S30.E10: Bring The Popcorn

[peachmangosteen]

I also don't like Tyler. He does want to win, but doesn't seem interested in anything besides that. No sense of fun or humor, no snarky confessionals about how he can't believe how horrible the people in his alliance are but he's stuck with them, no... anything, except "Tylerbot seeks victory. Scanning for allies. Alliance confirmed. Simulate humanization by employing interaction protocol with allies. Refuel with rice. Re-confirm aliances. Power down." What the hell does a robot need with a million dollars? I mean, a cool robot like Bender, sure. But not Tyler.

 

This is amazing. Thanks for the laugh!

 

I by no means think Will should have yelled at her, nor should he have said such cruel personal things.  But if you call someone dishonest without any proof in front of other people... you should be prepared for the consequences.  I'm only posting this because both are wrong and it seems like way more people are taking Shirin's side because she used trigger words like domestic abuse.

 

I think people are taking Shirin's side because she did literally nothing wrong and then got verbally attacked for it by a coward while a bunch of other cowards sat by and watched.

 

As far as I'm concerned, they're ALL to blame for what happened last night; obviously Will deserves the lion's share of it, but they all participated in creating the atmosphere where Shirin was so disregarded and so much on the outside of the group that cowards like Dan and Will feel fine about talking to her the way they do, knowing they won't suffer any repercussions from the other players. What's happening this season looks like the schoolyard dynamic of one person getting singled out for the group's enmity as a way of bonding the group. Usually that person is a little odd or socially awkward or unattractive or something, but the group exaggerates every little thing the person says or does as OMG WORST THING EVER. It's usually more common among children but I've seen it happen in the workplace too and Survivor seems to bring it out in people more than in normal life. It's happened in other seasons (Sierra in Tocantins, Sylvia in Fiji, Sugar in Gabon, Shambo in Samoa -- holy shit, maybe it's the curse of women whose names begin with S) but it's never gone this far before. We've all seen this happen with kids though. Usually there's an event like last night's where the target gets either verbally abused or outright beat up by some shitty kid (who no one really likes either but he's useful for dirty work) to the point where the target runs off crying. Some of the kids will feel genuine remorse, go after the crying kid and, one hopes, learn to be kinder and more empathetic in the future; these would be your Jenns and Mikes. Then you have the ones who double-down on their douchery (Will and Dan) insisting that the other person deserved it, but maybe if their parents (or in this case twitter) demand it, they'll ultimately issue an insincere apology. Then there are the snaky little bastards like Carolyn and Tyler who pretend to be appalled and act like they had nothing to do with it, even though they were cheerleading and instigating the entire time. Finally, you have the really dopey kids, Rodney and Sierra, who have no idea what happened or why because they've eaten too much paste -- okay, I have no idea where these two fit in. Shorter version: worst cast ever.

 

Great post. Honestly this happens far too often on reality tv (Big Brother especially) and quite frankly it's scary as hell.

 

He either should have not gotten up to buy the letter or should have immediately gone up and bought the letter.  "I want to win, so I'm forgoing my letter from home" is justifiable (though you'll be seen as cutthroat and a threat, but I don't think that was really not going to happen with Mike) and "I want my letter" is normal Survivor behavior.  Going up, intentionally getting yourself last in line, then not taking the letter so you can bid on the advantage, and then reversing course is literally the worst thing you could do, besides maybe offering Jeff $500 for everyone's letter, throwing them on the ground, pissing on them, and then throwing them into the fire.

 

Honestly, even that might have been a better idea.

 

LOL. This though. Mike played that SO badly, it was hard to watch. Once he committed to the idea of lying in order to get the advantage for himself he really should've stuck to it. Going back on it afterwards made it 100 times worse because everyone saw him as dishonest and he didn't have an advantage.

 

It seems that Carolyn and Tyler are using the 'IT WAS THE EDITING!!" excuse and trying to say Shirin deserved to be spoken to that way because of what she said to Will. As someone else mentioned earlier, unless Shirin was screaming at Will that he was an ugly, fat bastard who's wife hated him then I don't see how Will's actions are justifiable in any way.

Edited April 23, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Miss Scarlet]

I'm wondering if the editing of this season has been going in the direction it has been is not because there is going to be any comeuppance for the horrible players, but that they are going to be shown as awful even while they triumph. Like tonight we heard so many horrible things about Dan (The clip of him trying not to eat that hair in his rice as Jenn was talking about him being an idiotic was the best part of this episode, maybe even this season. Kudos to the editors for that.), Rodney, Will, etc. If the season ends badly with a horrible winner then maybe the best the editors have to work with is just making those people look like crap in the process. Although I still think Mike will pull this one out in the end.

 

I didn't think I could feel shittier when watching Survivor than Colton's horrible comments about Bill and convincing the men's tribe to give up immunity and vote Bill off, but the awfulness of every episode of this season has accumulated and now I feel worse.

 

I've said many times after a bad episode that I might stop watching the season, but I've never followed through with this. This time, I really don't think I can handle any more of this. That's how bad it is. Maybe I'll check back in for the finale and if Mike and Shirin are still there then I'll watch the last episode. And possibly the reunion in hopes that Rodney, Dan and Will all get booed off the stage. 

[Sentient Meat]

Nobody called Will a liar. Nobody actually accused him of anything. Some people speculated he might have hidden something or kept something for himself. That's it. If someone had actually called Will a liar to his face, that would be one thing. But imagine someone pulling you aside and telling you "So-and-so said this about you," and without getting any confirmation you went and started bawling that person out with personal attacks with absolutely zero proof what you've been told about that person is true. That's indefensible IMO. It's childish, unreasonable and uncalled for.

Mike, Jenn and Shirin did worse than casually speculate... they undermined Will's game play by telling the others in a group setting that he must have kept the good stuff for himself without any evidence and tried to ruin what was otherwise a generous gesture.  Tyler then told Will what was being said behind his back and then Will exploded.  Once again, what Will said was wrong both in terms of bad gameplay and inappropriately harsh behavior, but in context with a man giving away food when he is both hungry and sleep deprived, probably not an atypical response from the average person living in those conditions.  If all three had been sitting there... I think Will would have laid into all three of them... but since Shirin was the only one there at first, it came off looking much worse than had he confronted all three.  Will was wrong to abuse Shirin, but she was wrong to speculate with Jenn and Mike that he was not sharing without searching for the box first.  Also remember when Will confronted her, she didn't deny that she said what Tyler had told Will... she said something like "Do you have the right to speak to me that way?"

Edited April 23, 2015 by Sentient Meat

[Andromeda]

Not quite accurate.  Probst would have had to know Dan had picked wrong and she would have to have the option to switch with Mike for things to be analogous.

 

This situation the order you pick doesn't matter, it's still 1/3.  No new information is given at any point.

 

Though it's kind of hilarious how she says 1/3 is a better chance than 1/2.  Even though that's not accurate... she had 1/2 conditional on the probability Dan picked black rock (2/3) which results in... 1/3 overall like you would think it would!  The reason the Monty Hall problem is counterintuitive is the new information revealed by the host.

True, since Probst didn't actually go Monty Hall on her, giving her an opportunity to switch rocks once one choice is eliminated. I just am so puzzled why she thinks picking first would give her better odds. Did she think she could feel the white on the rock?

 

And possibly the reunion in hopes that Rodney, Dan and Will all get booed off the stage.

Just the thought of a reunion with this cast turns my stomach. Probst will ignore Will's behavior unless he makes the excuse that Shirin brought it on herself, or some such bullshit. And he'll ignore the misogynistic asshattery as well. I honestly think he doesn't see it, or really agrees with their attitude. Yuck!

she was wrong to speculate with Jenn and Mike that he was not sharing without searching for the box first.

No one is ever wrong to speculate on this show. Edited April 23, 2015 by Andromeda

[cooksdelight]

True, since Probst didn't actually go Monty Hall on her, giving her an opportunity to switch rocks once one choice is eliminated. I just am so puzzled why she thinks picking first would give her better odds. Did she think she could feel the white on the rock?

She should be embarrassed for saying any of that. She probably thought the white rock would be lighter weight, since black paint weighs more. *rolling eyes*

[peachmangosteen]

Will was wrong to abuse Shirin, but she was wrong to speculate with Jenn and Mike that he was not sharing without searching for the box first. 

 

I have to disagree that it's wrong for Jenn/Mike/Shirin to speculate that someone is lying. IT'S A GAME. However, it is 100% wrong to ever tear into someone the way Will did and it's certainly wrong to do just because someone makes a game move that you happen to not like.

 

As to the second point, the extra vids reveal that Mike/Shirin/Jenn did actually look for the box and found it. Will apparently reburied it. Which, honestly, was just foolish as hell on Will's part and makes no sense to me at all. It also makes me understand Jenn/Mike/Shirin speculating that he was lying even more than I already did.

Edited April 23, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[enlightenedbum]

True, since Probst didn't actually go Monty Hall on her, giving her an opportunity to switch rocks once one choice is eliminated. I just am so puzzled why she thinks picking first would give her better odds. Did she think she could feel the white on the rock?

Maybe?  Or she's just bad at math.

[pennben]

 

If all three had been sitting there... I think Will would have laid into all three of them..

 

You may be right, but I'm not buying it.  He saw that he could take a shot at Shirin alone, and by god, he took it.  No way would he have done that with all three there.

[peachmangosteen]

And when Mike came Will sure as fuck didn't go at him the same way he did Shirin. Coward.

[Nutjob]

And when Mike came Will sure as fuck didn't go at him the same way he did Shirin. Coward.

Exactly. He was sitting by that time, and showed no signs of getting in Mike's face. Honestly, I liked the way Mike handled it--he spoke up to Will, diffused the situation so it wouldn't prolong the bullying, and got Shirin out of there. I'm not Mike's biggest fan, but I do like that he stands up for the women in the game against these jerks.

[Sentient Meat]

You may be right, but I'm not buying it.  He saw that he could take a shot at Shirin alone, and by god, he took it.  No way would he have done that with all three there.

Will went after Vince when he was questioning his health... so I don't think it's a misogynist thing or a bullying thing.

 

Also I don't think people are afraid to confront anyone in Survivor simply because it's all on camera and there's no way you'd get away with hitting someone.  Even if you tried to get revenge after the game, that person would be a prime suspect so pretty much anyone can talk shit and get away with it in this environment.  So no, I don't think Will would be afraid to yell at Mike or Jenn if they were there.

[Miss Scarlet]

 

Also casting gets a major blame since Shirin is obviously unstable due in part at least to her past.

Ummm...I'm pretty sure that Will was the unstable one in this equation.

[peachmangosteen]

Will went after Vince when he was questioning his health... so I don't think it's a misogynist thing or a bullying thing.

Is there an extra vid of Will going to Vince and screaming at him that he has no one who loves him? They didn't show it in the ep.

So no, I don't think Will would be afraid to yell at Mike or Jenn if they were there.

But Mike was there and Will didn't go at him.

[Sentient Meat]

Is there an extra vid of Will going to Vince and screaming at him that he has no one who loves him? They didn't show it in the ep.

But Mike was there and Will didn't go at him.

Who knows, maybe by the time Mike showed up, he had already calmed down somewhat.  I'm just saying it's hard for anyone to be physically intimidated when there cameras and security all over the place ready to pounce if you go too far.  As I've said before, I don't even like Will but it's ironic because he's being cyberbullied all over Twitter and message boards in the same way that people are accusing him of bullying Shirin.

[mojoween]

I know this is veering far off course but I find the auction item of that huge honking steak Rodney won to be incredibly wasteful.

I don't care how "stahving" he was, he couldn't have eaten all of that. And if he did...oy, the gastrointestinal distress must have been horrible. And if he didn't...wasteful.

[blackwing]

I despise Rahdney, but I didn't think the steak looked that big.  I could have eaten it.  Especially if I hadn't really eaten for three weeks except for a few bites of chicken.  I suppose he could have shared some with a friend, but I bet he didn't.

 

What I found excessive was the two gallons of sangria (?) that Jenn chugged down.  If there was any alcohol at all in there, with the exhaustion etc she should have been on the floor.  It appeared to have been meant to be shared but she didn't seem to share.

[needschocolate]

They are all emotionally frayed. Getting love from home is poignant for some.  I do wish they would eliminate that though!   As for Mike ruining the moment.  What?  Go take your own moment and make it what you want it to be.  It appeared that they were requested to not read them until they could do it together for filming reasons.  The normal thing to do would be read it the minute you got back to camp but they all sat there holding them.  

 

I have told my husband that if I am ever on Survivor (zero chance of that happening) I would not read the letter from home.  I would try not to even hold it, if possible.  I am an "out of sight, out of mind" type of person.  Getting a letter from home would remind me of those I love and would probably lower my morale, not raise it.

[LanceM]

After the fan reactions for this season is Jeff finally going to understand that his opinions are s*** and his idea of a "good" season means it's probably one of the worst of aaaaaall tiiiiiiiime???

 

Probably not given the fact that the show has had some if its best ratings in years. Last night they were over the 10 million mark which they have only hit on a few occasions the last few seasons.

 

(we will see what happens next week if there is any fallout from this episode)

Edited April 23, 2015 by LanceM

[Daisy]

I agree that everyone gets teary-eyed for good reason. My issue as a viewer is that it doesn't entertain me in the least. I'd rather have 10 more minutes of game play. At least in last night's episode, some game play happened during the letters from home segment (because of Mike's attempt at trickery and supposed "bad timing" once back at camp), but generally it's a sappy, eye-rolling cryfest. I know I sound heartless, but I just don't care to see it.

 

 

Then I guess I'm heartless, too.  I don't care whether they get letters from home, and while I completely understand how the letters spur honest emotions from them,  I find it boring to watch them get all weepy over them.  The only thing that made it halfway interesting this time was the added WTFness  of them accusing Mike of spoiling the moment for them.  

 

we can sit at the heartless table. I can't stand letters from home/loved one visits at all. It's very rare that it brings anything to the actual game  (and since Fairplay's lie - even sad moments like Todd's sister miscarriage is seen as a lie to get ahead/get extra something). I honestly don't think it's needed in the game

 

I always feel in an episode where we only get 45 minutes to get a story that's already been heavily edited. that takes up a good 10-15 minutes of uselessness

[cooksdelight]

I despise Rahdney, but I didn't think the steak looked that big.  I could have eaten it.  Especially if I hadn't really eaten for three weeks except for a few bites of chicken.  I suppose he could have shared some with a friend, but I bet he didn't.

 

What I found excessive was the two gallons of sangria (?) that Jenn chugged down.  If there was any alcohol at all in there, with the exhaustion etc she should have been on the floor.  It appeared to have been meant to be shared but she didn't seem to share.

One of the rules of the auction was that they couldn't share. Food or money.

[millennium]

I hate everyone. This is the first time I can honestly say I don't care who wins. Every one of these castaways suck and blow.

 

And yet one of these despicable people will walk away one million dollars richer, sucking and blowing all the way to the bank.  :(

[Guest]

Mike, Jenn and Shirin did worse than casually speculate... they undermined Will's game play by telling the others in a group setting that he must have kept the good stuff for himself without any evidence and tried to ruin what was otherwise a generous gesture.  

But that's how you play.  They're not there to help Will win.  And they could only 'ruin the gesture' if somehow the others believed that Will did it selfishly or something.  Which is probably why they hunted down the cooler.  Not to eat more but to undermine Will's game and his alliance's trust in him.

 

Anyone who thinks that steak portion was wasteful better never go on a cruise or near any all-you-can-eat buffets. 

[elizacat]

I found this episode to be the most upsetting episode of Survivor i've ever seen. I have watched every episode from day 1. 

There have been some really horrid people over the years however I have to say Will's attack on Shirin was completely over line.

Until this episode I haven't been too pleased with the idea of Mike winning but have to say after him standing up to Will and getting Shirin out of there I'd now be on board with a Mike win.

This episode.  It was terrible.

 

Khaleesi was legitimately crying during the Shirin campfire attack and tribal.  I wanted to shut it off, and she told me "Just because we shut it off doesn't mean it didn't happen.  Shutting it off is like ignoring that it's happening."  She was right (of course) so we kept watching- in a way, we watched so as not to leave Shirin alone with him.

 

Will, if you're trolling these boards like the attention whore I believe you are, PM me and I'll tell you where I'm at.  We can make your next YouTube viral video together.  I would love to somehow take Khaleesi to this season's reunion and publicly tear Will to shreds for her.

Fabulous post! 

 

I wasn't upset that nobody stood up for Shireen.  Will was a total shit, but every Survivor fan knows that if you get involved in a batlle between players, there's a possibility that you can offend someone enough to become the next Ponderosa inhabitant.  Bystanders to bullying are the same whether they're kids or adults.  Non-involvement means no trouble in the future.  This is a game, and I think they were playing it smart.

IMO this wasn't a battle between players this was a big guy screaming extremely nasty personal insults at another person, to standby and do nothing just makes them weak and complicit.

 

Too bad Shirin works for Yahoo and not Google.  She could have deleted Will, the Youtube sensation, from existence.

Hopefully she has friends in high places at Google.

[Drogo]

Hopefully she has friends in high places at Google.

If she didn't before, I bet she will now.

[Sentient Meat]

But that's how you play.  They're not there to help Will win.  And they could only 'ruin the gesture' if somehow the others believed that Will did it selfishly or something.  Which is probably why they hunted down the cooler.  Not to eat more but to undermine Will's game and his alliance's trust in him.

 

Anyone who thinks that steak portion was wasteful better never go on a cruise or near any all-you-can-eat buffets. 

 

I don't think it was Will's intention... but one could argue yelling like Evel Dick is also a strategy.  Or Tom guilt tripping Ian was a strategy.  Call me crazy but I'd rather have someone yell at me for ten minutes than question my integrity or honesty.  My point is that yelling, guilt tripping, misrepresenting people is all socially unacceptable behavior in real life, but players accept that when they decide to play an extreme game...  I think all are wrong, I just don't know why people are cherry picking one man's poor behavior when the other person's behavior is also wrong.  If Will broke the rules, then he would already be pulled from the game.

[Snaporaz]

... I have no problem with Will being upset, but his reaction was ridiculous, and way out of proportion. He specifically focused on Shirin because she's the weakest member of the tribe, it was disturbing to see a 350 pound man getting up in a young girl's face with such rage and venom, and when he did say something to Mike, he sat down first, too cowardly to step up to a man in the same way.

I don't think he would have treated Jenn the way he treated Shirin, either, because she clearly could kick his ass into next Wednesday. And Mike and Jenn were the ones we actually saw question his precious integrity.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Snaporaz

[Alapaki]

I don't think it was Will's intention... but one could argue yelling like Evel Dick is also a strategy.  Or Tom guilt tripping Ian was a strategy.  Call me crazy but I'd rather have someone yell at me for ten minutes than question my integrity or honesty.  My point is that yelling, guilt tripping, misrepresenting people is all socially unacceptable behavior in real life, but players accept that when they decide to play an extreme game...  I think all are wrong, I just don't know why people are cherry picking one man's poor behavior when the other person's behavior is also wrong.  If Will broke the rules, then he would already be pulled from the game.

Because when someone decides to verbally attack and berate another player based upon that player's difficulties in life outside of the game, if makes the player doing the berating an absolute Sack. of. Shit.

Much as I dislike John Rocker, I thought the Twinnie going after him for his outside-the-game racism was borderline. But at least that was a matter of bringing up someone's bad conduct.

Will was going after Shirin for her bad situation in life. When he was shouting that all she did out there was eat and talk, he was being simply obnoxious. When he started talking about her home life, which he kept up at TC, he crossed a line.

[Sentient Meat]

Because when someone decides to verbally attack and berate another player based upon that player's difficulties in life outside of the game, if makes the player doing the berating an absolute Sack. of. Shit.

Much as I dislike John Rocker, I thought the Twinnie going after him for his outside-the-game racism was borderline. But at least that was a matter of bringing up someone's bad conduct.

Will was going after Shirin for her bad situation in life. When he was shouting that all she did out there was eat and talk, he was being simply obnoxious. When he started talking about her home life, which he kept up at TC, he crossed a line.

What Will said was absolutely wrong... my argument is that what Mike, Jenn and Shirin did was also bullying because they made up something in their heads and tried to turn everyone against Will.  Will's main crime is that he behaved like a child instead of calmly working the scenario to his advantage.

[BigRedCheese]

 

I don't think he would have treated Jenn the way he treated Shirin

 

In Jenn's RHAP interview, she said that Will pulled her aside and said he didn't have a problem with her, he likes her. It seems he just used this as an excuse to berate somebody he already didn't like. I don't think I've ever gone from liking somebody to despising somebody so quickly, I even felt bad for him when Mike was doubting him about the food, but what he did in response was just vile and disgusting.

[Alapaki]

What Will said was absolutely wrong... my argument is that what Mike, Jenn and Shirin did was also bullying because they made up something in their heads and tried to turn everyone against Will.  Will's main crime is that he behaved like a child instead of calmly working the scenario to his advantage.

If that was "bullying"' then "bullying" has no meaning.

There are two fundamental ways to sow discord in an alliance: convince one or more players that they either 1) can't beat; or 2) can't trust another player in the alliance.

Mike and Jenn used Will's gambit with the food prize to try the latter approach. That's calculated gameplay. Just as Will's decision to share the food calculated gameplay.

Not even remotely "bullying"

[elizacat]

I don't think it was Will's intention... but one could argue yelling like Evel Dick is also a strategy.  Or Tom guilt tripping Ian was a strategy.  Call me crazy but I'd rather have someone yell at me for ten minutes than question my integrity or honesty.  My point is that yelling, guilt tripping, misrepresenting people is all socially unacceptable behavior in real life, but players accept that when they decide to play an extreme game...  I think all are wrong, I just don't know why people are cherry picking one man's poor behavior when the other person's behavior is also wrong.  If Will broke the rules, then he would already be pulled from the game.

Will put his integrity on the line when he flipped on his alliance. Which I have no problem with however don't then get all bent out of shape when someone dares to speculate on whether he was telling the whole truth or not. 

His torrent of personal abuse directed at Shirin was just disgusting. Clearly he used things she may have disclosed about her past and threw it back at her.

I actually stupidly thought at the immunity challenge he was going to make a public apology to Shirin but no of course he didn't. So good on her for denying his letter from home, and while it may have been about revenge she didn't attack him personally she made it game related.

The fact that he still didn't get it by tribal and tried to pass it off as telling the truth honestly makes me despise the man.

[Sentient Meat]

If that was "bullying"' then "bullying" has no meaning.

There are two fundamental ways to sow discord in an alliance: convince one or more players that they either 1) can't beat; or 2) can't trust another player in the alliance.

Mike and Jenn used Will's gambit with the food prize to try the latter approach. That's calculated gameplay. Just as Will's decision to share the food calculated gameplay.

Not even remotely "bullying"

Gameplay would be... hey let's make up this narrative about how Will lied about the food so we can undermine his position in the alliance.

 

But this was clearly a personal attack on his character and how the tribe perceived him in real life.  This is why I personally interpreted it as bullying.

[hyukx3]

What Will said was absolutely wrong... my argument is that what Mike, Jenn and Shirin did was also bullying because they made up something in their heads and tried to turn everyone against Will.  Will's main crime is that he behaved like a child instead of calmly working the scenario to his advantage.

 

What? also bullying? tried to turn every1 against will? lol

[ProfCrash]

What Will said was absolutely wrong... my argument is that what Mike, Jenn and Shirin did was also bullying because they made up something in their heads and tried to turn everyone against Will.  Will's main crime is that he behaved like a child instead of calmly working the scenario to his advantage.

No, they tried to undermine Will's play by suggesting he didn't share everything. That is playing the game. Dan and Mike didn't freak out when people questioned their honesty about the bag of beans. They expected it and didn't yell at anyone. They sure as hell didn't call anyone soulless and say no one loved that person.

All Will had to do is bring the cooler and put the food in it. He could have quietly called their bluff and showed how desperate they are. Instead he verbally attacked the weakest member of the outside group.

Lying has always been a part of the game. How players respond to the accusation or when they are caught lying tells us a lot. Tony freaked out when Kass confronted Woo about Tony's many promises. Tony crossed the line then. What will did made Tony's reaction pale in comparison. Reed crossed the line last season. Attack the game play but the personal crap is over the top and not necessary.

[ElleryAnne]

Gameplay would be... hey let's make up this narrative about how Will lied about the food so we can undermine his position in the alliance.

But this was clearly a personal attack on his character and how the tribe perceived him in real life.  This is why I personally interpreted it as bullying.

 

 

But it wasn't about how they perceived him in real life.  It was about how they perceived his actions in the game.  None of them even came close to saying he was dishonest in real life.

[Sentient Meat]

Will put his integrity on the line when he flipped on his alliance. Which I have no problem with however don't then get all bent out of shape when someone dares to speculate on whether he was telling the whole truth or not. 

His torrent of personal abuse directed at Shirin was just disgusting. Clearly he used things she may have disclosed about her past and threw it back at her.

I actually stupidly thought at the immunity challenge he was going to make a public apology to Shirin but no of course he didn't. So good on her for denying his letter from home, and while it may have been about revenge she didn't attack him personally she made it game related.

The fact that he still didn't get it by tribal and tried to pass it off as telling the truth honestly makes me despise the man.

I mentioned in an earlier post that I lost most affection for Will when he flipped over Vince's perception of him as a player.

 

I agree with you that his personal attack on Shirin was wrong on a moral level as well as stupid game play.

 

My main point is not that Will isn't an ass... but that those three behaved like bullies first.

No, they tried to undermine Will's play by suggesting he didn't share everything. That is playing the game. Dan and Mike didn't freak out when people questioned their honesty about the bag of beans. They expected it and didn't yell at anyone. They sure as hell didn't call anyone soulless and say no one loved that person.

All Will had to do is bring the cooler and put the food in it. He could have quietly called their bluff and showed how desperate they are. Instead he verbally attacked the weakest member of the outside group.

Lying has always been a part of the game. How players respond to the accusation or when they are caught lying tells us a lot. Tony freaked out when Kass confronted Woo about Tony's many promises. Tony crossed the line then. What will did made Tony's reaction pale in comparison. Reed crossed the line last season. Attack the game play but the personal crap is over the top and not necessary.

Big difference dealing with that issue week one vs halfway through the competition.  Look how emotionally sensitive Dan is right now compared to earlier in the game.

[elizacat]

I mentioned in an earlier post that I lost most affection for Will when he flipped over Vince's perception of him as a player.

 

I agree with you that his personal attack on Shirin was wrong on a moral level as well as stupid game play.

 

My main point is not that Will isn't an ass... but that those three behaved like bullies first.

I don't see how speculating over whether Will was telling the truth about the food makes them bullies - they didn't even call him out in front of the group. He only knew about it because Tyler tattled.

[Sentient Meat]

I don't see how speculating over whether Will was telling the truth about the food makes them bullies - they didn't even call him out in front of the group. He only knew about it because Tyler tattled.

If a group of popular kids are sitting at a lunch table talking shit about an unpopular kid... it doesn't mean it isn't bullying just because the target doesn't know what they are saying.  It just means it hasn't been exposed yet.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Sentient Meat

[RedheadZombie]

I don't think anyone's a lock for anyone.  While Jenn was consoling Shirin in video, the audio was her saying how much she hated everyone INCLUDING Shirin.   

 

If you're talking about the end of the episode, she said Sierra, not Shirin. 

 

I have never liked Will, he struck me from the beginning as not being very bright. For him to sit there in tribal and first say "I didn't make it personal" and then rebut with "that's true" to every personally insulting thing he said to Shirin seems to suggest he is confusing "personal" with "slander." He probably figures since everyone dislikes Shirin what he did was perfectly fine and he'll be applauded for it. For a "You Tube personality" he has seriously miscalculated audience reaction.

 

Will reminds me of last season's "youtube sensation" on Big Brother - Frankie Grande.  Both have revealed themselves to be absolute assholes.  They seem to have no idea that perceived likability is essential to their job.

 

 Mike does kind of skulk around in the trees and the shadows, and good for him! If these idiots are too dumb to try and hide their comings and goings better, and mute their conversations, so be it. 

 

Kind of reminds me of Sandra crawling around in the bushes and spying.  It worked for her.

[elizacat]

If a group of popular kids are sitting at a lunch table talking shit about an unpopular kid... it doesn't mean it isn't bullying just because the target doesn't know what they are saying.  It just means it hasn't been exposed yet.

I think you and I have a very different definition of bullying.

The scenario you present above is very different.

IMO speculating amongst yourselves that someone may not be completely honest in the game of Survivor is hardly bullying. 

[ElleryAnne]

If a group of popular kids are sitting at a lunch table talking shit about an unpopular kid... it doesn't mean it isn't bullying just because the target doesn't know what they are saying.  It just means it hasn't been exposed yet.

 

 

But Mike, Jenn and Shirin aren't a group of popular kids picking on an unpopular kid.  Will is in the majority alliance and is safe, while M/J/S are the unpopular ones.  They talked strategy (that strategy being whether or not Will was honest), and Tyler tattled on them, and Will - who was safe and in the popular kids' group - tore into the smallest, most unpopular member of the outsiders.  

[ProfCrash]

Big difference dealing with that issue week one vs halfway through the competition.  Look how emotionally sensitive Dan is right now compared to earlier in the game.

Mike lost it three days later over the concept of work ethic. He said some pretty dumb stuff. He managed to not call anyone soulless. Dan has lost it and been a bully on three different occassions that we have seen. Carolyn happily rubbed salt in the wound when she talked to Shirin after voting out Max. Will's outburst and his behavior at tribal are a reflection of some character flaws he needs to work on.

Even Dan had apologized on twitter by this time. Will hasn't. Will over reacted badly to game play. He didn't apologize. He hasn't apologized. People are reacting strongly to his comments. How he responds to the aftermath will say a lot about him. Hopefully he grows from this.

[rlangmit]

Gameplay would be... hey let's make up this narrative about how Will lied about the food so we can undermine his position in the alliance.

 

But this was clearly a personal attack on his character and how the tribe perceived him in real life.  This is why I personally interpreted it as bullying.

 

Isn't that first thing exactly what happened?  I don't see how it was "clearly" an attack on Will's real life character.

[Daisy]

One of the rules of the auction was that they couldn't share. Food or money.

Not this time. Jeff never said they couldn't share money. I watched that particular part twice. He said "No sharing of items"   Generally, Jeff will go

 

You can not share money

you can not share items

 

it threw me. 

[riley702]

I was so distracted by the women's eyebrows, particularly Sierra's.  What's going on there?  Why do the women have over-manicured eyebrows while the guys have full-on neck beards?  

 

Sierra would look better if she plucked her naturally light brows, as I think she has tattooed brows. I seem to remember in a previous season - Vanuatu? - the women sitting around and using their fingernails to pluck each others brows.

 

How funny would it have been if Jenn had won the extra vote and saved it for when she was on jury?

Can you use an advantage after you've been voted out? I would assume it would be like getting voted out with an idol in your pocket. You can't stand up from the jury and hand off an idol; your game-playing part of the season is over.

[Sentient Meat]

I think you and I have a very different definition of bullying.

The scenario you present above is very different.

IMO speculating amongst yourselves that someone may not be completely honest in the game of Survivor is hardly bullying.

 

But Mike, Jenn and Shirin aren't a group of popular kids picking on an unpopular kid.  Will is in the majority alliance and is safe, while M/J/S are the unpopular ones.  They talked strategy (that strategy being whether or not Will was honest), and Tyler tattled on them, and Will - who was safe and in the popular kids' group - tore into the smallest, most unpopular member of the outsiders.  

 

Mike lost it three days later over the concept of work ethic. He said some pretty dumb stuff. He managed to not call anyone soulless. Dan has lost it and been a bully on three different occassions that we have seen. Carolyn happily rubbed salt in the wound when she talked to Shirin after voting out Max. Will's outburst and his behavior at tribal are a reflection of some character flaws he needs to work on.

Even Dan had apologized on twitter by this time. Will hasn't. Will over reacted badly to game play. He didn't apologize. He hasn't apologized. People are reacting strongly to his comments. How he responds to the aftermath will say a lot about him. Hopefully he grows from this.

 

 

It's interesting how a cluster of three people are not considered bullies... but one man next to a highly educated woman is.  These three weren't targeting the majority alliance, they were just picking on Will who happens to be the weakest in his alliance in the same way that Shirin is the weakest in hers.  There is absolutely no chance of physical violence because of security so if anyone has an advantage it is the highly educated person who can manipulate and argue much better than the youtube celebrity.  And by the looks of things Shirin won because everyone hates Will and he may have destroyed his livelihood.

 

Hopefully Will will learn from this, and be able to recover from the consequences of his behavior.  But I'm still struggling to see how a scenario where real physical danger is neutralized how the more intelligent person playing against a less educated person is the weaker person in this situation.

[hyukx3]

did those 3 talk shit to will? no, so how did they bully him?

[Sentient Meat]

did those 3 talk shit to will? no, so how did they bully him?

If three of your co-workers talk untrue shit about you to the other co-workers... which could ultimately result in your being terminated.  Would you consider that bullying or fair play?

[hyukx3]

can you win a million dollars if u spread lies about your coworker?

[Drogo]

If three of your co-workers talk untrue shit about you to the other co-workers... which could ultimately result in your being terminated. Would you consider that bullying or fair play?

It depends if our business cards say "Outwit Outplay Outlast" or not.