Race & Ethnicity On TV

[DearEvette]

23 hours ago, jhlipton said:

They already have black and brown folks "up in there"; they just don't win or come in second.  The winning is the part they need to work on.

 

But I would contend that no one in the history of casting the show or watching the show has ever given any of these brown contestants higher than even odds of even making the final five let alone winning.  They are cast for 'on paper' diversity and not really because they have a real shot at winning.

I would take a guess that if someone were to splice together all scenes where the black contestants got quality on screen face time with the bachelor or bachelorette we'd probably only get about a two hour running time total.  And I am being generous.  And this is over 20 seasons.  I stopped regularly watching after the Charlie O'Connell season (now that was a shit show!) but have kept up with news around the show as a pop culture voyeur.  I pretty much just assumed the POC were cast as tokens and kept in the background until they could be comfortably eliminated without causing undue commentary.  I was surprised to learn that most years the black female contestants have been eliminated within the first three episodes.   So yeah, the two hour thing might be very generous.  There were four seasons straight where there wasn't a single black contestant on the Bachelor.  Also, non-black POC get farther.  Here is an article that looks at only black contestants   Here is an analysis that looks at all POC

But even so, i am still in agreement with @ribboninthesky1 given a lot of competing pressures a POC bachelor would have and how ABC has colossally botched the whole issue, it feels like that ship needs to keep sailing.

[Rick Kitchen]

11 hours ago, jhlipton said:

The network version of "diversity".

Two Asian actors in major roles is not diversity?  Malik Yoba is also the deputy director of the FBI, a recurring role.

[In2You]

How many times can they post the same message over and over again and think people believe it? It doesn't even sound sincere. Might as well not respond at all. And they've had new movies almost every weekend this year so its not like they haven't had ample opportunities for truly diverse casting.

[jhlipton]

17 hours ago, Rick Kitchen said:

Two Asian actors in major roles is not diversity?  Malik Yoba is also the deputy director of the FBI, a recurring role.

No, because once again, black women get nothing, and the black man is recurring. 

[ribboninthesky1]

On 8/7/2016 at 1:08 PM, DearEvette said:

I would take a guess that if someone were to splice together all scenes where the black contestants got quality on screen face time with the bachelor or bachelorette we'd probably only get about a two hour running time total.  And I am being generous.  And this is over 20 seasons.  I stopped regularly watching after the Charlie O'Connell season (now that was a shit show!) but have kept up with news around the show as a pop culture voyeur.  I pretty much just assumed the POC were cast as tokens and kept in the background until they could be comfortably eliminated without causing undue commentary.  I was surprised to learn that most years the black female contestants have been eliminated within the first three episodes.   So yeah, the two hour thing might be very generous.  There were four seasons straight where there wasn't a single black contestant on the Bachelor.  Also, non-black POC get farther.  Here is an article that looks at only black contestants   Here is an analysis that looks at all POC

Reading that 2nd article reminded me of that lawsuit from 2012 - totally forgot about that, and to read of the temporary spike in minority participants in 2013 was amusing. 

[proserpina65]

3 hours ago, jhlipton said:

No, because once again, black women get nothing, and the black man is recurring. 

It's still diversity, in that major characters are not white.  Yes, it would be great if they cast black actors/actresses in regular roles as well, but Asian actors/actresses have had their own struggles getting cast in shows like this.

Now, I am basing this on the idea that lack of diversity means white characters, mostly male, and of little variation in ethnicity and religion, which is how I've generally heard the term used.

[jhlipton]

9 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

It's still diversity, in that major characters are not white.  Yes, it would be great if they cast black actors/actresses in regular roles as well, but Asian actors/actresses have had their own struggles getting cast in shows like this.

I would agree re Eastern Asians (from Japan, Korea, Vietnam, etc.) I would not agree re Indians or Middle Eastern Asians, at least in the last few years.  The trend I see is to cast Women of Light Color and pretend that that is good enough. 

[Raja]

7 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I would agree re Eastern Asians (from Japan, Korea, Vietnam, etc.) I would not agree re Indians or Middle Eastern Asians, at least in the last few years.  The trend I see is to cast Women of Light Color and pretend that that is good enough. 

Race perceptions have changed and depends upon the local politics. Before the 1980s nobody in America thought to call Persians, Arabs, Turks, and lighter skin toned South Asians anything but another White ethnic group. While in Europe they belong to the other races classification So of course there will be push back when the kids of someone who was always "White" suddenly gets the person of color roles. Or another example specific to America folks who were always White  kids are now Latino.

[Neurochick]

23 hours ago, jhlipton said:

No, because once again, black women get nothing, and the black man is recurring. 

I second this.

Quote

Race perceptions have changed and depends upon the local politics. Before the 1980s nobody in America thought to call Persians, Arabs, Turks, and lighter skin toned South Asians anything but another White ethnic group. While in Europe they belong to the other races classification So of course there will be push back when the kids of someone who was always "White" suddenly gets the person of color roles. Or another example specific to America folks who were always White  kids are now Latino.

This is very true.  When I was growing up in the 1960's, people with one black parent and one white parent were considered black.  Now I have heard black people say that biracial people, and even light skinned black people aren't black, which really baffles me because that would mean that possibly both Frederick Douglas and Booker T. Washington, and also W.E.B. Dubois AND President Obama, wouldn't be considered black today either. 

To me it seems who is and who isn't black, changes like the weather.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Neurochick

[BoogieBurns]

Here's all I want out of a show:

Main character not white, and not a stereotype. Every episode passes the Bechdel test and the Blachdel test (this means two named black characters talk about something other than drugs, sports, or prison). No one at all is defined by a stereotype. I am also all for interracial relationships and fluid sexuality.

I came up with the Blachdel test for my own desires, feel free to frame it for other minority groups. Maybe the Latchdel test requires two named Latinx discussing something other than immigration or whatever you are sick of seeing on TV. 

[allyw]

54 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I second this.

This is very true.  When I was growing up in the 1960's, people with one black parent and one white parent were considered black.  Now I have heard black people say that biracial people, and even light skinned black people aren't black, which really baffles me because that would mean that possibly both Frederick Douglas and Booker T. Washington, and also W.E.B. Dubois AND President Obama, wouldn't be considered black today either. 

To me it seems who is and who isn't black, changes like the weather.

However a person chooses to identify racial wise is of no consequence to me and I refer to them as whatever they want. 

I only speak for myself and the problem I have with bi-racial actresses playing characters that are supposed to be Black women/ girls with 2 Black parents is that too many of these casting directors, producers et al. specifically hire Bi-racial actresses because they want the character to be Black but not too Black.

Couple that with colorism that many Black women have to deal with and yeah people are going to have an opinion.

[Neurochick]

8 minutes ago, allyw said:

However a person chooses to identify racial wise is of no consequence to me and I refer to them as whatever they want. 

I only speak for myself and the problem I have with bi-racial actresses playing characters that are supposed to be Black women/ girls with 2 Black parents is that too many of these casting directors, producers et al. specifically hire Bi-racial actresses because they want the character to be Black but not too Black.

I agree.  I shake my head when I hear someone say that someone else isn't black, just because they don't think they're black.  Sorry, you don't have the right to tell someone else who they are.

However, not every light skinned person is biracial.  Some light skinned people actually have two black parents.  So now does this mean a light skinned person with two black parents cannot play a black person?  Or does this mean we have to check parentage before you cast someone as a black person. make sure both parents are black, but not light skinned?

[BoogieBurns]

24 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

However, not every light skinned person is biracial.  Some light skinned people actually have two black parents.  So now does this mean a light skinned person with two black parents cannot play a black person?  Or does this mean we have to check parentage before you cast someone as a black person. make sure both parents are black, but not light skinned?

I am quite fair-skinned with two black parents. I see tons of biracial actresses who look like me, so I don't feel I need more representation. Also, I am a huge fan of darker skin, mostly because I envy those who look their race. 

Amber Stevens, Thandie Newton, Zendaya, Lisa Bonet, Paula Patton, etc. play black characters all the time. I really think black women with darker skin tones are too few and far between on screen. Light skinned girls will still see themselves in Lupita, but girls of darker shades get to see it too. There is never a shortage of roles for girls my color, so the industry should try harder to make room for both. 

[allyw]

41 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I agree.  I shake my head when I hear someone say that someone else isn't black, just because they don't think they're black.  Sorry, you don't have the right to tell someone else who they are.

However, not every light skinned person is biracial.  Some light skinned people actually have two black parents.  So now does this mean a light skinned person with two black parents cannot play a black person?  Or does this mean we have to check parentage before you cast someone as a black person. make sure both parents are black, but not light skinned?

Again I can only speak for myself and it's not about A light skinned actress playing a Black character. It's about the prevalence of the erasure of darker skinned Black women. For example when the female Iron person? was revealed, the drawing clearly showed that she was dark skinned yet most of the hypothetical casting were actresses who were either bi-racial and or light skinned. People are going to react to that especially with the history of the paper bag test.

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, BoogieBurns said:

Amber Stevens, Thandie Newton, Zendaya, Lisa Bonet, Paula Patton, etc. play black characters all the time. I really think black women with darker skin tones are too few and far between on screen. Light skinned girls will still see themselves in Lupita, but girls of darker shades get to see it too. There is never a shortage of roles for girls my color, so the industry should try harder to make room for both. 

Here's what is really interesting.  All of the people you mentioned are women.

As someone said upthread, it changes with the times.  When I was a teenager in the 1970's, a woman like Paula Patton would probably NOT play a black character onscreen.  I remember reading about a light skinned actress being told she was "too pretty" to play a black woman (WTF????)

And folks were stunned in 1983 when Jennifer Beals gave an interview where she said her father was black. 

[BoogieBurns]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Here's what is really interesting.  All of the people you mentioned are women.

True. I do not need another woman on the screen who looks like these ladies for a while. No shade, I'm sure they will still work. It's better for guys, sure, but I think Boris Kodjoe, Shemar Moore and Jesse Williams are still part of the same narrative. However, we have so many more darker skinned men in the mix than darker skinned women. Hollywood just needs to do better. Keep trying. Black women exist, show the world!

Jennifer Beals is sort of the 80's version of Troian Bellisario where it is actually harder to imagine them as black, even though they are both part black. 

[jhlipton]

8 hours ago, Raja said:

[A]nother example specific to America folks who were always White  kids are now Latino.

I prefer Latin@ when the gender is not specified. It combines the "a" and the "o" nicely. 

Race is a social construct for separating Us from Them, so of course it's going to be fluid.  The current definition helps TPTB in TV because they can cast people who had been considered White and call it "diversity".  This is far more true for women than men.

 

5 hours ago, Neurochick said:

So now does this mean a light skinned person with two black parents cannot play a black person?

It depends.  I would first of all say that parentage doesn't matter (at least to me).  Person X's parents may be darker than Person Y's but  it's only their tone that matters to me (in terms of representation).  Second, it matters if they are playing a pre-defined person (either a real person, or a character from literature).  Mya Rudolph should not play Michelle Obama or Flopsy, the slave from Uncle Tom's Cabin.  If we are taking about a new character, all characters need to be viewed in aggregate, showrunners who support systemic racism to the contrary.  Yes, you may be casting the best person for this role (by your white privilege blinders), but are you really promoting diversity or just  giving it lip-service?

5 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

I really think black women with darker skin tones are too few and far between on screen.

Co-sign.

[Neurochick]

It's really not about representation as it is the type of character played.  There is an ugly stereotype when it comes to darker skinned black women, that is overweight, loud, unattractive, sexless, matronly and always looking for a man.  (why I prefer Aisha Tyler  to Sheryl Underwood on The Talk).  Quality,  not quantity.  Why not have a brown skinned black woman play a love interest?   In the show "Southland" why did Regina King's character have to be the unwed mother?  Why did she have to be alone, with a baby?  I felt like I have seen that character 4784993 times already.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Neurochick

[BoogieBurns]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Why not have a brown skinned black woman play a love interest?

Main reason I was pissed that Grandfathered got cancelled. They had 3 black girls, none were stereotypes, all were seen as desirable but not in the "fetish" sense. Because the whole "I like chocolate women" crap isn't helping anyone either.

Are there any shows coming back this fall with a black woman love interest (excluding all black casts like Empire)?

[Trini]

2 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

Are there any shows coming back this fall with a black woman love interest (excluding all black casts like Empire)?

The Flash; off the top of my head. I stopped watching Bones, so I'm not sure what up with Cam's love life. And I also don't watch the Shondaland shows, so maybe something is happening there.

[BoogieBurns]

I'm dumb. Again, I forget that the entire Drama genre exists. I only watch comedy. Shondaland holds it down for all of us.

[Ohwell]

There were a couple of episodes on Z-Nation where Roberta (played by Kellita Smith) had a love affair with her white co-star.  Then he got killed.

[atomationage]

Hit The Floor?

[possibilities]

Viola Davis on HTGAWM is sought after and in the habit of entertaining, some seriously gorgeous, highly passionate, insanely loyal and devoted lovers, so there's that.

[Ohwell]

52 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Viola Davis on HTGAWM is sought after and in the habit of entertaining, some seriously gorgeous, highly passionate, insanely loyal and devoted lovers, so there's that.

Yeah, she had a white husband but he got killed too.

[ribboninthesky1]

9 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Yeah, she had a white husband but he got killed too.

 

4 hours ago, Ohwell said:

There were a couple of episodes on Z-Nation where Roberta (played by Kellita Smith) had a love affair with her white co-star.  Then he got killed.

I should not be laughing, because I totally agree with the overall point.  But yeah, I'm cracking up. 

[topanga]

1 hour ago, atomationage said:

Hit The Floor?

I've never seen it before (or heard of it). It's a little to soap-y for me, but I'm glad another show with a black female lead exists. BTW, the actress (Logan?) who plays Jelena is really pretty--without all of the makeup she wears for the show. The make up gives her an artificial, plastic surgery look. 

[paulvdb]

I watched the first season of Hit The Floor, but stopped early in the second season because it became too soapy for me. Actually, the first season was also soapy, but there were some elements of the show that I like so I watched it anyway. But by the second season I just couldn't take it anymore. But with the main character and Jelena there were two black women as love interests. And if I remember correctly the main character's mother also had her own romance storylines, so that makes three.

I agree about Logan Browning's artificial look on the show. I checked her IMDB page and apparently I first saw her on Summerland, although I don't remember her character. I do remember her character on Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide. She was a girl that Cookie was attracted to. It's been a while since I watched it, but I don't think she had that artificial look back then.

Edited August 11, 2016 by paulvdb

[jhlipton]

On 8/10/2016 at 7:56 AM, BoogieBurns said:

Are there any shows coming back this fall with a black woman love interest (excluding all black casts like Empire)?

As noted, Roberta Warren has been presented as a strong (she's the de facto leader of their group) desirable woman.  She and Javier Vasquez had a love scene, too, sand he's alive although not necessarily part of the main group.

Naomi Nagata (on The Expanse) is falling in love with James "Jim" Holden (it's a slow but steady build).

Nyx (on Dark Matter) is having a fling with Four. 

Michonne (on The Walking Dead) is having a romance with Rick Grimes (the apple scene is now viral). 

Cable, especially SyFy is leading the way.

[Trini]

On 8/10/2016 at 5:11 PM, Ohwell said:

There were a couple of episodes on Z-Nation where Roberta (played by Kellita Smith) had a love affair with her white co-star.  Then he got killed.

20 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Yeah, she had a white husband but he got killed too.

Crap; Iris on The Flash also had a white fiancé who is also dead now!

[possibilities]

20 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

she had a white husband but he got killed too

That was a moral victory, though, if you ask me. Technically it was an accident, and it was not her fault anyway, but he was a horrible person who ordered a hit on his very young student mistress, and was generally an abusive piece of shit.

She traded up for a super hot Billy Brown and the fabulous Famke Janssen-- both of whom are insanely loyal, lusting, and devoted to her, under extreme circumstances, and basically want to marry, serve, love, and sex her to the ends of the earth and back, and do so whenever she allows.

I don't deny the tv landscape needs many more examples of this kind of thing, however.

[DearEvette]

The Outsiders has Sally Ann and Hasil. 

Is Into the Badlands cancelled?  Cuz Veil and Sunny are a couple. 

[Ohwell]

58 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

The Outsiders has Sally Ann and Hasil. 

I forgot about those two.  I'm pulling for them but I'm not betting on them living a happy life.

[jhlipton]

10 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Is Into the Badlands cancelled?  Cuz Veil and Sunny are a couple. 

 No, it was renewed.  The exploits of the Widow (she's the star of the show, right?) et al continue in 2017.

Edited August 12, 2016 by jhlipton

[paulvdb]

There was also Zoe on Scream. Of course she dated Noah which meant that she ended up dead (his previous (Asian) girlfriend was also killed).

[Kromm]

Ellen Degeneres is getting hell--in my opinion unjustly--for this tweet:

Somewhere in the back of our minds, most of us have likely have historical image of some white person (usually a child) riding a black servant/slave saved up. But I don't think that was what Ellen was shooting for here at all, and the assumption that this wasn't simply a race-blind joke playing on Usain Bolt's "fastest man alive" rep. is the disturbing thing to me.  How quickly someone like Ellen, who's been fairly sensitive to issues like race, gender, sexuality etc. for her entire career gets turned on (and I bet by now people defending her have been turned on too). 

It's not a great joke worth defending as humor. It's dumb. But when context is forced onto something? That's its own problem. But even there, I'm waiting to see if people are willing to accept the idea that there's a difference between accidentally offending people with a context cue which goes wrong and one which is intended.  We shall see.

[supposebly]

The sad thing is that accusing Ellen of being racially insensitive in this context basically reduces Usain Bolt to his race instead of his being a really fast individual. So, I'm not sure who is really the racist here.

I do wonder about social media sometimes, people just twittering away without thinking. The lines are so  blurry between talking without thinking to one or a few people as opposed to twittering without thinking, making it permanent and for all the world to see.

So much stupid crap people say all day, now it's permanently in the universe.

[Irlandesa]

The picture evokes images we've seen from the times of slavery.  I don't think it's racist to see that if that's what it looks like even if that likely wasn't its intent.  It can be both.

This was Ellen's response.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/08/ellen-degeneres-responds-to-usain-bolt-meme-backlash.html?mid=twitter_vulture

I do think a "oops, that was tone deaf" would've been better.

[galax-arena]

Quote

How quickly someone like Ellen, who's been fairly sensitive to issues like race

...Yeah, I disagree with this. 

That said, I wouldn't have figured out the implications of Ellen's pic if it hadn't been pointed out... but I'm not black. (And I know there are black people who don't think it was racist, either; I don't mean to suggest that the black community is a monolith!) 

I think what made me roll my eyes more than the initial image was when she said that racism was the furthest thing from what she was. LOL. Yeah, not so much, Ellen. Please tell me how you're the furthest thing from being a racist. Is it because you don't even see color? Do you have a lot of black staffers - er, friends? It certainly couldn't be because you've never made fun of names for not being whitebread enough for you. 

Edited August 17, 2016 by galax-arena

[BoogieBurns]

At worst, I saw it as a corny joke. People can be offended if they want, I just wasn't. Much more offended by Bahamas diving into the finish line to beat Allyson Felix. But that's off topic. 

[SistaLadybug]

Historical context is a thing that exists.  It isn't being forced on Ellen or on her tweet.  No one is required to be offended by anything, of course, but to basically wave away people who are doesn't get us any further toward understanding one another and absolutely doesn't make people feel comfortable enough to share how and why they saw racially offensive implications in the tweet.  If the beginning of the discussion is basically, "Being offended by this is silly", where do we go from there?

There is a difference between doing a racist thing and being a racist, just as someone can lie and I wouldn't label them a liar.  I'm not claiming to know anything about Ellen's character.  But the moment I saw that, I was horrified and thought to myself, "If she doesn't get why these optics are really bad, I'm flabbergasted".  There are centuries of history behind the problems we face in this country (and around the world., really).  The tweet was tacky, ill-considered, and offensive to many.  Saying "Well, yeah, White folks used to ride Black folks but that was long ago so no one should be upset about this" is insensitive.

[Sparger Springs]

I've been thinking about the over representation of biracial actress or  biracial appearing actresses today.  People are so excited about Zendaya being Mary Jane in the new Spider-Man.  Wake me when a woman darker than a brown paper bag gets a major role in a Marvel or DC movie.  I know Viola get to play a bitch in Suicide Squad.  Amanda Waller is a sexless old black lady.  Older dark actresses can get a role being mean or in charge of something. The younger ones under 30 are blatantly off limits for the average main stream movie.  

Still waiting for the rest of the cast  to be announced in the Black Panther movie. Willing to bet the love interest in this movie will be a biracial actress. I don't expect Lupita and Danai to actually have a major role of any substance. Every time a black actress gets a role in one of these movies she is biracial. Zendaya, Alexandra Shipp, Tess Thomas, Zoe Kravitz, and the original movie storm Halle Berry. I was on a gossip site this morning and people were making fun of Simon Biles for picking Zendaya to play her in a future movie about her life. There are very few young dark actresses that are known for her to pick from. This is a real problem. I remember everybody going in and being all excited that Lupita was in Star Wars. Then the movie comes out and she is a cgi character. Lupita came out and said she was excited and it was her choice to be cgi.  What were her other options for Star Wars?  Rae, nah uh.   Saw the new Star Wars trailer not one black woman. I'm sure there will be one sitting or standing with maybe one line, if we are lucky.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Sparger Springs

[selkie]

On 8/10/2016 at 6:58 AM, Neurochick said:

  In the show "Southland" why did Regina King's character have to be the unwed mother?  Why did she have to be alone, with a baby?  I felt like I have seen that character 4784993 times already.

Because at that point "Southland" was on its third or fourth group of showrunners who did not have the originality or talent to keep the show what it had been and decided to pretty much wreck every single character. Season 4 (the Lydia pregnancy season) was not nearly as awful as the fifth season I refuse to rewatch but looking back, all the elements of eventual suck were in place at that point.

I still hate Jay Leno for agreeing to the early Tonight Show and pretty much killing Southland as it should have been and we briefly saw in seasons 1 and 2.

[DearEvette]

I don;t know why, but thinking of Regina King on Southland made me think of Tracy on Rookie Blue.  Also a single mother with a deadbeat ex.  The only one of the rookies with a kid.  She did get a nice love interest though with Det. Jerry, but then they went and offed him. Then she started up with Steve who in the end was a dirty cop. Between her role as stalwart single mom, her unlucky love life and her rapidly disappearing screen time, she couldn't catch a break.

[Neurochick]

9 hours ago, Sparger Springs said:

I've been thinking about the over representation of biracial actress or  biracial appearing actresses today.  People are so excited about Zendaya being Mary Jane in the new Spider-Man.  Wake me when a woman darker than a brown paper bag gets a major role in a Marvel or DC movie.  I know Viola get to play a bitch in Suicide Squad.  Amanda Waller is a sexless old black lady.  Older dark actresses can get a role being mean or in charge of something. The younger ones under 30 are blatantly off limits for the average main stream movie.  

Still waiting for the rest of the cast  to be announced in the Black Panther movie. Willing to bet the love interest in this movie will be a biracial actress. I don't expect Lupita and Danai to actually have a major role of any substance. Every time a black actress gets a role in one of these movies she is biracial. Zendaya, Alexandra Shipp, Tessa Thompson, Zoe Kravitz, and the original movie storm Halle Berry. I was on a gossip site this morning and people were making fun of Simon Biles for picking Zendaya to play her in a future movie about her life. There are very few young dark actresses that are known for her to pick from. This is a real problem. I remember everybody going in and being all excited that Lupita was in Star Wars. Then the movie comes out and she is a cgi character. Lupita came out and said she was excited and it was her choice to be cgi.  What were her other options for Star Wars?  Rae, nah uh.   Saw the new Star Wars trailer not one black woman. I'm sure there will be one sitting or standing with maybe one line, if we are lucky.

This is a very good point.  When I was a teenager, if you were light skinned, you couldn't get cast as a black woman; now that has changed.  I think it's changed simply because there are more biracial people alive now, than there were forty years ago.  I also read this about the 2010 census, which could also be a reason.  I think it's the same also with Hispanics, I mean Lauren Velez has been around a lot longer than Jennifer Lopez, yes Lopez is more well known.

I do have to disagree with one name that you mentioned, Tessa Thompson, she's been around for a LONG time in mainly indie roles and one web series, and I'm glad that she's finally getting some A list roles.  

But the other interesting thing is what I said before; you only mentioned women's names.  What's interesting is that Hollywood will often cast brown skinned men in movies and TV shows, but not women.  I think that has a lot to do with what people think is and isn't feminine, which is a shame.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Neurochick

[Kromm]

56 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

This is a very good point.  When I was a teenager, if you were light skinned, you couldn't get cast as a black woman; now that has changed.  I think it's changed simply because there are more biracial people alive now, than there were forty years ago.  I also read this about the 2010 census, which could also be a reason.  I think it's the same also with Hispanics, I mean Lauren Velez has been around a lot longer than Jennifer Lopez, yes Lopez is more well known.

I think this is a landmine for people to talk about. Because quite legitimately some might find light skin more attractive, whereas another group only believe so because of long-term cultural conditioning. There's definitely no one explanation. 

I'll actually be brave and state that I don't think it's even about black girls or Hispanic girls passing for white anymore (although it might have been at one point). I think the ebb and flow of history, of our entire species, shows a tendency to like the results of genetic merging.  There's a lot of empirical data around that as a society we consider "mixed" people especially attractive. Look at who a lot of the currently successful models, actors, and (yes, if you can bear looking into it) porn stars are. Look at how countries that had a lot of Imperialistic Colonization by the French and British (examples: Thailand and India) have wound up with the extra genes in their population and now regularly get on "beautiful people" lists [note this is not a defense of Imperialism, where a lot of those genes got planted by rape]. Even in the US, while their lives were polluted by the "one drop" theory (one drop of "black" makes you "black", although the actual word used started with an "N"), I think there's been a long-term tendency to believe that people who were once known by named like "mulatto", "quadroon", "octoroon" (and now are just "mixed race" if anything is used at all) were attractive.  It got all tangled up with "passing" not IMO because that was a dividing line they had to pass to finally be "optimal", but because of the whole "one drop" thing. To avoid the consequences. 

I know how sensitive a subject this is, for both dark skinned AND in a different way for light skinned folks. Because even if all of that were true (that on some level there might be a big impetus towards genetic diversity boosting it) that the thing about people is that they aren't computers all running the same "program". A good part of what we think is attractive is what we're told is attractive. And a lot of that, even still, is formed by white people. So if a lot of white society finds mixed-race people especially attractive?  So what.  That shouldn't be the only voice represented in casting.  And more representation over time will change more minds than a total absence. This of course doesn't even get near the version of this debate internally within the black and Latino communities about what THEY prefer/favor, which I know gets a lot more acrimonious than contemplating what the white people like.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Kromm

[Neurochick]

11 hours ago, Kromm said:

A good part of what we think is attractive is what we're told is attractive. And a lot of that, even still, is formed by white people. So if a lot of white society finds mixed-race people especially attractive?  So what.  That shouldn't be the only voice represented in casting.

I agree.  And there is also the sexism element.  For instance, Idris Elba, Taye Diggs, Morris Chestnut can all play romantic leads and that's fine; but women of their complexion don't have the same opportunities.  Brown skinned men seem to be seen as attractive and sexy, while brown skinned women are not.  That's a huge issue and a problem.  

When Zendaya was rumored to play Aaliyah in a biopic on Lifetime, people got upset; so what happened?  Alexandra Shipp played her.  Shipp is also biracial, but did not have as high a profile as Zendaya.  

[Sparger Springs]

12 hours ago, Kromm said:

I know how sensitive a subject this is, for both dark skinned AND in a different way for light skinned folks. Because even if all of that were true (that on some level there might be a big impetus towards genetic diversity boosting it) that the thing about people is that they aren't computers all running the same "program". A good part of what we think is attractive is what we're told is attractive. And a lot of that, even still, is formed by white people. So if a lot of white society finds mixed-race people especially attractive?  So what.  That shouldn't be the only voice represented in casting.  And more representation over time will change more minds than a total absence. This of course doesn't even get near the version of this debate internally within the black and Latino communities about what THEY prefer/favor, which I know gets a lot more acrimonious than contemplating what the white people like.

There was a study done that said when people were told a person was biracial they would be rated more attractive than if they were told they were monoracial. It didn't matter the complexion.  https://sites.duke.edu/dukeresearch/2016/08/10/beauty-is-in-the-ear-of-the-beholder-too/

Basically we are giving people exotic points.  Oh her mommy is white, she is so pretty. Same girl 2 black parent she allright. 

[JBC344]

On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 9:05 AM, Sparger Springs said:

I've been thinking about the over representation of biracial actress or  biracial appearing actresses today.  People are so excited about Zendaya being Mary Jane in the new Spider-Man.  Wake me when a woman darker than a brown paper bag gets a major role in a Marvel or DC movie.  I know Viola get to play a bitch in Suicide Squad.  Amanda Waller is a sexless old black lady.  Older dark actresses can get a role being mean or in charge of something. The younger ones under 30 are blatantly off limits for the average main stream movie.  

Still waiting for the rest of the cast  to be announced in the Black Panther movie. Willing to bet the love interest in this movie will be a biracial actress. I don't expect Lupita and Danai to actually have a major role of any substance. Every time a black actress gets a role in one of these movies she is biracial. Zendaya, Alexandra Shipp, Tess Thomas, Zoe Kravitz, and the original movie storm Halle Berry. I was on a gossip site this morning and people were making fun of Simon Biles for picking Zendaya to play her in a future movie about her life. There are very few young dark actresses that are known for her to pick from. This is a real problem. I remember everybody going in and being all excited that Lupita was in Star Wars. Then the movie comes out and she is a cgi character. Lupita came out and said she was excited and it was her choice to be cgi.  What were her other options for Star Wars?  Rae, nah uh.   Saw the new Star Wars trailer not one black woman. I'm sure there will be one sitting or standing with maybe one line, if we are lucky.

You bring up a lot of great points, but I disagree with you on the Viola Davis casting.  Amanda Waller is an incredibly popular respected comic book character.  Mostly respected and popular because she is in charge and takes no bull, and didn't get to where she was by showing her ass or being someone's love interest.  The reviews for Suicide Squad were mixed but Viola and Amanda Waller were highly praised as actress and character. 

[Sparger Springs]

3 hours ago, JBC344 said:

You bring up a lot of great points, but I disagree with you on the Viola Davis casting.  Amanda Waller is an incredibly popular respected comic book character.  Mostly respected and popular because she is in charge and takes no bull, and didn't get to where she was by showing her ass or being someone's love interest.  The reviews for Suicide Squad were mixed but Viola and Amanda Waller were highly praised as actress and character. 

Amanda Waller in the comics is a 300 lb dark skinned black lady.   We never ever see that representation of black women. 

Edited August 27, 2016 by Sparger Springs