General True Crime Shows

[Brattinella]

I'm just pissed off that she got less time in the penitentiary. 

[geekgirl921]

45 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

YES. Oh, my god, that woman. "He was trying to destroy my relationship with my children!" No, that was you, lady. You're the one who saw nothing wrong with letting a guy who had a criminal record for abusing an underage child be around your children. Any parent in their right mind would react the way her ex-husband did after finding out something like that. 

(To say nothing of the fact that he openly gave her an opportunity to break things off with these guys before immediately rescinding visitation rights. Some parents wouldn't even be that generous.)

Yes, I really liked the post notes about how she would be a better mother and christian if he was dead. Um, lady, I think there is something in Christianity about not killing people and it's generally not considered good parenting when you murder your children's dad!

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, geekgirl921 said:

Yes, I really liked the post notes about how she would be a better mother and christian if he was dead. Um, lady, I think there is something in Christianity about not killing people and it's generally not considered good parenting when you murder your children's dad!

Reminds me of the people who are like, "I can't divorce my spouse, it's against our religion!" Yet murdering them is apparently totally fine, however. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Blood Runs Cold on ID.....OMG....last night's episode, Bonded By Grief, was so horrific.  This killer, who they finally caught by DNA, was a twisted piece of garbage.  Thank goodness, he's on death row. I thought this show was well done.  Apparently, they are really covering some horrible cases, though, the show did't show all the details about the young boys' torture. (I looked up more info online.)  It boggles the mind.

https://www.investigationdiscovery.com/tv-shows/blood-runs-cold/full-episodes/bonded-by-grief

Edited November 5, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[walnutqueen]

19 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Reminds me of the people who are like, "I can't divorce my spouse, it's against our religion!" Yet murdering them is apparently totally fine, however. 

And they are inevitably super religious!!!  The moment there's a preacher or a Morman, I know who did it.  (sorry, Mormans - I know you are mostly good people, and I do not mean to single you out.  Catholic priests are still at the top of my shitlist, as are Scientologists and all Fanatical Believers).

[andromeda331]

On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 1:17 PM, geekgirl921 said:

Yes, I really liked the post notes about how she would be a better mother and christian if he was dead. Um, lady, I think there is something in Christianity about not killing people and it's generally not considered good parenting when you murder your children's dad!

 

On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 1:19 PM, Annber03 said:

Reminds me of the people who are like, "I can't divorce my spouse, it's against our religion!" Yet murdering them is apparently totally fine, however. 

 

7 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

And they are inevitably super religious!!!  The moment there's a preacher or a Morman, I know who did it.  (sorry, Mormans - I know you are mostly good people, and I do not mean to single you out.  Catholic priests are still at the top of my shitlist, as are Scientologists and all Fanatical Believers).

I'm a Christian and I hate those people. Them and Catholic priests are at the top of my shitlist too long with Scientologists, and really all Fanatical Believers of all religious who sprout never ending religious crap, claim to be the most religious, and steal or murder. Or use their religion to hurt and abuse people.  

[walnutqueen]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

 

 

I'm a Christian and I hate those people. Them and Catholic priests are at the top of my shitlist too long with Scientologists, and really all Fanatical Believers of all religious who sprout never ending religious crap, claim to be the most religious, and steal or murder. Or use their religion to hurt and abuse people.  

Well, at least we have True Crime shows to co-commiserate  over ...  ;-)

Remind me to PM you about a story involving a religious fanatic whose brother was one of those midnight wrestlers for Jeezus.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

Well, at least we have True Crime shows to co-commiserate  over ...  ;-)

Remind me to PM you about a story involving a religious fanatic whose brother was one of those midnight wrestlers for Jeezus.

That sounds very interesting!

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

That sounds very interesting!

Very tall, and the best kisser. Yes, i briefly dated my Solar Dude.  I had to remind him of his religion, because he kept stopping by to check out my hot tub.

His brother was a full-fledged preacher of the worst kind.  Think 1980's frizzy permed hair and a Jane Fonda unitard, only tackier.  On my TeeVee breaking chains for Jesus.  Lunatic did something weird with hot water bottles, too. Had his idiot brother convinced there was a cabal of lesbos in Georgia getting impregnated just so they could abort babies. It was an extreme exercise in restraint to neither fuck him or kill him.

[BusyOctober]

Did anyone see "Gypsy's Revenge" on ID 11.6.18?  Wow...what a freak show from start to finish!  I think the Gypsy was a victim, but I also think she was  actively contributing to her mother's grifting ways as she got older.  Both the mom & the daughter were "Street smart" in the ways of conning the people around them.  Even though they both looked mentally challenged, they were acting IMO.  Gypsy was in FULL control of the murder plot.  She duped the "BF" just like her Mommy Dearest duped their friends & family.  Gypsy took advantage of Nick's autism and ran the scheme.  She was savvy enough to a) setup fake FB accounts, sneak onto mom's computer & phone; b) not leave the murder weapon behind; c) mail the knife vs. carrying it with them in case of metal detectors; d) take the money envelope from her dead mom's drawer.  Her mom may have created the monster, but Gypsy is guilty of murder.

I feel bad the poor girl was tortured physically & psychologically, but I think Gypsy knew all the fun & games & attention & money would stop if she stopped pretending she was disabled. BTW- HOW in the Hell do doctors just perform surgical procedures on a creepy mother's insistence it be done "because"?   How does a doctor agree to feeding tubes without investigating first?  I had severe abdominal pain for a few weeks and went to see 2 different doctors.  I suggested it could be gall stones since my sister had the same kind of pain the year before & that was the issue in her case.  Neither doctor thought an ultra sound or scan was needed. I was told by both doctors that I should try over the counter meds to alleviate pain because "no doctor wants to perform unnecessary or costly procedures".  Two weeks after the last doctor appointment I ended up in the ER, unable to walk and in so much pain.  I had over 40 gall stones and was septic.  The ER doc said if I waited another few hours I could have died.  

And oh my God, those voices!  Both the mom & Gypsy had the most annoying high pitched baby voices!  I feel bad for any dogs living in their neighborhood.  That feeble voice was just accentuated to add to the "poor little sick waif" persona they were cultivating. 

[Brattinella]

Dee Dee was a monster, pure and simple.  She deliberately tortured her baby girl almost her entire life.  She lost her teeth!  She had countless surgeries and biopsies and tests and feeding tubes and kept in a wheelchair for decades, not to mention LYING to her daughter about having MS.  Yeah, she wanted her mother dead, darn tootin'!  Who wouldn't?  But she didn't kill her.  And the mitigating circumstances of her brutal life since childhood should have suspended her entire sentence.

[funky-rat]

3 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

Did anyone see "Gypsy's Revenge" on ID 11.6.18?  Wow...what a freak show from start to finish!  I think the Gypsy was a victim, but I also think she was  actively contributing to her mother's grifting ways as she got older.  Both the mom & the daughter were "Street smart" in the ways of conning the people around them.  Even though they both looked mentally challenged, they were acting IMO.  Gypsy was in FULL control of the murder plot.  She duped the "BF" just like her Mommy Dearest duped their friends & family.  Gypsy took advantage of Nick's autism and ran the scheme.  She was savvy enough to a) setup fake FB accounts, sneak onto mom's computer & phone; b) not leave the murder weapon behind; c) mail the knife vs. carrying it with them in case of metal detectors; d) take the money envelope from her dead mom's drawer.  Her mom may have created the monster, but Gypsy is guilty of murder.

I feel bad the poor girl was tortured physically & psychologically, but I think Gypsy knew all the fun & games & attention & money would stop if she stopped pretending she was disabled. BTW- HOW in the Hell do doctors just perform surgical procedures on a creepy mother's insistence it be done "because"?   How does a doctor agree to feeding tubes without investigating first?  I had severe abdominal pain for a few weeks and went to see 2 different doctors.  I suggested it could be gall stones since my sister had the same kind of pain the year before & that was the issue in her case.  Neither doctor thought an ultra sound or scan was needed. I was told by both doctors that I should try over the counter meds to alleviate pain because "no doctor wants to perform unnecessary or costly procedures".  Two weeks after the last doctor appointment I ended up in the ER, unable to walk and in so much pain.  I had over 40 gall stones and was septic.  The ER doc said if I waited another few hours I could have died.  

And oh my God, those voices!  Both the mom & Gypsy had the most annoying high pitched baby voices!  I feel bad for any dogs living in their neighborhood.  That feeble voice was just accentuated to add to the "poor little sick waif" persona they were cultivating. 

There's a documentary on this case called "Mommy Dead And Dearest".  It covered some different things than this special did, but the same general stuff.  If you look on the "HBO DOCUMENTARIES" forum, you'll find it, and a lot of discussion of it.  What I found telling is on the documentary, is they interviewed DeeDee's father.  He said they called him to come claim her ashes after she was cremated.  He didn't want them.  When they asked him what they should do with them, he said to flush them down the toilet.

I'm 50/50 on Gypsy.  As the spouse of an adult survivor of severe child abuse, I can see some of the same thought patterns and ideas that abused people frequently have.  My husband told a doctor that he was being abused.  The doctor, instead of calling authorities (this was the 80's), told his mother what was being said, and he received a severe beating for "lying".  He was sent from doctor to doctor as well (mental health doctors).  When one wouldn't tell his mother what was said in sessions, she'd find another that would.  Eventually, he just told anyone who asked that he was "fine" and just learned to shut up about it (in response to the people on the special who all said "She should have told me").  I'm also not sure what type of neurological damages she suffered from taking meds she didn't need, and what that may have done to her thought processes, etc.  She is a manipulator, but she got that from her mother, and she definitely manipulated Nick.  No doubt about it.  And for all of the people on the special who said "She should have just run away", well, she did once before.  And her mom found her and brought her home, and abused the crap out of her.

As for the doctors, I've read in a few articles and it was hinted to last night and on the documentary that many doctors fear reprisal and bad publicity, so they just go along.  Many also want good publicity, and to say they were treating a poor sick child like Gypsy who had a strong following of supporters could bring them more patients, etc.  Plus, DeeDee was good with doctoring medical records (she had been a nurse), and would often say that medical records had been lost or destroyed when she was asked for them.  One doctor who suspected Munchausen By Proxy and documented it never called authorities, and he admits to it on camera because he didn't feel it would do any good.

The special didn't touch on that DeeDee would use Gypsy as a distraction so she could steal from stores all the time, and would hide things in Gypsy's wheelchair. So Gypsy learned from a young age that she could steal, and where to hide things, so that's how she got the phone she used to contact Nick, and a lot of her cosplay stuff.  She mentioned on the documentary that she asked her mother why she had to be in the chair when she could walk, and her mother told her that her legs didn't work good, and to stay in the chair (or something similar).  I am 100% confident that at some time, DeeDee told Gypsy they had to keep this up or everything they had would be taken from them (since DeeDee lied to get everything they had and presumably Habitat For Humanity, etc, would want their stuff back) and she had better keep up the charade - she's never admitted to it, but she hints at it.  The Documentary also said that there was a room in the house that was full-up with stuff they had been given/grifted/stole.

Gypsy had a part in it, for sure.  More than she let on, but covering your butt and shifting blame is the abused child in her.  My husband still blame shifts and it's a bad habit I'm trying to break him of.  His mother died in 2007 and she was a monster, although not as bad as DeeDee, but he still loved her in a twisted way, and that's hard for him to reconcile.  I agree with her friend who said that being in prison is akin to her going to college (and remember, Gypsy didn't go to school - I can't remember if it was the documentary or some articles I've read, but she was supposed to be "home schooled" but wasn't really), and that it's really the best thing for her because even in prison, she is free.  She is receiving mental health help there, and she is learning things like routine, self care, etc.  I do think she needs to be there because it's essential to her being rehabilitated and eventually re-released - they can't just put her out on her own because she has zero real life skills, except for how to grift.  She's more like an abused spouse who can't take any more and fights back one last time than a thrill killer, or similar.  I have hope for her.  The documentary showed that her dad visits her and they're re-establishing a relationship, because she'll need that when she gets out.  I'm surprised Nick STILL hasn't gone to trial.

[Brattinella]

1 hour ago, funky-rat said:

I agree with her friend who said that being in prison is akin to her going to college (and remember, Gypsy didn't go to school - I can't remember if it was the documentary or some articles I've read, but she was supposed to be "home schooled" but wasn't really), and that it's really the best thing for her because even in prison, she is free.  She is receiving mental health help there, and she is learning things like routine, self care, etc.  I do think she needs to be there because it's essential to her being rehabilitated and eventually re-released - they can't just put her out on her own because she has zero real life skills, except for how to grift.  She's more like an abused spouse who can't take any more and fights back one last time than a thrill killer, or similar.  I have hope for her.  The documentary showed that her dad visits her and they're re-establishing a relationship, because she'll need that when she gets out.

Yes, I must agree that prison is doing her good.  She looks very happy now, clean and groomed and she has a lot of poise now.  I hope when she is released she finds a REAL support system that won't be looking to use her.

[funky-rat]

12 minutes ago, Brattinella said:

Yes, I must agree that prison is doing her good.  She looks very happy now, clean and groomed and she has a lot of poise now.  I hope when she is released she finds a REAL support system that won't be looking to use her.

Her dad seems like a decent enough guy.  He was just too young to be a dad, and DeeDee manipulated the heck out of him too.  In the documentary, you see his current wife and the kids the two of them have together, and they seem like they'll be a good support system for her.  His current wife seems like a kind person.

[Vivigirl10]

1 hour ago, funky-rat said:

I agree with her friend who said that being in prison is akin to her going to college (and remember, Gypsy didn't go to school - I can't remember if it was the documentary or some articles I've read, but she was supposed to be "home schooled" but wasn't really), and that it's really the best thing for her because even in prison, she is free. 

I too felt that she's more "free" in prison!

5 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

And oh my God, those voices!  Both the mom & Gypsy had the most annoying high pitched baby voices! 

BusyOctober - word to your entire post!  Gypsy's voice especially was God awful.  However, did you notice in her current interview it had lowered about 10 octaves?  It was definitely accentuated to play into her feeble and babyish image.  

Quote

BTW- HOW in the Hell do doctors just perform surgical procedures on a creepy mother's insistence it be done "because"?   How does a doctor agree to feeding tubes without investigating first? 

Absolutely horrifying.  I have to wonder if any of those doctors have been investigated post reveal? 

As far as The Disappearance of Phoenix Colden, did anyone think she may have committed suicide?  Was that control freak Mother ever investigated?  I was really relieved that they finally had a meeting with the St. Louis PD who was actively involved in the case.  For the whole first half, I felt it was presented that the police had done absolutely ZERO investigation of this case.  For example, when Mother presented the bag that contained the contents found in Phoenix's car, they completely made it appear that they were the first to stumble upon the bill revealing that she had a second cell phone.  No, PD was well aware of that as it was shown later.  The reporter lady seems prone to overplaying/overdramatizing every little thing.  The retired policeman just seems a little slow on the draw. 

I was confused about one part that I must have misunderstood.  I thought they said that the parents had moved out of the home and neighborhood that they were living in when Phoenix disappeared.  But then the Mother said that they have never taken down the Christmas tree and it and the presents remain where they did when Phoenix left, waiting for her to return.  Did they take everything to the new house and just put it up again?  Just a little thing but it bothered me.  They kept showing the outside of the old house too throughout the show, whenever they visited the parents, which seems odd if they weren't there anymore?  

Phoenix seemed like a really good girl who became lost in life.  I'm not entirely convinced that she got caught up in drugs or prostitution and that's what led to her demise.  I felt so bad for her former best friend.  Watching that video of your friend who has been missing for years must have been extremely hard.

I haven't watched the second episode yet so I'm looking forward to it.    

[geekgirl921]

2 hours ago, Brattinella said:

Yes, I must agree that prison is doing her good.  She looks very happy now, clean and groomed and she has a lot of poise now.  I hope when she is released she finds a REAL support system that won't be looking to use her.

I think one of the problems was not only was she abused, she was infantilized so she didn't have the maturity to consider her situation and what to do about it. 

[funky-rat]

18 hours ago, geekgirl921 said:

I think one of the problems was not only was she abused, she was infantilized so she didn't have the maturity to consider her situation and what to do about it. 

This.

My husband wasn't infantilized, but his mother saw to it that he couldn't escape from her.  He wasn't allowed to get his drivers license unless he bought his own car (which he couldn't do as an underage person) and supplied his own insurance - he got a bicycle, and a bus pass for when it was cold/raining/snowing.  That made it so he couldn't get too far away.  By the time he was in 11th grade, he was going to school and tech full time, and working 2 jobs.  He handed most of his checks to her, and he covered most of the household bills by that time.  He had to give up sports, which he was good at, so that they could have electricity in the house.  She told him he had to pay for cable since he watched most of the TV (which was a lie) and he had a small window air conditioner that he bought himself because his room was on the 3rd floor of a stuffy row home, so because he was using so much electricity, he paid that bill too.  If he needed a ride from them, he put gas in the car.  So he really had no money left to use to take off anywhere.  When he did have some extra money, he'd put things on lay-away, and bought himself a cheap K-Mart stereo, and a Nintendo.  She freaked out, screaming about him wasting money while there was a dress she would love to have at the mall and she could have bought 2 of them.  She kept on him so much about it he went down to the mall and bought the damn ugly dress.  When he was done with school, he tried to go in to the military, but he got rejected when he couldn't pee in a cup on command.  He ended up in a screaming match with the drill sergeant when the drill sergeant insulted his manhood.  He ended up going to another state to a more intensive tech school.  When he got his grant and loan money, they were put in to a bank account for auto withdraw - the was years before phone or internet banking.  They recommended he have a co-signer on the account, and he chose his mom.  Big mistake.  Six months in to school (where he also worked 2 jobs while attending), his step-dad lost his job and she took the money out of his account.  He got kicked out of school because he couldn't pay.  The only way to get his money back was to report her to the cops.  He declined, because he knew what would happen not only from his mom, but how she'd spin it to the family.  He re-paid that money she stole to the student loan companies.  Her response was that he should have sued the school for false intentions, since he never received his full schooling (HUH????).  She said it was my husband's fault because they needed him to contribute to the household and he left.  She was sure he'd come back home.  He never did.  And until she died, she hated me because I "took him away", and tried to manipulate him constantly.  Everything was his fault, or mine.  Even in his 30's, she was still trying to drag him back.  It was unrelenting and never-ending.  And he had it just 1/10th as bad as Gypsy did, so I have some sympathy for her.

Edited November 8, 2018 by funky-rat
Continuity

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, funky-rat said:

What I found telling is on the documentary, is they interviewed DeeDee's father.  He said they called him to come claim her ashes after she was cremated.  He didn't want them.  When they asked him what they should do with them, he said to flush them down the toilet.

...wow.

Damn. 

I remember first seeing the story about Gypsy on a "20/20" episode, but I did catch the documentary last night. The level of lies and manipulation and deception is truly unreal, and while @funky-rat gives a very good, valid explanation for why and how so many doctors overlooked this stuff, or didn't follow up on suspicions, or whatever...it's still very disturbing to me that so many doctors were either that easily fooled and misled or did nothing. 

(On that note, @funky-rat, my heart goes out to your husband for all the hell he went through. Your post perfectly illustrates the toll this kind of abuse can take on a kid, and gives me an even better insight into what Gypsy struggled with, and continues to struggle with. I do have sympathy for her, and I hope she is getting as much legitimate help and support as she possibly can, because it's clear she needs it. I can't begin to imagine what the future will hold for her, but I hope something good can come from all of this.)

[andromeda331]

13 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

Very tall, and the best kisser. Yes, i briefly dated my Solar Dude.  I had to remind him of his religion, because he kept stopping by to check out my hot tub.

His brother was a full-fledged preacher of the worst kind.  Think 1980's frizzy permed hair and a Jane Fonda unitard, only tackier.  On my TeeVee breaking chains for Jesus.  Lunatic did something weird with hot water bottles, too. Had his idiot brother convinced there was a cabal of lesbos in Georgia getting impregnated just so they could abort babies. It was an extreme exercise in restraint to neither fuck him or kill him.

That's crazy!

[Cherrio]

On 11/7/2018 at 1:15 PM, Kiki620 said:

Was that control freak Mother ever investigated? 

I would definitely include her on a list of suspects.   I think she was/is was tightly wound she could of easily lost it and killed her in a fit of rage. The husband looked scared, meek and presents himself as someone who probably does not move a muscle without permission.

I could easily see that happening as Phoenix was not and did not want to be a perfect little bell ringer.

At any rate it was 100% someone she knew.

[Calamity Jane]

On 11/7/2018 at 4:45 AM, BusyOctober said:

Did anyone see "Gypsy's Revenge" on ID 11.6.18?  Wow...what a freak show from start to finish!  I think the Gypsy was a victim, but I also think she was  actively contributing to her mother's grifting ways as she got older.  Both the mom & the daughter were "Street smart" in the ways of conning the people around them.  Even though they both looked mentally challenged, they were acting IMO.  Gypsy was in FULL control of the murder plot.  She duped the "BF" just like her Mommy Dearest duped their friends & family.  Gypsy took advantage of Nick's autism and ran the scheme.  She was savvy enough to a) setup fake FB accounts, sneak onto mom's computer & phone; b) not leave the murder weapon behind; c) mail the knife vs. carrying it with them in case of metal detectors; d) take the money envelope from her dead mom's drawer.  Her mom may have created the monster, but Gypsy is guilty of murder.

I feel bad the poor girl was tortured physically & psychologically, but I think Gypsy knew all the fun & games & attention & money would stop if she stopped pretending she was disabled. BTW- HOW in the Hell do doctors just perform surgical procedures on a creepy mother's insistence it be done "because"?   How does a doctor agree to feeding tubes without investigating first?  I had severe abdominal pain for a few weeks and went to see 2 different doctors.  I suggested it could be gall stones since my sister had the same kind of pain the year before & that was the issue in her case.  Neither doctor thought an ultra sound or scan was needed. I was told by both doctors that I should try over the counter meds to alleviate pain because "no doctor wants to perform unnecessary or costly procedures".  Two weeks after the last doctor appointment I ended up in the ER, unable to walk and in so much pain.  I had over 40 gall stones and was septic.  The ER doc said if I waited another few hours I could have died.  

And oh my God, those voices!  Both the mom & Gypsy had the most annoying high pitched baby voices!  I feel bad for any dogs living in their neighborhood.  That feeble voice was just accentuated to add to the "poor little sick waif" persona they were cultivating. 

So many things to wonder about in this case, but it's clear Dee Dee was a master of manipulation and knew just how to pull the strings.  

After the HBO documentary, I felt only pity and sorrow for Gypsy, and I still do, but mixed now with a feeling she really was the driving force and brains behind her mother's death.  What pushed me over to that was when she said that Nick "ordered" her to do various things during and after the attack.  He just did not have the force of personality for that to be credible to me.  If anyone was issuing orders, it's pretty clear it was Gypsy and she's trying to mitigate her responsibility for what he did.  

It doesn't change the horror of what her demented monster of a mother put her through, but it does make her more culpable than I thought after Mommy Dead and Dearest, and she's obviously more intelligent and capable of planning than she ever showed before prison.  I'm glad she's getting care and socialization in prison (who would ever think of that being possible??), and I hope she can have a somewhat normal life after she is released, but I think she will need massive and consistent care and guidance for that to happen.  On her own, I think she would just connect with grifters like her mother and continue down that path.  

[LuvMyShows]

The show on Gypsy was fascinating.  I had not been familiar with the case before, so all I knew was what I was seeing.  What confused the crap out of me was when they showed that video of her in the snow, jumping off the porch railing into the snow, after having made clear that she needed to be in a wheelchair and had muscular dystrophy.  That's when I started to get suspicious, and my suspicions increased when they also said she had cerebral palsy.  How could any doctor worth his/her salt, not question that?  What doctor could make those terribly inaccurate diagnoses in the first place?  

[tobeannounced]

8 hours ago, Calamity Jane said:

So many things to wonder about in this case, but it's clear Dee Dee was a master of manipulation and knew just how to pull the strings.  

After the HBO documentary, I felt only pity and sorrow for Gypsy, and I still do, but mixed now with a feeling she really was the driving force and brains behind her mother's death.  What pushed me over to that was when she said that Nick "ordered" her to do various things during and after the attack.  He just did not have the force of personality for that to be credible to me.  If anyone was issuing orders, it's pretty clear it was Gypsy and she's trying to mitigate her responsibility for what he did.  

It doesn't change the horror of what her demented monster of a mother put her through, but it does make her more culpable than I thought after Mommy Dead and Dearest, and she's obviously more intelligent and capable of planning than she ever showed before prison.  I'm glad she's getting care and socialization in prison (who would ever think of that being possible??), and I hope she can have a somewhat normal life after she is released, but I think she will need massive and consistent care and guidance for that to happen.  On her own, I think she would just connect with grifters like her mother and continue down that path.  

That's what pinged my hinky meter, too, Calamity Jane. That and the act she put on when she was first talking to the detective in the interrogation room, not knowing he knew the full story. She definitely deserves sympathy and consideration for the ordeal she went through, but many people have had horrible childhoods and not resorted to murder.

[SunnyBeBe]

I agree that the doctors who harmed Gypsy should be investigated.  Regardless, of what the lying mother said, they should have been able to spot what was happening or at the very least, refused to treat Gypsy for nonexistent ailments.  It's incomprehensible really.  I'm a knowledgeable adult, who must use substantial skills in convincing a doctor to prescribe a proper cough medication for me!  So, this lady convinces MULTIPLE doctors to perform unnecessary procedures on a healthy child!  I call BS.  Some of those medical providers should pay.  I wonder if Gypsy has consulted with an attorney about recovery. I wonder if it's too late. 

Edited November 9, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[funky-rat]

12 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

The show on Gypsy was fascinating.  I had not been familiar with the case before, so all I knew was what I was seeing.  What confused the crap out of me was when they showed that video of her in the snow, jumping off the porch railing into the snow, after having made clear that she needed to be in a wheelchair and had muscular dystrophy.  That's when I started to get suspicious, and my suspicions increased when they also said she had cerebral palsy.  How could any doctor worth his/her salt, not question that?  What doctor could make those terribly inaccurate diagnoses in the first place?  

 

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I agree that the doctors who harmed Gypsy should be investigated.  Regardless, of what the lying mother said, they should have been able to spot what was happening or at the very least, refused to treat Gypsy for nonexistent ailments.  It's incomprehensible really.  I'm a knowledgeable adult, who must use substantial skills in convincing a doctor to prescribe a proper cough medication for me!  So, this lady convinces MULTIPLE doctors to perform unnecessary procedures on a healthy child!  I call BS.  Some of those medical providers should pay.  I wonder if Gypsy has consulted with an attorney about recovery. I wonder if it's too late. 

Doctors and medical records are easy to flub with, at least for a while.  You go to many, don't tell the other ones that you're seeing multiple doctors, etc.  It's how pill seekers get away with it for a bit (although it's getting gradually harder).  Gypsy's dad himself said that every few years, DeeDee would move.  It's likely because they caught on to her, and she bailed, or they told her to take a hike.  It's also likely why she kept changing her name (Clauddine, Claudine, DeeDee, Blanchard, Blancharde, etc).  Once Katrina hit, she kicked it in to high gear, because now she had a sob story that few would question.  And sometimes, medical ailments are idiopathic in nature.  Had DeeDee not been offed,  I think someone would have caught up to her soon.  As well-connected as things are already and are getting, she wouldn't be able to maintain forever.  Then she would have needed a new grift and a new identity, because she would have been exposed, and in today's society, they would have made her and her lies "go viral".

As for Nick "ordering" her to do stuff, I'm not sure if I really buy it either.  He does claim to be schizophrenic and hear voices, but when they ask if a doctor has diagnosed him as such, he says no, but "they probably should" (his mom says he was diagnosed as Autistic).  I do believe he told her to stay in the bathroom, etc, and I could possibly buy that in the state of mind he was in, he could have had some personality changes, but I don't think to the degree Gypsy claimed.  As for mailing the knife, to me that's not being savvy, it's being stupid and unprepared.  It should have been cleaned, wiped, and destroyed/disposed of (I watch too many true crime shows - I am NOT condoning what happened).  The postal service could have intercepted it at any time.

And as for Nick's prior arrest for his 9 hour marathon of ickyness at McDonald's...…..EW! 

[SunnyBeBe]

I don't give the doctors a pass. They certainly could  have seen marks, scars, etc on her body from previous procedures .

   There were so many who let Gypsy down.  She likely was on Medicaid and that would require medical documentation, plus, she would have had a case worker.  Plus, there are hospital social workers, family friends, neighbors, family members, church representatives, charity organizations, doctors, nurses, insurance claim reps, pharmacists,, and others who saw what was happening and chose to ignore it.  That situation was over the top and not just a little wacky, imo.  To me, when a child's welfare is involved, we ALL have a duty to look into things, investigate, document, pursue and demand that things be done properly.  With Gypsy, she was let down in colossal fashion by a wall of people and agencies. With all we have learned from other horrific cases, we should have a healthy dose of skepticism whenever a child is put out there, like Gypsy was. 

[funky-rat]

I'm not giving anyone a pass.  But it is extremely easy for people to fall through the cracks.

A few interesting articles that help fill in gaps, etc:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/michelledean/dee-dee-wanted-her-daughter-to-be-sick-gypsy-wanted-her-mom#.td8pL1DoPg

https://thoughtcatalog.com/m-j-pack/2015/06/terrifying-facebook-post-leads-to-discovery-of-brutally-murdered-mother-and-her-missing-disabled-daughter/

https://hellogiggles.com/reviews-coverage/watching-mommy-dead-and-dearest/

[auntjess]

Alexa may be a witness in a murder trial.
https://www.iflscience.com/technology/how-amazons-alexa-could-help-solve-a-double-murder-case/?fbclid=IwAR37-S8kEZTnHMPK0MfJnDK7PDvPUzjd4R0pETPRSfsFyK0M73KfMqv1l_4

[auntjess]

Gypsy's boyfriend's trial is underway.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/11/15/girl-wheelchair-said-she-was-critically-ill-her-mothers-brutal-murder-exposed-truth/?utm_term=.78d822b15175

[sskrill]

Collier Boyle - I feel really bad for him but I think he really needs to move on.  The father is a lying asshole - Collier clearly knows this.  I realize he's your father but he doesn't care about you at all - he proved that when he returned your letter.  The only reason he let you back into his life was because he needs you in his breast pocket for the probation board.

I've never been through something this awful but I just can't understand why he can't walk away from his father.

Also, I think its awful that none of the family took the 2 kids in, and instead separated them - and also not maintaining the sibling relationship. 

Collier really got a raw deal in all this.  I really wish he could find a way to feel whole.

Edited November 18, 2018 by sskrill

[tobeannounced]

42 minutes ago, sskrill said:

Collier Boyle - I feel really bad for him but I think he really needs to move on.  The father is a lying asshole - Collier clearly knows this.  I realize he's your father but he doesn't care about you at all - he proved that when he returned your letter.  The only reason he let you back into his life was because he needs you in his breast pocket for the probation board.

I've never been through something this awful but I just can't understand why he can't walk away from his father.

Also, I think its awful that none of the family took the 2 kids in, and instead separated them - and also not maintaining the sibling relationship. 

Collier really got a raw deal in all this.  I really wish he could find a way to feel whole.

I totally agree, sskrill. I really hope he can move on. If he can make a connection with his sister, that would be nice, if that's what she wants as well. I wonder about the half sibling that the girlfriend was pregnant with and if there's any relationship there. Either way, I hope he's able to find someone and have a family of his own.

[druzy]

Starcasm Interview with Collier. You explain in A Murder in Mansfield that your extended family more or less withdrew from you in the aftermath of your mother’s murder, such that you had to be taken into the foster care system.

Quote

Very early on the morning of December 31st, 1989, Jack Boyle, a military veteran and one of the most prominent physicians in Mansfield, Ohio, murdered his wife, Noreen. Jack and Noreen’s eleven-year-old son Collier awoke to the sound of two heavy thuds, which he would later testify in court were the sounds of his mother’s skull being smashed. But, frightened in the middle of the night, Collier feigned sleep. And, in the morning, Noreen was gone — on what Jack told his son was a vacation.

The following month, investigators found Noreen’s body buried under the foundation of a home Jack Boyle had recently purchased in Erie, Pennsylvania. He was charged with homicide, and Collier’s testimony helped convict him. Twenty-six years later, Collier, now a filmmaker, began to follow through on the lifelong promise he’d made to himself to “do something positive” with the tragedy that tore his family apart.

A Murder in Mansfield, the result of that promise, is a quiet, painfully beautiful film about trauma and release. Collier, who is credited as an executive producer, worked with director Barbara Kopple, a two-time winner of the Academy Award for Best Documentary: in 1977, for ; and, with Arthur Cohn, for 1991’s American Dream. The film debuted in at the DOC NYC Fest in November of 2017, screened at festivals worldwide over the next several months, and has its television debut on November 17, 2018 at 9 PM on Investigation Discovery.

We spoke with Collier about the process of making A Murder in Mansfield, his extended (and estranged) family’s reaction to the film, and the importance of letting go. This interview was conducted via telephone; it has been lightly edited for clarity.

You explain in A Murder in Mansfield that your extended family more or less withdrew from you in the aftermath of your mother’s murder, such that you had to be taken into the foster care system. Was in part because those family members weren’t able to process such a shocking event? Had you been close with your other relatives before the murder?

That basically sums it up. There was way too much for them to deal with. But my father molesting my cousins — my mother’s sister’s children — that most certainly created a little bit of a rift in the family, as one would expect. So there was that. [Laughs]

But my mother was very close to my father’s mother, and her best friend was my father’s brother. Both of those people pretty much just disappeared. Even my mother’s sister, they were still sisters…but, just, the tragedy of all of it was just so much for everyone to bear. When you’re a kid you don’t realize it, but when you’re an adult you start to understand that it’s too much, it can just be too much to process.

Very early in A Murder in Mansfield, you share what sort of amounts to your mission statement for your return to Mansfield, saying that you “want to do something positive with this tragedy.” How long after your mother’s murder and your father’s trial did you start thinking in those terms?

That was immediate. I just did my first TED Talk a week ago, and my talk was about resilience through community. I was fortunate enough to be raised in my early years by a mother who placed a very heavy emphasis on education, especially education through the arts, so I was able to cope by using the arts. I remember being in foster care and saying “I’m gonna do something with this one day.” I went to high school thinking that; I went to college and studied vocal performance thinking that; then I dropped out to go to LA [to become a filmmaker].

Very many people come out here with a dream and don’t get to realize it. And I am so fortunate that I got to realize that dream — to make something that not only changed my life, but also impacted so many people in such a positive way.

I was also struck by a related scene: the exchange that you have with the current owners of your childhood home. You’re standing in their kitchen (which, of course, is also your kitchen) telling them about all the love you feel in the house thanks to their family, and all the beautiful memories you know they have of the house. You even say you feel like this family has put on “a new coat of paint” with their love. That moment seemed almost impossibly generous to me — I don’t think many people could have responded with such positivity.

That scene is all organic. I was on the phone with Barbara, whose flight to Ohio was delayed, and she’s like, “Go up to the house!” And I’m like, “I can’t go up to the house!” But she persuaded me to knock on the door and talk to the current homeowners. So when you see me knocking on the door of the house, that’s the first time I was knocking on the door of that house since I lived there. We didn’t contact that family during pre-production.

Of course they knew what had happened [in their home]. And I think they had only lived in the house maybe two months. It was really cool; they were just so lovely to let us into their home.

I wonder if you can share anything more about your sister Elizabeth, who currently goes by Caitlyn. She appears very briefly but powerfully in A Murder in Mansfield, via your recollection of her, and there’s a short scene where you call her and leave a message. Were you ever able to get in touch? Did she meet with you, but not want to appear in the film?

I have never spoken to her — I haven’t spoken to her in 28 years. We made several phone calls, people picked up, didn’t answer, there was dead air on the line. We started talking, were hanged up on. I don’t know if we had a wrong number, if the person on the other end wanted us to think we had a wrong number. Obviously you can go do a database search and look up the name and get the phone number [to check]. We never got a response on the phone.

I was able to speak to my half-sister about the project, and she was hesitant about participating. And I understand that. She has a relationship with her mother, and her mother did not want to participate. So that was that.

You say in the film that you “felt you were ready” to see your mother’s full case file — including the crime scene photographs of her exhumed body — 26 years after her murder. But you also say that your whole life you’d been “haunted” by the idea of what your mother looked like after being murdered. Do you regret going with Lieutenant Messmore to look at those images?

It was completely cathartic. It was, again, one of those moments that’s very organic in the film. We had just got done shooting with the Messemores in their kitchen; I was getting ready to go; and they asked what I was doing. Susan said they were going to the police station to film my mother’s file, and they invited me to go with. And I was like, “You know what, the most important thing that we’re doing with this film is showing vulnerability — that you can get through these tough moments in life.” Because there’s strength in that. And if we can do that, if we can show it, then people will realize that they can get through their own trauma. And being able to do that, to get something that had haunted me my whole life….I don’t have any regrets about doing that. It was completely cathartic.

It must have been easier to do — not easy by any means, but somewhat easier — because you had Dave and Susan Messmore, who’d been one of several parental figures in your life, there with you.

There was definitely a sense of comfort. But [Dave] was concerned. He still is concerned. But it was such a necessary part of the process, because it shows that vulnerability. This is something I was so passionate about doing: having the opportunity to expose those vulnerable moments on the camera. And made it so worth it, because it’s touched so many people. It’s touched so many people’s lives, having made this film. And I did that. And it’s pretty incredible to realize I’ve done that.

You are a filmmaker yourself, and you helped produce for A Murder in Mansfield You’re also the subject and essentially the main character of this intensely personal film. How did your role in the narrative complicate the filmmaking process?

Here’s the thing. I was very involved in the pre-production. For example, I’m essentially the person who got us into the prison. All the attempts failed, and I had to do a whole song and dance to get us in there. And the officials were not happy to do it, not at all. I will assure you that I am not on the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction Christmas card list anymore. [Laughs]

But I didn’t see the film until it premiered at Doc NYC on November 12th of last year. Originally, I was going to be a character in it, but I wasn’t going to be the main focus. I thought “Oh, I’ll be in this a little bit; we’ll shoot some stuff” — which we did. There are many interviews, many things we shot that did not appear in the film. But when Barbara was crafting the narrative, I just became the main focus. Barbara is such a skilled filmmaker that she was able to craft the narrative that she wanted to film. That’s why she’s won two Academy Awards. [Laughs] So I really trusted the process with her.

And she was very nervous. She told me at the premiere, “God, I’m so nervous about you seeing this.” I had to remind her, “Hey. We had an agreement that I wouldn’t see the film until I was sitting in a theater with other people. And then I’ll see the film.”

How has Mansfield responded to the documentary? And has the city’s response been what you hoped it would be?

It’s been absolutely incredible. It’s been an honor. And the way the city responded almost 30 years ago to the whole story was incredible.

Do you have any extended family in Mansfield, or have they all scattered, moved away?

Oh no — they’re all still in Mansfield.

Have you had any further contact with your father since visiting him in prison?

There’s a moment in the film at the end when I say “Our time is up. We’ve got to go.” That was it. That was me letting go of him.

Has he reached out to you?

Oh, for sure. Absolutely. And I haven’t read a single word. And I’m sure he’s seen the Dr. Phil episode, and I’m sure he’s gonna continue to hear about it. I haven’t looked back. [Pause] And it was a long time coming.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, sskrill said:

I've never been through something this awful but I just can't understand why he can't walk away from his father.

 

I think the fact he wanted some answers was a large part of it, along with the fact he was 12 at the time his mom was murdered. Maybe if he'd been an adult when his dad killed his mom, he might've responded differently and cut him off sooner, I don't know. But I can't even begin to imagine how much time he must've spent, as a teenager, wrestling with what his dad did. We've seen many stories about how kids struggle to deal with the fact one of their parents killed the other (or was a serial killer, or whatever), after all, and this seems to be another example of that. 

And there's the whole attitude that some in society have about how you need to patch things up with your family, no matter what they did (an attitude which we've seen many people rant about here, because, obviously, that's FAR easier said than done sometimes, depending on how bad the family history is). He may have felt pressure when he was younger to not cut his dad off, and then whatever manipulation his dad tried to push on him clearly affected him at times, too. Even if he knew deep down his dad was using him, the snippets of the dad's letters that we saw clearly had just enough in them to try and make Collier feel guilty or sympathetic. 

The way the documentary ended, he seemed pretty well ready to put his dad behind him and move on, though. His reaction to seeing the photos of his mom's body were heartbreaking, and I feel like that was the final straw for him. I hope this investigation gave him the answers he was looking for, and he can find the peace of mind he clearly longed for all these years going forward. 

Quote

Also, I think its awful that none of the family took the 2 kids in, and instead separated them - and also not maintaining the sibling relationship. 

My mom and I said the same thing. Their fear of the dad clearly won out, which I totally get, but it sucks that the kids had to suffer because of it. I can't recall now if he said he tried to find and reach out to his sister at any point-if he hasn't, I wonder if he ever will. 

ETA: Regarding the article shared above, well, that answers that, then. 

It does seem like he did have a few other adults in his life who cared about him, though, judging from the interviews we saw. I was especially touched by the interviews with the guy who worked his case, because yeah, on the one hand, you need to keep that professional barrier, but on the other hand, you work a case like this, you see a kid having to testify about something so awful, who's already lost his mom in such a horrible way, and is about to lose his dad as well...I don't blame anybody in that situation for wanting to be like, "Can I just take care of this kid forever?" It'd be very, very hard to not be emotionally involved, at least on some level. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Annber03

[Brattinella]

6 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

And there's the whole attitude that some in society have about how you need to patch things up with your family, no matter what they did (an attitude which we've seen many people rant about here, because, obviously, that's FAR easier said than done sometimes, depending on how bad the family history is).

Exactly so.  At some point, with some family members, there is a final straw that breaks the camel's back.  No going back to fix it, and no regrets.

[sskrill]

I wondered about the half sibling too - but I think that was best to just never get involved in that part - you never knew her or that kid - no need to get involved now.

I get the family pressue and whatnot but its been almost 30 years ... and he's about 40 now.  And really, it doesn't seem like any of their family gives a crap about the father, or believes he didn't do it, so I can't see where there's anyone who would have really guilted him into keeping a relationship.  

I also didn't get the part about not letting him legally change his name till he was 18.  His mother was gone, his father was never going to get parental rights back, just let him take the adoptive families name, and try to rebuild his life with people who loved him. 

He seemed like such a nice kid - the teacher taking only his sister, then the rest of the family not stepping up must have been so hard for him.  I think he was mature enough to understand how he was slighted not once, but twice.

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, Brattinella said:

Exactly so.  At some point, with some family members, there is a final straw that breaks the camel's back.  No going back to fix it, and no regrets.

I wish so much that more people understood this. Sometimes that is. There's a final straw or enough crap that happens that there is no fixing the relationship. And that's not a bad thing. Some people don't deserve to be forgiven. Sometimes its better for them not to make up. It can be better to break off and never see each other again. But so many people don't understand that.  'You should make up because your family' or 'if you don't your going to regret it'.  I understand it because my family and I have cut out two members of our family. Luckily not as bad as murder. Mostly lying and stealing from us and other family members. My dad, brother and I wanted to do it sooner but got the whole family should forgive, make up, if they die you'll regret wasting time from so many relatives. That was crap we had to keep over looking their lies and stealing, until finally each one went too far. They didn't give a crap who they hurt. They weren't sorry for what they did only that they weren't excused or able to steal from us anymore. It was better to just cut them out. And honestly it was great. Finally not having to keep your wallets and purse close when either one visited or check and see if anything went missing after they left. One passed away and no I felt no regrets about not seeing her in almost two decades. She chose to steal from family. She chose to never apologize, make up for it and stop stealing. 

[geekgirl921]

22 hours ago, sskrill said:

Collier Boyle - I feel really bad for him but I think he really needs to move on.  The father is a lying asshole - Collier clearly knows this.  I realize he's your father but he doesn't care about you at all - he proved that when he returned your letter.  The only reason he let you back into his life was because he needs you in his breast pocket for the probation board.

I've never been through something this awful but I just can't understand why he can't walk away from his father.

Also, I think its awful that none of the family took the 2 kids in, and instead separated them - and also not maintaining the sibling relationship. 

Collier really got a raw deal in all this.  I really wish he could find a way to feel whole.

It actually seemed like he has moved on. It seemed to me that if his dad had been honest and fully admitted to what he did, Collier would have been willing to have some sort of relationship with him. The fact that dad is trying to claim some sort of self defense angle and also claim that he pushed her and she hit her head instead of what actually happened was the last straw. 

[hoosiermom]

Well, the “Thanksgiving” stories they had on ID tonight were a crap fest of old stories renamed. Too bad when you can’t depend on ID to make your Thanksgiving better. SMH.

[kathyk24]

Did anyone see the latest episode of Shattered? I was so annoyed with the pastor who claimed that Jessica's death was the work of the Devil? God gives us free will pastor. I can't wait to see the ID special on John Wayne Gacy.

[tobeannounced]

3 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

Did anyone see the latest episode of Shattered? I was so annoyed with the pastor who claimed that Jessica's death was the work of the Devil? God gives us free will pastor. I can't wait to see the ID special on John Wayne Gacy.

That guy was so weird. He just didn't seem genuine at all. Or he's a total bozo. "Oh, we just loved reading our scriptures and singing hymns and taking selfies, and then, OMG, he raped and murdered a woman. I hate when Satan makes people do that. But he's an awesome dude, and I can't wait till he gets out of prison so we can worship together like the old days."

[Brattinella]

That skateboard dude was some kind of sicko.  He brought it on himself by viewing snuff films and torture and rape films.  He was a horrible person.  I don't care HOW close you are to someone, if you see them veering THAT far off the normal path, you must say something!  By staying silent, he condoned it.

[SunnyBeBe]

I have a tough time watching those spouses who describe horrific abuse at the hands of their husbands, kids and pets abused too, and then when the police knock on the door and have an arrest warrant, they CAN'T BELIEVE IT.  Really?  If I was in a relationship with a horribly abusive and threatening person, who had beaten, choked and threatened to kill me and the kids, I don't think I'd be too surprised that he was capable of murder.  What's wrong with these people?  It really angers me.  On one of these ID shows, the mother who had WITNESSED her husband go climb into the bed of her teenage daughter, later allows her daughter's friend over and they both sleep in the living room where husband has access to them!  What kind of mother was she?  She kept she saying she felt guilty, after it was discovered her husband had murdered a family of 3 (tried to murder a 4th, after raping her, but, she survived and identified him).  So, I get why she feels guilty, but, not why she's so surprised. 

[walnutqueen]

9 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

Did anyone see the latest episode of Shattered? I was so annoyed with the pastor who claimed that Jessica's death was the work of the Devil? God gives us free will pastor. I can't wait to see the ID special on John Wayne Gacy.

 

6 hours ago, tobeannounced said:

That guy was so weird. He just didn't seem genuine at all. Or he's a total bozo. "Oh, we just loved reading our scriptures and singing hymns and taking selfies, and then, OMG, he raped and murdered a woman. I hate when Satan makes people do that. But he's an awesome dude, and I can't wait till he gets out of prison so we can worship together like the old days."

Yeah, no - I am not buying the "it was Satan, not the perp" BS the "pastor" was trying to sell.  Also, he showed so much compassion and so many tears for his murderous friend, but did he even show an iota of emotion for the innocent victim? I might have missed it in my state of outrage ...

[Fable]

8 hours ago, tobeannounced said:

That guy was so weird. He just didn't seem genuine at all. Or he's a total bozo. "Oh, we just loved reading our scriptures and singing hymns and taking selfies, and then, OMG, he raped and murdered a woman. I hate when Satan makes people do that. But he's an awesome dude, and I can't wait till he gets out of prison so we can worship together like the old days."

He really did seem to have a disturbingly unhealthy attachment to "Gator."  He mentioned a wife, but I didn't notice a ring, so I wondered if even his wife eventually thought he was too delusional to deal with.  

[applecrisp]

22 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

 

Yeah, no - I am not buying the "it was Satan, not the perp" BS the "pastor" was trying to sell.  Also, he showed so much compassion and so many tears for his murderous friend, but did he even show an iota of emotion for the innocent victim? I might have missed it in my state of outrage ...

I had the same reaction. That minister made me mad, my anxiety was increasing watching him go on and on. I get the ministeries in prison. But Dead Man walking, that whole thing puzzles me. Unless you think they are innocent. I feel time would be better spent on people in need who did not murder anyone. It is misplaced compassion especially when they have advantages like this skateboard guy.

  I am against the death penalty also- but understand when a family member wants it because I probably would too. Where do we draw the line? The skateboarder was a creep and I don't think he needs to be out walking among us as Candice De Long says.

[druzy]

Here's the Forensic Files episode of the murder of Noreen Boyle. It includes information that wasn't in the Murder in Mansfield episode.

 

Interesting article

Image included in the above article. The article doesn't explain the specifics of the adoption.

[smittykins]

Thanks for linking to that blog, @druzy...I think. :)

#theregoesmynight

[Annber03]

On 11/23/2018 at 3:51 AM, kathyk24 said:

Did anyone see the latest episode of Shattered? I was so annoyed with the pastor who claimed that Jessica's death was the work of the Devil? God gives us free will pastor. 

Yeah, on the one hand, I think the moment when he was talking about what Jesus would do if he were confronted with that killer was actually rather powerful-I have seen people, including a victim's family members and/or the victim themselves, show remarkable levels of forgiveness after a violent crime, and I do find that admirable, because that would not be an easy thing to do, for obvious reasons. And I think somebody as religious as this guy trying to put his own judgment aside and live by his teachings is a good thing in and of itself. 

But I also fully agree that his religious fervor definitely felt rather...intense, for sure, and while I can understand him wanting to live by what Jesus taught and forgive, I also disagree with some of his conclusions about this being the work of "the devil". And I found his attitude towards some of the darker movies and such the guy watched weird, too. Watching dark movies in and of itself isn't a sign that you're going to be a dangerous person. This guy had plenty of other warning signs he was giving off, his taste in movies would've been about the least of my concerns about him, really. 

And I don't blame Jessica's friend one bit for not forgiving her killer. Like I said above, I admire those who can do that, but I also completely understand those who can't. 

Quote

I can't wait to see the ID special on John Wayne Gacy.

I'm curious about that, too. I also saw there'll be a special on the Susan Powell case coming up in a few weeks. That's one of those cases that's stuck with me because of how utterly tragic and horrifying it is. 

[atlantaloves]

Oh yeah, i love the Powell case as well. I am such a sicko...but that Murder in mansfield case was so so so horrible. 

[Mannahatta]

On 11/23/2018 at 2:33 PM, walnutqueen said:

 

Yeah, no - I am not buying the "it was Satan, not the perp" BS the "pastor" was trying to sell.  Also, he showed so much compassion and so many tears for his murderous friend, but did he even show an iota of emotion for the innocent victim? I might have missed it in my state of outrage ...

So true....Something was very off about that pastor. Only a narcissist would take down a poster of a missing person so they could "remember to pray for her" later on. Buddy, that's not why that poster was placed there. He must have thought his prayers were extra, extra special.