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One of my pet peeves with true crime shows is when the friend, family member of officer says, "They didn't deserve this."  As if someone does deserve to be raped, tortured and stabbed to death?  lol  I mean, I guess you could argue that a child abuser or serial killer may deserve a lot, but, to me, they throw that term around way too much.  It's sort of like how the deceased victim would light up the room and loved life more than anyone else.  And, also when describing what happened, they are most focused on how the body was treated after death, than during the murder.  Why would you expect a cold hearted killer to show respect to the body? They are outraged that the body was thrown into a field or dumpster.   It makes me wonder why they say that so much. 

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On 10/8/2019 at 4:31 PM, smittykins said:

It still boggles my mind that when someone hires a “hitman,” It never occurs to them that “hmmm, on TV, it turns out to be an undercover cop about 99.99999999% of the time.”

Yes, that is always my response. It's a cop, it's almost always a cop, people. This is not hard to figure out!

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There was a lady on ID show the other day, I think it was American Monster or something like that where the mother/wife of serial killer kept saying that she was SHOCKED that her husband murdered someone....and that she could NOT believe it.  Really?  This violent man who physically abused her and the children for many years, scared them all......she was shocked that he finally had killed.......EVEN after his arrest, she believed he was innocent!  I don't normally do this, but, I was yelling some pretty bad insults at her during this show.  I mean really.......she put those kids through hell by staying in the house with this man.  Oh, yeah she got a restraining order and went into hiding the day he was arrested for raping and murdering a 14 year old girl!  He had stolen the girls tape recorder and given it to his teen daughter, along with a tape in it with the teen talking!  And, mom never mentioned that to police before the trial.  She never thought much of it when DH showed up with gifts and no box, bag or tags.  

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4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 It's sort of like how the deceased victim would light up the room and loved life more than anyone else.  

I saw a post from somebody on another site a while back that said something like, "I'm glad I don't light up a room. Those people always seem to wind up murdered." :p. 

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And, also when describing what happened, they are most focused on how the body was treated after death, than during the murder.  Why would you expect a cold hearted killer to show respect to the body? They are outraged that the body was thrown into a field or dumpster.   It makes me wonder why they say that so much. 

I don't think it's so much that they're surprised a killer doesn't treat the body well in and of itself, it's more just seeing the specifics of what they did that's so disturbing. It's bad enough to murder somebody, but then when they start chopping up the body, or do something sexual with the corpse, or shove the body into some container or garbage bin, or things of that sort...it's really unsettling to see the depths of how extreme and violent some people are. 

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Yeah, I guess.  I just am way more concerned about the torture/treatment before the death.  Once dead, the victim is no longer suffering.  Maybe, I'm just weird. lol 

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4 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, I guess.  I just am way more concerned about the torture/treatment before the death.  Once dead, the victim is no longer suffering.  Maybe, I'm just weird. lol 

This is true, and I totally understand that mindset, too. I think that adds another angle to the reactions for some, though-the victim isn't suffering anymore, no, but the family will be. There's been plenty of officers talking about how tough it is to explain to them why they can't see their loved one's body and all that, and the fact that some families can't properly bury their loved one because of what some sicko did to the body...that's just another layer of pain and cruelty the killer's inflicted. 

Plus, I think some of that attitude is just the whole "respect for the dead" thing that's ingrained in so many people. 

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2 hours ago, geekgirl921 said:

Yes, that is always my response. It's a cop, it's almost always a cop, people. This is not hard to figure out!

And if it's not  a cop, that person will call the cops, or better yet take the $ and never do the job.

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21 hours ago, BigBlueMastiff said:

And if it's not  a cop, that person will call the cops, or better yet take the $ and never do the job.

There was a show recently but I can't remember which one where the man hired a hitman to kill his wife and the hitmen kept scamming him out of more and more money. It was amazing how long they were able to string him along.

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2 minutes ago, geekgirl921 said:

There was a show recently but I can't remember which one where the man hired a hitman to kill his wife and the hitmen kept scamming him out of more and more money. It was amazing how long they were able to string him along.

There was one too where a woman gave the guy money to kill her husband or ex husband (can't remember which) and the guy took the money, and ran off to another state.  Ultimately, he ratted her out.  I laughed my butt off.  What was she going to do?  Go to the cops and complain the guy took her money but didn't kill the man?

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On 10/23/2019 at 9:35 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

One of my pet peeves with true crime shows is when the friend, family member of officer  And, also when describing what happened, they are most focused on how the body was treated after death, than during the murder.  Why would you expect a cold hearted killer to show respect to the body? They are outraged that the body was thrown into a field or dumpster.   It makes me wonder why they say that so much. 

On 10/23/2019 at 2:20 PM, Annber03 said:

I don't think it's so much that they're surprised a killer doesn't treat the body well in and of itself, it's more just seeing the specifics of what they did that's so disturbing. It's bad enough to murder somebody, but then when they start chopping up the body, or do something sexual with the corpse, or shove the body into some container or garbage bin, or things of that sort...it's really unsettling to see the depths of how extreme and violent some people are. 

In most cases the investigating officers actually saw the body as and where it was discovered. Probably those scenes are burned into their memories, and if the corpse was abused it's just all that much worse. I don't think that an officer who mentions the way the corpse was treated or disposed of, is necessarily indifferent to the suffering of the victim before death. They may unconsciously be reacting to their memory of seeing the corpse, so they mention that. And then the show producers go for the best sound bites . . . 

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On 10/20/2019 at 1:23 PM, Persnickety1 said:

I'm thinking maybe the premiere date was wrong.  I did a search and found a regular Discovery Channel program called "Highway Thru Hell" that was supposed to premiere October 7th, but nothing for "Highway To Hell" on ID Discovery.

I heard the promo too.
I watch Highway Thru Hell occasionally.  It's about these tow truck drivers in BC and/or Alberta, who keep the main road open in really bad weather.

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2 hours ago, Jeeves said:

In most cases the investigating officers actually saw the body as and where it was discovered. Probably those scenes are burned into their memories, and if the corpse was abused it's just all that much worse. I don't think that an officer who mentions the way the corpse was treated or disposed of, is necessarily indifferent to the suffering of the victim before death. They may unconsciously be reacting to their memory of seeing the corpse, so they mention that. And then the show producers go for the best sound bites . . . 

Yep. I think this is spot on. Some of the grotesque stuff they've seen...I can't even begin, nor do I want, to imagine. 

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It does annoy me when relatives on "Evil Lives Here" keep saying how "shocked" they were, after years of sketchy behavior.  One guy's brother tried to strangle a 9 year old girl in the building's elevator and they had to move.  Nothing should've shocked him after that,  even the show says "There were signs...".

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On "Shattered - No Way Out" I can't help but being irritated by Uncle George's niece. We're supposed to feel he's an innocent victim of Ms. Lyon who "brainwashed" him. He was so scared and bleeding. Blah, blah. He fired the first shot on a police officer who merely asked him for license and registration. But George didn't believe in law and order or authority, so he shot the guy. Linda's shot apparently killed him, but George shot first.

What they never explained was who the child was that they had in the car, who asked for help from a passerby. Or why they had him. They weren't charged with kidnapping, so maybe it was one of Linda's children. Anyone know?

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I was only half paying attention, but think the boy was Linda's.  They were on the run because she stabbed the ex-husband and took the kid. 

Agree that George was no innocent victim.  He and Linda were both violent nut jobs.

The wife of the cop who was killed just broke my heart.  I loved her reconnecting with her husband's partner.  Both of their remembrances were very touching.

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Some interesting background on Lynda that wasn't mentioned in the episode:

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Her second husband, George Sibley (September 8, 1942 - August 4, 2005), claimed that a constant trait of Block was charity. While living in Key West she served as Secretary of the Humane Society, and also as animal abuse investigator. She was also active in civic work besides her service to the Humane Society: for two years she served as president of the Friends of the Library in Key West and served as publicity director for a mayoral candidate.

Before the crime that led to her conviction and transfer to Alabama's death row, Block published Liberatis, a political magazine. She came from such a high social standing that many were shocked to learn of her crime.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynda_Lyon_Block#cite_note-shah-4

Amazing the different sides one person can show to the world.

I agree with you guys about George. If she did have any sort of power over him, my guess is she simply encouraged a part of him that was already lurking within. 

Thank goodness that child was able to escape. I can only begin to imagine how tense that standoff would've been. I love that one friend calling Juanita and telling her not to turn on the TV. I get that she wanted to protect her on what was already a very horrible day for her, but the very moment you tell somebody, "Hey, don't do this!" that's only going to make them more curious to do it. 

15 minutes ago, Kitty Redstone said:

The wife of the cop who was killed just broke my heart.  I loved her reconnecting with her husband's partner.  Both of their remembrances were very touching.

Same. The pain was still so raw for poor Juanita all these years later, understandably. I was moved by her comment about how if her husband had to choose a way to die, he would want to go out doing the very thing he did that day. 

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I don't know why but I always prefer to record the entire season of a show before I watch the episodes. Was this week's episode, the tenth one, the last of Deadly Women for the season? New ones no longer appear on the guide.

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Man, I saw this odd story on Women in Prison today.  I didn't see a thread on the show around here.  This woman, who was employed as a security guard, was sentenced to 30 years for voluntary manslaughter due to stabbing her estranged boyfriend, who had broken into her house while she was gone.  It sounded like it was self defense as he came after her with a knife, so she stabbed him first, so, I'm not sure why she didn't have defense of self defense.  Anyone know?  I wonder if her story was true or not. Her prison caseworker said that she had a bad anger problem.  I'd be angry too if I get as much time as a cold blooded serial killer and I was just defending myself.  

The other woman featured got 25 years for 4 armed robberies committed within 8 days.  She refused to rat on her boyfriend, who was the real one behind it.  She was like his puppet.  Anyway, they were both doing heroin.  She just walked into the stores with a gun and demanded the money.  Her face was all over the camera. No attempt to disguise herself at all.  I just don't get it. 

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I've noticed that women tend to get harsher sentences than men. One show I watched, the woman who helped hide a body got more time than the actual murderer. It's almost like "how dare a woman kill a man." Meanwhile, men are killing their girlfriends, wives, children, and get less time.

The case that offended me the most was a man who raped and murdered a child spent two years in jail.

Edited by nokat
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8 hours ago, nokat said:

I've noticed that women tend to get harsher sentences than men. One show I watched, the woman who helped hide a body got more time than the actual murderer. It's almost like "how dare a woman kill a man." Meanwhile, men are killing their girlfriends, wives, children, and get less time.

The case that offended me the most was a man who raped and murdered a child spent two years in jail.

I noticed that too. Especially in cases of rape and/or murder of children. There was a Forensic Files a man raped a fourteen year old girl got a couple years, he got out and raped a child. Again just a couple years. He got out raped a nine year old and this time killed her. But only then did he get the death penalty. What only after the third kid who he murdered he finally got a sentence he deserved? Why only a couple years for the first rape? Or second? At that point it was completely clear he wasn't going to stop. It is absolutely ridiculous. The really scary thing is that really hasn't changed. College frat boy raped a classmate well he got a tiny fine and a couple months in jail by a judge. Another stupid judge who thought another rapist suffered enough, and another who decided teenage rapist deserved leniency because he came from a 'good family'. Its infuriating

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I often turn on Forensic Files at night when I'm trying to fall asleep because I'm increasingly not happy with ID Channel programming, and I've seen pretty much all of the FF eps over the years, and don't really need to pay attention to them.

Last night was one I've seen a bunch of times about Leisha Hamilton, who killed Scott Dunn, and recruited a neighbor to help dispose of him and clean up the mess.  As an aside, she seemed to have a lot of men under her spell, but I found nothing attractive about her at all.

I had forgotton how Scott's father enlisted the help of The Vidoq Society to try to get Leisha, because Texas (where Scott lived) wouldn't go to trial without a body (his dad lived in PA, and we will go to trial without bodies here if the case is strong).  I LOVED the guy from Vidoq who was helping him.  He's the stereotypical geeky dude with horn rimmed glasses and a suit and tie, and with a mostly flat voice, says the following:

"Mr. Dunn, aren't you tired of being the grieving father?  He said 'Isn't that what I'm supposed to be?'  And I said no, you should be damn mad.  Now let's go get that bitch."

The dude had hardly any inflection, and he said it as matter-of-factly as if he were reading his weekly shopping list, and it was just absolutely hilarious.  That's one case where I was glad the accomplice got probation only, because it came out the neighbor had a very sheltered and religious upbringing, and Leisha used her "worldly woman" (as the one cop put it) ways to get him to do whatever she wanted.  They believed all he did was help her clean up the mess and possibly dispose of the body after the fact.

Once Vidoq was able to prove that Scott lost so much blood that he would not have been able to survive (with the help of Scotland Yard), they convinced Texas to proceed, and the geeky guy was tickled pink.  I can't recall what he said excatly, but in the same monotone delivery it was essentially "Go get her".  She didn't get a ton of jail time (I think 20 years) but it's better than nothing, and it took her out of circulation, because she had a long history of scamming men, and arrests for various stuff.  She's out now (sadly).   Vidoq guy was also talking about Leisha later in the episode and said "You don't dismiss her.  She dismisses you.", as if he were talking about Roach Motels or something.  That dude should have his own show - I would watch the heck out of it.

I always felt badly that the father had bought a headstone, in the hopes that Scott would eventually turn up, and he could bury him.  The BSOJ at the end of the episode said in 2012, Scott's remains were found in a sewer line that was part of the apartment complex he lived in.  I hope his dad is still alive and was able to bury him.

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5 hours ago, funky-rat said:

I always felt badly that the father had bought a headstone, in the hopes that Scott would eventually turn up, and he could bury him.  The BSOJ at the end of the episode said in 2012, Scott's remains were found in a sewer line that was part of the apartment complex he lived in.  I hope his dad is still alive and was able to bury him.

He was able to....

https://www.nj.com/mercer/2012/10/former_yardley_pa_man_is_final.html

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On 10/8/2019 at 7:31 PM, smittykins said:

It still boggles my mind that when someone hires a “hitman,” It never occurs to them that “hmmm, on TV, it turns out to be an undercover cop about 99.99999999% of the time.”

On 10/23/2019 at 2:23 PM, geekgirl921 said:

Yes, that is always my response. It's a cop, it's almost always a cop, people. This is not hard to figure out!

Ok, but I saw this article the other day, and I was like "they hired a chain of FIVE hitmen and NONE of them turned out to be undercover cops?! WHAT?!"

https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/23/hitman-hires-hitman-hires-hitman-hires-hitman-hires-hitman-tells-police-10971438/

On 10/23/2019 at 4:20 PM, Annber03 said:

I saw a post from somebody on another site a while back that said something like, "I'm glad I don't light up a room. Those people always seem to wind up murdered." :p. 

The ones who don't "light up a room" don't get TV episodes made about them...instead they just become a "few details are available" case on Charley Project....

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Buymore: You are so right, if you light up a room, never met a stranger, give anyone the shirt of your back, YOU ARE DEAD MEAT. No red flags here, by the bye, what in the hell does a red flag mean anyway?

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I haven't been able to finish a "Fear Thy Neighbor" for weeks. I'm going to be moving soon, and the thought of having a neighbor like on the show scares me. I've been spoiled with a quiet neighborhood, even though it's the usual California five inches away from your neighbor. We also have an HOA, which some people hate, but it can help.
 

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7 hours ago, nokat said:

I haven't been able to finish a "Fear Thy Neighbor" for weeks. I'm going to be moving soon, and the thought of having a neighbor like on the show scares me. I've been spoiled with a quiet neighborhood, even though it's the usual California five inches away from your neighbor. We also have an HOA, which some people hate, but it can help.

Seriously, I swear, these stories get crazier and crazier with each new episode. Last night's was basically two stupid guys engaging in a "Whose is bigger?" battle. I wanted to slap them both upside the head a few dozen times.

And of course, children had to be witness to it all. Again. Little tip for these morons on these shows: when your own family is telling you to chill the fuck out, that should tell you something. 

I hope your move goes well, and I hope any neighbors you have are as nice as the ones you've got now :). 

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4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

when your own family is telling you to chill the fuck out, that should tell you something.

I actually watched the entire thing this time. Yes, when family is telling you to chill out, you need to back away from the idiocy of dick waving.

I'm not usually the one to yell "think of the children" but really, you are behaving like this in front of your children.

 

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8 minutes ago, nokat said:

I'm not usually the one to yell "think of the children" but really, you are behaving like this in front of your children.

And some of the kids at this house weren't even theirs to boot! They're putting other people's children, alongside their own, in potential danger because they want to act like stupid macho idiots. I don't blame any of those kids' parents for pulling them out and not letting them come over anymore. 

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There has to be a level of trust when kids are at another house. After watching too much ID, I'd probably search the house for weapons and drugs.
 

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I did find the reenactment fights amusing, though, especially when they kept playing this exchange:

"Go screw your dog!"

"Go screw yourself!"

I just kept thinking, "...wow, good comeback..." 

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1 minute ago, Annber03 said:

I just kept thinking, "...wow, good comeback..."

Laughing, it was pretty lame. May your mosquitoes poke your veins.  Take that!
 

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So last night I saw a repeat of what I think was the first episode of "Murder for Hire" on Oxygen. The  Wyoming therapist, who had court-ordered clients who had to complete her therapy to stay out of prison. She told one of her court-ordered clients, a young woman, to find a hit man to kill her (the therapist's) ex husband, and said she'd send the young woman to prison if she didn't do it. 

I hope there is a special hell for someone who abuses power like that. I was happy to see that the cops listened to the terrified young woman when she came to them instead of just following her "therapist's" orders, and they put together a multi-agency group to catch the wanna-be mastermind. There were several photos shown of the therapist - she had crazy eyes. It was fun to see her get played by the young undercover cop who was supposed to be some kind of gang banger "cousin" of her client. That woman was well and truly obsessed with hatred and greed, and one scary scary evil human unit. **Shudder**

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40 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I hope there is a special hell for someone who abuses power like that.

Any time I see a woman lie about her husband being an abuser, I think that. There are many women who are abused, and then you lie about it to excuse your murdering your husband.

I also watch that Deadly Women show. I know, it's cheesy. The number of women who convince some sap to kill for them is surprising.


 

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11 hours ago, Jordan61 said:

What the heck is this "The Murder Shed" and is that Michael Ironside??

I watched it last night. I thought it was pretty good.  I couldn't find an IMDB listing for it, so I'm not sure if that was Michael Ironside.  I did see Lochlyn Monroe, who has been in a ton of stuff over the years.

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On 10/27/2019 at 8:31 AM, nokat said:

I haven't been able to finish a "Fear Thy Neighbor" for weeks. I'm going to be moving soon, and the thought of having a neighbor like on the show scares me. I've been spoiled with a quiet neighborhood, even though it's the usual California five inches away from your neighbor. We also have an HOA, which some people hate, but it can help.
 

I know what you mean.  I'm renovating my house and may be moving there soon.  I am aware of potential neighbor issues.  A few have come over to chat and I'm not sure what to make of them.  A few of them I knew from years ago, but, some are new. I'd just as soon live peacefully, without much contact.  lol There are odd people everywhere. 

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2 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I know what you mean.  I'm renovating my house and may be moving there soon.  I am aware of potential neighbor issues.  A few have come over to chat and I'm not sure what to make of them.  A few of them I knew from years ago, but, some are new. I'd just as soon live peacefully, without much contact.  lol There are odd people everywhere. 

One reason we love where we are now is that we get little more than a wave and "hello" from people.  Everyone is friendly, but essentially keeps to themselves (no block parties, no group BBQ's, etc).  Fine by me.  I've lived near a few whack-a-doodles, and it's exhausting.

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24 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

One reason we love where we are now is that we get little more than a wave and "hello" from people.  Everyone is friendly, but essentially keeps to themselves (no block parties, no group BBQ's, etc).  Fine by me.  I've lived near a few whack-a-doodles, and it's exhausting.

Yeah.  I'd hate to have to put up a big fence and get a large dog.  lol  Do you think they would stay away if I told them that I was taking donations to defray the costs of the renovations and that I take checks or cash? lol 

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1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah.  I'd hate to have to put up a big fence and get a large dog.  lol  Do you think they would stay away if I told them that I was taking donations to defray the costs of the renovations and that I take checks or cash? lol 

The worst was when we lived in an apartment.  Five units in the bulding, 4 were occupied by nuts - just varying form of nuttiness.  Landlord was nuts too.  Was glad to be out of there.

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7 hours ago, funky-rat said:

I watched it last night. I thought it was pretty good.  I couldn't find an IMDB listing for it, so I'm not sure if that was Michael Ironside.  I did see Lochlyn Monroe, who has been in a ton of stuff over the years.

It's weird to see name (?) actors on ID. I found this on IMDB. It's got a different name but lists both Michael Ironside and Lochlyn Monroe:

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt7921292/?ref_=m_ttpl

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On 10/17/2019 at 5:08 AM, Annber03 said:

-Coe's friend. I can sympathize with his struggle to reconcile the fact that this guy he's known since childhood turned out to be such an awful creep. That would be a very tough thing to wrestle with, for sure. And given his faith, I can only imagine how much that weighed on him on that level, too. 

But it kind of bothered me that he seemed to focus more on that than what the women went through. And then his actions when he went to his friend's house.

Maybe someone already covered this but........Jay Williams (the friend) is a world class creep hiding behind his religion.      What he did was wrong, period.

I have read the book "Son" about Coe so I can tell you that Williams did NOT go to retrieve the items at Coe's house, they were at a home for sale. Both Coe and Williams were realtors. So Williams used the lock box key illegally to cover up for Coe.  He knew for years that both Coe and his mother were both very troubled.

After the conviction, Coe's mother hired a hitman (undercover cop) to kill iirc the prosecutor. Actually her wish was he become a cripple and have to wear diapers. She also went to jail, although it was a short stay and she was coddled.    

Thankfully he will never get out of McNeil Island.  He served his entire prison sentence but he never spent one day of freedom and they civilly committed him.

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9 minutes ago, Cherrio said:

Maybe someone already covered this but........Jay Williams (the friend) is a world class creep hiding behind his religion.      What he did was wrong, period.

I have read the book "Son" about Coe so I can tell you that Williams did NOT go to retrieve the items at Coe's house, they were at a home for sale. Both Coe and Williams were realtors. So Williams used the lock box key illegally to cover up for Coe.  He knew for years that both Coe and his mother were both very troubled.

After the conviction, Coe's mother hired a hitman (undercover cop) to kill iirc the prosecutor. Actually her wish was he become a cripple and have to wear diapers. She also went to jail, although it was a short stay and she was coddled.    

Thankfully he will never get out of McNeil Island.  He served his entire prison sentence but he never spent one day of freedom and they civilly committed him.

Oh, wow. Thanks for the extra details on that case. That is crazy regarding the mom-ye gods. 

But yeah, that backstory about the friend certainly explains a lot better why his reaction to all of this bugged me. That's pretty shitty. 

I may have to see if I can find that book you mention. 

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38 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I may have to see if I can find that book you mention. 

Its "Son" by Jack Olsen.  Very detailed and great writer.

There is also a Lifetime type of movie that was actually very good with Elizabeth Montgomery called "Sins of the Mother".

There is also iirc a Dateline with Coe being interviewed about his release.  The one thing that stayed with me all these years was his complaining about if he got out of prison he "had no wardrobe"!     He was always preoccupied with his looks and clothes and his voice.

He also has a lot of the characteristics that Ted Bundy had. 

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32 minutes ago, Cherrio said:

There is also iirc a Dateline with Coe being interviewed about his release.  The one thing that stayed with me all these years was his complaining about if he got out of prison he "had no wardrobe"!     He was always preoccupied with his looks and clothes and his voice.

He also has a lot of the characteristics that Ted Bundy had. 

That does not surprise me. Had he not been caught, I shudder to think of how his crimes would've evolved. 

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23 hours ago, funky-rat said:

The worst was when we lived in an apartment.

Has done the apartment living. The worst was parties all night and vomit at the doorstep.

Good neighbors are the ones who wave, will call the police or file department if they see something, but just a wave. Or that polite thing when you're both checking the mailbox. A how are you, and you both expect a "doing good, how are you?"
 

Just now, nokat said:

Has done the apartment living. The worst was parties all night and vomit at the doorstep.

Good neighbors are the ones who wave, will call the police or fire department if they see something, but just a wave. Or that polite thing when you're both checking the mailbox. A how are you, and you both expect a "doing good, how are you?"

 


 

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1 minute ago, nokat said:

Has done the apartment living. The worst was parties all night and vomit at the doorstep.

Good neighbors are the ones who wave, will call the police or file department if they see something, but just a wave. Or that polite thing when you're both checking the mailbox. A how are you, and you both expect a "doing good, how are you?"

I absolutely know and trust that people in our neighborhood know who does and doesn't belong there (many have lived there for eons) and would absolutely let the cops or management know something is up.  I saw someone roaming around who I didn't recognize and alerted management when I saw her standing in people's driveways, staring at their houses.  Our streets are private, marked as scuh, and aren't on a main thoroughfare, so if you're in our developement, you came in purposely, not accidentally.  Turns out she was the granddaughter of someone who lives down the street from me, but there had been a rash of daytime break-ins in the town right next to ours.  But again, management knew who she was, and that she belonged there.  That's why I love our neighborhood.  My neighbor on one side was a little concerned when someone strange pulled up to our house last winter.  Then they saw him get out a shovel and start my driveway, and said they relaxed, but still kept an eye out.  And I would do the same for them.  But we have the kind of relationship like you mention - we wave, have brief chit-chat when coming and going, and I pet their dogs when they're outside.  And that's how I like it.  There were scammers claiming to be the power company going door to door.  I called management immediately.  Not only are they violating the "NO SOLICITING" signs that are posted at the driveway, but we have a lot of elderly in our neighborhood and I am pretty sure that's why they were there.  It was taken care of quickly.

When we lived in our apartment, the peope below us were disgusting slobs.  We had a roach infestation because of them.  The exterminator found the next in their apartment.  I'm 99.9% sure they stole catalogs from my mailbox and ordered stuff in my name, took the boxes (neither worked), and then left me to deal with the bills (it was a Fingerhut type thing, in the days when you either mailed the order in or ordered over the phone -  I had to file police reports).  They also fought constantly in their bedroom, which was below our living room.  They'd threaten to kill each other, etc.  The woman across from them would take a hot bath every  night, and then draw one for her daughter.  As such, we never had enough hot water.  The old woman across from us was the worst one.  She'd take packages that delivery companies would leave in the space between her door and mine.  Even though they were addressed to me or my husband.  She'd claim we would have the bills sent to her (kind-of hard when I pre-paid for these things with my credit card).  The guy who lived upstairs was a nurse, worked odd hours, got showered down by the cologne tanker truck every day, and would have parties where he blared Judy Garland music at 3am on weeknights.  We called the cops once when we just couldn't take it anymore - the landlord refused to do anything about it.  We couldn't figure out why our light bills were so high (it was our first place and I thought it was normal until I asked other people).  Turned out we paid for all of the common area lights, the basement (where the lady who ran baths also used a washer and dryer she wasn't supposed to have), the exterior lights, and the garage.  Landlord acknowledged it after we the electric company came in to do a power audit, but never offered any type of consession.  Never so glad to be out of there.

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