuries of repression and unrelenting torture. 

I wonder if the movie Soul Man is going to be banned for life. It should. It was a terrible movie about a white guy basically stealing a scholarship from a black guy by pretending he's black. The 80's were a different time, and yet not that long ago. It is one of the worst modern cases of blackface I can think of. 

The only real positive to come out of all this is that at least people are finally talking about the gigantic elephant that is racism disguised as comedy. 

[Neurochick]

14 hours ago, xaxat said:

BET came out on fire for their awards show.

I think this is fantastic. However,  this song is thirty years old. It's depressing that it is still applicable today.

(And they are still dunking on Bobby McFerrin.)

This was awesome, especially Alicia Keys' song that was sad and beautiful. 

I also like the P&G commercials as well.

[festivus]

I rarely watched TV in the 80s so Mad Men was the first thing I thought of. I feel that show was different though as in we can expect someone like Roger to do that. I think that's what I liked about the show, we weren't ever supposed to get nostalgic and think about the "good old days". The show didn't sanitize how truly awful people can be. If they pull that episode they may as well pull the whole show.

[Hiyo]

Quote

I think that's what I liked about the show, we weren't ever supposed to get nostalgic and think about the "good old days". The show didn't sanitize how truly awful people can be. If they pull that episode they may as well pull the whole show.

Yeah, if a show starts in the early 60s, it would be very weird and strange to see everyone on the show be progressive and not have any racism, sexism, and homophobia be present in the show at all. It would be a revisionist fantasy period piece show, like the upcoming Hollywood series. I mean, yeah, it would have been great to see things like

Spoiler

Rock Huson making out with his black boyfriend on the red carpet

but you know that would never ever have happened in real life.

And even the smaller moments on Mad Men, while they may have made us cringe and be disappointed in the characters, was and in many cases still is, true to life, like Peggy wondering if Dawn, the black secretary, was going to steal money out of her wallet.

[Trini]

15 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Yeah, if a show starts in the early 60s, it would be very weird and strange to see everyone on the show be progressive and not have any racism, sexism, and homophobia be present in the show at all. It would be a revisionist fantasy period piece show, like the upcoming Hollywood series. I mean, yeah, it would have been great to see things like

  Reveal spoiler

Rock Huson making out with his black boyfriend on the red carpet

but you know that would never ever have happened in real life.

And even the smaller moments on Mad Men, while they may have made us cringe and be disappointed in the characters, was and in many cases still is, true to life, like Peggy wondering if Dawn, the black secretary, was going to steal money out of her wallet.

As someone who never watched Mad Men, I got the impression that they set it in the 60's so that they could have the racism, sexism, homophobia, and other taboos and have it be "okay" since "that's just how it was back then".

[Hiyo]

I think the show had to be set in the 60s to tell the story they wanted to tell.

[possibilities]

I think Mad Men is somewhat of a litmus test.

For instance, when there were viewers who loved Don and hated Betty, I think that said something about those viewers. Or if it made anyone long for that time, well... if you wanted to live in that hell, then I guess that tells us who you are.

But there were also people who genuinely did not know what it was like, and were horrified and learned something. And there were people who watched it and were disgusted, but appreciated that it was finally being admitted to in public, and saw it as a confession rather than a glorification.

I don't know what the majority thought, or what the producers intended. I've been afraid to find out.

[DearEvette]

5 hours ago, Trini said:

As someone who never watched Mad Men, I got the impression that they set it in the 60's so that they could have the racism, sexism, homophobia, and other taboos and have it be "okay" since "that's just how it was back then".

 

5 hours ago, Hiyo said:

I think the show had to be set in the 60s to tell the story they wanted to tell.

 

I think both these things can be true.  I do think the story Weiner wanted to tell was about 60s admen in New York.  But I also think setting stories in period time pieces in closed white spaces offers the perfect excuse to not have to worry about meaningful inclusion.  You can easily explain it away as  'historical accuracy' if questioned about it.  Or if really pressed about it you can easily bring on a marginalized character onto the periphery or use them as window dressing.

There is nothing inherently wrong with telling these stories in these settings where, yes, it would have been a very homogenous setting.  But that speaks to the bigger issue as to why is it that these are the stories that always get to be told.  The ones that always get to erase marginalized people under the guise of 'historical accuracy.'

[possibilities]

Yes, people of all colors and cultures existed in the 1960s. The ad world of NY was not the only story that could be told. Moreover, the ad world itself could have been told from the point of view of Dawn (the Black secretary) or some other person in that world who was there and not ever given the primary focus for the TV show, but could have been.

[Zella]

8 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I want to say that the first scene Roger is in he is grossly antisemitic along with Don.  They have a whole conversation about employing Jews because Menken's department store is looking for a new agency.  Him appearing in blackface in a later season fits the character.  

I meant to add earlier, one of the things that really stood out to me on a rewatch is what an unsavory asshole Roger is, on multiple levels, in a show full of them. He's really a deeply unpleasant man. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Zella

[biakbiak]

Haven’t had the chance to listen because it just dropped but Bill Lawerence and Sarah Chalke join Zack and Donald on their Scrubs podcast, Fake Doctors, Real Friends, about the blackface episode.

Edited June 30, 2020 by biakbiak

[Trini]

Article at LA Times: 'Black writers are getting hired. But they aren’t getting promoted '

And direct link to the Writers Guild of America West report on inclusion referenced: https://www.wga.org/uploadedfiles/the-guild/inclusion-and-equity/WGAW_Inclusion_Report_20.pdf

A few excerpts:

Quote

“People in my position are either not selling shows or not moving up in the room,” Moore said. “If we are gonna talk about Black Lives Matter ... then you actually have to let people of color run the room.”

Moore’s concerns were echoed in the latest inclusion report from the Writers Guild of America, West. In a survey of 2,717 jobs in television networks and streaming platforms for the 2019-2020 TV season, the guild found that most senior decision makers on TV shows last year — the showrunners and executive producers — were overwhelmingly white men. Just 18% were people of color, compared with a U.S. population of 40%. Although writers of color account for 46% of supervisor producers, their share among co-executive producers or executive producers falls to 33% and 19%, respectively.

Quote

The union’s Committee of Black Writers recently called for a revamp in hiring and for the film and TV industry to show accountability for the lack of progress among creators of color. While there is some improvement, as white writers and writers of color reach almost parity on the first rung of the TV industry, too many writers of color were being passed over for opportunities, the committee noted.

Staying on the lower rungs has significant financial consequences: Staff writers do not get paid lucrative script fees — as much as $40,000 per script — that more senior writers fetch in addition to the weekly minimum of $3,905 on most network shows.

Many Black writers say they find it difficult to advance beyond the level of staff writer.

Quote

In the face of criticism, studios in the past two decades have launched talent programs to groom writers so they can get hired on shows. Studios even pay for shows to hire staff writers of color in a so-called “diversity slot.” But only about half of those writers go on to be rehired or have long-term positions, despite having competed in prestigious network programs.

“Some have described these programs as little more than a revolving door of one-year stints in the writers’ room for diverse talent, where one ‘free’ writer simply replaces another,” wrote Darnell Hunt, dean of UCLA’s division of social sciences, in a university-led 2019 study. “It appears as if this type of program is abused by a sizable share of showrunners who view it primarily as a source of free, expendable labor. Showrunners who have a pattern of failing to do so should be held accountable.”

In recent weeks, Hunt said he has had a rush of producers asking for his input on their depictions of policing in their shows. Crime procedurals have historically excluded Black writers from the writers room, Hunt found. Out of nine procedurals he studied in 2017, none had a Black showrunner.

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by Trini
spelling - d'oh!

[Neurochick]

Saw this commercial on the BET awards:

 

 

[Scarlett45]

On 6/29/2020 at 2:15 AM, possibilities said:

I never saw the GG episode, so I don't have a personal opinion about it, but I have seen some Black activists on twitter also saying that episode was not blackface or offensive.

Some examples:

Also, this should probably be noted:

https://twitter.com/ashleyn1cole/status/1277261519470751744

 

I am a black woman and I really liked that episode of the Golden Girls- who yes were some of the least problematic white women on tv in the late 80s early 90s (I was a preschool then but I like the reruns). 
 

Mud masks aren’t black face. I don’t think the joke was the best part of the episode but I’m not offended by it. 

[Blergh]

Just now, Scarlett45 said:

I am a black woman and I really liked that episode of the Golden Girls- who yes were some of the least problematic white women on tv in the late 80s early 90s (I was a preschool then but I like the reruns). 
 

Mud masks aren’t black face. I don’t think the joke was the best part of the episode but I’m not offended by it. 

Although, I think it needs to be said that at one point Dorothy DID list her son being white and his would-be bride being black as one of the reasons for her objecting to their marriage (in addition to the wide age gap). I always thought that had BLANCHE said that, the other characters would have been all over her on that yet Dorothy herself got a free pass with none of them calling her on that.  Yes, Dorothy and the bride's mother did come around to learn to accept if not like the union due to wanting to stay part of their children's (and future grandchild's) lives but that doesn't mean that Dorothy herself did NOT utter what she uttered (and didn't apologize for).

[Scarlett45]

On 6/29/2020 at 8:32 PM, possibilities said:

Yes, people of all colors and cultures existed in the 1960s. The ad world of NY was not the only story that could be told. Moreover, the ad world itself could have been told from the point of view of Dawn (the Black secretary) or some other person in that world who was there and not ever given the primary focus for the TV show, but could have been.

Exactly. 
 

You can do a period show and have ALL of your characters be interesting, multi-layered with agency and have it be historically accurate. Penny Dreadful: City of Angels did a great job with this (it’s set in late 1930s LA). Of course they didn’t ignore the racism and wove supernatural elements into it but ALL of the characters were allowed to be multi-dimesional.

Black and brown people had interesting lives before de-segregation.....

[Scarlett45]

34 minutes ago, Blergh said:

Although, I think it needs to be said that at one point Dorothy DID list her son being white and his would-be bride being black as one of the reasons for her objecting to their marriage (in addition to the wide age gap). I always thought that had BLANCHE said that, the other characters would have been all over her on that yet Dorothy herself got a free pass with none of them calling her on that.  Yes, Dorothy and the bride's mother did come around to learn to accept if not like the union due to wanting to stay part of their children's (and future grandchild's) lives but that doesn't mean that Dorothy herself did NOT utter what she uttered (and didn't apologize for).

I didn’t have a problem with what Dorothy said. Of course it helped that she came around to the idea because of the love of her son and interest in her future grandchild. (which a lot of decent people do at the end of the day)
 

There’s a way to show dialogue about race in a realistic way without using racial slurs or being offensive/hateful/violent. 
 

A white woman telling me she wouldn’t want her son to marry me because I was black wouldn’t offend me, life is hard for black people and I can understand why she would want her son to not have to deal with that, and to have white children.(I’m childfree so no grandchildren anyway) Now if she started calling me slurs and threatening my life and safety that would be an entirely different story. 

My Mom wouldn’t be a fan of having a white son-in-law either, but I don’t think she would be rude enough to say so to his face.  
 

Using this episode as an example, I think it’s become a trend of well meaning people in power (usually white) to pretend like race doesn’t exist because it’s “impolite” or they assume acknowledging race is ONLY done to intentionally discriminate and terrorize. What I think black and brown people want to see are stories that reflect our lives- yes race is a part of our lives but we do “regular people stuff” (because we ARE REGULAR PEOPLE)and interact and talk about subjects not just about racial oppression, we would like to see stories acknowledge our experience and not just have us show up for “very special segments” about the past or teach “special lessons” and just ignore our experience in black and brown skin the rest of the time. 
 

The Golden Girls episode did a good job with that because YES the huge age difference WAS a thing. 

[biakbiak]

The episode of John Slattery doing blackface on Mad Men will now have a title card shown to “provide context”:

Wondering now if the anti-Semitic, homophobic, misogynistic, triggering (sexual violence and self harm), and other scenes that make up the entire series  will also have a disclaimer for context. I actually don’t care one way or the other but find as noted throughout this thread attempts like this problematic/unnecessary/avoidance of the actual problem 

Hire people (men/women/non-binary, black, indigenous, people of color, LGBTQIA+) at all levels in your organization and greenliight shows that  give them power, a voice, a platform,  listen to them, nurture and develop  them and let that make a difference rather than title cards providing “context” on art/entertainment that if done well provided it.

 

[Mabinogia]

5 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Saw this commercial on the BET awards:

 

 

That actually made me tear up. It was beautifully done and very powerful. I can't imagine how hard it is to go through life like that, always being judged

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I didn’t have a problem with what Dorothy said. Of course it helped that she came around to the idea because of the love of her son and interest in her future grandchild. (which a lot of decent people do at the end of the day)
 

There’s a way to show dialogue about race in a realistic way without using racial slurs or being offensive/hateful/violent. 
 

A white woman telling me she wouldn’t want her son to marry me because I was black wouldn’t offend me, life is hard for black people and I can understand why she would want her son to not have to deal with that, and to have white children.(I’m childfree so no grandchildren anyway) Now if she started calling me slurs and threatening my life and safety that would be an entirely different story. 

My Mom wouldn’t be a fan of having a white son-in-law either, but I don’t think she would be rude enough to say so to his face.  
 

Using this episode as an example, I think it’s become a trend of well meaning people in power (usually white) to pretend like race doesn’t exist because it’s “impolite” or they assume acknowledging race is ONLY done to intentionally discriminate and terrorize. What I think black and brown people want to see are stories that reflect our lives- yes race is a part of our lives but we do “regular people stuff” (because we ARE REGULAR PEOPLE)and interact and talk about subjects not just about racial oppression, we would like to see stories acknowledge our experience and not just have us show up for “very special segments” about the past or teach “special lessons” and just ignore our experience in black and brown skin the rest of the time. 
 

The Golden Girls episode did a good job with that because YES the huge age difference WAS a thing. 

I love your entire post. In addition, part of what made GG work was that the women sometimes started out on the wrong side of these issues. It allowed the show to reach more people and kept them from simply preaching to the choir. The women could be surrogates for the audience and as a result reached people who would have changed the channel immediately. 

[Annber03]

7 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Saw this commercial on the BET awards:

 

 

Damn, that was powerful. 

[Luckylyn]

90s Sitcoms Warned Us

 

[xaxat]

 

[Blergh]

Ah but can anyone NOT get what the late Miss Lena Horne was trying to convey re her rendition of "It's Not Easy Being Green" on Sesame Street?

She not only blew Kermit himself out of the water during the 'duet' but also gave it far more depth than anyone else could have done! 

 

 

[Guest]

Matthew Cherry's 'Hair Love' Becoming HBO Max Animated Series

Quote

Young Love, the 2D animated series, will explore family dynamics through this young Black millennial family — Stephen and Angela, their daughter, Zuri, and her pet cat, Rocky — as they juggle their careers, marriage, parenthood, social issues and multigenerational dynamics, all while striving to make a better life for themselves.

 

[aradia22]

Quote

JK Rowling was particularly good at this - Dean Thomas, Cho Chang, the Patil twins. Heck, even the emphasized (by her) weirdness of Angelina Jones dating one Weasley twin and marrying another. Like Rowling went on record to describe that marriage as dysfunctional... 🤷🏾‍♀️

I stopped engaging with HP when the last movie of the main franchise was released so my memory is not good. But around the time Cho got dropped as a love interest in the books, I started to realize something was up. The sidelining of the other minor POC characters became more noticeable. It happens with almost every series where you suddenly realize there's a fuck ton of characters and yet curiously no one with a notable role is a BIPOC character. Not the students who actually do something, not the teachers, not the antagonists, not the bureaucrats/politicians, etc. HUH. WEIRD. THAT'S SO WEIRD. 

Quote

Crazy Ex-Girlfriend is a tricky one for me. Rebecca's obsession with Josh Chan is SUPPOSED to be unhealthy, more about her mental health issues than about who he is, but as someone who came to the show specifically because I heard about the "Asian male romantic lead," it hurt to immediately see Josh portrayed as kind of a tool and not worth Rebecca's obsession, all while damaged-but-sensitive white bartender Greg was standing right there. The show then pulled the same thing with Nathaniel. Seriously, there were only two straight white guys in the regular cast, and they were both almost INSTANTLY painted as better potential matches for Rebecca than Josh. If they needed to maintain Josh as a symbol demonstrating Rebecca's unhealthy feelings about love, did they really have to make BOTH Greg and Nathaniel white? That felt icky to me.

Yeah, that's a tricky one for me, too. I certainly don't think they were trying to make Josh bad from the beginning. It started out as being more about Rebecca's obsession being bad. But then they needed to do some character assassination once Josh did start wanting her to torpedo the relationship. I do think they redeemed Josh's character by the end and I think it's notable that of the 3 fantasy lives, the one with Josh is the most wholesome. I think it's more of a problem of not thinking of casting Greg or Nathaniel with a non-white actor. I get why they did. Santino has theater cred and they liked the other guy in his audition. But if any show understands optics or the far reaching implications of their creative decisions, it's CEG. So yeah, disappointing.

[aradia22]

Quote

I have been seeing this and am I'm like damn how many shows had a blackface episode and how the hell was this ok? 

Why do white people love blackface so much? Assuming you've never heard of minstrel shows and don't understand all the other ways it is offensive... still, why? White people are not the only ones who practice cultural appropriation and specifically the dressing up aspect of turning another ethnicity/race into a costume or performance. But like... they do it more than everyone else. Like, a lot more. 

Also, call me when Tracey Ullman finally gets over herself and actually apologizes. Some of the worst offenders of "race changing makeup" continue to be silent.

[DearEvette]

Batwoman Taps Javicia Leslie to Replace Ruby Rose in Title Role

[Trini]

5 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Batwoman Taps Javicia Leslie to Replace Ruby Rose in Title Role

The entire situation with the previous lead actress leaving and bringing in a new character has been (will be?) messy; However, this makes her the first second Black woman to lead a superhero show.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Trini

[callie lee 29]

21 hours ago, aradia22 said:

Why do white people love blackface so much? Assuming you've never heard of minstrel shows and don't understand all the other ways it is offensive... still, why? White people are not the only ones who practice cultural appropriation and specifically the dressing up aspect of turning another ethnicity/race into a costume or performance. But like... they do it more than everyone else. Like, a lot more. 

Also, call me when Tracey Ullman finally gets over herself and actually apologizes. Some of the worst offenders of "race changing makeup" continue to be silent.

As a white person I have a really hard time believing all of these white filmmakers/actors/artists/etc didn’t know this wasn’t cool. I’m in my mid40’s & my family is from Deep South Mississippi and I have always been taught this was wrong.  How did I somehow get the memo and none of them didn’t????

[Silver Raven]

21 hours ago, aradia22 said:

Why do white people love blackface so much? Assuming you've never heard of minstrel shows and don't understand all the other ways it is offensive... still, why? White people are not the only ones who practice cultural appropriation and specifically the dressing up aspect of turning another ethnicity/race into a costume or performance. But like... they do it more than everyone else. Like, a lot more. 

Also, call me when Tracey Ullman finally gets over herself and actually apologizes. Some of the worst offenders of "race changing makeup" continue to be silent.

The Black and White Minstrels ran on UK television for 20 years.  It was a music show, kind of like Mitch MIller, but all the men wore black face and all the women wore natural makeup.

 

[Trini]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

Batwoman Taps Javicia Leslie to Replace Ruby Rose in Title Role

The entire situation with the previous lead actress leaving and bringing in a new character has been (will be?) messy; However, this makes her the first Black woman to lead a superhero show.

Sorry, scratch that -- I was reminded of Regina King in Watchmen. So Javicia Leslie is the second.

She is still the first Black woman to play a comic book character in the titular role. (Regina's character was not in the comics.)

[Jane Tuesday]

1 hour ago, callie lee 29 said:

As a white person I have a really hard time believing all of these white filmmakers/actors/artists/etc didn’t know this wasn’t cool. I’m in my mid40’s & my family is from Deep South Mississippi and I have always been taught this was wrong.  How did I somehow get the memo and none of them didn’t????

Same! I grew up in a not exactly progressive area, and yet I feel like I was aware as a child in the 80s that blackface was unacceptable. They get no pass from me.

Article about the use of blackface on SNL...

[Guest]

1 hour ago, callie lee 29 said:

As a white person I have a really hard time believing all of these white filmmakers/actors/artists/etc didn’t know this wasn’t cool. I’m in my mid40’s & my family is from Deep South Mississippi and I have always been taught this was wrong.  How did I somehow get the memo and none of them didn’t????

Interesting I grew up in California and was taught nothing about blackface. I remember seeing comics changing their skin color for skits and I didn’t really think anything about it. For the most part it wasn’t something even remotely on my radar.

At some point I saw some show that mentioned Soul Man and it was immediately clear that was wrong but I feel like there were a lot of mixed messages out there. Tropic Thunder got Robert Downey Jr a Oscar nomination and Tyra Banks did race changing challenges on America’s Next Top Model. 

I can easily understand how people could get the idea that it was okay as long as it was well intentioned. 

[Trini]

Washington Post article about diversity and racism in TV writers rooms, with quotes from several writers:

Quote

After major studios issued statements decrying anti-black racism, The Washington Post spoke to several black writers about their experiences in the television industry. Most remain cautiously optimistic about whether these companies will eventually look inward. It’s not just the dearth of opportunity the writers say has hurt them — though that is certainly the first hurdle — but also the lack of upward mobility once they’re in the room. It’s the inability to be taken seriously until they have white-led series on their résumés, and the struggle to feel truly understood and heard.

Their stories point to inequitable treatment at all levels, ranging from staff writer to showrunner.

“Something that happens a lot when it comes to diversity in Hollywood ― and everywhere else ― is that people will just populate the room with people of color or queer people or women but not really respect those people’s voices or pay attention to what they’re saying,” says “The Good Place” writer Cord Jefferson. “It feels like you’re diversity decoration a little bit, as opposed to a valuable member of the team."

Quote

Zahir McGhee participated in the Disney/ABC writing fellowship out of graduate school and was placed on “Private Practice,” the “Grey’s Anatomy” spinoff. He is glad to have landed where he did, given creator Shonda Rhimes’s established habit of assembling inclusive writers rooms, but describes the fellowship as a “double-edged sword.” Networks cover the salaries of program participants, giving showrunners an incentive to hire them; Tina Fey, for instance, admitted to the New Yorker that she had largely hired Donald Glover to write for “30 Rock” because funding from NBC “made him free.” Once the program ends and the funds dry up, showrunners must decide whether the writer is worth part of the show’s budget.

“Unfortunately, that’s a place where a lot of people get stuck,” McGhee says.

Quote

“Very often, black writers are tasked with writing the black character and the black story line, and having input on whether or not there’s racism in the story, as if that’s the only role we could possibly play in the room,” Cooper says. “We’re not often asked to write about characters who happen to be another race, or a story that doesn’t have to do with a black character. I always say that our experiences as human beings need to be included in the room. … We have perspective on all aspects of life.”

 

[Trini]

Also, I wasn't aware of this:
https://www.oprahmag.com/entertainment/tv-movies/a33235786/baker-and-the-beauty-canceled-latinx-tv-shows/

 

I did mostly enjoy this while it was on, and was disappointed that it wasn't renewed. 😞

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Trini said:

Also, I wasn't aware of this:
https://www.oprahmag.com/entertainment/tv-movies/a33235786/baker-and-the-beauty-canceled-latinx-tv-shows/

 

I did mostly enjoy this while it was on, and was disappointed that it wasn't renewed. 😞

Well that’s depressing. Did ABC do any advertising? I really thought it was a reality show based on the title.

It’s even more depressing to realize the same is true for Asian shows with Fresh of the Boat cancelled. 

[Neurochick]

7 hours ago, Dani said:

Well that’s depressing. Did ABC do any advertising? I really thought it was a reality show based on the title.

 

I saw ads for the show before it premiered.  

But nothing while it was on.

[topanga]

9 hours ago, Dani said:

Well that’s depressing. Did ABC do any advertising? I really thought it was a reality show based on the title.

It’s even more depressing to realize the same is true for Asian shows with Fresh of the Boat cancelled. 

 

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I saw ads for the show before it premiered.  

But nothing while it was on.

I never saw one ad. I don't watch ABC much, but given my social media and Internet searches, it should have been all over my feeds. I would've watched this show (The Baker and The Beauty).

[Irlandesa]

Much like Grand Hotel last year, they kind of held The Baker and The Beauty until midseason and just ran it off.  This is one I didn't watch because I didn't really love the original but I think ABC released it and just kind of hoped it'd find an audience instead of giving it a supportive launch the way they do for fall shows.

[aradia22]

Quote

Tyra Banks did race changing challenges on America’s Next Top Model. 

That was insane at the time. 

I only saw Baker and the Beauty when it was on the front page of hulu for a while. I knew it was a TV show but it had a Hallmark movie vibe so I skipped past it.

[DearEvette]

On 7/9/2020 at 2:59 AM, Trini said:

Washington Post article about diversity and racism in TV writers rooms, with quotes from several writers:

This is so depressing to read.  Not surprising but really quite depressing and tiresome.

Network tv executives are their own worst enemies.  They are seeing an amazing erosion in their audience and the perceived quality of their offerings.  The last time a network drama won an emmy for best drama was in 2006, for best comedy was 2014.  The last time any actor on a network show took home the emmy for acting either in comedy or drama was 2017 (Sterling K. Brown) the last time an actress did was 2015 (Viola Davis.)  Interestingly both This is Us and and How To Get Away with Murder have diverse writing rooms. 

You'd think there would be some self reflection and some self correction.  Why not be more open to different voices and be more aware of the untapped talent you have instead of consistently holding people down like this?  I mean, look at Donal Glover and Atlanta.  NBC and Tina Fey had a gem in this guy and it sounds like they really didn't know what to do with him.  It is no wonder some of the most innovative stuff is being done in non-network based platforms.  Even NBCs new streaming Peacock is shaping up just to be a more expensive NBC.  I looked at their slate of original programming and it is more stuff written by Tina Fey, Amy Poelher. Mindy Kaling, other SNL alums , and talent from old NBC shows like The Office and Parks and Recreation.  Nothing really new at all, just the same old names all over again.

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

Network tv executives are their own worst enemies.  They are seeing an amazing erosion in their audience and the perceived quality of their offerings.  The last time a network drama won an emmy for best drama was in 2006, for best comedy was 2014.  The last time any actor on a network show took home the emmy for acting either in comedy or drama was 2017 (Sterling K. Brown) the last time an actress did was 2015 (Viola Davis.)  Interestingly both This is Us and and How To Get Away with Murder have diverse writing rooms. 

This article doesn't surprise me because I believe that most network executives are fools.  Cable is no better.

BET has a successful format and guess what, they're not changing.  They are Black Entertainment Television and they're sticking to that.

Cable networks like TNT and USA are two perfect examples of networks who basically abandoned a loyal audience to do...I don't know.

I mean FX was always edgy even before they had original programming.  USA and TNT used to have good shows with real diversity (The Closer and Major Crimes come to mind, as well as White Collar) then for some reason, they decided to become FX and put on garbage like The Purge (which was VERY racially disturbing).  

[xaxat]

TCA is the Television Critics Association.

[possibilities]

I think Amber Ruffin's new show is going to be on Peacock. She's fantastic, and I don't know why NBC can't find a place for her on broadcast.

[phoenics]

On 7/9/2020 at 3:21 AM, Trini said:

Also, I wasn't aware of this:
https://www.oprahmag.com/entertainment/tv-movies/a33235786/baker-and-the-beauty-canceled-latinx-tv-shows/

 

I did mostly enjoy this while it was on, and was disappointed that it wasn't renewed. 😞

Is that tweet fully accurate given the existence of Charmed?  One of the leads is Latinx and the 3 lead characters are Latinx.

 

[phoenics]

On 7/10/2020 at 11:31 AM, DearEvette said:

This is so depressing to read.  Not surprising but really quite depressing and tiresome.

Network tv executives are their own worst enemies. 

So the showrunner for Roswell, NM was just fired.  According to a writer on twitter (he's gone private now), she was horrible to the PoC and muslim writers in the room (he was both).  He also said that the awful racist treatment of the Maria character (who was racebent from the OG show and books and then the showrunner subsequently erased her from the narrative, gave away her LI and other canon storylines and pretty much shafted the character a la Bonnie Bennett on The Vampire Diaries).  There was also tension with her and the lead of the show (a Latina).  Apparently she - the showrunner - did not listen to the PoC she hired and by the end of S1 most of the PoC writers were gone - and by the end of S2, all of them were gone - only white writers remained.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/carina-adly-mackenzie-as-roswell-new-mexico-showrunner-1302667

 

 

[DearEvette]

29 minutes ago, phoenics said:

So the showrunner for Roswell, NM was just fired.  According to a writer on twitter (he's gone private now), she was horrible to the PoC and muslim writers in the room (he was both).  He also said that the awful racist treatment of the Maria character (who was racebent from the OG show and books and then the showrunner subsequently erased her from the narrative, gave away her LI and other canon storylines and pretty much shafted the character a la Bonnie Bennett on The Vampire Diaries).  There was also tension with her and the lead of the show (a Latina).  Apparently she - the showrunner - did not listen to the PoC she hired and by the end of S1 most of the PoC writers were gone - and by the end of S2, all of them were gone - only white writers remained.

It is funny you should mention her, because her trajectory is just exactly the trajectory the black writers in the article @Trini posted speak about being completely denied. 

She wrote a fangirl blog about Vampire diaries that impressed Julie Plec (the creator and showrunner of Vampire Diaries) so much that Julie took her under her wing and hired her as a writing assistant on The Originals in 2013.  By the next year (2014) she is a getting 'written by' credit so she is now a full time staff writer.  By the next year (2015)  she is a story editor -- the next step up the rung.  By 2017 she is executive story editor, basically only answerable to the showrunner.  The next year 2018 she has a 2 year development deal with Warner Brothers.  And in 2019 she is given a show to run, Roswell. 

What is so frustrating of course, is in the end, after all that,  she really was not qualified to run a show.  And arguably not really qualified to write a good one either.  By all reports she was unprofessional and let her own personal biases dictate story and character.  In essence she basically acted like a fangirl given the power to put her own persona fanfic on tv.  Ugh.