S01.E22: The Last Death of Henry Morgan

[sonyab]

Injecting air into your veins causes an embolism or air bubble in the brain. Which results in a stroke or heart failure. Medically anything can happen when you have air bubbles in your veins. Henry basically gave Adam Locked In Syndrome since he can't die. He's aware but can't move or speak.

 

Oh thanks!! I just saw that that Matt Miller was interviewed and it's online. He talks about it! :)

[TobinAlbers]

It's a rare thing for a show that was considered dead in the ratings before it aired it's 13th episode to

 

A) get the back 9

B) not let the sword hanging over its head affect morale or quality of the show

 

Seriously, the way IG, JH, AG, and Co continued to kick ass on this show for 22 episodes and deliver an overall solid, fun experience right to the end even as Matt Miller said this show is pretty much toast is amazing. That's professionalism.

 

And as to the finale, I love that they wrapped up pretty much everything: how Abigail found out, if Jo would be told, Adam, if the original weapon of death would cause the final death.

 

Henry and Abigail's romance and love really caught me by surprise. Many times this stuff can be treacly and unconvincing but they really were a romantic, strong but doomed couple that you rooted for even as you knew their ultimate fate. Seriously, they were swoon worthy and the stuff of supercouples.

 

And yet, you also are ready for him to move on and be happy again with Jo. It's not a competition between these two women. We KNOW Abigail will always be a part of Henry's heart, but Jo is a different kind of love and if we get a S2 it'll be interesting to explore Henry falling and being in love in the present day and how he navigates that. If we get more seasons we're definitely going to get the 'Can he have/should he have biological children' and the possibility of Abe adjusting to a sibling. Har!

 

I still found Adam sympathetic and even appalled at his end. Doctors also do no HARM and what Henry did to neutralize Adam was extremely harmful, however, yes, dude was nuts so Henry had to do something. And DAMN the look on Henry's face from Adam's paralyzed POV when his sunny demeanor with the doctor slipped into a darker, satisfied victorious look that only Adam can see? Chilling.

 

Lucas getting that affirmation from Henry at the end was so touching. Lucas is like the little brother who hero worships his older, cooler more sophisticated brother and is never sure that big bro likes them or thinks their cool and Henry finally said in no uncertain terms that he was cool and smart. In all the other things Lucas has done for Henry it's been in the service of work but to give Henry the dagger drove home to Henry that Lucas had his back professionally and personally. Hope we get to see Henry show his personal support of Lucas in a crisis in S2.

 

If this was all we got of Henry Morgan and his crew, they went out on a high and everyone associated with this show has something to be proud of in delivering a funny, witty, uplifting and touching 22 hours of entertainment. Part of me thinks that with Revenge opening a hole in ABC's schedule that they were making room to give Forever one more chance. Hoping that theory prevails!

[HalcyonDays]

Injecting air into your veins causes an embolism or air bubble in the brain. Which results in a stroke or heart failure. Medically anything can happen when you have air bubbles in your veins. Henry basically gave Adam Locked In Syndrome since he can't die. He's aware but can't move or speak.

 

I'm going to miss this show. I do think this was a very cruel thing to do to Adam. I know he's a crazy killer, but thinking of all of the suffering he went through at the hands of the Nazi's, lots before that and now this?? That's not the Henry I expect. However, it is very possible the hospital would take Adam off life support eventually, so then he "dies" and starts over again. And would be very pissed. It's not wonder he's as "crazy" and disregarding of humanity as he is, if bad things like this have happened to him over 2000 years. I certainly would be.

 

Great last episode, made me cry and I am going to miss this show desperately. The cast was wonderful and had great camraderie and if it got renewed, the second season with Jo knowing would have been awesome. *sigh*.

[sonyab]

"If we get more seasons we're definitely going to get the 'Can he have/should he have biological children' and the possibility of Abe adjusting to a sibling. Har!"

 

Hahahahaha! Sibling rivalry? :) ROFL!

 

"I still found Adam sympathetic and even appalled at his end. Doctors also do no HARM"

 

Yes do no harm, but you can say that what Henry did was in self defense. He had to do what he had to do.

Edited May 6, 2015 by sonyab

[Gregg247]

Since this was the final episode, I was actually kind of hoping that Henry WOULD die a normal death this time.  It's what he's been hoping for and searching for for almost 200 years.  He's seen, through Adam, what he may very well become after a few thousand more years.  Death would be a "win" as far as he's concerned.  I was disappointed for him when he bobbed up in the East River; like a feeling of hopelessness for him.

 

I've never been quite sure what to make of Adam.  Sometimes he's evil, other times an ally, sometimes a victim.  I think this was dictated by the writers' plot needs rather than actual character development.  I wish he and Henry could have sat down and talked their unique condition out and become allies--that could have been a very interesting part of the show.

 

I liked Lucas' final comments to Henry.  I think they knew this would be these characters' last scene together, so they gave them some closure.

 

This turned out to be a really good show.  I watched the first episode just because I had some time to kill, and ended up sticking around for the entire series.  I'm going to miss it.

[BenThere]

Deleted, wrong thread.

Edited May 6, 2015 by BenThere

[sjohnson]

I'm not quite sure whether Adam was given the pistol or there were more than one pistol. After all, pistols were sometimes made in sets. Also, did Adam lie about the pistol he gave Henry? 

 

Aside from my confusion on this, I thought this was as good a goodbye as we could hope for. Jo/Henry is entirely satisfying. The only loose end may be what happens to Lucas. But it was Jo who ordered Lucas not to turn over the dagger, so maybe she can bury it all. It's not likely this was official. She was planning to follow Henry precisely because she expected Lucas to defy her. I doubt she cleared any of this. 

 

I'm not as dismayed by the cruelty of the embolism. It's not like the guy is going to be paralyzed forever, I think. Death will always be an escape for him, whether it's Henry or something like aspiration. Basically this was a way to keep the guy confined. Harsh but necessary.

[henripootel]

Harsh but necessary.

I think that, like a lot of this show, it doesn't bear scrutiny.  Harsh doesn't begin to qualify it - it'd be hell on earth to me.  I'm not saying that it's beyond comprehension but I wouldn't have thought it of Henry.

 

Other things that don't add up.

 

I know it's important to the plot that Adam disappear from the torture scene immediately but cutting your own throat doesn't kill you instantly.  I meant death is seriously nigh but we saw Mengele's team do worse things to him and his problem was that he didn't die right away.  Wonder how they figured out about the whole 'rebirth in water' thing.  Those clever Nazis.  

Medically anything can happen when you have air bubbles in your veins.

Indeed - good shooting on Henry's part that he hit the bullseye from 3 miles away.  Not impossible but ... good shooting.

Also, did Adam lie about the pistol he gave Henry?

Correct, and why are we sure this is THE gun anyway?  I know, plot conveniences, but that's my point.  We'll skip right past the (already noted by others) single-shot gun which fires twice and wonder how many guns were in the wreck (in miraculous condition) which could have been the gun.  

 

Even more along these lines, I rolled my eyes wildly at the the knife from somewhere around 44 BC must be involved in the only event most people can even vaguely associate with that whole era.  I mean I could see an amateur going there (much like anything from Palestine vaguely 2000 years old is 'the Jesus house' or 'the Jesus boat' or whatever) but I'da thought Henry and Walter Bishop would know better.   I'll give them credit though - this being THE knife (or one of them) that killed Caesar turned out not to be pertinent to the story, nor was the notion that this is THE dagger that killed Adam.  Oh and if there's any speculation in this direction, Adam can't be Julius Caesar, not unless he went reverse-bald.  Caesar was apparently bald and vain about it, although maybe after he was killed he reappeared in the Fiume Tevere with a full head of hair.  

 

And from the way-back machine - I and several others wondered at the beginning of the show if the 'clue' that tipped Jo off would be an (easily explained) photograph of Henry from way back.  We collectively called it, and I renew my objection: of all the possible explanations for such a photograph, 'immortal Henry' is way, way down the list, after 'ancestor who looks like Henry', 'random guy who looks like Henry', 'fake photograph', 'Henry had himself altered to look like this photograph', 'alien time travel', 'almost anything', then finally 'immortals exist and Henry is one'.  Sorry, not buying, as fun as that might be I still have a few brain cells firing and I assume Jo does too.  

[iMonrey]

I have a feeling this episode suffered from some bad editing because it seems like Henry and Abe were playing a con on Adam. I don't think Adam had the real pistol that killed Henry. For one thing they made a big point of Abe standing guard over it, and for another, Abe was waiting at the river for Henry to resurrect. So - Abe definitely knew what was going down with Henry and Adam in the subway. Either there was a scene where Henry and Abe discovered the pistol had been stolen, or there was a scene where Henry and Abe reveal that they deliberately switched the pistols. Or a scene where they revealed Henry never really had the real pistol, Adam sent him a replica. Something was missing there.

 

Also missing - I think Jo and Lucas were working together because after Henry took the dagger and contacted Adam to meet him, Jo was following him. How would she know something was up? There must have been a scene where she goes to the evidence locker and finds the dagger missing or a scene where it's revealed she told Lucas to give Henry the dagger and then followed him. 

 

Finally, the flashbacks were somewhat inconsistent too. I think this was supposed to have taken place before Henry and Abigail were married, because who burned Abigail with a cigarette butt? It seemed like a current boyfriend who was mad at her, or maybe an abusive employer, and they never really cleared that up.

 

I am grateful, though, that they gave their audience some measure of closure. When a show is almost certain to be cancelled, the writers usually end the show with a big cliff-hanger hoping the audience will rally the network to renew it. That always pisses me off and I'm glad the writers gave their loyal fans a better ending.

 

We got a really nice scene with Lucas and Henry, and with Henry and Abe, and with Henry and Jo. I think those were the important emotional beats they needed to close out the show, so it's really no wonder they had to cut some things out of this episode.

[HalcyonDays]

We collectively called it, and I renew my objection: of all the possible explanations for such a photograph, 'immortal Henry' is way, way down the list, after 'ancestor who looks like Henry', 'random guy who looks like Henry', 'fake photograph', 'Henry had himself altered to look like this photograph', 'alien time travel', 'almost anything', then finally 'immortals exist and Henry is one'.  Sorry, not buying, as fun as that might be I still have a few brain cells firing and I assume Jo does too.

 

The photo could simply have been one of those dress-up photo things one can do. You know - the ones where they provide costumes (Old West or whatever), and a old timey background. Convert the photo in black and white and boom, it looks old. It could also have been a very well done Halloween costume. If anything, if I were Jo, I would immediately think that, and a connection to the person (wife) who Henry lost. Jo knows he lost someone, but doesn't know her name.

[sjohnson]

I don't think there's any way to explain Abe's uncertainty about Henry's survival unless he feared Adam's theory was correct. 

 

I don't think Jo would trust Lucas to lie effectively, but do think she could anticipate Lucas, precisely because he's kind of transparent.

 

Crippling Adam so that he could suicide his way out was the only way to hold him prisoner, which is why I say harsh, but necessary. Most people have no problem with prisoners being stuck in solitary for long periods of time in real life prisons where they aren't guaranteed to escape. Harsh and unnecessary. 

 

The single shot thing was bad direction I think. Burn Gorman fiddled with the gun while he was talking. I think that was supposed to be reloading. It can't be, since he didn't use the built-in ramrod to load the bullet, powder and wadding (and clean the barrel too?,)although I suppose he could have prepared them ahead of time. I know someone expert with the flintlock pistol would be able to load it much faster than the rest of us, so I carefully avert my eyes from what the director (the guy in charge of messing up the script) put on screen. 

[scenicbyway]

I'd really like this show to stick around.  It's been better than Castle and much better than Nashville.  Even with the poor ratings the show has continued to put out really good episodes.  I thought the finale was a little too gory and I'm still wondering if Adam is supposed to be Julius Caesar.  I also can't figure out why he just didn't kill himself with the dagger instead of trying to kill Henry first with the gun.

 

I do think the Jo, Henry relationship was sped up as a way to save the show.  In the first episodes they just seem as friends, then when she gets a boyfriend she decides she wants Henry.  Henry didn't seem to realize his feelings until this finale and even then he's still hesitant perhaps, because he's still mourning his wife.  The timing just felt odd to me.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The photo could simply have been one of those dress-up photo things one can do. You know - the ones where they provide costumes (Old West or whatever), and a old timey background. Convert the photo in black and white and boom, it looks old. It could also have been a very well done Halloween costume. If anything, if I were Jo, I would immediately think that, and a connection to the person (wife) who Henry lost. Jo knows he lost someone, but doesn't know her name.

I think that there were lots of plausible explanations for the photo's existence. Aside from the dress up photo, it could have been an old photo of his relatives. I don't think Jo would have recognized Abigail or Abe from that photo. And I know that Mr. EB had several old family photos where one of his relatives looks exactly like someone who is alive now (off the top of my head, there are three pictures that have old relatives who are dead ringers for various cousins who are in their 20s now). The sketchier part to me was why she found the photo in the subway sewer. His cover story that someone stole his watch was a good try but what kind of thief steals a pocket watch AND an old family photo? I am glad that Abe said to tell her the truth. Hopefully she now trusts him enough to believe him. Once she knows, she may initially think it's far fetched but then it will all make sense. I think it also helps that Abe will back up his story (unlike when Henry told his first wife).

[orza]

Jo didn't need to draw the conclusion from the photo that Henry was immortal. She just needed to see it as something odd that together with the watch couldn't reasonably be explained so she asked him about it to get to the bottom of whatever was going on with him. Jo knew Henry had been in the sewer or wherever it was and and shots were fired there and then she found two personal items belonging to Henry down there with no obvious explanation as to how they got there. .

 

The photo provided an opening for Henry to tell Jo about himself, with Abe's support. It was also an opportunity for Abe to bring the family photo album that he surely has to show 70 years of photos of Abe growing up and aging while Henry was not aging.

[scuttling]

Oh boy, I hope it gets renewed, though I haven't much hope. Abe and Henry are the heart of the show and Lucas was fantastic tonight. I agree that I think Jo must have anticipated he'd act thusly?

 

There was a lot I think we were left having to assume that made it sloppy -- that with Jo and Lucas, Adam having the original gun (and as has been pointed out how the heck do they know THAT GUN is THE GUN, etc).

 

I will admit, I've always been a fan of Adam as a villain and didn't find him too cartoonish. That said, I think they wrote him into a corner, and upped the "cartoon" in the finale. I found it initially refreshing that he wasn't someone orchestrating EVERYTHING, as Henry initially suspected, and even in fact that with Abigail, his intent hadn't been to kill her. That said, the years clearly drove him insane and I'd venture destroyed any moral compass he had (I wonder if there was any consideration for there simply being different ideas re: morality 2,000 years ago). I thought his loneliness was a bit pathetic and thus pitiable. ...and also as for Abigail, lmfao what the heck did he think he was doing threatening with the knife, like... what a bozo. Also for not killing himself post syringe, but I guess he wanted to keep his stuff on him?? Why not stash em IDK?? 

 

Re: upping the cartoon, I also couldn't understand why he was suddenly needing to play a game rather than killing himself promptly. He'd been fairly honest to date. Was he lying the whole time? Never planned to kill himself? So what then? Just totally deranged? Just so lonely before and thus so obsessed with Henry that he had to keep that going, this little bright spot in his empty endless life? But, while what Henry did was cruel and necessary (and also again reiterating said concerns re: wtf happens when he DOESN'T AGE), it was also obviously necessary for the plot. I think Adam had the potential to be more interesting than he was-- a chilling 2,000 year old foil to Henry, not entirely "evil" but certainly awful, but his obsession was specifically the dagger/how to kill themselves/Henry by extension, but that wouldn't be sustainable. He'd have to go REAL cartoon psycho and that'd also have a short shelf life. 

 

I skimmed the Miller interview where he says (if s2) they'll be introducing new characters who would dramatically shift the whatever, so I guess those'd be more immortals and Adam will be totes irrelevant, which is probably good, but it just feels like a waste of a 2,000 year old immortal character. Maybe in the unlikely even it's renewed we could get that slow turn/sit down and chat/Spike type deal... more likely they'd just make him extra psycho with fury @ Henry for what he did blah blah blah.

 

Sorry for the Adam spiel, been thinking about it and nowhere to put it!

 

All that said -- as bored as I am by these kinds of shows always hooking up the leads, and as rushed as was Jo's romance this season (such that it felt like a big hard push at Henry and subsequently clumsy), at least they're very cute together, so the inevitable romance in the event of a second season should be fine. 

[Sakura12]

I don't mind the Henry/Jo romance because in most shows they hit your over the head with these two are meant to be together but find one stupid reason after another to keep them apart for years. This show didn't throw any romance anvils at us, they let them grow naturally as friends that was slowly turning into something more. Then they had Jo pretty much admit she had feelings for him while Henry is still trying to figure his out. That's what made this show so refreshing to me. 

[Clanstarling]

I wondered that IF the gun was the one that originally killed him, and Adam's theory was not too far off base, then perhaps being killed another time by the gun just resets Henry to being mortal. Then he'd age normally, but still have a heck of a backstory and experience, and threats to his life would actually be threatening.

 

It didn't occur to me that Henry deliberately injected air into Adam. My take was that he was injecting him with some sort of paralytic/sedative so that he could capture Adam. I was surprised at the embolism, and could have sworn I saw liquid in the syringe. But I deleted the episode before reading the forum, so I can't check. As someone pointed out, the embolism could have killed him - which would be counter to what I think Henry was trying to do.

 

Regarding Adam and Abigail - we only have Adam's word that he didn't intend to kill Abigail. Given the way he's been portrayed, I would have expected him to kill Abigail once she finally revealed what he wanted. That's what he's done with pretty much everyone else (except Abraham - for whom he has some feeling of connection, given they were both in the camps).

 

As for Abigail's cigarette burn, my impression was that it was a scar - that her former boyfriend had burned her.

 

I thought this was a satisfying season and/or series finale. It wrapped up enough issues, while leaving some threads dangling for future drama (how will Jo react, will Adam recover or die from the embolism and become a bigger problem, etc.) I hope it is renewed. I've grown to really like the characters, and in the short span of one season, they've all grown and changed because of their connections to each other.

Edited May 6, 2015 by clanstarling

[pcta]

Forumfish - that was my understanding too

[CocoaGoddess]

Yeah I was wondering if he was Caesar too, but when he told Henry he became immortal while trying to save someone, it seemed less likely that he is him. (Though it would be awesome if he was!)

 

Also makes sense why a dagger like that has survived 2,000 years. It's probably been heavily guarded and traded in cloaks of secrecy. 

 

I LOVE this show! It has me caught up in my emotions every week, I'm not sure why more people aren't watching. Dammit. 

[shapeshifter]

I like to imagine that Abe was able to procure an identical one to "hide" in the safe for Adam to steal.

That's an interesting idea - but if he'd switched it out he wouldn't have been so tense at the river, waiting to see if Henry would appear, because he'd know that the switched pistol couldn't harm him. He must have looked and found out that the pistol was gone, that Henry and the dagger were gone (call to Lucas, since they're on good terms now?) and then gone to the river to wait and pray. Excellent scene.

Perhaps Abe was worried that when Adam discovered the gun didn't kill Henry, he would try the dagger, and it would work. Or perhaps Abe is always that anxious when Henry "dies." Maybe Abe worries that Henry is a like a cat with nine lives--that Henry too has a finite number of times he will be revived.

[K.M.]

Perhaps Abe was worried that when Adam discovered the gun didn't kill Henry, he would try the dagger, and it would work. Or perhaps Abe is always that anxious when Henry "dies." Maybe Abe worries that Henry is a like a cat with nine lives--that Henry too has a finite number of times he will be revived.

That is all possible of course, but to me it didn't feel like they were playing it that way. I would have expected some small reveal or comment about it if that were the case. This show hasn't usually been that mysterious about what characters are up to. Sleeping in front of the safe with a rifle seems a bit excessive if Abe knew it was the wrong gun. If they get a second season, of course they can do what they like with it if they want to use the "same weapon" theory again.

 

I don't think Adam could ever plausibly be Caesar - for one thing, Caesar had a rather public autopsy and burial. He couldn't just vanish. History would have noticed. So if Adam is telling the truth about trying to save someone and he got stabbed trying to save Caesar, he'd either have been one of the senators who changed his mind, or possibly a servant who was nearby. Another possibility is that he was a friend of one of the assassins - many of those who participated in the assassination of Caesar were later assassinated themselves. You could spin a tale of how the dagger that killed Caesar was then used in revenge against those who killed him - and "Adam" got in the way. That would allow him to be tied into the Caesar event but not a famous person whose story would be known and whose stabbing and disappearance would be noticed.

Edited May 7, 2015 by K.M.

[kikaha]

 

I don't think Adam could ever plausibly be Caesar - for one thing, Caesar had a rather public autopsy and burial. He couldn't just vanish. History would have noticed.

 

I agree.  Raises the question, what happened when Henry first died on the ship?  The captain and crew would have seen his body disappear.  So would the Africans.  Seems like it would have entered the folklore, at the very least. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I thought after he was shot, he fell off the ship into the water. Or am I remembering that incorrectly (and possibly thinking of a different show/movie)?

Edited May 7, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[sinkwriter]

 

Yes, they definitely wrapped things up. And if they do get a second season (please TV Gods, make this happen), season two seems quite early for Jo to know his secret.

 

 

I don't mind the Henry/Jo romance because in most shows they hit your over the head with these two are meant to be together but find one stupid reason after another to keep them apart for years. This show didn't throw any romance anvils at us, they let them grow naturally as friends that was slowly turning into something more. Then they had Jo pretty much admit she had feelings for him while Henry is still trying to figure his out. That's what made this show so refreshing to me.

 

Most shows seem to get bogged down in forcing couples apart, to the point that the actions of the characters become unbelievable and you just roll your eyes and yell at the TV because they're behaving counter-intuitive to what real people would do, all so that the showrunners can keep characters apart. There's only been one show where I thought they managed to surprise me by following a natural progression of relationship development while still keeping things complicated, and that's a show called Farscape. As bizarre and fantastical as that show was, the relationship between Aeryn and Crichton never really got wrapped up in melodramatic triangles or over-the-top misunderstandings and communication errors. If the couple had trouble communicating with one another, eventually they got through it and were honest. Refreshingly so. I was amazed at how the showrunners managed to create an in-depth relationship that developed believably and beautifully. 

 

So... in regard to Forever... IF by some grand chance they do get a season two, I would really really prefer that they not talk their way out of that final scene by having Henry bullshit Jo once again, claiming family resemblance or some other lie. Their relationship is at a point where he needs to start trusting her more and showing SOMETHING on his end to prove that he wants her in his life as a true friend and ally, someone he can trust with his life just as he wants to be able to protect hers. Plus, Abe's right there -- I would think this time they'd all sit down together and have a serious conversation, with Abe there as back-up. To back off from that with another silly lie, when she's so mistrusting right now, I think would be a big mistake.

 

If they get a season two, I think it would be too clichéd to have him make up something yet again and her swallow it, just like everything else. Not when she's feeling such a strong unevenness in their friendship and has been so hurt by his actions lately. I think the more challenging and interesting option would be for her to hear the story. She may not know what to make of it, she may not even fully believe it until she sees it happen with her own eyes, and - given what happened with her own husband - she may not want him to prove it to her because it would be too disturbing to witness. I think it would be more interesting to see how she tries to relate to what he's told her, and see this unusual (and potentially fun) trio form amongst Henry, Abe and Jo. And have her join in the danger that comes from knowing Henry's secret. It doesn't have to be boring, having her know. It could ramp up the challenges for him and for her, especially given her job.

 

If they don't get a season 2, then I think that is a finale I can live with and enjoy. How Henry is the way he is and how (if possible) can he be killed is still a mystery, but in the end he's with Abe, his true family, and the immediate threat of Adam (who was definitely dangerous, violent and volatile) is gone, and we're left with the possibility that Henry has told Jo his secret and finally let her in. That's a good wrap-up, if they have to.

 

But I'd really like a season 2. Even if it's a shortened one, like 8, 10 or 12 episodes. Anything to see Jo's reaction to his story, and see how they might be able to play with that. Please, ABC? 

 

I agree.  Raises the question, what happened when Henry first died on the ship?  The captain and crew would have seen his body disappear.  So would the Africans.  Seems like it would have entered the folklore, at the very least.

 

They threw him overboard and showed his body sinking into the depths of the ocean. He looked stunned but like he might still be alive at that point, so my guess was that he either died from drowning or from his wounds (while sinking in the water). And it happened at night - it seemed very dark out when they tossed him overboard, if memory serves, in which case they probably wouldn't have seen him disappear after he hit the water and went under. It would have been too hard to see.

That's my guess, anyway.

Edited May 7, 2015 by sinkwriter

[possibilities]

I agree that they have to tell Jo for real. One of the things I like about her is that she's not willing to take BS, she finds it insulting and she's got too much self-respect to be jerked around or otherwise mistreated. Also, she's smart, brave, tough and an adult. There's never been a single time that I can remember where the show has reduced her to a damsel who needs Henry to save her. If anything, it's leaned in the opposite direction.

 

At the same time, I don't know how they could possibly make her believe the immortality story. The 70 years of photos with Abe growing up is a good idea, but if someone told me this story, even with a photo album, I'd still think it was a scam. There's just no way I can see her not thinking it's a shared delusion and/or scam of some sort, and it would make her either want to lock them up like Henry's first wife did, or she'd just be utterly disgusted and think they are lying again and she'd never trust him again. She might even refuse to work with Henry anymore.

 

I've been trying to think of any way to do it, and I just can't. Except a demonstration. I'm sure she'd try to stop him from demonstrating, because she wouldn't want to stand by and watch a suicide or a murder. So it would have to be something that happened very quickly before she could react. And at the same time, something private enough that there wouldn't be bystanders. He can't run into traffic or jump off a roof, because he doesn't want witnesses.

 

Anyway, however they engineered that, she'd have to see him vaporize and then Abe would have to convince her to go to the river with him. After that, OK. I can see her believing in it, as a miracle. And it might be nice to see someone regard it as a miracle, not a curse. I wouldn't want her to get all weird and think of him as a "special being" (messiah or angel or prophet), so hopefully they'd sidestep that pitfall.

 

Another thing I've thought about is that when Henry was shot the first time, and he died in the ocean, I wonder how he ever made it to shore. He must have drowned over and over again, and just kept drifting til what? The tide finally carried him close enough to be reborn a swimmable distance to shore? That must have been hell. Drowning repeatedly like that... shudder... especially since it being the first time, he wouldn't have known what was happening or that it would ever end.

 

Also, is he really swimming in the East River? He couldn't reappear in a strategically placed hot tub or at the Y or something? The East River is so disgusting; for the sake of the mortal actor, I hope it's CGI.

 

Even the most successful TV shows almost never last more than 5 or 10 years (I know: there are a few exceptions that go 20 years or more), so I don't see a way to make this happen, but in a universe where this show had great ratings, and lasted a very long time, I think it would be interesting to see Henry meet another immortal who could become his partner. I like Jo, but say... 60 or 70 years in the future, she's gone, but Henry meets this new person and stops being so eternally alone. Living forever doesn't sound to me like a curse, except for the loneliness of being the only one.

 

Going back to this episode: When he injected the air, Henry said: "I'm not a killer; I'm a healer." Are we sure his only motive was revenge? I've been trying to think of a way this could lead to any kind of relief for Adam, and I'm stumped. But he didn't have to say "I'm a healer." He could have said nothing, or stopped at "I'm not a killer" if they didn't want to leave the idea on the table somewhere that there might be some other plan up Henry's sleeve. And he did say he'd visit.

 

Has anyone seen the movie about a writer with locked in syndrome? I can't remember the title. It had butterfly in it, I think. Anyway, he learned to communicate through eye blinks and wrote extensively. Adam might become a novelist. If he plays his cards right, he could write books and claim they were historical fiction. He could become very successful and start having some positive experiences instead of being tormented by past traumas.

 

With no way to escape, he might start to meditate and release some of his anguish. Henry might send him a competent shrink (or his dominatrix friend?), for therapeutic purposes. He could send him endless kindnesses, like massage therapists and gourmet food and nice people to feed it to him, people to sing him songs, take him to the theater on a gurney, read him books, drive him nuts with innocent well-meaning pleasantness. Maybe eventually it would break through his despair. Or, it could just be fun to watch the evil maniac be confronted with the better side of humanity and unable to actively spook, resist, or refute it.

 

I know there's no reason to expect the show to be renewed. But I'm still enjoying thinking about what they left us.

Edited May 7, 2015 by possibilities

[K.M.]

When he injected the air, Henry said: "I'm not a killer; I'm a healer." Are we sure his only motive was revenge?

Actually, I think what he said was "I'm not a killer, I'm a doctor."

 

He won't let himself to be forced to kill Adam, but he'll use his medical skills to stop him.

 

I think that Adam's whole approach to Henry from the beginning was an attempt to make him into someone who would be willing and eager to kill Adam. When he had the dagger he couldn't bring himself to use it on himself. He wanted to make Henry do what he couldn't, and in order to do that he was actively trying to break down Henry's resistance to the idea of killing someone. That was the reason behind sending in the supposed immortal to attack Henry and force Henry to kill him. Remember the phone call from Adam afterward, asking how it felt to kill someone, and wasn't it a rush of a new experience? Adam can torture and kill others, but is too much of a coward to deliberately stab himself, so he wants to manipulate Henry and use him to find out if his theory works, one way or another.

 

So Henry's choice to paralyze Adam and imprison him in his own body isn't only a revenge thing; it's the only way to get out of being forced to kill Adam over and over - and to prevent Adam from destroying everyone and everything that Henry loves one by one in an attempt to push him into acting contrary to his nature and convictions. And yes, if Henry ever finds the "cure" that he's been looking for, I expect he'll share that knowledge with Adam, one way or another.

 

I have had very similar thoughts to yours regarding the difficulty of convincing someone of the immortality without a demonstration, and also that he should eventually meet an immortal (who isn't crazy like Adam) to spend his life with. That's some of the stuff I would like to see the show address if it continued.

 

Speaking of lonely immortals, has anyone else noticed that Henry is basically a human version of The Doctor? Always the smartest person in the room, British accent, wears a scarf, has a nemesis of his own kind, has a series of companions who help to combat the endless loneliness. Too bad Henry doesn't have a TARDIS so he can travel in time and space and save the universe every other day to help pass the time and take his mind off things. He has to make do with solving murders instead. ;-)

Edited May 7, 2015 by K.M.

[shapeshifter]

Who needs a TARDIS when you've got Judd Hirsch? Heh.

[Sakura12]

I think Jo would believe him, maybe not right away because she'd have to wrap her head around it. Especially if she sees pictures of Abe growing up and pictures of Abigail whom she knows meant more to Henry then being Abe's mother. She also knows how close Abe and Henry are, father and son makes more sense then roommates. She also knows about his swimming naked in the river, which makes no sense giving how he is. 

 

They could have Abe take Jo to the river. Henry kills himself and pops up in the middle of river. That way she wouldn't have to see him kill himself but also see him appear somewhere he couldn't possibly appear. She's a Detective, she can put together the clues to reach the conclusion he tells her about. She doesn't need to understand how, Henry doesn't either. 

[sjohnson]

A nitpick on Farscape: There was a triangle between Aeryn, the dead Crichton whom she finally hooked up with and the surviving Crichton whom she hadn't hooked up with. And for those who haven't seen the show, in universe this makes perfect sense. 

 

It's much much harder to forge pictures on film of the age the family photo was. It is even barely conceivable that this was a very early Polaroid instant, which I'm not even sure can be forged at all. 

 

As for the spitting images of grandparents and other ancestors, I don't believe it. I believe some atypically prominent feature might be inherited but that's it. Many random people resemble each other, which is why you can amuse yourself finding actor doubles. But a Julia Roberts and a Monica Potter or a R.G. Armstrong and a John Doucette still only resemble each other. It just takes a closer look. There is a serious problem explaining the photo. And I say that there is no explanation for the watch either.

Edited May 7, 2015 by sjohnson

[Sakura12]

Another thing with the old photos, is Jo going to think they randomly have a lifetime of family photos all ready for her in case she finds out? 

[Turtle Wexler]

 

Has anyone seen the movie about a writer with locked in syndrome? I can't remember the title. It had butterfly in it, I think. Anyway, he learned to communicate through eye blinks and wrote extensively.

The Diving Bell and the Butterfly.  It's based on the memoir of the same name by Jean-Dominique Bauby, the then-Editor-in-Chief of French Elle.  I've not seen the movie, but read the memoir, which was a great read.  

[Netfoot]

As for deliberately killing himself to prove his immortality to Jo, I'd have to call that unwise, and uncharacteristic.  We've seen Adam casually kill himself to effectively teleport out of a ticklish situation, but remember that Adam is ten times more accustomed to the process, and completely blasé about the prospect of real, final death.  And nutso.  But the process by which Henry/Adam are returned to life is a complete mystery.  They don't know how or why it works, and there is certainly no guarantee that it will always work.  Henry may have been willing to give Nora a demonstration, but modern-day Henry seems a cautious, conservative sort of guy that -- if he has any sense -- would hesitate to put himself through the physical pain of suicide and the potential failure to return, unless it were absolutely necessary.

[sonyab]

Actually, I think what he said was "I'm not a killer, I'm a doctor."

 

 

Yup! That is exactly what he said. :)

[sinkwriter]

 

A nitpick on Farscape: There was a triangle between Aeryn, the dead Crichton whom she finally hooked up with and the surviving Crichton whom she hadn't hooked up with. And for those who haven't seen the show, in universe this makes perfect sense.

 

LOL. Yeah, I thought about rewording the part about a "triangle" because technically there was that one. But to me Farscape did it in an incredibly unconventional way, rather than the usual triangles that many people are used to and so sick of, and they didn't prolong anything. They took conventional story ideas and turned them on their heads and kept the characters honest. It managed to make sense, and it was worked through rather than become eyerollingly annoying or beaten to death. And to my memory the characters involved were very much themselves, not forced to be otherwise in order to keep up some ridiculous triangle angle for melodrama's sake. They never forced the story. That show was pure crack in so many ways, but I still marvel at the ways in which they wrote and developed the characters. And if you ever listen to the cast commentaries, they're marvelous. They cared more about serving the story than being the "stars." Sometimes the lead actors would even say, "No, this story idea needs to be for [secondary character]; it makes so much more sense if they go through it." In such an ego-driven field, it's remarkable to me that an actor would do that. They all looked out for each other and wanted each of their characters to be highlighted in the best possible ways. I was so impressed with each and every person involved with that show. (And I almost didn't even watch it. A friend of mine tried to get me to watch one episode, and at that time I just couldn't wrap my head around the commingling of live actors with puppetry. I understood it, I knew it wasn't something necessarily new, especially given some of the films that had done something similar, but I wasn't feeling it. I didn't think I could get into it or feel fully invested. But months later I decided to try it again, and I enjoyed it so much I mainlined the entire series. I highly recommend it to anyone interested.)

 

For Jo digesting Henry's story, I wonder if she is (or could be) the balanced middle ground between Nora's betrayal of Henry and Abigail's immediate empathy and concern for him. I think Abigail was content to share her life with Henry, for however long she had with him. But I think Jo would be intrigued by the mystery of it and perhaps would want to help Henry investigate how this could have happened and if there are more people out there like Henry and Adam. She's first and foremost a cop, and a grounded one. I could see her believing Henry (at least, as much as she possibly could, under the circumstances), given the evidence before her, without actually seeing him die, but through that general belief (or wanting to believe and understand) I could see her becoming the grounding force for Henry, the person who helps him sort through the centuries of evidence looking for clues and real answers.

Edited May 7, 2015 by sinkwriter

[iMonrey]

 

I was surprised at the embolism, and could have sworn I saw liquid in the syringe.

 

I saw liquid in the syringe as well. I think Henry injected him with some sort of paralytic. 

 

 

As for Abigail's cigarette burn, my impression was that it was a scar - that her former boyfriend had burned her.

 

So - was she still working with/for this same ex boyfriend? Why would Henry go gunning for him and why was Abigail there at the time? Something was missing there.

 

The fact that Abe was at the river waiting for Henry to emerge demonstrates he knew Adam got the gun. How that went down is definitely something else that was left on the cutting room floor.

 

It's possible they shot two endings for this episode, hoping they'd have confirmation of renewal one way or another by the time it aired, then decided on Ending B because it made a better potential series finale. Ending A might have been a reveal that Henry and Abe cooked up a scheme to trap Adam by switching the guns.

Edited May 7, 2015 by iMonrey

[sinkwriter]

 

I was surprised at the embolism, and could have sworn I saw liquid in the syringe.

 

Yeah, for some reason I remember it being kind of dark yellow-tinged in color? In the moment, I thought Henry was sedating or paralyzing Adam so that when Jo arrived she would not only see Henry disappear (or die) but she would have her true culprit, with Adam lying unconscious on the ground right next to Henry, handprints all over the weapon that killed Henry. Except, that would lead to many questions and problems, of course -- she can't accuse Adam of killing Henry if he disappears and reappears, so they'd have no cause to hold him for that. They might be able to tie him to the knife and the other murders, but even then (without Henry telling her the absolute truth about everything) she'd have no knowledge that she needs to make sure Adam has no ability to kill himself because you know he'd do that immediately in order to escape. So in the moment I thought Henry's attempt to knock him out was inspired yet majorly troublesome.

 

What he did instead, imprisoning Adam within himself, was much more effective to contain the man's violent sprees. Sadly it's also pretty sadistic, given what Adam has already suffered in the hands of others. But what's so complex about it is that there are arguments to be made both ways. Adam has shown he has almost no moral compass whatsoever; he'll kill innocent people (like the poor museum anthropologist/archaeologist/whatever her role was) or torture and slaughter them (like the best bud who horrifically died choking on his own blood, his entire body marked up with that knife) or mess with them mentally like he has done with Henry. He may have once been a good man who died trying to defend someone, and perhaps that kind of madness is inevitable for anyone in that position (living through the centuries, seeing all the ways that we never learn from our own mistakes throughout history), but there's always a chance that Henry would be different, that he's always been made of different stuff than Adam has. Especially if you go through your centuries with people around you, like Henry has had Abe and Abigail, and his painter/sculpter friend, and now Jo and Lucas and the rest of the precinct. Perhaps Henry will always survive with his morals and soul and mind intact, so long as he fights to remain connected to the world in a way better than Adam has. Adam, who instead has chosen over the years to lurk in the shadows.

Edited May 7, 2015 by sinkwriter

[cali1981]

I just caught up with this episode this morning and when it was over, I just sat there stunned.  This was so good in so many ways and on so many levels that it begs for renewal.  The writing, the principal actors and the supporting ensemble have been superb all season.  A special word of praise goes to Burn Gorman. His Adam has been interesting, deliciously evil, complex and sympathetic all at the same time.  He is one very fine actor.   This is TV for adults but, as we all know, the 10 PM time slot is a difficult one which few shows survive.  Hopefully, the suits at ABC will deviate from their normal practice of cancelling shows of this quality.  If they do, even with Henry seemingly on the verge of spilling the beans to Jo, the writers have been so good that I have confidence that they could find ways to fill out another season. All we can do is wait for the news.  A bit off the topic but apparently The Mindy Project has been zapped by FOX.  Another quality show bites the dust.  It happens to too many of them. 

Edited May 7, 2015 by cali1981

[sinkwriter]

What I also liked about this episode was how Jo wasn't clueless and she didn't hold back. She struggled to trust Henry, she let him know about it, and she knew him well enough that he would go out on his own, even with the risk of Lucas's job on the table. They didn't have her get all melodramatic and assume he was somehow in on the killings and confront Henry in that way, indignant and offended; she wasn't misled by the bizarre evidence going on (especially the disturbing clip of Henry demanding the museum guard tell him where the knife was because otherwise he would die). Instead, she realized there was something else going on and she figured she knew him well enough that if he couldn't tell her outright what was wrong, then she could follow him and see for herself what he was up to.

[Shanna Marie]

So - was she still working with/for this same ex boyfriend? Why would Henry go gunning for him and why was Abigail there at the time?

I got the impression that this was very soon after Henry and Abigail got together. They were part of the team liberating the concentration camp and found baby Abe. Then they seem to have started seeing each other. This flashback looked like they were still overseas on a military outpost of some kind, immediately after the war. And then later they came to the US and he made a couple of tries of breaking up with her before they got married.

 

I suspect under normal circumstances, Jo wouldn't have given the photo a second thought. If she'd found it in the shop, in his apartment or on his desk at any other time during the season, she'd have just assumed it was a photo of his grandparents and thought he took after his grandfather. But coming so soon after him being so freaked out and messed up over the investigation of the death of a woman who went missing while he should have been a child, and if she'd seen a photo of Abigail during the investigation she'd have recognized her in the photo, and finding the photo and his watch but not him after following him there, and throw in all the other weirdness associated with him, like the things he knows and his tendency to skinny dip in the East River, it all added up to something that needed an explanation.

 

I would think that a widow would possibly find it appealing to have a man who literally can't die on her. She's been through that loss already, and right now, she could be assured that she can't lose Henry that way. That could influence how she takes the news, depending on how able she is to believe it.

[crowswork]

Maybe in the second season Henry will visit Adam and reason with him and after a good long while he'll put a pillow over his face and release him. Adam could be a frenemy with great flashbacks and be slightly reformed.

[sinkwriter]

I wouldn't trust Adam for anything after what Henry's done to him. I can practically feel the rage boiling off of him, just seeing him there in his hospital bed, unable to move. I bet he's lying there thinking of 2000+ ways to torture and kill Henry.

 

If I were Henry, and Adam somehow manages to get free, I would be very, very afraid. And I would probably have Abe hide out in another country for the rest of his natural life with a whole new name and a promise to never ever mention the names Henry Morgan or Abigail or anyone close to them in NYC. Because Henry essentially declared war on Adam, and Adam probably feels no further need to a "gentleman's agreement" to spare Abe anymore.

Edited May 8, 2015 by sinkwriter

[sinkwriter]

Well, I guess it's official:  ABC cancels 'Forever'...

 

:(

[smiley13]

Well, I guess it's official:  ABC cancels 'Forever'...

 

:(

This news makes me very sad.  Every time I like a show, ABC goes and cancels it after one season.  Forever was well acted and well written.

[shapeshifter]

Maybe in the second season Henry will visit Adam and reason with him and after a good long while he'll put a pillow over his face and release him. Adam could be a frenemy with great flashbacks and be slightly reformed.

If there'd been a second season, a variation on this plot could have been a volunteer in the hospital deciding Adam would be better off with a mercy killing, only to have him poof out of the bed (to return as Henry's nemesis).

Given that this is the same network that canceled Selfie earlier this year and The Neighbors last year, I'm not surprised they canceled this show.

Dramas with scifi or supernatural themes rarely garner enough mainstream ratings to survive--at least these days.

Edited May 8, 2015 by shapeshifter

[Happy Harpy]

It's bittersweet, but it was one of the best series finale I've seen. I'm not happy about the cancellation, but the resolution was satisfying imo. I'm happy I watched this show, it entertained me, and that's what counts in the end.

 

I know that it didn't fit the plot or where their characters were, and I know that they couldn't resolve everything in case S2 was going to happen, but my only regret is that I've never seen Henry and Jo kiss and my only wish is that they could have included some flash-forwarding (I would have loved to see Abe fully reassured that Henry won't be alone). I would have eaten with a spoon even a corny "staple scenes/moments clipshow". 

If Santa Claus exists, they filmed something like this, just in case, and it will be a DVD bonus. 

[Jaded Sapphire]

I didn't want to come here and start speculating until I knew for sure Forever was coming back, I didn't want the (expected) news to be any more painful than it already would be. So disappointing. Such a good show.

 

Shows have been resurrected right? Didn't they do that with that apocalypse show on Fox once? Jericho? Hell they're even airing 24 again. Is ABC known for that sort of thing?

 

With that small hope in mind, I guess I'll post the idea I had anyway. Piggybacking off the 'original' weapon thing, and how it should be the bullet and not the gun, I noticed Henry doesn't have an exit wound. If the bullet is still inside him then maybe removing it will make him mortal and/or he can be shot and killed with it.

 

*Sigh* I'm off to change Favorite Shows in my profile from "Forever and a bunch of cancelled shows" to "a f*ckton of cancelled shows" :-(

Edited May 9, 2015 by Jaded Sapphire

[iMonrey]

That's too bad but not unexpected. The time slot and competition just killed it. I wish ABC would come to the realization that nothing they put in that slot is going to fare much better. Poor Ioan Gruffud, first Ringer now this. 

[Netfoot]

Well, folks, it's done.  Forever was a good show, well written, and well executed, with good performances from the cast, and overall, a good watch.  I enjoyed it very much, and I would have been very glad for a renewal. 

 

It would take very little imagination to see all the interesting avenues that ongoing seasons might have explored.  But we, the fans, don't  generate enough profit, so that is not to be.  At least we had a sufficiently satisfactory wrap-up that I am not annoyed about the conclusion.  I will simply have to explore those avenues in the privacy of my own imagination.

 

Anyway, no point beating a dead horse, so I'm "Un-Following" this show. 

[Eneya]

He definitely injected him with something. If you inject air into someone's vein (artery), they will die...

[roctavia]

He definitely injected him with something. If you inject air into someone's vein (artery), they will die...

 

Not necessarily... it depends on how much air and where it was injected/ where it traveled in the body. Air embolisms can be deadly, but small amounts of air- like a few bubbles in IV tubing etc. just get absorbed harmlessly in the body, especially if they are in the venous system and you have no heart defects. In Adam's case, where Henry injected him, the air went to his brain first, before making it to his heart (which is the place that kills you) and that is where it caused his locked in syndrome... the doctor tells Henry that- he has an air embolism in his brain stem.