S01.E22: Rogue Air

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm going to assume that the show runners of Arrow took creative license when they decided Nanda Parbat was a place instead of a person.

 

Because in Justice League Unlimited, we met Nanda Parbat, who was Bruce Wayne's mentor, and thought to be dead, but turned out, wasn't.

[raytch]

Eddie has the right to bail out of what he considers a doomed relationship, just like Linda did.  A woman has every right to break up with a guy and the reverse is also true.  While Wells is hardly the most trustworthy source of information Eddie already had nagging doubts about Iris/Barry so I can see him seeing the newspaper as confirmation.  That and he might feel like he can't compete with a guy who's not only her best friend but ALSO a superhero.

 

Besides, we KNOW that Iris is in love with Barry - his going back in time one day doesn't change her feelings, all he did was remove the stress that forced her to admit it.

 

Speaking of Eddie, was he really a hostage for two weeks?  That's not much of a stubble he had there. 

 

As the previous commenter said, this should have happened earlier. Leaving the Iris find out about Barry/Flash storyline, and the love triangle build up till the last few episodes is 1) making it annoying because it takes up screen time that could be used on the main plot, 2) not allowing any storyline to breathe, so instead everyone in the love triangle is giving speeches and stands without it having any actual impact with the viewers, 3) had Iris figured out Barry is the Flash earlier, it would have given her room to assess her feelings more coherently and be angry with everyone for more than half an episode.

 

This episode would have worked a lot more if it didn't have the love triangle story line. It felt overstuffed with all the guest appearances and they could have easily used that time to focus on the metahumans, Captain Cold, and Arrow and Firestorm.

Oliver and Ronnie's exist was ridiculous. They helped Barry take down RF and then they whooshed out of the scene together like two partners in a cop movie. I kept expecting them to high five while running or something.

[Ottis]

The idea to have (ugh) Captain Cold back up Flash was illogical. Assuming CC did keep his word, what was he going to do if the metas got out? His only option was to shoot to kill. How does that jibe with Barry being "Mr. Right from Wrong"? "We're going to move you to save your lives. But if you escape, we'll have to kill you."

 

What the hell does "Golden Glider" even mean? She glides somehow? There has to be 10 better names than that.  

 

I thought Eddie was being a dick at first, until he mentioned there had always been three of them in that relationship. Add to that the fact Joe didn't gove his Ok to Eddie marrying Iris, and I could see how Eddie might decide to exit. The way he handled it was dickish, but I get it.

[MarkHB]

I'm going to assume that the show runners of Arrow took creative license when they decided Nanda Parbat was a place instead of a person.

 

Because in Justice League Unlimited, we met Nanda Parbat, who was Bruce Wayne's mentor, and thought to be dead, but turned out, wasn't.

 

Actually, if anyone took creative license it was Dini & Co., as Nanda Parbat has been a city in DC lore since the Silver Age (although not usually associated with Ra's al Ghul).

 

Also, although the ZIP Code 74912 (from Iris's return address labels) does not exist, the prefix region 749 does... and it would seem that Central City is in eastern Oklahoma, probably on the Arkansas River near the border with Fort Smith, Arkansas.

What the hell does "Golden Glider" even mean? She glides somehow? There has to be 10 better names than that. 

 

In the comics, she's a pro-level figure skater who has skates that create their own levitating ice.  She also had a canonical love interest, and I wonder if she'll dump her affections for Cisco when and if they introduce The Top.

[ottoDbusdriver]

The idea to have (ugh) Captain Cold back up Flash was illogical.

 

I know it was for plot convenience just to get Captain Cold and his sister into the story, but why didn't Cisco just build more cold guns and give one to everybody instead ?  Problem solved.

 

Having said that, why would they have let Captain Cold anywhere near the truck trailer so he could sabotage it ? Since his only role was to ride shotgun in case any of the metas got loose.

[TobinAlbers]

Felt for Eddie as he was basically an afterthought to everyone. He was only found because they stumbled upon him AND he screamed out for help. Joe actually playing the 'Partner!' card made me roll my eyes.

 

And I get why he broke up with Iris. He has eyes and knew there was something between her and Barry but like he said he thought he could love her enough and hang in there and he'd become the one for her. Also the guy IS suffering from some physical and psychological trauma from his ordeal. He may be a cop but to find out you're related to a crazy supervillain and your worst fear - losing the woman you love to a guy you know she has a crush on - is demoralizing. He needs some time and space.

 

Although a part of me wonders if Welles pulled another switcheroo and now looks like Eddie but that doesn't explain the final confrontation of Welles against the Flash and the Amells. But something really seemed off with the fight. Wells went down too easy. And seriously Oliver was a liability in that fight and only Ray's nanites saved his butt. Which I hope he sincerely thanked him for.

 

As for the rest, loved Lisa and Cisco, liked the warm moment between Caitlin and Eddie that someone noted, and it was interesting that Joe went along with Barry's plan to let him hang himself/learn from his mistake. It was weirdly supportive of Joe even though he knew it was a baaaaaad plan.

 

Wentworth Miller is having so much fun with Snart, I wonder if he skips around the set he's so happy. And Snart totally has a mancrush on Barry. He and Lisa seem to be the 'Catwomen' to Barry and Cisco respectively. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

Ya'll make me wish I would've watched Arrow. Maybe I need to start watching it.

I've read a lot of posts about Barry being immature, stupid, naive for getting Captain Cold involved. He was stupid for not at least putting Colds info on a flash drive or something- just in case he goes back on his word. But I don't call him going to Cold stupid. Barry knows he's a dangerous criminal. When you're desperate though, you do stupid things or things you wouldn't normally do. He really didn't have anyone else to help him. I'm not trying to be rude here, but I'm just curious- what would ya'll have done different? Who would you have gotten to help you? Or would you just have let them die?

Like others have said, he had at least 2-3 options that would have enabled him to evacuate the Pipeline without blowback for its highly ethically questionable nature -- General Eiling and Argus are two that have been documented in the show. I could understand that they wouldn't necessarily trust Eiling but since their plan involved Argus, it is a pure plot contrivance that Argus didn't handle the transport from start to finish.

 

He had the option of just raw-dogging it. Assuming these people could be knocked out (and we saw they could be knocked out), he could literally carry them to Ferris Air one at a time. The need to get clearance to transport folks is sort of a red herring -- he could have transported them when the roads were presumably clear.

 

He had the option of coming clean with the authorities for holding the bad guys in total violation of their rights.

 

Even dealing with Cold, there is no reason why he destroyed the traces of Cold before the job was done.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Assuming these people could be knocked out (and we saw they could be knocked out), he could literally carry them to Ferris Air one at a time.

 

Since they had already knocked them out with gas, once they were out they should have dosed them with very, very strong sedatives that would have lasted the whole trip to Lian Yu.  Flash could have carried them all to the airport and loaded them on the Argus plane -- and he could have done it in about 2 minutes.  There would have been no need for Captain Cold, or having to wire up the truck with metahuman inhibitors, or wiping Snart's records or anything fancy.  It's almost like the writers went out of their way to make this excessively more complicated than it should have been -- as filler just to pad the episode until the showdown with Wells.

 

Instead, 4 of the 5 metahumans are on the loose, 1 metahuman is dead, the crew of the Argus plane is dead (since it crashed), Barry was hit by lightning (that had to hurt), and Snart has disappeared electronically. Well done Team Flash.

[KirkB]

Ferris Air hell, if you really wanted to show off what Barry is capable of he could have carried them to Lian Yu one at a time. In the comics at least he is fast enough to run on water, I see no reason he couldn't do it with a passenger.

 

Speaking of Ferris Air, I liked the way they did the Green Lantern shout out. To any who don't know the comics that line about the missing pilot would probably slide by, or perhaps be attributed to the particle accelerator and some future meta, but to anyone who DOES know the comics it's a nice tease. That said, I don't see GL actually showing up, at least not any time soon.

 

Oliver and Ronnie would have made better backup than Cold if the metas did get loose but I guess Barry didn't want to tip his hand to Wells? I don't know, it was a pretty stupid move overall but no one is perfect. Certainly not Barry.

 

Overall I really liked this episode, though I'm fairly certain Thawne (Eobard that is) wanted to be caught. He needs the accelerator for his plan and this way he doesn't have to fight through Barry, Joe and whatever Cisco and Caitlin can come up with to get to it, he's already inside.

Edited May 13, 2015 by KirkB

[driedfruit]

Ferris Air hell, if you really wanted to show off what Barry is capable of he could have carried them to Lian Yu one at a time. In the comics at least he is fast enough to run on water, I see no reason he couldn't do it with a passenger.

 

Barry has super speed, not super strength. While he could probably carry Peekaboo with him, some of the bigger guys might've been a problem. This issue came up with Bart on Young Justice, who CW Barry is closer to physically if a bit taller/older. 

Edited May 13, 2015 by driedfruit

[ottoDbusdriver]

Barry has super speed, not super strength. While he could probably carry Peekaboo with him, some of the bigger guys might've been a problem. This issue came up with Wally or Bart on Young Justice, who show Barry is closer to physically.

 

But Barry has no problem carrying Joe or sometimes more than one person, though over shorter distances.  He carried Felicity a long ways so fast her shirt caught on fire.

[chelsie]

I thought Eddie was making the choice for him as well. Its unreasonable to expect him to stay in a relationship if he will always have doubts. I'd rather it this way than him turning dark and Iris running to Barry. Or have her leave Eddie, ultimately humiliating him, at the alter after having an epithany, in which she realises her love for Barry. No. It's best the end it now and have a clean slate for Iris next season.

Edited May 13, 2015 by chelsie

[driedfruit]

But Barry has no problem carrying Joe or sometimes more than one person, though over shorter distances.  He carried Felicity a long ways so fast her shirt caught on fire.

 

Does he carry Joe? It looks more like he shoves and tosses him. I'd think carrying someone bigger than him over long distances is a whole other issue. Felicity doesn't look like she weighs much. 

Edited May 13, 2015 by driedfruit

[ottoDbusdriver]

Does he carry Joe? It looks more like he shoves and tosses him. I'd think carrying someone bigger than him over long distances is a whole other issue. Felicity doesn't look like she weighs much.

 

He took Eddie out of the interrogation room and carried him out of the building.  And then put him back.

[saber5055]

It's best the end it now and have a clean slate for Iris next season.

 

 

Eddie ending it with Iris was a case of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Wells could have been screwing with him with a fake future byline, just like Iris said. And if Eddie DID marry Iris, then the future could be changed. As is, Wells directed Eddie to do what Wells wanted him to do, break up with Iris, for whatever reason he might personally have. So, Iris probably will end up with Barry.

 

Eddie really needed to think that breakup move through before cutting Iris loose.

[Lady Calypso]

Of course Wells planned to get to the particle accelerator; they just made it easier for him to achieve his plan. If they really had knocked him out, if I was Barry, I'd be finding a way to get Wells as far away from the particle accelerator as possible, although he would probably just find a way back anyways.

 

I'm not surprised Barry would go to Cold for help. First of all, CCPD can't really do much when it comes to metahumans, so they wouldn't be able to help. Barry knows they need some extra hands and unfortunately, Cold knows who he is and has a weapon that could help. Would Cisco be able to build some weapons? Sure; he's able to build everything else in less than a couple of hours. But for plot purposes, and to give Cold a reason to be in the spinoff, he had to be the one Barry turned to. Barry's very naive and he has tunnel vision when it comes to achieving his goals. He wants to get Wells stopped, but in order to do that, he also has to save these lives from being destroyed by the particle accelerator...again. Of course he should have tried to compromise and say he would delete half the files and then would delete the other half once he helped, but this is for stupid plot reasons. Cold had to get an upper hand on Barry so the Rogues could escape and we could see them around next season. Which...blah, stop making Barry so stupid. He's a scientist working for the police and will eventually build Gideon. He's not a dummy, so stop making him one, show.

 

Ok, so we have...three scenes with Iris, one where she's being useful and the other two are her breakup with Eddie. Of course. But poor Eddie. He gets kidnapped, put down in a sewer and gets forgotten about until he starts shouting for help. Like, they see Wells leave the compound and they don't think of rushing through to see if Eddie's around? They just stand there until they hear his voice? Poor guy. I don't blame him for breaking up with Iris, but it still sucks. I hope he's going to be ok. But....I did laugh as he mentioned that there were three people in the relationship. That really could be taken a different way. 

 

So, hi Al Sah Him...I mean, Oliver. It's nice of you to stop by in Central City during your own drama and help out. The only logical sense this makes is if this took place before Arrow 322, when he was still around in Starling City, but that means he would have had to anticipate what was going on. So...I guess it could have been right after 322, when Oliver was coming back to Starling City and make a quick pit stop. Oh, hi Ronnie!

[MarkHB]

Speaking of "Hi Ronnie," This tweet by Stephen Amell is awesome.

 

So far as scheduling goes, I think this fell into the middle of 322.

[driedfruit]

He took Eddie out of the interrogation room and carried him out of the building.  And then put him back.

 

Eddie is short and not particularly big. It's not that hard to believe someone Grant Gustin's size could carry him for a bit. 

[miracole]

 

it's starting to make her look really bad that she can't acknowledge her own feelings,

I think she has acknowledged that she has more than friendly feelings for Barry but she's also acknowledged that she loves Eddie and those are the feelings she's choosing to continue to focus on. Just because you have certain feelings doesn't mean you have to give into them or act on them. I actually want her and Barry together but the way everyone close to her is acting like she's in denial and just doesn't know her own mind is annoying. Also they are acting like all that's necessary for Barry and Iris to be together forever is for her to admit to being in love with him.  Being in love with someone doesn't automatically make a  relationship successful, that's only a part of it. Trust also helps and after Barry's lying spree(and yes Iris had every right to know his secret about being the Flash  people keep talking about it being none of her business, whatever. If Barry loves her like he keeps saying he does, even just as a friend, then yes he was obligated to tell her)they will have a lot more things to work out before they can even think about being a couple.

 

Worst. Plan. Ever. Barry. However I think Barry just wanted to keep pretending to be the good guy in this situation.  If the Metas got out of hand it would be Snart that iced them and not Barry of the bright and shiny things. Hands clean...

 

I too thought it was weird when Firestorm and Arrow just strolled off.  Geez, make sure he's really out and not just faking or something at least before you leave.

 

Oh Joe how quaint, you let Barry make his own choices and mistakes even though they'll probably get everyone in the city killed yet Iris can't decide on her own career...

 

Joe is a crappy partner. 

Edited May 13, 2015 by miracole

[ruby24]

I think she has acknowledged that she has more than friendly feelings for Barry but she's also acknowledged that she loves Eddie and those are the feelings she's choosing to continue to focus on. Just because you have certain feelings doesn't mean you have to give into them or act on them. I actually want her and Barry together but the way everyone close to her is acting like she's in denial and just doesn't know her own mind is annoying. Also they are acting like all that's necessary for Barry and Iris to be together forever is for her to admit to being in love with him.  Being in love with someone doesn't automatically make a  relationship successful, that's only a part of it. Trust also helps and after Barry's lying spree(and yes Iris had every right to know his secret about being the Flash  people keep talking about it being none of her business, whatever. If Barry loves her like he keeps saying he does, even just as a friend, then yes he was obligated to tell her)they will have a lot more things to work out before they can even think about being a couple.

I think the problem with that is that we know she does want to be with him because of episode 1x15. I mean, after having seen that episode, the audience does she know how she feels, but it's for some reason proving impossible for her to acknowledge what we already know, and that's just getting really irritating.

Edited May 13, 2015 by ruby24

[Primetimer]

Enemies and allies alike come out of the woodwork, and Eobard Thawne makes his big move.

Read the story

[Lyndy]

Mkay. I know we've covered this in previous episodes but could these people maybe get a lock for the front door? No? Captain Cold can just wander in off the street with no one noticing until he's actually inside the inner sanctum? Sure, okay.

 

Apart from that, I sort of love this show. Also, no disrespect to Iris but if this show was just Barry, Cisco, Caitlin and Joe with rotating recurring characters, I'd be perfectly happy. I find all of them charming as hell. [selfishly I keep hoping they contrive a reason for Jesse L. Martin to sing.]

[Aeryn13]

I get that "all my friends don`t answer their phones" can be tricky but to go from that right to "well. then I go to an enemy and pretend THEY are my new friend"? First off, it`s called leverage, Barry, you lose it if you do EVERYTHING what the bad guy wants upfront. Not even "I do half of it now, half after you keep up your end" but everything he asked. He will not adhere to the honour system. 

 

I get that heroes falter and make mistakes, it`s to be expected in every hero`s journey. And the "nice guy" dudes like Barry often fall easily for a ruse from the bad guy but this felt way too naive and pat. Losing at chess is one thing, losing at checkers quite another.

 

Though I think even Snart felt kinda "gee, I can`t kick him again right now" and that is why he didn`t kill him. 

 

And then, in the end, Ronny and Oliver just drop by anyway. That made the whole thing seem so flimsy. Basically, the prison break didn`t even need to happen.

 

Also, Wells` plan was apparently to come and gloat? Good thing he slowed down from his "thousand steps ahead" pace and let himself be captured rather easily. 

 

It`s not that I hated the episode overall but I think Barry got the short end of the stick here. I gotta say they managed to do the Flash backdoor Pilot more elegantly last year IMO. The set-up for the new spin-off feels clumsier and more on the nose. 

[chelsie]

I still maintain they could have found a way for Iris to be a part of the show even if she did not know the secret. There is no reason she could not have contributed with findings from her blog.

 

Keeping in line with that thought, did Barry give Iris back her damn folder with her findings from her blog?

 

I have a few questions:

- Isn't the Iris-lookalike DA (David Singh too for that matter) a little too young for that position?  I thought those types of jobs went to those with years of field experience.

- Don't police departments have backup systems in the event of hacking. Or at least have someone of authority authorise the deletion of files via typing in a code of some sort? In other words, Barry shouldnt have been able to delete those files even if he wanted to.

- What is stopping Barry collecting Cold and throwing his ass in Jail? He knows where Cold hangs out all he needs to do is superspeed him in a jail cell.

Edited May 13, 2015 by chelsie

[ruby24]

What they ought to do with Iris is make her kind of a Lois Lane-lite. I mean, nosy reporter is perfect for getting involved in all the villain drama going on. I think it'd be pretty easy to incorporate her role on the show as that, but that goes along with ditching the pointless and stupid love interest she's saddled with (Eddie).

 

I don't see why these shows have to have constant relationship drama. It takes away from the rest of it and the person who's stuck with her only role being "worried about pointless love interest nobody cares about" is going to get the short end of the stick. I say take a page out of Lois & Clark's book (anyone remember that show?) and just go ahead and let the couple that's supposed to be together, be together as a pair/partners as much as possible. Then they're able to just do the show without worrying about the stupid will they/won't they stuff.

[bettername2come]

- What is stopping Barry collecting Cold and throwing his ass in Jail? He knows where Cold hangs out all he needs to do is superspeed him in a jail cell.

 

Cold know his identity and has threatened to release it. Not like he's that careful with it anyway. What they really need is for Caitlin and Cisco to work on one of those memory erasing flashy things from Men In Black. That would solve a lot of their problems.

[Sakura12]

Or Barry can stop telling everyone who he is. 

[The Real Chon]

If there's this huge from-the-future computer just up the hallway, which is Barry's slave 'n' all, shouldn't they mebbe oughta pick its brains? Mighta even known what that pesky power source was, or tell Barry how he defeated RF, or something. Or is that too deus ex machina?

[Latverian Diplomat]

Ferris Air hell, if you really wanted to show off what Barry is capable of he could have carried them to Lian Yu one at a time. In the comics at least he is fast enough to run on water, I see no reason he couldn't do it with a passenger.

 

Speaking of Ferris Air, I liked the way they did the Green Lantern shout out. To any who don't know the comics that line about the missing pilot would probably slide by, or perhaps be attributed to the particle accelerator and some future meta, but to anyone who DOES know the comics it's a nice tease. That said, I don't see GL actually showing up, at least not any time soon.

 

Oliver and Ronnie would have made better backup than Cold if the metas did get loose but I guess Barry didn't want to tip his hand to Wells? I don't know, it was a pretty stupid move overall but no one is perfect. Certainly not Barry.

 

He carried Plastique a short distance over (calm) water. But not open ocean. The show seems to put some not well defined limits on his endurance. We saw him out of breath in this episode, for example.

 

The GL reference was also accessible to those unfortunate enough to see the movie. Did they mean to imply that that facility was closed, or that Ferris went out of business? Because I would like to see Carol Ferris, CEO.

 

Cold know his identity and has threatened to release it. Not like he's that careful with it anyway. What they really need is for Caitlin and Cisco to work on one of those memory erasing flashy things from Men In Black. That would solve a lot of their problems.

Or just haul his ass to Lian Yu.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Latverian Diplomat

[Latverian Diplomat]

- Don't police departments have backup systems in the event of hacking. Or at least have someone of authority authorise the deletion of files via typing in a code of some sort? In other words, Barry shouldnt have been able to delete those files even if he wanted to.

 

The thing with backups is that you need to know you've been hacked and some of your data has been restored. If they don't know that, they won't do a restore and the backups will eventually age out.

 

Not that they wasn't a lot of hand waving with the whole erase Leonard Snart thing, but if you can get physical access to the computers, you can circumvent a lot of the protections (all of them, if you really know your stuff). And Barry's speed has given him easy stealth access to even secure places like prisons, so computer rooms should also be vulnerable.

[MarkHB]

I swear I've seen a Ferris Air mention earlier this year... maybe on one of the Coast City mentions? I think they meant that the Central City facility was closed.

 

Too bad it's too late this year for a reasonable introduction of GL... Arrow could have used him and done Hard Travelin' Heroes next season!

[FurryFury]

I swear I've seen a Ferris Air mention earlier this year... maybe on one of the Coast City mentions? I think they meant that the Central City facility was closed.

 

I remember it from another season of Arrow, maybe s1 or s2.

 

Not going to watch this episode, it sounds horrible, I'll probably watch the finale and then I'm out. Can't  believe how overrated this show is.

[quarks]

I swear I've seen a Ferris Air mention earlier this year... maybe on one of the Coast City mentions? I think they meant that the Central City facility was closed.

 

Too bad it's too late this year for a reasonable introduction of GL... Arrow could have used him and done Hard Travelin' Heroes next season!

 

Ferris Air was just mentioned on Arrow's last episode. If Malcolm is to be trusted, they fly to someplace near Nanda Parbat. Felicity thinks you should get horses from there. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

If there's this huge from-the-future computer just up the hallway, which is Barry's slave 'n' all, shouldn't they mebbe oughta pick its brains? Mighta even known what that pesky power source was, or tell Barry how he defeated RF, or something. Or is that too deus ex machina?

I'm under the impression that RF packed Gideon up after he left. That's how he was able to show Eddie Tomorrow's News Today. So the Flash Mob no longer has access to it.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I have a few questions:

- Isn't the Iris-lookalike DA (David Singh too for that matter) a little too young for that position?  I thought those types of jobs went to those with years of field experience.

- Don't police departments have backup systems in the event of hacking. Or at least have someone of authority authorise the deletion of files via typing in a code of some sort? In other words, Barry shouldnt have been able to delete those files even if he wanted to.

- What is stopping Barry collecting Cold and throwing his ass in Jail? He knows where Cold hangs out all he needs to do is superspeed him in a jail cell.

First of all, it's not clear to me whether Cecile is supposed to be THE DA or just an assistant/deputy DA.

 

But in any case, in many real-world jurisdictions, THE DA is an elected position, which means basically any lawyer can run. 

 

The actress who plays Cecile is 43, according to IMDB.

 

For an analogue, the Baltimore prosecutor who gained some fame for bringing the case against the six police officers is 35, which is about how old I'd imagine Cecile is supposed to be.  http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/who-is-baltimore-states-attorney-marilyn-j-mosby/2015/05/01/12be80e2-f013-11e4-8abc-d6aa3bad79dd_story.html 

 

In the Arrowflashverse, there is nothing that could not be hacked. So whatever protections the CCPD might have in place, I'm sure Barry could overcome that with hints from Cisco and Felicity plus super-speed.

 

Captain Cold has said that he has a failsafe device that will broadcast Barry's true identity if he doesn't check in every 24 hours. Barry took him at his word and for some reason didn't bother to have the many tech geniuses at his disposal determine if that were true and if there were a way to stop it.

[Sakura12]

Maybe they should build a high speed train like the one that connects Starling City to Nanda Parbat to go Lian Yu. 

 

I also want to know when Barry becomes a computer expert? He hacked into multiple law enforcement databases and will build a functioning AI computer. 

[ruby24]

Yeah, that does seem to be something they've forgotten to mention about him. Unless we're just supposed to know it. But the show also seems to forget that he's actually supposed to be really smart and a science wiz, much less a computer expert. It'd be nice if they remembered that occasionally.

[phoenics]

What they ought to do with Iris is make her kind of a Lois Lane-lite. I mean, nosy reporter is perfect for getting involved in all the villain drama going on. I think it'd be pretty easy to incorporate her role on the show as that, but that goes along with ditching the pointless and stupid love interest she's saddled with (Eddie).

 

I don't see why these shows have to have constant relationship drama. It takes away from the rest of it and the person who's stuck with her only role being "worried about pointless love interest nobody cares about" is going to get the short end of the stick. I say take a page out of Lois & Clark's book (anyone remember that show?) and just go ahead and let the couple that's supposed to be together, be together as a pair/partners as much as possible. Then they're able to just do the show without worrying about the stupid will they/won't they stuff.

What you're suggesting is actually how Barry and Iris are in the comics... it's definitely frustrating for this fan to see Iris sidelined so much given how iconic the character of Iris is.

[ruby24]

What you're suggesting is actually how Barry and Iris are in the comics... it's definitely frustrating for this fan to see Iris sidelined so much given how iconic the character of Iris is.

Well great, even better! They have every reason to at least try it then, if that's the case. I could maybe understand them not wanting to do that if the actors were a misfire together or something, but I think they got lucky here. Barry and Iris are awfully cute, and they both have this sort of warm, open hearted happy look to them- I sort of think they'd be like adorable puppies if paired together, lol. And I didn't see any spark with him and Caitlin (who I don't think is the greatest actress, sorry) or Linda either, so imo they ought to just go for it and see if it could work.

[phoenics]

Well great, even better! They have every reason to at least try it then, if that's the case. I could maybe understand them not wanting to do that if the actors were a misfire together or something, but I think they got lucky here. Barry and Iris are awfully cute, and they both have this sort of warm, open hearted happy look to them- I sort of think they'd be like adorable puppies if paired together, lol. And I didn't see any spark with him and Caitlin (who I don't think is the greatest actress, sorry) or Linda either, so imo they ought to just go for it and see if it could work.

I kinda think that's their plan, but I could be wrong.

My biggest irritation is that the existence of Team Flash (and overbearing father Joe) actually prevented this from happening from the beginning. Barry wanted to tell Iris, but didn't. Plus, Barry seems to be dumbed down in terms of his scientific prowess in order to make room for Team Flash... and I think in order to give Team Flash something to do Iris was kinda robbed of a lot of her storyline potential. It's better now that she knows, but even still...

I also wonder if next season Iris will be more in the fold and then we can get more stories around Barry maturing as a superhero... it just feels like his growth has been stunted having Team Flash and Wells hovering over him all season... when he actually needs to get out there and make more mistakes so he can grow. This mistake he made with Snart should have happened early on in the season - at this point it wasn't a lesson he should have been learning SO late in the game.

It just feels like other superheroes who doesn't have "Teams" mature so much faster and you really see when they are stretched to their limit, etc..

I hope they fix this next season.

[ruby24]

In theory I don't really mind the existence of Team Flash, and I have to admit that I love the Barry/Joe relationship (which is so great that I don't think they can ever get his dad out of prison because of it, lol)- but I just don't see why having those things means that Barry can't ALSO be smart, and that he and Iris can't ALSO have this great relationship that's a supportive thing, rather than melodramatic.

 

Because I know they think of Arrow as being kind of a soap opera, but I don't think the melodrama has added anything to this show. In fact, the best part has been the loving, warm, family stuff, because it's actually different for once. But what they did with Iris was same old, same old, and that's why the stupid triangle has sucked for the most part. She could have easily been a positive aspect to his life, and she still could be- and that would be a positive factor to the whole show, if they'd let it.

Edited May 13, 2015 by ruby24

[Latverian Diplomat]

In the Arrowflashverse, there is nothing that could not be hacked. So whatever protections the CCPD might have in place, I'm sure Barry could overcome that with hints from Cisco and Felicity plus super-speed.

In fairness, this is how computers are in lots of TV shows. Another part of the convention is that hacking is a matter of extreme cleverness, without all the hours of tedious trial and error or social engineering that goes into real hacking. Just whip up a few lines of code, and bingo, you're in.

 

It's ridiculous, but at least Felicity does it with panache.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Latverian Diplomat

[Latverian Diplomat]

In theory I don't really mind the existence of Team Flash, and I have to admit that I love the Barry/Joe relationship (which is so great that I don't think they can ever get his dad out of prison because of it, lol)- but I just don't see why having those things means that Barry can't ALSO be smart,

I have a theory about Barry. The Flash's powers (and those of his villains) are somewhat esoteric. So, I think they are afraid of it being hard to follow what he's trying to do and why. Unlike the comics, where Barry can work things out in thought bubbles, the show falls back on dialogue, which means Barry has to have stuff explained to him all the time.

 

The other thing is they over-rely on Barry being a newb who makes mistakes in order to have him lose the "first battle" in almost every episode. 

 

These things combine to make Barry seem, well, not bright.

[ruby24]

Well then, that may actually be another handy reason to put Iris in the mix more, so she can be the person they explain things to for the audience. She's really not the physicist that Barry is supposed to be, so it would make sense and allow them to remind us that Barry is supposed to be smart himself.

Edited May 14, 2015 by ruby24

[chelsie]

Barry seems to lacks the one thing that is essential which can be found in other Heros tho: instincts/intuition.

Joe is not probably as academically clever as Barry but he knows what's up. This is true of arrow too. Even Iris has a good instinct, and demonstrated streetsmarts. She's nobody's fool. Barry was part brought up by a cop, surely he would have picked something up at the West household.

Barry should also hone his fighting skills.

Edited May 14, 2015 by chelsie

[TV Anonymous]

I think I am wrong, but I see that the computer at CCPD works in such an accelerated speed just because The Flash operates it.

 

At the beginning, Snart was depicted as a low-level criminal who just managed to get Cisco's gun by the way of a janitor. Then how did he managed to sabotage Cisco's plan, a plan dealing with complicated and foreign technology. Remember that in this universe Snart is just a user who has nothing to do with the engineering of his own weapon.

[cynic]

I didn't like it. Granted I missed the first fifteen minutes of the episode last night, but nothing I saw or have read here makes me want to go back and watch the rest. It actually makes me kinda sad, because I loved this show in the beginning of the season, but I think it's lost me.

I don't watch Arrow and I don't plan to watch the new spinoff either, so the crossovers do nothing for me. Worse, I don't particularly enjoy most of the crossover characters. I find Stephen Ammell to be stiff and Oliver Queen kinda unpleasant, which is part of the reason I don't watch Arrow. I also don't enjoy the tone of the show or the story. That it seems like the producers expect me to follow both shows to get the full experience out of the Flash is irritating. Add a third show into this mix and ugh.

The writing on this show is inconsistent at best. Perhaps they're spending too much time thinking up ways to crossover, because they certainly aren't spending the time crafting deep and compelling characters or making the plots and character actions make sense. And total word to those of you that take issue with Barry's maturity and intelligence levels. They make him hard to root for and it's ruining him. They've already ruined Joe for me.

Lastly, I just find the tone of the show to be kinda weird. Sometimes it feels like an earnest, yet fun take on the genre and then it veers into broad, campy goofiness with childish humor and overdone reaction shots. I seriously can't take Danielle Panabaker. Everytime they write "funny" bits for her, it's like I'm suddenly watching Hannah Montana. Carlos Valdes is more talented, but a little Cisco goes a long way. I know it's a comic book show, but I just wish it was played more straight and the characters seemed more adult, since they all are.

If Tom Cavanaugh gets written out, I'll likely stop watching. Without him, the only saving grace of the show for me would be a well-built, mature relationship between Barry and Iris working together, whether they're romantic partners or not.

[ruby24]

I didn't like it. Granted I missed the first fifteen minutes of the episode last night, but nothing I saw or have read here makes me want to go back and watch the rest. It actually makes me kinda sad, because I loved this show in the beginning of the season, but I think it's lost me.

I don't watch Arrow and I don't plan to watch the new spinoff either, so the crossovers do nothing for me. Worse, I don't particularly enjoy most of the crossover characters. I find Stephen Ammell to be stiff and Oliver Queen kinda unpleasant, which is part of the reason I don't watch Arrow. I also don't enjoy the tone of the show or the story. That it seems like the producers expect me to follow both shows to get the full experience out of the Flash is irritating. Add a third show into this mix and ugh.

The writing on this show is inconsistent at best. Perhaps they're spending too much time thinking up ways to crossover, because they certainly aren't spending the time crafting deep and compelling characters or making the plots and character actions make sense. And total word to those of you that take issue with Barry's maturity and intelligence levels. They make him hard to root for and it's ruining him. They've already ruined Joe for me.

Lastly, I just find the tone of the show to be kinda weird. Sometimes it feels like an earnest, yet fun take on the genre and then it veers into broad, campy goofiness with childish humor and overdone reaction shots. I seriously can't take Danielle Panabaker. Everytime they write "funny" bits for her, it's like I'm suddenly watching Hannah Montana. Carlos Valdes is more talented, but a little Cisco goes a long way. I know it's a comic book show, but I just wish it was played more straight and the characters seemed more adult, since they all are.

If Tom Cavanaugh gets written out, I'll likely stop watching. Without him, the only saving grace of the show for me would be a well-built, mature relationship between Barry and Iris working together, whether they're romantic partners or not.

I agree with you on this 100%. She's really not that great of an actress. I assume they did that one episode with her and Barry at the bar to see if there could be any sparks between them, but man that was a flatline. Same for the episode with the shapeshifter. She's no Felicity as far as tech girl sidekick character, that's for sure.

 

Cisco's pretty good though- I actually laugh at some of his lines ocassionally.

[Cthulhudrew]

What was Snart's original request that Barry absolutely wouldn't (couldn't?) do? That's what I'm curious about.

[ruby24]

Yeah, me too! That was weird actually, that he would write something down that Barry says is impossible, but we never find out what it is? I mean, that's got to come up again right? Or could they seriously just not bother to think of anything that would actually be impossible for him to want, so they just brushed it off on a note.