S05.E08: Hardhome

[SimoneS]

I spent the whole night and this morning racking my brain trying to remember where I know actress who played the Wilding women from. Finally, it hit me, she played Katrine in Borgen, the excellent Danish political drama. Too bad the character is dead, the actress is good.

 

I was surprised Dolorious Edd was alive also. I don't know how he made it out of that tent alive, maybe the Giant saved him. Do we know the name of the Giant? I quite liked him.

 

I wonder if Daenerys will meet up with Jon before he encounters the whitewalkers again? I think the dragons' fire will be the main weapon to destroy the whitewalkers. In the meanwhile, I hope Jon and Daenerys arm their fighters with dragon glass. There is not  much Valyrian steel around. 

Edited June 1, 2015 by SimoneS

[Primetimer]

Jon and Tormund try to talk the rest of the Wildlings into relocating south of the Wall before the -- oops, never mind.

Read the story

[DrSpaceman]

Well after 5 seasons, winter is finally here. 

 

At least for the Wildings. 

 

Jesus......what an intense and altogether frightening, horrifying scene. 

 

Hurray for the Giant, I want more of him.  Though I do wonder what he was planning on doing and how deep that see is, how big he actually is as well.  He can't just WALK to the wall through the sea. 

 

Apparetentely the walkers can't swim.  Or build a boat.  Good thing. 

 

I thought Jon Snow was a goner. 

[terrymct]

Cersei in that prison, if she confessed she would get her punishment and go back to being Queen. Then she could get back at that Septa. As for Tommen, Cersei told him he can't barge in with soldiers or else he would start a war so she truly screwed herself. I assume he's starving himself to death to at least trying to. I suspect her in incest charge is with Lancel since he is her cousin and not Jaime or else they would have to declare Tommen illegitimate.

 

I suspect that even if she confessed that her punishment wouldn't involve allowing her to go back to being queen.  The Sparrows seem to have some rather straight and narrow views and incest falls rather far out from between the lines.

 

On another subject, I was glad that the giant made it out into the water and wasn't turned into a wight/zombie.  That would be, uh, unfortunate for the people trying to fight the wights.

Edited June 1, 2015 by terrymct

[paigow]

I envisioned many of them yelling, "game over, man, game over!"

 

Behold the mysterious saviour.....

[One Tough Cookie]

He could die killing Ramsay and saving Sansa.

 

 

No, I want Sana to kill Ramsey.  Slowly.  And painfully.

[Lady S.]

Hurray for the Giant, I want more of him.  Though I do wonder what he was planning on doing and how deep that see is, how big he actually is as well.  He can't just WALK to the wall through the sea. 

 

Apparetentely the walkers can't swim.  Or build a boat.  Good thing.

Maybe they're strictly land travelers, like the Dothraki.

 

Wun Wun the giant was definitely a highlight. I loved getting a translation of giantspeak when Edd was staring at him.

But he understood the Common Tongue enough to say Tormund's name during their little vote, and before that he made noises reacting to the news of Mance's death. I was super worried for Edd but then Wun Wun busted right through the building's walls and I guess Edd went with him. So we lost Karsi too soon, but the Lord o' Bones got his head smashed in, a Thenn got sliced by a WW, Edd pulled through and so did Wun Wun and the gloriously ginger-bearded Wyndam Wizard, while Jon's plot armor held strong and he even fucking killed a WW, so I think the casualty ratio of "good" guys vs. bad lost was actually pretty good, at least among named characters.

 

I suspect that even if she confessed that her punishment wouldn't involve allowing her to go back to being queen.  The Sparrows seem to have some rather straight and narrow views and incest falls rather far out from between the lines.

That, and Uncle Kevan's not gonna let her near the council chamber again or probably not alone with Tommen. Though if he really wants to punish her for making his son an accessory to regicide and playing a role in Lancel's embarrassing extremism, then he could also cut off her wine supply if/when she gets back to the castle. Edited June 1, 2015 by Lady S.

[islandgal140]

The entire time I was scared to death the giant would get turned and good lawd would the Crows and the Wildlings be fucked! I am getting my undead lore mixed up. So apparently you don't have to be bitten or scratched by the Wights or anything to turn. You have to be killed and then risen by a White Walker? Is that how it goes? 

 

That woman wildling leader was amazing but I knew as soon as she put her children in that boat and told them she would see them soon she was a goner.

 

I am not finding an inch of sympathy or compassion for Cersei. I want to drink her tears. Hell, I want to compose a song to them "Tears of a Cersei" and have Bronn sing it. She really raised some extreme sons. One was an absolute hateful psychopath and the other a complete jellyfish. 

 

I am just gonna come out and say it - Tormund is hot. So is Ser Jorah who is an older elegant gentleman. 

[beeble]

If I were Sansa, I would think long and hard about LittleFinger's role in all of this. I may not kill him, but I'd smack him around for a few months. He knew how sadistic the Boltons were and he must have known that Sansa would go through hell. Sorry Sansa, no man is going to come and save you. Not now, not ever. 

 

But first things first. She has to get these damn Boltons out of her house. She needs to find her friends in the north, and then find her brothers, and maybe borrow their dire wolves for a bit.

 

And there will be much bigger fish to fry if/when the white walkers/wights get over the wall. 

 

Tyrian needs to develop some sort of dragon stone bomb that a dragon can carry and drop on all of the undead. Help us Tyrian, you're our only hope.

[Philbert]

 

That's how you do an episode-  a nail biter and great to watch, no rape needed.

 

Although the argument can be made that the Wildlings just got metaphorically raped...on a massive scale.

[annsterg]

If Cersei were really as smart as she thinks she is, she'd confess...to sex with Lancel ONLY.

 

Not sure if the "incest" referred to is the Lancel sex (probably not as relations between cousins are not all that frowned upon) or Jaime sex.

 

There is NO PROOF of anything Lancel said, regarding murder or anything else. It's basically her word against his -- Selmy who was on the hunt with the fortified wine is long gone...

 

So Cersei SHOULD confess "Yes, I took Lancel as a lover...I was so devastated when Robert died and war broke out...I needed someone to hold me and figured a family member was safe...I was weak...FORGIVE ME!"

 

She has to get out of the killing the king thing or else she's a goner....and I don't THINK they would kill her off.

 

Question re: Uncle Kevan. Is HE the "Lord" now? Since Tywin's sons are out of the running -- Jaime is in the Kingsguard and Tyrion is an exiled patricide -- does Uncle Kevan now become head of the Lannister family? Does he rule now at Casterly Rock?

[Boilergal]

Karsi was giving Jon some serious eyes - I thought he was gonna be getting busy under the furs later.  But then she put her daughters on a boat and said I'll see you later and I screamed NOOOOO I DON'T WANT HER TO DIE ALREADY.

 

Since it's been a minute since season 1 - did Ned Stark give Jon Snow the Valaryian sword when he took the black?  Did he give one to Robb as well?

 

Loved the Dany Tyrion convo- he is just what she needs.

[annsterg]

Boilergal -- Jon's Valaryian (sp) steel sword was given to him by Lord Commander Mormont. It had been his family's sword, named Longclaw, and he had the bear hilt replaced with a wolf when he gave it to Jon.

 

The only VS sword the Starks had (that we know of) was Ice, the huge sword that Tywin melted down to make 2 swords, one of which Brienne has and the other is either with Tommen or ?? (no way they buried a VS sword with Joff).

Edited June 1, 2015 by annsterg

[cal]

 

I spent the end of that creepy scene yelling, "Less staring, more frantic rowing! GOOOOOOO!"

 

So much WORD on this.  All I could think is, "Why are you just sitting there staring!?!?!?  I'd be rowing like a motherfucker!"

 

 

Sam's conversation with Olly feels like it is going to be important, but I can't figure out why...this is the second time the boy has made a case of why he believes what Jon is doing is wrong.

 

I was thinking there was something off about that whole conversation.  And then when Sam said his bit about doing something that might feel "wrong" but was "right" in the long run, I got this funny feeling that the food Olly brought was poisoned.  The pause that Olly had at the end, looking back at Sam and then the focus on Sam holding the tray of food seemed to reinforce that notion.  I'm wondering if Jon's enemies convinced Olly to help get rid of Jon's remaining supporters (and Sam has never been well-loved by most of the Night's Watch).  I hope that I'm wrong, that Sam is okay.

[annsterg]

I just know that kid Olly is going to cause some serious shit for Jon.

 

If -- as I speculate -- Ser Aliser does not let Jon and the Wildlings through the gate at Castle Black when they arrive -- what about that other way that Bran and company got through, that Sam knows about?

[Otherkate]

 

So much WORD on this.  All I could think is, "Why are you just sitting there staring!?!?!?  I'd be rowing like a motherfucker!"

 

Hah, yes, me too. Row, god damn it, ROW!!! I also completely thought that the White Walker was doing a "come at me, bro" motion and thought it was both terrifying and hilarious. Then it just became terrifying. 

 

This episode was so satisfying and I can't stop thinking about it. There were so many good parts but all I can think about was that battle. I need to rewatch, I think.  Am I losing my mind  -- who is this Uncle Kevin?

[annsterg]

Uncle Kevan is Tywin's younger brother and Lancel's father. We saw him with Tywin in early episodes -- he was one of Tywin's primary military commanders.

 

This season, he stomped out of a Small Council meeting in disgust/contempt with Cersei and booked for Casterly Rock....and now he's back and Hand of the King. Good, because someone sane has to keep shit together in KL.

 

That nasty old Pycelle must be chuckling with glee at Cersei's downfall...she made her dislike of him far too obvious.

 

I thought FOR SURE what Arya would see on her walkabout would be Meryn Trant escorting Mace Tyrell.

Edited June 1, 2015 by annsterg

[JTMacc99]

Cersei: Sorry show, you are not going to make me feel sorry for her. She has it coming. I might, might have gained a little respect for her if she beat the crap out of the nun guard, because we are so used to seeing Cersei wave her hand while other people do her dirty work for her. Maybe it will still happen.

I'm not sure if the show was trying to make me feel sorry for her.  I think it was trying to make me think, "Oh man, if she actually gets out of here, she's going to be even meaner than before." 

[Otherkate]

Uncle Kevan is Tywin's younger brother and Lancel's father. We saw him with Tywin in early episodes -- he was one of Tywin's primary military commanders.

 

This season, he stomped out of a Small Council meeting in disgust/contempt with Cersei and booked for Casterly Rock....and now he's back and Hand of the King. Good, because someone sane has to keep shit together in KL.

 

 

Ahhh...okay, thank you!

[HumblePi]

If I were Sansa, I would think long and hard about LittleFinger's role in all of this. I may not kill him, but I'd smack him around for a few months. He knew how sadistic the Boltons were and he must have known that Sansa would go through hell. Sorry Sansa, no man is going to come and save you. Not now, not ever. 

 

But first things first. She has to get these damn Boltons out of her house. She needs to find her friends in the north, and then find her brothers, and maybe borrow their dire wolves for a bit.

 

And there will be much bigger fish to fry if/when the white walkers/wights get over the wall. 

 

Tyrian needs to develop some sort of dragon stone bomb that a dragon can carry and drop on all of the undead. Help us Tyrian, you're our only hope.

A whole bunch of dragon-breath just might do the job

[LuciaMia]

So anybody killed by the Whitewalkers and their wights can be resurrected as a wight themselves.  But do they continue to physically decompose?  Like the sight of that awful boy with the exposed ribs?

 

Also, has there ever been any mention of the Whitewalker's motivation?  Or do we just assume it's the desire for total domination, like every other character of GoT.

[HumblePi]

I want Cersei's dungeon cell door to open slowly and 'Black Jack' Randall from Outlander is suddenly tossed in naked. They could cut the scene right there as far as I'm concerned.

[EyesGlazed]

They should have titled this episode "Holy Fucking Shit!"  Wow the WW, the wights, the battles, it was all terrifying and amazing.

 

If that little shit Olly ends up killing Jon Snow because he thinks it's "right", I will burst through the TV screen wight-style and strangle him.

[Constantinople]

Also, has there ever been any mention of the Whitewalker's motivation?  Or do we just assume it's the desire for total domination, like every other character of GoT.

 

Lannister, Targaryen, Baratheon, Stark, Tyrell.

They're all just spokes on a wheel.

This one's on top, then that one's on top.

And on and on it spins, crushing those on the ground.

 

They're not going to stop the wheel.

They're going to break the wheel.

[KYBlonde]

 

The Darth Maul one raised New Wights and was like Come at me Bro!

 

I was expecting him (as he was raising his arms), to drop a microphone and moonwalk backwards off the pier.  That would be awesome if they ever make a parody of this scene!

 

Also the undead breaking into Thriller zombie dancers!  I will be backing off my coffee for the rest of the day!!

[proserpina65]

Who played the Wildling lady? She was awesome before she got eaten and turned into a zom...I mean white walker.

Zombie was correct.  Or more accurately, a wight, which is what the army of reanimated dead is comprised of.  Those commanders on horseback are White Walkers.  Two separate and distinct things.  The White Walkers create wights out of the dead.

[Lady S.]

Question re: Uncle Kevan. Is HE the "Lord" now? Since Tywin's sons are out of the running -- Jaime is in the Kingsguard and Tyrion is an exiled patricide -- does Uncle Kevan now become head of the Lannister family? Does he rule now at Casterly Rock?

We were discussing in an earlier thread whether Kevan or Cersei was next in line for the Rock since it hasn't been addressed onscreen, but it still hasn't. All I can say is that the viewer's guide already has him updated as King's Hand, but the description doesn't list him as Lord of Casterly Rock and Warden of the West, even though Mace Tyrell is listed as Lord of Highgarden and Warden of the South.

 

Since it's been a minute since season 1 - did Ned Stark give Jon Snow the Valaryian sword when he took the black?  Did he give one to Robb as well?

It was a gift from his surrogate father and predecessor, who was also Jorah's dad.

Ned did have a great big honking VS sword named Ice, but he had it with him in King's Landing and was actually executed with it.

 

Then Tywin had it melted down to celebrate the Red Wedding and re-forged the steel into 2 swords for Jaime and Joffrey. Jaime gave his to Brienne, who named it Oathkeeper. Joffrey named his Widow's Wail, and was holding while lying in state during Septgate, but he was also wearing his crown which I'm pretty sure is the same one Tommen got, so no reason to think he was buried with it. (Also he could well have been cremated for all we know.)  I'm guessing Tommen inherited Widow's Wail along with Joff's crown, so it's probably gathering dust in a corner somewhere.

 

So anybody killed by the Whitewalkers and their wights can be resurrected as a wight themselves.  But do they continue to physically decompose?  Like the sight of that awful boy with the exposed ribs?

 

Also, has there ever been any mention of the Whitewalker's motivation?  Or do we just assume it's the desire for total domination, like every other character of GoT.

I would assume they do continue to decompose and that's what happened to that li'l wight, I doubt there are that many intact skeletons lying around. The wildlings burn their dead and any corpses left unattended in the woods would probably be found by wild animals before the white walkers got to them. 

 

I don't believe anyone's ever said one word about the WWs' motivation, their mystery is part of why they're so scary. The first "Long Night" (as Jon Snow termed the upcoming wintry apocalypse) was thousands of years ago.

[DarkRaichu]

We were discussing in an earlier thread whether Kevan or Cersei was next in line for the Rock since it hasn't been addressed onscreen, but it still hasn't. All I can say is that the viewer's guide already has him updated as King's Hand, but the description doesn't list him as Lord of Casterly Rock and Warden of the West, even though Mace Tyrell is listed as Lord of Highgarden and Warden of the South.

 

Cersei is technically still part of House Barratheon by marriage and most likely lost the claim to Castlery Rock.

Kevan was preceding over the small council, but was he formally using the title Hand of King ?  I meant Cersei preceded over the council but she clearly said she was not the Hand.

[Ambrosefolly]

Then Tywin had it melted down to celebrate the Red Wedding and re-forged the steel into 2 swords for Jaime and Joffrey. Jaime gave his to Brienne, who named it Oathkeeper. Joffrey named his Widow's Wail, and was holding while lying in state during Septgate, but he was also wearing his crown which I'm pretty sure is the same one Tommen got, so no reason to think he was buried with it. (Also he could well have been cremated for all we know.)  I'm guessing Tommen inherited Widow's Wail along with Joff's crown, so it's probably gathering dust in a corner somewhere.

 

 

I really hope that House Stark gets both those swords back. Reforge it back into Ice or alter both of them and give one to House Reed for their service to the realm.

[Rocket]

Yep the wight or zombies are made the old fashioned story way, raised by a necromancer. In this case the necromancers are not human ether, not uncommon in tales often necromancers are also demons. A Norse (Viking) saga has a women Skuld raised by dark elfs as a powerful necromancer. If you meet the other Norse Skuld the Valkyrie coming for you your dead as that Skuld is also the Norn of the Future who's power is basically infinite and decides when everyone dies.

I noticed some wights had decayed down to skeleton status which is the other type of undead a necromancer can raise.

Whitewalker motivation from tales is basically to take everything over but as mentioned earlier that's everyones motivation. Only difference is that Whitewalkers don't want any live subjects it seams.

[proserpina65]

Has it been ever mentioned in the show that there are Wights and White Walkers? I don't recall that.

I believe Sam talked about that in Season 2, while the Night's Watch was at the Fist of the First Men.

[CletusMusashi]

I don't understand what Jorah hopes to accomplish. Dany sent him away for a second time, but he's trying to come back yet again. Why? What does he think is going to happen?

Next time he'll bring... a bigger dwarf?

Yeah. the guy seriously needs some advice about women.

[luckyroll3]

I was expecting him (as he was raising his arms), to drop a microphone and moonwalk backwards off the pier.  That would be awesome if they ever make a parody of this scene!

 

Also the undead breaking into Thriller zombie dancers!  I will be backing off my coffee for the rest of the day!!

He was all, "Fuck, yeah, I just stole your entire army!  And what?"  The look of utter disbelief on the face of everyone in that canoe, so much so, that the oars were stopped in mid air, was beyond priceless.  Great fucking scene!!

[Philbert]

 

Also, has there ever been any mention of the Whitewalker's motivation?  Or do we just assume it's the desire for total domination, like every other character of GoT.

 

 

In the show, no. I think we can infer from his actions here, that the "Lord of Night" wants to cover the world in ice and snow and turn everybody into either a white Walker or a wight (ice-zombie). Why he's doing it we don't know. Maybe like me, he just doesn't care for the heat?

[VCRTracking]

I've been thinking for a couple of seasons now the whitewalkers and their army of the dead were going to overrun Westeros, and Dany would have to come in with her three dragons to save everybody.

[Philbert]

 

he look of utter disbelief on the face of everyone in that canoe, so much so, that the oars were stopped in mid air, was beyond priceless.  Great fucking scene!!

 

My favorite part is when the ice zombie throw themselves over the ridge as a horrified Jon and Ed watch. When they get up again and charge...the look on Ed's face is priceless. It pretty much screams "Okay, I've had about enough of this mystical Tom-Fuckery!"

[DarkRaichu]

In the show, no. I think we can infer from his actions here, that the "Lord of Night" wants to cover the world in ice and snow and turn everybody into either a white Walker or a wight (ice-zombie). Why he's doing it we don't know. Maybe like me, he just doesn't care for the heat?

They all had daddy issues for being abandoned in the cold as babies.  They just wanted the whole world to suffer and feel their pains :D

 

#EmoWhiteWalkers

Edited June 1, 2015 by DarkRaichu

[monakane]

 

Apparetentely the walkers can't swim.  Or build a boat.  Good thing

 

I'm guessing that the water will freeze as winter advances and they will be able to walk across.

[DarkRaichu]

I'm guessing that the water will freeze as winter advances and they will be able to walk across.

When WW King raised his hands, I thought he was going to freeze the bay to trap Jon and co.  What they showed on screen was much effective than my idea :D

[Philbert]

 

They all had daddy issues for being abandoned in the cold as babies.  They just wanted the whole world to suffer and feel their pains :D

 

In that case they need to start with Cersei, the "Queen" of daddy issues. Matter of fact, considering she's half made out of ice anyway shouldn't be that difficult for old Frost Burn to manage it. Actually she's probably be pretty hot as a White Walker (ess).

[beeble]

I'm guessing there is a difference between the Caster babies who are taken by the White Walkers and placed on the glam-rock stage, and the undead wights. Otherwise undead zombie babies would really be a massive pain in the ass.

[Duke Silver]

Best episode of the season, which by itself isn't saying much.

 

Minimal Sam + Gilly is always good for me; Dorne has been a huge disappointment, so no scenes there helped as well.

 

ITA w/ those giving props to the battle scene; that was awesome.  Dany + Tyrion was good as well.  I do my best to remain unspoiled, so I keep waiting for Bran to reappear....w/ a bit of dread because I wasn't much entertained by the vast majority of his story in the past.

 

The evolution of Jon Snow, to me, has been one of the most interesting aspects of the show.  Good job this week show, and I hope the momentum continues.

[whiskeyandfeet]

I don't understand what Jorah hopes to accomplish. Dany sent him away for a second time, but he's trying to come back yet again. Why? What does he think is going to happen?

Right? She's just not that into you, dude!

[Catherinewriter]

Damn, I'm going to miss Joanna Wilding. I hoped she would be a major character.

 

What's with the almost useless walls? Compare them, for example, with the walls in Lord of the Rings - the ones at Helms Deep and other places. These are the walls that are supposed to protect them from Winter and the Walkers? Hell's bells.

 

Pool Jon, and all wildings and NW's.  Damn

[Catherinewriter]

There was so much pre-season publicity about Dorne that I'm really disappointed that there's so little about it in the series. Plus, I love Alexander Siddig, or Dr. Bashir.

 

Whoever mentioned Jorah being hot, he's been hot from the beginning. So very different from the creepy boyfriend of Mary in Downton Abbey. 

[proserpina65]

Damn, I'm going to miss Joanna Wilding. I hoped she would be a major character.

 

What's with the almost useless walls? Compare them, for example, with the walls in Lord of the Rings - the ones at Helms Deep and other places. These are the walls that are supposed to protect them from Winter and the Walkers? Hell's bells.

 

Pool Jon, and all wildings and NW's.  Damn

I think the walls at Hardhome were thrown up as temporary shelter, and thus not really well-built.

[Philbert]

 

I'm guessing there is a difference between the Caster babies who are taken by the White Walkers and placed on the glam-rock stage, and the undead wights. Otherwise undead zombie babies would really be a massive pain in the ass.

 

There is a huge difference. The White Walkers (what the Craster kids got turned into) appear to be living, if other worldly creatures, with seemingly high levels of intelligence and organization. The wights (ice zombies) are just brain dead animated corpses. Only the "Lord of Night" though seems to possess the ability to make white walkers and wights. We haven't seen any other white walker do it. One can assume I think that the power resides in him alone. Just what he is...nobody knows.

[HumblePi]

Zombie was correct.  Or more accurately, a wight, which is what the army of reanimated dead is comprised of.  Those commanders on horseback are White Walkers.  Two separate and distinct things.  The White Walkers create wights out of the dead.

you got dat wight

[layniemac]

I was expecting him (as he was raising his arms), to drop a microphone and moonwalk backwards off the pier.  That would be awesome if they ever make a parody of this scene!

 

Also the undead breaking into Thriller zombie dancers!  I will be backing off my coffee for the rest of the day!!

When Karsi saw the zombie children, I had a flash of them doing the Thriller dance. I am glad I am not the only one who went there!

[KYBlonde]

This is an absolutely awesome tribute to Ramsey and Reek:

 

https://www.facebook.com/DaenerysTargaryenTheQueen/videos/693516474093334/