General True Crime Shows

[Josette]

7 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

On Buried in the Backyard about the woman in Salem Oregon the detective was digging up the ‘grave’ and after several feet of dirt spotted knuckles on a human hand. He said he touched them and when he felt that they were ice cold he knew that the person was dead.  Really? Buried under several feet of dirt for weeks/months and ‘ice cold’ was the tipoff that they had died?  LOL

 I thought it was a sort of a silly thing to say as well, but it was a fresh crime scene.  The victim had been buried for hours, not weeks or months.   This was the male victim, not the woman.

[SunnyBeBe]

Okay.  I've just seen this story for the second time. On ID this morning, but, I only watched the first portion when it came to me that I'd seen it before.  I'm just trying to figure out how in the world would a woman meet this guy and not feel like he is WEIRD as hell after 5 minutes and run the other way?  But, no.  This college student MARRIES him.  He became somewhat of a cult type leader, engaging in sex with other men, with his wife's knowledge, and had a spiritual type following of friends. Their friends lived with them.  In an interview husband described HIMSELF as magnetic and a person that others are just captivated by.  REALLY?  He seemed very ODD and even her family could not understand what she saw in this man.  Her sister said even at the wedding, she could see her sister WORSHIPED the guy.  They had big wedding, fancy honeymoon, but, never consummated it. Her name was Bethany Deaton.  She was found dead in her car with a suicide note she supposedly wrote, but, her family refuses to believe it was a suicide.  Another sad story.  Two links about it.

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article3496598.html

https://www.houstonpress.com/news/the-bizarre-christian-sex-cult-death-of-bethany-leidlein-deaton-6750984

[SunnyBeBe]

I had this random thought about what these killers do when they go to prison for a long time.  I found this article.  Pretty interesting.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2018/07/12/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-prisoner

[auntjess]

18 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

On Buried in the Backyard about the woman in Salem Oregon the detective was digging up the ‘grave’ and after several feet of dirt spotted knuckles on a human hand. He said he touched them and when he felt that they were ice cold he knew that the person was dead.  Really? Buried under several feet of dirt for weeks/months and ‘ice cold’ was the tipoff that they had died?  LOL

I really hope there's some back story, that explains why the Salem cops did what they did, because

Spoiler

her family and friends ask for a welfare check, because they can't get in touch with her.
The cops go, find a young couple, wife claims to know the woman, shows them a piece of paper purportedly signed by victim, saying she's leaving town and guy will sell her things and send her the money.
Cops BUY this story, and apparently don't even run the guy's name, because he had a record.
Family had never heard of these folks.
Couldn't she have still been alive but tied up, at the time.

 

[Annber03]

Okay, this guy on the "Web of Lies" episode that's on right now is REALLY pissing me off. What an asshole. 

[Mu Shu]

On 8/19/2019 at 1:09 PM, funky-rat said:

[hoosiermom]

I was glad to see there was a bill in the works for mandating life for a death caused by swatting. This Web of Lies both pissed me off and made me cry.

[Mu Shu]

I’ve been binge watching ID Discovery. Every damn time that weird smiling woman come on in the preview droning on about some people really burns my biscuits. “ They were a very tight knit family...very sincere...very sweet...”

I saw til death do us part-The one with the woman from Ohio who married some military guy and set his bed on fire to wake him up to buy cigarettes. Of course, her moron friend and sister described this fire starter as”...very sweet..” and the friend of COURSE was a “witch”. The mother and sister of the fire starter maybe had 15 teeth between the two, Appalachian dialects, and accused the people in OK of being rednecks who were intolerant of “Yankees” and witches. First of all, OK wasn’t exactly a hotbed of the confederacy, and these hillbilly women accusing other people of being rednecks was pretty ironic. Anyway, the people in OK didn’t like the fire starter because she was an asshole who threatened them with hexes, her being a powerful Wiccan and all . exhibit A-Bored elderly woman-“She threated tuh tern thuh teacher into a Frawg”. 

Long story short, a bunch of bored, ignorant, fatalistic people meeting up and leading miserable lives and continuing the cycle with their kids. Sometimes the “sweet” partner kills the “sweet” other and vice versa. It seems like all the people in these sick little dramas get off on it.

and who the hell believes they can turn some one into a frog, and who is dumb enough to fear it happening? It shocks me that in this day of knowledge at your fingertips people remain so incredibly ignorant. Frankly, I did not even care about the firestarter going missing.  I don’t care about most of these misfits, just the children they place in their destructive midsts. 

[LuvMyShows]

38 minutes ago, hoosiermom said:

I was glad to see there was a bill in the works for mandating life for a death caused by swatting. This Web of Lies both pissed me off and made me cry.

Oh my God, so sad about the innocent guy and his daughter.  Just goes to show that events can have ramifications beyond anyone's imagination.  It's too bad the perps don't give a sh*t about that.

[funky-rat]

I swore that I heard about this case somewhere - on some show.  I thought maybe Unsolved Mysteries or Cold Case Files, but I'm not finding the connection in my search.  So much of it sounded so familiar.

Glad to see old cases get solved.  Sad they lost some of the evidence, but I would think they had the fingerprints lifted off the item.  And he can't escape the DNA.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/he-applied-for-a-job-—-and-ended-up-on-trial-for-a-murder-that-took-place-20-years-earlier/ar-AAG7jTp?ocid=spartandhp

[geekgirl921]

2 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

I’ve been binge watching ID Discovery. Every damn time that weird smiling woman come on in the preview droning on about some people really burns my biscuits. “ They were a very tight knit family...very sincere...very sweet...”

I saw til death do us part-The one with the woman from Ohio who married some military guy and set his bed on fire to wake him up to buy cigarettes. Of course, her moron friend and sister described this fire starter as”...very sweet..” and the friend of COURSE was a “witch”. The mother and sister of the fire starter maybe had 15 teeth between the two, Appalachian dialects, and accused the people in OK of being rednecks who were intolerant of “Yankees” and witches. First of all, OK wasn’t exactly a hotbed of the confederacy, and these hillbilly women accusing other people of being rednecks was pretty ironic. Anyway, the people in OK didn’t like the fire starter because she was an asshole who threatened them with hexes, her being a powerful Wiccan and all . exhibit A-Bored elderly woman-“She threated tuh tern thuh teacher into a Frawg”. 

Long story short, a bunch of bored, ignorant, fatalistic people meeting up and leading miserable lives and continuing the cycle with their kids. Sometimes the “sweet” partner kills the “sweet” other and vice versa. It seems like all the people in these sick little dramas get off on it.

and who the hell believes they can turn some one into a frog, and who is dumb enough to fear it happening? It shocks me that in this day of knowledge at your fingertips people remain so incredibly ignorant. Frankly, I did not even care about the firestarter going missing.  I don’t care about most of these misfits, just the children they place in their destructive midsts. 

Yeah, I don't think either of them were great but I do wonder how much the stuff about the wife was exaggerated because she was different. I do find it disturbing that the son seemed to have no interest in find out what happened to his mother or where she is.

[BigBlueMastiff]

18 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Okay, this guy on the "Web of Lies" episode that's on right now is REALLY pissing me off. What an asshole. 

The asshole's voice was driving me crazy. It is unbelievable how many times this guy swatted people without harm. The whole idea is so frightening, and while I was glad that I don't game, and would never have this happen to me, come to find out the victim, had no involvement in gaming either, smh.

[Brattinella]

43 minutes ago, BigBlueMastiff said:

The asshole's voice was driving me crazy. It is unbelievable how many times this guy swatted people without harm. The whole idea is so frightening, and while I was glad that I don't game, and would never have this happen to me, come to find out the victim, had no involvement in gaming either, smh.

AND the fact that he still doesn't get it.  He thinks it was harmless fun.

[Annber03]

4 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Oh my God, so sad about the innocent guy and his daughter.  Just goes to show that events can have ramifications beyond anyone's imagination.  It's too bad the perps don't give a sh*t about that.

When that woman talked about what happened to her niece at the end...damn. As if that family hadn't suffered enough already. I like that she's calling out the officers who responded for their trigger-happy reaction as well. Just a big shitty mess all around.

1 hour ago, BigBlueMastiff said:

The asshole's voice was driving me crazy. It is unbelievable how many times this guy swatted people without harm. The whole idea is so frightening, and while I was glad that I don't game, and would never have this happen to me, come to find out the victim, had no involvement in gaming either, smh.

I'm honestly amazed that his punishment wasn't significantly stiffer considering he swatted freaking federal government agencies at one point. Couldn't that rise to the level of terroristic threats or something? That's incredibly dangerous. 

I looked up the Wiki page on this incident (here it is for those who wish to read it:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Wichita_swatting ) and apparently the guy who gave Barriss that address picked it because it's where his family used to live and he claimed he'd "be waiting" there. I don't think he had any idea that a new family had moved into his old home. At least, I hope he didn't. 

But yeah. What a horrifyingly stupid thing to do. The whole time I just kept thinking, "Get a life already, for god's sakes." The officer being interviewed was spot on in calling the guy a "punk". Thank God he was dumb enough to brag about his stupid behavior, thus making it easier for him to finally be caught. I don't know what kinds of laws are on the books regarding swatting, but it's clear that it needs to come with serious consequences. We cannot have people out there pulling this kind of dangerous stunt. 

4 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

I saw til death do us part-The one with the woman from Ohio who married some military guy and set his bed on fire to wake him up to buy cigarettes. Of course, her moron friend and sister described this fire starter as”...very sweet..” and the friend of COURSE was a “witch”. The mother and sister of the fire starter maybe had 15 teeth between the two, Appalachian dialects, and accused the people in OK of being rednecks who were intolerant of “Yankees” and witches. First of all, OK wasn’t exactly a hotbed of the confederacy, and these hillbilly women accusing other people of being rednecks was pretty ironic. Anyway, the people in OK didn’t like the fire starter because she was an asshole who threatened them with hexes, her being a powerful Wiccan and all . exhibit A-Bored elderly woman-“She threated tuh tern thuh teacher into a Frawg”. 

Oh, god, that story. Yeah, when they described her as being "very sweet" and how she and her husband "really did love each other" right after the bit about burning the bed, I was just sitting here like: *Side-eye*

Quote

and who the hell believes they can turn some one into a frog, and who is dumb enough to fear it happening? It shocks me that in this day of knowledge at your fingertips people remain so incredibly ignorant.

Right? I especially got a kick out of the daycare lady describing the woman's criticism of schools having kids recite prayer in class as "anti-Christ". Er...no, it's not as simple as that, but okay, lady. 

(Also, for somebody who seemed awfully defensive of the religious attitudes in the area and who came off kind of holier-than-thou, it struck me really weird how she eventually got together with the husband after his wife went missing.)

I do love how the husband tripped himself up, though. "Oh, I know! I'll try and claim I was at Wal-Mart buying camping equipment! That'll convince 'em."

*Officers look at footage from Wal-Mart on the day in question that he uses for his alibi, don't see him buying any camping equipment*

Me: Congratulations, buddy, you played yourself. 

[Fable]

Let me start off by saying, I really appreciate that Web of Lies focuses on different types of internet crimes, not always the online predator.

I’ve heard of SWATting before, and I’m pretty certain I’d even heard of this particular event.  Did this kid (I use that term lightly since I know he was 25) even consider what kind of bear he was poking? 

I don’t know what to make of the responding officer shooting at Andrew.  I’m sure being a police officer is very stressful and often times you have to make a split-second judgment call, but there were a handful of police there and one of him.  Tragic all around!

[nokat]

Bearing false witness is just evil. I consider SWATing that, and reason enough to rot in a jail cell. If you're an officer and go in thinking there is an active shooter, you might be trigger happy. All of the blame should go on the SWATter.
 

[Mu Shu]

Did anyone catch that super boring elderly twin who killed her elderly twin episode? Apparently Khloe Kardashian is involved in the production. Twisted sisters?

Damnit, that stupid ass tight knit, sincere, sweet ad is on again. Can’t stand that smug looking woman and her annoying nasal accent. 

[sskrill]

Katie Phipps and Robin Spielbauer ... Its weird how unlikable she is in the beginning of the episode .. I wonder if that was done on purpose for effect?

That DA starting to cry while talking about keeping her locked up for over a year... that was hard to watch.

But Jeremy killing over child support is pathetic.  Wonder why he wasn't put to death.  I expected better of you Texas.

[renatae]

On 8/21/2019 at 11:41 AM, Mu Shu said:

I saw til death do us part-The one with the woman from Ohio who married some military guy and set his bed on fire to wake him up to buy cigarettes. Of course, her moron friend and sister described this fire starter as”...very sweet..” and the friend of COURSE was a “witch”. The mother and sister of the fire starter maybe had 15 teeth between the two, Appalachian dialects, and accused the people in OK of being rednecks who were intolerant of “Yankees” and witches.

This one really burnt my buns. I felt the same as you - they didn't hate her because she was a "Yankee." They disliked her because she threatened them that she'd put a curse on them for allowing their kids to ride a church bus! What sort of monster sets her husband's mattress on fire for not waking up to go out and buy her smoking supplies upon her whim? All her friend had to say about that was that (giggle) "She was a firecracker." She was a mental case.

I'm not sure that people actually believed she could do those things. I figure if they were upset, it was probably because she was malevolent enough to threaten them over basically nothing.

[SunnyBeBe]

So, a new season of Deadly Women....okay.  One thing that I do like about the show is that they cover several stories, so, they don't go on and on with the same stuff for an hour.  But, I wish that the lead lady, who claims to be a former FBI profiler would actually be more like a profiler.  The descriptions she gives about the killer women are very pedestrian and cliche, like, the woman was jealous, selfish and evil.  Well, that's not a profile.  That's just obvious opinions.  The hosts say the same thing over and over.  A little background and intriguing info would be more interesting.  And, the lady needs a makeover.  Her hair, makeup and clothes are so yesteryear like from 1991 or something.  

Edited August 23, 2019 by SunnyBeBe

[geekgirl921]

8 hours ago, renatae said:

This one really burnt my buns. I felt the same as you - they didn't hate her because she was a "Yankee." They disliked her because she threatened them that she'd put a curse on them for allowing their kids to ride a church bus! What sort of monster sets her husband's mattress on fire for not waking up to go out and buy her smoking supplies upon her whim? All her friend had to say about that was that (giggle) "She was a firecracker." She was a mental case.

I'm not sure that people actually believed she could do those things. I figure if they were upset, it was probably because she was malevolent enough to threaten them over basically nothing.

I don't know, I suspect that she may have done some of that and I also suspect she did some stuff just to stir them up but I also imagine that a lot of it was rumors because she was different.

[Mu Shu]

58 minutes ago, geekgirl921 said:

I don't know, I suspect that she may have done some of that and I also suspect she did some stuff just to stir them up but I also imagine that a lot of it was rumors because she was different.

I think she enjoyed being different and cultivated the rumors. But damn man, this all went down in the mid nineties. When there was accessible and affordable birth control which would prevent you from an early pregnancy, and allow you to get out in the world instead of being tied down in a small town. Somehow, I doubt her town in Ohio was any different. The grandmother sister of about 45 was probably common in her area. Seemed like a family with lots of generational drama. 

The only time I ever heard anyone use the  term Yankee was in Savannah during a house tour. Older, prissy woman who spat it out. Of course, my aunt had to pipe up and tell her that she loved the Yankees, because she was born in the Dominican Republic, where baseball is big, and loved going to Yankee games when they moved to NY. Prissy lady was unamused and had not heard of the DR.

[LuvMyShows]

I'm catching up on previous Dateline episodes so this isn't a particularly current comment, but there was an episode called Before Midnight, about the murder of Pam Zimmerman.  They suspected her ex-husband, but her three kids (young adults now, two twin girls who didn't look anything alike,) didn't think he did it.  For pretty much the first time ever with one of these shows, I didn't think there was enough evidence to convict him and was appalled that the prosecutors would go forward with such a weak case. 

Maybe he really is guilty, but if so, they need more evidence:

• They claimed a financial motive, because she had sent him a letter the night before asking for $3900 for child-related expenses, and said that his lifelong dream of retiring early was threatened.  However...he had a 401K with over $200K in it, he was making $95K salary, and he received a military pension.  So, yeah no.
• They claimed that a car seen on a gas station surveillance camera was his, going past at a time consistent with coming back from murdering Pam.  I'm used to watching shows that try to identify cars on video, and they do all kinds of close-up efforts and trying to get the license plate, etc.  They did nothing; you couldn't even tell what kind of car it was at all.
• There was only one eye-witness, and she happened to see a man leaving Pam's office at the time of the murder.  She identified Pam's ex as that man.  However...she said he drove a black car, but he actually drove a silver car (and there was no suggestion that he was driving a black car that day).  And there was also some testimony seeming to indicate that actually she wasn't sure about the date that she saw the man.

I think that those were the main points that the case hinged on.  He was found not guilty.

[nokat]

5 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

I'm catching up on previous Dateline episodes so this isn't a particularly current comment, but there was an episode called Before Midnight, about the murder of Pam Zimmerman.  They suspected her ex-husband, but her three kids (young adults now, two twin girls who didn't look anything alike,) didn't think he did it.  For pretty much the first time ever with one of these shows, I didn't think there was enough evidence to convict him and was appalled that the prosecutors would go forward with such a weak case.

Maybe he really is guilty, but if so, they need more evidence:

• They claimed a financial motive, because she had sent him a letter the night before asking for $3900 for child-related expenses, and said that his lifelong dream of retiring early was threatened.  However...he had a 401K with over $200K in it, he was making $95K salary, and he received a military pension.  So, yeah no.
• They claimed that a car seen on a gas station surveillance camera was his, going past at a time consistent with coming back from murdering Pam.  I'm used to watching shows that try to identify cars on video, and they do all kinds of close-up efforts and trying to get the license plate, etc.  They did nothing; you couldn't even tell what kind of car it was at all.
• There was only one eye-witness, and she happened to see a man leaving Pam's office at the time of the murder.  She identified Pam's ex as that man.  However...she said he drove a black car, but he actually drove a silver car (and there was no suggestion that he was driving a black car that day).  And there was also some testimony seeming to indicate that actually she wasn't sure about the date that she saw the man.

I think that those were the main points that the case hinged on.  He was found not guilty.

I think that is the jury system working.  If the evidence isn't there, not guilty.
 

[Mu Shu]

I’m just finding the Greek chorus people on these shows annoying. I’d rather they focus on the main players and leave the “she was so sweet!” Yammerers on the cutting room floor.

Some Midwest couple ( aren’t they all?). Droning friend -“She was sooo beautiful. Perfect little bahhhdy. She could have been a mahdul on the runway.” Cut to a cute woman of average height and weight. Not modelesque in the slightest. These people just don’t get out much.

I did enjoy the parrot witness episode, though. Ex wife (who was quite striking) is smart enough to get out after her husbands accident changes his personality for the worst, but seems genuinely sad that it didn’t work out, and mourned his death. She provided clear, objective commentary, as did his friend with the long hair ( super hot May I add.) That segment was well done with sympathetic characters. I doubt I could live with that bird, though. His reenactment of the murder was super creepy.

I was shocked to find out that Glenna was paid around 3,500 k by the state to take care of her disabled spouse. Between his nominal disability income of 1,100 and her very generous caretaker pay, they were making over 50k per year without working. That’s pretty good for a small midwestern town. Maybe all the deer paraphernalia in the home, including the deer patterned couch made her snap. It was pretty godawful. 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Mu Shu

[Persnickety1]

On 8/13/2019 at 9:56 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

Leslie VanHouten is played by Victoria Pedretti in the movie Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. There is a resemblance.  Dakota Fanning plays Squeaky Frome! 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Van_Houten

Here's the official trailer.  I'm not sure what to make of it.  It seems to be A LOT about the Manson family.  Hmmm.....

I love Tarantino, I love DiCaprio, and it looks like I would love this movie but I'm kind of apprehensive about watching it.

Anybody see "Wolves at the Door"?  Small, not particularly good flick about the Tate murders.  I stumbled across it about a year ago and watched it.

I had a massive panic attack watching it.  I was a small child when the Tate murders happened, but I remember it being all over the news and Parents Persnickety watching the coverage.  I also read everything I could find on Manson and the family starting in my teenage years and even did one of my high school finals on Manson and his power over women.

Yet something about that movie "Wolves at the Door" really gave me a visceral reaction that I can't explain and have never had before or since.

I think I'll sit out OUATH until it comes to pay per view and can turn it off if I need to.  

Maybe I'm just getting weird(er) as I get old(er).  

[Mu Shu]

2 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

I love Tarantino, I love DiCaprio, and it looks like I would love this movie but I'm kind of apprehensive about watching it.

Anybody see "Wolves at the Door"?  Small, not particularly good flick about the Tate murders.  I stumbled across it about a year ago and watched it.

I had a massive panic attack watching it.  I was a small child when the Tate murders happened, but I remember it being all over the news and Parents Persnickety watching the coverage.  I also read everything I could find on Manson and the family starting in my teenage years and even did one of my high school finals on Manson and his power over women.

Yet something about that movie "Wolves at the Door" really gave me a visceral reaction that I can't explain and have never had before or since.

I think I'll sit out OUATH until it comes to pay per view and can turn it off if I need to.  

Maybe I'm just getting weird(er) as I get old(er).  

NO. See the movie, immediately. You must see it on the big screen. I think it’s his best film. 

[hoosiermom]

I have to laugh. My neighbor said she and her hubby just went to see it and said it was awful. They could barley stay awake. Both in their early 60’s.

[One Tough Cookie]

Pam Hupp gets life in prison.  Can't link it, but google is full of it.

[Mu Shu]

12 hours ago, hoosiermom said:

I have to laugh. My neighbor said she and her hubby just went to see it and said it was awful. They could barley stay awake. Both in their early 60’s.

Anyone who loves not just watching a movie, but pays attention to camera work, lighting,  musical score, subtle details and fantastic acting should not miss this.

Persnickity, I will not be able to sleep at night if you don’t see this film. It is amazing.  I assure you that you will thank me and then go for a second viewing. I’ll probably go a third time.  Fly to Florida and see it with me!

[hoosiermom]

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/pamela-hupp-to-serve-life-in-prison-for-murder-of/article_c74df094-8858-5ae3-aa58-66a3e819a728.html

[LuvMyShows]

Did anyone watch the new Oxygen show Killer Motive?  Seemed OK but nothing particularly memorable.

[SunnyBeBe]

This was a repeat, but, I watched most of it again. It was about the murder of attorney Melissa Lewis on ID special The Shadows of Death.  The man who murdered her was the husband of her best friend.  The best friend feels very guilty and blames herself for the murder.  I get why.  I can't help but wonder why she and the deceased didn't get how this woman's husband would not take kindly to Melissa being such a great friend to his wife, supporting her in her need, offering her assistance, being a confidant, etc.  The man had put a gun to his wife's head and told her she was not going to leave him......HELLO, what part of that doesn't spell he's very dangerous.  

https://tvcrimesky.com/2019/07/25/melissa-lewis-tony-villegas-watch-the-shadows-of-death-the-secret-florida-canal-murder-debra-coffey-friend/1705

It seems like I have seen stories about the Zimmerman murder, but, I can't recall details just now.  I just have little faith in eye witness testimony.  It's so unreliable.  

[funky-rat]

"How It Really Happened" is back on HLN (I have a series recording set up).  I skipped the 2-parter on Elizabeth Smart.  I've been over her story before, and I didn't really feel it needed 2 hours.

I did think Sunday's 2-parter on Susan Smith, however, was very well done.  I've seen shows about her before, but this one concentrated less on the more scandalous side of her story (her step-father, her many affairs, etc), and more on the parallel police investigation that they were secretly running while they were running their search efforts for the boys.  It was interesting to see how while the public saw one side of it, privately they were looking in the opposite direction.  That they knew from almost day 1 that she was full of crap, but they never let on, even dodging questions from reporters.  They had hoped that she was just doing this for attention, and the boys were "stashed away" somewhere, alive.

They spoke to an African American member of the community where this happened.  Amazingly, he didn't old any grudge against police.  He said they had to do what they had to do because of children being involved.  He didn't say much about holding a grudge against Smith.  I wouldn't blame him if he would.

They talked to some people in law enforcement who discussed how to look at her in interviews and know she was lying.  She would "scrunch" her face to make it look like she was crying, but not shed any tears (I can't recall the term they used) and how she'd give little smiles or smirks at times.  About how carjackers rarely take cars with kids, and when they discover they got a car with kids, they ditch it because car theft turns in to kidnapping.  About how the red light she was supposedly carjacked at never turns red unless there is another car at the intersection, but she swore there weren't any there.  I had heard before she put her wedding album in the car when she sent it in to the lake, but not that she put maternity clothes and similar items in there as well.  They barely touched on the man who told her that her kids were a deal breaker, but another thing I didn't know was that when the police first came to interview her, she said "I have a boyfriend.  This is his sweatshirt."  She was wearing an Auburn University sweatshirt he gave her.

My heart broke for her ex-husband.  He is still devastated.  I just can't imagaine.  Especially when he had to tell his kids from his 2nd marriage (he re-married after Susan went to jail - they had been separated - he is still married to his 2nd wife) about what happened, because it was such a notorious case that it would get back to them eventually, so he wanted them to know the truth ahead of time.  He wanted her to get the death penalty.  As it is, she's eligible for parole in a few years.  😡

I got married 11/5/94.  I had my hands full when they announced she had done it on 11/4/94 and missed the announcement.  When we arrived at the hotel for our honeymoon, the front desk clerk was talking about it.  😔

Edited August 27, 2019 by funky-rat

[KittyMom4]

2 hours ago, funky-rat said:

I got married 11/5/94.  I had my hands full when they announced she had done it on 11/4/94 and missed the announcement.  When we arrived at the hotel for our honeymoon, the front desk clerk was talking about it. 

I had a 4 year old daughter and was pregnant with my 2nd daughter, due 11/24/94, I wanted her to get the death penalty as well. To this day I can't watch anything about her without a fierce rage boiling up. Such a selfish, cold hearted bitch who could only think of her wants and needs, her and Christopher Watts can rot in hell together. 

Edited to add: ...and any other parent who feels the need to eliminate his or her wife/husband and children in order to be free to move on to the next "love of your life". Assholes. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by GoodieGirl
missing word

[funky-rat]

52 minutes ago, GoodieGirl said:

I had a 4 year old daughter was pregnant with my 2nd daughter, due 11/24/94, I wanted her to get the death penalty as well. To this day I can't watch anything about her without a fierce rage boiling up. Such a selfish, cold hearted bitch who could only think of her wants and needs, her and Christopher Watts can rot in hell together. 

I still wonder how she escaped the death penalty.  She's been in trouble for sleeping with prison guards.  EEEEEWWWW!!!!!

[Lisa418722]

I was working a 2nd shift job at the time and I could get audio only TV stations on the radio I had (yeah, I'm old).    I didn't have the image of her, but  I remember listening to her crying and thinking it just didn't sound right. Then when I heard she was arrested I thought my feeling was correct. Other people were shocked because they were sure she was telling the truth. My heart still breaks for David Smith. I'm glad he found love and had two more kids, but that doesn't take away what he went through.  

[Brattinella]

I saw Susan Smith's very first interview on TV, and it was plainly obvious that she was lying.  You couldn't miss it.  What a monster she is, and she REALLY should have gotten the DP.

[SunnyBeBe]

I suspect there are quite a few parents out there, who have murdered their kids, (they are missing), but, there will likely never be enough evidence to prove their guilt.  

[Minivanessa]

9 hours ago, Brattinella said:

I saw Susan Smith's very first interview on TV, and it was plainly obvious that she was lying.  You couldn't miss it.  What a monster she is, and she REALLY should have gotten the DP.

Thanks to @funky-rat, I watched the HLN two-parter On Demand last night. I had seen the "what really happened" shows on the onscreen guide but hadn't watched any of them.

I really don't remember much about the Susan Smith case from back in 1994 although I was aware of it. But watching last night, yeah, I thought she sounded phony from the get-go. I think that back in the day - before the truth came out - I thought she sounded strange.

Last night as I watched, I was trying to make allowances for her accent and speech patterns, which I found odd. But in those early interviews and press conferences? Her husband, who may have needed and never got remedial speech assistance as a kid, sounded sincere to me. Susan Smith didn't. She sounded wooden and phoney. I remind myself that It's hard to judge a stranger's speech in a short sound bite; she could be in shock, terrified, etc. But she sounded like someone trying - and falling - to act a part. Like she was awkwardly reading or reciting a script.

I heard the criminologist talk about the signs that Susan Smith was lying - and she actually said "scrunched up face" crying. With no tears.

And it was great to hear that law enforcement was quietly investigating Susan all along even as they publicly pursued all leads to the whereabouts of the children. On the one hand, Susan got a lot of sympathetic publicity at the start because, let's don't pull punches, she was a cute young white woman and there were tiny kids missing. OTOH she wasn't rich or high-class so that bias didn't arise, I assume. Because one only has to look at the Fustercluck of All Time that was the Jon Benet Ramsey investigation*, to know that class bias is alive and well everywhere, including in law enforcement.

I'm glad Susan's ex-husband has been able to remarry, have children, and move on with his life. But you don't "get over" a tragedy like that, and he hasn't. I'm just glad he seems to have some kind of nice life going on. A lot of people, after going through what he did, would have crawled into a bottle or found chemical solace to the point of addiction. Or just retreated into their house forever. I can't' imagine the horrors, so bless him that he's still standing (to quote Elton John; I've been listening to oldie playlists in the car). 

I couldn't watch more than a bit of the recreation the DA had done, of the car sinking in the lake. They found the same model car, put a camera inside it facing forward, and rolled it into the same lake at the same place. Even a second or two of that footage of the rising water in the car had me about to cry and I think any more of it would have been puke-inducing. It's still haunting me this morning. Those poor tiny little kids. How in HELL did that jury not impose the death penalty?

*The Ramsey case was mishandled literally from the first minute the Boulder Police Department responded to the "missing child" call. If that call had come from a double-wide in a trailer park? The house would have been cleared immediately and thoroughly searched by the cops. The parents would have been separated and aggressively interviewed. Instead the cops treated it like some kind of social call, people were wandering all over that big fancy rich family's house, the cops didn't clear the place of people, and eventually they left. Then, later that day a "family friend" discovered the child's body in the basement and handled it. So the crime scene was thoroughly tampered with. The truth will never be known. BTW, Lt. Joe Kenda of the Colorado Springs PD (and ID channel fame) was asked by the Boulder authorities to assist in the JBR murder investigation. He said he asked them, "Is what I've been reading in the newspapers true about how this case has been handled?" They said, yeah, that's about it. And he told them no way would he have anything to do with the case because it had already been so mishandled there was no way it could be saved/solved. Joe's right. It was. OTOH the Smith case was, it turned out, in good hands from the start.

[One Tough Cookie]

Susan had David first name? Parnham as her attorney and he specializes in making women, who have committed into,crimes into  victims who are on trial and getting them the lightest sentence.   He's a piece of dirt.  Susan could be declared fit tomorrow,walk out of the institution and have another kid next year.  She's not in jail she's in a mental facility.

[SunnyBeBe]

I recently saw a preview for a special on John Hinckley and what he's up to now. (Think it might have already aired.)  That might prove interesting. I haven't read much about him lately.  

Edited August 28, 2019 by SunnyBeBe

[Persnickety1]

On 8/26/2019 at 10:36 AM, Mu Shu said:

Anyone who loves not just watching a movie, but pays attention to camera work, lighting,  musical score, subtle details and fantastic acting should not miss this.

Persnickity, I will not be able to sleep at night if you don’t see this film. It is amazing.  I assure you that you will thank me and then go for a second viewing. I’ll probably go a third time.  Fly to Florida and see it with me!

It sounds as amazing as I found Pulp Fiction to be.  Just a cinematic treat all the way around.  I'm taking Mini Persnickety out for dinner and a movie for her birthday next weekend.  She wants to see IT 2, but I'm pretty sure she can be easily persuaded to go see this flick as well, since she's almost as big of a Tarantino fan as I am.  😄  

Did anyone catch Evil Lives Here last night?  Good gawd almighty, I had somehow forgotten all about these murders until midway through the episode.  I remember when the murders happened and Kreiger was ultimately arrested, but I didn't know Kreider's ultimate fate.  Truly a chilling episode.  

Til Death Do Us Part was also a very interesting episode, very Clara Harris scenario and also occurred in Texas.  

[Vivigirl10]

I too thought the Susan Smith "How It Really Happened" was extremely well done.  Of course, I'd known the story, but had never watched anything really in depth on it.  The husband (can't remember his name) seemed like such a wonderful father.  I think it truly shows the depths of her evil that she didn't just hand the kids over to him and leave.  

I'd like to know more about the truth of the relationship she had with the man who said he couldn't be with her because of the kids.  Was it really that serious, or was it mostly in her head?  He was the wealthy owner of a company (or son of) and he zeroed in on her as a love interest?  This isn't Dynasty, with Blake pulling Krystle from the secretarial pool.  Maybe they fooled around a bit or went out a time or two, but was she really thinking he was going to marry her?  I could see this nut case making it out to be something in her head that it wasn't.  

[funky-rat]

5 minutes ago, Kiki620 said:

I too thought the Susan Smith "How It Really Happened" was extremely well done.  Of course, I'd known the story, but had never watched anything really in depth on it.  The husband (can't remember his name) seemed like such a wonderful father.  I think it truly shows the depths of her evil that she didn't just hand the kids over to him and leave.  

I'd like to know more about the truth of the relationship she had with the man who said he couldn't be with her because of the kids.  Was it really that serious, or was it mostly in her head?  He was the wealthy owner of a company (or son of) and he zeroed in on her as a love interest?  This isn't Dynasty, with Blake pulling Krystle from the secretarial pool.  Maybe they fooled around a bit or went out a time or two, but was she really thinking he was going to marry her?  I could see this nut case making it out to be something in her head that it wasn't.  

I've seen a few shows over the years that look more at the salacious side of this story (her Stepfather being a regular partner from the time her mom married him until just a few months before the incident being one of them) and it's always kind-of debateable as to the strength of the relationship with the owner of the company's son.

What she did makes me absolutely sick, but I'm oddly interested in purely her state of mind - what would take someone who was by all accounts a doting mother, and make them do this.  Whenever I see the reinactment, I close my eyes and turn my head.  I can't take it.  Anything like this upsets me.  We were never able to have children, or do public adoption (the outdated regulations argument for another day), and rather than kill your kids, give them to someone else (and the laws on abandonment also need to be updated - it might save more lives if there were a better way).  The policework end of this was also very interesting, and satisfying to see a good investigation that was well run, well handled, and successful (despite the frustrating outcome with no death penalty).

The interviews with Polly Klaas' father were also fascinating.  He had her pegged dead to rights from pretty much moment one.

Found this - it gives a little more insight in to it, but fair warning, it goes in to some of the details between her and her step-father, and conjures up images of the boys in the car.  To me, it doesn't sound like he was ever really serious about her, and this was a good out for him (JMO):

https://www.newsweek.com/condemned-life-182468

[Minivanessa]

5 hours ago, One Tough Cookie said:

Susan had David first name? Parnham as her attorney and he specializes in making women, who have committed into,crimes into  victims who are on trial and getting them the lightest sentence.   He's a piece of dirt.  Susan could be declared fit tomorrow,walk out of the institution and have another kid next year.  She's not in jail she's in a mental facility.

I thought her lawyer's name was David Bruck. According to Wikipedia she is incarcerated at  a women's prison. Not a mental hospital. She also has a parole eligibility date some years away. Everything I read said she was sentenced to life and nothing about being placed in a mental facility.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Jeeves

[funky-rat]

2 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I thought her lawyer's name was David Bruck. According to Wikipedia she is incarcerated at  a women's prison. Not a mental hospital. She also has a parole eligibility date some years away. Everything I read said she was sentenced to life and nothing about being placed in a mental facility.

I think they said 2024 is her first eligible parole date.  Not too far away, but not next year either.

Edited August 28, 2019 by funky-rat
Details....

[LGraves65]

4 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

Did anyone catch Evil Lives Here last night?  Good gawd almighty, I had somehow forgotten all about these murders until midway through the episode.  I remember when the murders happened and Kreiger was ultimately arrested, but I didn't know Kreider's ultimate fate.  Truly a chilling episode.  

I watched it. 

When the dad was talking about Alec's inability to be around his family when they ate? That's called misophonia. I have it, and it's hell. I realize Alec had other, deeper problems, but misophonia is a sign that the brain isn't processing sounds and emotions in a normal way. I wish his parents had gotten him more help.

[Annber03]

4 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

Did anyone catch Evil Lives Here last night?  Good gawd almighty, I had somehow forgotten all about these murders until midway through the episode.  I remember when the murders happened and Kreiger was ultimately arrested, but I didn't know Kreider's ultimate fate.  Truly a chilling episode.  

I think I'd heard about that case on an episode of that "Killer Kids" show once. Very eerie case indeed. The dad's reflection on his son's life and his crimes at the end was very sobering and heartbreaking. 

Quote

Til Death Do Us Part was also a very interesting episode, very Clara Harris scenario and also occurred in Texas.  

Another one that I recall hearing on another show once as well (I want to say "48 Hours"?). I agree that I don't think Frances intentionally set out to kill her husband, but the thing that bothered me the most was that, aside from putting her husband's life and that of Bonnie's in danger, she also put other drivers on the road in danger as well. They had the caller who dialed 911 specifically mentioning her going the wrong way down the road and all that, and it had me wondering what her sentence would've been had she wound up killing some random driver. I get the argument that she may have snapped, as it were, and in some ways I can see that. But c'mon, you know full well the dangers of driving at a high rate of speed. It's hard for me to find much sympathy for somebody who puts innocent people's lives at risk like that and risks letting them become a casualty of a personal drama they have no connection to. I feel like that should've been taken into account during her trial as well. At least she acknowledged what she did was stupid, though. And having to live with the knowledge that your actions led to your husband's death is a pretty tough punishment all its own, so...

Mind, that Bonnie was no innocent, either, with her harassing the guy she was having the affair with and taunting his wife and all that. We really need to do more to teach women that if they both find themselves involved with a guy, and he's being all wishy-washy about who he wants to be with and whatnot, don't start turning on each other and trying to fight over the jerk. Just dump him and never look back, and move on with your own lives. I get where it was hard for France to just want to break free from a 30 year marriage, but I dunno, with all the particular drama happening here, if I were her, I just wouldn't have felt it worth the fight after a while. 

[One Tough Cookie]

OOPPPSSS my goof  It was Andrea Yates who is a "guest of the state.