S07.E04: The Art Of Being A Cougar

[ScoobieDoobs]

London versus a dinner are apples and oranges in my opinion. I have friends of friends in my social circle that I a don't know but would invite to a birthday party to get to know them doesn't mean I will invite them on an international trip. Also, other than the housewives (plus hanger ons) and Frederick and his husband the only other guests at the party appeared to be B 's assistant and one other dude. This wasn't a random thrown togethe and I think that was what Heather was referencing without breaking the fact that these parties are thrown together by Bravo. B acting like Kristen and Dorinda were just random people she didn't know and not people on a cast of a show she was filming was ludicrous.

 

Idk, I think B is full of crap yet again.  I was giving her credit for her effort to avoid fake stuff (seemingly) & to be "organic".  I got the distinct impression this birthday party was a setup for the show.  Would she really be inviting ANY of these people to her birthday party?  Really?  She just met Heather & Carole.  She still thinks Lu is a snake.  She was indifferent to Moaner & seemed to invite her spontaneously.  

 

I got the impression B hasn't seen Sonja in years -- probably since she was last on the show, given the mean updates Heather & Lu seemed so eager to tell B about Sonja.  She certainly didn't seem thrilled about Sonja's hustler date & his roommate/boyfriend being there.  Anyhoo, my take on this whole b'day party was that it was just some fake setup for the show.  So why not invite Kristen & Dorinda?  To me, the biggest clue the party was fake was that she had none of her real friends there & she didn't have her boyfriend there either.

 

Is that a real rule or a bitter ass Countess rule? And by tweeting THAT, LuAnn makes it seem that this is the issue and not that she's mad that this guy who once dated her niece is now dating Carole. I can only hope that LuAnn's niece has moved on otherwise I'm going to start thinking that the girl is still pining away for this guy, and LuAnn has taken up her niece's cause as though it were own.

 

 

OK, any theories here on why Lu is so bugged that Carole is with this guy?  Wtf does it have anything to do with Lu?  It's none of her business.  Um, is she jelly?  Me thinks so.  Pea green jelly.  The young guys with Sonja & Lu looked like sleazy characters, whereas Adam seems like a very sweet nice guy.

 

One thing Bethenny did in this ep that really bugged the hell outta me, was passing judgement on Dorinda's phone.  First off, I thought it was beyond rude of Bethenny to grab Dorinda's phone.  I'd NEVER allow anyone to do that to my phone.  And I don't even have anything worth protecting or that I wouldn't want anyone to see on my phone.  I just think it's an exceptional invasion of privacy.  How could she do that?  Sheesh!  

 

And then this judgement on not having the latest phone & that insulting shit about her phone being from 1937?  Ugh.  There are a lot of people out there -- and count me as one of 'em -- who don't given a fuck about having the very latest smartphone.  So on behalf of all of us, we give you a very big fuck you, Bethenny.

 

Wow, it's not Bethenny's bitchery that's bugging me so much.  It's her thoughtlessness & insensitivity.  Seems much worse to me than anything I've seen from Moaner -- at least lately.  Ah, maybe divorcee Moaner is a kinder & gentler Moaner?  Guess we'll see bout that.

 

But I don't agree with that caller on WWHL who said she had "Bethenny fatigue".  Sure, I might be bugged by her, but I'm not feeling that way.  Not yet.  I agreed with Sonja.  I still think she's invigorating the show.  Anyone see the previews for next ep?  B's reactions to Sonja's clothing line, which we know, of course, will never happen, look absolutely hilarious.  I don't wanna miss it.

Edited April 30, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[jaync]



Add in Heather's need to involve herself in everyone's business and Bethenny's bitter, frustrated inability to tolerate anything from anyone at all due to the pressures of work and her personal life, and ... hehe it should be good. 

Is that Beth's excuse for her behavior? Because many people have work and personal pressures, but they manage not to be dickholes.

 



What a professional. Jeeez.

Yeah, she really should just fucking kill herself, already.

 

B's reactions to Sonja's clothing line, which we know, of course, will never happen, look absolutely hilarious.

I'm looking forward to Beth getting shut down by that woman who's working with Sonja.

Edited April 30, 2015 by jaync

[Lablover27]

I once saw Tamra (RHOC) and called her Tamballs.

 

I'm totally going to try to catch BeTHINey and yell "Beth, Beth, Beth, give me some meth, Beth, Beth, Beth I'm-out- of- Arrowhead-water-and-my dog -needs some Skinny Girl water STAT - he's so fat!  Beth, Beth, Beth.."  Too much?  Stop at Meth right?  But calling her Beth would make my day.

 

Beth, you make me want to take a nap.  And not a fake one, a real one. Ugh, exhausting.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Lablover27

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

So Luann knocks Carole for dating the help, buuuuuut it was ok for her niece to date the help? Lol

[SFoster21]

I wish I could analyze it, but I can't. Sonja and Carole are tacky and silly with men. LuAnn isn't.

[Ellee]

So Luann knocks Carole for dating the help, buuuuuut it was ok for her niece to date the help? Lol

Yep. The way of the HWs. :D

Shhhhh....don't tell anyone....LuLu had plans to 'pirate' him away from her niece.... :-)

[ryebread]

I think I like Dorinda but when she gets into these confrontations with her boyfriend, I kind of drift off.  I tend to do that when the conversation is kind of illogical.  I don't know if that's the right word but I have these moments of what are they talking about?  Maybe it's just me.

 

I think John thinks she's being illogical.  His reaction when she's gone off looks as if he can't believe she's acting so out of character.  Like, he's thinking in his head, "What the hell?  We've butted horns before but now you're just acting illogical.  But I'm a good sport. I love you, this isn't the norm and the cameras are rolling so okaaaaaaay...."  Dori just needs to let John in on the joke. 

 

Or he should cut her loose.  I don't dislike him and think he'd have no problem finding someone who doesn't talk to him like she does.  He should take better care of himself but I think he's a good catch. 

[ryebread]

Idk, I think B is full of crap yet again.  I was giving her credit for her effort to avoid fake stuff (seemingly) & to be "organic".  I got the distinct impression this birthday party was a setup for the show.  Would she really be inviting ANY of these people to her birthday party?  Really?  

 

Do people really throw themselves birthday parties?  I personally don't know anyone who ever has.  Even people we know with no family.  I can almost imagine if I were single with no family, and no one remembered, calling a friend and saying, "Cmon.  I need a drink for my birthday."  But to reserve a restaurant and actuallyncall people to invite them to my birthday party?  I'll admit, my social circle isn't huge so that's why I'm sincerely wondering if this is often done.

[AnnaL]

Having a more rounded life that includes a husband/partner/children was something Bethenny claimed she wanted and yes, I do think having a marriage and kids does make a person more well rounded, IMO.

 

Bethenny's entire SG line success is a direct result of being on this show and being the most popular HW on the show.  She is a hustler, no taking that from her but Heather did it without the show, from the ground up. And even though Heather's business is not at Bethenny's level, yet, she has done it without the backing of TV fans willing to buy any/all that their favorite HW pushes.

 

 

While I happen to agree with you about the fact that Bethenny wanted it all, who doesn't? , I also believe that at the core this has always bothered me. Somehow in our society divorce still equals failure and marriage equals success.  The examples of a Ramona living a lie for so many years do not make one iota of difference it seems.

 

Business men are judged based on their proffesional acomplishments, it is sort of stated that a succesful business man must be smart, driven and a great catch even if they are the worse jerks in the world. They are admired.

 

Business women not only have to be extremely accomplished, but they also have to be sweet and demure as to not rub the wrong feathers and be protrayed as a bitch, they have to be compassionate and caring as to give the right image, they have to have a well rounded family or their accomplishments mean nothing. WTF?

 

Bethenny does have a family, she has a daughter that means the world to her, just because she is divorced that makes her an incomplete woman or not well rounded? I am glad nobody told me that few years ago when I was going through an excrutiating divorce, I am happy my friends probably hid their sorrow over my shattered life, I am happy that my parents didn't alow to think my life was over.

 

I was more happy the three years that I was divorced than the 10 years that I was married , how is that possible? Maybe I am just lucky and didn't realize that I was an incomplete person by daring to think that my family was just my children and I.  Maybe Bethenny is just fine with being with her daughter instead of having to deal with someone like Jason.

 

Bethenny's SG line was only possible because of her popularity? I beg to disagree, there has been many, many housewives just as popular if not more than Bethenny, were are their millions? were are the empires they have built? How about Teresa and her hordes of fanatics, how about the most popular one LisaV, except for her new sangria and a new opened restaurant, where is her BEAM deal? how about Nene during her first three seasons when she was wildly popular? how about every other Bravo HW who has signed for this show with the idea of getting a platform for their wares, has any of them had any remarkable success?  It seems to me that if all a person needed was to be a Bravo HW and be popular we would have had a lot more stories of success than what we actually have,

 

To deny Bethenny's business acumen just because her marriage didn't work is petty IMO.

[sasha206]

Why is it, what with Carole presenting this image of being so uber cool and trendy and hip, that I find it difficult to believe she didn't realize a "gummy bear" was a club drug?  

 

Not to be ageist because lawdy I'm not that far behind Carole in age, but damn...How could she make it this far in life and not realize what she was taking?

 

Just admit it, Carole...you were out partying and wanted to get your freak on.  Too many women are legitimately surreptitiously drugged (and frequently assaulted) at clubs without you having to dumb yourself down and pretend you didn't know what you were willingly ingesting.

 

And, if you are that dumb, you really shouldn't be going to clubs unsupervised, or with Adam as your date, or maybe take a closer look at a "friend" who would slip you a mind-altering substance without a heads up as to what it would do to you.

 

 

I felt second-hand embarrassment listening to that story and then her talking heads.  My 13 year-old sounds much more mature than Carole.  And that face is so full of fillers.  No man would pay attention to her w/o the tangential Kennedy connection.  

[pbutler111]

I am in no way defending Beth because I've loathed her since season one, but I agree with your post.  Yes, she'll slap her logo on anything but girl knows how to hustle and make a buck. I don't think she cares if Bravo was the spring board to her success...she's hit the jackpot and she's the sort that never looks back as she claws her way to the top.

Do I think Heather is a happier person than Beth?  Seems to be.  Do I think she's a smarter or better business person than Beth?  Not by a long shot.

 

You understand that her name is Bethenny, right?

[sasha206]

Dorinda's daughter's eyebrows.... I don't know if I can stare at those giant caterpillars all season. Without Peter Gallagher's face under them, it's just disconcerting.

 

Amen!  She looks completely ridiculous.

 

And what's up with Kristin's face?  She looks different.  Maybe it's the face full of heavy make-up that is distracting me.

[ryebread]





Yeah, she really should just fucking kill herself, already.

 

We're not in Beverly Hills anymore, Toto. LOL  I don't think anyone is hoping for Carole to off herself.

 

I agree with you about the original post you're referring to about her throwing up in the pedicab being unprofessional.  What she does while she's off the clock is her own business.  But she's clearly not ashamed or embarrassed about it so no need to worry about her taking her own life. What *is* unprofessional is how she gushed over it and the comment she made about how men like their women 'vulnerable' especially when they're throwing up.   

 

She's very lucky she wasn't photographed puking on her date's shoes.  Makes me think of papp pictures of stumbling Taylor and Brandi, minus the tampon string.  She's lucky. Very.

[sasha206]

I got the impression that the 2 guys/kids with Sonja were gay. The way they kept looking at each other and how closely they sat to each other at the table looked/read more than just friends IMO.

 

 

Agreed.  

I agree, she does look really good.  And she can date whoever she wants.  It's just that she's acting like such a dimwit with this young guy.  Is she dumbing herself down just to get a young guy?  Really icky to me, if that's what she's doing.  I don't know if she is, but I get that impression.

 

I think Carole looks a tad bit better than last season, but her face is full of fillers and she's so skinny.  I really don't think many younger men would be interested in her w/o her Kennedy mystique and TV show.  They might sleep with her but I don't think they'd stick around.

[Beden]

 

Do people really throw themselves birthday parties?  I personally don't know anyone who ever has.  Even people we know with no family.

I know someone who did, actually. She was upset that no one had arranged a b'day party for her (it was in the planning stages and she knew this--what can I say? She's an idiot) so she went ahead and arranged her own party on a day no one could make it due to having lives of their own. Since she had her own sparsely attended party the one in the planning stages was called off with shrugs; she's still pissed about that.

 

Of course, Bethenny had nothing to do with this 'party' since it was obviously scripted and arranged by the producers.

[Leroux]

To deny Bethenny's business acumen just because her marriage didn't work is petty IMO

 

You are not by yourself, I have always thought that if all you need was to be popular then we would have had many more stories of financial success in the Bravo world but so far Bethenny seems to have been the exception to the rule, some Bravo HW have had some level of success but not one of them has had the level of success that Bethenny has had.

 

Another common myth is that Bethenny has had this incredible success due to her marriage to Jason , so I ask, how come Kim Z hasn't been able to capitalize on her husband Kroy who seems to be painted as the perfect husband? How about Jacqueline Laurita, her husband is also a well liked guy. How about Shanon from OC, the guy is likeable, so where are the million deals?

 

Following that logic I guess we can expect at some time now that Eileen will close a deal with a multinational company for many millions, right? she is wildly popular and well liked (deservingly so), she has a wonderful husband and a well rounded life, isn't that all that is needed to score in the big leagues of our financial world?

 

Of course like any person Bethenny would have been happier if her marriage would have worked but it didn't, just like more than 50% of marriages in the U.S. do not work. Marriages are very complicated and even the sweetest and patient women/men sometimes end up in divorce, so I do not understand the label of "incomplete" or "not well rounded" as if getting divorce was an indicative of your character or personality.

 

No wonder a lot of women end up being trapped in loveless and unhappy marriages for life, the fear of being labeled as a failure, as didn't try enough, as in maybe she was a bitch and couldn't make it work is somehow most times attached to women than men. Men divorce, create new families, move on, divorce again and it is all good, a women divorces, remarried, divorce again and then everytbody starts wondering, what is wrong with her? how come she can't make her marriage work? I call that BS.

 

Marriages work because two people care enough to make it work and the fail for the same reasons, it takes two to make it work and it takes two to make it fail, yet somehow women are judged harshly for it, the worst? the ones who judge women the worst are other women. SMH

[sasha206]

I'm currently watching this episode so pardon the thoughts I'm um, farting out...

 

Dorinda's daughter is 21 years-old. She's not 5 where it is better not to confuse.  Your daughter, at 21, should be handling you dating other people.  I suspect that the issue is more that Dorinda isn't that into John -- he's just a companion she gives her dry cleaning to and use.

 

Bethenney is a complete ass.  Her comments on "rebranding death" were so insenstive.  

[ryebread]

To deny Bethenny's business acumen just because her marriage didn't work is petty IMO.

 

Bethenny can suck it but I have to agree with you there.

 

For me, it's the words: more "well rounded" in the OP that are the sticky point for me.

 

My single, child free friend has a great career.  She spends any time she isn't working, doing things that have made her more fit, intellectual, more beautiful and a brilliant conversationalist. She's well versed in everything from sunscreen to special needs kids. (She's a teacher.)  She's far more well rounded than me even though I'm very happily married with a kid. The only thing it seems I'm well versed in is the Housewives. LOL

[talula]

When at dinner, Beth kept saying she doesn't know Kristen over and over to Heather, I wondered if that meant she didn't wish to know her, was not going to socialize with her this season WTH? Are we to deduce that besides Carole, Luann, Sonja and Ramona were told they could bring a plus one. In that case Ramona is friends with Dorinda so why didn't she bring her as her plus one? We know Sonja brought boytoys so why didn't Luann invite Kristen? The whole last minute party was a little shady...only her staff and her real estate agent were there? It's as if Beth was prejudice against women with significant others and did not want them at her party. Heather was there as a plus one and Dorinda and Kristen were left out. This speaks volumes about where Beth's head is at this time in her life. She doesn't want to socialize with those unlike her. She's showing a very stunted view on life IMO. Is she threatened by HW who are in love something she's not feeling lately?

[kitten59]

Damn. I was so hoping that Carol's horsey mug wouldn't return this season. Her wanna be hipster shtick is vomit inducing.

[motorcitymom65]

 

Bethenny's SG line was only possible because of her popularity? I beg to disagree, there has been many, many housewives just as popular if not more than Bethenny, were are their millions? were are the empires they have built? How about Teresa and her hordes of fanatics, how about the most popular one LisaV, except for her new sangria and a new opened restaurant, where is her BEAM deal? how about Nene during her first three seasons when she was wildly popular? how about every other Bravo HW who has signed for this show with the idea of getting a platform for their wares, has any of them had any remarkable success?  It seems to me that if all a person needed was to be a Bravo HW and be popular we would have had a lot more stories of success than what we actually have,

 

To deny Bethenny's business acumen just because her marriage didn't work is petty IMO.

I don't think that Bethenny's success means that all popular HW's are also going to be successful. I do believe, however, that it can tell the story of what a good idea, hustle, popularity, and exposure on this show can do. It really was the perfect storm for Bethenny and she was smart enough to take advantage of it. I have always liked Beth and would never want to take anything away from her success, but I also believe that had she not been on this show that her success probably wouldn't have reached the level that it did. Face it, Teresa did have huge success for a while based solely on this show. Even the hateful Brandi Glanville had huge success with her books. The difference is that both Teresa and Brandi are stupid and Beth is not. 

 

So far, Beth is acting as if she would rather be set on fire than interact with these women. It seems like she thinks she is above this show, and I believe the show is a huge part of the fact that she has any success at all. This makes her disdain look petty. It also seems like she is trying to make Heather look bad; to almost humilate her. I don't get this and it seems so different from the Beth that I fell in love with. Since her reactions are so far off the charts ridiculous, it is going to make people question what it is all about. Even if Heather is the most irritating/annoying person she has ever come across, she is being far more rude than the situation calls for. Why? Is it just for the purpose of being dramatic for the show? Or is it becasue for the first time Beth sees someone who is actually pretty much her equal? She is smart, has the family (I only mention that because Beth did the whole deal with getting married on TV and made her desire to "have it all" a big part of her story, not because it is necessary for happiness), she had found her success before she ever came on TV. She didn't need Bravo to be successful. There will always be a question as to whether Beth would have had her success without Bravo. I wonder if that bothers her? 

 

More than anything Bethenny is making me question the love I have always had for her. Were the rumors that she was hard to work with on her show true? I always took her side in most of the divorce stuff because I was rooting for her. Now I wonder what it must have been like to be married to her based on what I have seen this season. How did she really treat her in-laws? Did she snore when her husband, co-worker, or MIL brought up a topic that didn't interest her? She has always made a big deal about the fact that she is who she is. She is the same person on the show that she is in her real life. This was always her problem with Lu. If this is the way she treats people and interacts with them, I can understand why she seems to be so unhappy. 

[shoegal]

I felt second-hand embarrassment listening to that story and then her talking heads. My 13 year-old sounds much more mature than Carole. And that face is so full of fillers. No man would pay attention to her w/o the tangential Kennedy connection.

I am highly doubting that 29 year old Adam gives a rip about any Kennedy connections that Carole may have...JFK Jr. has been dead for 15 years, I think that most of the "Kennedy Mystique" died with him. Adam is of the age that Bravo and the Real Housewives probably carries more weight than being married to a Kennedy cousin.

Carole seems fun, she's smart, she's got a nice life and she seems mostly upbeat and happy, she has a lovely body and is perfectly attractive. She seems up for anything and DTF, lots of guys would pay attention to a woman like Carole....and they do! You go, Carole!

Edited April 30, 2015 by shoegal

[pbutler111]

I felt second-hand embarrassment listening to that story and then her talking heads.  My 13 year-old sounds much more mature than Carole.  And that face is so full of fillers.  No man would pay attention to her w/o the tangential Kennedy connection.

 

I haven't noticed that Carole's had anything done to her face. If anything, she's the most natural looking of all the housewives. And I've also never noticed her having any trouble attracting men.  In fact she wouldn't have "the tangential Kennedy connection" if a handsome prince, who himself had only a "tangential Kennedy connection," hadn't fallen in love with her and married her.  Apparently not all men share your narrow definition of attractiveness in women.

[Duke2801]

As for Carole and Sonja and their young mates...that's fine. But they seem so classless and tacky about it: I met you, I like you, let's go to bed. Color me old-fahsioned, but there's something UNattractive about women who come off as easy tramps. And, IMO they do.

 

Sonja - eh perhaps she gives off a "take me to bed or lose me forever" vibe. But please tell me what exactly did Carole say or do that indicated she wanted to "got to bed" with Adam right after meeting him? They are dating.  It wasn't a one-night stand or anything.

 

And even if it was... so what? I personally find slut-shaming far less attractive than a single gal who enjoys sex (as long as they're being safe and using protection!)  

 

I thought she was more attractive when she wasn't trying to be 20. And yes, her face is full of filler which is why at what, 50, it is lineless.

 

 

LOL do you honestly think that most of them don't use fillers?  I see the only exceptions in this crowd being maybe Kristen and Bethenny (she actually has lines in her face). 

Edited April 30, 2015 by Duke2801

[sasha206]

I am highly doubting that 29 year old Adam gives a rip about any Kennedy connections that Carole may have...JFK Jr. has been dead for 15 years, I think that most of the "Kennedy Mystique" died with him. Adam is of the age that Bravo and the Real Housewives probably carries more weight than being married to a Kennedy cousin.

Carole seems fun, she's smart, she's got a nice life and she seems mostly upbeat and happy, she has a lovely body and is perfectly attractive. She seems up for anything and DTF, lots of guys would pay attention to a woman like Carole....and they do! You go, Carole!

 

Taylor Swift dated a high school Kennedy.  The mystique is still there.  

 

Doesn't NYC have a shortage of men?  I'm sure there are tons of eligible women in NYC better looking and as fun as Carole.  But I do agree, screen time and RHONY is probably the bigger turn on. 

 

In my experience, the young men who are turned on by an older woman like myself are in it for uncomplicated sex and the idea that you are somewhat more wordly.  I think Carole's personality has regressed to the point where she's trying to act like she's 29.

 

But that's my not so humble opinion!

I haven't noticed that Carole's had anything done to her face. If anything, she's the most natural looking of all the housewives. And I've also never noticed her having any trouble attracting men.  In fact she wouldn't have "the tangential Kennedy connection" if a handsome prince, who himself had only a "tangential Kennedy connection," hadn't fallen in love with her and married her.  Apparently not all men share your narrow definition of attractiveness in women.

 

I thought she was more attractive when she wasn't trying to be 20. And yes, her face is full of filler which is why at what, 50, it is lineless.

 

Carole worked with her husband and they got to know each other in that capacity when she actually was a news producer.  They were both the same age.  Now she is chasing after 20 somethings, taking drugs in clubs (and like she didn't know what it was)  and then saying puking = vulnerable.  If that's attractive to you, your definition is much more open than mine is admittedly.  Yes, I know she was being her usual witty self, but seriously.  It's not attractive when a 50 something year old man chases 20 somethings in clubs, takes drugs and pukes.  It's not amusing.

Edited April 30, 2015 by sasha206

[shoegal]

Taylor Swift dated a high school Kennedy. The mystique is still there.

And Taylor Swift is far more well known and has infinitely more "mystique" than the Kennedy kid. The Kennedy kid got cred for dating Taylor Swift, not the other way around.

There is still definitely a "Kennedy mystique", but it's mostly people who were alive in the 60-70's, not exactly the under 30 crowd. The Kardashian generation if you will.

Edited April 30, 2015 by shoegal

[sasha206]

And Taylor Swift is far more well known and has infinitely more "mystique" than the Kennedy kid. The Kennedy kid got cred for dating Taylor Swift, not the other way around.

There is still definitely a "Kennedy mystique", but it's mostly people who were alive in the 60-70's, not exactly the under 30 crowd. The Kardashian generation if you will.

 

My point was that Taylor Swift, far more well known with more more mystique actually dated a high schooler.  Do you think she would've dated a high schooler that WASN'T a Kennedy.  The Kennedy mystique is strong enough that she tossed out the fact to date him.

 

I'm sure being in that circle opened many a door to friendships for Carole. 

 

That being said, I don't mean to diminish her actual self-worth.  She's a very witty and accomplished person.  But I do think that her ability to date 20 somethings is largely based on those connections as well as her RHONY celebrity.  I just don't think she's self-aware enough to realize it as she certainly comes across as someone who thinks she is much more attractive physically than she really is.  I mean, do you think Sonja's 20 somethings are in it for anything other than her fame?  

Edited April 30, 2015 by sasha206

[pbutler111]

Now she is chasing after 20 somethingsm taking drugs in clubs (and like she didn't know what it was)  and then finding the puking = vulnerable.  If that's attractive to you, your definition is much more open than mine is admittedly.

 

I think the difference is that you focus only on the negative, while people who actually get to know Carol IRL no doubt get a much more accurate and well-rounded picture of the whole woman.  I've never personally witnessed Carole "chasing after" anyone, of any age.  I believe the man she's currently dating asked her out, not the other way around.  And, as someone else pointed out, Carole is nice looking, youthful in her attitude, positive, intelligent and successful.  A lot of people find that kind of woman attractive, at any age.  I'm not sure why you feel so bitter about Carole having a good time, but I don't see anything wrong with it.  Of all the women on the show, Carole's the one I'd most like to hang out with, too.  It's not hard to imagine men would feel the same way about her.

I just don't think she's self-aware enough to realize it as she certainly comes across as someone who thinks she is much more attractive physically than she really is.

 

You've never read Carole's first book, have you?  You might be able to accuse her of not being a lot of things, but self-aware isn't one of them.

[sasha206]

I think the difference is that you focus only on the negative, while people who actually get to know Carol IRL no doubt get a much more accurate and well-rounded picture of the whole woman.  I've never personally witnessed Carole "chasing after" anyone, of any age.  I believe the man she's currently dating asked her out, not the other way around.  And, as someone else pointed out, Carole is nice looking, youthful in her attitude, positive, intelligent and successful.  A lot of people find that kind of woman attractive, at any age.  I'm not sure why you feel so bitter about Carole having a good time, but I don't see anything wrong with it.  Of all the women on the show, Carole's the one I'd most like to hang out with, too.  It's not hard to imagine men would feel the same way about her.

 

You do realize that we're all commenting on what we see on TV right?  You don't know her in real life any more than I do, so slamming fellow posters as being "bitter" and "narrow minded" seems silly to me.

 

I really don't care if she's dating a 29 year-old.   But does she have to revert to a 20 something and think it's cute?  That's what I'm "bitter" about.  Date whomever you want but be true to yourself.  Clubbing, taking gummie bears from a stranger sounds like a dumb thing for a 20 year-old to do, much less a 50 year-old.

 

I'm almost her age and if I wanted to date a 29 year-old I'd handle it in a much more mature fashion.  And I wouldn't give a rip about telling my friend about it.   The fact that she doesn't want to admit it to LuAnn tells me she has regressed to that of a 20 something in personality.

I think the difference is that you focus only on the negative, while people who actually get to know Carol IRL no doubt get a much more accurate and well-rounded picture of the whole woman.  I've never personally witnessed Carole "chasing after" anyone, of any age.  I believe the man she's currently dating asked her out, not the other way around.  And, as someone else pointed out, Carole is nice looking, youthful in her attitude, positive, intelligent and successful.  A lot of people find that kind of woman attractive, at any age.  I'm not sure why you feel so bitter about Carole having a good time, but I don't see anything wrong with it.  Of all the women on the show, Carole's the one I'd most like to hang out with, too.  It's not hard to imagine men would feel the same way about her.

 

 

 

You've never read Carole's first book, have you?  You might be able to accuse her of not being a lot of things, but self-aware isn't one of them.

 

Yes, I did read her book that she wrote years ago about a time in her life years ago.  I don't think she's self-aware in the present day.

 

I like Carole.  I'm sure she's fun to hang around.  I just think she's become a caricature of herself and she's trying so desperately to be cool that it's not cool anymore.  

 

Okay, I'm off the Carole topic.  Clearly there are some people that feel she's untouchable even though she's on a Reality TV show that is about as shallow as you can get.

Edited April 30, 2015 by sasha206

[zoeysmom]

You are not by yourself, I have always thought that if all you need was to be popular then we would have had many more stories of financial success in the Bravo world but so far Bethenny seems to have been the exception to the rule, some Bravo HW have had some level of success but not one of them has had the level of success that Bethenny has had.

 

Another common myth is that Bethenny has had this incredible success due to her marriage to Jason , so I ask, how come Kim Z hasn't been able to capitalize on her husband Kroy who seems to be painted as the perfect husband? How about Jacqueline Laurita, her husband is also a well liked guy. How about Shanon from OC, the guy is likeable, so where are the million deals?

 

Following that logic I guess we can expect at some time now that Eileen will close a deal with a multinational company for many millions, right? she is wildly popular and well liked (deservingly so), she has a wonderful husband and a well rounded life, isn't that all that is needed to score in the big leagues of our financial world?

 

Of course like any person Bethenny would have been happier if her marriage would have worked but it didn't, just like more than 50% of marriages in the U.S. do not work. Marriages are very complicated and even the sweetest and patient women/men sometimes end up in divorce, so I do not understand the label of "incomplete" or "not well rounded" as if getting divorce was an indicative of your character or personality.

 

No wonder a lot of women end up being trapped in loveless and unhappy marriages for life, the fear of being labeled as a failure, as didn't try enough, as in maybe she was a bitch and couldn't make it work is somehow most times attached to women than men. Men divorce, create new families, move on, divorce again and it is all good, a women divorces, remarried, divorce again and then everytbody starts wondering, what is wrong with her? how come she can't make her marriage work? I call that BS.

 

Marriages work because two people care enough to make it work and the fail for the same reasons, it takes two to make it work and it takes two to make it fail, yet somehow women are judged harshly for it, the worst? the ones who judge women the worst are other women. SMH

It goes back a few years but Bethenny did put it out there as having it all the fairy tale, the wedding, the spin-off, the liquor deal with the first company.  We will never know if her spin-off would have been about her dating if she would have had all the positive publicity that came with the wedding, the marriage and the baby.  So for now I am of the belief that meeting, getting pregnant and marrying Jason helped her  business.  Single Bethenny just seems miserable to me.  I was looking forward to her coming back and so far it is depressing watching her-climbing on a restaurant table-really pathetic.   

[QuinnM]

 

Single Bethenny just seems miserable to me.

Actually divorcing Bethenny seems miserable.  I wish this whole thing would end so we could see single Bethenny.

[ScoobieDoobs]

I am highly doubting that 29 year old Adam gives a rip about any Kennedy connections that Carole may have...JFK Jr. has been dead for 15 years, I think that most of the "Kennedy Mystique" died with him. Adam is of the age that Bravo and the Real Housewives probably carries more weight than being married to a Kennedy cousin.

 

Carole seems fun, she's smart, she's got a nice life and she seems mostly upbeat and happy, she has a lovely body and is perfectly attractive. She seems up for anything and DTF, lots of guys would pay attention to a woman like Carole....and they do! You go, Carole!

 

 

Yeah, I think Carole is just not coming across well this season.  I agree with this assessment of Carole, but this is not how she seems to me on the show, as I've been watching it .  Er, why?  Maybe she's trying too hard in her TH's?  She always gives a really smug look & laughs every time she says something.  Really annoying, off-putting habit Gretchen used to do.

 

As far as Adam goes?  He seems like a low-key kinda guy -- which doesn't really make for good reality show material.  We haven't heard much from him & he hasn't displayed much personality.  But he seems like a typical 29 year old guy & he's going out with Carole cuz he probably thinks she's fun & attractive & maybe that's about it.  I didn't get the impression Carole was focused on going for someone younger.  She just liked Adam & went for him.  Whatever.  I'm not interested so much in any of this.  I just don't care for the way she's acting so goofy.  Guess she thinks it's adorable.  Nope, not adorable, Carole.

 

Just as an aside, I've seen Carole a few times lately & I think she looks very attractive in person.  She looks a bit younger than her age, but not much.  What struck me about Carole, when I saw her, is she was always with a friend or 2 & was smiling.  Now that's the Carole I liked on the show (seems like a billion years ago) & I suspect that's who she really is -- friendly & attractive.  She sure ain't coming across that way this season.  Is she trying too hard or am I just over this forced, fakey, goofy, cutesy act she's putting on for the show?

 

In contrast to this, a good friend of mine lives a few blocks away from Bethenny's place in Tribeca & he used to see her all the time -- altho not as much lately.  He said EVERY time he saw Bethenny she was always alone, and she always walked very, very quickly & always had a miserable, angry look on her mug.  He also said she had kind of a shlumpy walk, where she clomps her heels down really, really hard.  Funny thing to notice, but he said you can hear Bethenny walking from blocks away.  Hmmm.

 

So is throwing yourself a birthday party after the age of 12, kind of a loser thing to do -- or just more forced setup crapola Satan Andy uses on his shows?

Edited April 30, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[izabella]

Business men are judged based on their proffesional acomplishments, it is sort of stated that a succesful business man must be smart, driven and a great catch even if they are the worse jerks in the world. They are admired.

 

Business women not only have to be extremely accomplished, but they also have to be sweet and demure as to not rub the wrong feathers and be protrayed as a bitch, they have to be compassionate and caring as to give the right image, they have to have a well rounded family or their accomplishments mean nothing. WTF?

 

Bethenny does have a family, she has a daughter that means the world to her, just because she is divorced that makes her an incomplete woman or not well rounded? I am glad nobody told me that few years ago when I was going through an excrutiating divorce, I am happy my friends probably hid their sorrow over my shattered life, I am happy that my parents didn't alow to think my life was over.

 

I agree that there is a double standard when we judge men and women.  As a 47 year old woman who never married nor had kids, my immigrant family has given me plenty of shit over the years for not having a family despite my educational, professional and financial accomplishments.  "Husband and kids are a woman's destiny, and it's the saddest thing in the world for a woman never to marry and have kids!"  "You've been with your bf for years and years - when are you getting married and having kids, you can still adopt!"  That's what I grew up with, and have been beaten over the head with, so I get what you're saying!

 

However, I think we are equal opportunity snark here.  Josh Taekman has achieved enough financial success to support his own family and those of the people who work for him, but I don't think there is anyone here who thinks he's a great catch and admires him and doesn't consider him a jerk.  People were snarking on Mario for his wandering eye and cheating ways despite him being a seemingly "nice" person and a successful business man.  Dorinda's John is successful, but he's been taking flak for being himself. 

 

I think Beth is bringing this criticism on her head for not being well-rounded because she's 100% bitch and came into this season showing us nothing but her misery and bitchiness and complaining about everything, as well as overreacting to everything and everyone in a nasty way.

[sasha206]

Yeah, I think Carole is just not coming across well this season.  I agree with this assessment of Carole, but this is not how she seems to me on the show, as I've been watching it .  Er, why?  Maybe she's trying too hard in her TH's?  She always gives a really smug look & laughs every time she says something.  Really annoying, off-putting habit Gretchen used to do.

 

As far as Adam goes?  He seems like a low-key kinda guy -- which doesn't really make for good reality show material.  We haven't heard much from him & he hasn't displayed much personality.  But he seems like a typical 29 year old guy & he's going out with Carole cuz he probably thinks she's fun & attractive & maybe that's about it.  I didn't get the impression Carole was focused on going for someone younger.  She just liked Adam & went for him.  Whatever.  I'm not interested so much in any of this.  I just don't care for the way she's acting so goofy.  Guess she thinks it's adorable.  Nope, not adorable, Carole.

 

Just as an aside, i've seen Carole a few times lately & I think she looks very attractive in person.  She looks a bit younger than her age, but not much.  What struck me about Carole, when I saw her, is she was always with a friend or 2 & was smiling.  Now that's the Carole I liked on the show (seems like a billion years ago) & I suspect that's who she really is -- friendly & attractive.  She sure ain't coming across that way this season.  Is she trying to too hard or am I just over this goofy, cutesy act she's putting on for the show?

 

YES.  This is what I have been trying to convey although in a much rougher manner.

 

And it's not that I don't think Carole is attractive, I just think *she* thinks she's more attractive than she is.  Sonja is a handsome woman with a great figure and is certainly very fun to be around.  But I seriously don't think men are drawn to her w/o the Real Housewives and Morgn name.  Or for more than a quick lay.  And I'm sure I wouldn't be critiqued here by other posters when making that comment.

 

Of course, Carole has depth that Sonja doesn't.  But this year's vibe isn't projecting depth.  More like silly schoolgirl.

Edited April 30, 2015 by sasha206

[phoenix780]

I don't think  this show ever had the ratings to launch SkinnyGirl to where it went.  Plus, my mom knew about it back in the day, and she'd never watch one of these things.  The show helped, no doubt, but I credit Bethenney's hustle for most of the success.

 

I like Dorinda's daughter's eyebrows.  Don't know why, just do.  Also, I think Dorinda's using the kid as an excuse not to get close to a guy she doesn't like, maybe with good reason given that he was out at that club last episode.

 

Carole and her 29 year-old makes me want to see a gender-swapped version of the show.  I want to know how I'd react seeing an older man suggesting, for example, that he needs an emoji to help quickly communicate that he's screwing a younger woman.  I feel like it'd be gross in that case, but here it's like...am I supposed to throw out a "you go girl" or something?  

 

And the party/invites- I can sort of understand the argument that Bethenny should've invited everyone because they're all castmates.  But...there are 8 of them, she brought 5 plus another "Bravolebrity."  To me that feels sufficient.

 

I also wonder if there's some truth to her comments about how casual this was, and how she invited people.  They were all drinking and dancing, it's easy enough to imagine her asking the ones that were around her in that fun moment.  What I'm more curious about is...why didn't Carole or Heather suggest that Kristen come when they were invited?

[sasha206]

Carole and her 29 year-old makes me want to see a gender-swapped version of the show.  I want to know how I'd react seeing an older man suggesting, for example, that he needs an emoji to help quickly communicate that he's screwing a younger woman.  I feel like it'd be gross in that case, but here it's like...am I supposed to throw out a "you go girl" or something?  

 

 

Exactly. I made the same point.  A 50 year-old male taking gummy bears and then puking on his date wouldn't be viewed as cute. It would be viewed as gross.  

[sekay87]

I have to say that unlike most of the people here, I actually quite enjoy Dorinda. I really didn't blame her at all for being hard on John. First of all, it IS rude to take business calls when you're at lunch with your partner. I agree with her-don't meet up for lunch then. Just see her later when you don't have to take business calls. If it's not an emergency, hang up the damn phone. And for him to give her a hard time that he doesn't come before her daughter was kind of out of line. Yes, it was uncomfortable for her to lay into him, but he really shouldn't have even pushed that button knowing that Dorinda struggles with integrating the two of them into her life. I also think people need to cut her some slack with regards to her daughter. Hannah is a brat and speaks to Dorinda disrespectfully, but I also think it's normal for older children to struggle with their parents moving on after the death of a spouse that they knew to be their father. The fat jokes are snobby and out of line, but I'm sure if Dorinda DID date a younger, hotter guy Hannah would have an issue with that too. She's just looking for things to be wrong. Dorinda is just handling it the best way she knows how to, and I don't think anyone should fault her for that. The woman's not perfect, but so far I think she's a wonderful addition to the cast and I look forward to seeing her journey play out further.

[racked]

Or she's full of shit.  Yeah, I am going to have to go with that. 

Carole seems to be spewing out whatever she thinks will come across as cool, cute, or clever.  But to me she is coming across as shallow, flighty, and rather insincere.  I don't think she means much of what she says about stuff, and she is just trying to appear delightfully mod or casually sophisticated or something. Whatever you want to call it, it's not working for me.   

 

 

I also can't stand the way she laughs after all of her talking heads.  Seriously, ALL of them.  Like she has to remind us she is funny.  That she is being witty.  Sorry, I will be the judge of that, Carole.  And I am not finding you funny.  Especially not the catty little digs about Ramona never fitting into your dresses, not dating since the Berlin wall and getting phone numbers only because it was after midnight, among other things.  Hip chicks like you are pretending to be don't take potshots at other women that way. 

 

Go write your damn book already, too.  Vapid and irresponsible is not a cute look, Dear.  Not cute at all. 

 

I think I love you. And all of this. I guess I love to hate Carole though, because mocking her and seeing others do so brings me joy. Haha I feel zero shame in it and never will. 

Edited April 30, 2015 by racked

[Mozelle]

I felt second-hand embarrassment listening to that story and then her talking heads.  My 13 year-old sounds much more mature than Carole.  And that face is so full of fillers.  No man would pay attention to her w/o the tangential Kennedy connection.  

 

[insert confused puppy head tilt] I'm going to hazard a guess and say that by her late 20s, which is when she met Anthony Radziwill, Carole had had boyfriends. Which is to say that growing up in upstate NY and going to college in NY, way before any tangential Kennedy connection, guys were paying attention.

 

I'm actually laughing. It's crazy to me that somehow the ONLY reason any man (especially a younger man, i.e., of a different generation) would date Carole...is because her husband was cousins with JFK, Jr. Heh.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Mozelle

[sasha206]

[insert confused puppy head tilt] I'm going to hazard a guess and say that by her late 20s, which is when she met Anthony Radziwill, Carole had had boyfriends. Which is to that growing up in upstate NY and going to college in NY, way before any tangential Kennedy connection, guys were paying attention.

 

I'm actually laughing. It's crazy to me that somehow the ONLY reason any man (especially a younger man, i.e., of a different generation) would date Carole...is because her husband was cousins with JFK, Jr. Heh.

 

She's not a teenager anymore.  And maybe you haven't heard this before, but there ARE older people who become much more attractive to youthful attractive people because of their connections and being on TV.

 

Yes, she's not bad looking woman, but now that she's of a certain age, I'm pretty sure those connections are what is drawing the men more than her personality.

[selhars]

1) Carole is just having fun on this show. I think she's doing it for kicks....so to me, she comes of as childish sometimes. She can date younger men all she wants. But she doesn't have to be immature and childish about it. Or hypocritical, like saying men don't get interesting until 40, and then dating someone half her age. But she's got money, the show has put her in the mainstream spotlight...so what does she care about coming off as pathetic in some areas.

 

Carole's conversation with the two young roommates, about Jordache jeans was sad. CLEARLY she is NOT as hip as she thinks she is. Nor is she around too many young adults. IF she were she'd have known that CLEARLY young guys of their age wouldn't know squat about Jordache. Yes Carole that's how OLD you are...and how YOUNG THEY are. The entire exchange made you look desperate.

I think Carole's personality has regressed to the point where she's trying to act like she's 29.

 

^^ Thank you. You can date  someone who's 29 without acting like YOU are 29. She'll be 53 this summer. And I dont' know why so many people she looks that great. IF that's looking great for 52....yikes. She's thin, sure but IMO her face isn't aging THAT well....to warrant the raves about her looking great. One person's young and hip....is another's pathetic and sad.

There is still definitely a "Kennedy mystique", but it's mostly people who were alive in the 60-70's, not exactly the under 30 crowd.

 

I don't know why people think young adults below a certain age care about what is ancient history to them. People under 30 and certainly under 25....likely may not even know who the "Kennedys" are...let alone care about some mystique they have. I bet they can't even name one.

 

2) I was put off by Beth's (yes, I know her name is Bethenny) very quick, condescending comment to Dorinda at dinner. Dorinda was talking about likeing the dress, and the color coming back or being in vogue, and Beth said, "Oh, you know that much about it?" Excuse me? WTF? Dorinda just played it off. but is was VERY, VERY passive aggressive.

 

3) If the party was set up by producers, which I don't doubt it was. Then why didn't they make sure Kristen and Dorinda were "invited.' Perhaps to get some resentments smoldering?  Lord knows on ALL these shows we've seen myriad events where we know there's no reason for all the women to be there -- other than a set up event. So why didn't producers just do that with this party? Machinations?

Edited April 30, 2015 by selhars

[Mozelle]

She's not a teenager anymore.  And maybe you haven't heard this before, but there ARE older people who become much more attractive to youthful attractive people because of their connections and being on TV.

 

Yes, she's not bad looking woman, but now that she's of a certain age, I'm pretty sure those connections are what is drawing the men more than her personality.

 

I responded to your very certain "no man would..." comment. Carole wasn't a teenager when she met Anthony. She was in her late 20s. So, she dated men while in her 20s absent any Kennedy connection.

 

I also find it hard to believe that a 28/29 year old man today is concerned about any tangential Kennedy connection that someone may have. The Kennedys simply don't have that magesterial air that they had when tabloids were all about following JFK, Jr. and wanting to know what Carolyn Bessette-Kennedy was wearing back in the mid-90s. I think if there is still talk, it's coming from a very different generation (a generation that doesn't include the 29 year old man who Carole is dating).

Edited April 30, 2015 by Mozelle

[ScoobieDoobs]

I really don't care if she's dating a 29 year-old.   But does she have to revert to a 20 something and think it's cute?  That's what I'm "bitter" about.  Date whomever you want but be true to yourself.  Clubbing, taking gummie bears from a stranger sounds like a dumb thing for a 20 year-old to do, much less a 50 year-old.

 

I'm very familiar with the club scene here in NYC because I have a few good friends who are involved on the business side.  Now, if Carole is referring to the dance clubs I'm thinking of, then she would be completely out of place there.  Sorry, but no age-shaming involved here in the least.  There are very, very few people in these clubs over 30.  It's just the way it is.  You might see some guys (sleazebags looking to get young chicks) in their 30's & rarely in their 40's.  But women over 30 are just not there.  Guess they either get over this scene in their 20's or they just know better  And drugs are very, very, very prevalent in this scene.  Again, it just is the way this scene is.  Now, why a woman in her 50's would want any involvement with any of this was my original question.  Age shaming?  Er, what the what?  Still don't think so.

 

I can vaguely see Carole "exploring" the club scene because she wanted to experience it & maybe eventually write about it.  That's possible.  Now, the bar scene, on the other hand, is extremely different than the club scene I'm referring to above.  The bar scene would include places like the joint we saw in the last ep.  There's a zillion places like that, especially around Tribeca & Wall Street (& pretty much all around Manhattan) and I bet Lu must be like Norm in Cheers in every one of those joints.  Carole seems very different from Lu in this respect.  I don't get the impression at all she's cruising pick-up joints looking for men.  Doesn't matter really.  To each, his/her own.

 

Honestly, I'm still disturbed by Carole's story about the Gummi Bear.  Given that I've lost several friends due to drug overdoses, I have no sense of humor when it comes to hard-core drug usage.  I didn't even like the earlier comparisons on this thread to Kelly's reference to Gummy Bears, which we know was harmless.  Also, Carole's story reminded me of women getting slipped a date rape drug.  Nothing hilarious, funny or adorable about this story, Carole.  And Heather's wide-eyed, encouraging & laughing response to Carole while she was telling this story made me nauseous.  

 

I would think Carole might have said she regretted putting herself in such a vulnerable & dangerous position, where something terrible could have happened to her.  But nope, we didn't hear that from her.  All we saw was both Carole & Heather laughing their heads off over this.  It did seem very immature.  I thought they both acted like teenagers in that scene.  

 

Is it age shaming to expect women over 40 to exhibit some maturity, particularly about hard-core drug usage?  Not to me, at least.  Is this an example of Satan Andy once again showing middle-aged women at their worst?  Nope, I lay the blame for this one totally on Carole.  She seems to want to be seen as an immature, brainless nitwit.  OK then, Carole, if that is your goal, you are achieving it, hun.

Edited May 1, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[sasha206]

I responded to your very certain "no man would..." comment. Carole wasn't a teenager when she met Anthony. She was in her late 20s. So, she dated men while in her 20s absent any Kennedy connection.

 

I also find it hard to believe that a 28/29 year old man today is concerned about any tangential Kennedy connection. The Kennedys simply don't have that magesterial air that they had when tabloids were all about following JFK, Jr. and wanting to kow what Carolyn Bessett-Kennedy was wearing back in the mid-90s. I think if there is still talk, it's coming from a very different generation (a generation that doesn't include the 29 year old man who Carole is dating).

 

I was referring to the present day and the situation of her being 50 and dating 20 somethings.  EDITED TO ADD:  My "no man comment" was ridiculous I agree.  My first post was this and what I really meant:  "I really don't think many younger men would be interested in her w/o her Kennedy mystique and TV show.  They might sleep with her but I don't think they'd stick around."

 

And see my comment above about Taylor Swift dating a high school Kennedy.  Do you think she'd date ANY high schooler?  Dating someone in the Kennedy family gets you press and a worldly 29 year-old would likely know who the Kennedy's were and America's continual love affair with them.  

 

But okay, I'll give you that.  And I'll revise my comment to read:  I bet most youthful men dating her are impressed by her RHONY celebrity.  I say this is based on my experiences with friends who have dated younger men and what they really seem to be after.  For most, it's the uncomplicated sex part but not for any real companionship.  The ones that stick around are impressed by success and power that woman may have but eventually that fades and they date in their age range.

 

I'm very familiar with the club scene here in NYC because I have a few good friends who are involved on the business side.  Now, if Carole is referring to the dance clubs I'm thinking of, then she would be completely out of place there.  Sorry, but no age-shaming involved here in the least.  There are very, very few people in these clubs over 30.  It's just the way it is   You might see some guys (sleazebags looking to get young chicks) in their 30's & rarely in their 40's.  But women over 30 are just not there.  Guess they either get over this scene in their 20's or they just know better  And drugs are very, very, very prevalent in this scene.  Again, it just is the way this scene is.  Now, why a woman in her 50's would want any involvement with any of this was my original question.  Age shaming?  Er, what the what?  Still don't think so.

 

I can vaguely see Carole "exploring" the club scene because she wanted to experience it & maybe eventually write about it.  That's possible.  Now, the bar scene on the other hand, is extremely different than the club scene I'm referring to above,  The bar scene would include places like the joint we saw in the last ep.  There's a zillion places like that, especially around Tribeca & Wall Street (& all around Manhattan) and I bet Lu must be like Norm in Cheers in every one of those joints,  Carole seems very different from Lu in this respect.  I don't get the impression at all she's cruising pick-up joints looking for men.  Doesn't matter really.  To each, his/her own.

 

Honestly, I'm still disturbed by Carole's story about the Gummi Bear.  Given that I've lost several friends due to drug overdoses, I have no sense of humor when it comes to hard-core drug usage.  I didn't even like the earlier comparisons on this thread to Kelly's reference to Gummy Bears, which we know was harmless.  Also, Carole's story reminded me of women getting slipped a date rape drug.  Nothing hilarious, funny or adorable about this story, Carole.  And Heather's wide-eyed, encouraging & laughing response to Carole while she was telling this story made me nauseous.  

 

I would think Carole might have said she regretted putting herself in such a vulnerable & dangerous position, where something terrible could have happened to her.  But nope, we didn't hear that from her.  All we saw was both Carole & Heather laughing their heads off over this.  It did seem very immature.  I thought they both acted like teeneagers in that scene.  Is it age shaming to expect women over 40 to exhibit some maturity, particularly about hard-core drug usage?  Not to me, at least.  Is this an example of Satan Andy once again showing middle-aged women at their worst?  Nope, I lay the blame for this one totally on Carole.  She seems to want to be seen as an immature, brainless, nitwit.  OK, then Carole, if that is your goal, you are achieving it, hun.

 

I cosign all of this.  You summed up perfectly my issue with her.

Edited April 30, 2015 by sasha206

[shoegal]

My point was that Taylor Swift, far more well known with more more mystique actually dated a high schooler. Do you think she would've dated a high schooler that WASN'T a Kennedy. The Kennedy mystique is strong enough that she tossed out the fact to date him.

I'm sure being in that circle opened many a door to friendships for Carole.

That being said, I don't mean to diminish her actual self-worth. She's a very witty and accomplished person. But I do think that her ability to date 20 somethings is largely based on those connections as well as her RHONY celebrity. I just don't think she's self-aware enough to realize it as she certainly comes across as someone who thinks she is much more attractive physically than she really is. I mean, do you think Sonja's 20 somethings are in it for anything other than her fame?

Do I think Taylor Swift would have dated the kid if he wasn't a Kennedy? No, she probably would have never met him if he wasn't a Kennedy. Don't get me wrong, the Kennedy family is still a wealthy, powerful, name recognizable family, I'm just saying, the "Kennedy mystique" ain't what it used to be. If it were, the Kennedy kid would have gotten attention just for being a Kennedy, not for dating Taylor Swift. As far as I know, the kid wasn't heard from before and hasn't been heard from since, whereas you had media following JFK Jr.'s every move, just for existing.

Now, if Carole had married a Kennedy and was now Carole Kennedy, I'd say that might be a little different, but I don't think being married to a cousin of the Kennedy's 15 years ago, when everyone has been dead for that 15 years has the kind of power that is going to attract the Kennedy "mystique" for a generation who was in middle school when JFK Jr. died.

As far as Carole "regressing" to 29, considering she spent her 30's in hospitals, watching her husband get cut open and cut out piece by piece, wasting away and dying an agonizing death, then grieving his loss for many years, if Carole wants a do-over, I say more power to her!! Carole went through hell, if she wants to spend her fifties getting back to what she should have experienced 20 years ago, I'm all for it. Most people don't have to experience what she went through until they are in their 50's or 60's or if they are lucky even later.

Have fun, Carole! Mazel!

ETA: regarding the "club" Carole went to, IIRC, she said it was her friend's club, she probably went because of that connection (and it was Halloween!!) I did not get the impression that Carole is regularly going clubbing.

Edited April 30, 2015 by shoegal

[Duke2801]

Exactly. I made the same point.  A 50 year-old male taking gummy bears and then puking on his date wouldn't be viewed as cute. It would be viewed as gross.  

 

I haven't heard or read one person yet who has commented on what happened with Carole and Adam and the puking as "cute."   I like Carole, but found that story gross --- and I most definitely disagree with her assertion that men like it when women barf on them .... or whatever nonsense she was "spewing." 

 

Be prepared to be called "bitter" and criticized for deigning to think Carole is immature.  And God help you if you suggest that the young men are attracted to her for reasons other than her natural charm and sophistication.

 

 

Soooo basically we're not allowed to disagree with the characterization of Carole as an ugly, over-the-hill desperate wanna-be hipster?  Ok got it. 

 

And it's not that I don't think Carole is attractive, I just think *she* thinks she's more attractive than she is.

 

 

Honestly, what does this even mean?  Looks and levels of attractiveness are subjective.  Maybe Carole thinks she's Cindy Crawford, and there is *nothing* wrong with that. (and hell I'm sure there's somebody out there who thinks Cindy Crawford is butt-ugly).  But to put forth the notion that because you - personally - don't like her because she appears to be acting in a manner that suggests she's more attractive than YOU think she is? Sounds ludicrous to me. 

Edited April 30, 2015 by Duke2801

[sasha206]

Do I think Taylor Swift would have dated the kid if he wasn't a Kennedy? No, she probably would have never met him if he wasn't a Kennedy. Don't get me wrong, the Kennedy family is still a wealthy, powerful, name recognizable family, I'm just saying, the "Kennedy mystique" ain't what it used to be. If it were, the Kennedy kid would have gotten attention just for being a Kennedy, not for dating Taylor Swift. As far as I know, the kid wasn't heard from before and hasn't been heard from since, whereas you had media following JFK Jr.'s every move, just for existing.

Now, if Carole had married a Kennedy and was now Carole Kennedy, I'd say that might be a little different, but I don't think being married to a cousin of the Kennedy's 15 years ago, when everyone has been dead for that 15 years has the kind of power that is going to attract the Kennedy "mystique" for a generation who was in middle school when JFK Jr. died.

As far as Carole "regressing" to 29, considering she spent her 30's in hospitals, watching her husband get cut open and cut out piece by piece, wasting away and dying an agonizing death, then grieving his loss for many years, if Carole wants a do-over, I say more power to her!! Carole went through hell, if she wants to spend her fifties getting back to what she should have experienced 20 years ago, I'm all for it. Most people don't have to experience what she went through until they are in their 50's or 60's or if they are lucky even later.

Have fun, Carole! Mazel!

ETA: regarding the "club" Carole went to, IIRC, she said it was her friend's club, she probably went because of that connection (and it was Halloween!!) I did not get the impression that Carole is regularly going clubbing.

 

I hear you.

 

I'm going to end my comments on Carole because I'm becoming way too nasty.  I think I'm just disappointed in her.  The first two seasons, I really liked her.  Love her and Heather together (to this day).  I just think she's become more of a RHONY caricature even though she still wants to give you the impression she's above it all. So basically, I feel like she's become very full of herself.  And my biggest disappointment was her recounting a drug-related incident and making it sound like it was kind of funny.  Women being drugged in bars (particularly unknowningly) is no joke.  And I don't believe she took it without knowing what it was.  So it's sloppy behaviour.

 

Anyway, that's my opinion.  I was too strong on my secondary comment "no one would pay attention to her..."  I meant I think a big part of the allure is that mystique and also her celebrity associated with the show.  But I also feel that way with about 95% of the men who start dating a RH.  Most of the time I think they are there simply because they want to be on TV.  Maybe Adam is different. 

 

Sorry if I've offended you or others with my comments.  I realize I'm coming off way bitchy.

Edited April 30, 2015 by sasha206

[jaync]

I beg to disagree, there has been many, many housewives just as popular if not more than Bethenny, were are their millions? were are the empires they have built?

Just as being happily married with children doesn't necessarily make one a more roundly successful person, neither does having more money than one's peers. I'd much rather view a HW with a general pleasant demeanor and far less financial riches than a mega loaded one who seems stuck in twat gear and is a chore to watch.

 

 But she's clearly not ashamed or embarrassed about it so no need to worry about her taking her own life. 

It was a totally facetious comment taking the piss out of a previous creepy one that was made.

 

 

 

[Baltimore Betty]

Did I hear Carole tell those two young guys at the birthday dinner that she modeled Jordache Jeans?

 

I must have missed the whole gummy bear conversation, did Carole eat those club gummy bears and barf on her date?

 

I am so aware of myself when I go out to bars now it is not even funny! Not that I am out of control or anything but I watch how I might (at my age) come across in public...these women are cautionary tales! 

 

[Sincerely Yours]

Dorinda's daughter's eyebrows.... I don't know if I can stare at those giant caterpillars all season. Without Peter Gallagher's face under them, it's just disconcerting.

OMG!!! This was soooo freaking funny!! Thanks for that one...