S01.E23: Fast Enough

[GHScorpiosRule]

Looking at all these posts I realise I watched the episode wrong. i thought that Barry had no intention of saving his mom, he just wanted to see her again, and say goodbye. That's why he was already crying. The future Flash when he shook his head, was not telling Barry not to save her, he was telling Barry not yet. So Barry waited, knowing what was happening, and then went to say goodbye. (And maybe plant some evidence to save his Dad at a later time).

So I was surprised to see the consensus here that Barry did intend to save her from the beginning. Interesting.

 

 

Now that you mention it, romantic idiot, I think you're right. It did look like a wait...because Flash turned around and closed that door.  Hmmm....

[Chicago Redshirt]

Okay, so am I to understand from all the complaints that a majority of people here would have rather seen Barry be offered the chance to time travel back to save his mom, hear about the danger, say "Nope, never mind" and the episode ends?

The episode wouldn't have to just end. I would want a Barry mature and intelligent enough to weigh the odds of what might happen if he does save his mom, to wonder why RF is proposing this as a possible solution, to at least wonder if he's being played by RF, and then make the gut-wrenching decision to not risk 7 billion lives to save one. There's plenty of room for drama as various people take various sides, make various points. That would have required the ensemble cast to be more skeptical about all this than they were.

 

You could still have RF break free, fight Barry, Eddie shoot himself in an attempt to bring RF down, have an unstable wormhole form that Barry tries to deal with. While going through the unstable wormhole, you could have Barry have the same glimpses of the possible pasts/futures that he did.

 

The way the show was, basically was like if the Original Star Trek episode "City on the Edge of Forever" ended with Kirk strongly considering hanging out in 1940s America having kids with Edith Keeler.

 

So basically for some people the show is only enjoyable when Barry is heroic and does all the right things (as defined by the viewers)? He's not allowed to be selfish, make mistakes, and then realize what he's done?

 

OK then.

 

There's different levels of selfish. I'm not going to complain too much when Barry swipes Capt. Singh's Big Belly Burger, even though that is a douchey maneuver. Heck, I can even excuse him ignoring the notion of there being unknowable ramifications to saving Nora.

But when you're talking the sort of foolish and selfish thing where literally all of Earth is physically at risk, that's way over the line.

 

Here's a question: why couldn't Barry just bring his critically-injured mom into the future and whisk her to a hospital here?  One dead woman wouldn't change anything, and now that she's alive (hopefully) they can bring up some bullshit amnesia story.  Barry's dad obviously didn't kill her so he gets a new trial, and given the 'mistakes' already made in his case, he's out by lunchtime. And it would have taken Barry less time than crying over his mom and endangering the world.  I thought it was a pretty touching scene to be honest, but possibly unnecessary.

I think someone already addressed this, but having Nora disappear from 14-15 years ago does not necessarily prove that Henry Allen didn't kill her. People have been tried and convicted of murder before without a body to prove it. And if basically Barry says "Mom was here, and then there were these strange speedy things going on," everyone will just think Henry primed the kid to lie, or that Barry chose to believe a delusion rather than the straightforward notion that his dad was a killer, similar to the current timeline.

[bluebonnet]

Looking at all these posts I realise I watched the episode wrong. i thought that Barry had no intention of saving his mom, he just wanted to see her again, and say goodbye. That's why he was already crying. The future Flash when he shook his head, was not telling Barry not to save her, he was telling Barry not yet. So Barry waited, knowing what was happening, and then went to say goodbye. (And maybe plant some evidence to save his Dad at a later time).

So I was surprised to see the consensus here that Barry did intend to save her from the beginning. Interesting.

I think it could be read either way.  I prefer the other version, though, because with this version, Barry decided that the risk of destroying the world was worth it only so he can kiss mommy goodbye.  It's just so much worse.  

[Sakura12]

Considering Barry spent the whole episode saying "But I can save mom!" I don't see how we couldn't get that is what he meant to do. 

 

If it was just to say goodbye, that makes it even worse. He was willing to risk destroying the entire planet just so he could say goodbye to his mother? That would've been a real selfish move. Again, 1 person is not worth 7 billion. Henry Allen knew that and he didn't even know that the world could have been destroyed. 

 

For those who keep saying that Barry saying no, means the episode would've ended. I gave other ways in a previous post for the time travel to happen without being Barry's selfish decision. Barry could've made the mature decision and Wells could've escaped and forced Barry to follow him into the time force. Wells is the bad guy, make him make the dick moves. 

Edited May 20, 2015 by Sakura12

[apinknightmare]

Looking at all these posts I realise I watched the episode wrong. i thought that Barry had no intention of saving his mom, he just wanted to see her again, and say goodbye. That's why he was already crying. The future Flash when he shook his head, was not telling Barry not to save her, he was telling Barry not yet. So Barry waited, knowing what was happening, and then went to say goodbye. (And maybe plant some evidence to save his Dad at a later time).

So I was surprised to see the consensus here that Barry did intend to save her from the beginning. Interesting.

 

I certainly hope he went intending to save his mother. That's risky/stupid enough, IMO. If he went just to say goodbye? Barry, we need to have a talk. 

[Lady Calypso]

I read that all as he did mean to go save his mom. He knew the risks and he was confused whether he should, but he ultimately chose to do so. But then he got there and his future self was shaking his head and I think part of him just froze. I rewatched it and I do think it was his future self that convinced him not to move because he was supposed to go right after young Barry was whisked away, but then he heard his mother screaming and Eobard standing over her and that's when the tears started and he shut the door. I think he knew that he couldn't do it anyway, and if future Barry was telling him not to that maybe he shouldn't. It's not like he had a long time to think about it and it did go by quickly, so it's only if Barry tells us onscreen the reason why he didnt that we'll know for sure. Maybe it was seeing his dad that also got him to look back on what he told him about changing the past. 

 

Either way, I think him going back was him actually wanting to save his mom but then realizing right on time that he couldn't do it. I get it, though. Barry's struggled with this for 15 years. He's probably dreamt of being able to save his mom so many times that when the opportunity presented itself, a major part of him wanted to do it. It's not like it was an easy decision for him anyway. He asked people what they thought and he got many conflicting responses. I think if Iris and Joe had told him not to do it, he wouldn't have. It would have crushed him inside, but I think he wouldn't have taken the chance. Barry's not a bad guy for wanting this, he really isn't. This is, and has always been, his weakness. He's always wanted to save his mom, to see her and to know what happened to her and why she died. He's gotten closure now, which is what's important. It would have been easier for him to say 'nope, not gonna risk the world' and leave it at that, because yes, that would be selfless. But then Eobard kept saying that he believed that Barry could do this, just like he has many times before, and the people around him told him that he should decide for himself and he just caved under the pressure.

 

Would it have been better if they found a different way for Barry to go into the past to see his mother's murder rather than choose to risk lives? Yeah, probably and yes, I would have preferred that as well. But, as it is, they didn't go with that but I'm not going to hate Barry for this decision because I get why he decided to choose this path. But man, I was hoping more people other than Henry and Cisco (at first) would have told him not to do it. 

[FurryFury]

All this talk of 1 person vs 7 billion reminds me (once again) about Angel's episode where Fred is dying and Angel and Spike find out there's a way to save her - which would involve a lot of people dying - like, A LOT. Unlike Barry, both are pretty dark anti-heroes who've been shown to care about those closest to them over other people time and again. But even they realize they can't do it, even if they want to. And hell, if two vampires with rather questionable moralities could make that choice, I can't understand why one normal, well-adjusted, straight-up "heroic" guy cannot.

[saber5055]

I did get a kick out of Well's calmly drinking his Slurpee while incarcerated in the tank, and chatting up Cisco.

 

Plus he also spilled that Cisco has "magic powers" too. So there's that!

[nksarmi]

I think - in defense of Barry - there is also the fact that he knows he and RF have time travelled before without ripping apart the universe so that would lead him to believe it could work again.  I think the bigger issue was don't trust the evil villain about what the future is supposed to look like and that you can change the past and it will be okay dokey.

 

I'm not sure I get how one occurrence of time travel can cause a wormhole but another doesn't. I have to go with Eddie killing himself and erasing RF from the timeline was too big of a change and the time lords/Rip Hunter are going to show up and fix this shit.

[Sakura12]

I hope it's the Future Team Legends that show up on the Flash to fix what Barry did. Then they tell him that he and Oliver are the ones find them all and bring them together. 

[Xenith22]

There's different levels of selfish. I'm not going to complain too much when Barry swipes Capt. Singh's Big Belly Burger, even though that is a douchey maneuver. Heck, I can even excuse him ignoring the notion of there being unknowable ramifications to saving Nora.

But when you're talking the sort of foolish and selfish thing where literally all of Earth is physically at risk, that's way over the line.

Yeah...I guess I should not have been surprised at his choice. After all, Barry just blew off saving everone in Starling City from a deadly virus in order to have his first conversation with Thawne in this episode...

So if a conversation with a trapped foe was more important than thousands of lives potentially lost, then it makes sense that his mother would be more important than risking billions lost...

Edited May 20, 2015 by Xenith22

[Xantar]

People keep talking as if 1 vs 7 billion was a sure thing. But it wasn't. I don't think it was even a risk. Eobard Thawne thought this through, and he doesn't want to blow up the world any more than Barry does. If you think Barry shouldn't trust his motives, that's fine. But I really think casting Barry as selfish because he doesn't do the math is way too simplistic.

[bluebonnet]

People keep talking as if 1 vs 7 billion was a sure thing. But it wasn't. I don't think it was even a risk. Eobard Thawne thought this through, and he doesn't want to blow up the world any more than Barry does. If you think Barry shouldn't trust his motives, that's fine. But I really think casting Barry as selfish because he doesn't do the math is way too simplistic.

The problem is that Team Flash did do the math and the math told them that it was reckless and dangerous to go talk to mommy.  

[Sakura12]

Stein said it could cause a Global Catastrophe. Wells may not have wanted to destroy the world but he also doesn't care if a bunch of people die in the process of him getting what he wants. He's a villain I expect that from him. Barry's the hero, I expect him to save people not risk their deaths so he can get what he wants. 

 

As I said I get this is comic book show. I'll go along with it but I'm still going to think Barry made the selfish decision to risk the lives of many to save one. 

Edited May 20, 2015 by Sakura12

[Chicago Redshirt]

I think - in defense of Barry - there is also the fact that he knows he and RF have time travelled before without ripping apart the universe so that would lead him to believe it could work again.  I think the bigger issue was don't trust the evil villain about what the future is supposed to look like and that you can change the past and it will be okay dokey.

 

I'm not sure I get how one occurrence of time travel can cause a wormhole but another doesn't. I have to go with Eddie killing himself and erasing RF from the timeline was too big of a change and the time lords/Rip Hunter are going to show up and fix this shit.

 

Just as there are different ways to travel in space, there are presumably different ways to travel through time. Barry managed one independent of any gadgetry a couple episodes back. Wells recreated a time sphere to help him get back to where he once belonged. (Get back, Eobard!). We are told explicitly that Barry had 1 minute 52 seconds to perform his task of saving Nora and returning to the present, and that if he failed that it could have these catastrophic consequences. I assume the singularity is a function of no-more-RF means a great disturbance in the Speed Force. 

 

People keep talking as if 1 vs 7 billion was a sure thing. But it wasn't. I don't think it was even a risk. Eobard Thawne thought this through, and he doesn't want to blow up the world any more than Barry does. If you think Barry shouldn't trust his motives, that's fine. But I really think casting Barry as selfish because he doesn't do the math is way too simplistic.

 

It was obviously presented as a risk. We were told it was a risk that Professor Stein discovered but RF failed to disclose. When called on it, RF was like, "Yeah, that's a risk, but I BELIEVE IN YOU, BARRY!"

 

Given that, the math is obvious. Even if there was only a 1 in a 7 gazillion chance that it could go south, we're talking about the entire planet.

 

Yeah...I guess I should not have been surprised at his choice. After all, Barry just blew off saving everone in Starling City from a deadly virus in order to have his first conversation with Thawne in this episode...

So if a conversation with a trapped foe was more important than thousands of lives potentially lost, then it makes sense that his mother would be more important than risking billions lost...

 

I will fanwank that it was a combo "I want to talk to Wells, and also, I trust Ollie's got this." 

 

It's very curious that Flash was like 1,000 times more effective at stopping bad guys on Arrow than he has been on his regular show. Because plot.

[Xantar]

The problem is that Team Flash did do the math and the math told them that it was reckless and dangerous to go talk to mommy.  

 

How so? By what logic? By what existing laws of math and science? They don't exist in this world because the science of this show doesn't make any sense. Trying to apply our logic to it doesn't work. We have to just take the show on its own terms.

 

Stein said it could cause a Global Catastrophe. Wells may not have wanted to destroy the world but he also doesn't care if a bunch of people die in the process of him getting what he wants. He's a villain I expect that from him. Barry's the hero, I expect him to save people not risk their deaths. 

 

Yes, Thawne doesn't care if a bunch of people die, but he does care if the whole world is destroyed by a black hole. Because he lives on this world too. And he isn't reckless. Every single time he's said that Barry can do something, it's turned out to be true. Run fast enough to punch out an invulnerable metal monster? Done. Create tornadoes? Done. Vibrate himself in order to phase through matter? Done (never mind that it doesn't make any sense). 

Edited May 20, 2015 by Xantar

[bluebonnet]

How so? By what logic? By what existing laws of math and science? They don't exist in this world because the science of this show doesn't make any sense. Trying to apply our logic to it doesn't work. We have to just take the show on its own terms.

 

I'm not sure I get what you are talking about.  None of this 'science' is logical.  I take comic book logic for what it is.  But I also don't pretend something different happened than what was shown.  In the episode, Team Flash did the math and ran the simulations and determined that this was a wildly dangerous thing to do, and Barry did it anyway.  That's what actually happened.  

[Xantar]

Ok, that's fair enough. I went a little overboard in my response. But I think also think that if Thawne says 1 minute 58 seconds will keep them safe and that if he thinks his plan will work, then we can take him at his word. On the science, he's always been right, and if anything he's the least reckless character on the show.

[Actionmage]

So basically for some people the show is only enjoyable when Barry is heroic and does all the right things (as defined by the viewers)? He's not allowed to be selfish, make mistakes, and then realize what he's done?

 

 

As others have covered the first two sections of this quite ably, there is the third part: As far as we have been shown, on-screen, Barry hasn't realized the extent of his decision to see Nora. Granted, he was punching Eobard's lights out as soon as he came back and was a bit busy trying to save everyone at the end. Present!Barry never had a moment when he, alone, decided that he shouldn't have done this; Future!Barry told him not to do it. That is not an epiphany, even if it was himself passing on the info. As far as we know, our Barry would try this again, as the collapse would/could be placed at Eddie's (absent) feet.

 

Present!Barry has not been written as a well-reasoned young man. As others have noted, Barry has been written as smart enough when the writers need him to be OG Barry, the police scientist. Otherwise, almost every dumb move post-Oliver's first trip to Central City would not have happened.  The pulverized dead horse of Barry entertaining anything from Eobard's face holes as gospel is bewildering.  That Barry comes unprepared to make a deal with a man who a) actively gives no Grodds about Barry and his identity games and b) is an unrepentant, self-styled villain? This is not the hero I either needed or wanted.

 

As to the first question posed? I love me some dumb, idiotic learning arcs, mostly as they are usually signaled in some way as dumb, idiotic learning arcs. The fun, silly stuff with civilians ( there was a flasher that Barry trenchcoated, right?) and the Ferris Air airstrip field trips were good times. But...

 

But? TPTB had Barry poll the very people who could be negatively affected, successful trip or not, what he should do.  They had a man who created the very cell he was put into not escape it at will. They had the hero of their show endanger the planet. Regardless of his reasons or the validity of those reasons, they had Barry doing what is traditionally the villain's job.  Not unlike having and bragging about an extrajudicial prison for metahumans.  Like telling Felicity to her face that he had to talk to a villain instead of helping save a city of innocent people.  That Barry I have no problem going for  whatever with his mom.  (It is clearly a writers' thing, imo.) 

 

I enjoyed the hell out of Caitlyn and Ronnie having a couple of minutes of peace and happiness. I also liked the 'I'll have to get you a real ring' ' It's fine.' exchange.  (Glad to see I wasn't wondering where Clarissa Stein was; Clarissa would balk at spending time with Martin, even around the young'uns at STAR Labs?)   I enjoyed that Victor Garber can have Martin Stein be so different from Jack Bristow (ALIAS), yet still radiate that comforting bedrockiness that Mr. Garber does so well. There is something about his heroic characters that just invite folks to trust him.  I chuckled that we're supposed to believe that Snart goes about his daily business in his blue parka! Oh, Show. 

 

I am also glad that Joe survived this season. ::immediately knocks wood and head to cya:: I hope that Joe can throttle back on the personal life stuff of Barry and Iris and find someone closer to his age to be concerned over.  We even saw two potential dates.

 

I am still hopeful and excited about this show going into the next season. This break is going to seem so long!

 

 

edited:

How so? By what logic? By what existing laws of math and science? They don't exist in this world because the science of this show doesn't make any sense. Trying to apply our logic to it doesn't work. We have to just take the show on its own terms.

 

This was addressed while I was posting.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Actionmage

[Xantar]

Ok, I'm changing my mind a bit. It was a mistake for the writers to have the implication that creating the wormhole and traveling back and taking too long would create a singularity that would destroy the whole world. Looking back on it from a distance and without the excitement of having just seen the episode, it looks to me like the writers wanted to put a time limit on how long Barry could stay in the past (otherwise, why wouldn't he just go back to a couple days before Nora's death, make a couple arrangements, and catch Reverse Flash in a trap?). So the writers had to put a time limit on him, and they didn't think through the implications of having that time limit be a world-destroying event. They just really wanted to have Barry go back and spend time with his mother.

 

It actually would have been fine if there had been no discussion of a singularity at all, I think. They could have technobabbled some other reason for the time limit ("There's only enough energy to keep you there for 1:58 and then you'll be forced to come back"). And then when Eddie shoots himself, they could just start showing stuff blowing up while various characters say, "Uh-oh. We just really messed with time. We have no idea how this is going to affect things."

 

So yeah. I'm going to say that was a mistake, and I'm not going to defend it any more. Whether that affects your enjoyment of the episode overall is completely individual. For me, I still really loved the finale and I can't wait until the show comes back.

[bluebonnet]

Oh yeah, I think it would have looked very different if the crew hadn't realized that doing this could likely create a singularity.  However, the next wtf thing to focus on would be them building Wells a time traveling machine and also letting him out of his cage.  I still don't get the point of that other than to have Barry fight Wells and nearly lose so that Eddie could then come in the hero.  

 

Likely Eddie shooting himself blew things up because it created a crazy paradox, but at least Eddie didn't intentionally and knowingly destroy the world.  Barry did.  That's the big annoying factor there. 

 

It's really lucky of them that they cast one of the most enjoyable actors to play Flash.  This should could be a complete disaster without him.  I almost always love watching it, and I'm still eager to watch season 2, even though the flaws and ridiculous illogical inconsistencies are mind-numbing.  I'm just glad the finale was him choosing to potentially destroy the world instead of losing to Captain Cold again because that's a plot that I can't take again.  Another Cap Cold loss would have been a deal breaker, and giving up Arrow for being so bad is already hard enough.  I seem to need comic book shows in my weekly tv diet now.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

I hate to keep circling around on this, but the plan as presented was incredibly risky and stupid on its face and as executed.

 

Let's break it down a little further.

 

Part one of the plan: Barry must run at Mach 2. Mach 2 is about 1,522 MPH. We are told that this is faster than he has ever done before. I think that the fastest we've seen Barry go would be in the area of 1,000-1,200 mph. So there's no guarantee that Barry will be able to get to Mach 2. Barry attempts no practice runs that we see to test if he can even get up to Mach 2, or sustain that speed. 

 

Part two of the plan: The particle accelerator will be turned on with 1 hydrogen particle being accelerated. Remember the last time when the particle accelerator was turned on and there was badness, all sorts of unpredictable energies released and dozens of metahumans created? OK, RF says that he's fixed it so that it is going to work like it was originally designed. I guess we can trust the guy who's been lying to us for months but now openly admits that he's killed numerous people and wants to kill Barry and hates everything he stands for. 

 

Part three of the plan: Barry will collide with the accelerated particle while going at Mach 2. If he hits it at the wrong speed, he will die. Again, let's discount the possibility that RF wants Barry to simply go on a suicide mission.

 

Part four of the plan: a stable wormhole will then be created that Barry can see bits of possible past and future events. Barry has to concentrate and find the right point in space-time that he wants -- the moment when RF is trying to kill his mom. So he is going to have to depend on some new agey, metaphysic-y stuff to get him where he wants to go.

 

Part five of the plan: He has to actually stop the RF. The guy who has been kicking his ass in the present, pretty much non-stop, to the point he had to engage in a three-on-one fight against him that Barry STILL almost lost. Remember -- Present Barry doesn't know if the Flash he saw as a child is Present Barry, Future Barry, Alternate Universe Barry or what. In fact, what he does know is that the Flash he saw in the past was not able to save his mother. I guess he can naively think "This time will be different" based on nothing.

 

Part six of the plan: He has to complete his task within 1 minute and 52 seconds and return to the present or else a singularity might swallow the Earth whole. 

 

And that's all banking that RF is on the straight and narrow, and that he hasn't made any scientific mistakes.

 

We know he very nearly made one, because Cisco caught it and brought it to RF's attention that there was the possibility that part of the Time Sphere would melt. If we take RF at face value, he did not anticipate that. And even though he came up with a solution in 2 seconds, there's a risk that there are other things that RF simply failed to understand or calculate.

 

We also know that RF didn't fully disclose the risks to the Flash Mob. His explaining to Barry as to how to do various speedster tricks is a whole different thing because Wells has presumably both done them before and been witness to Flash doing them.

 

The way this form of time travel was presented, it seemed to be the first time anyone was attempting it. 

 

ETA: Part seven of the plan: While Barry is in the past, free RF from confinement because reasons and let him get in a Time Sphere because reasons. Hey, he swears all he wants to do is go back to his time, not go to some other time and wreak havoc, or kill the Flash Mob or the Flash, or engage in any of the murders that he so enjoys and that he has good reasons for.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Chicago Redshirt

[benteen]

I'll say what I said more or less on another board...

 

Barry proved in this episode that he was worse than Thawne.  Thawne was an evil sociopath.  I would expect him to risk the world to get what he wants.  But Barry is supposed to be the reverse of him.  He's supposed to be a hero.  When he decided that he had the right to risk the destruction of THE ENTIRE WORLD (Stein hinted it might not even stop there afterwards!) because of his unimportant mommy issues, he became just as bad as Thawne.  I would argue that he became worse because he should have known better.

 

This wasn't an example of a good guy making a mistake.  Barry showed a horrifying disregard for human life when he decided to play Russian Roulette with the lives of seven billion people.  He and his Kool-Aid drinking enablers KNEW that there was a chance that absolute destruction as a result of traveling through time and they STILL went through with it.  Even though he knew thing would get bad if he spent too much time in the past.  How can you still be considered a hero after risking the lives of an entire planet?

 

Barry may think he's a hero but the finale proved he is anything but one.  He and his enablers were directly responsible for what happened at the end of that episode.  In the finale, Barry Allen became the villain of this story.

[KirkB]

Okay, I think I understand the issue people are having now, and I agree it was rather foolish of the writers to start out the plot by saying if you do this you could destroy the world, Barry. It would have been better if Barry decided he needed to do it, even with Henry and others telling him not to, because it's been a dream of his since childhood and he finally has the power to do it. The potential risks to the timeline could be mentioned but not in great detail since Thawne is the only one who really understands it. Barry goes back, fully prepared to save his mom, only to have his future self stop him and tell him he already tried and it didn't end well so he decides not to. Everything else proceeds the same from there. Barry returns, Thawne is about to kill him, Eddie kills himself, and wiping out Thawne out of the blue screws up the wormhole and turns it into a singularity, which Barry has to stop. 

[Sakura12]

I wouldn't go as far as calling Barry the villain. I would call him a selfish idiot. Especially since he just learned that trusting the bad guy is the wrong decision with Captain Cold. So he does it again with the lives of billions at stake. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I understand people's frustrations with Barry going forward with the plan to go back and save his mom, despite all the risk of doing so.  Yes, if looked at under a harsh critical light, it does make Barry look selfish and unworthy of being considered a hero.

 

But I choose to accept the fact that TPTB wanted a big huge blowout to end S1, and they decided to do the things they did to get there.  Was it hard and difficult to understand and be completely OK with, as a viewer?  Did it make a whole lot of sense??  Nope.  But it sure did make for a "wow!" finish to an overall great first season of a very good show.

 

Sometimes, especially with shows like this, real reality needs to take a backseat for (at least) an hour.  To each their own, but imo, suspension of reality/belief is kind of a necessity for sci-fi based shows.

[Racj82]

Well next season the showrunners should do everything that only makes logical sense to fans. Don't have people who are flawed and make bad decisions but are good people. Just flawed and ultimately human like everyone else. If have a moment that can create the best dramatic tension, do not do that. Just have Flash make the right decision every time or do the things that would make every episode done by at least the second commercial break. People will  be happier then. So much happier. Look at it like you are making a documentary on super heroes instead of a tv show that needs to have surprises, cliffhangers, ad breaks, tension and many other storytelling devices.

 

The only thing I would change for the better is have Barry accidentally discover what he can do involving time travel (like he did earlier this season) and see that he needs to course correct to save the world on his own. Having other people tell him this while still having him go through with it causes problems as well as trusting his enemy. It's by no means something I'm mad about/feel the need to rant about. But, it's a decision that was bound to piss people off. Sometimes there a moments when heroes need to make the difficult decisions in order to deal with a bigger issue. In these case, the difficult decision was made in order to fix something small and personal. I totally get why Barry did it and I'm not going to insult the character for said decision. It's just something they have to be wary of in the future.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Racj82

[Lady Calypso]

Yeah, I disagree that he's become the villain because of this act. Honestly, this was more of the writers going for the most dramatic finale possible, with Barry asking people their opinions, having conflicted views, insert a dangerous element and boom, that's half an hour of the episode written already. They definitely didn't think of the consequences of having Barry still choose to go back to the past with the danger looming. 

 

And honestly? I don't think Barry's issues regarding his mom are unimportant. Clearly they've been important to Barry, as it has affected his job, his family, and his entire life. I do get that it's unimportant in terms of the world's safety. I absolutely get that and I just think the writers went 'oh, what would make for a dramatic finale? Ooo, worm holes and singularities! And an epic fight and a sacrifice! AND TIME TRAVEL! How do we get Barry to time travel?'. And I think Barry did the right thing in stopping the black hole because I think he knows this is his fault. Obviously there's no other choice at this point, but the fact that he went in as soon as he saw what was happening, no questions asked, was a good start to redeeming his act for this episode.

 

I know, Barry's actions are his own and all and I hold him accountable for doing this. But I also see his point of view of why he wanted to go back, his circle of friends and family kind of suck (his dad is the only smart one, apparently....I think Barry's been hanging out with Joe too much), Eobard consistently stated how he trusts Barry and seeing how much he's helped him, I can see why he might believe that, and he's weak and naive and gullible. And Iris told him to think about himself for once, which....ok then. I'm just thinking the writers didn't think of the consequences of the finale at all. I don't think Barry would choose this willingly if it wasn't the finale. He's been a gullible idiot many times, but the one thing he hasn't been is selfish. 

 

On another note, the parallels of Henry looking out the window at the black hole to Barry in the pilot/Arrow backdoor episode with Barry looking out at the particle accelerator? Uncanny. Excellent use of parallelism there. 

[tennisgurl]

I need to think harder about my thoughts on this episode, but I do have two big things to get out of the way:

 

I know nothing about the science of what happens on this show, so I tend to just go with it. That being said, the writers clearly did not think of all the implications of this time travel issue that they should have. Have we heard from the creators? What did they have to say? 

 

There needs to be an episode named Run Barry Run. It just needs to happen. 

[blugirlami21]

I'm a bit surprised by the level of anger that Barry is receiving for wanting to save his Mom from being murdered, to prevent his Father from going to jail for the rest of his life, for wanting to have his family be whole again.  Was it a selfish decision?  Maybe but I think that depends on what you expect from Barry as a man and as a hero.  I see Barry as being kind of sheltered and naive.  He tends to believe the best of people maybe when he shouldn't.  He makes stupid mistakes but that has been a consistent facet of his character.  Another constant is the desire to have his family be how it was before the reverse flash tore it apart.  I never expected his answer to be different.  I also think that this is something that Barry had to do for himself to realize that his mother's death was meant to be.  Nothing anyone said was going to make him realize that until he experienced for himself.

 

I was surprised that his two dads had such differing opinions as to whether Barry should change the past or not.  I loved all of his scenes with his Joe and Henry and I really loved when he admitted that he would be losing a parent and when he called Joe Dad.  I sometimes felt like Barry didn't want to acknowledge that fact that Joe has been his father for the last 15 years.  Possibly because he felt it was a betrayal to his biological father.  

 

I will say that the idea that they were going to let Eobard go back to his time was a head scratcher for me.  What's to stop him from doing the same thing all over again?  They had no way of knowing what he would do when he got there.  

 

The world possibly ending was more of upping the ante than anything else and I didn't honestly expect it to happen considering what kind of show this is.  I just personally don't have moral dilemmas with light shows like this, ymmv.

 

I also don't think that Eddie would have even thought of getting a vasectomy to solve the problem of Eobard Thawne.  Eddie wanted to be remembered as a hero.  He wanted his life/death to mean something in the future and I think he thought this was the best thing to do at that moment in time.  Also vasectomy's are not a hundred percent foolproof.  I am disappointed that Eobard didn't safeguard Eddie a little better.  He is your ancestor, he would have done better to get Eddie on his side to ensure that he wouldn't do exactly what he did and erase yourself in the process.

Edited May 21, 2015 by blugirlami21

[FiveByFive]

This wasn't an example of a good guy making a mistake.  Barry showed a horrifying disregard for human life when he decided to play Russian Roulette with the lives of seven billion people.

I've been processing my thoughts about the episode and the ENTIRE TIME I kept screaming at the television (in my mind, I'm not crazy) "Barry! Why would you want to possibly destroy the entire world just to save your mother? Everything will change? People could be dead as a result of you never having saved them? You don't know what could happen!" and then, "Why are all of you so damn supportive of this? Don't you know that time travel never works out for the better?"

 

First of all .... I went back and watched twice. 

 

When Barry traveled back in time, the Barry that was already there that he witnessed as a child told Barry NOT to intervene. He clearly held up his hand, to say stop and shook his head, "No." Barry listened and didn't try to save his mother. He did however say goodbye to her.

 

So that is why he didn't do it. I think when you, tells you not to do something you probably listen. 

 

Then I thought about it ... him traveling back would have been him fixing things. 

 

• Little Original Barry grows up with Mom and Dad.
• Adult Original Barry becomes an enemy of Eobard Thawne.
• Eobard goes back in time and tries to kill Little Original Barry. 
• Adult Original Barry tries to stop him but Eobard kills Little Original Barry's Mother.
• Little Original Barry becomes Little Alternate Barry.
• Eobard gets stuck back in time.

 

BOOM! A new timeline is created!

 

• Little Alternate Barry grows up without a Mother because Adult Original Barry saved him but not his mother.
• Alternate Barry becomes the Flash.
• Eobard gets into Alternate Barry's life and yadda, yadda, yadda ...
• Alternate Barry travels back in time to stop Eobard from killing his mother and runs into Original Barry saving Alternate Barry.
• Alternate Barry doesn't save their mother because Original Barry says not to.

 

And maybe, also, in that second he realizes that although this isn't the way it's supposed to be it's the best way.

 

What I'm getting at here is, everything that we've seen this season and in Barry's life was not supposed to happen. We're seeing the results of what happened with Eobard's original time travel plot. The whole thing is an alternate timeline.

 

So in that context, I can understand Barry wanting to put things "right" but choosing not to because it could be very destructive to the life he has built.  The original Barry didn't have himself to say, "No, don't do it." 

 

Also for all we know this could be some sort of weird loop. Original Barry knew not to let Barry save his mother because when Original Barry did it, another Original Barry told him not to save his mother. Why? Because whatever happened after is the way things are actually supposed to be. 

 

Woo this hurt my head. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by FiveByFive

[Xenith22]

Part six of the plan: He has to complete his task within 1 minute and 52 seconds and return to the present or else a singularity might swallow the Earth whole.

Speaking of that time limit...it's a major pet peeve of mine when TV shows set them and then ignore them.   It was over a full 3 minutes from the time that Barry was deposited in the past to the moment the screen went black while he was still kneeling and crying over his dead mother.    I mean on the one hand I get that it's time travel...so time in the past in theory does not have to be equal to time passed in the present...but then would that also not mean that you could arrive back in the present almost instantaneously rendering any kind of time limit irrelevant?  Or else there is an unknown variable to exactly how long the trip would take in real time and so it was an even bigger gamble than they bothered to let on.

 

On top of that back in the present the monitor showed 58 seconds remaining...and then it was over a minute later (no slowmo or scene cuts) when the Flash emerged from the portal and yet there was some how 20 seconds remaining on the doomsday clock.  COME ON!  Find out how long a scene takes and make that your limit or cut your scene to fit the time established... We are just talking minutes here it should not have been that hard to get it right.

 

 

Part one of the plan: Barry must run at Mach 2. Mach 2 is about 1,522 MPH. We are told that this is faster than he has ever done before. I think that the fastest we've seen Barry go would be in the area of 1,000-1,200 mph. So there's no guarantee that Barry will be able to get to Mach 2. Barry attempts no practice runs that we see to test if he can even get up to Mach 2, or sustain that speed.

Barry already broke thru the time barrier on his own with no mechanical aid?  So clearly he was capable of running MUCH faster than Mach 2 (which humans have done before without time traveling as a result) so yeah since the moment that happened the argument of not fast enough has never made the slightest bit of sense.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Xenith22

[phoenics]

Geez when Superman turned back time, he got nothing but props from fandom, lol.

I don't think this will be the end of this story - I think Barry will have to face some kind of repercussions on this - or at the very least, he won't mess with time travel intentionally again. In the comics, he messes with time in two storylines - one caused Crisis and the other caused Flashpoint. It's because of Barry that we have that crappy new 52. Or, the comic writers made it all Barry's fault.

Just about EVERY bad decision that Barry makes in comic canon stems from his desire to go back to save his mom - literally that causes a chain reaction that led to Crisis and Flashpoint.

I don't know if that's what the writers intend here, but I think the reason why we see Future!Flash stop Present!Barry from saving Past!Nora is because Future!Flash knows that it leads to something catastrophic because he already had to fix it.

I have a feeling the Legends of Tomorrow stuff will get into that - and I think we're going to see some alternate or parallel universes or something. Something has to lead Future!Flash to stop Past!Flash from jacking ish up.

In all honesty, I'm not upset about Flash going back to try to save his mother - though I do think it was a mistake (of the writers) to set it up as a Nora or the World scenario upfront like that. In the comics, he doesn't know what it will do - so you can forgive him the error more I guess.

I still don't think he's anywhere close to RF/Thawne - I think that's an unfair comparison.

[kieyra]

I understand people's frustrations with Barry going forward with the plan to go back and save his mom, despite all the risk of doing so.  Yes, if looked at under a harsh critical light, it does make Barry look selfish and unworthy of being considered a hero.

 

But I choose to accept the fact that TPTB wanted a big huge blowout to end S1, and they decided to do the things they did to get there.  Was it hard and difficult to understand and be completely OK with, as a viewer?  Did it make a whole lot of sense??  Nope.  But it sure did make for a "wow!" finish to an overall great first season of a very good show.

 

Sometimes, especially with shows like this, real reality needs to take a backseat for (at least) an hour.  To each their own, but imo, suspension of reality/belief is kind of a necessity for sci-fi based shows.

Only speaking for myself, but my issues aren't with the fake science stuff or the writers not having a handle on their time travel canon. It's that they're screwing up the story DNA and the way the Hero's Journey works by having Barry be an ineffectual and arguably selfish dork. They throw in a lot of emotional beats that sometimes hit because the actors are pretty good (except for Robbie Amell, #sorrynotsorry), but those beats are mostly smoke and mirrors and Grant being a good crier. The underlying emotional logic/story journey is kind of busted and I think people are responding to that more so than "why didn't Eddie just get a vasectomy".

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

After seeing what happened here, and the possibilities it opened up, re: time and alternate universe travelling.... I just wonder how crazy the PTB & writers are willing to go with it.  I mean, I know that lots of changes in The Flash will make no sense when considering its in a shared DC TV universe, and if none of them change too; but with what we've been shown, nothing is set in stone any more, on this particular show.  Hell, with what we were shown and told about this first season alone, it itself was a 'paradox' made possible by one decision and action made by RF when Barry was 11.  Actually, just by going back RF full on 'paradoxed' it, because as shown, he couldn't get back to his own time after the events in 11-y/o Barry's house.

 

I guess what I'm wondering is... will the Show keep introducing new big 'paradoxes' or 'flashpoints', time travels, etc?  One each season, maybe multiple ones??   Intrigued.

[phoenics]

I really think they will - I think time travel will come up again and again. The whole Legends of Tomorrow thing is based on time travel and its effects, so... no reason to believe the Flash (where time travel is a huge thing) won't continue with this stuff - I just believe Barry will have learned some lessons and be more responsible with it.

[Trini]

Things We Saw In Barry's Speed Force Vision

 

The funniest part of the PTV recap:

Edited May 21, 2015 by Trini

[tennisgurl]

Time travel (and, I assume, its repercussions) is going to be brought up frequently in the TV DCU, especially here and in the spin off, at least that's what I am thinking. Is it possible that we are supposed to be really conflicted by Barry and friends blase response to changing the timeline? After all, Future Barry/The Flash did tell Our Barry not to go through with saving his mom. He has been set up as this uber awesome, experienced hero, so he must know what he`s talking about. Maybe in the future, Barry and the gang will have learned that meddling with time can have serious repercussions, even ones you wouldn't think of immediately. Granted, they probably should have thought of that earlier, but think about Barry`s first experience with time travel. He went back in time, and he changed everything for the better. The only downside was some awkwardness with Iris. It would, to me, make sense that Barry would only think of the good side of changing the past, not the bad. Maybe this whole thing will be a learning experience, and we will later see Barry and company make a hard choice to save a greater number of people by not changing a terrible past event, based on the mistake they made here, or will make. Something taught Future Barry not to meddle with time, after all. 

[Hobo.PassingThru]

 

Barry already broke thru the time barrier on his own with no mechanical aid?

 

[after re-reading some of this, would it be wrong to call Wells/Thawne, "Harrithawne"?]

 

That's probably a very important point to the story. Keep in mind that Wells/Thawne was shocked when Cisco told him Barry had already time traveled. Wells/ Thawne knew that Barry could probably travel through time without a device because of that Speed Force claptrap they keep talking about. So, I'm going to say that Wells/Thawne needed Barry to create the wormhole because even though Barry was constantly saying RF was faster than him somehow RF couldn't create a wormhole himself.

 

Maybe that is entirely a writing problem. Obviously, what occurred is more dramatic. But, the key point seems to be that when Wells/Thawne heard Barry busted thru time, it caught him off-guard. I am leaning towards that by changing things in that reverse episode didn't correct things as much as it radically changed the current timeline.

 

So, when Barry went to save his mom, saw Flash was already there, something else had already changed.

 

Now, please someone correct me if I am wrong. In that scene in the past, Flash zipped out the door carrying Young Barry, right? Well, he seems to run right through Barry's dad, who disappears. When Barry looks around the room to see his mother, Barry's dad is laying on his back, unconscious. Now, Barry tells his mom that his dad is going to be fine but that is never shown to be the case.

 

So, if something changed, how big was the change that resulted from 1) Barry changing time once, 2) Barry interfering with the past even though he didn't seem to do anything except spend time with his mom?

Edited May 21, 2015 by Hobo.PassingThru

[bettername2come]

Keep in mind that Wells/Thawne was shocked when Cisco told him Barry had already time traveled.

 

Wells wasn't shocked that Barry time traveled; he already knew that. He was shocked that Cisco remembered it.

[Trini]

Yes, there was a chance of a singularity, but there was also the chance that Barry would be able to right a wrong (Reverse-Flash DID mess with the timeline), and everything would be okay. He took that chance, and I'm not mad at him.

 

And we knew he was going to try anyway, right? They had been building up to this for a while. (Also, stupid promo monkeys.) But I agree with the poster that said we could have had the same events without the Flash Mob knowing that the black hole could result. On the other hand, the writers probably put that line in there to 1) not make Flash Mob look stupid for not figuring that possibility, 2) to not have the black hole come out of nowhere later, 3) to up the stakes.

[Hobo.PassingThru]

 

he already knew that. He was shocked that Cisco remembered it.

Well, yes. You're right. In theory though, Wells should know everything since he's from the (inhale) FUUTUUURRRE! You'd think that Wells knew full well that Cisco has powers and

will most likely become the superhero Vibe. (a lame character who wore breakdancing gear but who probably has impressive powers)

 

But, he also screwed up and got stuck in the past in the first place. So, I bet he didn't see himself running out of go-go juice as he fled to scene of his "Genius" crime of causing trauma to the Barry Allen. Also, that wasn't the only mistake he made, was it? Didn't he also say that his plan was to originally kill Little Barry and he failed. Then he killed Barry's mom.

[Xenith22]

Well, yes. You're right. In theory though, Wells should know everything since he's from the (inhale) FUUTUUURRRE! You'd think that Wells knew full well that Cisco has powers and...

Not necessarily.  The circumstances of the generator explosion changed.  We don't know for sure that Cisco, Caitlin, or Ronnie worked at STAR Labs in the original timeline at the time of the explosion.  Or even if they did there was still a possibility that they did not survive the explosion or did not gain powers for some reason.   Ronnie's fate especially required VERY specific circumstances to occur with Stein standing at a specific location at the correct moment.   So yeah it makes sense that Eobard would maybe not know about Cisco.

[benteen]

I like flawed characters.  TV thrives of them.  But pursuing something that could realistically cause the death of every single living person on Earth (and beyond) in order to have mommy tuck him in again?  That's an unconscionable decision that makes Barry no better than Wells.

[romantic idiot]

I thought Barry had the chance to save his mother and his father and he decided to save his father. *shrugs*. Either way, it was reckless. 

[Hobo.PassingThru]

[long post; short: none of them really, really thought about the consequences of being reckless. The saw benefits and few saw downfalls. Eobard wanted Barry to save his mother because Eobard killing Barry's mom didn't cause Flash to cease to exist. Eobard is messed up in the head!]

 

For some reason neither he or many others realize that. Barry's dad realized it, the STAR Labs/cop crew didn't think it mattered that much that things could change; that things might currently be as good as it gets (The Natural Order of Things!).

 

With the exceptions of Stein and Cisco who had reservations for very different reasons but in the end both were on board with the plan. So, no one was thinking straight. (it did make me mad every time Caitlen asked a science question. That wasn't right. She should have been providing answers.)

 

Most characters thought with their hearts more than their brains. That's understandable. Eddie professed still loving Iris; Ronnie showed up again, for good; Barry and Iris seemed to be "okay"; Joe was still proud of what Barry had accomplished in a year.

 

Somehow they may--may--have thought that the timeline Harrithawne changed into an alternative timeline actually deprived them all of a better life, better than what they had right at that moment. Given the accident at the labs, sure. Why not think that changing the past would be good for everyone? It makes sense to be more optimistic.

 

The one flaw is that when Barry did change the past before this, and yes, he did stop Cisco from getting killed; the police chief from being hospitalized, his foster dad was not kidnapped and that's all great. But, who's to say the corrected timeline was the right timeline? Who's to say it became a worse timeline where Eddie could kill himself, Barry's dad was also killed by the RF, and Eddie killing himself results in Thawne not being there but say, Eddie doesn't die? What if Eddie becomes Eobard's father instead being a great-great-great...etc.? So, who knows? But, things have changed a couple of times now. This episode being the third time time has been tampered with.

 

There's a very good chance that Barry is supposed to turn into the Flash. We know that. And, Flash was still there in the past. But, maybe the right circumstances for him becoming the Flash are actually different than what we've seen. For instacne, maybe the reactor doesn't cause the changes in him. But, does for everyone else?

Edited May 21, 2015 by Hobo.PassingThru

[quarks]

I see Barry as being kind of sheltered and naive. 

 

 

You know, I think you're right here, and maybe that's part of the problem? Not you being right - this portrayal of Barry. Because Barry probably shouldn't be this sheltered and naive - his dad is in jail, he grew up with a cop, he's in his early 20s, he's friends of a sort with Oliver Queen, he's spent the last year battling impossible things, and he works in a forensics department. Both Arrow and Flash established that Barry's been investigating murders and strange phenomena for years.  And he's shown himself to be pretty perceptive and aware in other episodes.  So this is creating a bit of a disconnect for me.

[Actionmage]

[after re-reading some of this, would it be wrong to call Wells/Thawne, "Harrithawne"?]

 

Brill! Also, being a portmanteau, it's understood which character(s) are meant.

 

Geez when Superman turned back time, he got nothing but props from fandom, lol.

 

Not all fandom. To  this day it's mocked, not unlike Alfred showing Vicky Vale to the Batcave.

 

Was it a selfish decision?  Maybe but I think that depends on what you expect from Barry as a man and as a hero.

 

For myself, what I expect from a  hero, is to find a less damaging way to go back and see his mom. Barry had a choice beyond a) potentially blow up the planet by going back right this second  and b) not go back through time right this second. There was c) find a smarter, safer way to go back through time, just not this second. I know, finale episode, but the writers could have found another way to get Barry into a place where he had to choose the riskier option. (Possibly, Eobard trying to  beat Barry to the hydrogen particle? )

 

I get that Barry wanted a "normal" life; who doesn't want an ideal life? The thing is that the writing has characterized Barry as genuinely nice, then very selfish and toolish to everyone. The frustration/ anger (depending on the person) may, in part, be coming from the season-long habit of Barry to never slow down and think. He is supposed to be very smart, due to his knowledge of the sciences and inventiveness. That is not what the writers are showing us. A hero shouldn't put the planet in danger.  Heroes try their damned to find a third way. Barry doesn't. That's where my frustration comes from.  My anger? Reserved for the writers.

[benteen]

Brill! Also, being a portmanteau, it's understood which character(s) are meant.

 

Not all fandom. To  this day it's mocked, not unlike Alfred showing Vicky Vale to the Batcave.

 

For myself, what I expect from a  hero, is to find a less damaging way to go back and see his mom. Barry had a choice beyond a) potentially blow up the planet by going back right this second  and b) not go back through time right this second. There was c) find a smarter, safer way to go back through time, just not this second. I know, finale episode, but the writers could have found another way to get Barry into a place where he had to choose the riskier option. (Possibly, Eobard trying to  beat Barry to the hydrogen particle? )

 

I get that Barry wanted a "normal" life; who doesn't want an ideal life? The thing is that the writing has characterized Barry as genuinely nice, then very selfish and toolish to everyone. The frustration/ anger (depending on the person) may, in part, be coming from the season-long habit of Barry to never slow down and think. He is supposed to be very smart, due to his knowledge of the sciences and inventiveness. That is not what the writers are showing us. A hero shouldn't put the planet in danger.  Heroes try their damned to find a third way. Barry doesn't. That's where my frustration comes from.  My anger? Reserved for the writers.

 

Perfect assessment, Actionmage and I think this has been the problem.  The writers have refused to allow Barry to look for a third solution to his problems.  The last two weeks especially.

 

I'm not saying he should have given up on going back in time to save his mother.  But when he heard that THE ENTIRE PLANET could be destroyed if things go wrong, he should have decided to scrap the plan.  That doesn't mean giving up but it does mean finding a solution that doesn't put people in danger.  I mean, what the hell was the rush?  They had Wells in custody, a lot of brilliant minds (except the writers decided to dumb down Caitlin) and access to Star Labs.  It's damning on Barry and his friends that the writers refused to allow him to consider a third option.

 

As Barry tried to come up with another solution, you could of had Wells break out of prison and force a situation where Barry did indeed have to go back in time.  Now Wells is really interested in living too and has a huge investment in this going right.  But he's also insane and I have no doubt he'd be willing to take that "blow up the world" risk.  This is what should have happened.  Instead, the writers have Barry and company taking unimaginable shortcuts.

[La Dee Da]

I liked the finale - I would have liked a bit of agonizing about working with Wells and letting a supervillain get back to the future.  I am curious about ending it with a cliffhanger.  I feel preeeety confident Barry will survive, but maybe he's missing during the hiatus (I assume Arrow and Flash are both skipping ahead, so they'll need to align)?   

 

Given all the headaches that time travel and alternate timelines will cause, maybe Cisco's superpower will be tracking and expositing on continuity ("No!  You were President two realities ago!  Get it together, Barry!")?

 

Of course, we don't know how future Barry knows to tell his past self not to intervene. 

 

I wondered about this.  Future Barry has the benefit of knowing all the good he has done or will do as the Flash, and that it's worth preserving, even at the cost of not saving his mother.  This would reflect what Henry was telling present Barry, I think, and prompt him to intervene with present Barry. 

 

There was definitely something to Eddie getting sucked into the wormhole. I'm hopeful that he will come out alive and changed. He was basically the worlds best and most communicative boyfriend, great in real life but boring on tv.

 

That's the thing, though -- from the perspective of the characters, you can't trust anything RF says or does 100 percent. Maybe he is the distant ancestor of child Eddie and Iris had. Maybe he's a child Eddie had or will have with a random fling. Maybe he's not truly an ancestor of this Eddie Thawne, but some other Eddie Thawne. I would have laughed my ass off if Eddie shot himself, and RF was like, "Too late! You have a bastard kid from that hookup you had two New Year's Eves ago that you didn't even know about. I told you you wouldn't amount to anything! Now to get back to beating Barry's ass."

 

I have theories about Eddie!  First, I thought that the reference to his failed date with the dancer was going to set up a child he didn't know about and that after Eddie shot himself, Wells would say it was a noble sacrifice but that his great whatever ancestor was already born.  Mwahahaha, you can't get rid of me, Flash, and so on.  Then, when Eddie was pulled into the wormhole, I thought he was transported to the future, where someone noticed the handsome corpse and decided to either revive him or clone him, keeping the Eobard timeline possibility alive.  Granted, Eobard/Wells dematerializing in the present kind of puts a damper on both theories...

 

I don't think this will be the end of this story - I think Barry will have to face some kind of repercussions on this - or at the very least, he won't mess with time travel intentionally again.

 

I hope so, otherwise he"ll be zipping into the past every two seconds if something doesn't go as planned on a mission, or he wants to test each strategy to see which is viable or even because he's late for the drycleaners.  They need a counterweight so that time travelling isn't the logical solution to every challenge he faces.