S03.E22: This Is Your Sword

[Guest]

I totally understand Diggle's anger at Oliver (and Oliver is such a clueless idiot for being surprised by his anger) but I'm already fed up of them being on the outs so if this continues too far into s4, I'mma be pissed.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Guest

[blixie]

Wow the dialogue was atrocious, the plot unbearably stupid, the wedding offensive, adn Diggle's outrage annoying, but at least it *moved* and the stupid was more in keeping with the kind of camp I like in my comic book sourced stories. Like I could very easily here the 60's Batman voice over guy, talking about how DIRE the situation was in the cell. Will Oliver Queen ever return? Is everyone dead? tune in next time, same Bat Time, same Bat Channel!

 

I love Tatsu and she is the only one that gave me even a little bit of feels, singing to Akio and killing Saraab.

 

Sigh I'm so glad there is only one more episode of this lame season.

[AyChihuahua]

So was Maseo flat-out bad, meaning this wasn't some ARGUS plot against Ra's, using Maseo?  

 

I thought killing the mayor was pretty crappy, and trying to kill Felicity, so I'm still totally fine with him being dead.  Pretty weird that he apparently tried to kill Tatsu, though.  What an asshole.  Kind of similar to Malcolm, really...somebody killed someone I loved, so I'm going to kill ERRYONE.

[catrox14]

I just can't understand Diggle here. I mean I get that he's really upset with Oliver, and he has reason but  he HAS to believe that Oliver has a bigger plan.  I'm not diggin' John right now for his utter disbelief in Oliver. :(

[benteen]

I enjoyed the episode.  Definitely a lot better than last week.  It wasn't without its flaws and the Team Arrow's back-and-forth on whether or not they've lost Oliver is EXHAUSTING!  I really think they need a clean slate from a lot of his angst in Seson 4 although I wouldn't count on it.

 

Very good action and Tatsu was awesome.  I did laugh at Felicity chucking that tablet at the ninja's throat.  Actually like Ray's use this episode.  Sorry to see Roy go once again but hopefully this means Thea will become Speedy next season.

 

Bridezillas are bad enough but nothing is more pathetic than the father-in-law from hell.  I wouldn't put it past him to watch his daughter and Oliver consummate the marriage.  There's nothing redeeming about Ra in any way.

[statsgirl]

Well, that was gross in every way.

 

ETA: I mean the wedding, not the ep as a whole

I thought the whole episodes was gross.  What wasn't depressing was bad writing, and much of the depressing stuff was too.

 

In Canada, there was no preview so you're left with the image of Felicity, Diggle, Ray etc. dying while the wedding ceremony goes on.  Tiffany Vogt was right about the wedding not mattering, I'm so upset about the rest of the episode, including Roy lead Thea for the stupidest of reasons (maybe she wants to be on the run with you, idiot), that I just can't care about the wedding at all.

 

Everythihg that seemed positive, like destroying the virus or Thea re-connecting with Roy, ended up depressing and horrible.  What were the writers thinking?

[SonofaBiscuit]

I watched the episode but I'm confused.  Why exactly did Tatsu kill Maseo?  I think I missed something while typing, maybe?

[tennisgurl]

 

I really think it was irresponsible of MG to put something so hopeless on TV.  I spent months clawing my way out of a depression but he's opened that door again wide.

I totally feel you. I had to up my medication because of how generally depressing and crappy so many of my favorite shows have become lately. I hope you feel better. I have faith that things will improve!

 

I`ll need to watch that one again, but...it wasn't as bad as I worried I guess.

 

I actually don't mind Roy as much these days. Now that they have kind of backed off on the "Ray is awesome"! thing, he is just a decent supporting character. Still don't really like him, but he`s ok.

 

I miss Roy already. He and Thea are so cute. I don't know why he left! Come back Roy! Come back! 

 

Oliver, I love you, but let your team in on the damn plan! 

 

This really has been a depressing season. 

[bettername2come]

Obviously Ra's smashed a fake virus and everyone thinks they're dying, but the question becomes who made Oliver the fake virus?

 

Caitlin! She cured Mirakuru last season, I say she could create an inoculation for this or create a fake.

And Oliver sent Barry to help the team! Or Cisco had a tracer in Ray's suit and sent him after his buddy. Although I have no idea which episode's gonna come first, continuity wise. Seems Oliver would need to save Starling before he fought Wells.

 

Diggle just keeps being awesome. I love that traumatizing his baby is the breaking point for the friendship. I buy that. He and Felicity were all kinds of adorable, and then passing out together.

Edited May 7, 2015 by bettername2come

[statsgirl]

I thought killing the mayor was pretty crappy, and trying to kill Felicity, so I'm still totally fine with him being dead.  Pretty weird that he apparently tried to kill Tatsu, though.  What an asshole.

Maseo attacked Tatsu and tried to kill her (very pretty fighting scene though) but at the last minute, her sword flashed up and she killed him instead.

 

I felt so sorry for Tatsu, first Akio dying in her arms (although that was later in the episode) and then having to kill Maseo. Although it seemed kind of fitting in a seppuku kind of way.  When the least disturbing part of the episode is a woman killing the husband she still loves, you know it's pretty bad.

Edited May 7, 2015 by statsgirl

[catahoulamama]

Can the writers ever write a realistic amount of angst/tension between characters. Either the smallest things are blown out of proportion or the biggest things are swept under the rug?

 

 

^^ Ladies and gentlemen, Season 3 in a nutshell right there. LOL

[AyChihuahua]

I just can't understand Diggle here. I mean I get that he's really upset with Oliver, and he has reason but  he HAS to believe that Oliver has a bigger plan.  I'm not diggin' John right now for his utter disbelief in Oliver. :(

I don't know, I'm just reading about it, and I pretty much can't stand Oliver anymore.  

[Jediknight]

I watched the episode but I'm confused.  Why exactly did Tatsu kill Maseo?  I think I missed something while typing, maybe?

He was trying to kill her, and was about to kill her before she plunged her sword into him.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Kidnapping?  Unforgivable!  Murdering over 500 people?  Fine.  Totally cool.

 

He was trying to kill her, and was about to kill her before she plunged her sword into him.

 

 

OK, so my next question is why was Maseo trying to kill Tatsu?  Obviously I missed some very important stuff here.

Edited May 7, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[nksarmi]

I'm so upset about the rest of the episode, including Roy lead Thea for the stupidest of reasons (maybe she wants to be on the run with you, idiot),

I'm going to forgive Roy because this isn't the life he would have chosen for himself, because he really does love Thea, and because he knows her first reaction is to bolt.  I think he might be right that she needs to become whoever it is she is going to become for herself. And let's face it, if she ever wants to find his stupid yet noble ass (he learned a lot from Oliver) Thea can get Felicity to ping him and she can track him down again.  I wouldn't be surprised if Colton doesn't come back that when Willa is ready to leave the show that we get a ER type reunion between these two or at least, it's something I feel like I can keep my fingers crossed for.  I really believe they love each other a great deal and I hope they end up together before this show is all said and done.

[kismet]

Yeah, putting all of the main cast in a room to die simply means there are no stakes because we automatically know that they're not going to kill off the whole cast so it was kind of ridiculous. I actually thought Ra's might bring out Felicity and threaten her life to break Oliver or something. That would have raised the stakes a little. But yeah. That wasn't a cliffhanger. That was a waste of time really.

 

 

Yeah, I thought for sure after he mentioned having Maseo's beloved locked up that he was going to go for Felicity. I wonder what he did to Tatsu?

Simple answer Ras seems to be one of the most oblivious "mastermind" villains out there according to this version. I believe he is evil. But he seems to miss the forest for the trees... Either that or he really is suffering from some cognitive decline/failures from excessive LP use. He seems to be mentally not of sound mind any more, or perhaps that's what I need to believe to handwave some of his actions. Villain 101: If you suspect someone is disloyal or lying to you, threaten a loved one.

 

MG & the Arrow writers are beginning to make me question my moral code... Last week, I didn't understand why Diggle was so pissed about the Lyla kidnapping. And this week, Im sitting on the couch questioning why Ras just isn't threatening/torturing Felicity? Honestly, I hope I am not losing my moral compass. Hopefully, Im just losing my critical thinking sleuth skills and Ras has some masterplan that he is still fleshing out. Man, how I would love to have underestimated Ras planning skills when it comes to AlShaHim. The wedding is pretty awful, but it doesn't prove that OQ is disloyal, it only shows how far he is willing to go. But threaten FS, and it probably would have taken sec/min for him to break character to rescue/defend/protect her.

[nksarmi]

Kidnapping?  Unforgivable!  Murdering over 500 people?  Fine.  Totally cool.

 

 

OK, so my next question is why was Maseo trying to kill Tatsu?  Obviously I missed some very important stuff here.

Ok but to be fair Diggle is so NOT ok with Malcolm Merlyn....neither is Felicity or Laurel for that matter.  They just haven't spared him enough time to figure out who has a prison that could hold him.  They might still get there - I believe in them!

[AyChihuahua]

So, Malcolm told Ra's that Oliver is playing him, and in response Oliver married Nyssa as ordered (that will never ever not be grotesque) and "killed" his entire team.  So Ra's is probably cool with Oliver now, right?  Does that mean Malcolm is in trouble with Ra's, for seemingly lying about Oliver not being loyal?

[statsgirl]

I know the big twist is supposed to be Diggle giving up on Oliver because of kidnapping Lyla but tbqh, leaving them in that cell thinking they're going to die like that is much, much worse.

 

I will be disappointed in Felicity if she forgives Oliver for that one.

 

Does that mean Malcolm is in trouble with Ra's, for seemingly lying about Oliver not being loyal?

Malcolm is presumably dead from the virus now along with Diggle, Felicity, Laurel and Ray,.

Edited May 7, 2015 by statsgirl

[nksarmi]

So, Malcolm told Ra's that Oliver is playing him, and in response Oliver married Nyssa as ordered (that will never ever not be grotesque) and "killed" his entire team.  So Ra's is probably cool with Oliver now, right?  Does that mean Malcolm is in trouble with Ra's, for seemingly lying about Oliver not being loyal?

Malcolm was in the room with TA being "killed".

[AyChihuahua]

I know the big twist is supposed to be Diggle giving up on Oliver because of kidnapping Lyla but tbqh, leaving them in that cell thinking they're going to die like that is much, much worse.

 

I will be disappointed in Felicity if she forgives Oliver for that one.

Seriously, if I were any of them I'd honestly be outta there forever with regard to Oliver.  

[nksarmi]

I know the big twist is supposed to be Diggle giving up on Oliver because of kidnapping Lyla but tbqh, leaving them in that cell thinking they're going to die like that is much, much worse.

 

I will be disappointed in Felicity if she forgives Oliver for that one.

Honestly, I could understand Diggle's rage if it was more centered on Sara.  Because yes Lyla was fine, but leaving a baby alone like that could have resulted in disaster.  Yes they just came in on her crying, but we don't know how long she was left alone.  If I was Diggle, I'd be more pissed that the idiot who wasn't a father thought it was acceptable to leave a baby alone in a crib for heaven knows how long just to carry out his fake mission.  The fact that he did it while not being brainwashed would make me never fully trust him again.

[Delphi]

Kidnapping? Unforgivable! Murdering over 500 people? Fine. Totally cool.

OK, so my next question is why was Maseo trying to kill Tatsu? Obviously I missed some very important stuff here.

I don't think there was any coming back for maseo, he was with the league too long. He fought Tatsu because he was told to. He was too far gone and would have killed her. Katana didn't have to kill him...But it was her gut instinct. And the right one.

[apinknightmare]

I just can't understand Diggle here. I mean I get that he's really upset with Oliver, and he has reason but  he HAS to believe that Oliver has a bigger plan.  I'm not diggin' John right now for his utter disbelief in Oliver. :(

 

Didn't Oliver basically tell him he was working Ra's when they had their meeting? He knows. And yeah, I don't get it either. I mean, I understand him being upset, but not this level of upset. Not at all.

[bmoore4026]

I thought Rila Fukushima did a great job this episode!  Katana being forced to kill Maseo was actually quite sad, but the death of Akio was even more heartbreaking and I think she nailed it in those scenes.  I hope she survives and becomes a part of Team Arrow.

 

Ra's needs to be dropped in a volcano.  That is all.  Ray, you continue to be useless.

 

The ending would have quite the cliffhanger, had the season finale preview not spoiled so much.  Not how you get people hyped, show.

 

And is Roy leaving?  Because if Thea becomes Olivier's new partner, I'll join the Secret Society of Supervillains myself just to take her out!

 

So, what wedding presents would you guys have gotten Olivier and Nyssa?

[nksarmi]

Didn't Oliver basically tell him he was working Ra's when they had their meeting? He knows. And yeah, I don't get it either. I mean, I understand him being upset, but not this level of upset. Not at all.

I think if you sub in Diggle being pissed about Sara being left alone for Lyla being taken - the anger makes more sense.  Yes Lyla can take care of herself, but baby Sara can't.  And while Diggle loves the hell out of his kickass wife, the fact that he failed to keep Lyla and Sara safe from his former best friend/brother has to be a huge hit for him - something that wouldn't be easy to process or forgive.  Then for him to find out just a day or two later that his friend was faking it and targeted his wife and left his baby girl unattended all because he had to play some con?  I think Diggle should only be more angry - not less.  Diggle has good reason not to ever trust Oliver again.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Well the writing there just doesn't make sense to me.  Maseo killed Tatsu because he was told to, but he risked his life to secretly retrieve Oliver's body and bring him to Tatsu so that she could use her magical herbs to nurse him back to health.  This entire season has been full of things like this that don't make any sense.

 

And forget the kidnapping/abandoned baby Sara stuff.  

I would be PISSED if someone let me believe that I was going to die from a lethal virus, only to find out that it was all a ruse and I was just knocked out temporarily.

Edited May 7, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[fantique]

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

[Lantern7]

At least we have a glimmer of hope. More than what I'm getting off Survivor these days.

 

I'm surprised Tatsu could pull off the comics-inspired mask. It looks better than the plain black domino mask her Beware The Batman counterpart did. Here's hoping she joins Team Arrow, because we need fresh blood.

 

Just so I'm clear . . . Malcolm was in the cliffhanger with the others, right? Were they chained down? Because if I was there, and Ollie had elected to stick with the script that faithfully, my last action in this world would be to kick Malcolm in the balls until they become pulverized. It's disappointing to see that he's such a shitweasel .-- worse than Ra's -- because John Barrowman shouldn't be playing shitweasels.

 

Anybody else think "Atomic Knight" works better for Ray's battlesuit than just "ATOM"? I thought he was okay, and I'm a few days removed from seeing the far superior Iron Man in action.

 

Obvious question in regards to next week's spoiler-tinged teaser:

Is there any outcome that would make more sense than Barry coming in to wipe out the LoA and Ra's in about a minute's time?

 

Do crock pots work on open flames? If so, that's what I'd give Ib'n al Guhl and Nyssa. Hard to imagine stovetops at Nanda Parbat.

[tennisgurl]

Yeah, I don't understand what exactly the deal is with Dig. He knows Oliver is working Ras, he knows that he kidnapped Lyla because he knew she could handle herself, but he acts like this is so unforgivable? I mean, its really bad, but he should have more faith in Oliver after everything they've been through. 

 

Not that Oliver is doing everything right either. He REALLY needs to let his team in on whats going on, even if its covert. The communication here is just a mess in general. 

 

Can we move Nyssa and Katana into their own spin off please? I bet it would be a 1000 times more fun than the last few episodes. 

[opus]

And this week, Im sitting on the couch questioning why Ras just isn't threatening/torturing Felicity? Honestly, I hope I am not losing my moral compass. .

You're writing for the bad guy. You're fine.

[blixie]

Yeah I get Diggle being mad, but not respect and trust shattering mad. He definitely is entitled to beat the hell out of Oliver a few times, but Dig you literally  just did the same thing to to Oliver with Roy, your wife and child are actually fine. Melodrama just isn't Dig's style, and this feels melodramatic.

[Delphi]

I agree that much of the season doesn't make sense. Like the destruction of Starling.

But we've seen Maseo slip from Sarab into his old life. I'd think of it as dissociative personalities. Sometimes, during crisis, the old him would bubble to the surface but just like boiling water it's just bubbles, it can't stay forever.

[Chaser]

I watched the Felicity/Diggle/Tatsu scenes. I don't want to waste time on the stupidity of the LOA storyline.

 

My favorite part was Felicity/Tablet. OTP right there. Old School Felicity. Also the line about not knowing Tatsu. Old School. Loved it.

 

Still not a fan of the Canary Cry. She looks stupid just screaming there, but at least they remembered the ear plugs. 

 

The stunt doubles were out in force for that ''epic' fight scene. I think KC needs a new stunt double to be honest. I'm really not impressed with her. The best part of that fight was Tatsu. I love how deliberate the actress' movements where. You knew she could fuck you up before she even started swinging that sword. Caity and Katrina have that too.

 

I don't think Oliver has ever been so stupid. Diggle's reaction to the kidnapping was out of whack, they should have made it about Oliver trusting Malcolm over them. That's such bullshit right there. Seriously. Bad actors or not, how do you do that??

 

Also, Felicity gets to say I Told You So. Love that. 

 

Sidenote: I love snarky Felicity and Malcolm, but I'm kinda sad JB didn't get to play a good guy because he and Emily work really well together.

 

Agree that Team Arrow going back and forth on Oliver is just poor writing. I don't understand it.

 

Ray didn't annoy me this episode. Remove Raylicity and he is much more enjoyable. I liked that she thought of insurance.

[statsgirl]

I understand Diggle being mad but taking Lyla was the lesser of two evils. When I was taking a self-defense course, we were told that if we were holding a baby and had to fight back, drop the baby and fight. Babies can survive being left alone in a crib for a couple of hours; harder to survive being kidnapped.

 

They really did a number on Olicity here -- if Felicity forgives Oliver she's a wimp; if she doesn't she's a bitch.

[nksarmi]

Yeah I get Diggle being mad, but not respect and trust shattering mad. He definitely is entitled to beat the hell out of Oliver a few times, but Dig you literally  just did the same thing to to Oliver with Roy, your wife and child are actually fine. Melodrama just isn't Dig's style, and this feels melodramatic.

But Roy is a grown man who made his own choice. Lyla didn't make a choice and baby Sara was very vulnerable.  Diggle likely could have forgiven Oliver kidnapping HIM better than what he actually did.  Frankly, I think brainwashing would have made it easier to forgive.

 

And when someone messes with your kid, you don't give that person trust back very easily. 

[apinknightmare]

I think if you sub in Diggle being pissed about Sara being left alone for Lyla being taken - the anger makes more sense.  Yes Lyla can take care of herself, but baby Sara can't.  And while Diggle loves the hell out of his kickass wife, the fact that he failed to keep Lyla and Sara safe from his former best friend/brother has to be a huge hit for him - something that wouldn't be easy to process or forgive.  Then for him to find out just a day or two later that his friend was faking it and targeted his wife and left his baby girl unattended all because he had to play some con?  I think Diggle should only be more angry - not less.  Diggle has good reason not to ever trust Oliver again.

 

Sorry, I disagree. I'm not saying Diggle shouldn't be angry at all, I just find his level of anger jarring, and I think that three years of friendship should mean more than Diggle writing him off for good. Oliver made a calculated risk to screw with the one person he knew could take it in order to prove his allegiance to Ra's, probably hoping it would prevent him from having to do more, and he did it in the blandest way possible. 

[nksarmi]

I understand Diggle being mad but taking Lyla was the lesser of two evils. When I was taking a self-defense course, we were told that if we were holding a baby and had to fight back, drop the baby and fight. Babies can survive being left alone in a crib for a couple of hours; harder to survive being kidnapped.

 

They really did a number on Olicity here -- if Felicity forgives Oliver she's a wimp; if she doesn't she's a bitch.

Oliver attacked Diggle's family because he knew Diggle would do anything to get them back.  He couldn't take Felicity - even though Ray would have contacted the team to make sure they'd get her back - because that would show his weakness.  He couldn't take Laurel because he wasn't sure she mattered enough to any of them to make the trade.  He could have taken Diggle (which Diggle could have forgiven) but maybe showing four women rescuing a man was a bit too much girl power for the show?

 

At any rate, Oliver attacked at the weakest point knowing exactly what he was doing.  He knows what he sacrificed and he should know how much it will take to earn that trust back.  Frankly, if I was in Diggle's shoes - I'd help save the city, but I'd never speak to Oliver again after that.

 

apinknightmare - I get what you are saying until I put my mom hat on and then I think Diggle is totally justified.

Edited May 7, 2015 by nksarmi

[KenyaJ]

Enjoyed Felicity this episode for all the range of emotions & reactions shown. The Frisbee was classic. Only complaint is who signs paperwork & doesn't read it? 

 

Me. And I'm a lawyer who's spent a considerable amount of time combing through contracts to find loopholes for my clients. But I'm terrible, terrible about reading paperwork before I sign it, if I don't already know it's something important. Ray didn't indicate his papers were at all important, so I give Felicity a pass, because when it comes to this, she is me, LOL.

[wingster55]

I'm guessing Oliver has some plan to save them all...but man would I love it if Thea randomly saved all there asses. 

 

(Also I'm worried she won't be in the finale much, if at all) 

[quarks]

Proving once again that it's best to go in with low expectations, I ended up enjoying this one.  I mean, sure, much of it made no sense, and I'm pretty sure I wasn't supposed to respond to the airplane bit by laughing so hard my housemate thought for a moment I was watching a different show, but, enjoyment is enjoyment.

 

Good things:

 

1. Tatsu! Dispensing wisdom, looking awesome, coolly killing her husband but kindly singing a lullaby as a nice death song. SNIFFLE.  And then calmly telling Ra's that her husband was the traitor. You go, Tatsu!  (Can we keep her?)

 

2. Nyssa, romantically trying to stab Oliver at the altar. I'm on your side there, Nyssa. Also, fabulous choices of outfits tonight. Just fabulous.

 

3. I'm surprised to be typing this, but the Ray/Felicity scene was actually well done. 

 

4. Roy gave Thea his mask, awww. And they got a nice sex scene for a goodbye bit, double awwwww.

 

5. More Green Lantern Easter Eggs! The show's just toying with me now, I know, but, GREEN LANTERN!

 

6. Love that this ended with everyone except Oliver in full agreement that Malcolm is still the worst.  Probably the only thing where Ra's and I agreed all episode.

 

7. Felicity/Diggle dying together. That was sweet.

 

8. The cuts between Oliver at the wedding and Felicity mostly dying. Never accuse this show of subtlety.

 

9.  Ok, sure, I have my doubts that assassins as inept as most of the LoA dudes have been this season could actually take down a guy with a machine gun, a guy with a robot suit, and Tatsu, and of course it was interrupted by the exploding plane, but APART FROM ALL THAT, that really was an epic fight scene. And Felicity had a moment of thinking that she'd taken someone down with her tablet, heh.

 

10. The flashbacks were a bit more coherent this time around. Even more depressing, but coherent.

 

11. I did laugh when Malcolm was all "Oliver trusted me because you guys are terrible liars!"

 

12. And also liked the twist that Oliver's refusal/inability to talk about the past caught up with him in the form of no one initially believing Tatsu.

 

13. Amell's face when Oliver had to tell Felicity he was marrying Nyssa. I laughed.

 

14. And yeah, this was a fast paced episode - but for once, a lot of the pacing made sense: of course Ra's isn't going to let Oliver and Diggle talk everything out.

 

Questionable things:

 

1. Back over on TWOP last season, we reacted to the Arrow producers claim that no, no, Arrow wasn't a soap opera, absolutely not, by comparing Arrow to General Hospital and Dynasty.  And what does this show do the very next season? Leave all of the cast members lying dead in a heap, Dynasty style. YAY US.

 

(Also, secret twin! Forced marriage! This show seriously could not have gotten more soapy this season if it had been the game plan all along.)

 

2. Ray, maybe you should hand over your company to someone who does read the papers she signs, even when she's distracted by city wide viruses and her boyfriend of sorts going evil.  Just saying.

 

3. Roy, I get it, but could the men on both shows stop deciding that they know what's best for the women they love? Looking right at you Barry, Oliver, Tommy and now Roy.  Learn from Diggle.

 

4. Why are the flashbacks on this show so focused on the economy of China? Find another economy to attack.  China's big. It will survive this.

 

5. Oliver, it's very heroic and sweet of you to give up everything in your life just to take down the LoA, but maybe warning your teammates that was the plan would have been helpful, especially just in case you ended up needing them which SPOILER you did.  Oh Oliver.

 

6. And on a related note, Oliver, it's great to demand that your team just trust you, but that might be just a tad easier for them to do if you hadn't teamed up with Malcolm.

 

7. Ok, kudos to the show for giving Oliver an actual, plot related reason for going along with this marriage - especially given that he'd just given Ra's even more reason to be suspicious. Minus several hundred points for a) Ra's still going along with this even though he has really good reasons not to trust Oliver right now and even better reasons not to trust Nyssa and no reason whatsoever to think that this marriage is going to make either Nyssa or Oliver more loyal (in fact Nyssa seems to be even angrier, and I'm on her side here) b) not giving Nyssa any similar motivation, which makes her completely coerced into this marriage, which means c) yes, the show just forced a lesbian woman to marry her lover's ex-boyfriend, which....auugh.  Yes, I know that Ra's is evil and we are not supposed to be cheering him on here, but that doesn't make any of this make sense or be less irritating.

 

Bad things:

 

1. Atom and the plane.  Even apart from me falling over laughing, and the obviousness of the Iron Man ripoff, so many questions: 1) assuming that this is the LoA's main transportation, how exactly have they been squeaking a fighter jet across what is presumably U.S., Chinese and Russian airspace?  (Unless my theory that the LoA is actually in Oregon or Wyoming is correct, and even then?)  2) Did Ray fly in the suit all the way from Starling City, and if so, how exactly did he go to the bathroom?  Or is this just more proof that the LoA is in Wyoming? 3) You are trying to keep an AIRBORNE VIRUS from spreading. Do you a) knock apart the plane that is holding said virus WHILE THE PLANE IS STILL IN THE AIR so the virus can go anywhere, or b) NOT DO THAT.

 

Beyond that, this was yet another scene where Ray/Atom feels like he belongs on a totally different show. You've got forced marriages, sword fights, people chained up in dungeons - and Atom flying through a plane. Sigh.

 

On the bright side, that scene did give me hope that the spinoff is going to be gloriously ridiculous, so let's focus on that.

 

2. Ra's, trying once again to make everyone think he's a secret romantic. Stop this, Ra's. 

 

3. Ra's telling Nyssa that she would have Oliver's baby. Ugh, show. Ugh.

 

4. Since when do the League of Assassins have airtight rooms?

 

5. And oh, the Diggle and Oliver bromance is (temporarily) at an end. Not that I'm sniffling or anything about this. Really.

 

And now, Laurel

 

This episode really didn't know what to do with her. Which isn't unusual with Laurel, but really stood out in the second half of the episode, after her fight scene, when not just the plot, but the camera, moved off her. The camera spent more time on Ray, and gave everyone else, even Ray, a better reason to go to Nanda Parbat - some sort of speech or conversation, something, than it gave her. She was just part of the Team Arrow flipflopping, and even in the dungeon scenes, Ray, Tatsu, Diggle, Felicity and Malcolm all had more to do. Plus:

 

Number of times Laurel fails as a vigilante this episode:  1. Needing to have Malcolm save her, 2, Pausing during a middle of an epic fight sequence, while one of her allies is off killing her husband and another guy is fighting a plane in a robot suit, to tell Malcolm that she wouldn't have bothered to save him like THANKS LAUREL, YES, LET'S FOCUS ON THIS JUST NOW.  Made worse when it turned out that they had plenty of time in the dungeon to discuss this sort of stuff.

[dtissagirl]

I'm probably gonna be wrong, but I kinda thought Malcolm blabbing to Ra's that Oliver is playing him was still part of the plan. So that Malcolm would be killed by the fake virus along with the others, and not get the ~special death treatment~ that Ra's was planning for Malcolm.

Edited May 7, 2015 by dancingnancy

[quarks]

LoA weddings are conducted in English? Whatever. I want that hour of my life back.

 

 

See, I keep TELLING all of you, the League of Assassins is actually in Oregon! Or Wyoming!

[apinknightmare]

I'm guessing Oliver has some plan to save them all...but man would I love it if Thea randomly saved all there asses. 

 

(Also I'm worried she won't be in the finale much, if at all) 

 

Since they're going back to Starling to destroy the place again and Roy gave her his man blessing to be a hero, I'm sure she'll play a part. 

[calliope1975]

I've been watching Bates Motel to cheer myself up.  Seriously, a show about psycho killer Norman Bates has more happiness than Arrow at the moment.  There's even a very cute couple to ship and everything.  

 

Are Dylemma not the cutest? Yes, there's a problem when the guy who's a product of incest, and has an unhinged brother who goes on to become a crazy killer who runs a hotel is more heroic than Oliver Freakin' Queen.

 

Guys, what are you talking about? That was a great episode. I mean, it seemed a bit short at around 20 minutes, but gotta fit those ads in. Okay, not really, but that's about how long it took me to watch it as I skipped all the parts I had no interest in putting in my brain. Wedding? What wedding? Didn't see it, didn't happen.

 

EBR looked great this episode. I liked that cropped sweater, long skirt look. She's adorable. 

 

I have no idea what any of Maseo's motivations were. He helped Oliver, remembered his son, then tries to kill his wife. What? Too bad, they could have been a badass, crime fighting, power couple. 

 

I enjoyed Malcolm, and his snark with Felicity is the best. I almost (but only almost) wish he'd stick around just so they could continue to antagonize each other. 

 

Thea and Roy were adorable if not a bit pointless. I think losing Roy is a huge mistake, but this show's not known for thinking ahead. At least, he's not dead. 

 

As I thought, I'm not happy with the Oliver/Diggle rift. If it's over thinking he left them to die, then yeah, that's a pretty shitty thing to do, but otherwise, I think a nice left hook should cover it.

[Actionmage]

because John Barrowman shouldn't be playing shitweasels.

 

I so need to make this a cross-stitch pattern! 

 

So was anyone else thinking that Ra's was just going to lop Malcolm's head off, regardless of the truth of his accusation? That Ra's was tired of giving The Magician rope to hang himself with? Okay.  It would have at least been unexpected and dramatic.

 

Then I remembered: It's Season 3 Arrow, the Season We Never Got Nice Things.

[apinknightmare]

After Nyssa tried to stab Oliver at the altar and she was looking at him, did anyone notice how she looked at him? Like she'd just figured out he might've pulled something off, or am I just imagining things? Maybe she was just impressed that he anticipated the stab and stopped it.

[Guest]

I know the big twist is supposed to be Diggle giving up on Oliver because of kidnapping Lyla but tbqh, leaving them in that cell thinking they're going to die like that is much, much worse.

 

I will be disappointed in Felicity if she forgives Oliver for that one.

 

I see it as a necessary evil. Horrible thing to do? Absolutely. But it's not like he doesn't have a plan in place. 

[apinknightmare]

I see it as a necessary evil. Horrible thing to do? Absolutely. But it's not like he doesn't have a plan in place. 

 

I agree. Why would she not forgive him? He looked right at her and asked her to trust him. It's terrible that she thought she was going to die,

but, you know, she didn't? And then he sends some one to get her and everyone else? 

[Delphi]

After Nyssa tried to stab Oliver at the altar and she was looking at him, did anyone notice how she looked at him? Like she'd just figured out he might've pulled something off, or am I just imagining things? Maybe she was just impressed that he anticipated the stab and stopped it.

I got the impression that Nyssa has been in on this since it happened. She's here a great actress. ORiginally I thought the blade was for her then ra's but now I think she's playing a part. She stole the virus, she's grieving Sara and she's been fighting the demons head. I think Nyssa tHinks Ra's has gone over the top and is working to bring him down.

Eta: I'm also now convinced that Ra's was behind Sara's death.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Delphi